Stefanovski - Gipsy Song
Pedja
Sutka I Topana imaet edna mana sto ne sevo idnina
Za da videt grisna sto e toa zivot do vesela dolina
Ja sum setal,ja sum bil na zapad duri do germanija
Za dajnadjem parce leb za mene I za mojata familija
Ej da imam ko sto nemam pa da kupam bel konj
I da javam de nje noce,I na jave,I na jave I na son
Seko od nas ima svoja zvezda sto ga prati dure ziv
Koga sveti ako covek ima sreca koga gasne sudbina
Ej da imam kosto nemam ce ti kupam krevet
Za da spijes ti so mene iljada,iljada I jedna noc.
Zhivko Apostolovski
"Pedja" <pedj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:es4up7$lhh$1...@ss408.t-com.hr...
> Neka dobra dusa da mi prevede text na srp.-hrv. please:
Kolku go znaesh angliskiot? Mozham da ti prevedam na angliski (kje probam i
na "srpsko-hrvatski", posle nekolku dena)
Pozdrav,
Zhivko
Spirit of Truth
"Zhivko Apostolovski" <zhi...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:45e7...@news.comindico.com.au...
Well this is the the truth:
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."
from: Spirit of Truth
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
++
>"Pedja" <pedj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:es4up7$lhh$1...@ss408.t-com.hr...
>
>
>>Neka dobra dusa da mi prevede text na srp.-hrv. please:
>>
>>
>
>Kolku go znaesh angliskiot? Mozham da ti prevedam na angliski (kje probam i
>na "srpsko-hrvatski", posle nekolku dena)
>
>
Zhivko,
The last time I studied Serbian, it was thirty years ago, with a priest
who had a number of concepts like Bosnian, Croatian, Bulgarian,
Macedonian and Montenegrin were all the same language. One time he gave
us a Macedonian poem to translate and accompanied it with a vacabulary
which listed literally every word including conjunctions alphebetically
and had a bunch of notes on the peculiar "Old Serbian" usages. What a
riot! He was also maintaining that the mid 20th century "Old Serbian"
poet was kind of primitive which is why all his case ending were
"missing" or off. I am now remembering tons of stuff I have thrown away
that I wish I had kept. Macedonia/Macedonian deniers and their
literature and artifacts will quite soon be collectible.
>Pozdrav,
>
>Zhivko
>
>
>>Sutka I Topana imaet edna mana sto ne sevo idnina
>>Za da videt grisna sto e toa zivot do vesela dolina
>>Ja sum setal,ja sum bil na zapad duri do germanija
>>Za dajnadjem parce leb za mene I za mojata familija
>>
>>
The song is intriguing . The last part, "I have been in the West for a
long time in Germany in order to make a piece of bread for myself and
for my family " seems to imply that this is a guestworker song.
>>Ej da imam ko sto nemam pa da kupam bel konj
>>
>>
But this line "But I haven't even got anything with which to buy a
decent (good) horse, seems to imply a kind of old song
>>I da javam de nje noce,I na jave,I na jave I na son
>>
>>Seko od nas ima svoja zvezda sto ga prati dure ziv
>>
>>
"Each of us has his own star that guides (makes) a hard life" (????)
>>Koga sveti ako covek ima sreca koga gasne sudbina
>>
>>Ej da imam kosto nemam ce ti kupam krevet
>>Za da spijes ti so mene iljada,iljada I jedna noc.
>>
>>
>>
In order to see you with me a thousand, a thousand and one nights.
It's a cool song and I would like the translations, too (and the melody
is you have it)
G
Zhivko Apostolovski
Ako seushte (josh) imate problem (ne razumete neka rec) javete se pak. Ova
mi e prv ispit po "srpsko-hrvatski" od pred 40 godini :-)
Pozdrav od Wollongong, Australia, kade shto ima mnogu Makedonci, a ima i
dosta Hrvati.
Zhivko
"Pedja" <pedj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:es4up7$lhh$1...@ss408.t-com.hr...
