The TRUTH Emerges: You Lost!
Aryan 666
St. Clement Orthodox Church is a parish of the Bulgarian Eastern
Orthodox Diocese of the U.S.A., Canada and Australia, with its
headquarters in New York City.
The Diocese includes 25 parishes and two monasteries. The parishes are
diverse in background; some are comprised mostly of recent immigrants
from Bulgaria,
others mainly of second- and third-generation Americans of Macedonian
heritage
and others of American converts to Orthodox Christianity. In each
parish, the language of worship reflects the background of the majority
of parishioners.
The first parish was formed in 1907 in Madison, Illinois.The Diocese
was organized by the Holy Synod of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in
1938.
Macedon
When Macedonian immigrants to the new world countried tried to build
churches before the Macedonian Orthodox Church was re-formed, they
invited the "friendly" Orthodox nations to send priests. As an example
in Newcastle, Australia Macedonians in the 1950s invited Serbian
representatives, which later took over the Church. Decade later
Macedonians in Newcastle had to build new church. Same happened in USA
with the Bulgarian church. The lesson was learned the hard way.
I am surprised with the number of Bulgarian churches in USA, Canada and
Australia. Your representatives are not taking good care of your
people. Scroll down the following page to visit the number of
Macedonian churches in Australia alone
http://www.macedonianemb.org.au/index_MKinAUS.html. One wanders what is
the reason Bulgarian church is so passive abroad.
Istor the Macedonian
Macedonians are proud to say Thessaloniki !!
:)
Aryan 666
In the early years of the 20th century, immigrants from Macedonia and
Bulgaria began coming to the United States and Canada in large numbers,
looking for economic opportunity and safety from the continuing
political unrest in their homeland. Most were drawn to the booming
factory towns in the Midwest, and after about 1910, a large number were
attracted to the Detroit area by the jobs available in the rapidly
growing automobile industry. The first immigrants to the area
worshipped at Russian or Greek Orthodox churches.
In 1927, the Orthodox Mission of the Holy Synod of Bulgaria sent
Protoprezviter Dr. Krustyu Tsenoff as a missionary to the growing
Macedonian and Bulgarian communities in the U.S. and Canada , to
organize parishes for the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. In 192 7 , he came
to the Detroit area.
The Macedonians feeling ethnically closer to the Bulgarians than to the
Russians or Greeks, accepted Fr. Tsenoff as their spiritual guide and
the Holy Synod of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church as their ecclesiastical
authority.
Our charter members, together with Fr. Tsenoff, founded the first
Detroit-based Macedonian-Bulgarian parish under the name Holy Trinity.
The first services were held at St. John Episcopal Church in Downtown
Detroit. Later, in 1929, the newly organized parish built its first
church, on 25th Street , near Michigan Avenue . The Divine Liturgy was
celebrated every Sunday and every Feast Day.
In 1930, the parish priest was Very Rev. Velik Karadjoff, who in 1932
organized the Ladies' Club. It appeared for a short time that the newly
founded Church community was thriving. But during the Great Depression
of the 1930s, the young church experienced great economic difficulties.
Most of the parishioners were unemployed, and the parish was unable to
meet the mortgage payment. The church was foreclosed upon and listed
for sale, and the parish was dissolved.
According to Michigan law, the church building now could be bought at a
much lower price than the original cost. At this time, the Macedonian
Political Organization (MPO) "Fatherland" purchased the church
properties. On February 17, 1935 the parish was reorganized under the
name St. Clement Ohridski Mecedono-Bulgarian Orthodox Church. Father
George Nicoloff arrived from Bulgaria to lead the newly organized
parish at the end of that year.
In 1938, the parish was once again threatened with bankruptcy and
foreclosure. This time, the parishioners rallied and pooled their
resources. They organized weekly vecherinkas (dances) and summer
picnics, and contributed quarters, fifty-cent pieces and dollars to
prevent foreclosure. They were successful. W h en prosperity came
during World War II, the mortgage was paid and the parishioners were
able to relax. In 1947, they built a hall next to the church. A plaque
of the list of contributors who helped pay for the hall hangs in the
hallway of our present Church.
