Interesting Article on Orthodox Church Politics
++
A Place in the Hierarchy
- Or why the Moscow Patriarchate is holding onto Ukrainian Orthodoxy
-------------------------------------------------------------
By Klara GUDZYK, The Day
During the presidential campaign in Kyiv, Ecumenical Patriarch
Bartholomew I, Archbishop of Constantinople, addressed two friendly
messages to the Ukrainian people, expressing his support and approval
of the democratic process in Ukraine. In his second message the
Patriarch greeted the Ukrainian people and Viktor Yushchenko on the
election victory (after the announcement of the preliminary turnout).
These messages may be described as yet another manifestation of the
tectonic shifts caused by the extraordinary events that took place
during the presidential campaign, which were totally unexpected for the
rest of the world (frankly speaking, also for most Ukrainians). Also,
it was an extraordinary move on the part of the Ecumenical Patriarch,
as his office had never publicly demonstrated such attention to
Ukrainian affairs, even less so in the secular domain. For Ukrainian
Orthodox adherents, the Ecumenical Patriarch remains a distant, even
abstract, entity, mostly having to do with the history of Kyivan Rus'
(official religious contacts with the Patriarch of Constantinople were
terminated after the Kyiv See was subordinated to the Moscow
Patriarchate in 1686), although Leonid Kuchma's administration tried
through diplomatic channels to get Bartholomew I involved in solving
Ukrainian Orthodox problems.
Another very important fact is that in his second message Patriarch
Bartholomew I offered to help settle the schism in the Ukrainian
Orthodox Church. Not surprisingly, his messages triggered an immediate
response from the Moscow Patriarchate. The office of external church
contacts sharply denounced the Ecumenical Patriarch's initiative as
the first step in the direction of "redividing" the Orthodox world,
specifically by excluding the Moscow Patriarchate-affiliated UOC from
the Russian Orthodox Church and subordinating Ukrainian Orthodoxy to
the Constantinople See. Such intentions must seem obvious to Moscow,
especially considering the fact that the Constantinople See issued an
official statement in the 1920s, which recognized the canonical
territory of the Moscow Patriarchate only within the boundaries that
were established in 1589, when the patriarchate was established; in
other words, without the Ukrainian Church.
The Moscow Patriarchate's instant response was only natural, because
the point at issue is its supremacy in the Orthodox world, a matter of
the highest priority. This supremacy is now mainly determined by the
size of the church and the number of adherents, religious communities,
temples, monasteries, and convents. The Russian Church remains the
largest in the Orthodox world and it is resolved to maintain its lead
and play a decisive role (in this it has always been supported by the
secular authorities ranging from princes to tsars to Bolsheviks to the
current Russian government). However, according to the historical
canon, the Ecumenical Patriarch occupies first place in the Orthodox
hierarchy and the Patriarch of Moscow, fifth.
How would the ROC's status change if the Ukrainian Orthodox adherents
withdrew? The answer is radical and spells disaster. At present, 10,000
UOC-MP parishes (Moscow-affiliated religious communities in Ukraine)
make up slightly less than one-half of the Russian Church. Therefore,
by losing these religious communities, the ROC would actually lose its
status as the world's largest Orthodox Church. Dear Reader, guess
which church would then be the largest? Correct. The Ukrainian Orthodox
Church, provided it is undivided, sound, and solid. It would have
almost 15,000 communities, considerably more than in Russia.
The ROC's main advantage in the Orthodox world is its size, and thus
it completely depends on the UOC-MP membership. It is not so much a
matter of revenues, not even political influence in Ukraine (as vividly
demonstrated by the presidential campaign), as the prospect of losing
international prestige and having to climb down one rung on the
hierarchical ladder. That is why both the Russian Church and Russian
government are holding fast and paying such close attention to the
UOC-MP.
>From the statement issued by the office of the Moscow Patriarchate's
external church contacts it follows that Moscow's ecclesiastical
diplomats feel certain that Patriarch Bartholomew I intends to include
the Ukrainian Church in his sphere of influence, even place it under
his jurisdiction - in other words, restore the status of the Kyiv See
as it was in Kyivan Rus'. Such assumptions, it should be noted, are
provoked not only by the Moscow Patriarchate's suspicions, but also
by the fact that in his message Patriarch Bartholomew I mentions
Ukraine's one painful problem, namely the church schism, but makes no
mention of another, equally important, issue: granting the Ukrainian
Orthodox Church autocephalous status, meaning complete independence.