> Neka dobra dusa da mi prevede text na srp.-hrv. please:
>
> Sutka I Topaana imaat edna mana sto ne se vo idnina
Sutka i Topaana (naselbi na Skopje) imaju jednu manu shta ne su vo buducnost
> Za da videt grisna sto e toa zivot do vesela dolina
Za da vidu grisna? (nema vakov rech na makedonski) shta je to vesela dolina
> Ja sum setal, ja sum bil na "Zapad" duri do Germanija
Ja sam setao, ja sam bio na "Zapad" dur(?) do Njemacku
> Za da najdam parce leb za mene I za mojata familija
Za da nadjem parce hljeb za mene i za moju familiju
>
> Ej, da imam ko sto nemam pa da kupam bel konj
Ej, da imam kak sto nemam, pa da kupim beli konj
> I da javam denje noce, i na jave, i na jave I na son
I da jaham denom, nocjom, i vistinski i na san
>
> Sekoj od nas ima svoja dzvezda sto go prati dur e ziv
Svaki od nas ima svoju zvezdu sta ga prati dok je ziv
> Koga sveti, ako covek ima sreca, koga gasne, sudbina
Kad sveti, ako covek ima sreca, kad gasne, sudbina
>
> Ej, da imam ko sto nemam, ce ti kupam krevet
Ej, da imam kak sto nemam, kupi cu ti krevet
> Za da spijes ti so mene iljada, iljada i edna noc.
Za da spavash ti sa mnom hiljadu, hiljadu i jedna noc
>
>
Ordog, Szandor
> Mojot prevod na "srpsko-hrvatski" (so popravki na vashiot makedonski).
> Ako seushte (josh) imate problem (ne razumete neka rec) javete se pak. Ova
> mi e prv ispit po "srpsko-hrvatski" od pred 40 godini :-)
First exam in serbian/croatian in 40 years? Hmm let's see your
work ...
> Pozdrav od Wollongong, Australia, kade shto ima mnogu Makedonci, a ima i
> dosta Hrvati.
Are you all down in Australia here so crazy and ultranationalistic?
Serbs, Croats, Macedons, Greeks, Bulgarians ... ? :)
>> Sutka I Topaana imaat edna mana sto ne se vo idnina
> Sutka i Topaana (naselbi na Skopje) imaju jednu manu shta ne su vo buducnost
Hrv: Sutka i Topaana imaju jednu manu što nisu u budućnosti
Srb: Sutka i Topaana imaju jednu manu šta nisu u budućnosti
Eng: Sutka i Topaana have one fault - they are not in future
>> Za da videt grisna sto e toa zivot do vesela dolina
> Za da vidu grisna? (nema vakov rech na makedonski) shta je to vesela dolina
Hrv: Da vide (griješni?) što je to vesela dolina
Srb: Da vide (grešni?) šta je to vesela dolina
Eng: To see (sinful?) what is a happy valley
>> Ja sum setal, ja sum bil na "Zapad" duri do Germanija
> Ja sam setao, ja sam bio na "Zapad" dur(?) do Njemacku
Hrv: Ja sam šetao, ja sam bio na "Zapadu" sve do Njemačke
Srb: Ja sam šetao, ja sam bio na "Zapadu" sve do Nemačke
Eng: I had been walking, I had been on the "West" all the way to
Germany
>> Za da najdam parce leb za mene I za mojata familija
> Za da nadjem parce hljeb za mene i za moju familiju
Hrv: Da pronađem komad kruha za mene i za moju obitelj
Srb: Da nađem parče hleba za mene i za moju familiju
Eng: To find peace of bread for me and for my family
>> Ej, da imam ko sto nemam pa da kupam bel konj
> Ej, da imam kak sto nemam, pa da kupim beli konj
Hrv: Ej, da imam k'o (kao) što nemam, pa da kupim bijelog konja
Srb: Ej, da imam ko što nemam, pa da kupim belog konja
Eng: Eh, if I have what I don't have, so to buy white horse
>> I da javam denje noce, i na jave, i na jave I na son
> I da jaham denom, nocjom, i vistinski i na san
Hrv: I da jašem danju noću, i na javi, i na javi i u snu
Srb: same as Hrv.
