Zion Train and Noise
Zion Train
I am Agent Cod of Zion Train, I am a massive fan of noise. My particular
likes include artists such as Merzbow, Incapacitants, Hyware, Aube,
Kapotte Muziek, Arcane Device, Illusion of Safety, Vivenza, David Tudor,
Gordon Mumma, Gerogerigegege, VOG, Toy Bizarre and labels like Trente
Oiuseaux, Selektion, G.R.O.S.S., Chocolate Monk, RRR, Stomach Ache, Banned
Prods and others similar.
Most often harsh noise with lyrics or obvious guitars does not appeal to
me, voiceless noise will always get my ears. I am admittedly a fan of well
produced and thought out noise and am less patient with lo-fi/poorly
recorded or duplicated noise. The main points which I hoped might be worth
discussing about the article I posted were
a) CD compilations in general - as I am co-compiling one at the moment and
am very interested in what people think. Particularly about poor quality
submissions from 'big' names.
b) the need for patriot symbolism in ANY art/music/drama - How far is it
from 'Japanese American Noise Treaty' to 'Born in the USA' ?
Thge criticism that I set people up to knock them down is unfair. I was
genuinely keen to hear my first Macronympha/Namanax/Cock ESP/Killer Bug
etc because of good things I had read & heard. I am keen to celebrate ANY
great noise I hear. If IN MY OPINION I heard a great Whitehouse track then
I would try and tell the world. My opinions about Joe Macronympha altered
as a result of the dialogue through this newsgroup. Peoples politics don't
specifically matter to their art/music but for me if someone takes a
particular stance they should anticipate inquiry. I would like to lose the
agent provocateur handle in order for the real reason behind these
discussions to come to the fore. I believe that if you seperate the
personal opinion involved in the assesment of the tracks in the CD review
from the general comments surrounding them then the reader can see that
there is real enquiry going on. I believe the opportunity that Ng's offer
to share our thoughts is an important and significant one and any posting
I, or Zion Train in general, make to alt.noise is meant in a spirit of
genuine discussion.
I would prefer the comments I arouse to be constructive, if people really
feel that the postings I have made are not constructive then I will review
my style.
Stig Mathausen
Zion Train wrote:
>
> The main points which I hoped might be worth
> discussing about the article I posted were
> >
> from 'Japanese American Noise Treaty' to 'Born in the USA' ?
>
Although not within the bounds of this group, it's worth pointing out that this is a
spurious slippery slope - "Born in the USA" is certainly not a jingoistic song. Read the
lyrics.
Besides, recognising and basing work upon the existance of countries and nationalities in
art is, in and of itself, by no means jingoistic/xenophobic - which is the context I
assume you speak of 'patriotism' in, otherwise it would not be a sticking point.
Zion Train
You are right but I was refering to those who use it in ignorance, a point
I didn't make clear. Is there a point to what I'm attempting to discuss or
Not ?
-{#}- Rev. Matthew A. Carey
>me, voiceless noise will always get my ears. I am admittedly a fan of well
>produced and thought out noise and am less patient with lo-fi/poorly
>recorded or duplicated noise.
Personally, all my noise is recorded on crappy, glitchy equipment.
It's only because I don't have a lot of money to spend on these
things. I work hard to make the sound come out as good as I can, and
still keep some of the magic of spontanaety. However, you can still
tell that I'm not recording on DAT in an expensive studio with nice
keyboards, microphones and tape decks-- although I wish I could. I'm
just not lucky enough to be able to afford it.
I think lo-fi noise is as valid as any other kind. Especially
considering that it is much more populist. Anyone who wants to can
work at the lo-fi level.
Rev. Carey Experimental sound
PO Box 594 only $3 a tape!
Arcata, CA http://www.rlabs.com/visiontemple
95518 USA
Stig Mathausen
-{#}- Rev. Matthew A. Carey wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 20:46:01 +0000, zion...@onelove.demon.co.uk
> (Zion Train) wrote:
>
> >me, voiceless noise will always get my ears. I am admittedly a fan of well
> >produced and thought out noise and am less patient with lo-fi/poorly
> >recorded or duplicated noise.
>
> Personally, all my noise is recorded on crappy, glitchy equipment.
> It's only because I don't have a lot of money to spend on these
> things. I work hard to make the sound come out as good as I can, and
> still keep some of the magic of spontanaety. However, you can still
> tell that I'm not recording on DAT in an expensive studio with nice
> keyboards, microphones and tape decks-- although I wish I could. I'm
> just not lucky enough to be able to afford it.
>
> I think lo-fi noise is as valid as any other kind. Especially
> considering that it is much more populist. Anyone who wants to can
> work at the lo-fi level.
>
and besides, in this genre, harsh recording techniques often work to the benefit of the
sound! For ex, Agt Cod slammed Namanax for the harsh sound quality of their "Jap/US"
contribution, while I thought the harsh lo-fi sound worked totally to the track's
benefit.
I also record on old, cruddy equipment out of financial necessity, and sometimes, too,
the dropouts and glitches enhance the tracks in unforseen ways. Can't get those random
blessings (and certainly curses too) when you're going direct to DAT.
Joe Colley
although being purposely lo-fi is no badge of honor in itself.
i'm quite sure you could rustle up some better equipment if
making noise was really really important to you..
there are plenty of ways to make shit sound fucked up without mastering
onto a crappy tape deck.
at least with dat you can tell how much of the noise you made and how much
was already there...
just some thoughts
-joe / crawl unit / povertech industries etc
"sucks shit through a japan shaped straw" -zion train
-----
Experimental Media Research Laboratory, Northern California
For more Information, http://emrl.com or email IN...@EMRL.COM.
Zion Train
> I also record on old, cruddy equipment out of financial necessity, and
sometimes, too,
> the dropouts and glitches enhance the tracks in unforseen ways. Can't
get those random
> blessings (and certainly curses too) when you're going direct to DAT.
That is neither true nor the point I made. My problem is not in the
creation but the mastering. I punish different circuits to create harsh
distortion, I use ductaphones, contact mics, tape decks and toy recorders,
I employ digital glitches as well as analogue noise. I also want to make
clear that I do enjoy Lo-fi but like diversity as well. My current
favourite is a cassette by Lucas, who appeared on the America Salutes
Merzbow Comp which is a lo-fi as you like but it is brilliant. The fault
for me lies with Mason Jones more than the artists, I feel that the
compilers job is to create a rounded listening experience and more could
have been done with the Comp I reviewed.
Stig Mathausen
Namanax and the Htaers, if I remember correctly, was the recording quality. No argument on the
hit-and-miss mastering job, though - going from the loud 'n' clear Merzbow track to the relative
silence of ThirdOrgan is unnecessarily jarring, regardless of what one might think of the tracks
themselves. and there were a couple of significant clunkers on the Jap/USA comp - no names
mentioned!
Jason A. Stiener
whoops! I realized that I forgot to leave my address with that last
post. it's: wor...@oitunix.oit.umass.edu
ken/blindspot noise recordings
po box 247
bellingham, ma 02019
rsta...@acsu.buffalo.edu
Well, i'n not in proper flaming form lately-- but i don't think
the Japanese-American Noise Treaty review was even remotely constructive.
To try and be constructive, i think it would useful first and
formeost to put almost all of your emphasis on "objective" descriptions of
the material and little if any on evaluating the piece-- if i haven't heard
it, "Crawl Unit sucks shit through a japan-shaped straw" is a content-free
statement--
Which leads to the rest of the problem-- placing them piece in a
meaningful and relevant critical context... instead of evaluating a piece
by your own rather amorphous, incoherent and often tangential standards,
ask how the piece rates graded according to the artist's own criteria for
quality perhaps... or according to the rest of their recorded output so
that a fan of that knows whether to pursue the new work whether you individually
care for it or not...
Whatever you choose to do, it helps to make your criteria explicit
and apply them consistently... otherwise the result is nonsense and of no
utility whatsoever(unless, of course, that is your intention)-- so that
by the Zion Train school of criticism "Arcane Device suck because the
Incapacitants shit all over that weak shit, the cover art is ugly,
and the music is readily available to anyone at a reasonable price..."
corey...@yahoo.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ2zRaN9JFk