Here one ought to compare the size of the Ecumenical Patriarchate (some
3,000 parishes scattered throughout the world) to that of the Ukrainian
Orthodox community (about 15,000 parishes). Also, the size and
influence of the Church of Constantinople, once the de facto ruler of
the entire Orthodox world, disastrously declined after the fall of
Constantinople in 1453.
Assuming that the Ecumenical Patriarchate harbors such intentions (most
likely they exist in the feverish imagination [of the Moscow
Patriarchate]), they are not to the liking of both Moscow and Kyiv. Be
that as it may, admitting a church to the world Orthodox community
involves complicated and time-consuming procedures (even when they have
the support of the Ecumenical Patriarch). For example, the Hellenic
Orthodox Church of Greece remained unrecognized for several decades
after that country became independent; the Moscow bishopric that
withdrew from the Kyiv See had no legal status for almost 140 years,
until the proclamation of the Moscow Patriarchate.
Apparently the presidential campaign in Ukraine also caused
reverberations within church circles, and not only in conjunction with
the Ecumenical Patriarch. There is hardly any doubt that recent events
did little to introduce positive changes to the status and image of the
Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the Moscow Patriarchate in the public
eye. Quite a few parishioners and clergymen did not hold with the
overactive campaign policy of their church, and some even voiced their
disagreement (things like that happen very seldom in a church
community). This, however, does not mean that the situation may change
radically and quickly in this church, or that it will noticeably
distance itself from the Moscow Patriarchate, or that part of the
clergy will revise their attitude to the challenges of Ukrainian
statehood.
Nevertheless, it is safe to assume that the UOC-MP policy will
eventually change, even if gradually, because the days when bishops and
parish priests felt free to act as they pleased in regard to many
issues of national importance are now gone. This author believes that
the most outspoken pro-Russian bishops will be quietly relieved of
their posts, and the so-called Orthodox brotherhoods, etc., will be
called to account. Also, the Ukrainian Church may finally remember that
the divine services are celebrated in the Greek churches in Greek, in
the Georgian ones in Georgian, and in the Orthodox churches of Western
Europe in the languages spoken by the parishioners.
And, finally, we are very grateful to Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew
I.
-------------------
BM
Nikolay Sarmadzhiev
It is rather tragic what happens in Ukrain.
7 Orthodox churches,
mobster, weapons and etc. Many heresies ... it is terrible. The article
is quite bias as well. Patriarch Filariet - he was on the side of
Bulgarian <razkolnitsi> they recently were stopped and only after summit
of all Orthodox Patriarch in Sofia 1998 and wise actions of the Tzar. I
am not even touching Greko- catolics there.
BTW in Bulgaria and any Slavic Orthodox Church (I think) - the service
is in Old Church Slavonic and the <propoved> is in modern Bulgarian. I
doubt there are many people that do not understand church slavonic in
Ukrain and Russia.
++
Well, it depends on the Church. I was in Bulgaria December before last
and again January a year ago. I went to a lot of churches, obviously,
since that is my major focus in life. I noticed things in a state of flux:
1. Some places trying to introduce chant and unfortunately introducing
it in the Chrysanthine notation without a clue (except for a few
geniuses) as to moveable ison and etc. Same deal is going on in
Macedonia with an eye toward teaching simple chant to people so they
will participate. A different thing.
2. I picked up a few copies of new liturgies and services, noticed a
lot of tried and true versions were being ignored.
3. Bad, negative atittude toward Petur Dinev and other collections
tried and true used for decades. Russian Church used all slavonic in
Sofia. Lovely church. Nice RUssian church in Bucharest, too (and quite
a great Bulgarian one)
4. Choirs kind of mixing languages in the compositions, but the
Patriarchate is stressing, even in America!!!!, use of Bulgarian service
(propoved) even when the only sung responses people tend to know are in
slavonic here in the US (and Bulgaria).
