Data of a Macedonian immigrant at Ellis Island, 1907
WolfWolf
Ellis Island ship's manifest transcription
Surname: Kriston
Given Name: Nicola
Page / Line of Manifest: 532 / 11
Date of Arrival at Ellis Island: Apr. 17, 1907
Name of Ship: New Amsterdam
Age at Arrival: 28
Gender: M
Married / Single: M
Occupation: laborer
Nationality (Country of residence): Turkey
Race / People: Macedonian
Last Permanent Residence: Velusin (?), Turkey
Name of family / friend in old country:
Final Destination: Kane, PA
Ever been in U. S. before? When? 1903-06, Chicago, IL
Going to join friend / family in North America? friend
Who / Where? Alanas Meesef, Kane, PA
Place of birth: Velusin, Turkey
Notes:
http://www.geocities.com/kristonfamily/Kriston_Nicola_1907.html
Dorian West
for the Turks and Slavs to fear tiny Greece, yet that tiny country is a
vast, blood soaked graveyard for your vile races of Asiatics and wannabe
Europeans.
1. Why did the Yugoslavs rename their province Vardaska, adjoining the Greek
province of Macedonia, to Makedonija (Macedonia in English) on 2nd August
1944? In addition, why did they consider it necessary to kill almost 200,000
Greeks in their failed 1944-49 effort of conquering Greece and especially
the beloved Greek province of Macedonia - the Heart of Greece?
2. Why did the written language of these Yugoslav-Makedonijans first appear
after 2 August 1944?
3. The Macedonians conquered lands in 3 continents as Rome and England (5)
did. The Greek language was used in ALL inscriptions and writings in the
areas controlled by Macedonia, just like Latin and English was used in the
lands conquered by the Romans and English. Why would non-Greeks solely use
Greek and why has there not been even ONE Greek writing with the typical
Slavic endings of "ov" and "ski"? Why is EVERYTHING in Greek? What kind of
conquerors spread a so-called enemy language and culture?
4. Why is it that ancient and modern Macedonian names like Alexandros,
Philippos, Krateros, Ptolemaios, Kleopatra, Cassander, Thessaloniki,
Antipater and Macedonia are Greek?
5. Why is it that after 700 years of the ancient Macedonian state's
existence, tens of thousands of writers from every class wrote only in
Greek?
6. Why did the leader of Yugoslavia Josif Broz Tito, a communist-atheist,
give the newly created province of Makedonija a new Church? What kind of
people accepts a newly created church from an avowed and rabid atheist?
7. Why did the heretical church mentioned above, change the text of the Old
Testament prophet Daniel's prophesy to read the "Macedonian king" rather
than "the Greek king"? Daniel prophesied the rise and death of the Greek
king, Alexander the Great, and stated that his kingdom would be divided into
4 parts among his 4 generals (Dan. 8th Chapter). One of these 4 generals
headed the Syrian Kingdom and would desecrate the temple. "Yea, he magnified
himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was
taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down (Dan. 8:11)."
8. Why do a large majority of Yugoslav-Makedonijans not speak the official
language at home, but speak Bulgarian instead? Why do Bulgarians and
Yugoslav-Makedonijans fully understand each other? No interpreter needed!
9. Why is that NOT ONE Yugoslav-Makedonijan knows any Macedonian history,
the kind taught in schools in universities all over the world, including
such esteemed institutions as Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, UCLA, London,
Rome, Paris, Heidelberg, Vienna, Edinburgh and Dublin et al?
10. Why can all Greek speakers read all ancient Macedonian coins,
inscriptions and writings and no Yugoslav-Makedonijan can do so, unless he
is learned in Greek, of course?
11. Why can't the Yugoslav-Makedonijans pronounce the name of the capitol
city of Macedonia, Thessaloniki? Why can't they even pronounce the sound
"th" which is prevalent in all Macedonian writings from antiquity to the
present?
12. If the Yugoslav-Makedonijans are the glorious Macedonians from antiquity
to the present, as they claim, why are they poorer than African nations like
Botswana?
13. If the Yugoslav-Makedonijans are the glorious Macedonians from antiquity
to the present, as they claim, why do Albanians armed with not much more
than pitchforks and hoes control the western part of the country? (The
Macedonian-Greeks, i.e. the real ones, have proven their valour in 1940-49
and beyond. It took 43 days for German, Austrian, Italian and Bulgarian
forces to subdue Greece when others like France fell in 14 days.).
14. In 1941 when Hitler's army entered the capital of Vardaska (later to be
renamed to Makedonija), Skopje, there were thousands of Bulgarian flags
there to greet them and the German army was welcome as liberators. King
Boris of Bulgaria was received in 1942 in Skopje as a liberator. Please
explain this?
15. Thessaloniki was NEVER conquered by Bulgaria or Slavs. It remained
Macedonian throughout its history. The Macedonians never disappeared. When
will they be recognised us as the true Macedonians and given their basic
human rights of an identity and a culture which they forged in blood and
sweat?
16. Why did the greatest Yugoslav-Makedonijan national hero, Samuel, title
himself as"Tsar of Bulgars" if he wasn't a Bulgarian?
17. If the Yugoslav-Makedonijans are the one and only, true Macedonians, why
is their nation recognised under the temporary name of the Former Yugoslav
Republic of Makedonija (FYROM)?
18. Why do the Yugoslav-Makedonijans terrorise the indigenous Albanians, who
are near enough to the majority in FYROM, as well as all their minorities
like indigenous Greeks, Vlach and Gypsies?
19. Unless the Yugoslav-Makedonijans can find any international organisation
that can claim ex-communist FYROM respects human rights more than the
Hellenic Republic (Greece), why don't they shut up and cease with their
extremely provocative and insulting propaganda?
20. If the Yugoslav-Makedonijans are Slavs, why do they look like
Mongol-Turks?
FURTHER NOTES:
FYROM's President Gligorov at a interview reported by the Foreign
Information Service, Daily Report, Eastern Europe: "We are Slavs, who came
to this region in the 6th century. We are not descendants of the ancient
Macedonians."
FYROM's Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, in her speech on
the present situation in the Balkans: "We do not claim to be descendants of
Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language. Greece is
FYROM's second largest trading partner, and its number one investor".
In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's
Ambassador to Canada: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who
produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are Slav people and
our language is closely related to Bulgarian." He also commented "there is
some confusion about the identity of the people of this country".
The testimony of the American Henry Morgenthau is also of great
significance. Serving in Greece between 1925 and 1926 as President of the
Committee on Refugees for the Community of Nations, he wrote -in his book "I
was Sent to Athens" and "When the Turks and the Bulgarians left, Macedonia
remained a purely Greek region" Then, as now, on the northern borders of
Macedonia there were inhabitants speaking a local Slavic dialect alongside
the Greek language. These people were, and still are, Greeks.
Testimony of perhaps the greatest Macedonian and indeed Greek, Alexander the
Great, King of Macedonia and Captain-General of all Greece.
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great
harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader
of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which
I took from you…"
Arrianos II (Anabasis) 14, 4
Historian, 95-175AD
"There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service, but how different
is their cause from ours?! They will be fighting for pay and not much of it
at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be
in it."