Eng: and to ride day and night, on java, on java and in the dream
>> Sekoj od nas ima svoja dzvezda sto go prati dur e ziv
> Svaki od nas ima svoju zvezdu sta ga prati dok je ziv
Hrv: Svatko od nas ima svoju zvijezdu što ga prati dok je živ
Srb: Svako od nas ima svoju zvezdu šta ga prati dok je živ
Eng: Everyone of us has it's star which is following him until he is
alive
>> Koga sveti, ako covek ima sreca, koga gasne, sudbina
> Kad sveti, ako covek ima sreca, kad gasne, sudbina
Hrv: Kad 'sveti' (what? - dawning?), ako čovjek ima sreće, kad
umire(?),
sudbina
Srb: Kad 'sveti' (what? - dawning?), ako čovek ima sreće, kad
umire(?),
sudbina
Eng: When 'sveti' (dawning?), if man has a luck, when dying(?),
destiny
>> Ej, da imam ko sto nemam, ce ti kupam krevet
> Ej, da imam kak sto nemam, kupi cu ti krevet
Hrv: Ej, da imam k'o što nemam, kupit ću ti krevet
Srb: Ej, da imam k'o što nemam, kupit ću ti krevet
Eng: Eh, if I have what I don't have, I will buy you a bed
>> Za da spijes ti so mene iljada, iljada i edna noc.
> Za da spavash ti sa mnom hiljadu, hiljadu i jedna noc
Hrv: Da spavaš ti sa mnom tisuću, tisuću i jednu noć
Srb: Da spavaš ti samnom hiljadu, hiljadu i jednu noć
Eng: To sleep with me, thousand, thousand and one night
Nice song, specially music with gipsy atmosphere. So we are missing
some words yet. Also we don't have Greek, Romanian, Albanian and
Turkish translation yet.
Very bad dear colleague, very bad. You are missing and/or badly
forming cases (specially genitive, dative and accusative) in Serbian
and/or Croatian. Also, you do not have proper vocabulary. Please come
to next written exam, you did not pass this one.
Spirit of Truth
"Zhivko Apostolovski" <zhi...@23895bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:45e9...@news.comindico.com.au...
Silly.
Pedja
Samovila
Samovila
Macedonian text is incorrect.
The correct lyrics to the song are:
Sutka i Topana imaat edna maana sto ne se vo Indija
Za da vidi Krisna sto e toa zivot na vesela dolina
Jas sum setal, jas sum bil na zapad duri do Germanija
Za da najdam parce leb za mene i za mojata familija
E da imam ko sto nemam pa da kupam bel konj
i da javam denje nokje i na jave, i na jave i na son
Sekoj od nas ima svoja dzvezda sto go prati dur e ziv
koga sveti jako covek ima srekja koga gasne -sudbina
E da imam ko sto nemam pa da kupam bel konj
i da javam denje nokje, i na jave, i na jave i na son
E da imam ko sto nemam kje ti kupam krevet
za da spies ti so mene iljada i, iljada i edna nokj
> Hrv: I da jašem danju noću, i na javi, i na javi i u snu
> Srb: same as Hrv.
> Eng: and to ride day and night, on java, on java and in the dream
Hmmm, to quote something I recently read, though slightly modified to
fit the occasion:
> Very bad dear colleague, very bad. You are missing and/or badly
> forming translations in ENGLISH. Also, you do not have proper vocabulary. Please come
> to next written exam, you did not pass this one.
I'm assuming you probably use English more often than Zhivko uses
Serbo-Croat (at least more often that once in the last 40 years?)
I would certainly suggest some tutoring and review before your next
"exam," or at least put yourself under a microscope and view your own
weaknesses before examining others'.
So....
SVETI does not mean "dawning." Since when do stars "dawn" anyway?
Stars shine, they sparkle, they twinkle, etc.; so, in this case, the
proper English interpretation would be:
Sekoj od nas ima svoja dzvezda sto go prati dur e ziv
Eng: Every one of us has his own star that follows him through life
koga sveti jako covek ima srekja koga gasne -sudbina
Eng: When it shines brightly, man is lucky. When it goes out - it's
fate.