5. Kind of a purist atittude toward services. On attending vespers at
the THeology faculty, I tried to look on with a student to sing the
vespers but she tried to hide the book from me. Thankfully, I knew
everything by heart but there is this kind of only we are holy kind of
atittude. Not much accessibility. Difficult for ordinary people to
find service materials with music
6. I spent literally every liturgy in Romania and Bulgaria trying to
protect one little old lady who was short. I would encircle little old
lady with my tall agressive body, muscle her to the front of the
cathedral (any cathedral or church) and literally elbow away big giant
tall strong Bulgarian/Romanian males pushing their way in front of the
every faithful little old ladies. Same deal on taxis and busses where I
would defend them having seats. Every seen an able bodied twenty
something literally leap over an elderly woman to get the seat on the
Marshutno taxi? Same difference.
7. The transition to Orthodoxy has purism on the inside and the same
old commie bull on the outside, for example, going in the fast (post) to
a monastery and passing the Bulgarian traditional na skara places.
8. Some of the towns had more normal Orthodoxy going on than the big
cities. I was delighted to see so many churches with normal activities
in Asenovgrad and how at time for Vespers, olrdinary people stopped
doing whatever they were doing and tried to go to church
>
>
Nikolay Sarmadzhiev
Galia, I am not very good in going to the church (usually) here in America I
started to attend services - in Bulgaria I did not (even now when I am
going back it is very very rare to go to the church).
So I was very interesting to see your describtion of our people in the
church. Only thing I can say - it is sound you have been in the central
churches. Otherwise it is very unlikely to have huge crowd inside I
believe.
> Well, it depends on the Church. I was in Bulgaria December before last
> and again January a year ago. I went to a lot of churches, obviously,
> since that is my major focus in life. I noticed things in a state of
> flux:
>
> 1. Some places trying to introduce chant and unfortunately introducing
> it in the Chrysanthine notation without a clue (except for a few
> geniuses) as to moveable ison and etc. Same deal is going on in
> Macedonia with an eye toward teaching simple chant to people so they
> will participate. A different thing.
What is <chant>?
> 2. I picked up a few copies of new liturgies and services, noticed a
> lot of tried and true versions were being ignored.
Why?
It is not sound like other services, never forgot most of today Bulgaria
services are based on the Greek one (not of the Russian).
> 3. Bad, negative atittude toward Petur Dinev and other collections
> tried and true used for decades. Russian Church used all slavonic in
> Sofia. Lovely church. Nice RUssian church in Bucharest, too (and quite
> a great Bulgarian one)
Who is Petyr Dinev? (in Bulgaria we use 'y' in latin for describing the dark
'a' - Petyr).
Russian church in Sofia is very nice,
Did you catch the Aleksander Nevski one - with the 3 altars, Bulgairan,
Russian and I belive Slavonic?
(it was in constratction two years ago)
At Shipka you can find very nice Russian Church as well.
> 4. Choirs kind of mixing languages in the compositions, but the
> Patriarchate is stressing, even in America!!!!, use of Bulgarian service
> (propoved) even when the only sung responses people tend to know are in
> slavonic here in the US (and Bulgaria).
It is true. Most of the service becoming in Bulgarian - it is since
Exarhiate (and Macedonians that ask for it) on contrary to the Eastern
Bulgarians like Bozveli (Russofile). I believe it was in order to atract
most of the grekomans all over Bulgaria.
BTW propoved is not a service, no?
Service is liturgy, propoved is after that.
> 5. Kind of a purist atittude toward services. On attending vespers at
> the THeology faculty, I tried to look on with a student to sing the
> vespers but she tried to hide the book from me. Thankfully, I knew
> everything by heart but there is this kind of only we are holy kind of
> atittude. Not much accessibility. Difficult for ordinary people to
> find service materials with music
Good for you,
I also finding it strange.
As for matirials - Bulgarian church is very very poor, if you know the
salaries of the priest you would of laugh long. Finally Tzar trying to do
some thing (with introducing benefits and etc.) but it is not enough. They
should start paying the salaries and benefits from the government since it
is the only official religion like in Poland.
>
> 6. I spent literally every liturgy in Romania and Bulgaria trying to
> protect one little old lady who was short. I would encircle little old
Welcome on the Balkans ;-).
> lady with my tall agressive body, muscle her to the front of the
> cathedral (any cathedral or church) and literally elbow away big giant
> tall strong Bulgarian/Romanian males pushing their way in front of the
It is came with democrasy, before it was teach in the school - share, leave
you site for the elderly and usually I was tend to go and help old ladies.
Then the *new democrats* came and said Ego is everything, old people only
slowing us. You have no idea how that change. Before if you do not make a
site in the bus whole bus started to scream on you - now ...
> every faithful little old ladies. Same deal on taxis and busses where I
> would defend them having seats. Every seen an able bodied twenty
> something literally leap over an elderly woman to get the seat on the
> Marshutno taxi? Same difference.
True, sad, should be change - I am very hopeful with rising again of the
common values.
>
> 7. The transition to Orthodoxy has purism on the inside and the same
> old commie bull on the outside, for example, going in the fast (post) to
> a monastery and passing the Bulgarian traditional na skara places.
commie bull - never been in Bulgaria (I think). It came now, at least for my
13 years live in communism I can tell you the respect to the elderly was
very strong. And in the church (where some times my nanny used to take me)
it was different as well.
> 8. Some of the towns had more normal Orthodoxy going on than the big
> cities. I was delighted to see so many churches with normal activities
> in Asenovgrad and how at time for Vespers, olrdinary people stopped
> doing whatever they were doing and tried to go to church
Sould be, I am from Sofia and I know only the bully once.
Finally - Bulgarian society started to changing again to the individualism
(when democrasy came, the most important saying /opnly/ was chovek za
choveka e vylk - you do the math), sad I agree but in the poorness and
hopelessness that were in Bulgaria till 2001 you really could not blame the
<vylchia> cheracter. Now, many Bulgarians have enough money, the sense of
opritism comming, new churches, new converts (turks, pomaks and etc) could
be found. And it is still in the blood to share - you should have seen it,
all relatives and friends ask you to come at dinner and even if they do not
have money and food for them they trying to fix the best.
If I am in Bulgaria, come and visit me - and you shall see :-) if it is
Gergiov Den or Arhangelov den - we can go up in the Pirin to my father in
law village and try the agne na shish (that I disslike and all relatives of
my brother in law look at me as a alien :-) ).
++
> Hi,
>
> Galia, I am not very good in going to the church (usually) here in America I
> started to attend services - in Bulgaria I did not (even now when I am
> going back it is very very rare to go to the church).
> So I was very interesting to see your describtion of our people in the
> church. Only thing I can say - it is sound you have been in the central
> churches. Otherwise it is very unlikely to have huge crowd inside I
> believe.
In the smaller churches, it was not as crowded as churches are in
Macedonia (which can be a pretty amazing scene with people leaving so
that others an have a turn going inside, even on minor feast days), but
pretty crowded nonetheless. Even during the middle of the week, I would
see a lot of people going in to pray for a few minutes, and of course,
in Macedonia and Bulgaria, you have a lot of people regularly going for
holy water at one or another izvorche.
>
>
>>Well, it depends on the Church. I was in Bulgaria December before last
>>and again January a year ago. I went to a lot of churches, obviously,
>>since that is my major focus in life. I noticed things in a state of
>>flux:
>>
>>1. Some places trying to introduce chant and unfortunately introducing
>>it in the Chrysanthine notation without a clue (except for a few
>>geniuses) as to moveable ison and etc. Same deal is going on in
>>Macedonia with an eye toward teaching simple chant to people so they
>>will participate. A different thing.
>
>
> What is <chant>?
chant in Orthodoxy is one line of melody to various patterns and scales
of differing interval (space between the notes)values with others
singing one note or so as a kind of baseline (the ison)
Contrasting with chant is polyphony (harmonizing voices)
See http://musicart.imbm.bas.bg/BM_3_2001.htm
>
>
>>2. I picked up a few copies of new liturgies and services, noticed a
>>lot of tried and true versions were being ignored.
>
>
> Why?
purist stuff - wanting to get back to purer church historic roots
without westernization
> It is not sound like other services, never forgot most of today Bulgaria
> services are based on the Greek one (not of the Russian).
>
>
>>3. Bad, negative atittude toward Petur Dinev and other collections
>>tried and true used for decades. Russian Church used all slavonic in
>>Sofia. Lovely church. Nice RUssian church in Bucharest, too (and quite
>>a great Bulgarian one)
>
>
> Who is Petyr Dinev? (in Bulgaria we use 'y' in latin for describing the dark
> 'a' - Petyr).
A church music composer. He put first in two parts, then in three
parts, traditional melodies, many of which were Macedonian instead of
readily available Bulgarian ones. b.1889-d. 1983
Listen to MP3 of four of his transcriptions and harmonizations here:
http://www.liturgica.com/htmlsite/musicInfo_catNo_AL018.html
If you listen to only one, please listen to his rendition of the Psalm
(By the Rivers of Babylon, There We Lay Down and Wept)given first
I am very fond of Dinev, personally. I think he took something normal
(Bulgarian polyphony, known worldwide) and applied it to medieval chant
in a way easy for people to sing. Instead of having to learn difficult
Chrysanthine notation (Patriarchal Music School of Athens, third type of
pneumatic notation), he put time honored services into accesssible and
easy to learn western notation, thereby popularizing Church music.
> Russian church in Sofia is very nice,
> Did you catch the Aleksander Nevski one - with the 3 altars, Bulgairan,
> Russian and I belive Slavonic?
Yes, and I spoke with the choir directos. I only missed a few churches
in Sofia
> (it was in constratction two years ago)
Some restoration was still being done in the nave when I was there a
year ago
> At Shipka you can find very nice Russian Church as well.
>
>
>>4. Choirs kind of mixing languages in the compositions, but the
>>Patriarchate is stressing, even in America!!!!, use of Bulgarian service
>>(propoved) even when the only sung responses people tend to know are in
>>slavonic here in the US (and Bulgaria).
>
>
> It is true. Most of the service becoming in Bulgarian - it is since
> Exarhiate (and Macedonians that ask for it)
Macedonians have had their services in Macedonian regularly since the
60s so they are used to hearing in the local language.
Since I have sung myself in slavonic choirs for over 35 years, I am
personally very fond of slavonic, and in America people are used to it
from many nationalities which makes it kind of a church lingua franca.
Maybe twenty-thirty years ago we used to even have classes in slavonic
at church where slavonic was taught as a living language (but in Russian
rescension slavonic, which itself was Macedonianized twice in Russia
over the centuries, but nevermind that) but these days it is becoming
more and more useless as church after church goes to English services.
on contrary to the Eastern
> Bulgarians like Bozveli (Russofile). I believe it was in order to atract
> most of the grekomans all over Bulgaria.
>
> BTW propoved is not a service, no?
> Service is liturgy, propoved is after that.
THere are numerous services, even the hours are services. Liturgy is
just the most improtant service. Daily would be hours, Matins, hours,
liturgy, hours, vespers or vigil, then start over again. Some of these
are combined.
For people unfamiliar with the regular services, I recommend the classic
_Orthodox Service Book_ by Isabel Hapgood. Her translations are very
old fashioned English and not poetic as some but she explains things
well. Plus, a person now a saint recommended and approved her work.
She is explaining the Russian tradition but there are only minor
differences.
>
>
>>5. Kind of a purist atittude toward services. On attending vespers at
>>the THeology faculty, I tried to look on with a student to sing the
>>vespers but she tried to hide the book from me. Thankfully, I knew
>>everything by heart but there is this kind of only we are holy kind of
>>atittude. Not much accessibility. Difficult for ordinary people to
>>find service materials with music
>
>
> Good for you,
> I also finding it strange.
> As for matirials - Bulgarian church is very very poor, if you know the
> salaries of the priest you would of laugh long.
American priests are also poor. For the priviledge of being a priest,
after paying for a long education on top of their other education, they
often work full time jobs to support serving for free.
Finally Tzar trying to do
> some thing (with introducing benefits and etc.) but it is not enough. They
> should start paying the salaries and benefits from the government since it
> is the only official religion like in Poland.
