Bulgarian songs from Macedonia
Dimitar Nikolov
Below I will post the text of two beautiful Bulgarian songs from
Macedonia. They are in Bulgarian without an English translation so
our Greek friends may not understand them. You are invited to listen
to these songs as well as to other Bulgarian songs (a lot of them are
from Macedonia) on
http://pisa.rockefeller.edu:8080/Bulgaria/sounds/
In this Bulgarian http home page you will also find a lot of useful
information about Bulgaria (photos, poetry, lists of literature on Bulgaria
and Macedonia, old and new maps of Bulgaria and the Balkans, etc, etc...)
So take a look at http://pisa.rockefeller.edu:8080/Bulgaria/.
I am interested in learning from the serbo-macedonians:
1. Do they know these songs?
2. In what language do they think are these songs?
3. Can they translate the songs in their "literaturen" "macedonian"
language so we can sing them "correctly" on our next party :-).
The two songs (the way we Bulgarians sing them):
--------------------------------------------------------
BILJANA PLATNO BELESHE
Biljana platno beleshe,
kraj Ohridskite izvori
Otdole idat vinari,
vinari belograjdani.
Biljana duma vinari:
- Vinari, belograjdani,
pokraj kervana karajte,
da ne mi platno zgazite.
Da ne mi platno sgazite,
platnoto mi e darovno -
za svekur i za svekurva,
za zulva i za deveri
-Ako ti platno zgazime
so vino ke ti go platime,
so vino ke ti go platime,
so vurla ljuta rakija.
Ne vi go sakam vinoto.
toku si sakam maldoto
Shto nosi fesche nad oko,
i mene gleda pod oko.
- Momcheto ni e glaveno,
v nedelya ke go jenime.
Za nego kervan karame
so vino i so rakija.
----------------------------------------------------------
KOGA ZASHUMAT BUKITE
Koga zashumat shumite bukite,
Koga zashumat shumite plachat za voivodata kapetanot.
Drugari verni drugari, drugari,
Koga ke selo pojdete, stignete,
Koga ke selo stignete so konie da ne tropate,
So konie da ne tropate, so pushki da ne farlate.
Da ne ve chue majka mi starata,
Da ne ve chue majka mi ke ve prasha za mene ama za mene.
Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kostadin,
Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kostadin voivodata kapetanot?
Sin ti se mamo ojeni,
Sin ti se mamo ojeni za Makedonija porobena.
----------------------------------------------------------
--
Disclaimer: the expressed opinions are mine.
--
Dimitar Nikolov
The Rockefeller University, (212)327-8339
Internet: nik...@rockvax.rockefeller.edu
Goce Naumoski
>Below I will post the text of two beautiful Bulgarian songs from
>Macedonia. They are in Bulgarian without an English translation so
^^^^^^^^^
>our Greek friends may not understand them. You are invited to listen
>to these songs as well as to other Bulgarian songs (a lot of them are
>from Macedonia) on
> http://pisa.rockefeller.edu:8080/Bulgaria/sounds/
>In this Bulgarian http home page you will also find a lot of useful
>information about Bulgaria (photos, poetry, lists of literature on Bulgaria
>and Macedonia, old and new maps of Bulgaria and the Balkans, etc, etc...)
>So take a look at http://pisa.rockefeller.edu:8080/Bulgaria/.
>I am interested in learning from the serbo-macedonians:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>1. Do they know these songs?
>2. In what language do they think are these songs?
>3. Can they translate the songs in their "literaturen" "macedonian"
>language so we can sing them "correctly" on our next party :-).
As a Macedonian (both by citizenship of the RoM and by ethnicity) I think
I should react on this posting of Mr. Nikolov. First a question to Mr. Nikolov:
"Who are those "serbo-macedonians" you are mentioning?". Is this the official
stand of your country about some people (or ethnic group)?
The readers must be aware of what the bulgarians are posting (especially last
few months) about Macedonia. In all those postings they are (more or less)
openly trying to present Macedonia just as a region (although Bulgaria was the
first country recognized Macedonia), the same as the past when important
events have been happenning, and they say that there
are serbo-macedonians, bulgarian-macedonians, etc. Know that such terms
(except for propaganda matters) were never used. They (and also other neighbours
of us) are ignoring the fact that the Macedonians as an ethnic group are the
oldest ones in the Balkans. However it is also a fact that since the fall of
Yugoslavia there are also Macedonians by citizenship (PS. Before the break-up
of Yugoslavia, internally Macedonia and other YU-republics have had their
citizens, who in the same time were citizens of SFRY, as internationally
recognized). And it is also a fact that ethnic Macedonians live in all
neighbouring countries (and elsewhere in the world).
By using the terms of Mr. Nikolov, you can say there are also
"macedonian-macedonians", which is of course an absurd.
To finish this, the citizens of Republic of Macedonia are Macedonians, but of
different ethnic origin (Macedonian, Albanian, Turkish, Vlach, Gypsy, etc.).
Now about the songs. By adding a label (post- or prefix) to the Macedonian folk
songs, you cannot make them Bulgarian. The readers must be aware that in the
last (20th) century, many Macedonians have left Macedonia either in the
neighbouring countries or elsewhere in the world. After the 1903 events and the
Ilinden uprising, many reach Macedonians went to Bulgaria (and other free
of Ottoman occupation Balkan countries). Similar things have also
happened in (and after) the time of the WWI, and the WWII (when the
Bulgarian fascist army went out of Macedonia.), when some ethnic
Bulgarians (and many Macedonians) went to Bulgaria.
By knowing this it wouldn't be a surprise if they have taken with them
something of our cultural heritage (like the folk songs).
Can somebody ask him(her)self how (and why) the songs of my hometown Ohrid can
be Bulgarian, how can the songs my parents, grand-parents, and their
grand-parents were singing can be Bulgarians? How can theses songs that
every child hears from the mouth of his(her) Macedonian mother after minutes
or hours he (she) is born be Bulgarian?
There are also many other hows and whys, but this time I'll left it here.
Several times I've posted corrections to some songs posted on the net buy some
Bulgarians. However, it is very well known that Macedonians do like to sign.
You can find songs with same text but different music, and vice versa. You
also can find songs with different words in them, like names of heroes etc.
This time the first song is in (more or less) good formi (ok, there are still
some changed words, but ...). (BTW. When a person
send me the song "BILJANA PLATNO BELESHE", there was something like
"kraj Ohridskite ezera", I asked whether he(she) knew how many "Ohridski ezera"
there exist? The person was surprised, but of course it can happen
when a song is copied. Of course I corrected the song).
At the end, I will state that we have nothing against using our falk songs
by anybody, just the opposite, we will be very happy to spread them around.
But I don't like when people are falsifying them and using for propaganda
purposes.
The second song I will correct, and I hope that next they will post the
correct one (Mr. Nikolov, :-) ).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>KOGA ZASHUMAT BUKITE
SLUSHAM KAJ SHUMAT SHUMITE
>Koga zashumat shumite bukite,
>Koga zashumat shumite plachat za voivodata kapetanot.
Slusham kaj shumat shumite, bukite (2)
Slusham kaj shumite,
kaj plachat za vojvodata, kapidanot.
>Drugari verni drugari, drugari,
>Koga ke selo pojdete, stignete,
>Koga ke selo stignete so konie da ne tropate,
>So konie da ne tropate, so pushki da ne farlate.
Drugari, verni drugari, Makedonci (2)
Koga ke v selo vrvite,
so konji da ne tropate, lele igrate.
So konji da ne tropate, tropate (2)
so konji da ne tropate,
so pushki da ne frlate, lele frlate.
>Da ne ve chue majka mi starata,
>Da ne ve chue majka mi ke ve prasha za mene ama za mene.
Da ne ve chue majka mi starata (2)
Da ne ve chue majka mi,
da ne prasha za mene, aman za mene.
>Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kostadin,
>Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kostadin voivodata kapetanot?
Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kostadin (2)
Kade e sin mi Kostadin,
Kostadin vojvodata kapidanot?
>Sin ti se mamo ojeni,
>Sin ti se mamo ojeni za Makedonija porobena.
Vie ke nejze kashite, rechite (2)
sin ti se majko ozheni,
za edna Makedonka porobena, crna zemja.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last warning, even the text of the song was not quite right, it is written
(more or less) in the dialects of west parts of Macedonia (actually in the
Ohrid dialect). I'have also written the song as is (I've not used
literary macedonian words). Be aware that the language the songs are written
is a language of the western part of Macedonia (with some words written using
the Bulgarian latin transcription, and some changed to look like
Bulgarian). I suggest to let somebody (who knows both Macedonian and Bulgarian)
to compare the song in both of them.
And a last question to Mr. Nikolov: since when has the Bulgarian language the
word "ke" (pronounced "kje")? For the readers that do not speak Bulgarian
they are using the word "shte". This word is (usually) used for future tenses.
Would you (Mr. Nikolov) be so nice to translate the songs in modern
Bulgarian (literary) language, and I'll do that in Macedonian. Then we (and
the readers, maybe) can compare both versions?
>--
>Disclaimer: the expressed opinions are mine.
The same applies to my statements.
>--
>Dimitar Nikolov
>The Rockefeller University, (212)327-8339
>Internet: nik...@rockvax.rockefeller.edu
Regards,
Goce.
Dimitar Nikolov
: nik...@skbind.Rockefeller.edu (Dimitar Nikolov) writes:
: >I am interested in learning from the serbo-macedonians:
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >1. Do they know these songs?
: >2. In what language do they think are these songs?
: >3. Can they translate the songs in their "literaturen" "macedonian"
: >language so we can sing them "correctly" on our next party :-).
: As a Macedonian (both by citizenship of the RoM and by ethnicity) I think
: I should react on this posting of Mr. Nikolov. First a question to Mr. Nikolov:
: "Who are those "serbo-macedonians" you are mentioning?". Is this the official
: stand of your country about some people (or ethnic group)?
Mr. Naumoski, You know quite well the official stand of mine country. In my
postings (as could be suspected by the disclaimer) I write only my personal
opinions.
Under the "term" serbo-macedonians as you can guess I have in mind Macedonians
(coming from the region of Macedonia) brainwashed by the Serbs into believing
that they are separate nation and ethnicity dating back to Alexander.
Actually we should pay the due respect to the Serbs - if they were a little
bit more foreseeing the name of your family would have been changed from
Naumov to Naumovich (not Naumoski), and you would have been taught in
school that serbian is your mother tongue (not the serbianized bulgarian,
that is now known as "literaturen Macedonian")
: The readers must be aware of what the bulgarians are posting (especially last
: few months) about Macedonia. In all those postings they are (more or less)
: openly trying to present Macedonia just as a region (although Bulgaria was the
Exactly Mr. Naumoski, Macedonia is a geographical region and the majority
of its population used to be of Bulgarian origin and ethnicity.
Since in the region also lived quite a bit of Greeks and Turks it is quite
OK to use the terms Bulgarian-macedonian, Greek-macedonian, Turkish-macedonian,
as for the serbo-macedoninas see above.
: first country recognized Macedonia), the same as the past when important
No question that Bulgaria will recognize Macedonia as an independent country.
Hundreds of thousands of Bulgarians have died during the last centuries
for the liberation of Macedonia. (Of course after it was clear that
unification of Bulgaria and Macedonia (the region occupied at different
times by Turks, Serbs and Greeks) was not politically realistic the
hopes and struggles of the Bulgarians from Macedonia were directed towards
an independent Macedonia. A lot of proud Macedonians died for that cause in
the Serbian hands in the last 80 (even the last 50) years, but I am sure
you don't know anything about that.
: events have been happenning, and they say that there
: are serbo-macedonians, bulgarian-macedonians, etc. Know that such terms
: (except for propaganda matters) were never used. They (and also other neighbours
: of us) are ignoring the fact that the Macedonians as an ethnic group are the
: oldest ones in the Balkans.
Dating back to Sasho Makedonski - I knew that.
: However it is also a fact that since the fall of
: Yugoslavia there are also Macedonians by citizenship (PS. Before the break-up
: of Yugoslavia, internally Macedonia and other YU-republics have had their
: citizens, who in the same time were citizens of SFRY, as internationally
: recognized). And it is also a fact that ethnic Macedonians live in all
: neighbouring countries (and elsewhere in the world).
: By using the terms of Mr. Nikolov, you can say there are also
: "macedonian-macedonians", which is of course an absurd.
: To finish this, the citizens of Republic of Macedonia are Macedonians, but of
: different ethnic origin (Macedonian, Albanian, Turkish, Vlach, Gypsy, etc.).
I wander Mr. Naumoski whether there are any Macedonians of Bulgarian
origin in the RoM.
: Now about the songs. By adding a label (post- or prefix) to the Macedonian folk
: songs, you cannot make them Bulgarian. The readers must be aware that in the
: last (20th) century, many Macedonians have left Macedonia either in the
: neighbouring countries or elsewhere in the world. After the 1903 events and the
: Ilinden uprising, many reach Macedonians went to Bulgaria (and other free
After the Illinden Bulgarian uprising, most of the Macedonian refugees
went to the free parts of their fatherland - Bulgaria.
: of Ottoman occupation Balkan countries). Similar things have also
: happened in (and after) the time of the WWI, and the WWII (when the
: Bulgarian fascist army went out of Macedonia.), when some ethnic
: Bulgarians (and many Macedonians) went to Bulgaria.
Poor things to follow the bad fashist -the Bulgarians to Bulgaria when the
good Serbs are coming, they were shurely crazy these Macedonians.
: By knowing this it wouldn't be a surprise if they have taken with them
: something of our cultural heritage (like the folk songs).
: Can somebody ask him(her)self how (and why) the songs of my hometown Ohrid can
: be Bulgarian, how can the songs my parents, grand-parents, and their
: grand-parents were singing can be Bulgarians?
Because the population of Ohrid used to be mostly Bulgarian - you are an
intelligent man - read some non-serbian literature on the subject.
If your grand parents are alive talk to them, ask them why did they change
their names, why they were celebrating every time the Bulgarian army
entered Macedonia, what did they and their parents think of their
ethnical belonging 60 years ago, etc. If the fear implanted in them by the
serbo-communist has started to fade they may tell you some very interested
things.
: How can theses songs that
: every child hears from the mouth of his(her) Macedonian mother after minutes
: or hours he (she) is born be Bulgarian?
In the same way that the songs
every child hears from the mouth of his(her) Dobrudjan mother after minutes
or hours he (she) is born are Bulgarian?
: There are also many other hows and whys, but this time I'll left it here.
It is up to you to seek knowledge, you know. If you don't want to know
the truth no one can be of much help.
: Several times I've posted corrections to some songs posted on the net buy some
: Bulgarians. However, it is very well known that Macedonians do like to sign.
Bulgarians in general do like to sing.
: You can find songs with same text but different music, and vice versa. You
: also can find songs with different words in them, like names of heroes etc.
: This time the first song is in (more or less) good formi (ok, there are still
: some changed words, but ...). (BTW. When a person
: send me the song "BILJANA PLATNO BELESHE", there was something like
: "kraj Ohridskite ezera", I asked whether he(she) knew how many "Ohridski ezera"
: there exist? The person was surprised, but of course it can happen
: when a song is copied. Of course I corrected the song).
Good for You! You should join some of our parties so we can sing together.
: At the end, I will state that we have nothing against using our falk songs
: by anybody, just the opposite, we will be very happy to spread them around.
: But I don't like when people are falsifying them and using for propaganda
: purposes.
I usually use Bulgarian songs for entertainment, not propaganda.
: The second song I will correct, and I hope that next they will post the
: correct one (Mr. Nikolov, :-) ).
No problem.
Actually I posted the text as it is in the version of this song that can
be heard on http://pisa.rockefeller.edu:8080/Bulgaria/sounds/. In the
same place you can see the picture of the band that plays the song -
yes they are both Bulgarians and Macedonians (you may not be aware of this
fact, but actually there are many many people that are both Bulgarians
and Macedonians).
As you noted above there are numerous versions of the texts of popular
folk songs.
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: >KOGA ZASHUMAT BUKITE
: SLUSHAM KAJ SHUMAT SHUMITE
: >Koga zashumat shumite bukite,
: >Koga zashumat shumite plachat za voivodata kapetanot.
: Slusham kaj shumat shumite, bukite (2)
: Slusham kaj shumite,
: kaj plachat za vojvodata, kapidanot.
actually most often we sing this as:
"Slushai..." Not "Slusham..."
: (text deleted)
: One last warning, even the text of the song was not quite right, it is written
: (more or less) in the dialects of west parts of Macedonia (actually in the
: Ohrid dialect). I'have also written the song as is (I've not used
: literary macedonian words). '
I say that the song is written in Bulgarian and you can believe me because I
am Bulgarian and I know Bulgarian when I see it.
Fortunately these songs are quite old and there are no serbian words in them.
: Be aware that the language the songs are written
: is a language of the western part of Macedonia (with some words written using
: the Bulgarian latin transcription, and some changed to look like
: Bulgarian). I suggest to let somebody (who knows both Macedonian and Bulgarian)
: to compare the song in both of them.
: And a last question to Mr. Nikolov: since when has the Bulgarian language the
: word "ke" (pronounced "kje")? For the readers that do not speak Bulgarian
: they are using the word "shte". This word is (usually) used for future tenses.
In different parts of Bulgaria instead of the word shte are used: she, che,
ke, etc. Both "ke" and "che" are used by Macedonians.
: Would you (Mr. Nikolov) be so nice to translate the songs in modern
: Bulgarian (literary) language, and I'll do that in Macedonian. Then we (and
: the readers, maybe) can compare both versions?
I would not call that "translation" but I will surely be happy to do it.
Macedonian Bulgarian: Literaturen Bulgarian:
-------------------- ---------------------
BILJANA PLATNO BELESHE BILJANA PLATNO BELESHE
Biljana platno beleshe, Biljana platno beleshe,
kraj Ohridskite izvori kraj Ohridskite izvori
Otdole idat vinari, Otdolo idat vinari,
vinari belograjdani. vinari belograjdani.
Biljana duma vinari: Biljana duma na vinarite:
- Vinari, belograjdani, - Vinari, belograjdani,
pokraj kervana karajte, pokraj kervana karajte,
da ne mi platno zgazite. da ne mi platnoto zgazite.
Da ne mi platno sgazite, Da ne mi platnoto sgazite,
platnoto mi e darovno - platnoto mi e za dar -
za svekur i za svekurva, za svekur i za svekurva,
za zulva i za deveri za zulva i za deveri
-Ako ti platno zgazime -Ako ti platnoto zgazime
so vino ke ti go platime, sas vino shte ti go platime,
so vino ke ti go platime, sas vino shte ti go platime,
so vurla ljuta rakija. sas vurla ljuta rakija.
Ne vi go sakam vinoto. Ne vi go iskam vinoto.
toku si sakam maldoto samo si iskam maldoto
Shto nosi fesche nad oko, Zashtoto nosi fesche nad oko,
i mene gleda pod oko. i mene gleda pod oko.
- Momcheto ni e glaveno, - Momcheto ni e glaveno,
v nedelya ke go jenime. v nedelya shte go jenime.
Za nego kervan karame Za nego kervana karame
so vino i so rakija. sas vino i sas rakija.
Gotse's version of the second song:
Macedonian Bulgarian: Literaturen Bulgarian:
-------------------- ---------------------
SLUSHAM KAJ SHUMAT SHUMITE SLUSHAM KAK SHUMAT SHUMITE
Slusham kaj shumat shumite, bukite Slusham kak shumat shumite, bukite
Slusham kaj shumite, Slusham kak shumite,
kaj plachat za vojvodata, kapidanot. kak plachat za vojvodata, kapitanat.
Drugari, verni drugari, Makedonci Drugari, verni drugari, Makedonci
Koga ke v selo vrvite, Kogato shte varvite v selo,
so konji da ne tropate, lele igrate. sas kone da ne tropate, lele igraete.
So konji da ne tropate, tropate sas kone da ne tropate, tropate
so konji da ne tropate, sas kone da ne tropate,
so pushki da ne frlate, lele frlate sas pushki da ne hvarliate, lele hvarliate
Da ne ve chue majka mi starata Da ne vi chue majka mi, starata
Da ne ve chue majka mi, Da ne vi chue majka mi
da ne prasha za mene, aman za mene. da ne pita za mene, ama za mene.
Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kostadin Kade e sinat mi Kostadin, Kostadin
Kade e sin mi Kostadin, Kade e sinat mi Kostadin,
Kostadin vojvodata kapidanot? Kostadin vojvodata kapitanat?
Vie ke nejze kashite, rechite Vie shte i kazhete, rechete
sin ti se majko ozheni, sinat ti se majko ozheni,
za edna Makedonka porobena, crna zemja. za edna Makedonka porobena, cherna zemja
------------------------
Thats it!
Anyone who finds the ten differences is eligible for a reward :-).
I am now expecting the "literaturen Macedonian" version and then we all
can answer the to-be-or-not-to-be question: "Ije li sa Bugarskijot i
Makedonskijot ijazik slichni?" :-) (this is: "are the Bulgarian and the
Macedonian languages similar" in serbo-bulgarian which sounds to me
like "litaraturen Macedonian").
: Regards,
: Goce.
Pozdravi, Mitko
--
Disclaimer: the expressed opinions are mine.