In other words, the shining star represents life itself so man is
lucky while his star shines brightly and when the star's light will go
out is a matter of fate (i.e., fate determines when a man will die).
Anyhow, I hope the "proper" lyrics will allow for better translation
into Serbo-Croat if it is still needed. I wish I would have caught it
sooner, before everyone worked so hard on their contributions.
Cheers!
Ordog, Szandor
> BOTH translations are incorrect, primarily because the original
> Macedonian text is incorrect.
Then this explains confusion. But then, question arises: why Zivko
didn't noticed that? He is also (Slavic) Macedonian right?
> The correct lyrics to the song are:
> Sutka i Topana imaat edna maana sto ne se vo Indija
> Za da vidi Krisna sto e toa zivot na vesela dolina
Aha! "in India", this is something completely different from "future".
> Jas sum setal, jas sum bil na zapad duri do Germanija
What does "duri" means here? It isn't obvious from the context.
>> Very bad dear colleague, very bad. You are missing and/or badly
>> forming translations in ENGLISH. Also, you do not have proper vocabulary. Please come
>> to next written exam, you did not pass this one.
> I'm assuming you probably use English more often than Zhivko uses
> Serbo-Croat (at least more often that once in the last 40 years?)
Yes, mainly in written form.
> I would certainly suggest some tutoring and review before your next
> "exam," or at least put yourself under a microscope and view your own
> weaknesses before examining others'.
But Zivko said he was on exam of Serbian/Croatian. I didn't said that
for English. :)
> SVETI does not mean "dawning." Since when do stars "dawn" anyway?
It was not obvious from the context! "koga sveti" invokes "koga sveti
(osvećuje)" (eng: ... whose/whom revenge/revenging ...) or it can mean
"saint" (as in 'Sveti Petar') ... it was not very intuitive that
'sveti' means 'svjetli' (srb: svetli, eng: shines).
> Anyhow, I hope the "proper" lyrics will allow for better translation
> into Serbo-Croat if it is still needed.
No need. Except "duri do Germanija" (duri?) everything else is clear
now. First (Slavic) Macedonian text is incorrect.
> I wish I would have caught it
> sooner, before everyone worked so hard on their contributions.
Ok, now we can have Arab or Hungarian translation. :)
Samovila
> Samovila wrote:
> > BOTH translations are incorrect, primarily because the original
> > Macedonian text is incorrect.
>
> Then this explains confusion. But then, question arises: why Zivko
> didn't noticed that? He is also (Slavic) Macedonian right?
>
How would Zivko know if the text was incorrect if he doesn't know the
song? How would he know that "idnina" is supposed to be "Indija" if
he'd never heard the song before?
> > The correct lyrics to the song are:
> > Sutka i Topana imaat edna maana sto ne se vo Indija
> > Za da vidi Krisna sto e toa zivot na vesela dolina
>
> Aha! "in India", this is something completely different from "future".
>
> > Jas sum setal, jas sum bil na zapad duri do Germanija
>
> What does "duri" means here? It isn't obvious from the context.
"Duri" here means the same as "duri" anywhere else.
So... "I have traveled, I have been to the West as far as
Germany" ("seta" has a broad meaning. it can be walk, wander,
travel... in this case he means he traveled, not walked, all the way
to Germany)
>
> >> Very bad dear colleague, very bad. You are missing and/or badly
> >> forming translations in ENGLISH. Also, you do not have proper vocabulary. Please come
> >> to next written exam, you did not pass this one.
> > I'm assuming you probably use English more often than Zhivko uses
> > Serbo-Croat (at least more often that once in the last 40 years?)
>
> Yes, mainly in written form.
>
> > I would certainly suggest some tutoring and review before your next
> > "exam," or at least put yourself under a microscope and view your own
> > weaknesses before examining others'.
>
> But Zivko said he was on exam of Serbian/Croatian. I didn't said that
> for English. :)
>
Perhaps. :) But he didn't ask you to critique and correct it, just
like you didn't ask me.
(And... if your English experience is mostly in written form, then I
am sorry to inform you that the two sentence you wrote above are
incorrectly composed. :)
> > SVETI does not mean "dawning." Since when do stars "dawn" anyway?
>
> It was not obvious from the context! "koga sveti" invokes "koga sveti
> (osveauje)" (eng: ... whose/whom revenge/revenging ...) or it can mean
> "saint" (as in 'Sveti Petar') ... it was not very intuitive that
> 'sveti' means 'svjetli' (srb: svetli, eng: shines).
>
You say it's "Not obvious from the context!" That's pretty emphatic,
exclamation point and all. Let's look at it more closely and see how
"obvious" from the context it really is, shall we? :) In Serbo-Croat,
"koga" does mean whose/whom but, in Macedonian, it means "when."
"Sveti" is not the same as, nor is derived from, "osvetuva
se" (revenge). Stars are pretty basic entities and do very little
other than shine. I've certainly never known a star to become a saint
or to seek revenge. Thus, when you look at the context in
relationship to a star, it would be ridiculous to even try to say
"hmm, intuitively it might mean revenge, it might mean dawning, it
might mean a saint..."
>
> Ok, now we can have Arab or Hungarian translation. :)
We could, but the original poster didn't ask for that. :)
Maybe we can just find another song?
Cheers!
Zhivko Apostolovski
"Ordog, Szandor" <ordogs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172958199....@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Zhivko Apostolovski wrote:
> Mojot prevod na "srpsko-hrvatski" (so popravki na vashiot makedonski).
> Ako seushte (josh) imate problem (ne razumete neka rec) javete se pak. Ova
> mi e prv ispit po "srpsko-hrvatski" od pred 40 godini :-)
First exam in serbian/croatian in 40 years? Hmm let's see your
work ...
> Pozdrav od Wollongong, Australia, kade shto ima mnogu Makedonci, a ima i
> dosta Hrvati.
Are you all down in Australia here so crazy and ultranationalistic?
Crazy? Ultranationalistic?
What are you blabbering about?
In relation to your comments about my "bad translation", I (accent on I) am
not surprised one iota, since, as I have explained this previously, it was
the first time since my LIMITED primary school studies of "serbocroatian",
that I had to think about, or practice "serbocroatian". My native (mother)
language is MACEDONIAN and my second "native" for the past 40 years has been
the english, but somehow for you, stupidly, that does not matter.
Also, in relation to your comments in your reply to "Samovila", it is
plainly obvious that I am not familiar with that particular song. Just
because I am of Macedonian origins (you can shove your "slavic" where it is
most unconfortable for you :-)), it does not automatically mean that I
should know that particular Macedonian song. You, despite your gramatically
correct translation, have failed the intelligence test badly, my dear
colleague :-(.
Next time engage your brain before you start typing ludicrous messages.
Zhivko Apostolovski
Nice to hear from you again:-).
The song in question is not "an old" song, since it is written by (someone
from) "Leb i Sol", one of the most popular rock bands in former Yugoslavia.
They have remained the premier Macedonian rock band, and in the past few
months had a very successful "comeback" tour throughout former Yugoslavia. I
am not familiar with this particular song, since my interests lie primarily
with the Macedonian folk music. "Leb i Sol" have great instrumentals of some
of the famous old Macedonian folk songs, such as Jovano Jovanke; Aber dojde
Donke; Uchi me majko, karaj me, etc. They, as all "good Macedonian
"Yugoslavs"" :-(, have recorded numerous songs in the "yugoslav"
("serbo-croatian") language, as well.
Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism about the deniers of
Macedonia/Macedonian. Not until the common criminals and odrodi with whom
the Macedonian government and its institutions are infested, are purged out.
Pozdrav,
Zhivko
"++" <sp...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:FK2dneja-f7USXTY...@rcn.net...
++
>Hello Galina,
>
>Nice to hear from you again:-).
>
>The song in question is not "an old" song, since it is written by (someone
>from) "Leb i Sol", one of the most popular rock bands in former Yugoslavia.
