Farmer's manual -0- reveiws, opinions?
Metalschaft
good-sounding hype about. Something to the effect of minute long loops
of extremely harsh broken-machine sounding noises. Any truth to this?
All descriptions, background info, and shallow sounds-like-x comparisons
appreciated...
-mtlshft
Patrick McGinley
techno whitish noise, in an off the top of my head description. They
are three Austrian lads, if I remember correctly, who look strangely
like American skater kids with big baggy pants and baseball caps. I saw
them here in Paris a few months back as the opener for Jim O'Rourke (in
musique concrete mode this time, as opposed to guitar-boy mode), and
while the sound was fairly interesting not one of them looked up even
once from their laptop macs to acknowledge their audience, nor did they
seem very interested in what they were doing. We had a theory that they
just put on a cd and were actually all just playing Tetris on stage, but
none of us could get at a good enough angle to see the screens. We'll
never know the truth. They are recommendable on disc, though; I've
heard the two (I think that's all there are) and they're not excessively
different, although the new one tends towards shorter loopier tracks (if
that's what your looking for) and also comes with a free live cd (at
least the first 1000 do/did).
hope that helps,
pat
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
I wouldn't go as far to say they were harsh-definitely f'ed up though.
FSK open w/ a series of 2-5(a few longer)minute tracks comprised of
shattered beats,disassembled digital/analogue anamolies etc..
More akin to malfunctioning electronics than broken industrial machinery.
Closes w/ a long series of very brief tracks-indexed only for shuffling
potential I think-these are much less beat affected and more concrete.
Overall a cool release well worth owning if you appreciate concrete or
electroacoustic sounds.Certainly not for your average techno fan though.
-Jay <http://noiseweb.com/whus>
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Metalschaft <purewa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Just probing the groups for some insight into a group I've heard some
> good-sounding hype about. Something to the effect of minute long loops
> of extremely harsh broken-machine sounding noises. Any truth to this?
Extremely harsh? Hrm, no... Their Rehberg and Bauer project on Touch is
harsher and sounds closer to the above description.
> All descriptions, background info, and shallow sounds-like-x comparisons
> appreciated...
Cool... I'm great at shallow comparisons. The cd I recommend most by them is
FSCK. Noisey (but not !!!!AA!ARRR!GHH!H!!!) techno type sounds and a few
freaky wanna-be drum and bass type rhythms. But it's more of a minimal sound
than a noise assault. Explorers_We is a bit like FSCK but more minimal and a
whole lot less dynamic and a bit masturbatory I think... get that one last.
Their first cd is also very good, but a little more conventional in rhythm,
and harder to find now... comes in the typical Mego packaging, the Hafler
Trio sized cd sleeves... But if you want noiser stuff then your best bet is
to pick up the Rehberg and Bauer cd on Touch, or the Pita and General Magic
CDs on Mego. The collab (on vinyl) the Mego boys did with Merzbow is also
great... Other stuff on Mego is also worth looking into. Fennesz - Hot.el
Parallel (weird guitar ambience like some Jim O' Rourke stuff maybe) and
Potuznik - groovy idm type stuff.
VSVN ARAB
Harvey Devoe Thornburg
<VSVN...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>In article <35C431...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Metalschaft <purewa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> Just probing the groups for some insight into a group I've heard some
>> good-sounding hype about. Something to the effect of minute long loops
>> of extremely harsh broken-machine sounding noises. Any truth to this?
>
>Extremely harsh? Hrm, no... Their Rehberg and Bauer project on Touch is
>harsher and sounds closer to the above description.
>
I think Rehberg and Bauer are different people altogether. They run the
Mego label and their stuff is vaguely similar to FM (based on compilation
tracks I've heard).
>> All descriptions, background info, and shallow sounds-like-x comparisons
>> appreciated...
>
>Cool... I'm great at shallow comparisons. The cd I recommend most by them is
>FSCK. Noisey (but not !!!!AA!ARRR!GHH!H!!!) techno type sounds and a few
>freaky wanna-be drum and bass type rhythms. But it's more of a minimal sound
>than a noise assault. Explorers_We is a bit like FSCK but more minimal and a
>whole lot less dynamic and a bit masturbatory I think...
For the 'dead' CD, it's like this for the first 15 or so tracks (of 60),
then the rhythms start and we get into more dynamic digital cut-up
stuff. The 'gobs of static' parts are kinda cool. Then things quiet down
somewhat. I think they picked the worst possible track sequencing to force
us to play it in random order (which significantly improves the experience).
Unless you're really curious as to what they hype's about, save your money
and buy the Pomassl "Trail Error" CD (laton). He's in a vaguely similar style
but infinitely more engaging. Then again, I haven't heard FSCK.
--Harvey
Justin Beck
<VSVN...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>In article <35C431...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Metalschaft <purewa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> Just probing the groups for some insight into a group I've heard some
>> good-sounding hype about. Something to the effect of minute long loops
>> of extremely harsh broken-machine sounding noises. Any truth to this?
>
>Extremely harsh? Hrm, no... Their Rehberg and Bauer project on Touch is
>harsher and sounds closer to the above description.
>
Argh! Farmers Manual is the same as Rehberg and Bauer? No wonder they
sound so similar (at least on that cool Touch Sampler.3 comp). What
else do you know about these people? I love their stuff.
>> All descriptions, background info, and shallow sounds-like-x comparisons
>> appreciated...
>
>Cool... I'm great at shallow comparisons. The cd I recommend most by them is
>FSCK. Noisey (but not !!!!AA!ARRR!GHH!H!!!) techno type sounds and a few
>freaky wanna-be drum and bass type rhythms. But it's more of a minimal sound
>than a noise assault. Explorers_We is a bit like FSCK but more minimal and a
>whole lot less dynamic and a bit masturbatory I think... get that one last.
>Their first cd is also very good, but a little more conventional in rhythm,
>and harder to find now... comes in the typical Mego packaging, the Hafler
>Trio sized cd sleeves... But if you want noiser stuff then your best bet is
>to pick up the Rehberg and Bauer cd on Touch, or the Pita and General Magic
>CDs on Mego. The collab (on vinyl) the Mego boys did with Merzbow is also
>great... Other stuff on Mego is also worth looking into. Fennesz - Hot.el
>Parallel (weird guitar ambience like some Jim O' Rourke stuff maybe) and
>Potuznik - groovy idm type stuff.
>
>VSVN ARAB
>
Oh ok, that works. Thanks! Oh, can anyone get me the address for Mego
or tell them to send some stuff to KDVS in Davis??? Thank ya.
Justin
Harvey Devoe Thornburg
Mego Bauer KEG
Ruckergasse 10
1120 Wien/Austria
phone: +43 1 817 14 780
fax +43 1 817 14 788
I found this at www.mdos.at, which is their distribution service.
The Mego home page itself is, unsurprisingly, www.mego.at .
--Harvey
VSVN...@my-dejanews.com
har...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Harvey Devoe Thornburg) wrote:
> In article <6qjba1$494$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> <VSVN...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> >harsher and sounds closer to the above description.
>
> Mego label and their stuff is vaguely similar to FM (based on compilation
> tracks I've heard).
Rehberg is Pita and Bauer is known as General Magic (both of these people have
CDs on Mego under those names). I'm pretty sure that they are also involved in
Farmer's Manual in some way besides just releasing FM material on their
label. I'm almost positive I had read that somewhere, but I could be totally
wrong...
> Unless you're really curious as to what they hype's about, save your money
> and buy the Pomassl "Trail Error" CD (laton). He's in a vaguely similar style
> but infinitely more engaging. Then again, I haven't heard FSCK.
Yeah! Pomassl is great. I agree that Pomassl would be a better buy than
Explorers_We. But I also think it's worth getting FSCK.
And if anyone has any leads where I can get the Rehberg and Bauer 10" on Korm
Plastics, I would appreciate it. Soleilmoon sold out within a couple of days
of getting them in...
VSVN ARAB
VSVN...@my-dejanews.com
ez07...@dogbert.ucdavis.edu (Justin Beck) wrote:
> Argh! Farmers Manual is the same as Rehberg and Bauer? No wonder they
I think so maybe, but don't quote me on it :) Harvey Thornburg has me
doubting that now. Well, they're all Mego people at the very least...
> sound so similar (at least on that cool Touch Sampler.3 comp). What
> else do you know about these people? I love their stuff.
I don't know a lot about them. Most information can had about these people
from the Mego and Touch/Ash Internation/Tray/Or pages. You might also
recognize their names from the Merzbow remix cd...
jqu...@monmouth.com
that Relapse will no longer be releasing (no pun intended) noise. How can this be,
considering that they just released Merzbow's "Tauromachine?" I know that Bill has
left, but someone clue me in with whatever else is going on/has happened.