Arrian.
The Campaigns of Alexander.
Alexander talking to the troops before the battle.
Book 2-7
Penguin Classics.
Page 112.
Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.
"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
news:bgpnd5$lo$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
George S. Tsapanos
>NICOLA KRISTON -1907
>Ellis Island ship's manifest transcription
>Race / People: Macedonian>
>http://www.geocities.com/kristonfamily/Kriston_Nicola_1907.html>
And here Ladies and Gentlemen the AUTHENTIC page from the Ellis Island
archives:
http://www.ellisislandrecords.org/search/matchMore.asp?LNM=KRISTON&PLNM=KR
ISTON&RF=137&kind=exact&offset=100&dwpdone=1
One Nikola - KRISTON
122. Nicola Kriston Velusin 1907 28
Kriston, Nicola
Turkey E., Macedonian
Velusin
April 17, 1907
28y
M
M
Nieuw Amsterdam
Rotterdam, South Holland, The Netherlands
The poor bastard was a TURK from Makedonia.No Makedonian race no nothing.
Regards to all ..................L.
"Vlachs, The Autochthonous
Of the Hellenic Peninsula".
rikopal
that your ethnicity ever existed
By the way is he the only one you could find because in a quick search that
I did from Monastir there were only Greeks and Boulgarians who according
to your goverment never lived there.....
As for the name Nicola Kriston is not Slavoskopian , it looks more Greek
or Hungarian....
By the way most of the Greeks traveled from Patras with the Greek ship
called MACEDONIA.
"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bgpnd5$lo$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
++
today in RM
And that would be Atanas who he is visiting.
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
>http://www.geocities.com/kristonfamily/Kriston_Nicola_1907.html>
And here Ladies and Gentlemen the AUTHENTIC page from the Ellis Island
archives:http://www.ellisislandrecords.org/search/matchMore.asp?LNM=KRISTON&PLNM=KR
ISTON&RF=137&kind=exact&offset=100&dwpdone=1One Nikola - KRISTON
name
City of origin
122. Nicola Kriston
Velusin
birthdate
1907 28Name (know any Turks named Nicholas?
country of originKriston, Nicola
Turkey E.,Nationality
Macedonianfrom city
++
Here is the record for the passenger. Click the links on the left to see more information about this passenger.
name:Kriston, Nicola
ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
place of residence: Velusin
arrival: April 17, 1907
age: 28y
gender: M
marital status: M
ship: Nieuw Amsterdam
departureRotterdam, South Holland, The Netherlands
About the Foundation| About AFIHC| Press | Contact Us | Terms
of Use | FAQ | Privacy
©2000 by The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation, Inc.
George S. Tsapanos
>You question Velusin below - This is Velusa, near Strumica and exists
>today in RM>
> Nationality (Country of residence): Turkey>
You are LYING again Galina.. Those "Ellis archives" are NOT taken from the
Ellis Archives, are cooked in the SKOPIAN Kitchen. If it says NATIONALITY thats
it, don't ADD and change in parenthesis "Country of residence", matter of fact
look at the SKOPIAN as well as your IDIOCIES:
1. Nicola Kriston Velusin 1907 28
In 1907 there was not a state under the name Turkey.It is clear that someone
FABRICATED the entire thing. Shame on you, SHAME.
>> Race / People: Macedonian>
WHERE did you see that, WHERE?
He was an OTTOMAN living in what was considered those days back MAKEDONIA.
George S. Tsapanos
>Name (know any Turks named Nicholas?>
The guy was a Christian Ottoman as they were many Ottoman subjects those days.
>country of origin
>> Turkey E.,
HAHAHAHAHA Did you check out his ARRIVAL date? No Turkey was existing those
days, it is clearly a FABRICATION by the SKOPIANS.
>Nationality
>
> Macedonian>
Oh? WHERE did you see that? The guy was a Christian living in the Ottoman
territory known those days as Makedonia, WHERE do you see
his.........NATIONALITY, send us the link of the Ellis Island Archives, and not
the ones cooked in SKOPIA.
WolfWolf
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Name (know any Turks named Nicholas?>
> The guy was a Christian Ottoman as they were many Ottoman subjects those days.
>
> >country of origin
>
> >> Turkey E.,
>
> HAHAHAHAHA Did you check out his ARRIVAL date? No Turkey was existing those
> days, it is clearly a FABRICATION by the SKOPIANS.
So the map titled "Turkey in Europe" made by JOHNSTON. Q. in 1852 is a fabrication?!?
http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/p-6299.jpg
Another historic map of "Turkey in Europe" is here - with Macedonia:
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/66.htm
>
> >Nationality
> >
> > Macedonian>
>
> Oh? WHERE did you see that? The guy was a Christian living in the Ottoman
> territory known those days as Makedonia, WHERE do you see
> his.........NATIONALITY,
On the ship's manifest transcription, which is obviously consistent with the guy's
data when he first entered America in 1903, otherwise he would have been refused.
Everything which doesn't suit your taste is "fabricated", isn't it, dimwit???
But the proof for such grave accusation is still missing, while all counter-evidence
remains undisputed.
You're really a bad, very bad loser ...
With amusement
WolfWolf
The European
++
i went to the Ellis Island site you posted
++
rikopal
1. All those from now Fyromian cities like Monastir and Skopia declare
themselves (freely!!) or GREEK or Boulgarian (according to your propaganda
no Greeks and Boulgarians existed in Fyrom)
2. This guy Kriston comes from a 100% greek town of Velusin.See his relatives
they all declare themselves Greek.
3. Kriston is not a Slavoskopian surname only Greeks and some Hungarians
use it
4. In a search that I did I couldn't find any other records of "Macedonia"
ethnicity.Where did they come from the thousands of Fyromians that suppose
to live in the state??
WHAT'S THE MATTER ?? YOU WANT TO USE THIS RECORDS AGAIN??
PLEASE DO !!
++ <arch...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<3F31800C...@erols.com>...
> --
George S. Tsapanos
>George,
>
>i went to the Ellis Island site you posted>
Then go again, you will discover the genesis of "your" type of Makedonians, the
timing, the separation of the families, the separations among villages and so
on.
The Ellis archives is a powerfull weapon AGAINST the SKOPIANS, it proves that a
Makedonian ETHNICITY was never in existance in the Balkans before the creation
of the Exarchy.
It gives you an idea when the FIRST people declared themselves
as.......Makedonians, combining such information with what was happening at the
same time all over the Balkans one understands many things, I am going to use
it in the future in my book, regarding the Hellenism of the Vlachs.
The rest of the creation of "Makedonism" of course happened here in the U.S.A.,
Canada and Australia when the Greek Church loaded with Southerners who were the
first to be named as Hellenes in the newlly created State of Hellas, were
dominating such Church and they considering as Hellenes ONLY the ones speaking
the language of the Jewish Gospels.
It is in such a way that the splitting and separatism happened and it became
even stronger after the recognition by the Hellenic State of ONE only language,
you see....till the first census, in Greece that same language to become
official was spoken by VERY FEW in comparison to the VLACHIAN, Arvanite even
the TSAKONIAN idiom, which TSAKONIAN by the way was in number four of
preferences.
