blown tweeter grrrr
Jamie
Now, i do like to push them loud every so often, but not further than i
believe they can handle or than is civilised. I do however like to
listen to/monitor my own noise music quite often ----- does anyone know
if very distorted music is gonna blow tweeters easier?
I dunno if i can get repair covered on warranty or not, and i don;t
want to keep fizzling my cones every 3 months and coughin up for repair.
Anyone got useful infomation regarding this subject?
I mean surely speakers are *tested* with white and pink noise?
I;'ve heard clipping is bad for speakers (ie an amplifier being pushed
to hard) --- does this include the sourse material itself - or is it
just clipping at a certain sound level?
What do i have to do to, by a PA system or something? ;-)
They are really nice speakers <sniff>
Jamie
James Whitehead
<badm...@ix.netcom.com> writes
could take out a TANOY no-problem ! The best trick however was to
get a loud sine wave going and then turn the wave shape to triangle -
this would take out your ear drums!
--
James Whitehead
jqu...@monmouth.com
extremely high-pitched feedback. Very stupid of me, should have known better.
> >Now, i do like to push them loud every so often, but not further than i
> >believe they can handle or than is civilised. I do however like to
> >listen to/monitor my own noise music quite often ----- does anyone know
> >if very distorted music is gonna blow tweeters easier?
Oh yeah. The more "saturated" the sound - very high pitch, very high gain, or,
conversely, very low, loud bass - will tax any speaker and possibly cause it to blow
out. It's a fine line. A lot of guitarists blow speakers at high volumes for any number
of reasons - short feedback squall, sudden ground hum rumble, excess of wankery,
merciful divine intervention, etc.
> >I dunno if i can get repair covered on warranty or not, and i don;t
> >want to keep fizzling my cones every 3 months and coughin up for repair.
Usually if you blow a speaker, it's looked upon as something you did as your fault. It
sucks. It's worth a try though; maybe if you acted like you have no idea how it
happened...
> >Anyone got useful infomation regarding this subject?
> >I mean surely speakers are *tested* with white and pink noise?
Well, not really.
> >I;'ve heard clipping is bad for speakers (ie an amplifier being pushed
> >to hard) --- does this include the sourse material itself - or is it
> >just clipping at a certain sound level?
Clipping is always bad. All that power (sound, energy, etc.) has to go somewhere.
You can record something into a four track, let's say, and cause it to clip all over the
fucking place (just jack the fader all the way up). No big deal. But play that recorded
track back on a stereo loud enough, and you will probably blow the speaker.
> >What do i have to do to, by a PA system or something? ;-)
Just gotta be careful. A lot of noise shit is simply mastered too high for normal, or
even pretty good speakers to handle at high volumes. Any Masonna disc played at
above 8 (or a corresponding level) will at least _begin_ to fuck up your shit,
regardless of what you've got.
> >They are really nice speakers <sniff>
I feel your pain.
> Any decent Synth can blow speakers, the VCS3 was wonderful - it
> could take out a TANOY no-problem ! The best trick however was to
> get a loud sine wave going and then turn the wave shape to triangle -
> this would take out your ear drums!
Oh, hell yeah. Even at a low volume, that sounds just rattles your little ear bones.
So, anyone interested in buying a used Marshall 4x10 angled cab with two blown
Celestions? C'mon, I'm saving up for my new Mesa/Boogie rig.... ;)
Jamie
jqu...@monmouth.com wrote:
> > > I just blown the tweeter on one of my speakers. (an inifinty RS 2) .
> I just blew two of the speakers in my Marshall 4x10 cab while cranking out some
> extremely high-pitched feedback. Very stupid of me, should have known better.
>
> > >Now, i do like to push them loud every so often, but not further than i
> > >believe they can handle or than is civilised. I do however like to
> > >listen to/monitor my own noise music quite often ----- does anyone know
> > >if very distorted music is gonna blow tweeters easier?
> Oh yeah. The more "saturated" the sound - very high pitch, very high gain, or,
> conversely, very low, loud bass - will tax any speaker and possibly cause it to blow
> out. It's a fine line. A lot of guitarists blow speakers at high volumes for any number
> of reasons - short feedback squall, sudden ground hum rumble, excess of wankery,
> merciful divine intervention, etc.
>
though if you heavy really heavy duty speakers they are gonna take more presumably.But to
get speakers at an unstressed volume behaving like a 4x12 at stressed volume means a lot
more cabs i guess.
> > >I dunno if i can get repair covered on warranty or not, and i don;t
> > >want to keep fizzling my cones every 3 months and coughin up for repair.
> Usually if you blow a speaker, it's looked upon as something you did as your fault. It
> sucks. It's worth a try though; maybe if you acted like you have no idea how it
> happened...