Skincrime
>considering that they just released Merzbow's "Tauromachine?"
A simple equation, Merzbow=Money............
Erik Hoffman
>
> Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I know some people have been saying
> considering that they just released Merzbow's "Tauromachine?" I know that Bill has
> left, but someone clue me in with whatever else is going on/has happened.
I think they are scaling the noise WAY back. I don't think they are buying releases from other
labels anymore. They may have a couple more "popular" artists' CDs on the horizon.
I think it will be phased out completely, eventually.
I suggest everyone order from Bottlenekk anyway. They have the biggest damn list of stuff.
Check their online catalog.
e
jqu...@monmouth.com
Well, some of us did. ;)
Antho...@yahoo.com
down release because of low sales. Release is entirely done as a love of the
music cuz it makes no money. The excellent Atrax Morgue cd didn't do very
well, for example. High returns. The Pain Jerk record has been cancelled /
postponed. Merzbow, Trial Of The Bow, Tribes Of Neurot, Amber Asylum all did
well, the others so-so.
So, its merely a finacial thing. Matt seemed really excited about noise and
experimental music so it wasn't merely Bill's thing. I'm betting they'll do
one Merzbow a year from now on, with occasional releases from harsh bands.
Sucks that metal kids didn't take to noise as much as I'd thought they might.
Anthony
MONOnanie
>I think it will be phased out completely, eventually.
this is good, because it means they will have to liquidate all that
ridiculously priced shit..
they have some really good, out of print items that never sold (one could
suspect because of the original prices) but are long gone from other places..
>I suggest everyone order from Bottlenekk anyway. They have the biggest damn
>list of stuff.
>Check their online catalog.
whats the url?
joel
SPITE - http://www.noiseweb.com/spite
Brad Bizzolt
>>I suggest everyone order from Bottlenekk anyway. They have the biggest damn
>>list of stuff.
>>Check their online catalog.
>
>whats the url?
http://members.aol.com/iemsay10/bnekk.html. I thought they were
mostly punk/emo/grind/whatever type of stuff, though.
Erik Hoffman
>
> On 11 Aug 1998 00:36:26 GMT, mono...@aol.com (MONOnanie) wrote:
>
> >>I suggest everyone order from Bottlenekk anyway. They have the biggest damn
> >>list of stuff.
> >>Check their online catalog.
> >
> >whats the url?
>
> mostly punk/emo/grind/whatever type of stuff, though.
Yeah they have a lot of punk/emo/grind/etc. but lately they have been a
huge buyer of noise music. I encourage all labels to contact them.
e
Stig Mathausen
>
> > Sucks that metal kids didn't take to noise as much as I'd thought they might.
Thing is, to really cross over, noisers would have to target their image and
poses to appeal to adolescent angst, and not many have done that. And they
don't tour much, and when they do, not all have a "kick-ass" live show. Yep,
there are many factors preventing metalheads from buying into noise big-time.
__________
- Advertisment -
tension hook online: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/tropica
The slowly-evolving homesite of Alberta's finest Ottawa-based noise project
MONOnanie
>huge buyer of noise music. I encourage all labels to contact them.
>
>e
i trust your word, erik, i'll have to look again.
terje...@online.no
VSVN...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6qko3i$qgo$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>,
> ez07...@dogbert.ucdavis.edu (Justin Beck) wrote:
> > Argh! Farmers Manual is the same as Rehberg and Bauer? No wonder they
>
> I think so maybe, but don't quote me on it :) Harvey Thornburg has me
> doubting that now. Well, they're all Mego people at the very least...
If people are actually suggesting that Rehberg and Bauer are identical (as in
flesh & blood) with Farmers Manual, well, then they are wrong. Rehberg &
Bauer is Peter Rehberg (of Pita & General Magic fame) and another guy (or
maybe not), while Farmers Manual is a collective of four? five? six? people
originating from some other part than Vienna.
But what's in a person, right? :)
> VSVN ARAB
/Oeivind/
Jamie
Stig Mathausen wrote:
> jqu...@monmouth.com wrote:
> >
> > > Sucks that metal kids didn't take to noise as much as I'd thought they might.
> > Well, some of us did. ;)
>
> Thing is, to really cross over, noisers would have to target their image and
> poses to appeal to adolescent angst, and not many have done that. And they
> don't tour much, and when they do, not all have a "kick-ass" live show. Yep,
> there are many factors preventing metalheads from buying into noise big-time.
>
my task is set then........grow my hair long, get a tongue piercing, all distortion
pedals at overload, maybe even a drummer.
" Rectal Noise Disharge - Visions of Putrid Anal Debasement"
.......a spikey unreadable death logo.....a crappy very sub- hieronymous bosch painting
on the cover, interviews in metal hammer, stories of excrement eating and corpse
defilement.... invent my own language to sing in,.....20000 units in the first 8
months.....
<teeheehee>
Mason Jones
: my task is set then........grow my hair long, get a tongue piercing, all distortion
: pedals at overload, maybe even a drummer.
The thing is that in fact, this might well work. Hell, if a group of
people got together and made themselves out to be a black/death-metal
band, with a drummer, and just got out there and made a huge fuckin'
amount of noise, it would probably appeal more, just because it would
seem more familiar while still being noise. Plus it'd probably be a lot
of fun. Anal Cunt approached this, but they didn't take it all the way.
Go for it! If you can make noise and end up opening for Brutal Truth
or Sepultura, then we'll all be impressed, for sure.
=============================================================
Mason Jones Charnel Music, Automatism Press
ma...@charnel.com P.O. Box 170277
San Francisco, CA 94117-0277
Phone & Fax 415.664.1829 www.charnel.com
=============================================================
Brad Bizzolt
wrote:
>If you can make noise
(not to start another 'what is noise' thread, but)
Who can't?
-----------------------------------------------
bizzolt(at)hotmail*com
The Fantastics - boring, generic noise
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Halfpipe/2685
-----------------------------------------------
Stig Mathausen
>
> Jamie <badm...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> : my task is set then........grow my hair long, get a tongue piercing, all distortion
> : pedals at overload, maybe even a drummer.
>
> The thing is that in fact, this might well work. Hell, if a group of
> people got together and made themselves out to be a black/death-metal
> band, with a drummer, and just got out there and made a huge fuckin'
> amount of noise, it would probably appeal more, just because it would
> seem more familiar while still being noise. Plus it'd probably be a lot
> of fun. Anal Cunt approached this, but they didn't take it all the way.
> Go for it! If you can make noise and end up opening for Brutal Truth
> or Sepultura, then we'll all be impressed, for sure.
Some of the pwr-electronic set are half-way there, in terms of lyrical content
and attitude, but the amorphous sound/lack of dynamic riffage just turns off
metal dudes. I once played some Whitehouse for some metalheads of my
acquaintence a few years back and just got a "what is this tweetybird screechy
shit? You *paid* for this?" reaction. Oh well.
Certainly if I ever get around to attempting a live sound, it'll be centred
around guitar abuse. Prehaps Solmania has shown us the path to reaching the
Great Unwashed Metal Nation?
Erik Hoffman
That is a great quote.
e
antho...@my-dejanews.com
Merzbow (cuz he's so Brutal dudes, he's the god of noise!) and Brighter Death
Now, one of release's other high sellers.
Scary rythmic deep noise is the key. The feedback stuff isn't what metal is
about, rythmic and thick (and brutal) with horror movie samples will beat out
screeching feedback and mysogyny (even if Whitehouse is pretty damn brutal)...
There is interest in noise from "metal dudes" but probably the percentage of
Mortician worshipers (like myself) who love merzbow and the percentage of
sonic youth worshipers (not really my thing) who love merzbow is the same.
Remember that Whitehouse once played live with SLAYER (who I love way more
than I'll ever like Whitehouse, although I'm almost depressed when I think
about how bad the new slayer lp is, when they could've written something as
amazing as hell awaits or seasons in the abyss...)...
Anthony
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
HIGH RISE "Live" PSF
Both are guitar,bass and drums and are truly intense rock
I guess that's how close rock will ever approach to becoming noise.
-Jay/noisetc.
Jamie
Mason Jones wrote:
> Jamie <badm...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> : my task is set then........grow my hair long, get a tongue piercing, all distortion
> : pedals at overload, maybe even a drummer.
>
> The thing is that in fact, this might well work. Hell, if a group of
> people got together and made themselves out to be a black/death-metal
> band, with a drummer, and just got out there and made a huge fuckin'
> amount of noise, it would probably appeal more, just because it would
> seem more familiar while still being noise. Plus it'd probably be a lot
> of fun. Anal Cunt approached this, but they didn't take it all the way.
> Go for it! If you can make noise and end up opening for Brutal Truth
> or Sepultura, then we'll all be impressed, for sure.
>
I don't think my wife would tolerate me with long hair, and it would take a year to grow!
;-)
Have to hire a bunch of wookees and black/white corpse paint!
As mentioned later in the thread, I also think the key is combining heavy
riffdom/percussion with (mainly)guitar produced fuzz outs.
The presentation is important. older godflesh and Loop don't go down too well with
teenage metal heads I don;l think, much to po-faced/serious.
The serious stupidity of metal bands which we know and love has to be conjured -- it
cannot be arty po-faced or total piss take i don;t think. (though GWAR seem to have a
succesful career). invent your own cthulu god.....
A one/two-man deathmetal-noise act who be fun i think - with drummachine, and carefully
processed guitar/vocals you could lay down a something quite thunderous and dynamic.
Is anything by anal cunt worth checking out? I;ve never heard one of their tracks.
Jamie
Brent C
jqu...@monmouth.com
> Merzbow (cuz he's so Brutal dudes, he's the god of noise!) and Brighter Death
> Now, one of release's other high sellers.
black metal? Slayer. Personally, Brighter Death Now is what got me into noise,
them and Malformed Earthborn. But a lot of things borrow from or lean into noise.
Bands like Unsane and Today is the Day... Season to Risk's "In a Perfect World"...
other stuff like Head of David, Incantation's "Mortal Throne of Nazarene," Brutal
Truth... A lot of "metal kids" who get turned on to Godflesh end up investigating
everything Justin and Benny have done. That leads to shit like Final, Main, Painkiller,
Skinner's Black Laboratories; eventually you're a hop, skip and a jump away from
noise. Hell, Masami Akita is a guest musician on Discordance Axis' newest CD. And
what about albums like Anal Cunt's "Top 40 Hits?" Borderline noise. It's simply a
normal evolution for a lot of people who begin liking metal. You can't exactly hear
Aube on the radio, so you have to come to them by little steps.
> Scary rythmic deep noise is the key.
Extremity, in any fashion, be it sonically or conceptually, is the key.
>The feedback stuff isn't what metal is
> about, rythmic and thick (and brutal) with horror movie samples
I hate horror movie samples. The only band that pulls them off seriously is Today is
the Day (they sample Carrie on the new disc). Blood Duster does a good job of using
samples while being firmly tongue in cheek.
>will beat out
> screeching feedback and mysogyny (even if Whitehouse is pretty damn brutal)...
I really think that the most brutal music is ambient/isolationist stuff with no drums
or screaming or anything like that. And I'm a huge metalhead too.
> There is interest in noise from "metal dudes" but probably the percentage of
> Mortician worshipers (like myself)
My god. What is wrong with you? I never slag anyone's musical taste, but I'll make
this excpetion: Mortician is possibly the stupidest band on earth. Anyone can take a
Casio keyboard, a broken bass amp, a bunch of melted fuzz boxes and burp into a
mic about serial killers and zombies. When Mortician first came into the station at
my school, everyone but me (who was familiar with them before) thought that the
CD was a joke band put together by members of other Relapse bands. No one could
possibly be serious about something this outright cheesy, they reasoned.
> Remember that Whitehouse once played live with SLAYER
[shrug] And Monkey of Korn once listed Painkiller's "Guts of a Virgin" as one of the
albums that had the most influence on him. People like all kinds of music. Genres
aren't, and should never be, containment areas for the people who associate
themselves with them, like, "I like hardcore. I can't like this noise shit," or, "I only
like scum from Wyoming, fuck Rage Against the Machine." How silly. Screw all that.
Let's throw it all together, mix it up, and have fun. Let's bring on the hip-hop
disco-jazz zydeco kletzmer-grind.
James
jqu...@monmouth.com
> and attitude,
your "attitude" must be... well, whatever you think it has to be?
>but the amorphous sound/lack of dynamic riffage just turns off
> metal dudes.
You can't hold that against a person. A hip-hop afficianado is not going to really dig
stuff like Brutal Truth. "Where are the beats?" they'd say. "You can't hear what this
guy is saying." A lot of people like metal because of the sound, i.e. they like the
guitars, the drums, the vocals. If Merzbow opened up for Slayer one night, chances
are most of the audience wouldn't dig it. Why? They're there to hear guitars, drums
and Tom Araya getting old. Even people who are very open-minded find it hard to
appreciate noise. Noise throws a lot of "normal" musical facets that one can latch on
to right out the window. That's an uncomfortable place for most people.
> I once played some Whitehouse for some metalheads of my
> acquaintence a few years back and just got a "what is this tweetybird screechy
> shit? You *paid* for this?" reaction. Oh well.
[laugh] I've driven my family insane, going from Deicide at 14 to Zorn, Tribe called
Quest, Ravi Shankar, Coltrane and Merzbow, etc. at 21. I think my family has a
harder time when I listen to "normal" music. [laugh]
> Certainly if I ever get around to attempting a live sound, it'll be centred
> around guitar abuse. Prehaps Solmania has shown us the path to reaching the
> Great Unwashed Metal Nation?
Nah. Dissecting Table is The Way.
James
jqu...@monmouth.com
to say stuff like, "I have long hair and wear Gorguts t-shirts, but I'm on the dean's
list in college and everyone loves me....?"
> > Thing is, to really cross over, noisers would have to target their image and
> > poses to appeal to adolescent angst, and not many have done that.
Well, even when I was young, metal appealed to me because of its emotional power.
The fact that it freaked everyone out and somewhat, as a 13-year-old, empowered
me when i was an outcast before, was an added bonus. That wears off quickly. Of
course, metal attracts more morons than any other genre. But not everyone that
listens to it is in solely to piss off their parents.
> >And they
> > don't tour much, and when they do, not all have a "kick-ass" live show. Yep,
> > there are many factors preventing metalheads from buying into noise big-time.
How many times do you think bands like Brutal Truth or Anal Cunt tour Virginia? In
fact, how often do you think metalheads get a chance to see underground bands?
Depending on where they live, it varies.
> " Rectal Noise Disharge - Visions of Putrid Anal Debasement"
I seriously want this fasicantion with the rectum explained. I know Carcass used to
include that stuff in their songs as a sarcastic way of attacking the public's eating of
meat (since they're all vegetarians), but still....
> .......a spikey unreadable death logo.....
I hate those. All Osmose bands should have their logo designers shot.
>a crappy very sub- hieronymous bosch painting
> on the cover, interviews in metal hammer, stories of excrement eating and corpse
> defilement....
Let's not forget Satan and colon cleansing!
> invent my own language to sing in,
...Ruins?
>.....20000 units in the first 8
> months.....
Sure, just sign to Relapse... maybe even Victory!
Okay I'm done now.
James
JJ Michaels
> I seriously want this fasicantion with the rectum explained. I know Carcass used to
> include that stuff in their songs as a sarcastic way of attacking the public's eating of
> meat (since they're all vegetarians), but still....
Kids are obsessed with scatalogia. Is your memory that poor? We're all
children at heart, and metalheads are a little more honest about it.
Jamie
jqu...@monmouth.com wrote: > " Rectal Noise Disharge - Visions of Putrid Anal Debasement"
> I seriously want this fasicantion with the rectum explained. I know Carcass used to
> include that stuff in their songs as a sarcastic way of attacking the public's eating of
> meat (since they're all vegetarians), but still....
Many people have a rather difficult relationship with their butt holes, (ie look how common
colon cancer is).
Guess its that child thing of pee pee and poo poo. Some never get past that stage!
Free your ass and your mind will follow?
JJ Michaels
>
> "what is this tweetybird screechy shit? You *paid* for this?"
>
That is a great album title.
JJ Michaels
> [laugh] I've driven my family insane, going from Deicide at 14 to Zorn, Tribe called
> Quest, Ravi Shankar, Coltrane and Merzbow, etc. at 21. I think my family has a
> harder time when I listen to "normal" music. [laugh]
My sibs got very used to Whitehouse & co after a while. Aside from the
repeated "toilet flushing?" jibes. What they could never abide is
Current 93 and that unbearably whiney-voiced Tibet. Skewed musical
conventions hurt more than deliberately flouted conventions.
Maliquai
> > include that stuff in their songs as a sarcastic way of attacking the public's eating of
> > meat (since they're all vegetarians), but still....
>
> Many people have a rather difficult relationship with their butt holes, (ie look how common
> colon cancer is).
> Guess its that child thing of pee pee and poo poo. Some never get past that stage!
"People think it's gross, but it's really good on toast..."
Have any metal bands covered this great classic?
Maliquai
It's the other way around.
Stig Mathausen
>
> > Some of the pwr-electronic set are half-way there, in terms of lyrical content
> > and attitude,
> Where is it written that, if you're a metal band, your lyrics must be sophomoric and
> your "attitude" must be... well, whatever you think it has to be?
Well, there is little metal, even that which expresses some kind of social conscience, that
dosen't trade on a "defiant" pose, however sincere it might be - fuckin', fightin',
resistin' the man.
>
> >but the amorphous sound/lack of dynamic riffage just turns off
> > metal dudes.
> You can't hold that against a person. A hip-hop afficianado is not going to really dig
> stuff like Brutal Truth. "Where are the beats?" they'd say. "You can't hear what this
> guy is saying." A lot of people like metal because of the sound, i.e. they like the
> guitars, the drums, the vocals. If Merzbow opened up for Slayer one night, chances
> are most of the audience wouldn't dig it. Why? They're there to hear guitars, drums
> and Tom Araya getting old.
Sure; I don't hold particular tastes against anyone (well, there *are* exceptions to
everything...). But lots of metal-types go on about how "extreme" and "noisy" the stuff
they listen to is, in those terms alone. Whereas what they truly dig is the pounding
rhythm, the crunching riffage, the widdlyiddlyiddly guitar solos, and the vocals. Noise
appreciation is but a by-product of the intensity/roughness of the performance.
> > I once played some Whitehouse for some metalheads of my
> > acquaintence a few years back and just got a "what is this tweetybird screechy
> > shit? You *paid* for this?" reaction. Oh well.
> [laugh] I've driven my family insane, going from Deicide at 14 to Zorn, Tribe called
> Quest, Ravi Shankar, Coltrane and Merzbow, etc. at 21. I think my family has a
> harder time when I listen to "normal" music. [laugh]
Yeah - nice to see Shankar and Coltrane mentioned. Had "Ascention" on the player not long
ago...balances the Incap's "Feedback of NMS" in a fine manner.
>
> > Certainly if I ever get around to attempting a live sound, it'll be centred
> > around guitar abuse. Prehaps Solmania has shown us the path to reaching the
> > Great Unwashed Metal Nation?
> Nah. Dissecting Table is The Way.
>
Hmmm. What are they/he like live? That's what I was thinking of when citing Solmania.
Stig Mathausen
>
> My sibs got very used to Whitehouse & co after a while. Aside from the
> repeated "toilet flushing?" jibes.
...in reference to the splish-splash piddling sound permeating some of the older
material?
> What they could never abide is
> Current 93 and that unbearably whiney-voiced Tibet. Skewed musical
> conventions hurt more than deliberately flouted conventions.
Geex, I never took Dave T. as whiny - he kind of reminds me of an old-time
storyteller, who could be delivering his songs around a campfire back in Druid
times or something. Although, to connect this to the above, I do wonder how he,
given his quasi-spiritualism, came to co-write one of Whitehouse's finest tracks...
jqu...@monmouth.com
> processed guitar/vocals you could lay down a something quite thunderous and >dynamic.
> Is anything by anal cunt worth checking out? I;ve never heard one of their tracks.
Check out "We Like it When U Die." That's probably the most accessable. Work
backward from there.
James
jqu...@monmouth.com
> >Casio keyboard, a broken bass amp, a bunch of melted fuzz boxes and burp into a
> >mic about serial killers and zombies.
>
Wait a couple of days, I'll get together with some of the toddlers on my block and
we'll cut an album in the same style.
James
(that guy)
jqu...@monmouth.com
> everything...). But lots of metal-types go on about how "extreme" and "noisy" the >stuff
> they listen to is, in those terms alone. Whereas what they truly dig is the >pounding
> rhythm, the crunching riffage, the widdlyiddlyiddly guitar solos, and the vocals. >Noise
> appreciation is but a by-product of the intensity/roughness of the performance.
guitar playing in any form, though.
Here's a survey: who does everyone consider to be the most "insane" death
metal/grindcore vocalist?
> Hmmm. What are they/he like live? That's what I was thinking of when citing >Solmania.
Uh, tagging Dissecting Table with a genre is a tad difficult. How's noise mixed with
some industrial with screaming? Check out my site to read my friend Creaig's
review of the new DT, "Into the Light." http://fpc.hypermart.net
Gary Robert Kelly
>Geex, I never took Dave T. as whiny - he kind of reminds me of an
old-time
>storyteller, who could be delivering his songs around a campfire back
in Druid
>times or something. Although, to connect this to the above, I do
wonder how he,
>given his quasi-spiritualism, came to co-write one of Whitehouse's
finest tracks...
Co-wrote? I thought the credit was just for improvising noise-synth on
it.
--
Gaz (_*_) blac...@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Village/1408
"Lust he follows virtue close,
through the steaming woodlands" - Comus
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
Brent C <n...@no.no> wrote:
> >Anyone can take a
> >Casio keyboard, a broken bass amp, a bunch of melted fuzz boxes and burp into a
> >mic about serial killers and zombies.
>
> I have to hear that.
"Hacked up for Barbecue" is hilarious and cool as all get out-the bee's
knees. The song "Fog of Death" is great. I don't consider them "cheesy" at
all-maybe idiot-savants. They are the height of death metal simply cuz
they're kind of lost in their own world and seemingly not concerned w/ being
serious ala Slayer-ya know, no politics.Politics and music/noise absolutey do
not mix well
>
> Let's not forget the Icelandic Brandicore Tejano Pulse Tweak Monoxide Dirt Bounce.
>
>
I got a paper cut just from reading that.
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
Jamie <badm...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mason Jones wrote:
>
> > Jamie <badm...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > : my task is set then........grow my hair long, get a tongue piercing, all distortion
> > : pedals at overload, maybe even a drummer.
> >
> > The thing is that in fact, this might well work. Hell, if a group of
> > people got together and made themselves out to be a black/death-metal
> > band, with a drummer, and just got out there and made a huge fuckin'
> > amount of noise, it would probably appeal more, just because it would
> > seem more familiar while still being noise. Plus it'd probably be a lot
> > of fun. Anal Cunt approached this, but they didn't take it all the way.
> > Go for it! If you can make noise and end up opening for Brutal Truth
> > or Sepultura, then we'll all be impressed, for sure.
> >
>
> I don't think my wife would tolerate me with long hair, and it would take a year to grow!
> ;-)
>
> Have to hire a bunch of wookees and black/white corpse paint!
>
> As mentioned later in the thread, I also think the key is combining heavy
> riffdom/percussion with (mainly)guitar produced fuzz outs.
> The presentation is important. older godflesh and Loop don't go down too well with
> teenage metal heads I don;l think, much to po-faced/serious.
> The serious stupidity of metal bands which we know and love has to be conjured -- it
> cannot be arty po-faced or total piss take i don;t think. (though GWAR seem to have a
> succesful career). invent your own cthulu god.....
> processed guitar/vocals you could lay down a something quite thunderous and dynamic.
That would be MORTICIAN-2men,drum machine etc."hacked up for b-bq"
> Is anything by anal cunt worth checking out? I;ve never heard one of their tracks.
>
> Jamie
>
Yah-"kill'em all" is cool.Has a hilarious take of "unbelevable"
JJ Michaels
> older material?
Well that too, but the music I listen to inspired a lot of toilet humor
in any case. I merely observed that it was their minds making these
associations, not mine.
> Geex, I never took Dave T. as whiny - he kind of reminds me of an old-time
> storyteller, who could be delivering his songs around a campfire back in
> Druid times or something.
Maybe the recent work fits your bill, but the not-so-current Current did
vaguely suit one sibling's favorite Tibet impression, re- a cross
between a mad hittite and Michael Jackson. Tibet's vocal style is fairly
distinct, so picking his assorted ramblings out of Stapleton's prodigous
loops was child's play. Case-in-point: driving along, playing long-lost
sib the newish "LongShadowsFall" single only to get "C93, right?" and
prompt lunge for the eject button. They may not know much about cool
music, but they know what they hate.
> Although, to connect this to the above, I do wonder how he,
> given his quasi-spiritualism, came to co-write one of Whitehouse's finest
> tracks...
Well, "Thank Your Lucky Stars" is the ultimate WH parody, is it not?
It's almost like Tibet was sitting there listening to a bunch of WH
albums, started laughing and exclaimed, "I must work with this man!"