>They have remained the premier Macedonian rock band, and in the past few
>months had a very successful "comeback" tour throughout former Yugoslavia. I
>am not familiar with this particular song, since my interests lie primarily
>with the Macedonian folk music. "Leb i Sol" have great instrumentals of some
>of the famous old Macedonian folk songs, such as Jovano Jovanke; Aber dojde
>Donke; Uchi me majko, karaj me, etc. They, as all "good Macedonian
>"Yugoslavs"" :-(, have recorded numerous songs in the "yugoslav"
>("serbo-croatian") language, as well.
>
>Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism about the deniers of
>Macedonia/Macedonian. Not until the common criminals and odrodi with whom
>the Macedonian government and its institutions are infested, are purged out.
>
>
>Pozdrav,
>
>Zhivko
>
Hi, Zhivko,
I have heard a lot of Leb i Sol and am not a fan. I, too, prefer the
old music.And these lyrics, as improved by Samovila, who actually knows
the song, are similar to something like an old city song. I liked the
song even more, though , when she brought up the gypsy elements, like
India and etc. It would be cool to hear it.
As for Leb i Sol writing in Bosno-Croato-Srb, all I can say is that they
know their marketing base.
Nikolaj
> Zhivko Apostolovski wrote:
>
>> Hello Galina,
Hi, both of you.
The song is from Vlatko Stefanovski's soundtrack for the movie 'Gipsy
Magic'. There is another version of the song on the album in some Roma
language. The Macedonian version of the song can me downloaded from his
home page: http://www.vlatkostefanovski.com.mk/ -> mp3's -> gipsy magic.mp3
The movie of course speaks about the Roma population (and not
guestworkers). See the comments of imdb for more details
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130752/#comment) -- or maybe you shoudn't
if you haven't seen the movie yet...
Leb i sol was a ground breaking group in ex-Yu. They played the
progressive rock and jazz fusion almost at the same time as the
legendary groups of the world format like John McLaughlin's Mahavishnu
Orchestra and similar. Of course this applies only to first few albums,
later they became more pop and commercial, I am a fan of the early
material...
A few videos of Stefanovski with Tadić (all traditional Macedonian songs
AFAIK):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2mt_hSdWd0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oowKwuxWvbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvIxz7-xio
and Leb i sol from the recent tour:
Samovila
> ++ pravi:
>
> > Zhivko Apostolovski wrote:
>
> >> Hello Galina,
>
> Hi, both of you.
>
> The song is from Vlatko Stefanovski's soundtrack for the movie 'Gipsy
> Magic'. There is another version of the song on the album in some Roma
> language. The Macedonian version of the song can me downloaded from his
>
> The movie of course speaks about the Roma population (and not
> guestworkers). See the comments of imdb for more details
> (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130752/#comment) -- or maybe you shoudn't
> if you haven't seen the movie yet...
>
> Leb i sol was a ground breaking group in ex-Yu. They played the
> progressive rock and jazz fusion almost at the same time as the
> legendary groups of the world format like John McLaughlin's Mahavishnu
> Orchestra and similar. Of course this applies only to first few albums,
> later they became more pop and commercial, I am a fan of the early
> material...
>
> A few videos of Stefanovski with Tadić (all traditional Macedonian songs
> AFAIK):
>
Thanks for sharing the links with everyone, Nikolaj.
For everyone else, Vlatko Stefanovski isn't really involved with Leb i
Sol anymore. They do occasional "reunion" concerts and short tours
but he is primarily solo these days, engaging in collaborations with
various other musicians such as Tadic. The style of music he
currently plays is quite different from that of the Leb i Sol bygone
era. These days. most of what he does is an acoustic interpration of
the old traditional Macedonian songs and ora with elements of modern
jazz. Personally, I prefer the music he's done post-Lebi Sol and I'm
not a huge fan of his Gypsy Song, I just happen to know it. I much
prefer his easy listening acoustic interpretations of songs like
"Kalajdzisko Oro," "Dafino Vino Crveno," "More Cico Rece Da Me Zeni,"
etc.
I had the opportunity to see him perform (with Tadic) at a Balkans
Jazz festival that was held in an old castle up in the German alps.
It was a fantastic performance and the small audience (about 150
people) was mostly German. After the performance we went up to him to
say hello and praise the performance and he seemed quite surprised
that a small group of us Macedonians (and one Croatian) were there...
something to the effect of "Kaj me najdovte ovde, u p**** m*******...
kraj na svetot ovde u alpite u p**** m*******..." Other than the
frequent "u PMs" he was quite pleasant, gave us autographs, had drinks
with us, let us take photos, etc.
So, some of you who weren't fans of Leb i Sol might want to check out
some of his newer pieces. You may change your minds :)
Cheers!
++
Yes, thanks again to Nikolaj for the links. I have a couple of Vlatko
Stefanovski tapes and they are like you say, guitar, voice, kinda sorta
folksie. I don't have the gypsy song.
As for the Piz...ma....stuff, remember, it's SERBIAN. It's kind of sad
that a Macedonian like him has to pepper his speech with a lot of
Serbian. Can't he cuss in Macedonian?
Wow, the castle in Germany concert....some elect group you must have
been with!
Zhivko Apostolovski
music. Actually my favourite "Leb i Sol" song is called "Ako ljubish dukati"
(dukat is a gold coin). And, as "Samovila" has mentioned in one of her
messages, Vlatko Stefanovski, their lead guitarist, has produced some very
nice "modern" instrumentals of some of the old folk classics, since the
demise of the band.
> As for Leb i Sol writing in Bosno-Croato-Srb, all I can say is that they
> know their marketing base.
Yes, especially when Macedonia was almost totally "serbianised" when it
comes to music listening. This "serbianisation" is still very much actual
with most Macedonians from RoM.
Spirit of Truth
Silly.
You only have to look here to see that the Fyrom
Slavic majority are simply West Bulgarians
and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:
"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."
And here:
Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......
http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html
Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).
And here:
For fair use only.
http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...
...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.
... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...
Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.
The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"
Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV
This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "
And here:
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm
http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm
And finally here
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm
http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid
Spirit of Truth
Please don't post your propaganda in this Greek Ng., Bulgar.
You only have to look here to see that the Fyrom
Slavic majority are simply West Bulgarians like yourself
Spirit of Truth
Zhivko Apostolovski
Skopjani can't speak proper macedonian :-). That is what we Bitolchani
think, anyway (and tell them so constantly, especially at football matches
in Bitola: "go back to Skopje and learn to speak macedonian") :-).
In 1990 I flew from Belgrade to Ohrid, via a Skopje. It was a 7.10 flight on
a Monday mornig. All of the internal yugoslavian destinations from Belgrade
(eg, Zagreb, Ljubljana, Sarajevo, Split etc, etc), except for Skopje, had
between two and four passengers. The Skopje plane, DC9, except for four
"foreigners" (myself, a couple from Melbourne and a man from Canada) was
full of Serbians and from what I remember, all males in a three-piece suit
and tie attire and all carrying executive briefcases. All of them
disembarked at Skopje airport. It was then that I really grasped the gravity
(power) of the Serbian influence over Macedonia (especially its capital
Skopje) and that apart from the macedonian language being taught in the
schools, not much had changed in Macedonia since its Serbian occupation in
1912. Macedonia had remained a serbian puppet colony in all other critical
aspects of life until its independence.
The above gives you a clearer picture why Vlatko's "colouful" language is
peppered so much with serbianisms. That is the "standard skopski govor",
unfortunately.
Skopjani have also "gypsy" dialectical mannerisms in their "macedonian"
speech (speak very similar to the way the roma speak in macedonian).
Unfortunately, due to nepotism, the macedonian TV and radio stations,
nowadays are rife with commentators, presenters and newsreaders from Skopje,
who can't speak proper macedonian.
Pozdrav,
Zhivko
Spirit of Truth
> Skopjani can't speak proper macedonian :-). That is what we Bitolchani
> think, anyway (and tell them so constantly, especially at football matches
> in Bitola: "go back to Skopje and learn to speak macedonian") :-).
You are not funny, Bulgar.
Silly.
You only have to look here to see that the Fyrom
Slavic majority are simply West Bulgarians
and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes: