BOUZOUKI
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Photos Hajigeorgiou ]
[ Posted on 10 May 1996 18:54:58 GMT ]
Calling all bouzouki players, or admirers of the instrument. Let's try
to get a discussion going on the instrument, its history, sound, players,
challenging instrumentals, etc.
I have read in a music catalogue that the saz (sazi) is the grandfather
of the Greek bouzouki. Comments? I have seen photographs of the saz, and
must admit that it looks very similar to the modern bouzouki. However, the
sound of the two instruments is completely different.
My first bouzouki was an Italian model made by Eko. Its neck warped in
about 5-6 years...right now I could not play it if you put a gun to my
head. The strings in the middle section of the neck are over a centimetre
away from the fret board!! I have since bought two Greek made bouzoukia
which are OK (60's) but still not first class. The most difficult thing
about the bouzouki is to keep its neck perfectly straight so that the action
can be lowered right down. The necks seem to be particularly susceptible
to the elements, like sunlight, or high humidity over a prolonged time.
My present bouzouki has low action (1-2 mm) which you need to play fast
pieces.
Another topic is 6-string (3 pair) versus 8-string (4 pair) bouzoukia. If
there are any 6-string players on the net, can you play Hiotis tunes without
having to run all over the place? I play 8-string bouzouki although I must
admit to being mesmerized by the D-minor (open) "chord" of the 6-string
instrument. It is not really a chord (D A D) but it is usually supplemented
by a guitar.
A few days ago, I bought a just released album where Thanasis Polykandriotis
plays Brahms!!! Yes, you heard correctly! The blend is absolutely amazing!
He is accompanied by the Failoni Orchestra of the Hungarian State Opera.
One can hear the classical influence on modern Greek music...since many of
our modern Greek composers have had classical training, one would expect
that the influence would be present. Hearing Brahms with a tasteful blend
of bouzouki is something you simply must experience. You would never believe
that the two could blend, until you listen to this.
Also, a question: does anyone know who made Thanasis Polykandriotis'
bouzouki, and also that of Yiannis Bithikotsis? Who are the current makers
in Greece and what are their price ranges? Here in Cyprus there are many
makers of variable quality. The professionals in Greece have had an
association with Varlas for a few years...but I hear he is very difficult
to deal with, and you need someone reputable to refer you to him in order
to get a first class instrument. I also heard of an Armenian maker in
Greece who makes excellent instruments...information anyone??
About baglama: which is better? The sgaftos variety (gourd is made from
a single piece of wood) or the stripes variety? The first variety seems
to produce a tinny sound, which some people prefer, it sounds more like
a percussion instrument than a string instrument.
What pickup do you recommend? I still have an Ideal magnet on mine (I'm
turning red as I write this). I know that the standard changed for a few
years to Savvas, and now professionals are using EBM (or something similar)
Comments on pickups for bouzouki??
Here's to Greek music
Photos.
--
__Vasilios_L._Pilarinos_______________________http://www.ml.org/~vpilarin__
"Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master."-Demosthenes
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Mario Ioannidis ]
[ Posted on Sat, 11 May 1996 23:42:46 GMT ]
--------------Preamble: Eat your heart out Borka !-------------------------
Photos Hajigeorgiou wrote:
> Calling all bouzouki players, or admirers of the instrument. Let's try
> to get a discussion going on the instrument, its history, sound, players,
> challenging instrumentals, etc.
I second the motion. Perhaps we should expand this discussion to include other
instruments used in popular Greek music, like clarinet (or "klarinou"), violin etc.
How many people know that piano was a "standard" instrument for many of the
old rembetiko ensembles ? Rumor has it that Tsitsanis was a pianist by training !
> I have read in a music catalogue that the saz (sazi) is the grandfather
> of the Greek bouzouki. Comments?
If this is true, one would expect the saz to be a 6-string instrument. Is
this the case ?
> My first bouzouki was an Italian model made by Eko. Its neck warped in
> about 5-6 years...right now I could not play it if you put a gun to my
> head.
No kiddin' ! Those "Eko" bouzouki-look-alikes are actually made of plastic !
> The strings in the middle section of the neck are over a centimetre
> away from the fret board!! I have since bought two Greek made bouzoukia
> which are OK (60's) but still not first class. The most difficult thing
> about the bouzouki is to keep its neck perfectly straight so that the action
> can be lowered right down. The necks seem to be particularly susceptible
> to the elements, like sunlight, or high humidity over a prolonged time.
> My present bouzouki has low action (1-2 mm) which you need to play fast
> pieces.
Hmmm...the problem of "high-action" is something that is encountered with many
instruments, not only of the "string" family.
> Another topic is 6-string (3 pair) versus 8-string (4 pair) bouzoukia. If
> there are any 6-string players on the net, can you play Hiotis tunes without
> having to run all over the place?
Well..That would depend on the skill and dexterity of the player. I have seen
6-string bouzouki players do a lot of Hiotis tunes without problem. However,
there must be a reason the 8-string bouzouki was invented. I am not a bouzouki
player, but I suspect that the added strings could serve to shorten "runs" on
the same string. Button vs. piano accordions is a case in point. Piano accordions
work on a "sequential" arrangement of keys, whereas button accordions use
a "staggered" arrangement that allows a closer packing of keys (viz. faster access).
Trivia 1: Name the musician who first used a 10-string bouzouki in Greece ?
> What pickup do you recommend?
NONE ! Let's face it Photi, mics may be a pain in the butt to use, but pickups
do change the sound significantly. Is it not true that pickups are avoided
in most studio recordings of bouzouki ?
> I still have an Ideal magnet on mine (I'm turning red as I write this). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ha ha ! Don't be. Ideal maybe outdated but it's a decent magnet.
> I know that the standard changed for a few years to Savvas, and now
> professionals are using EBM (or something similar)
I'm not surprised. There is a lot of research related to the development of
specialized electronics for bouzouki. I know that there exist amplifiers specifically
designed for bouzouki (though tube amps for guitar have served well so far).
Here is Trivia 2: Second voice to bouzouki is, most often, played by another bouzouki.
Who was the first to use guitar in place of second bouzouki ?
Mario
--
| vasilios pilarinos | "i like it here in new york. i like the
|jackson heights, queens, nyc | idea of having to keep eyes in the back
`-----------------------------------------) of your head." -- john cale
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Hueseyin Kemal Cakmak ]
[ Posted on Sun, 12 May 1996 08:21:08 +0200 ]
Mario Ioannidis wrote:
...
>
> > I have read in a music catalogue that the saz (sazi) is the grandfather
> > of the Greek bouzouki. Comments?
>
> If this is true, one would expect the saz to be a 6-string instrument. Is
> this the case ?
>
Yes, SAZ has 3pairs, 6 strings and is the grandfather of bouzouki.
KEMAL
--
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"War is an evil thing; but to submit to the dictation of other states is
worse. To you who call yourself men of peace, I say: You are not save
unless you have men of action on your side." Thucydides (c. 460-400 BCE)
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Demetrios Kalaitzidis ]
[ Posted on 12 May 1996 09:12:30 GMT ]
hey bouzoukomanis, what s up? I love this discussion. I just came back from a
gig. Here a re my thoughts. I sue a savvas magniti, and so far it is the best
i have ever used. ideal is outdated and sucks! The derivative of the bouzouki
is not know n for sure. Many say it is from sazi, but other s say it is from a
byzantine insturment callled the tamboura or pandoura. I use the Second
Solitaire made and by far it is incredible for a n amplifier. the thired quite
frankly sucks, but solitaire is the amp to go for , NO More fender! As for the
10 string bouzouki i feel that it is pushing it. you are either a guitar
player or a bouzouki player, please decide. the ten string is quite frankly
shity with a real shity sound. As for sound the three string is definetley the
best, but on four strin you can do so much more! Vasili Tsitsani did start out
as a pianist, and after hioti exist s Yannis Paleologou . if you have not
heard him you are not a bouzouki player he is incredible. Its sort of late
here so i need some sleep for tomorrow,
Ya se ola ta harmania,
O Mitsos
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Photos Hajigeorgiou ]
[ Posted on 12 May 1996 12:17:51 GMT ]
Mario Ioannidis wrote:
>--------------Preamble: Eat your heart out Borka !-------------------------
He doesn't have one...
>Photos Hajigeorgiou wrote:
>> Calling all bouzouki players, or admirers of the instrument. Let's try
>> to get a discussion going on the instrument, its history, sound, players,
>> challenging instrumentals, etc.
>I second the motion. Perhaps we should expand this discussion to include other
>instruments used in popular Greek music, like clarinet (or "klarinou"), violin etc.
>How many people know that piano was a "standard" instrument for many of the
>old rembetiko ensembles ? Rumor has it that Tsitsanis was a pianist by training !
Indeed he was! The piano is still used in some rembetiko ensembles but its
primary function is to "soften" the music, to give it a more European flavour.
Tsitsanis used piano is some of his orchestrations.
Something to think about: The advent of synthesizers in modern folk (laiki)
music. When they were first used in the '70's (no flames please, I'm not
100% on this) I rebelled, refusing to listen to any of it. But I have since
kept an open mind about it and find that it can be used rather tastefully if
used in moderation.
>> I have read in a music catalogue that the saz (sazi) is the grandfather
>> of the Greek bouzouki. Comments?
>If this is true, one would expect the saz to be a 6-string instrument. Is
>this the case ?
Yes it is. I am posting an article on the history of Middle Eastern lutes
which gives some interesting information on the saz and the bouzouki, among
other instruments.
>> My first bouzouki was an Italian model made by Eko. Its neck warped in
>> about 5-6 years...right now I could not play it if you put a gun to my
>> head.
>No kiddin' ! Those "Eko" bouzouki-look-alikes are actually made of plastic !
Yes, and I heard that they sound better if you stuff the gourd with socks!!
>> The most difficult thing about the bouzouki is to keep its neck perfectly
>> straight so that the action can be lowered right down. The necks seem to
>> be particularly susceptible to the elements, like sunlight, or high humidity
>> over a prolonged time. My present bouzouki has low action (1-2 mm) which
>> you need to play fast pieces.
>Hmmm...the problem of "high-action" is something that is encountered with many
>instruments, not only of the "string" family.
Although some guitarists prefer slightly higher action...cannot understand why.
A slightly higher action does give a louder sound in my experience.
>> Another topic is 6-string (3 pair) versus 8-string (4 pair) bouzoukia. If
>> there are any 6-string players on the net, can you play Hiotis tunes without
>> having to run all over the place?
>Well..That would depend on the skill and dexterity of the player. I have seen
>6-string bouzouki players do a lot of Hiotis tunes without problem. However,
>there must be a reason the 8-string bouzouki was invented. I am not a bouzouki
>player, but I suspect that the added strings could serve to shorten "runs" on
>the same string. Button vs. piano accordions is a case in point. Piano accordions
>work on a "sequential" arrangement of keys, whereas button accordions use
>a "staggered" arrangement that allows a closer packing of keys (viz. faster access).
Hiotis was a guitar player originally. When he took on the bouzouki he
quickly realized that a tuning similar to the guitar would speed him up a
lot...point proven by listening to his work. However, Costas Papadopoulos,
a sworn 6-stringed bouzouki player appears to have no problems playing anything
that comes his way. It would obviously be extremely difficult to play some
Zambetas tunes exactly with a 6-stringed bouzouki, as he used C and F drones
(open string notes).
>Trivia 1: Name the musician who first used a 10-string bouzouki in Greece ?
One of the adelfoi Katsampas??? I have also seen a guy called Triantafyllos
playing a 10-string bouzouki. What is the tuning? DAFCG?
>> What pickup do you recommend?
>NONE ! Let's face it Photi, mics may be a pain in the butt to use, but pickups
>do change the sound significantly. Is it not true that pickups are avoided
>in most studio recordings of bouzouki ?
Ah, yes! Mikes are 1000% better. They give a clean, acoustic sound that
is unparalleled. You may come close by using a contact pickup. The electric
sound given by the conventional pickups (Ideal, EBS, Savvas) is really a
skylladiko type of sound...reminds me of a videotaped rembetiko ensemble
concert I saw: at the beginning of the concert, the band leader who
played bouzouki made a statement apologizing for their decision to use
electric instruments instead of mikes, due to the high winds that night in
the open stadium they were playing at.
>> I still have an Ideal magnet on mine (I'm turning red as I write this). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Ha ha ! Don't be. Ideal maybe outdated but it's a decent magnet.
But it gives emphasis to certain acoustic ranges that make the instrument
sound "synthetic". BTW, my definition of a good bouzouki is one that does
not allow the experienced listener to discern when the player has switched
from the A strings to the D strings and vice versa. The timbre of the two
string pairs can only be the same or close when the wood-work is of really
exceptional quality.
>Here is Trivia 2: Second voice to bouzouki is, most often, played by another bouzouki.
> Who was the first to use guitar in place of second bouzouki ?
Not the Great Dalaras by any chance??
>Mario
Photos.
--
__
Vasilios L. Pilarinos | "O peri toys an0rwpoys erws ton 0eon ekenwsen"
-http://www.ml.org/~vpilarin + Vote 4 Dole '96! + vqp...@is4.nyu.edu-
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Mario Ioannidis ]
[ Posted on Mon, 13 May 1996 14:02:39 GMT ]
Photos Hajigeorgiou wrote:
> Something to think about: The advent of synthesizers in modern folk (laiki)
> music. When they were first used in the '70's (no flames please, I'm not
> 100% on this) I rebelled, refusing to listen to any of it. But I have since
> kept an open mind about it and find that it can be used rather tastefully if
> used in moderation.
Well...the increased use of synthesizers must have followed the general "electrification"
of the sound (read: "Big is Beautiful"). Synthesizers can be very "emotionless" if used
excessively. Personally,
I use them for two reasons: The first reason is convenience. Who can afford to haul
a piano here and there? And what do you do if a clarinetist or violinist is not available ?
Frankly, this reason is rather weak because one should first attempt to re-orchestrate
the music utilizing the "natural" instruments available before using a synth.
The second reason is artistic. Synthesizers produce certain unique sounds that can be
artfully implemented in popular songs. These can be lead organ variations (especially
from analogue synths, like the Moog or the Arps Odussey) or a variety of rather interesting
sounds/effects from the more modern digital synths. I think it's easy to tell who's using a
synth for convenience (read emulation) and who's using it as a piece of the orchestration.
On a related note, the advent of synthesizers has led to overproduction of recorded music
and has, IMHO, contributed to the development of the "skyladiko" genre.
> Hiotis was a guitar player originally. When he took on the bouzouki he
> quickly realized that a tuning similar to the guitar would speed him up a
> lot...point proven by listening to his work. However, Costas Papadopoulos,
> a sworn 6-stringed bouzouki player appears to have no problems playing anything
> that comes his way.
Let's not forget K. Liolios, who has been playing bouzouki for Nikos Papazoglou !
> Ah, yes! Mikes are 1000% better. They give a clean, acoustic sound that
> is unparalleled. You may come close by using a contact pickup. The electric
> sound given by the conventional pickups (Ideal, EBS, Savvas) is really a
> skylladiko type of sound...
Again, the same arguments would apply. Convenience: it's definitely easier to use
magnets than to mic a bouzouki. As for artistic expression, I think magnets reduce
the depth of the sound and I can't see much artistic value in their use.
> >Here is Trivia 2: Second voice to bouzouki is, most often, played by another bouzouki.
> > Who was the first to use guitar in place of second bouzouki ?
>
> Not the Great Dalaras by any chance??
No way Jose. It was Manos Hadjidakis ...
Mario
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Tom Christy ]
[ Posted on 14 May 1996 02:27:27 GMT ]
Photos Hajigeorgiou (ha...@cemaid.chem.ubc.ca) wrote:
: Something to think about: The advent of synthesizers in modern folk (laiki)
: music. When they were first used in the '70's (no flames please, I'm not
: 100% on this) I rebelled, refusing to listen to any of it. But I have since
: kept an open mind about it and find that it can be used rather tastefully if
: used in moderation.
If you synthesizer is annoying in Laika, how about in Dimotika? Ugh!!!!!
People use it here in the states, of course, because there's a lack of
good clarino players, at least here in the midwest. Almost as bad as
keyboards in Dimotika is hearing someone who learned the clarinet in
school "classical style" (ie, learned to play Mozart) who tries to play
Greek music...it just doesn't sound right.
On the subject of pickups and bouzouki, here's another vote to hear the
bouzouki played "clean." When you hear a bouzouki not only through
pickups but with chorus, delay, reverb, etc. plastered on it, it really
doesn't sound any different than an electric guitar. I want to hear the
bouzouki for its own sound.
And on the subject of electric guitar, I play it...how hard is it to
switch to bouzouki? I've played around with one once or twice (8 string,
of course) and the action seemed a fair bit different. I'm self taught on
the guitar, my technique is awful, and I have a really tough time doing
fast plucking, ie, two notes in rapid succession on the same string, one
on the upstroke and one on the down...is that easier to do on the
bouzouki?
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was George Chrysafis ]
[ Posted on Wed, 15 May 1996 10:01:05 -0700 ]
Tom Christy wrote:
> On the subject of pickups and bouzouki, here's another vote to hear the
> bouzouki played "clean." When you hear a bouzouki not only through
> pickups but with chorus, delay, reverb, etc. plastered on it, it really
> doesn't sound any different than an electric guitar.
To me it's a lot worse than an electric quitar! It sounds hollow, tinny (sic?). I always thought
it was due to the players setting treble,reverb and volume too high...
> And on the subject of electric guitar, I play it...how hard is it to
> switch to bouzouki? I've played around with one once or twice (8 string,
> of course) and the action seemed a fair bit different. I'm self taught on
> the guitar, my technique is awful, and I have a really tough time doing
> fast plucking, ie, two notes in rapid succession on the same string, one
> on the upstroke and one on the down...is that easier to do on the
> bouzouki?
I'm also self-taught on the quitar and bouzouki. I play exclusively bouzouki now (buy a record,
learn the songs...). It takes a little while to get used to and when you do it's a little
disconcerting to switch between the two. The bass strings on the guitar throw me.
I think fast picking is easier on the bouzouki. (Haven't thought of it but,) maybe because the
two strings provide more of a surface for the pick (huh?).
G. Chrysafis
Vasilios L. Pilarinos
[ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
[ Author was Photos Hajigeorgiou ]
[ Posted on 15 May 1996 18:26:40 GMT ]
Tom Christy wrote:
>Photos Hajigeorgiou (ha...@cemaid.chem.ubc.ca) wrote:
>: Something to think about: The advent of synthesizers in modern folk (laiki)
>: music. When they were first used in the '70's (no flames please, I'm not
>: 100% on this) I rebelled, refusing to listen to any of it. But I have since
>: kept an open mind about it and find that it can be used rather tastefully if
>: used in moderation.
>If you synthesizer is annoying in Laika, how about in Dimotika? Ugh!!!!!
>People use it here in the states, of course, because there's a lack of
>good clarino players, at least here in the midwest. Almost as bad as
>keyboards in Dimotika is hearing someone who learned the clarinet in
>school "classical style" (ie, learned to play Mozart) who tries to play
>Greek music...it just doesn't sound right.
This is quite often done out of necessity. It is harder to find a good
clarinet player than a good bouzouki player. Very few synthesizers can
give a decent clarinet sound to begin with...then we get onto the player.
It is quite the task to learn the common passages/runs player in traditional
dimotika. That is, every instrument has its own personal way of playing, as
for example the oud, where note/semitone trills with a feathery pick are
common. I would give my firstborn to the synthesizer player who can
emulate Vassili Salea to an indistiguishable extent. The only way this
could be done is through the help of the programming features of the
synthesizer and perhaps even through the help of other software.
I sleep soundly in the fact that NO synthesizer will ever be able to give us
a proper believable bouzouki sound.
>On the subject of pickups and bouzouki, here's another vote to hear the
>bouzouki played "clean." When you hear a bouzouki not only through
>pickups but with chorus, delay, reverb, etc. plastered on it, it really
>doesn't sound any different than an electric guitar. I want to hear the
>bouzouki for its own sound.
Hear, hear! I had a sound technician once tell me that the bouzouki is one
of the most difficult instruments to mike. But, let me tell you, when you
get it right, it's worth every minute you spent at it. To get that deep,
metallic sound...aphasia dike mou.
>And on the subject of electric guitar, I play it...how hard is it to
>switch to bouzouki? I've played around with one once or twice (8 string,
>of course) and the action seemed a fair bit different. I'm self taught on
>the guitar, my technique is awful, and I have a really tough time doing
>fast plucking, ie, two notes in rapid succession on the same string, one
>on the upstroke and one on the down...is that easier to do on the
>bouzouki?
Picking on the guitar is a whole different ball game. Trying to pick on
a 6-string guitar is very awkward when you are used to double strings. This
is why I bought a 12-string guitar, which gives a fuller guitar sound anyway
while allowing you better control with picking. It seems particularly
difficult to tremolo on the 6-string guitar. This must have to do with the
physics of paired strings versus single strings...it is no accident that
tremolos are traditionally associated with double-stringed instruments, like
the mandolin/bouzouki/balalaika. If you have ever had one string of the
pair break on you while you are playing, then you have experienced what is
known as bouzouki player's hell.
When you think about it, the tremolo, or downstroke/upstroke way of playing,
works like this: you downstrike the top string, it starts to vibrate, then
you upstroke the bottom string...during this time the top string's vibration
has damped itself a little so that when you hit it again it is easier to get
the control you need...and so on and so forth. You cannot do this with a
single string.
Trivia Question: What was the first song Christos Nikolopoulos recorded?
Photos.
From unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc,bofh.dot!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!tau.uac.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!bofh.dot!insync!news.io.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.ACO.net!zeus.cc.ucy.ac.cy!turing.cs.ucy.ac.cy!george Wed May 15 01:17:16 1996
Article: 83880 of soc.culture.greek
Path: unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc,bofh.dot!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!tau.uac.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!bofh.dot!insync!news.io.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.ACO.net!zeus.cc.ucy.ac.cy!turing.cs.ucy.ac.cy!george
From: George Angelos Papadopoulos <geo...@turing.cs.ucy.ac.cy>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Greetings from Cyprus (directly!) :-))
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:27:43 +0300
Organization: University of Cyprus
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.960514...@turing.cs.ucy.ac.cy>
NNTP-Posting-Host: turing.cs.ucy.ac.cy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Organiz: Department of Computer Science - University of Cyprus
Now, I may be wrong, but this should be the first
proper (i.e. not by using a foreign account or scg
as a mailing list) posting to soc.culture.greek
from Cyprus.
Regards
George
---
Department of Computer Science Tel: +357-2-338704 (05/06)
University of Cyprus Fax: +357-2-339062
75 Kallipoleos Str. Email: geo...@turing.cs.ucy.ac.cy
P.O. Box 537, CY-1678 WWW: http://www.ucy.ac.cy/ucy/cs/papadopo.html
Nicosia, CYPRUS
--
__Vasilios_L._Pilarinos______________________http://www.ml.org/~vpilarin___
Language is the armory of the human mind, and at once contains the trophies
of its past and the weapons of its future conquests. -- Samuel Coleridge
Boris Docevski
In article <4nhtru$t...@news.nyu.edu>, vqp...@is4.nyu.edu (Vasilios L.
Pilarinos) wrote:
> [ Article reposted from soc.culture.greek ]
Pilarinos, for the last time, stop spamming!
Boris Docevski (bd...@cornell.edu)
http://www.isc.rit.edu/~bvs4997/Macedonia
http://www.erc.msstate.edu/~vkire/faq
http://www.worldmusic.com/lebisol
http://www.itl.swcp.com/itl