Such details showing the linguistic realities of early Hellas, at the same time
are showing ethnographic realities and the fact that the people that wanted to
be recognized as Hellenes were NOT speaking the SAME language, even during the
1912-1913 wars and even after the strong propaganda by the Church to teach such
Greek language used in the Church.
If Kosmas the Aetolian and many others arrived in Epirus in order to
collaborate with Ali-Pasha and teach the Greek language to the VLACHS of the
PINDUS range, it means that those people WERE NOT speaking the Greek language
of the Gospel, but the one that they were using since Roman times, the one that
the MAKEDONIANS took with them all the way to Dacia-Getia-Moesia.
The Academians in SKOPIA are realizing slowly slowly the importance of the
LATINIZATION of the MAKEDONIANS and they are accepting it as I many times I
proved it. However, they are doing also some big mistakes pushing for the
recognition of the local Vlachs in SKOPIA as..........of ROMANIAN origins
rather than TRUE MAKEDONIAN origins, and of course such creation of origins
will leave the SLAVS as the only contenders of MAKEDONISM in that state.
We went before thru all this, now go in the Ellis Island Archives and dig for
YOUR type of Makedonism.
George S. Tsapanos
>So the map titled "Turkey in Europe" made by JOHNSTON. Q. in 1852 is a
>fabrication?!?
>http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/p-6299.jpg>
You tell me!
George S. Tsapanos
> ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> place of residence: Velusin>
Meaning that he was an ETHNIC TURK living in VELUSIN MAKEDONIA.
Now, do you want to find people IDENTIFYING themselves CLEARLY
AS.......MAKEDONIANS?
Sorry, no help, you have to do it all by yourself, but at the same time you
will discover that these Neo-Makedonians had NOTHING to do with any
"Makedonian" Church, NOTHING with Alexander's TRUE MAKEDONIANS and so
on............
They were the weak and the meak of the land, the REJECTS by the Greek Orthodoxy
and the Bulgarian Exarchy, the ones that they didn't know where to go and ask
for help.
Some of them DID have Makedonian connections, but MOST of them were of
BULGARIAN origins. The "Makedonians" matter of fact that you'll find in the
archives, most of them are originated from villages WITHIN BULGARIA, and/or
from the zone to the NORTH OF PRILEP, a zone that clearly was not associated
with Greeks.
The opposite happens in the VLACHIAN villages, here one more time part of the
history of MY family, read it carefully, HELLAS never made it to
Monastiri-Tyrnovo-Megarovo and yet........read how they declared themselves:
1.Dimitrios Tsapanos New York, N.Y. 1921 40
2. Georgios Tsapanos Tirnoron, Greece 1917 33
3. Nikolaos Tsapanos Castron, Greece 1920 13
4. Petros Tsapanos Tirnoron, Greece 1917 26
5. Stergios Tsapanos Cairo 1902 39
6. Theodoros Tsapanos Tirnoron, Greece
Now, since Tyrnovon ( and not Tyrnoron) was inhabited by Hellenes but today
belongs to FYROM-SKOPIA, can we ask that FYROM-SKOPIA should be renamed as
HELLAS?
Ilinden
Ilinden
WolfWolf
"rikopal" <rik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6a1f773.03080...@posting.google.com...
> stop using Elis Island record stupid it is against you!!!
Why should we stop using it?
It's financed by US taxpayers, and it's not less open to us than to anybody else.
Wasn't it one of YOUR group, Rikohead, who asked us to provide proof from Ellis Island
archives?
Now you have it - and not only one case alone - so then swallow it.
And stop whining.
You too are a bad, a very bad loser.
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
> Galina wrote:
>
> >George,
> >
> >i went to the Ellis Island site you posted>
>
> Then go again, you will discover the genesis of "your" type of Makedonians, the
> timing, the separation of the families, the separations among villages and so
> on.
>
> The Ellis archives is a powerfull weapon AGAINST the SKOPIANS, it proves that a
> Makedonian ETHNICITY was never in existance in the Balkans before the creation
> of the Exarchy.
> The rest of the creation of "Makedonism" of course happened here in the U.S.A.,
> Canada and Australia when the Greek Church loaded with Southerners who were the
> first to be named as Hellenes in the newlly created State of Hellas, were
> dominating such Church and they considering as Hellenes ONLY the ones speaking
> the language of the Jewish Gospels.
Can you give us *one* credible evidence - only one - of an entity called "State of
Hellas"?!?
Doesn't matter if it comes from Ellis Island or elsewhere - it must be credible.
As long as such evidence is missing, you must accept the Macedonian evidence as it is:
a documented fact.
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >So the map titled "Turkey in Europe" made by JOHNSTON. Q. in 1852 is a
> >fabrication?!?
> >http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/p-6299.jpg>
>
> You tell me!
I *asked* you.
You made a positive assertion stating that there was no "Turkey in Europe".
We prove you wrong.
So it's upon you to prove that the map above, like many others of that period, are a
fabrication.
Go ahead, Tsapanescu, show us that you're really so smart as you claim.
WolfWolf
"George S. Tsapanos" <lyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030807102806...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> Galina wrote:
>
> > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > place of residence: Velusin>
>
> Meaning that he was an ETHNIC TURK living in VELUSIN MAKEDONIA.
Doesn't seem so. It appears clearly as Macedonian ethnicity from the European part of
Turkey.
He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek" or "Bulgarian".
He was identified as Macedonian.
That was his identity in 1907 and in 1903 (which you claimed impossible), his first
visit to the States.
Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis Island, which was not the case.
Sorry, but it seems that you have lost here (and not only here).
George S. Tsapanos
>Doesn't seem so. It appears clearly as Macedonian ethnicity from the
European>part of>Turkey.>He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek"
or "Bulgarian".>He was identified as Macedonian.>That was his identity in 1907
and in 1903 (which you claimed impossible), his
>first>visit to the States.>Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis
Island, which was not the case.>
He was an ETHNIC Turk living in Velusin Makedonia, check the rest of the names
also, most of them from Hungary.
George S. Tsapanos
>I *asked* you.
>You made a positive assertion stating that there was no "Turkey in Europe".>
And I repeat it.
George S. Tsapanos
>Can you give us *one* credible evidence - only one - of an entity called
>"State of>Hellas"?!?>Doesn't matter if it comes from Ellis Island or elsewhere
- it must be>credible.
>>As long as such evidence is missing, you must accept the Macedonian
evidence>as it is:>a documented fact.>
I already posted my family's names from the archives.
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >Doesn't seem so. It appears clearly as Macedonian ethnicity from the
> European>part of>Turkey.>He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek"
> or "Bulgarian".>He was identified as Macedonian.>That was his identity in 1907
> and in 1903 (which you claimed impossible), his
> >first>visit to the States.>Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis
> Island, which was not the case.>
>
> He was an ETHNIC Turk living in Velusin Makedonia
He was identified as ETHNIC MACEDONIAN.
Learn to read, Tsapanescu!!!
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >I *asked* you.
> >You made a positive assertion stating that there was no "Turkey in Europe".>
>
> And I repeat it.
So you admit and confirm repeatedly that you're a liar.