By 1963, plans were being laid for the construction of a new church on
Ford Road in Dearborn , where the church now stands. However, an
unfortunate split in the parish led to the departure of Fr. Nicoloff
and a number of church members. Over the years, many people have worked
to heal the wounds caused by this split, and a great deal of progress
has been made , including cooperation on joint ly-sponsored dances and
other events.
The parishioners who remained with St. Clement built a large,
beautiful, three-domed cathedral-like church with Sunday School
classrooms and two halls. The ground breaking ceremonies took place on
July 12, 1964, and the cornerstone - laying ceremonies were performed
in June 1966 by Metropolitan Andrey, Bishop Parteney, a number of
visiting clergy and many faithful parishioners. This marked a new
beginning for St. Clement.
On S eptember 14, 1968 Very Reverend Panayot Pamukov became the Parish
Priest. H e led a long period of growth in membership and activity. He
currently holds the title Pastor Emeritus in our Church and is still
very active serving in most church services and activities.
The church building was consecrated on July 4, 1976, and the mortgage
was retired two years later. In 1978, our parish was honored to host
His Holiness Patricarch Maxim as he visited the parishes of our Diocese
in North America .
Our current parish priest, Fr. Michael Arbanas, arrived in November
1999. He has focused a great deal of attention on the Sunday School and
other programs that serve families with young children, and these
programs have shown a great deal of growth in the past five years.
In addition, our records show that since 1964 the following clergymen
have served St. Clement:
Bishop Parteney, 1964 and the first half of 1965
Rev. Christo B. Christoff of Akron , Ohio , second half of 1965
Rev. George Geroff, 1January 1, 1966 to September 1, 1968
Very Rev Panayot Pamukov, Pastor Emeritus, September 14, 1968 to
Present Time
Very Rev. Walter Diachenko served for many years as an assistant priest
Very Rev. Michael Arbanas, Parish Priest November 1, 1999 to Present
Time
Macedon
Perhaps you may inform Macedonians in Detroit that they have two local
Macedonian Orthodox Churches
1. Sveta Bogorodica
43123 Ryan Road
Sterling Heights, Mi. 48314
2. Sveti Gorgi Kratovski
29141 Twelve Mile Road
Farmington Hills, Mi. 48334
You can assure them that only Macedonians (not Bulgarians, Serbs or Greeks)
serve their community, but all are welcome to attend.
The rest of the Macedonian churches in USA & Canada are (total 29)
Sv.Sv. Petar i Pavle Crown Point, IN
Sv. Bogorodica Columbus, OH
Sv. Georgij Syracuse, NY
Sv. Naum Ohridski Hamilton, ON
Sv.Sv. Kiril i Metodij Cedar Grove, NJ
Sv. Dimitrij West Henrietta, NY
Sv.Sv. Kiril i Matodij Blasedell, NY
Sv. Bogorodica Detroit, MI
Sv. Nikola Totowa, NY
Sv. Dimitrij Markham, ON
Sv. Bogorodica Cambridge, ON
Sv. \orgi Kratovski Detroit, MI
Sv. Kliment Ohridski New York, NY
Sv. Naum Ohridski Philadelphia, PA
Sv. Ilija Toronto, ON
Sv.Sv. Kliment Ohridski Toronto, ON
Sv.Sv. Kiril i Metodij Hinsdale, IL
Sv. Nikola Windsor, ON
Sv. Kliment Ohridski Avon, OH
Sv. Nikola Massillon, Green City, OH
Sv. Bogorodica Witthier, CA
Sv. Ilija Cincinati, OH
Sv. Ilija Mississauga, ON
Sv. Paraskeva Chicago, IL
Sv. Nedela Ajax, ON
Sv. Dimitrij Miami, FL
Sv. Georgij (manastir) Randolph, NJ
Sv. Bogorodica Saint Luis
Sv. Nikola Unionwille, ON
"Aryan 666" <arya...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147469070.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Ilinden
Istor the Turk wrote:
> Istor
> Macedonians are proud to say Solun Ovcharani, Banitsa, Negochani, Negush, Rula, Breznitsa, !!
>
> :)
>
Aryan 666
P.S. The church listed in Columbus is misnamed. The real name of the
church is "Macedonian Orthodox Church of the Dormition of the Virgin
Mary" (Makedonska Pravoslavna Crkva Uspenie Na Presveta Bogorodica).
June R Harton
Bulgar, shall I post your admitted Bulgar heritage again?
from: Spirit of Truth
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
June R Harton
"Macedon" <macedon...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:GQ79g.2772$S7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Silly.
Folks, you only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority
are simply West Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:
"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."
And here:
Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......
http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html
Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).
And here:
For fair use only.
http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...
...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.
... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...
Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.
The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"
Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV
This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "
And here:
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm
http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm
And finally here
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm
http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid
from: Spirit
Macedon
(not ethnically closer, but religiously closer) built the church and gave to
the Bulgarians to serve. In Newcastle, Macedonians who belonged to the
Serbian Orthodox Church gave it to the Serbian religious workers for a
service. Macedonians who belonged to the Greek Orthodox Church built
churches and gave to the Greek religious officials to serve. My family
belonged to the latter. Most of the late built churches in Solun have my
grandfathers workmanship. The most important thing is that Macedonian
Orthodox Church now exists and Macedonians who originaly built churches for
foreign nations should come back to their herd. 100 years ago they didn't
have the choice. In the 21st century, Macedonians in USA, Canada and
Australia, have their choice.
June R Harton
Silly. Shea's writings don't at all match history. Look, Bulgar!
http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/diadochi_t11.html
from: Spirit of Truth
Istor the Macedonian
Istor
Macedonians are proud to say Thessaloniki
Aryan 666
They say they were Macedonian (i.e. distinct from Bulgarian) parishes
under the auspices of the Bulgarian church. Finally an admission of
the truth.
Again, this is from the St. Clements Macedono-Bulgarian web page.
This is very significant.
++
A Brief History of St. Clement Church
In the early years of the 20th century, immigrants from Macedonia and
Bulgaria began coming to the United States and Canada in large numbers,
looking for economic opportunity and safety from the continuing
political unrest in their homeland. Most were drawn to the booming
factory towns in the Midwest, and after about 1910, a large number were
attracted to the Detroit area by the jobs available in the rapidly
growing automobile industry. The first immigrants to the area worshipped
at Russian or Greek Orthodox churches.
In 1927, the Orthodox Mission of the Holy Synod of Bulgaria sent
Protoprezviter Dr. Krustyu Tsenoff as a missionary to the growing
Macedonian and Bulgarian communities in the U.S. and Canada , to
organize parishes for the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. In 192 7 , he came
to the Detroit area. The Macedonians feeling ethnically closer to the
Bulgarians than to the Russians or Greeks, accepted Fr. Tsenoff as their
spiritual guide and the Holy Synod of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church as
their ecclesiastical authority.
Our charter members, together with Fr. Tsenoff, founded the first
Detroit-based Macedonian-Bulgarian parish under the name Holy Trinity.
The first services were held at St. John Episcopal Church in Downtown
Detroit. Later, in 1929, the newly organized parish built its first
church, on 25th Street , near Michigan Avenue . The Divine Liturgy was
celebrated every Sunday and every Feast Day.
In 1930, the parish priest was Very Rev. Velik Karadjoff, who in 1932
organized the Ladies' Club. It appeared for a short time that the newly
founded Church community was thriving. But during the Great Depression
of the 1930s, the young church experienced great economic difficulties.
Most of the parishioners were unemployed, and the parish was unable to
meet the mortgage payment. The church was foreclosed upon and listed for
sale, and the parish was dissolved.