>
Yeah, "i was just listenting to simply red whilst putting the kids to bed whilst grandma was
in bed with an ear infection and the speaker suddenly started sounding really bad"
I'm sure some speakers leave the factory with dodgy tweets....
> > >Anyone got useful infomation regarding this subject?
> > >I mean surely speakers are *tested* with white and pink noise?
> Well, not really.
>
> Clipping is always bad. All that power (sound, energy, etc.) has to go somewhere.
> You can record something into a four track, let's say, and cause it to clip all over the
> fucking place (just jack the fader all the way up). No big deal. But play that recorded
> track back on a stereo loud enough, and you will probably blow the speaker.
>
> > >What do i have to do to, by a PA system or something? ;-)
> Just gotta be careful. A lot of noise shit is simply mastered too high for normal, or
> even pretty good speakers to handle at high volumes. Any Masonna disc played at
> above 8 (or a corresponding level) will at least _begin_ to fuck up your shit,
> regardless of what you've got.
>
So those cheesy po-faced warnings on Relapses "noise treaty" really *do* have some truth to
them ;-)
> > >They are really nice speakers <sniff>
> I feel your pain.
>
> > Any decent Synth can blow speakers, the VCS3 was wonderful - it
> > could take out a TANOY no-problem ! The best trick however was to
> > get a loud sine wave going and then turn the wave shape to triangle -
> > this would take out your ear drums!
> Oh, hell yeah. Even at a low volume, that sounds just rattles your little ear bones.
>
Yes, I've heard of engineers in clubs etc running in fear for their faders as a muso brings
out certain models of synth, such as the EMS ones.
> So, anyone interested in buying a used Marshall 4x10 angled cab with two blown
> Celestions? C'mon, I'm saving up for my new Mesa/Boogie rig.... ;)
ON the subject of guitars and such wankery, anyone recommend a good preamp with gain and EQ
etc? I don;t want a good awful tube thingy, just something good for DI'ing or hooking up to
a PA but will work good with bass as well, and everything else!
What are Carvin stuff like? Got their catalogue and they are very cheap.
Jamie
dani...@mailexcite.com
jqu...@monmouth.com wrote:
> Just gotta be careful. A lot of noise shit is simply mastered too high for normal, or
> even pretty good speakers to handle at high volumes. Any Masonna disc played at
> above 8 (or a corresponding level) will at least _begin_ to fuck up your shit,
> regardless of what you've got.
>
Are speaker volumes universal, as in does 8 on one speaker sound the same
volume as 8 on another?
Then again, my speakers are in my bedroom, which is sort of a smaller room
then, say, a living room. I guess that has a lot to do with it, too. Any
CD playing that is even slightly mastered at a higher volume sounds way
louder, and I'm not just sensitive to high volumes or anything like that.
If I turned my volume up to 8, the high frequencies would break my windows
and I would be swept away in a whirlwind of soundwaves!
I'm such a wuss....:)
danny
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
jqu...@monmouth.com
>anyone recommend a good preamp with gain and EQ
> etc? I don;t want a good awful tube thingy, just something good for DI'ing or >hooking up to
> a PA but will work good with bass as well, and everything else!
> What are Carvin stuff like? Got their catalogue and they are very cheap.
What's your budget? If you're interested in DI recording guitars and basses, you
can't go wrong with a SansAmp (which are basically speaker emulators used for DI
recording). Beyond that, lots of people makes good DI boxes. If you want an actual
preamp, that's more money, and you don't really need to spend it to just use it to DI
record. I personally like Marshall's 9200 power amp, but that's up there in price.
Crown power/pre-amps are also godly. As far as Carvin goes, you're better off with
a SanAmp (which start at about $150, give or take). The only Carvin stuff I like are
their bass amps.
DZ-015
--
-----
Experimental Media Research Laboratory, Northern California
For more Information, http://emrl.com or email IN...@EMRL.COM.
Jamie
jqu...@monmouth.com wrote:
> > ON the subject of guitars and such wankery,
> I can't be the only person on here who actually _plays_ guitar...
>
> >anyone recommend a good preamp with gain and EQ
> > etc? I don;t want a good awful tube thingy, just something good for DI'ing or >hooking up to
> > a PA but will work good with bass as well, and everything else!
> > What are Carvin stuff like? Got their catalogue and they are very cheap.
> What's your budget? If you're interested in DI recording guitars and basses, youcan't go wrong
> with a SansAmp (which are basically speaker emulators used for DI
> recording). Beyond that, lots of people makes good DI boxes. If you want an actual
> preamp, that's more money, and you don't really need to spend it to just use it to DI
> record. I personally like Marshall's 9200 power amp, but that's up there in price.
> Crown power/pre-amps are also godly. As far as Carvin goes, you're better off with
> a SanAmp (which start at about $150, give or take). The only Carvin stuff I like are
> their bass amps.