Thanks for revealing us this already known fact, Tsapanescu.
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >Can you give us *one* credible evidence - only one - of an entity called
> >"State of>Hellas"?!?>Doesn't matter if it comes from Ellis Island or elsewhere
> - it must be>credible.
> >>As long as such evidence is missing, you must accept the Macedonian
> evidence>as it is:>a documented fact.>
>
> I already posted my family's names from the archives.
No "State of Hellas" appeared there.
Again trying to weasel out with stupid lies, Tsapanescu?!?
You're a cultural lowbrow, Tsapanescu, nothing else.
George S. Tsapanos
>So you admit and confirm repeatedly that you're a liar.
>Thanks for revealing us this already known fact, Tsapanescu.
Yo, Turk
To be called by you by any names it is an HONOR, grand malaka.
George S. Tsapanos
>No "State of Hellas" appeared there.
>Again trying to weasel out with stupid lies, Tsapanescu?!?
>
>You're a cultural lowbrow, Tsapanescu, nothing else.>
But then...........why are you replying to my writings?
hahahahahahahahaha
George S. Tsapanos
>He was identified as ETHNIC MACEDONIAN.
>Learn to read, Tsapanescu!!!>
You learn how to read, the guy was an ETHNIC Turk living in Makedonia, nothing
else.
There were NEVER any ETHNIC Makedonians, the Makedonians were ETHNIC HELLENES.
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >So you admit and confirm repeatedly that you're a liar.
> >Thanks for revealing us this already known fact, Tsapanescu.
>
> Yo, Turk
> To be called by you by any names it is an HONOR
No merits here - the "honour" was provided by yourself.
Enjoy!
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >No "State of Hellas" appeared there.
> >Again trying to weasel out with stupid lies, Tsapanescu?!?
> >
> >You're a cultural lowbrow, Tsapanescu, nothing else.>
>
> But then...........why are you replying to my writings?
Errr ... and the aim of your initial reply was which?!?
Thanks for the amusement, nevertheless ...
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
The PSEUDO-VLACH wrote:
> myname wrote:
>
> >He was identified as ETHNIC MACEDONIAN.
> >Learn to read, Tsapanescu!!!>
>
> You learn how to read, the guy was an ETHNIC Turk living in Makedonia, nothing
> else.
That's what we're trying to teach you all the time:
an ETHNIC Macedonian, originating from European Turkey.
Didn't you read the manifest and the Ellis Island records?
They can teach you this and much more ...
George S. Tsapanos
>That's what we're trying to teach you all the time:
>an ETHNIC Macedonian, originating from European Turkey.>
The Makedonians were and are Hellenes, the SKOPIANS are the wannabes, mutts
from the left and the right.
George S. Tsapanos
>Errr ... and the aim of your initial reply was which?!?
>Thanks for the amusement, nevertheless >
Harry
Time for you and Ilin-Den to leave this newsgroup
You are bad news to the SKOPIAN-FYROMIANS and thats REALLY BAD!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
George S. Tsapanos
>No merits here - the "honour" was provided by yourself.
>Enjoy!>
Oh......but I am, I am...........what happened to those sites by Herodotus and
Thukididis badmouthing the Hellenes?
I am still waiting for them.
Ilinden
WolfWolf , Tsapanesku does not work he receives welfare shame on you Latin Vlach
you live from the tax payers money.
Ilinden
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >That's what we're trying to teach you all the time:
> >an ETHNIC Macedonian, originating from European Turkey.>
>
> The Makedonians were and are Hellenes
Nope, not in real world.
WolfWolf
> myname wrote:
>
> >Errr ... and the aim of your initial reply was which?!?
> >Thanks for the amusement, nevertheless >
>
> Harry
Harry???????????????
Who's that?!?
> Time for you and Ilin-Den to leave this newsgroup
Must be boring for you to play usenet censor 24/7 ...
Let me make you a suggestion: try throwing people out of soc.culture.greek.
There are many more in that newsgroup - you'll have much more fun!!
WolfWolf
> MYNAME WROTE:
>
> >No merits here - the "honour" was provided by yourself.
> >Enjoy!>
>
> Oh......but I am, I am...........what happened to those sites by Herodotus and
> Thukididis badmouthing the Hellenes?
Could it be that you swallowed them with all your venom?!?
But then, we gave you much more evidences - from ancient times until our days.
What about your Prime Minister Simitis who *did* accept the identity of the Republic
of Macedonia?
http://www.shape.nato.int/shapenews/2001/JULY/SA%20170701.htm
Visiting Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis held talks today in Moscow with President
Vladimir Putin who is quoted by AP as praising the positive development of the
bilateral relations of the two countries. The report writes that Prime Minister
Simitis also praised Russia's role in trying to settle ethnic conflicts in the
countries near Greece. "We are experiencing problems in the Balkans, in Macedonia
(sic), and we cannot imagine the settlement of the Balkan problems without Russia,"
the premier was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.
When will you follow his example, Tsapanescu?!?
WolfWolf
tax payments.
Then he should be at least so decent to admit his errors.
Shame, shame - a zillion times shame!!!
WolfWolf
The European
"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F32EAF0...@sympatico.ca...
++
WolfWolf wrote:
> "George S. Tsapanos" <lyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030807102806...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> > Galina wrote:
> >
> > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > place of residence: Velusin>
> >
> > Meaning that he was an ETHNIC TURK living in VELUSIN MAKEDONIA.
Besides which a Velusin is a person from Velusa. Soem city inhabitants call themselves
city name + ets, other place types end in in en or ina ena
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> myname wrote:
>
> >Doesn't seem so. It appears clearly as Macedonian ethnicity from the
> European>part of>Turkey.>He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek"
> or "Bulgarian".>He was identified as Macedonian.>That was his identity in 1907
> and in 1903 (which you claimed impossible), his
> >first>visit to the States.>Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis
> Island, which was not the case.>
>
> He was an ETHNIC Turk living in Velusin Makedonia, check the rest of the names
> also, most of them from Hungary.
There were a lot of Hungarians on that voyage. He wasn't one of them
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> myname wrote:
>
> >That's what we're trying to teach you all the time:
> >an ETHNIC Macedonian, originating from European Turkey.>
>
> The Makedonians were and are Hellenes, the SKOPIANS are the wannabes, mutts
> from the left and the right.
What a lame rejoinder
++
WolfWolf wrote:
Let's look up Tsapanos names in the records and check 'em out
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >George,
> >
> >i went to the Ellis Island site you posted>
>
> Then go again, you will discover the genesis of "your" type of Makedonians, the
> timing, the separation of the families, the separations among villages and so
> on.
>
> The Ellis archives is a powerfull weapon AGAINST the SKOPIANS, it proves that a
> Makedonian ETHNICITY was never in existance in the Balkans before the creation
> of the Exarchy.
>
> It gives you an idea when the FIRST people declared themselves
> as.......Makedonians, combining such information with what was happening at the
> same time all over the Balkans one understands many things, I am going to use
> it in the future in my book, regarding the Hellenism of the Vlachs.