According to Michigan law, the church building now could be bought at a
much lower price than the original cost. At this time, the Macedonian
Political Organization (MPO) "Fatherland" purchased the church
properties. On February 17, 1935 the parish was reorganized under the
name St. Clement Ohridski Mecedono-Bulgarian Orthodox Church. Father
George Nicoloff arrived from Bulgaria to lead the newly organized parish
at the end of that year.
In 1938, the parish was once again threatened with bankruptcy and
foreclosure. This time, the parishioners rallied and pooled their
resources. They organized weekly /vecherinkas /(dances) and summer
Aryan 666
there are THREE types of parishes under the auspicies of the Bulgarian
Orthodox Church:
1. Parishes comprised of Bulgarian Immigrants ("some are comprised
mostly of recent immigrants
from Bulgaria"). Recent parishes.
2. Parishes comprised of people of Macedonian Heritage ("mainly of
second- and third-generation Americans of Macedonian
heritage"). The older parishes
3. Parishes comprised of American converts
4. The first parish was formed in 1907 in Madison, Illinois. This was
a Macedonian parish.
THEY LOST.
++
Their present priest is from Plovdiv. He seems nice. Nice parish.
Around here, there are three-four Bulgarian Orthodox groups:
1. One started a church in a community center about 25 years ago. Went
through seven priests who were paid starvation wages. In the parish
were all of the groups you mentioned. OCA Problems mostly with firing
priests, other preist problems, lack of permanent home. Bought land.
Has some money
2. Patriarchal parish - got dissolved over problems with meeting in a
house that was kind of valuable. Priest was nice but overworked between
not really getting paid for his job. He got free housing ony (and had
to pay utilities on the church and the house both from outside work)
Under the Patriarch of Bulgaria Problem - church is sold with some of
the profits going to embassy someho and rest going to church. Seems
none went back to buying a
3. Offshoot of #1 under a priest that was reinstated since he had been
unjustly fired. Problem- no permanent location. OCA
4. Kind of an ad hoc group - let's call them the students. Would
occasionally hire a priest to give a service.Some of these were somewhat
shady. There was the one who had gotten thrown out of Rila with his
boyfriend, for example. Sweet. Sang a beuatiful service. But...
All of these have Macedonians. So do a couple of the rival Serb
churches. But they also have Bugarian Bulgarians. Like your church above.
Who cares what nationality? If there are enough Macedonians, there are
Macedonian churches. Otherwise, they go to numerous different Orthodox
churches. It only matters if you get some person who feels compelled to
discuss political garbage instead of Orthodoxy. I went to one sermon of
Bishop Kyril of Pittsburg once where he felt compleed to assert that
Macedonians were Bulgarians. Difficulty was, there were Macedonians in
that parish who got irritated over the political garbage.
Macedon
> Galina it is worth noting from my original post (copied below) that
> there are THREE types of parishes under the auspicies of the Bulgarian
> Orthodox Church:
>
> 1. Parishes comprised of Bulgarian Immigrants ("some are comprised
> mostly of recent immigrants
> from Bulgaria"). Recent parishes.
>
> 2. Parishes comprised of people of Macedonian Heritage ("mainly of
> second- and third-generation Americans of Macedonian
> heritage"). The older parishes
>
Would these people be more interested in having priests of Macedonian
background? Any chance for these people to push the change? Do they need
this change?
Aryan 666
> background? Any chance for these people to push the change? Do they need
> this change?
I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth. These church groups and
organizations become very protective of their own turf, not unlike
people who protect their fiefdoms in an office environment.
The point is still that from a historical perspective you are hearing
from people within the MPO orbit that they are Macedonians, not
Bulgarians. This from members of parishes started in the early 1900's
who considered themselves Macedonians. This also from members of a
Bulgarian church that served as a cathedral.
This is very significant from a historical persepective because of
where these words are coming from. Macedonians, under the Bulgarian
Orthodox church saying they are not Bulgarians! Of course, this only
confirms what Eugene Borza said about the Macedonians of
Steelton/Harrisburg, PA.
Of course, we always knew this was true but the message seemed to be
lost in the disinformation.
That's why they lost!
June R Harton
Very silly, Bulgar.
You are a self-exposed Bulgar!
Real Macedonians were and are Greek, always have been.
As far as *your* roots it is clear you are a Bulgar.
"----- Original Message -----
From: "Dirty Harry" <dirtyharr...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.news.macedonia
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: PIRGOI YOUR DAUGHTER IS ONE SICK PERSON
"Pirgoi" <pir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021128233217...@mb-fd.aol.com...
> YOU MEAN BULGARIAN CHURCHES!
Nope. I was baptised at a church in Lorain. My baptismal certificate
says I was baptised under the auspicies of the Bulgarian Exarchate
at the THE ST. CYRIL AND METHODIUS BULGARO-MACEDONIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH (thats
right Bulgaro-Macedonian and not the
other way around) in Lorain!
Have a nice day."
............................................................................
What a simple minded "lawyer" this dirty one turns out to be.
:)
The following data clinches the fact that he and ALL the fyromian
slavophones are simply Bulgars:
For fair use only:
http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm
"The Bulgarian Exarchate was established on 28 February 1870 with a Firman
from the sultan as a result of the long struggle of the Bulgarian people for
church independence from the Greek Patriarchate. This struggle began in 1824
in the towns of Vratsa, Skopje and Samokov, but most active in it was the
Bulgarian community in Constantinople, a great part of which were Macedonian
Bulgarians.
The Firman granted the Exarchate the following eparchies: Ruschuk, Silistra,
Tirnovo, Lovech, Vratsa, Vidin, Sofia, Samokov, Kjustendil, Nish, Pirot and
Veles. It also decided that other eparchies could acknowledge the Exarchate
if 2/3 of their Christian inhabitants demanded this. A plebiscite was
conducted in Ohrid, Bitola and Skopje eparchies where the overwhelming
majority of the population chose to join the Exarchate. There was also a
demand for a plebiscite from the Salonica Bulgarians but it was not carried
out. The Exarchate was pressing for a plebiscite in the Debar, Strumitsa and
Kukush (Poljanino) eparchies when the Bulgarian insurections of 1875 and
1876 broke out. They and the Russo - Turkish war of 1877-78 exposed the
Bulgarians in the eyes of the Turks. Therefore the vote could not be
completed in Southern Macedonia and, where it had been completed, bishops
were not appointed to all of those eparchies (only Skopje and Ohrid). In the
course of the war the Bulgarian Exarch Antim I was exiled in Asia Minor and
replaced with Josif (1877). The bishops of the eparchies that remained in
Turkish hands after the war (Skopje, Veles, Ohrid) were driven away by the
authorities.
The attemp to restore them in 1884-85 failed on account of the resistance of
the Patriarchate, of Greece and of Serbia. Only in 1890 bishops could be
appointed in Skopje and Ohrid. Then followed Veles and Nevrokop (1894) and
Bitola, Debar and Strumitsa (1897). The other nine Bulgarian eparchies in
the Ottoman empire (Adrianople, Salonica, Drama, Serres, Melnik, Kukush,
Vodena, Maglen and Kostur) never saw Bulgarian bishops but only Exarchate
deputies who looked after the schools and represented the Bulgarian
population of the region before the authorities.
More prominent Bulgarian bishops who came from Macedonia were Partenij
Zografski of Poljanino (born in Galichnik near Debar), Panaret of Plovdiv
(born in the village of Patele near Lerin), Natanail of Ohrid and Plovdiv
(born in Kuchevishta, Skopje), Meletij of Sofia (born in Strumitsa) and
Metodij of Stara Zagora (born in Prilep).
We have not discussed the struggles of the Bulgarians in Macedonia against
the Greek clergy here, but the fact that they equally participated in them
together with the Moesians and the Thracians and that they willingly joined
the Exarchate testifies to their national self-identification."
June R Harton
Stop being silly, Bulgar.