Yugoslavia used to have a nice system of salaries for all religious
occupations, pensions and benefits, etc. so a Moslem Madjdi woulc be
paid like an archpriest, for example - it depended on years of
education. Orthodoxy is not the only official religion in Bulgaria.
>
>
>>6. I spent literally every liturgy in Romania and Bulgaria trying to
>>protect one little old lady who was short. I would encircle little old
>
>
> Welcome on the Balkans ;-).
>
>
>>lady with my tall agressive body, muscle her to the front of the
>>cathedral (any cathedral or church) and literally elbow away big giant
>>tall strong Bulgarian/Romanian males pushing their way in front of the
>
>
> It is came with democrasy, before it was teach in the school - share, leave
> you site for the elderly and usually I was tend to go and help old ladies.
> Then the *new democrats* came and said Ego is everything, old people only
> slowing us. You have no idea how that change. Before if you do not make a
> site in the bus whole bus started to scream on you - now ...
Now there is little respect for the elderly or pregnant women. There is
sometimes too much respect for children (spoiling, giving them
everything they want, tyrants with tantrums training instead of gentle
teaching and guiding)
>
>
>>every faithful little old ladies. Same deal on taxis and busses where I
>>would defend them having seats. Every seen an able bodied twenty
>>something literally leap over an elderly woman to get the seat on the
>>Marshutno taxi? Same difference.
>
>
> True, sad, should be change - I am very hopeful with rising again of the
> common values.
I think things are improving. I was staying in one small place for a
while that fascinated me becuase I imagined it to be still a very
communist town:
1. The pharmacy was perpetually closed and so a lot of normal needs
were difficult to impossible to obtain
2. Using the post office required huge areas of bureaucracy to get
things done in a mediocre way ( half a day to arrange the idea of
sending packages, day for packages to sit and then have slips filled out
to send them, day of sending out, no string to tie books together, for
example, silly 2 kilo limits, several types of identification with
personal information required for simple task of being allowed to mail,
etc.)
3. There were three large drinking halls and no church. the entire
town arranged itself from noon onwards at one or another of these spirit
palaces until stuporific. The more polite drank at home.
4. (this won't exactly give it away)Majka Bulgaria statue in the town
center.
5. Unrelieving mud.
6. Gossip
7. Charming people
But elsewhere I saw church daycare centers, fairly high level of
schooling in various disciplines (but less accessibility and more
unnecessary barriers to faculty), good libraries with good access, well
functioning cyber cafes (, relatively speaking), people joyful over
small things and grateful for small blessings, generosity in the midst
of hoodlums.
>
>
>>7. The transition to Orthodoxy has purism on the inside and the same
>>old commie bull on the outside, for example, going in the fast (post) to
>>a monastery and passing the Bulgarian traditional na skara places.
>
>
> commie bull - never been in Bulgaria (I think). It came now, at least for my
> 13 years live in communism I can tell you the respect to the elderly was
> very strong. And in the church (where some times my nanny used to take me)
> it was different as well.
I meant here treating the church as a tourist attraction instead of a
living and holy institution so one passes a whole bunch of meat grilling
places at the very foot of the monastery gates during a fast. Orthodoxy
is still a tourist industry in Bulgaria. Bulgaria is not alone in this.
>
>
>>8. Some of the towns had more normal Orthodoxy going on than the big
>>cities. I was delighted to see so many churches with normal activities
>>in Asenovgrad and how at time for Vespers, olrdinary people stopped
>>doing whatever they were doing and tried to go to church
>
>
> Sould be, I am from Sofia and I know only the bully once.
Some of the older ladies stake out a space early for the liturgies so
that they can be near where they can see. Otherwise, it is difficult.
Bulgaria has still not moved to frequent communion, i.e. people
confessing regularly but perhaps not every week with a chosen spiritual
father, going to communion every week. These are desperate times and in
the transitional countries one often sees a mad scramble for anything
reliving the day to day grimness of survival in a difficult ill paid
existence. So some icon print handed out, or a blessing from a visiting
bishop or even being able to kiss the cross after the service or have a
peice of nafora - all these things are some mystical relief from day to
day reality. There is a hunger for holiness.