>
> The rest of the creation of "Makedonism" of course happened here in the U.S.A.,
> Canada and Australia when the Greek Church loaded with Southerners who were the
> first to be named as Hellenes in the newlly created State of Hellas, were
> dominating such Church and they considering as Hellenes ONLY the ones speaking
> the language of the Jewish Gospels.
>
> It is in such a way that the splitting and separatism happened and it became
> even stronger after the recognition by the Hellenic State of ONE only language,
> you see....till the first census, in Greece that same language to become
> official was spoken by VERY FEW in comparison to the VLACHIAN, Arvanite even
> the TSAKONIAN idiom, which TSAKONIAN by the way was in number four of
> preferences.
>
> Such details showing the linguistic realities of early Hellas, at the same time
> are showing ethnographic realities and the fact that the people that wanted to
> be recognized as Hellenes were NOT speaking the SAME language, even during the
> 1912-1913 wars and even after the strong propaganda by the Church to teach such
> Greek language used in the Church.
>
> If Kosmas the Aetolian and many others arrived in Epirus in order to
> collaborate with Ali-Pasha and teach the Greek language to the VLACHS of the
> PINDUS range, it means that those people WERE NOT speaking the Greek language
> of the Gospel, but the one that they were using since Roman times, the one that
> the MAKEDONIANS took with them all the way to Dacia-Getia-Moesia.
Aha, I see you learn from my postings, after all. Do you remember what the dear
saint had to say about the reasons for learning Greek and how he felt about people
who spoke their own languages?
I wonder is Kosmas was mostly sainted for his hellenism, and as a foil for Saint
Nektarios who himself championed the use of local languages in the local churches
and local people being made local bishops, so that Orthodoxy could trhive instead
of dimish through Phanariot control.
I have several beautiful icons of St. Nektarios and even a travelling one I keep
with me all the time.
>
>
> The Academians in SKOPIA are realizing slowly slowly the importance of the
> LATINIZATION of the MAKEDONIANS and they are accepting it as I many times I
> proved it.
"Armin" is considered "our old Macedonian language by some scholars. And they
claim it was not latinized.
> However, they are doing also some big mistakes pushing for the
> recognition of the local Vlachs in SKOPIA as..........of ROMANIAN origins
no one is. That atittude is considered completely politically incorrect.
>
> rather than TRUE MAKEDONIAN origins, and of course such creation of origins
> will leave the SLAVS as the only contenders of MAKEDONISM in that state.
There are few slavs i Macedonia. What there are is a number of mixed people,
including Vlasi
> We went before thru all this, now go in the Ellis Island Archives and dig for
> YOUR type of Makedonism.
>
> Regards to all ..................L.
> "Vlachs, The Autochthonous
> Of the Hellenic Peninsula".
Post yours
++
Turkish Roumanian
Milovist, Greece
March 13, 1914
20y
M
S
Chicago
Le Havre, Seine-Inferior, France
additional, from manifest - born in Milovishte, Greece
country - Turkey
ethnicity - Roumanian
finl destination - NY, New York
going to friend Lasko Tromoa, 154 New Oak, Ohio
5'6"
black hair, brown eyes, white complexion
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > place of residence: Velusin>
>
> Meaning that he was an ETHNIC TURK living in VELUSIN MAKEDONIA.
>
> Now, do you want to find people IDENTIFYING themselves CLEARLY
> AS.......MAKEDONIANS?
>
> Sorry, no help, you have to do it all by yourself, but at the same time you
> will discover that these Neo-Makedonians had NOTHING to do with any
> "Makedonian" Church, NOTHING with Alexander's TRUE MAKEDONIANS and so
> on............
>
> They were the weak and the meak of the land, the REJECTS by the Greek Orthodoxy
> and the Bulgarian Exarchy, the ones that they didn't know where to go and ask
> for help.
>
> Some of them DID have Makedonian connections, but MOST of them were of
> BULGARIAN origins. The "Makedonians" matter of fact that you'll find in the
> archives, most of them are originated from villages WITHIN BULGARIA, and/or
> from the zone to the NORTH OF PRILEP, a zone that clearly was not associated
> with Greeks.
>
> The opposite happens in the VLACHIAN villages, here one more time part of the
> history of MY family, read it carefully, HELLAS never made it to
> Monastiri-Tyrnovo-Megarovo and yet........read how they declared themselves:
>
> 1.Dimitrios Tsapanos New York, N.Y. 1921 40
> 2. Georgios Tsapanos Tirnoron, Greece 1917 33
> 3. Nikolaos Tsapanos Castron, Greece 1920 13
> 4. Petros Tsapanos Tirnoron, Greece 1917 26
> 5. Stergios Tsapanos Cairo 1902 39
> 6. Theodoros Tsapanos Tirnoron, Greece
>
> Now, since Tyrnovon ( and not Tyrnoron) was inhabited by Hellenes but today
> belongs to FYROM-SKOPIA, can we ask that FYROM-SKOPIA should be renamed as
> HELLAS?
++
New York, N.Y.
May 29, 1921
40y
M
M
Megali Hellas (chekc out the name of the ship)
Piraeus, Attica, Central
Greece and Euboea, Greece
A U.S. citizen
ok, this guy is from centrl Greece, let's check 'em out
married male, age 40
lives at 501 W. 155th St. NY, NY
Also from Milovishte:
Tsapon, Stefan
Roumanian
Milovista, Greece
November 02, 1915
26 y
M
S
San Guglielmo
Naples, Campania, Italy
going to Newark, OHIO
will stay with Jovan Teca
Complexion, eyes, hair - brown
1902
Stergios Tsapanos
39, male, single, tobaconist
Grecian from Cairo
_____________
going to stay with his fring
rikopal
Go ahead use it , explain how all those people from now FYROMIAN
cities
recognized themselves as only Boulgarians and Greeks??
Find me another person who claims such ethnicity??
Explain why his relatives are all Greek and claim Greek ethnicity?
EAT SHIT FROM YOUR OWN DOCUMENTS ASHHOLE!!!
As always you don't answer these questions , but you explain my
writing your own way, like I wouldn't like a US funded site...you are
such an idiot.
"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bgub26$6t8$4...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> "rikopal" <rik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c6a1f773.03080...@posting.google.com...
> > stop using Elis Island record stupid it is against you!!!
>
> Why should we stop using it?
> It's financed by US taxpayers, and it's not less open to us than to anybody else.
> Wasn't it one of YOUR group, Rikohead, who asked us to provide proof from Ellis Island
> archives?
> Now you have it - and not only one case alone - so then swallow it.
> And stop whining.
> You too are a bad, a very bad loser.
>
> WolfWolf
> The European
>
> >
> > ++ <arch...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<3F31800C...@erols.com>...
> > > Welcome, Galina | Sign Out | Become a Foundation Member
> > >
> > > Here is the record for the passenger. Click the links on the left to see more
> > > information about this passenger.