I want a preamp thingy which corrects the impedance level to the 'proper' one, and provides
tone and crunch controls. Now, having moved and sold stuff i'm low on gear at the moment, and
havn;t even got a proper mixer, so I would initalled di straight into my computer or something. I
want to be able to get 'proper' high quality guitar and bass sounds, as well
as nasty completely wasted noise guitar/experimental sounds (before i used to route the guitar
signal through 3 mixer channels with hard EQ and feeding signals back into the channel through the
effects send plus several fuzz pedals. Can get a guitar sounding almost like a fuzzed out synth
that way!).
At a later date I could by a power amp and speakers to amplify guitar/bass if needed, as well as
use same setup for any other instruments I may aquire - buying a guitar combo is just too
limiting, and it isn;t stereo, and i don;t like their sounds really - I want the preamp stuff to
sort the sound out then power amp just makes it louder (includung all high frq's, classic 'guitar
sound' just seem to be having bugger all top end and a speaker designed 30 years ago.)
So speaker emulation would be useful only sometimes. The only preamps i remeber seeing whihc were
more than just DI boxes had tubes in and are expensive as a result, i just want something with
tranisistor which isn;t too expensive, but has a lot of EQ and stuff.
Tho of course i as use my computer a hell of a lot for processing stuff it can all be done that
way I guess....
So I might pay $250-300 for such a thing. And it should be 'abuse proof'! ;-)
If i got the setup described as above, i could use the poweramp/PA speakers to play music as well
(obviously,with everything going through a small desktop mixer), without worrying so much about
blowing tweakers in sensitive HIFI speakers. Just have to watch I don;t piss off the neighbours.
James Whitehead
k...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>I want a preamp thingy
line level out and is stereo - also has the effects and a tuner! UK price
170.00 gbp so should be way under 100 us $?
--
James Whitehead
Jamie
jqu...@monmouth.com
> line level out and is stereo - also has the effects and a tuner! UK price
> 170.00 gbp so should be way under 100 us $?
for one simple reason: most noiseheads like to be able to twiddle knobs and tweak
things into oblivion. ZOOM stuff, for the most part, only lets you fiddle with a very
limited number of sounds/settings, and most of said sounds are of sub-par quality.
James Whitehead
point taken if said products cant be tweaked to oblivion-
I've come across some very 'noisy' effects on the
effects board inside a VS880 - which is digital
and knobless- one which allows removal of the
number of bits being processed- some by (my mistake)
sending a signal to both sides of stereo effects-
which then do not require any external sound input-
the effect kind of feeds back through itself-
or is there a general anti digital attitude in noise?
If so how far does this extend- mastering to DAT
or to the production of CDs? Iquite like the idea
of tape myself- i'm looking for a old reel to reel,
but suspectthat even getting a vinyl made of this
it might pass through some digital conversion on route.
--
James Whitehead
Jamie
James Whitehead wrote:
having reseached for a few hours, the ZOOM 503 amp simulator seems to be a very cheap
way of getting a guitar or bass DI'd into a mixer or computer or whatever with
various crunch, clean and cabinet sounds, so i might go for one of these. Knobs and
stuff elsewhere in the chain can provided analoge tweakeries, not least door hunges
stuck to pickups etc etc. But i also want semi 'tradidional' sounds. An analogie
straight DI box is gonna cost nearly as much as the 100dollar zoom box.
I descided against a bigger multieffects thing, as these do often seem to have a lot
of weaknesses, unless you spend 800 dollars, though i',m sure you can get them to
produce some nasty good sounds. Santana and Slash prests just are very offputting.
I have heard that some of thse boxes put out a load of RF junk and can make computer
recording a nightmare.
I love the power of digital editing and processing. Main problem is inputting and
outputting audio. Events 'Gina' soundcard looks someway to provided decent inout
section.
I usually rip off music from commerical CD's and butcher it into noisemontage, along
with 'self produced' sound.
Use anything to get the sounds or the music you want.
My latest long term challenge is to use my guitar/bass/programming/sound processing
skills to try and create a riff driven music, which has the timbral dyamics of my
noise montages - but would be transferable to a live situation (bass, drums, guitar,
footpedal triggered sampler ----- very traditianal setup).
I'll probably fail miserably, for my own good.
oh fuck it, I'll just form a death metal band.....
jqu...@monmouth.com
little pre-planning, but the things you can do with even the cheapest digital
multi-effects processor are sick as hell.
> > If so how far does this extend- mastering to DAT
> > or to the production of CDs? Iquite like the idea
> > of tape myself- i'm looking for a old reel to reel,
> > but suspectthat even getting a vinyl made of this
> > it might pass through some digital conversion on route.
I like everything, personally, but when it comes to recording, give me
state-of-the-art. I'll use the old analogue shit to make the noise - I'll just record it
very well. Music pressed to vinyl is cheap and sometimes groovy, but it loses too
much.
> having reseached for a few hours, the ZOOM 503 amp simulator seems to be a >very cheap
> way of getting a guitar or bass DI'd into a mixer or computer or whatever with
> various crunch, clean and cabinet sounds, so i might go for one of these.
So what if it's cheap? It sounds like ass, that's why it's inexpensive.
> Knobs and
> stuff elsewhere in the chain can provided analoge tweakeries, not least door >hunges
> stuck to pickups etc etc. But i also want semi 'tradidional' sounds. An analogie
> straight DI box is gonna cost nearly as much as the 100dollar zoom box.
I'm missing something here. Why insist on an analogue DI box? You're gonna get a
better sound with a digital one. Not only that, but they're actually far more versatile
than you give them credit for.
> I descided against a bigger multieffects thing, as these do often seem to have a lot
> of weaknesses, unless you spend 800 dollars, though i',m sure you can get them to
> produce some nasty good sounds. Santana and Slash prests just are very >offputting.
Just ignore that shit and work on building your own presets. I mean, yeah, if you
drop two grand you can buy Lexicon and Eventide processors that let you make
customized "virtual floorboards," but I've done some pretty damn good noise work
with mid-range Digitech processors. All of those settings, like pitch-shifting and
step-flange, can be perverted to such a degree that you can hit a note and instantly
transform it into a rolling wall of hellish noise that is feeding back in modulating keys.
> Use anything to get the sounds or the music you want.
That's the only law.
> My latest long term challenge is to use my guitar/bass/programming/sound >processing
> skills to try and create a riff driven music, which has the timbral dyamics of my
> noise montages - but would be transferable to a live situation (bass, drums, guitar,
> footpedal triggered sampler ----- very traditianal setup).
> I'll probably fail miserably, for my own good.
It can work. I was in a band like that, and we kind of pulled it off, but the equipment
was a nightmare. I personally prefer a more "traditional" setup, even for noise. I
don't like relying on DAT machines, samplers, etc. If I have to do that, or if you're
gonna try to incorporpate such elements, the best thing you can do is have a guy
that takes care of that. In my old band, there were only three members - a
voclaist/keyboardist, another keyboardist, and myself on guitar and bass. But we had
assloads of triggered samples, drums on DAT, triggered loops, etc., and pulling it off
live with three people was hell. Sometimes technology is cool and all, but it's just so
much easier when it's four guys with real instruments.
> oh fuck it, I'll just form a death metal band.....
Will someone besides me have the balls to admit that they like death metal? Jeez.
NP: Incantation "Diabolical Conquest"
James Whitehead
<badm...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>My latest long term challenge is to use my guitar/bass/programming/sound
>processing
>skills to try and create a riff driven music, which has the timbral dyamics of my
>noise montages - but would be transferable to a live situation (bass, drums,
>guitar,
>footpedal triggered sampler ----- very traditianal setup).
>I'll probably fail miserably, for my own good.
>
getting midi out with breath control, i know they did do a plastic midi
guitar some years back - with plastic strings- if you could get one of
these you could use it to trigger your samples- when new they were
around 100 GBP. I presume they would send note and velocity info
which would be ideal for playing live.
>
>
>
>
>
--
James Whitehead
Jamie
jqu> having reseached for a few hours, the ZOOM 503 amp simulator seems to be a >very cheap
> > way of getting a guitar or bass DI'd into a mixer or computer or whatever with
> > various crunch, clean and cabinet sounds, so i might go for one of these.
> So what if it's cheap? It sounds like ass, that's why it's inexpensive.
>
have you heard one? well, it will be plastic and fragile probably, but....
> > Knobs and
> > stuff elsewhere in the chain can provided analoge tweakeries, not least door >hunges
> > stuck to pickups etc etc. But i also want semi 'tradidional' sounds. An analogie
> > straight DI box is gonna cost nearly as much as the 100dollar zoom box.
> I'm missing something here. Why insist on an analogue DI box? You're gonna get a
> better sound with a digital one. Not only that, but they're actually far more versatile
> than you give them credit for.
>
ummmm......i think I *was* arguing in favour of a digital preamp, rather than an analogue one
which doesn;t do that much.The main problems with digital low end ones seem to be :
pauses between patch changes
crappy sounds sometimes
bad operating systems
fragile construction
noisey (!)
I guess i should try one out, but music shops annoy me and often only living with equipment
lets you get to know it well.
But any recomendations or 'stay aways' for preamps/multieffects welcome
> Just ignore that shit and work on building your own presets. I mean, yeah, if you
> drop two grand you can buy Lexicon and Eventide processors that let you make
> customized "virtual floorboards," but I've done some pretty damn good noise work
> with mid-range Digitech processors. All of those settings, like pitch-shifting and
> step-flange, can be perverted to such a degree that you can hit a note and instantly
> transform it into a rolling wall of hellish noise that is feeding back in modulating keys.
>
sounds kinda fun
>
gotta go.....when i eventually do get a preamp thing, i'll report back.
jamie
>
>
> >
Jamie
jq
> > produce some nasty good sounds. Santana and Slash prests just are very >offputting.
> Just ignore that shit and work on building your own presets.
well, of course!
Its just a lot of reviews of products etc. concentrate on what 'should be done' with a guitar,
or from a certain perspective, and you have to read between the lines a bit.
I know pretty clearly what i want my equipment to do, its a matter of finding the right stuff
at the right price to do it, whichout getting tripped up by 'hidden' problems or impeded by
excessive cost.
Theres some web site with loads of off-the-net user comments on equipment which is quite good,
but again problem remains they will be wanting different performance than myself.
> > Use anything to get the sounds or the music you want.
> That's the only law.
>
I can hear it in my head, but i think maybe failure always occurs in the translation (of
course - like a vivid dream, you can only fail to represent it)You can;t produce a very good
facsimile of a mental state or vision.
However, failure is exciting as the music takes on its own 'life' and you hear things you;ve
never heard before in that exact form. Plenty of room for banality though!
Often songs sound better after they just become a memory.
> It can work. I was in a band like that, and we kind of pulled it off, but the equipment
> was a nightmare. I personally prefer a more "traditional" setup, even for noise. I
> don't like relying on DAT machines, samplers, etc. If I have to do that, or if you're
> gonna try to incorporpate such elements, the best thing you can do is have a guy
> that takes care of that. In my old band, there were only three members - a
> voclaist/keyboardist, another keyboardist, and myself on guitar and bass. But we had
> assloads of triggered samples, drums on DAT, triggered loops, etc., and pulling it off
> live with three people was hell. Sometimes technology is cool and all, but it's just so
> much easier when it's four guys with real instruments.
>
I could see how that it a problem.
I do kinda 'miss' the playing with 'real instruments' thang. Digital noise montage is fun,
buts its still being stuck in front of a computer. I earn money in front of a computer, I
email my friends via the damn computer!
My few band experiences have not been positive. In a shy introverted way I;m a meglomaniac and
in my grouchy view most musicians can;t cut it (says me mr.sloppy). But i think it may be
worthwhile to slowly compose music that could be played by a guitaris/drummer/bassist then
recruit using demo CD's/tapes. No more standing in the rehearsal room 'what shall we do' 'i
want this band to be different'. Learn the music, play it, refine the arrangements and
dynamics, compostotion is taken care of.
> > oh fuck it, I'll just form a death metal band.....
> Will someone besides me have the balls to admit that they like death metal? Jeez.
>
What are the best albums about at the moment?
The core of grind/death/black I think is really powerful ----- heavy distorted, hypnotic power
riffing and drums with unintilligable vocals.
Match this with a sensitivity to timbre and the use of noise and something really strong can
or is being created.
Much metal bands just suck though, they havn;t got a clue.
I like napalm death. I like a track by Phobia i heard once. Older godlflesh is good.
okay ND and godflesh arn;t death but they are still heavy metal.
If I want really distorted, heavy, intoxicating riffs, no solos and just a very spot vision of
the ultimate metal, who should i check out on CD? (i got no tape player!)
> NP: Incantation "Diabolical Conquest"
^^^^
them?
Jamie
James Whitehead wrote:
> In article <35C0B73A...@ix.netcom.com>, Jamie
> <badm...@ix.netcom.com> writes
> >My latest long term challenge is to use my guitar/bass/programming/sound
> >processing
> >skills to try and create a riff driven music, which has the timbral dyamics of my
> >noise montages - but would be transferable to a live situation (bass, drums,
> >guitar,
> >footpedal triggered sampler ----- very traditianal setup).
> >I'll probably fail miserably, for my own good.
> >
> I have a casio digital horn (no joke!) which is a very cheap way of
> getting midi out with breath control, i know they did do a plastic midi
> guitar some years back - with plastic strings- if you could get one of
> these you could use it to trigger your samples- when new they were
> around 100 GBP. I presume they would send note and velocity info
> which would be ideal for playing live.
>
Though you can;t play guitar as well!I was thinking that you could load up
textures/sound slabs/sections into a sampler (one with say 16meg and a zip drive) then
use a pedal board just to trigger them off at the right time, no melodies as such.
If say you have a drummer and bassist - they lay down the grind/death/power zeuhl
structures whilst presamples slabs of noise guitar popped off at the right time by
stepping on a pedal. Or whatever. SAmpler crashes, midi cable fizzles, forget what
sample is on what pedal, curtupt zip disk, The possibilities are endless!
> >oh fuck it, I'll just form a death metal band.....
> >
> then you have the problem of giving it a suitable name! :-)
> >
>
Hobnoggoth
> --
> James Whitehead
Jamie
jqu...@monmouth.com
> course - like a vivid dream, you can only fail to represent it)You can;t produce a >very good
I don't agree. My whole mad, insane quest as an artist and musician is to manifest
what's inside my head, whether it be with a guitar or words. The best art exists as
a kind of conduit into an artist's mind. My goal with my music has always been to
create an emotional reaction or state in the listener - one of extremely powerful and
disturbing emotions. My friend once asked about my project frail, "What is the point
of all this weird stuff, anyway?"
"I want my music to drive people insane," I responded.
> I do kinda 'miss' the playing with 'real instruments' thang. Digital noise montage is >fun,
> buts its still being stuck in front of a computer. I earn money in front of a >computer, I
> email my friends via the damn computer!
Everything I've done until recently has involved either my guitar or bass, a four track,
or my voice and a mic. Even though a lot of what i do is noise, I do it with
"traditional" methods. Since the other half of me plays "normal" music, especially
grindcore and jazz, all of my parts kinda meet somewhere weird. I don't think I
would feel satisfied by composing solely with a computer. I would miss the feeling of
waves of feedback shaking my eardrums, or the total high that results when you find
yourself caught in a white-noise wall improv.
> My few band experiences have not been positive.
Bands are hard things to make work. The only person that hasn't driven me nuts in a
band situation is my brother.
> In a shy introverted way I;m a meglomaniac and
> in my grouchy view most musicians can;t cut it (says me mr.sloppy).
Hmm. I could see how such an attitude would grate on others....
>But i think it may be
> worthwhile to slowly compose music that could be played by a >guitaris/drummer/bassist then
> recruit using demo CD's/tapes. No more standing in the rehearsal room 'what shall >we do' 'i
> want this band to be different'. Learn the music, play it, refine the arrangements >and
> dynamics, compostotion is taken care of.
That's the ideal, but it almost never happens like that. The trick is to learn how to
create with other people while somehow not compromising (to much) your artistic
vision. If you get it to work, the results are fantastic. You know what I mean - that
magic moment when you're playing with someone and then you both lock in to each
other. What I've always longed for are a drummer and a bassist who are both
obsessed with music, and are not afraid to lose themselves in it with me. I need
musicians who aren't afraid to take a moment and go with it.
> What are the best albums about at the moment?
Damn, too many to name. Depends what you like...
> The core of grind/death/black I think is really powerful ----- heavy distorted, >hypnotic power
> riffing and drums with unintilligable vocals.
> Match this with a sensitivity to timbre and the use of noise and something really >strong can
> or is being created.
> Much metal bands just suck though, they havn;t got a clue.
True. I've always just been addicted to the energy being used. And some bands do
have such a clue that it's scary. But I really hate metalheads, hate metal shows, and
actually hate many of the actual members of the bands that I like (which is ironic,
since I have a metal show and review assloads of shows for my college paper). Like
Incantation. They play such powerful music, and their second album's lyrics were
just poetry - and yet the guys are dumb metal idiots. I hate that shit. Long ago I
decided to take what I want and need out of music, and to hell with what people
think of it.
> I like napalm death. I like a track by Phobia i heard once. Older godlflesh is good.
> okay ND and godflesh arn;t death but they are still heavy metal.
Phoiba is quite awesome. Their CD "Return to Desolation," which features some
insane drumming from Fear Factory's Raymond Herrara, is quite good. Godflesh is
my second favorite band, bowing only to the almighty Tool. And Napalm Death,
currently, in an amazing band. Pick up the new one, "Inside the Torn Apart." The
first one, of course, is a classic ("Scum").
> If I want really distorted, heavy, intoxicating riffs, no solos and just a very spot >vision of
> the ultimate metal, who should i check out on CD? (i got no tape player!)
What do you consider "the ultimate metal?" I'm not sure what that means... some of
my favorite albums are Carcass' "Heartwork," Human Remains "Using Sickness as a
Hero," "Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated".... I could go on forever. Be more
specific, I can recommend better shit. Bands like Kiss it Goodbye, Bloodlet and
Coalesce are ungodly heavy. System of a Down, Immolation and Deadguy all have
some great riffs... so do Blood Duster... depends on what speed you like, really.
> > NP: Incantation "Diabolical Conquest"
>
> ^^^^
> them?
Incantation originally came from around me in NJ. I always loved McEntee's style of
playing. Actually, "Mortal Throne of Nazarene" could qualify as a classic noise/grind
album...
Sorry if this is off topic a wee bit... I wish I knew what sleep was like!
jqu...@monmouth.com
> > >
> > then you have the problem of giving it a suitable name! :-)
> Hobnoggoth
Most metal bands are surprisingly sensitive about their stupid names. I once made
fun of this band called Grunt on my show. Five minutes later, I got a call from the
drummer, and he was very pissed: "What's wrong with our name? Why do you have
to make fun of it?" Wah wah waah. I once issued a challenge to all the dumb local
death metal bands in south Jersey/Philly to form a new, completely insane group.
You know, heavy as hell, fast, tight, etc. - BUT, they had to name their band Peaceful
Lovely Tulips, and name their first album "Petting the Pretty Fluffy Bunnies." No one
took me up on it. Macho pussies.
Jamie
jqu...@monmouth.com wrote:
> > I can hear it in my head, but i think maybe failure always occurs in the translation >(of
> > course - like a vivid dream, you can only fail to represent it)You can;t produce a >very good
> > facsimile of a mental state or vision.
> I don't agree. My whole mad, insane quest as an artist and musician is to manifest
> what's inside my head, whether it be with a guitar or words. The best art exists as
> a kind of conduit into an artist's mind. My goal with my music has always been to
> create an emotional reaction or state in the listener - one of extremely powerful and
> disturbing emotions. My friend once asked about my project frail, "What is the point
> of all this weird stuff, anyway?"
> "I want my music to drive people insane," I responded.
>
Its usually people which drive people insane!
But yes, I certainl;y want my music to have a lot of emotion, albiet of a peculiar nature.
I do think this 'view into the artist' head thing just doesn;t work that much. Lets agree to disagree
there, just my opinion. Certain insights can be gained I'm sure, wether psychoanalytical neurotic
ones, or just whatever. Art reflects/presents *something*.
A big subject and easy to get bogged down. I can;t think of any cutting observations at the
moment....
> > I do kinda 'miss' the playing with 'real instruments' thang. Digital noise montage is >fun,
> > buts its still being stuck in front of a computer. I earn money in front of a >computer, I
> > email my friends via the damn computer!
> Everything I've done until recently has involved either my guitar or bass, a four track,
> or my voice and a mic. Even though a lot of what i do is noise, I do it with
> "traditional" methods. Since the other half of me plays "normal" music, especially
> grindcore and jazz, all of my parts kinda meet somewhere weird. I don't think I
> would feel satisfied by composing solely with a computer. I would miss the feeling of
> waves of feedback shaking my eardrums, or the total high that results when you find
> yourself caught in a white-noise wall improv.
>
Yeah thats my point really. Using a computer you are less lodged in the 'present', in the feeeling of
sound/music (regardless of what music you are creating). You are more hyponotised by the operation of
complex symbols and TV screens.
> > My few band experiences have not been positive.
> Bands are hard things to make work. The only person that hasn't driven me nuts in a
> band situation is my brother.
>
> > In a shy introverted way I;m a meglomaniac and
> > in my grouchy view most musicians can;t cut it (says me mr.sloppy).
> Hmm. I could see how such an attitude would grate on others....
>
well, I;m not a mouthy type, I would just disengage seeing thats things weren;t going to gel.Its just
that feeling I get when somone demonstrates a shit riff or somthing , and i don;t want to go 'thats a
pile of shite', but will just get a sinking feeling inside and go ",mmmmmm, not sure how well that
will work...." or something.
> >But i think it may be
> > worthwhile to slowly compose music that could be played by a >guitaris/drummer/bassist then
> > recruit using demo CD's/tapes. No more standing in the rehearsal room 'what shall >we do' 'i
> > want this band to be different'. Learn the music, play it, refine the arrangements >and
> > dynamics, compostotion is taken care of.
> That's the ideal, but it almost never happens like that. The trick is to learn how to
> create with other people while somehow not compromising (to much) your artistic
> vision.
I guess its building the right team.
> If you get it to work, the results are fantastic. You know what I mean - that
> magic moment when you're playing with someone and then you both lock in to each
> other. What I've always longed for are a drummer and a bassist who are both
> obsessed with music, and are not afraid to lose themselves in it with me. I need
> musicians who aren't afraid to take a moment and go with it.
>
> > What are the best albums about at the moment?
> Damn, too many to name. Depends what you like...
>
> >think of it.
>
> > I like napalm death. I like a track by Phobia i heard once. Older godlflesh is good.
> > okay ND and godflesh arn;t death but they are still heavy metal.
> > the ultimate metal, who should i check out on CD? (i got no tape player!)
> What do you consider "the ultimate metal?" I'm not sure what that means... some of
> my favorite albums are Carcass' "Heartwork," Human Remains "Using Sickness as a
> Hero," "Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated".... I could go on forever. Be more
> specific, I can recommend better shit. Bands like Kiss it Goodbye, Bloodlet and
> Coalesce are ungodly heavy. System of a Down, Immolation and Deadguy all have
> some great riffs... so do Blood Duster... depends on what speed you like, really.
>
To me, the ultimate metal is throat grabbing riffs, endlessly repeated in a hypnotic high energy
pummeling, matched with very skillful arranging and dynamics.Some bands bung in 30 riffs in a song
and end up with a crappy over cooked mush.
Some bands just have shit riffs, they don;t know what they are doing.
The guitars should all have heavy strings and be detuned way way down, all the middle stripped out
with fiersome distrotion, sometimes just going into a blur of hard noise.
The vocals are completely unintelligable, low in the mix. The drums are accurate, providing much of
the shifting dynamics under wall of riff-o-rama. The top of the bass sifts in the middle of the
midrange hole in the guitars, a distorted metal snake of sound, working with and counterpointing
against the guitars. its bottom snuggles witht he bassdrums and shakes your ass. Drums are carefully
distorted as well perhaps.Some songs use only one riff. Everything is carefully rehearsed. Dynamic
gaps, or descents into choas etc appear, but always at the correct time and everything reintegrates
perfectly. No ballads. The 'solos' is a slab of abstract guitar noise coming in behind the riffs.
Textures/carefully done 'quiet bits' between songs provide a break before the envitable crunch starts
again, with another diabolical riff-o-rama!
I've never really heard such a band, but i sure would like to!
Zeni Geva are *kind* of on this track, but they still don;t push far enough.
(at least not on live in america or desire for agony)
yeah, a death metal zeni geva would be a starting point.
Phobia track I really like because they knew that repreating powerful riffs a lot increases the
power, not take it away, and the guitars sounded heavy. Should get an album.
napalm death, regardless of now quite a commercial band , are very good - good riffs well arranged. I
heard some carcass from heartwork, and thought it too finickity.
Jamie
>
jqu...@monmouth.com
> >Are speaker volumes universal, as in does 8 on one speaker sound the same
> >volume as 8 on another?
from 1-10. My new one goes from 1-50. My old stereo on 10 was about as loud as
my new one on 38.
> >If I turned my volume up to 8, the high frequencies would break my windows
> >and I would be swept away in a whirlwind of soundwaves!
Depends on the music. I used to listen to my old stereo on 10 all the time, usually
when I was two rooms away washing dishes or something. Putting a stereo up that
loud usually causes the speakers to distort like hell, though.
> > I'm such a wuss....:)
Nah, you're just smarter. You'll probably never blow a speaker!
Dove Family
of fits your decription. also discordance axis are awesome grind, best grind today i think. although
they don't have a bassist, but they do have a pretty good drummer. carcass' first album reek of
putrefecation rules, its much more grind than their other albums. also plutocracy is cool.
mike
jqu...@monmouth.com
> they don't have a bassist, but they do have a pretty good drummer.
Axis, there was HR....
>carcass' first album reek of
> putrefecation rules, its much more grind than their other albums.
Also sounds like it was recorded underwater, if you dig that.
Stig Mathausen
>
> I once issued a challenge to all the dumb local
> death metal bands in south Jersey/Philly to form a new, completely insane group.
> You know, heavy as hell, fast, tight, etc. - BUT, they had to name their band Peaceful
> Lovely Tulips, and name their first album "Petting the Pretty Fluffy Bunnies." No one
> took me up on it. Macho pussies.
You have to look to the hairmetal types for the macho/sissy dichotomy - like Pretty Maids,
Cinderella, etc. On the more abrasive side, there was always Happy Flowers... Personally,
I'd like to hear of a death act called the Cowardly Sissies - *there's* a challenge!
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The slowly-evolving homesite of Alberta's finest Ottawa-based noise project
Jamie
> > Lovely Tulips, and name their first album "Petting the Pretty Fluffy Bunnies." No one
> > took me up on it. Macho pussies.
>
> You have to look to the hairmetal types for the macho/sissy dichotomy - like Pretty Maids,
> Cinderella, etc. On the more abrasive side, there was always Happy Flowers... Personally,
> I'd like to hear of a death act called the Cowardly Sissies - *there's* a challenge!
>
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I thought GWAR's pantomime approach seemed kinda sensible. Music a bit shit. never saw them
live but heard their gigs were really entertaining.
By trying to be 'funny' I would think its easy to come off as arty pretensious if your not
careful.
Maybe with metal take the dressing up/imagery/seriousness to ridiculous extreme levels so it
becomes absolute farce but absolutely serious. I guess black metal goes someway to doing this.
James Whitehead
<trop...@istar.ca> writes
>I'd like to hear of a death act called the Cowardly Sissies - *there's* a
>challenge!
>
a north of england expression-
e.g. to act like a BGB-
>
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>
>tension hook online: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/tropica
>The slowly-evolving homesite of Alberta's finest Ottawa-based noise project
--
James Whitehead