The pre-LuckyStars WH formula is pretty predictable:
1) Take any theme
2) Apply cock-dominant perspective
3) Melt three table-spoons of oscillating synth
4) Mix with quart of feedback
5) Add water and stir
When I listen to LuckyStars, I like to imagine that Bennet is
brainstorming around a "luck" theme while Tibet fills in the (rather
obvious) blanks:
Bennet: Your number's come up, honey...
Tibet: And so has my cock!
Bennet: The chips are down...
Tibet: And so are your wet panties!
Bennet: You came up trumps babe...
Tibet: When i came up your ass!"
It's a bit more tongue-in-cheek than Bennet's usual. More pun-heavy.
Much closer, I think, to Tibet's own warped brand of humour. Note that
Tibet's contributions to the Current are principally lyrical and
conceptual. He doesn't play instruments. (though the photo insert on
NWW's Live at Bar Maldoror shows Tibet playing a piece of styrofoam.)
Listen to "Swastikas for Noddy" and the more cheekier Tibet extractions
such as "Happy Birthday Pigface Christus", "Paperback Honey", "How the
Great Satanic Glory Faded", etc ... and you might be led to the same
conclusion. Then again, maybe not.
JJ Michaels
> > include that stuff in their songs as a sarcastic way of attacking the public's eating of
> > meat (since they're all vegetarians), but still....
>
> Many people have a rather difficult relationship with their butt holes, (ie look how common
> colon cancer is).
> Guess its that child thing of pee pee and poo poo. Some never get past that stage!
The only difference between "adult" humour and "children's" humour is
that adults have figured out a few more things you can do with, and to,
the human body.
The sound of children at play can be very relaxing.... provided you
don't hear what they're actually saying!
jqu...@monmouth.com
> knees. The song "Fog of Death" is great. I don't consider them "cheesy" at
> all-maybe idiot-savants.
instruments with some skill, you know?
> They are the height of death metal simply cuz
> they're kind of lost in their own world and seemingly not concerned w/ being
> serious ala Slayer-ya know, no politics.Politics and music/noise absolutey do
> not mix well
So to be at the top of the genre of death metal, you have to be three muscle-bound
morons from Florida (sorry Creaig) who grew up watching too many bad movies on
the USA network at 3 a.m. with no musical talent whatsoever? And since when did
anyone take Slayer seriously?
James
jqu...@monmouth.com
Brent C
Icelandic Brandicore (c) 1998 by James Quirk
idioti...@my-dejanews.com
jqu...@monmouth.com wrote:
like the
> > If Merzbow opened up for Slayer one night, chances
> > are most of the audience wouldn't dig it.
In 1985, whitehouse toured up and down the west coast with Slayer. William
Bennett read the lyrics to the song Slayer wrote about Josef Mengele, liked
them, and hooked up to tour together. As to whether the Slayer audience
enjoyed W'house, I can't say for sure--but I don't think they worried about
that too much.
S. Boyle
Gary Robert Kelly
>Here's a survey: who does everyone consider to be the most "insane"
death
>metal/grindcore vocalist?
Bartsch of Bethlehem;
her out of Senseless Apocalypse;
Andi of Tumor.
"And I'm back in the attic, I'm playing with the embryo farm"
- The Mabuses
Gary Robert Kelly
>> Is anything by anal cunt worth checking out? I;ve never heard one of
their tracks.
>Check out "We Like it When U Die." That's probably the most accessable.
Work
>backward from there.
Start with "Morbid Florist" instead.
Gary Robert Kelly
<6r06de$nb8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> A one/two-man deathmetal-noise act who be fun i think - with
drummachine, and carefully
>> processed guitar/vocals you could lay down a something quite
thunderous and dynamic.
>
>That would be MORTICIAN
Or Vondur.
stanko...@hotmail.com
Jay/Dead Sun Rising <whu...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote:
>
> > Is anything by anal cunt worth checking out? I;ve never heard one of their
tracks.
> >
> >
> Yah-"kill'em all" is cool.Has a hilarious take of "unbelevable"
'Everyone should be Killed', is actually the name. its excellent, IMO.
totally insane noisegrind with crazed vocals. 'kill 'em all' is still pretty
cool though...
"bow onto your knees...
for the PHANTOM LORD!!"
-stan
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
Stig Mathausen
>
> > I do wonder how Tibet,
> > given his quasi-spiritualism, came to co-write one of Whitehouse's finest
> > tracks...
>
> Well, "Thank Your Lucky Stars" is the ultimate WH parody, is it not?
> It's almost like Tibet was sitting there listening to a bunch of WH
> albums, started laughing and exclaimed, "I must work with this man!"
>
> The pre-LuckyStars WH formula is pretty predictable:
>
> 1) Take any theme
> 2) Apply cock-dominant perspective
> 3) Melt three table-spoons of oscillating synth
> 4) Mix with quart of feedback
> 5) Add water and stir
>
> When I listen to LuckyStars, I like to imagine that Bennet is
> brainstorming around a "luck" theme while Tibet fills in the (rather
> obvious) blanks:
>
> Bennet: Your number's come up, honey...
> Tibet: And so has my cock!
> Bennet: The chips are down...
> Tibet: And so are your wet panties!
> Bennet: You came up trumps babe...
> Tibet: When i came up your ass!"
>
> It's a bit more tongue-in-cheek than Bennet's usual. More pun-heavy.
The subtle humorous edge is part of the track's appeal, but paradoxically, it's
one of the first WH tracks that, to my ears, really had the sonic muscle to back
up the sentiments being expressed.
__________
Pointless "south park" connx'n that just came to me:
"If you want to see my hand, you'd better get in the kitchen and...and make me
some pie, bitch!" - "TYLS" as performed by Eric Cartman
Don Muerte
> > I think that the only noise acts that are "reaching" the metal kids are
> > Merzbow (cuz he's so Brutal dudes, he's the god of noise!) and Brighter Death
> > Now, one of release's other high sellers.
Well, I'd have to say that O Yuki Conjugate and Masonna are ten times
more brutal than Merzbow and BDN.
--
Live long and prosper,
- 'Coffee'
* ICQ: 5378217 *
-- Have your mind tingled and receive --
-- unlimited pleasure: --
-- 'n3ur0c0r3.cach3' --
-- http://members.aol.com/xbaconbitz/dragons.html --
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James and Sean Quirk
find what it technically is. I have a feeling that it may be a violin with sympathetic
strings, perhaps? Anyway, there's two tracks on that Illuminantions: Axiom
Collection CD in which Ravi Shankar is listed as playing one, and it sounds unreal.
Does anyone have that album "Soul Searcher?"
antho...@my-dejanews.com
> Well, I'd have to say that O Yuki Conjugate and Masonna are ten times
> more brutal than Merzbow and BDN.
I'm not familiar (or recognizing) O Yuki Conjugate, but Masonna is more like
grindcore than death metal. Venereology is so death meatl! And BDN is very
death metal, especially on Greatest Death... (i know its a comp from the
trilogy...)
I once played Masonna for a friend and she got really genuinely terrified
and started saying "turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, turn
it off, turn it off..." really fast. It was really funny, though she was
driving at the time so I made sure to turn it off fast!
Anthony / Assume Power Focus
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/1156/apf/apfmain.html
Robb Cunningham
> their tracks.
>
> Work
> >backward from there.
>
> Start with "Morbid Florist" instead.
>
I'd have to agree here as morbid florist is the only worthwhile
thing I've heard from them.
Speaking of what this thread was talking about before which was
something like converting dm kids to noise, I'd agree that the
way to do is mixing noise w/ stuff like harsh drumming or
whatever. I actually have first hand evidence of this because
some years ago in high school I was talking to some guy who was
very heavily into dm/grind etc. and I said something like "hey
tomorrow I'll show you the *real* extreme music" or some such
blabber, so I brought in merzbow and cccc discs to play in his
discman and his comment was something like "the harshness is cool,
but it would be cooler if it has a blast beat or something"
anyhoo
James and Sean Quirk
> thing I've heard from them.
>and I said something like "hey
> tomorrow I'll show you the *real* extreme music" or some such
> blabber, so I brought in merzbow and cccc discs to play in his
> discman and his comment was something like "the harshness is cool,
> but it would be cooler if it has a blast beat or something"
I would have alluded to the "real, extreme" stuff, and then hit him with Yanni. Maybe
he'd buy it.
"Before you know I will be waiting all awake." - Serji Tankian
VSVN...@my-dejanews.com
donm...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> someone whom was improperly quoted said:
> > > I think that the only noise acts that are "reaching" the metal kids are
> > > Merzbow (cuz he's so Brutal dudes, he's the god of noise!) and Brighter
Death
> > > Now, one of release's other high sellers.
>
> more brutal than Merzbow and BDN.
LOL
You were joking, right?
VSVN ARAB
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
>
> 'Everyone should be Killed', is actually the name. its excellent, IMO.
> totally insane noisegrind with crazed vocals. 'kill 'em all' is still pretty
> cool though...
>
> "bow onto your knees...
> for the PHANTOM LORD!!"
>
> -stan
>
YES!Kill'em All kicks.I can remember blasting that tape at the
sites I worked at when doing concrete foundations-12+yrs.ago.
After that it was Master of Puppets.
They're gone now.
Ah well-a.c. or mortician won't give you the same buzz-I mean,fuck,
we're a hell of a lot older now(at least I am) and jaded.I still
love early Sabbath,and that shit hark backs to when I was 15.20 yrs ago!
I wonder how many other noise heads are into Sabbath,Metallica etc.
"Feel it slipping away
Slipping into tomorrow."
-jay
Jay/Dead Sun Rising
>
> I once played Masonna for a friend and she got really genuinely terrified
> and started saying "turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, turn
> it off, turn it off..." really fast. It was really funny, though she was
> driving at the time so I made sure to turn it off fast!
>
> Anthony / Assume Power Focus
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/1156/apf/apfmain.html
:)! Thanx!for sharing that.That's great.
I played the INCAPACITANTS cut from Noisejunkomnibus comp. during
an 8-10 morning show I had a few yrs.back.I can still hear the awe
and confusion in the voice of the girl who called.She was genuinely
impressed I believe-but I think she may have been a little to shy
to accept her feelings.Does that make any sense?
Jamie
JJ Michaels wrote:
>
>
> Kids are obsessed with scatalogia. Is your memory that poor? We're all
> children at heart, and metalheads are a little more honest about it.
I think that sums it up very well!
Gary Robert Kelly
<6r27pt$m7f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> > If Merzbow opened up for Slayer one night, chances
>> > are most of the audience wouldn't dig it.
>
>In 1985, whitehouse toured up and down the west coast with Slayer.
William
>Bennett read the lyrics to the song Slayer wrote about Josef Mengele,
liked
>them, and hooked up to tour together. As to whether the Slayer audience
>enjoyed W'house, I can't say for sure--but I don't think they worried
about
>that too much.
Ackshuleeeee...
I think they only played one gig together, in 1984. Whitehouse were the
headliners! It's true that WB got off on the lyrics to "Angel Of
Death", but that wasn't recorded until 1986. Nowadays he dismisses them
as "cack rock". As he put it in Terrorizer mag in 1996, "Fucking
guitars & drums, I hate them with a vengeance"...
RelapseRec
Rev.Goat
<donm...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Well, I'd have to say that O Yuki Conjugate and Masonna are ten times
>more brutal than Merzbow and BDN.
Having seen MASONNA and Merzbow back to back, I'd have to disagree.
Merzbow would have been impossible to top on the wall-o-noise scale
that night (and Psywarfare, to their credit, came DAMN close). Don't
get me wrong, MASONNA puts on an incredible show, and I enjoyed him
immensely, but there were literally stretches during Merzbow's set
where the rhythms were hitting me so hard I could not breathe. And I
was in the BACK of the room.
Fr.Goatley
on: Lazarus Go Home, "Soak"
Rev.Goat
<whu...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote:
>That would be MORTICIAN-2men,drum machine etc."hacked up for b-bq"
Christ Denied also heads into this realm; I just heard them for the
first time today. Pretty nice stuff, though I've been out of the metal
scene so long I'm back to "if you've heard one band that sounds kinds
like Obituary used to..."
Yeah, I originally came out of the metal scene. (Hell, I have an
original vinyl of Death's _Scream Bloody Gore_ around somewhere...)
Kept looking for more and more extreme stuff, then stumbled on early
Nurse with Wound... and it was as if I saw my destiny in one
sixteen-minute slab of digitized tin. Goddamn. I still think Steve
Stapleton may, in fact, be the Messiah.
Fr.Goatley
James and Sean Quirk
> Merzbow would have been impossible to top on the wall-o-noise scale
> that night (and Psywarfare, to their credit, came DAMN close). Don't
> get me wrong, MASONNA puts on an incredible show, and I enjoyed him
> immensely, but there were literally stretches during Merzbow's set
> where the rhythms were hitting me so hard I could not breathe. And I
> was in the BACK of the room.
volumes those guys unleash live, and I think that to stand there for more than 15
minutes without some type of protection would be suicide....
Dino Lewis
<whu...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote:
> I played the INCAPACITANTS cut from Noisejunkomnibus comp. during
> an 8-10 morning show I had a few yrs.back.I can still hear the awe
> and confusion in the voice of the girl who called.She was genuinely
> impressed I believe-but I think she may have been a little to shy
> to accept her feelings.Does that make any sense?
Oh, absolutely. Hopefully you were able to bring her into the light.
Fr.Goatley
Dino Lewis
<whu...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote:
>I wonder how many other noise heads are into Sabbath,Metallica etc.
I was big into Metallica until ...And Justice for All, after which
they kinda (well, okay, more than kinda) went straight to hell.
I listen to just about everything, including the presently "it's
trendy to listen to this shit" stuff like country (Green on Red only,
however), rap (Public Enemy's _It Takes a Nation of Millions_ is a
classic) and have recently discovered the magic that is Tricky's
_Maxinquaye_ disc. Not that Akita and Bennett have lost any airtime
around Goat Central...
(which reminds me, to stay totally off topic, does Endless Records
have a web presence? If so I can't dig it up...)
Fr.Goatley
James and Sean Quirk
> show.
Mine got damaged irreversably at a Metallica show in '92. It was very bad for a
couple of years, but I have tried to take care of them since, so now it's nominally
better.
>It was 3 months before my brain acclimated - a really hellish 3
> months. Still ringing loudly - I wear plugs when I make noise too.
I practice guitar at pretty low volumes, and I always wear plugs when playing with
other people or when playing shows. I almost always wear them when I go to
concerts now. Anytime that I make noise, I monitor it through headphones at a safe
volume. Otherwise I'd be deaf by now, especially with all the feedback sculpting I've
done.
gerald stevens
<jqu...@monmouth.com> wrote:
>I was wondering; do you wear earplugs to noise shows? I can only imagine the
>volumes those guys unleash live, and I think that to stand there for more than 15
>minutes without some type of protection would be suicide....
I do - but I burned my ears out, I'm sorry to say at a '90 ministry
show. It was 3 months before my brain acclimated - a really hellish 3
months. Still ringing loudly - I wear plugs when I make noise too.
Protect what's left.
Any other noise-heads with tinnitus?
-gerald
SPElias
<jqu...@monmouth.com> writes:
>> I do - but I burned my ears out, I'm sorry to say at a '90 ministry
>> show.
>Mine got damaged irreversably at a Metallica show in '92. It was very bad for
>a
>couple of years, but I have tried to take care of them since, so now it's
>nominally
>better.
>
>>It was 3 months before my brain acclimated - a really hellish 3
>> months. Still ringing loudly - I wear plugs when I make noise too.
>I practice guitar at pretty low volumes, and I always wear plugs when playing
>with
>other people or when playing shows. I almost always wear them when I go to
>concerts now. Anytime that I make noise, I monitor it through headphones at a
>safe
>volume. Otherwise I'd be deaf by now, especially with all the feedback
>sculpting I've
>done.
I must be brain dead, but I just don't understand:
Isn't part of the point of noise performance THE VOLUME, so you can feel the
music? If you use ear plugs, yes, you are protecting yourself, but you are
taking away from the experience/intended effect of the music. Why else must a
person play so loud? The same overtones/sonic effects/whatever are now
available through technology without the ill effects of high volume on the
body.
I submit that high volume is neccessary to produce an effect on the body that
is negated/lost with the use of earplugs or other aural "damping". As such
noise music becomes simply noise, with little or no real artistic value.
I'm quite deaf, and I have been since birth. I often wear two hearing aids to
help me out in work and social situations. I worked with a band for several
years, mixing sound, before I got my "reinforcements". The band played loud,
deliberately obnoxious music. It was my job to make it even more obnoxious
(this was the "second" wave of "punk" circa 1980). This didn't help my
physical disability very much. Yet, to this day, I seldom wear ear plugs to
musical performances. I don't think my "deafness" protects my from the high
volume and frequencies I listen to (I still suffer from tintinatus (?) for a
day or so after a loud show). I simply feel that I am not giving the music the
respect that it deserves by wearing devices that block intended soundwaves from
reaching my ears/brain.......
(I also try to refrain from turning off the stereo/radio/whatever in the middle
of a song, to avoid having those unfinished musical phrases dangle in the
sonic atmosphere.)
gerald stevens
>I must be brain dead, but I just don't understand:
No, you're just deaf. (bad joke, but it had to be made :)
>Isn't part of the point of noise performance THE VOLUME, so you can feel the
>music?
If it's loud enough to feel, physically, then you're going to feel it
in your bones regardless of taking 25dB off of what gets into your
ears. Good, professional ear-plugs take a flat 25dB off, maintaining
the 'spectral purity' of the sound.
>day or so after a loud show). I simply feel that I am not giving the music the
>respect that it deserves by wearing devices that block intended soundwaves from
>reaching my ears/brain.......
Solmania's female member started the show with "you have ear plugs?
(held some up and put them in) - you've been warned." So, I guess I
was hearing their show as they themselves heard it and intended it to
be heard.
About 1/4 the people at that show had ear plugs. Those that didn't
had gleeful looks of amazement at the end, pointing at their ears and
shouting at eachother "I can't hear a thing!".
It's a really cool effect, wandering home with your ears buzzing
loudly - but only if it stops the next day. After 8 years of loud
ringing, I don't think it was worth it. I am one of the unlucky sods
that got tinnitus from a loud show - most of my friends were fine
after a week. Don't go to see a show with a head-cold w/out ear
plugs?
-gerald
Mason Jones
: Isn't part of the point of noise performance THE VOLUME, so you can feel the
: music? If you use ear plugs, yes, you are protecting yourself, but you are
: taking away from the experience/intended effect of the music. Why else must a
: person play so loud? The same overtones/sonic effects/whatever are now
: available through technology without the ill effects of high volume on the
: body.
I find that I can feel the volume physically just fine, while still
hearing the subtleties of the performance with earplugs in. The effects
of high-volume noise go beyond hearing, which is one of the interesting
things about it.
: I submit that high volume is neccessary to produce an effect on the body that
: is negated/lost with the use of earplugs or other aural "damping". As such
: noise music becomes simply noise, with little or no real artistic value.
No, it's not negated or lost with the use of earplugs. Damaging your
hearing irreparably while seeking some "purity" of noise is simply stupid.
I wear earplugs when I play, as well as when I attend other shows.
I play other music, engineer and record, and damaging my hearing would
be really bad.
=============================================================
Mason Jones Charnel Music, Automatism Press
ma...@charnel.com P.O. Box 170277
San Francisco, CA 94117-0277
Phone & Fax 415.664.1829 www.charnel.com
=============================================================
Stig Mathausen
>
> SPElias <spe...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> : Isn't part of the point of noise performance THE VOLUME, so you can feel the
> : music? If you use ear plugs, yes, you are protecting yourself, but you are
> : taking away from the experience/intended effect of the music. Why else must a
> : person play so loud? The same overtones/sonic effects/whatever are now
> : available through technology without the ill effects of high volume on the
> : body.
>
> I find that I can feel the volume physically just fine, while still
> hearing the subtleties of the performance with earplugs in. The effects
> of high-volume noise go beyond hearing, which is one of the interesting
> things about it.
>
> : I submit that high volume is neccessary to produce an effect on the body that
> : is negated/lost with the use of earplugs or other aural "damping". As such
> : noise music becomes simply noise, with little or no real artistic value.
>
> No, it's not negated or lost with the use of earplugs.
Besides, have you noticed with all the high-range white noise dempened, you can
actually talk to others in loud environments without shouting at the top of yr lungs?
Even in loud bars, I always plug my ears manually when talking to others to save my
vocal cords from abuse.
Erik Hoffman
>
> >
> > I once played Masonna for a friend and she got really genuinely terrified
> > and started saying "turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, turn
> > it off, turn it off..." really fast. It was really funny, though she was
> > driving at the time so I made sure to turn it off fast!
> >
> > Anthony / Assume Power Focus
> > http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/1156/apf/apfmain.html
>
> :)! Thanx!for sharing that.That's great.
> an 8-10 morning show I had a few yrs.back.I can still hear the awe
> and confusion in the voice of the girl who called.She was genuinely
> impressed I believe-but I think she may have been a little to shy
> to accept her feelings.Does that make any sense?
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Yeah but are any of you guys getting laid by impressing these gals with
Masonna and Incapcitants?
James and Sean Quirk
> is negated/lost with the use of earplugs or other aural "damping". As such
> noise music becomes simply noise, with little or no real artistic value.
range that fucks your ears up. It doesn't take away from anything at all. It just
saves your ears from being damaged, which, in the end, is more important than
experiencing a sonic extreme.
> physical disability very much. Yet, to this day, I seldom wear ear plugs to
> musical performances. I don't think my "deafness" protects my from the high
> volume and frequencies I listen to (I still suffer from tintinatus (?) for a
> day or so after a loud show). I simply feel that I am not giving the music the
> respect that it deserves by wearing devices that block intended soundwaves from
> reaching my ears/brain.......
I think that if you were to actually suffer from tinnitus, you'd see where I and other
people like me are coming from. It's a very scary thing to have a loud noise in your
ear that won't go away. And I've been obsessed with music from day one, so to lose
the ability to hear what's given me so much happiness is unthinkable to me. When I
realized that I was seriously fucking my hearing up by being silly, I decided to just
take some precautions. Imagine ending up like Pete Townsend or even Beethoven.
Not for me, thanks.
> (I also try to refrain from turning off the stereo/radio/whatever in the middle
> of a song, to avoid having those unfinished musical phrases dangle in the
> sonic atmosphere.)
I hate doing that too. I also never talk over music when I'm doing my radio show.
_That's_ an insult to the artist.
James and Sean Quirk
> (held some up and put them in) - you've been warned." So, I guess I
> was hearing their show as they themselves heard it and intended it to
> be heard.
a feeling that they don't. That has to really hurt after a while.
James and Sean Quirk
> Masonna and Incapcitants?
his tight Merzbow shirt, beckoning to her. Here is real man, she thought, one that
could handle a broken Moog - as well as her trembling body. Her loins ached as he
sat down and ordered a Rolling Rock..."
Woops, sorry.
Rev.Goat
<jqu...@monmouth.com> wrote:
>I was wondering; do you wear earplugs to noise shows?
Nope. And I sometimes think I'm the only one there who doesn't (aside
from the chap who owns Speak in Tongues, who's GOTTA be deaf by now).
At a noise show, earplugs would defeat my purpose, since blocking out
the sound conveys rhythm/vibration only. One of the things I do at
noise shows is, at times, get as close to the ground as I can and shut
my ears off, just letting the vibrations work. It's the variation
thing, you know.
>I can only imagine the
>volumes those guys unleash live, and I think that to stand there for
more than 15
>minutes without some type of protection would be suicide....
Probably. But then, I was in a thrash band for a coupla years... I'm
used to it.
Fr.Goatley
corpse
To me its just common sense to look after your ears.
Who wants to be unable to hear the telephone when they are 40 years old, or have a
constant insane whining inside their head?
Most of us live in a pretty loud society to begin. Big PA systems are incredibly efficent
and powerful at shifting air and are just gonna bash and flatten those delicate hairs in
your inner ear, especially if you stand in front of them for 2 hours. Thats a fact.
If your stare at the sun without sunglasses on a clear day for more than a few seconds it
will begin to burn out your retinas. Thats a fact.
Loud music is exciting and intoxicating, but regular or a single very loud exposure is
gonna fuck your ears. Decent ear plugs will not affect sonic clarity too much.
At really loud volumes everything is distorted, including your ears (i've noticed internal
crunching up of sounds because of loud music) within a few seconds of loud music your ears
are gonna start numbing and contracting to protect themselves so the sound is gonna change
as much with crappy earplugs anyway! 'sonic purity' is bollocks, ears are not unchangeable
reference monitors. Most sound is heard 'through the body' anyhow, especially bass/sub
bass 'ommmph'. Ok some people are in rock bands all their lives and don't suffer too much
damage, otheres are quite the opposite.
Hearing damage can strike later as well, years later sometimes, and infections can cause
problems as well. So 10 years of going to a gig a week and having tinnitus for a day
after (not too hectic an entermainent schedule) could have serious reprocussions later on.
I burst an eardrum recently because of an out-of-the blue infection and a dip in some ones
back yard pool --- blood out my ear, deaf for a month. Rather worrying (its healed up fine
now). You've got to look after them!
My left ear is a bit damaged, using a synth to test hearing (or Sound forge)it cant pick
up stuff as high as the right. Probably goes up to about 16000 hz, whereas the right is
higher. So its been damaged and i don;t feel its been punished very much. Good hearing is
around 20000hz. People with bad tinnitus probably have a headroom way under 10000.
I got a theory that the frequency of the tinnitus tone is the same as headroom freq of the
ears, not sure if that is correct or not, but i;ve noticed the worse your ears are
pummeled the louder and lower in freq the tinnitus tone gets.
Jamie
James and Sean Quirk
He carefully explained to me that there is no known cure for tinnitus. So I thought to
myself, couldn't someone invent a hearing aid-like device that would emit sort of a
"white noise" that could block out the high-pitched whine of the tinnitus? Some
months later I read an article about William Shatner - turns out that he has tinnitus
something horrible. Strangely enough, someone invented that "white noise" hearing
aid, and he uses it. He said it saved him from going nuts and offing himself. So maybe
there will be some sort of treatment for tinnitus down the road.
Dove Family
you don't have the tinnitus the ringing it always at your highest hearing threshold, so you
are used to it and don't notice it. you only notice tinnitus because its a different
frequency than usual. actually it could be argued that we are actually hearing all sorts of
sounds coming from our brain but since its constant, we're used to it and don't really notice
it.
moshi moshi
> Just thought I'd mention: I once went to an ear doctor about the ringing in my ears.
> He carefully explained to me that there is no known cure for tinnitus. So I thought to
Actually there is: corneal implant. But it costs something in the 10k
range. I read an article on H.E.A.R. (i can't remember what the anagram
stands for but it's a musician organization for hearing protection) where
they compared the prices of normal earplugs (5$), pro earplugs (120$) and
corneal implant (10000$)... It made my choice self-evident. They have tons
of useful info and scary stories, maybe they have a web site too.
Think about it, your hearing starts to be permanently damaged at 90db and
typical shows are in the 110db range (in the first few rows, it gets
better after that). A normal conversation is supposed to be at around
60db. They were saying the loudest bands they tested were Dinosaur Jr
(above Ministry et al, they didn't have any noise act in there) at 130db.
A friend of mine went to a djr show and had to leave after 15 minutes. She
was at the other end of the room and her ears hurt...
olivier
moshi moshi
Has Merzbow's book been translated in English? Any info on where to find
it if it has?
thanks,
olivier
Robb Cunningham
>
> In article <35DB98...@monmouth.com>, James and Sean Quirk
> <jqu...@monmouth.com> writes:
>
> >> I do - but I burned my ears out, I'm sorry to say at a '90 ministry
> >> show.
> >Mine got damaged irreversably at a Metallica show in '92. It was very bad for
> >a
> >couple of years, but I have tried to take care of them since, so now it's
> >nominally
> >better.
> >
> >>It was 3 months before my brain acclimated - a really hellish 3
> >> months. Still ringing loudly - I wear plugs when I make noise too.
> >I practice guitar at pretty low volumes, and I always wear plugs when playing
> >with
> >other people or when playing shows. I almost always wear them when I go to
> >concerts now. Anytime that I make noise, I monitor it through headphones at a
> >safe
> >volume. Otherwise I'd be deaf by now, especially with all the feedback
> >sculpting I've
> >done.
>
>
> music? If you use ear plugs, yes, you are protecting yourself, but you are
> taking away from the experience/intended effect of the music. Why else must a
> person play so loud? The same overtones/sonic effects/whatever are now
> available through technology without the ill effects of high volume on the
> body.
high volumes make it difficult and sometimes impossible to appreciate
music. I went to a ministry show without earplugs (which was dumb
but I am one of the lucky ones who was not permanently affected)
and about half the songs I couldn't even tell which song it was unless
I plugged my ears.
>
> I submit that high volume is neccessary to produce an effect on the body that
> is negated/lost with the use of earplugs or other aural "damping".
are you talking about effects on the body or your ears? How can
putting little thingies in your ears change the way your body is
affected by vibrations?
> As such
> noise music becomes simply noise, with little or no real artistic value.
>
for the most part, that's what it already was.
> I'm quite deaf, and I have been since birth. I often wear two hearing aids to
> help me out in work and social situations. I worked with a band for several
> years, mixing sound, before I got my "reinforcements". The band played loud,
> deliberately obnoxious music. It was my job to make it even more obnoxious
> (this was the "second" wave of "punk" circa 1980). This didn't help my
> physical disability very much. Yet, to this day, I seldom wear ear plugs to
> musical performances. I don't think my "deafness" protects my from the high
> volume and frequencies I listen to (I still suffer from tintinatus (?) for a
> day or so after a loud show). I simply feel that I am not giving the music the
> respect that it deserves by wearing devices that block intended soundwaves from
> reaching my ears/brain.......
You choose to give respect to a group of musicians who have no respect
for your faculties by rendering yourself permanently unable to
appreciate their music (or anyone else's) ever again. God you're a
fucking genius.
FlameBoyant
> music. I went to a ministry show without earplugs (which was dumb
You talk about Ministry and appreciating music in the same breath?
Hahahaha! Good one!
> are you talking about effects on the body or your ears? How can
> putting little thingies in your ears change the way your body is
> affected by vibrations?
Earplugs suffucate the high frequencies. Noise without high-end is like
the Olympics without steroids: deferral to built-in human capacities.
Incapacitate those capacities. Blow those ears to hell.
> You choose to give respect to a group of musicians who have no respect
> for your faculties by rendering yourself permanently unable to
> appreciate their music (or anyone else's) ever again.
Not to the musicians. To the music, and therefore to the self. Who gives
a damn about the musicians?
James and Sean Quirk
> Not to the musicians. To the music, and therefore to the self. Who gives
> a damn about the musicians?
Remember those people?
Listening to noise makes you fucking stupid sometimes, jesus christ.
Dadanoise
>> putting little thingies in your ears change the way your body is
>> affected by vibrations?
>
>Earplugs suffucate the high frequencies. Noise without high-end is like
>the Olympics without steroids: deferral to built-in human capacities.
>Incapacitate those capacities. Blow those ears to hell.
>
>> You choose to give respect to a group of musicians who have no respect
>> for your faculties by rendering yourself permanently unable to
>> appreciate their music (or anyone else's) ever again.
>
>a damn about the musicians?
i'm not going to flirt with severe hearing loss to stay true to yr bullshit
aesthetic-wank. i would like to continue to enjoy music, noise, and sound in
general, thank you very much.
i have respect for my "self" enough not fuck my body up any worse than it
already is due to constant exposure to fucked up air, fucked up food, and
fucked up chemicals.
Robb Cunningham
> > You choose to give respect to a group of musicians who have no respect
> > for your faculties by rendering yourself permanently unable to
> > appreciate their music (or anyone else's) ever again.
>
> Not to the musicians. To the music, and therefore to the self.
You missed the second half of my sentence apparently. How does
rendering oneself permanently unable to appreciate music show
respect to either music OR self?
corpse
Dove Family wrote:
> that would make sense because we all actually have a ringing in our ears all the time, but if
> you don't have the tinnitus the ringing it always at your highest hearing threshold, so you
> are used to it and don't notice it. you only notice tinnitus because its a different
> frequency than usual. actually it could be argued that we are actually hearing all sorts of
> sounds coming from our brain but since its constant, we're used to it and don't really notice
> it.
>
this is what i have speculated - is it an established 'fact'?
I;ve heard tinnistus is still not well understood, and it has a lot to do with unconcious
'filters' and stuff, and heard rumours of some therapies trying to retrain train the brain so the
noise get filtered out, which happens all the time as you say.
corpse
James and Sean Quirk wrote:
> Listening to noise makes you fucking stupid sometimes, jesus christ.
LOL!
So true.
I guess there are ear bravado masochists......
corpse
> typical shows are in the 110db range (in the first few rows, it gets
> better after that). A normal conversation is supposed to be at around
> 60db. They were saying the loudest bands they tested were Dinosaur Jr
> (above Ministry et al, they didn't have any noise act in there) at 130db.
fuck ---- that is loud. never been to a gig that loud.decibels are logarythmic, so 130 lbs
is really really powerful.
More than twice as powerful in sound pressure than 100 dbl.
(loudness is more subjective)
forgetting the maths.....
nearly as loud as a gunshot, cept a gunshot lasts a second rather than 1.5 hours!
These loud bands ----- do they cart around their own 'uber' ear shredding PA systems to
venues?
clubs usually have a house system, so its descretition of house enginners how loud bands
are.
Most noise bands i wouldn;t have thought could afford a turbo jet PA system. (though in a
small venue you need less i guess...)