> > >
> > > name:Kriston, Nicola
> > >
> > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > place of residence: Velusin
> > > arrival: April 17, 1907
> > > age: 28y
> > > gender: M
> > > marital status: M
> > > ship: Nieuw Amsterdam
> > > departureRotterdam, South Holland, The Netherlands
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > About the Foundation| About AFIHC| Press | Contact Us | Terms of Use | FAQ |
> > > Privacy
> > > ©2000 by The
> > > Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> > >
> > > > the STUPID Turk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >NICOLA KRISTON -1907
> > > > >Ellis Island ship's manifest transcription
>
> > > > >Race / People: Macedonian>
>
> > > > >http://www.geocities.com/kristonfamily/Kriston_Nicola_1907.html>
> > > >
> > > > And here Ladies and Gentlemen the AUTHENTIC page from the Ellis Island
> > > > archives:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ellisislandrecords.org/search/matchMore.asp?LNM=KRISTON&PLNM=KR
> > > > ISTON&RF=137&kind=exact&offset=100&dwpdone=1
> > > >
> > > > One Nikola - KRISTON
> > > > 122. Nicola Kriston Velusin 1907 28
> > > >
> > > > Kriston, Nicola
> > > >
> > > > Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > >
> > > > Velusin
> > > >
> > > > April 17, 1907
> > > >
> > > > 28y
> > > >
> > > > M
> > > >
> > > > M
> > > >
> > > > Nieuw Amsterdam
> > > >
> > > > Rotterdam, South Holland, The Netherlands
> > > >
> > > > The poor bastard was a TURK from Makedonia.No Makedonian race no nothing.
> > > >
> > > > Regards to all ..................L.
> > > > "Vlachs, The Autochthonous
> > > > Of the Hellenic Peninsula".
> > >
> > > --
WolfWolf
> Go ahead use it , explain how all those people from now FYROMIAN
> cities
> recognized themselves as only Boulgarians and Greeks??
If you mean people from MACEDONIAN cities, it really doesn't seem so ...
Actually, among the many ethnic Macedonians in Ellis Island records, we couldn't find
any single who recognized himself other than Macedonian.
>
> Find me another person who claims such ethnicity??
Already done - see separate thread
>
> Explain why his relatives are all Greek and claim Greek ethnicity?
No explanation, since such claim doesn't exist.
>
> EAT SHIT FROM YOUR OWN DOCUMENTS ASHHOLE!!!
Is this how you talk to your father & mother?!?
Or is it your anger because you can NOT back any of your stupid assertions?!?
> As always you don't answer these questions
As always, I gave full answer.
As always, YOUR answers are missing.
Don't you have enough from last time we exposed you as liar?!?
Do you want to see it again?!?
Well, it's virtually done.
LIAR!!!
With amusement
WolfWolf
The European
> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
George S. Tsapanos
>Besides which a Velusin is a person from Velusa. Soem city inhabitants call
>themselves>city name + ets, other place types end in in en or ina ena>
Dear Galina
You can not find any "Makedonians" before the Bulgars throw the slogan,
"Makedonia for the Makedonians" and began killing their own Bulgaro-phones
because they didn't want to become part of the Exarchy.
In the archives one can INDEED find the beginning of "Makedonism" but then,
would such people be true Makedonians?
How come they didn't claim any Makedonism lets say before 1870? And even more
important, what such people were before 1870?
Were they identifying themselves as Serbs? Bulgars? Slavo-phone Greeks?
Slavo-phone Ottomans?
They didn't have any churches of their own or under the "Makedonian" label the
same way the Bulgars did not between the establishment of the Exarchy and the
abolishment of the Axrida Arch-Bisopric.
As you can see, those "Makedonians" were born under the BULGARS and they have
NOTHING to do with the TRUE Makedonians let alone of course Phillip and
Alexander.
George S. Tsapanos
>We are experiencing problems in the Balkans, in Macedonia
>(sic), and we cannot imagine the settlement of the Balkan problems
without>Russia,">the premier was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.>
>When will you follow his example, Tsapanescu?!?>
Dear Harry
Simitis was INDEED telling the TRUTH, he was talking about MAKEDONIA the one
and only, and not about that hole of SKOPIA known also as FYROM.
Got it?
George S. Tsapanos
>Harry???????????????
>Who's that?!?>
Since you refuse to give us your identity I'll call you by that name, you don't
mind I hope, it is just like calling FYROM as SKOPIA.
>Must be boring for you to play usenet censor 24/7 ...>Let me make you a
suggestion: try throwing people out of soc.culture.greek.>There are many more
in that newsgroup - you'll have much morefun!!>
Throw you out?
Are you kidding me, I want you to stay since you like so much all this slapping
you are subject to by me............
hahahahahahahahahaha
George S. Tsapanos
>Nope, not in real world.>
Dear Harry
The Hellenic ETHNOS took the name ETHNOS MAKEDNON once it arrived in the Pindus
mountains.
And when part of it kept going and arrived in Peloponnesos, it took the name of
DORIANS.
But you knew it already, isn't so?
George S. Tsapanos
>Let's look up Tsapanos names in the records and check 'em out>
I already posted them.
George S. Tsapanos
>What a lame rejoinder>
Is it?
Remember, Herodotus BOOK 1-56
"The Hellenic ETHNOS became known as ETHNOS MAKEDNON once it moved in the
Pindus mountains and the ones that made it to Peloponnesos as DORIANS.
George S. Tsapanos
>Tsapan, Nicolas
> Turkish Roumanian>
And your point is? Who is this person?
George S. Tsapanos
>Aha, I see you learn from my postings, after all. Do you remember what
the>dear>saint had to say about the reasons for learning Greek and how he felt
about>people>who spoke their own languages?>
There is NOTHING to be learned from your posts.
>I wonder is Kosmas was mostly sainted for his hellenism, and as a foil
for>Saint>Nektarios who himself championed the use of local languages in the
local>churches>and local people being made local bishops, so that Orthodoxy
could trhive>instead>of dimish through Phanariot control.>
You never understood a thing. Orthodoxy introduced it's creation, the SLAV
language, in order to appear that indeed brought Orthodoxy to millions and
millions of people.
Kosmas and the others went to Epirus and Makedonia in order to teach the VLACHS
and the ARVANITES how to speak Greek, not ancient but that of the JEWISH
GOSPEL.
But nooooooooo the VLACHS wanted to stay with their language of more than 2,000
years old and the ARVANITES with their a little younger.
Open Evliya Celebi in his running around SKOPIA and you'll see what kind of
LANGUAGES and what kind of CHURCHES were existing in SKOPIA in the late 1600s.
One LANGUAGE and one CHURCH missing, is that MAKEDONIAN ONE.
No MAKEDONIANS and no MAKEDONIAN CHURCH in the city of SKOPIA back in the late
1600s.
Can you explain to us, or any of the other SKOPIANS, how come in SKOPIA there
were not even one MAKEDONIAN?
George S. Tsapanos
>Tsapon, Stefan
> Roumanian
> Milovista, Greece
> November 02, 1915>
Milovista Greece!
Do you have any idea where MILOVISTA was and is?
Greece NEVER made it so far to the North, the SERBS took our lands in
Pelagonia.
The question is, who this guy is and why he wants MILOVISTA as part of GREECE.
Ilinden
killed by the Vlach Nikola Pirzas from Psoderi Lerinsko.
Ilinden the Macedonian
Ilinden
Like Tsapanesku with the square Latin Vlach head.
Yannis
> No Tsapanesku you can call me a Ftcogian or Turkogrekos or stupid Latin
> Vlach , Like Tsapanesku with the square Latin Vlach head.
My chum,
Why Ilinden fighters' oath, that is Krushevo's Manifesto is written in Bulgarian?
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Let's look up Tsapanos names in the records and check 'em out>
>
> I already posted them.
You didn't post the manifest info. How tall were they. What color were
their eyes, who were they going to? At what address.
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Tsapan, Nicolas
> > Turkish Roumanian>
>
> And your point is? Who is this person?
George,
Variants of your last name include Tsapan (without endings), Chopan,
Tsopan, tzopan /os /ou/ov etc.
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
Do you know what Milo Vis means?
There are more than one
++
You seem to be under the impression that Albanian is a new language. Its
morphology would suggest otherwise
Ilinden
June R Harton
>
>
> WolfWolf wrote:
>
> > "George S. Tsapanos" <lyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20030807102806...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> > > Galina wrote:
> > >
> > > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > > place of residence: Velusin>
> > >
>
call themselves
> city name + ets, other place types end in in en or ina ena
>
> >
> >
European part of
> > Turkey.
> > He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek" or "Bulgarian".
> > He was identified as Macedonian.
> > That was his identity in 1907 and in 1903 (which you claimed
impossible), his first
> > visit to the States.
> > Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis Island, which was not the
case.
> >
> >
> > With amusement
> >
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
Silly lies, Schneider.
You only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority, like
yourself, are simply West Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia'
anything:
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:
"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."
And here:
Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......
http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html
Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).
And here:
For fair use only.
http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...
...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.
... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...
Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.
The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"
Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV
This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "
And here:
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm
http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm
And finally here
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm
http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid
from: Spirit of Truth
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
June R Harton
>
>
> "George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
>
> > Galina wrote:
> >
> > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > place of residence: Velusin>
>
Turkey
Silly lie, Schneider.
June R Harton
> >
> > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > place of residence: Velusin>
> >
>
European part of
> Turkey.
> He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek" or "Bulgarian".
> He was identified as Macedonian.
> That was his identity in 1907 and in 1903 (which you claimed impossible),
his first
> visit to the States.
> Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis Island, which was not the
case.
>
> Sorry, but it seems that you have lost here (and not only here).
>
> With amusement
>
> WolfWolf
> The European
Silly, dogdog!
You only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority, like
ilindra, are simply West Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia'
June R Harton
> The PSEUDO-VLACH wrote:
>
> > myname wrote:
> >
> > >That's what we're trying to teach you all the time:
> > >an ETHNIC Macedonian, originating from European Turkey.>
> >
> > The Makedonians were and are Hellenes
>
> Nope, not in real world.
>
>
> WolfWolf
> The European
Here, dogdog, your lies do not stick:
For fair use only.
18. "I shall not indulge in a lecture on the ancient identity of the
Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the Great, but the
Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they launched in the
early days of the dispute...
"Nor shall I engage in a lecture on the falsification of the history of
Slavo-Macedonia since 1944, although that, too, has much hard factual
content. I simply remind the House that Tito's renaming of Vardar Banovina
as the Republic of Macedonia in 1944 was a political statement. More than
that, it was a territorial claim. It laid claim to territory in Greece and
in Bulgaria. Notably, the objective was the warm water port of Salonika on
the Aegean."
[Mr. Edward O'Hara of the British Parliament]
June R Harton
> Ilinden the Macedonian
Stop lying, Bulgar.
Here, Bulgar, your lies do not stick:
June R Harton
Silly lie, Bulgar. The prodigy again exposed completely as what you are
...a Bulgar.
George S. Tsapanos
>No Tsapanesku you can call me a Ftcogian or Turkogrekos or stupid Latin
Vlach>,>Like Tsapanesku with the square Latin Vlach head.>
SKOPIAN SLAV
I'll keep calling you as SKOPIAN SLAV it sounds really good to my ears.
As for Harry.........I'll keep calling him Harry, thats music too in my ears.
George S. Tsapanos
>Tsapanesku so you learn something from Ilinden the Macedonian Pavlos Melas
>was>killed by the Vlach Nikola Pirzas from Psoderi Lerinsko.>Ilinden the
Macedonian>
SKOPIAN SLAV
Pyrzas was NOT one of the two people that followed Melas towards the killed
Turk soldier from whom Stratinakis was trying to take his gun away.
Pyrzas was upstairs INSIDE THE HOUSE when the one shot that killed Melas
happened.
Raspirash? Aaaaaaaaaa taka te.
George S. Tsapanos
>You didn't post the manifest info. How tall were they. What color were
>their eyes, who were they going to? At what address.>
Why not tell us?
George S. Tsapanos
>Dear George,
>
>You seem to be under the impression that Albanian is a new language. Its
>morphology would suggest otherwise>
Dear Galina
According to the German linguist Gustav Heye, in the two idioms of the Gheg and
the Tosk dialects of the Albanian language, one can find the following
percentages of origins of their vocabulary,
27% are of Roman origins,
23% of Turkish origins,
16% Neo-Hellenic,
10% Slav,
7,8% Indo-Germanic and a
14% of uknown origins among which might be some of ancient Illyrian origins.
Now, the Roman some Illyrian and some Hellenic words might make it an older
language, but not those Turkish, Slav and Indo-Germanic ones.
It means that the majority of the Albanians ARRIVED in todays Albania from
ELSEWHERE.
Another thing is that in those older languages spoken in Albania are those
ARVANITE-VLACHIAN as well as that ARVANITO-VLACHIAN one.
And it is precisely these people that they are the oldest ones in Albania.
George S. Tsapanos
>George,
>
>Variants of your last name include Tsapan (without endings), Chopan,
>Tsopan, tzopan /os /ou/ov etc.>
Not only you are wrong, but you are forgetting two very important things.
1. My family arrived in Pelagonia from the Pindus mountains (Zerma) and their
holdings in Kolonia (Albania) after 1770 or so.
2.At that time NO LAST NAMES WERE IN USE.
Now, add these two things into your thinking and lets see with what you'll come
out.
George S. Tsapanos
>Do you know what Milo Vis means?
>
>There are more than one>
Milo Vis could mean ANYTHING you wish.
However, there was ONE MHLOVISTA known also as MULUVISTEA a clearly VLACHIAN
NAME.
It is to about 6 kilometers from KAZIANI and the VLACHS moved the old village
from the pass between KAZIANI and HERAKLEA Lyngestis, to its present position.
The old place today is known as TSITATE (CITY-TOWN) from the Latin-Roman CITTA.
When the Turks arrived they placed some ARVANITES to guard the pass and in the
mean time they brought in their families.
The old population of the Vlachs, were traveling to SOUMADIA in the Old SERBIA
and in Bulgaria. Names of those Vlachs, are mentioned in Venetian papers
according to Liakos and Mertzos since 1700.
According to the NENICEKO Milovista around 1886 had 522 houses, while during
the Patriarchical census of 1906 remained only 304.
N. Filippidis whom the Turks ostricized in FEZAN of Algiers was born in
Milovista together with his collaborator PASCHALIDIS.