>
> Finally - Bulgarian society started to changing again to the individualism
> (when democrasy came, the most important saying /opnly/ was chovek za
> choveka e vylk - you do the math), sad I agree but in the poorness and
> hopelessness that were in Bulgaria till 2001 you really could not blame the
> <vylchia> cheracter.
I actually own a copy of one of the most philosophical cookbooks ever
written in English, called How to Cook a Wolf (from the expression in
English, "to keep the wolf from the door"), mostly oriented toward
elegant survival.
Now, many Bulgarians have enough money, the sense of
> opritism comming, new churches, new converts (turks, pomaks and etc) could
> be found.
I think there is more and more hope that EU membership is bringing new
opportunities, that the wait is almost over, but that it is important to
prepare in the best way possible. But the process is tiring.
And it is still in the blood to share - you should have seen it,
> all relatives and friends ask you to come at dinner and even if they do not
> have money and food for them they trying to fix the best.
You are right.
> If I am in Bulgaria, come and visit me - and you shall see :-) if it is
> Gergiov Den or Arhangelov den - we can go up in the Pirin to my father in
> law village and try the agne na shish (that I disslike and all relatives of
> my brother in law look at me as a alien :-) ).
Me, I love lamb on a spit anytime, especially since the Balkan lambs are
better than the American ones. You ARE an alien if you don't like it.
Americans are also hospitable but in the Balkans there is a real
practice of the Hospitality of Adam.
>
Nikolay Sarmadzhiev
the only thing I can say,
you have been in other Bulgaria,
V mojata Bylgaria - nema nikakva duhovna nujda - ili pone az ne ja useshtah
v horata, vseki se e zapasil s kansko tarpenie (pone v shupluka go ima v
izobilie) i chaka da se opraviat neshtata ot *gore* - sega ot Evropejskia
Syuz. Mladite (kat men ;-) ), gledat da napravat nekoja *dalavera* ili da
stanat *borcheta-mafioti*. Hubavo e che mina naj-loshoto i se normalizirat
neshtata - no chestno ne sym videl mnogo hora po cyrkvite (ama i az ne sym
hodil de) nito sym chul mnogo da hodile tam.
Tova za nekolkoto restoranta (krychmi) i bez cyrkva - e napylno vyzmojno i e
vsekidnevie. Ochujdenieto (westernization) e mnogo silno. I to ne e ot
vchera, a ot pone 20 godini (taka sym chul).
Pone 10 godini ni se nabivashe che sme polu-hora (v sravnenie s Evropejcite)
che ne e hubavo da si bylgarin, che bylgarin e diagnoza, mnogo hora se
otkazaha ot bylgarskoto - ama na - pak ocelehme :-) - na puk na vsichki i
se razvivame dobre - vypreki che nemame nikoj golem brat ili <zakrilnik> ot
zapad - a sega veche i ot iztok.
Ej gi Rumyncite - sa s francia, hyrvatite i slovencite s germania,
chehite/ungarcite i poljacite cela evropa im pomagashe - a v bylgaria -
nikoj.
Vij moldovskite i ukrainski Bylgari koito sega se zaselvat v bylgaria sa
dosta dobri i skromni hora - da vidim kolko shte izdyrjat predi da gi
razvalim i teh. Makedoncite - te sa jasni - pyrvata godina sa macedonci,
vtorata sa stanali kat nas che i po-zle.
Ne znam kak e po selata - ama opredeleno v Sofia e tochno taka. A pirin se
prevryshta v atrakcia na gyrcholiata (koito syshto si spomniha che sa
bylgari) i masa gyrci se zaselvat v Sandanski i regiona - osnovno
pensioneri de - koeto e hubavo.
Tuk ne govoria che dori i albanci pochnaha da idvat da se zaselvat v
pirinsko. Vyobshte zapadnala rabota.
I kato vsichko se otkroiava Bojan Saryev i plovdivskata espiskopia (ne che
az obicham plovdivchani - sakyn) che strojat cyrkvi po Rodopite, pokrystvat
pomacite i turcite - ama ot drugata strana sa sauditite i masata pari za
isliamski fundamentalism v rodopite - i te ne pipat turcite ami s pomacite
rabotat. (Osnovnata baza im e pak v Pirin).