No SLAV names as you can see in here.
The Vlachs from Pisoderi were calling the people of Milovista and GOPISTA by
the name of MALTANJI since many of them were gold-smiths (malama-gold in Gree).
By the same almost name MANTTANJI were calling the people from NIKOLITSA
originated from NEVESKA their AUTOCHTHONOUS villagers being gold-smiths
themselves.
Now, you make anything you want out of your Milo-Vis.
George S. Tsapanos
>No Tsapanesku you can call me a Ftcogian or Turkogrekos or stupid Latin
Vlach>,>Like Tsapanesku with the square Latin Vlach head.>
BUGAROMAN
The name of your country is :
FORMER YUGOSLAVIAN REPUBLIC OF MAKEDONIA.
YUGOSLAVIAN like SLAVS.
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >George,
> >
> >Variants of your last name include Tsapan (without endings), Chopan,
> >Tsopan, tzopan /os /ou/ov etc.>
>
> Not only you are wrong, but you are forgetting two very important things.
> 1. My family arrived in Pelagonia from the Pindus mountains (Zerma) and their
> holdings in Kolonia (Albania) after 1770 or so.
> 2.At that time NO LAST NAMES WERE IN USE.
>
> Now, add these two things into your thinking and lets see with what you'll come
> out.
they were tsopani
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Do you know what Milo Vis means?
> >
> >There are more than one>
>
> Milo Vis could mean ANYTHING you wish.
> However, there was ONE MHLOVISTA known also as MULUVISTEA a clearly VLACHIAN
> NAME.
>
> It is to about 6 kilometers from KAZIANI and the VLACHS moved the old village
> from the pass between KAZIANI and HERAKLEA Lyngestis, to its present position.
> The old place today is known as TSITATE (CITY-TOWN) from the Latin-Roman CITTA.
>
> When the Turks arrived they placed some ARVANITES to guard the pass and in the
> mean time they brought in their families.
>
> The old population of the Vlachs, were traveling to SOUMADIA in the Old SERBIA
> and in Bulgaria. Names of those Vlachs, are mentioned in Venetian papers
> according to Liakos and Mertzos since 1700.
>
> According to the NENICEKO Milovista around 1886 had 522 houses, while during
> the Patriarchical census of 1906 remained only 304.
>
> N. Filippidis whom the Turks ostricized in FEZAN of Algiers was born in
> Milovista together with his collaborator PASCHALIDIS.
>
> No SLAV names as you can see in here.
>
> The Vlachs from Pisoderi were calling the people of Milovista and GOPISTA by
> the name of MALTANJI since many of them were gold-smiths (malama-gold in Gree).
And those Maltani are AAlbanian
++
Your logic fails
George S. Tsapanos
>they were tsopani>
hahahahahahaha
How little you know of history!
My people stopped being "Tsobani" many eons earlier.
They had become merchants, politicians, traffickers of goods, self-employed
proffesionals, owners of the land, artists and artigians.
You know NOTHING and yet, you insist in distorting the facts.
George S. Tsapanos
>And those Maltani are AAlbanian>
Are you O.K.?
I am telling you that they tookm the name because they were gold-smiths from
the word MALAMA=Gold, and you want them as..........Albanians.
Whats the matter with you? No Albanians ever lived in the VLACHIAN villages, we
had some Arvanites and that was all.
WolfWolf
"June R Harton" <JUNEH...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:271Za.50$4L...@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com...
Silly attempt, troll, to deceive the folks out there.
For fair use only.
http://tinyurl.com/jjc8
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
>
> "++" <arch...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:3F33591D...@erols.com...
> >
> >
> > "George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> >
> > > Galina wrote:
> > >
> > > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > > place of residence: Velusin>
> >
> > Nope, meaning that he was a Macedonian fro what was, when he left, Ottoman
> Turkey
>
Silly attempt, troll, to deceive the folks out there.
For fair use only.
http://tinyurl.com/jjc8
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
>
> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
> news:bgub33$6t8$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> >
> > "George S. Tsapanos" <lyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20030807102806...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> > > Galina wrote:
> > >
> > > > ethnicity: Turkey E., Macedonian
> > > > place of residence: Velusin>
> > >
> > > Meaning that he was an ETHNIC TURK living in VELUSIN MAKEDONIA.
> >
> > Doesn't seem so. It appears clearly as Macedonian ethnicity from the
> European part of
> > Turkey.
> > He wasn't identified as "Hellenic", "Turkish", "Greek" or "Bulgarian".
> > He was identified as Macedonian.
> > That was his identity in 1907 and in 1903 (which you claimed impossible),
> his first
> > visit to the States.
> > Otherwise he would have been refused at Ellis Island, which was not the
> case.
> >
> > Sorry, but it seems that you have lost here (and not only here).
> >
> > With amusement
> >
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
>
>
Silly attempt, troll, to deceive the folks out there.
For fair use only.
http://tinyurl.com/jjc8
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
>
> "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F33DF07...@sympatico.ca...
> > Ilinden the Macedonian
>
> Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the Great, but the
> Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they launched in the
> early days of the dispute...
Silly attempt, troll, to deceive the folks out there.
WolfWolf
>
> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
> news:bgusfq$leu$2...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > The PSEUDO-VLACH wrote:
> >
> > > myname wrote:
> > >
> > > >That's what we're trying to teach you all the time:
> > > >an ETHNIC Macedonian, originating from European Turkey.>
> > >
> > > The Makedonians were and are Hellenes
> >
> > Nope, not in real world.
> >
> > With amusement
> >
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
>
> Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the Great, but the
> Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they launched in the
> early days of the dispute...
WolfWolf
>
> "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F342894...@sympatico.ca...
> > It is written in Macedonian, Mr. Stu.
> >
> >
> > Yannis wrote:
> >
> > > Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > ...........................
> > > > No Tsapanesku you can call me a Ftcogian or Turkogrekos or stupid
> Latin
> > > > Vlach , Like Tsapanesku with the square Latin Vlach head.
> > >
> > > My chum,
> > > Why Ilinden fighters' oath, that is Krushevo's Manifesto is written in
> Bulgarian?
> > > Yannis
> > > Macedonia, Greece
>
>
> Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the Great, but the
> Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they launched in the
> early days of the dispute...
George S. Tsapanos
>Your logic fails>
According to your logic of course.
WolfWolf
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Your logic fails>
>
> According to your logic of course.
Your logic fails according to all evidence, Tsapan.
Did you know that there are people in Ellis Island records departing from Greece, with
former residence in Greece, yet defining themselves as Roumanians (Vlachs)?
Tsapan, Nicolas
Turkish Roumanian
Milovist, Greece
March 13, 1914
20y
M
S
Chicago
Le Havre, Seine-Inferior, France
++
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >And those Maltani are AAlbanian>
>
> Are you O.K.?
> I am telling you that they tookm the name because they were gold-smiths from
> the word MALAMA=Gold, and you want them as..........Albanians.
> Whats the matter with you? No Albanians ever lived in the VLACHIAN villages, we
> had some Arvanites and that was all.
same difference
June R Harton
June R Harton
June R Harton
June R Harton
June R Harton
June R Harton
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm
http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm
http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid