Goce Delcev: "Whoever wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
Vasil II Makedonski
wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
good Macedonian"
Goce Delcev
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
June R Harton
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/single_image/0,5716,4461+asmbly_id,00.html
Map from "Report of the International Commission To Inquire
into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars" 1914.
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
.......The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
George S. Tsapanos
>"Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
>wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
>Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
>good Macedonian"
>
>Goce Delcev>
That maybe was Goce, We say that Makedonia was and is Hellenic.
Questions?
Regards to all ..................L.
"Vlachs, The Autochthonous
Of the Hellenic Peninsula".
Tasho Alusheff
towards Bulgaria, Greece or Serbia ...
From: lyn...@aol.com (George S. Tsapanos)
makedon wrote:
>"Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
>wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
>Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
>good Macedonian"
>
>Goce Delcev>
That maybe was Goce, We say that Makedonia was and is Hellenic.
Questions?
***********************************************
George,
Thats what is said NOW...but tell me, what was the policy and attitude
toward this exact same issue before 1989?..Huh bre?...tell me that,
wouldja?...:)
zdravo, Bratchko...
Tase
"So pushka na raka i Makedonia na sertse!"
Pozdrav do site Makedonski
ot Tasho Alusheff,
Macedonian forever, greek NEVER!
Ilya Talev
Vasil II Makedonski wrote:
> "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> good Macedonian"
Right! And Macedonia should be only for the
Macedonians - Greeks, Bulgarians, Vlahs,
Albanians, Serbs and Turks. This is
exactly what Goce Delchev & Co were
saying.
IT
George S. Tsapanos
>That maybe was Goce, We say that Makedonia was and is Hellenic.
>Questions?
>***********************************************
>George,
> Thats what is said NOW...but tell me, what was the policy and attitude
>toward this exact same issue before 1989?..Huh bre?...tell me that,
>wouldja?...:)
>zdravo, Bratchko...
>Tase>
The policy was, that we were waiting to go back in Monastiri and Megarovo and
get our houses back.
John Alep
language and civilization as Macedonians always were doing.
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
John Alep
Macedonians were always Greek !!!
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
Tasho Alusheff
or Serbia can be considered a good Bulg
From: "John Alep" ale...@vip.gr
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:15:51 +0200
Who told you that ??
Macedonians were always Greek !!!
John Alep
Greek Occupied Macedonia
*************************************
No, Ivan, the question is: who told YOU, this crap that YOU spout? I wouldn't
take any tips at the track from whomever it was.
Tasho
Lerinsko, Makedonia
Tasho Alusheff
>>Good Macedonian is which has Greek >name, language, ways and spreads >Greek
>language and civilization as Macedonians >always were doing.
> John Alep
>Greek Occupied Macedonia
********************************************
Keep telling yourself that, Pal. Keep repeating it over and over again to
yourself and soon, you'll believe it.
Tasho Lerinsko
Vchoska
>> wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
>> Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
>> good Macedonian"
******Goce meant exactly what he said, and he meant Skav Macedonians, not GREEK
ones. He spoke in Slav Macedonian, not Greek or Serbian. Talk about
straining.............
***____________________________________________________________________
June R Harton
> yourself and soon, you'll believe it.
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/single_image/0,5716,4461+asmbly_id,00.html
June R Harton
> From: "John Alep" ale...@vip.gr
> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:15:51 +0200
> Who told you that ??
> Macedonians were always Greek !!!
> John Alep
> Greek Occupied Macedonia
> Tasho > Lerinsko, Makedonia
> "So pushka na raka i Makedonia na sertse!"
> Pozdrav do site Makedonski
> ot Tasho Alusheff,
> Macedonian forever, greek NEVER!
1912
Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> good Macedonian"
>
> Goce Delcev
That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates that
there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
--
E = MB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Macedonians/Bulgarians =
Language, Culture, History, Race)
June R Harton
"1912" <unitemacedoni...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:95tkao$5a5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <95r7mi$2bv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> > wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> > Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> > good Macedonian"
> > Goce Delcev
> That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
> The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
> there did not exist a Macedonian ethnicity in his time.
For once you are completely correct! But you failed to add.....only 'a
geographical Macedonia' used also as a scam.
The Fyromians lost ANY and ALL rights to geographic Macedonia
anything when they tried (and BTW, are darn well still trying!!!!!)
to steal Greek heritage and history!
FYROM is Macedonia nothing!
FYROM is not the area of the ancient Macedonians:
Here, folks, is the truth they don't want you to know.
The real Macedonia:
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa3.jpg
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/mapSeq_Map01.html
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/single_image/0,5716,4461+asmbly_id
,00.html
And to the north of Macedonia, the ancient Fyromland area:
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa4.jpg
And Fyrom area in the recent past:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/historical/Balkan_boundari
es_1914.jpg
Bulgaria after the Conference of Constantinople 1876-1877 (124K)
Map from "Report of the International Commission To Inquire
into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars" 1914.
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
.......The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
from: Spirit of Truth
John Alep
Macedonians were always Greek !!
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
John Alep
You were born knowing everything !!
As about me, Alexander the Great told me that I am Macedonian !!
Do you love name "Ivan" ?? Alexander no !!
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
Voyager
http://www.hri.org/docs/macque/
http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/PageData/list_of_inscriptions.htm
http://www.ancientgreece.com/
http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/06/en/politics/top/top000.html
http://www.macedonia.com/greek/
http://cal044202.student.utwente.nl/~marsares/history/index.html
MACEDONIA MEANS GREECE
Well again !!!!!!!!!!!
I think I have to make a history lesson which is part of
every good ELEMENTARY school around the world !!!!!
When we are talking about Macedonians we are talking
about Greek people and the history of them starts the 6th
again the 6th century BEFORE Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Macedonians were Dorians as the Spartans were.
Macedon it's a Greek name and it means tall-man.
They were speaking Greek, having Greek education Greek
religion, Greek costumes, Greek names, and they were the
part of the Greeks who achieve to unified all the Greeks together.
Also a lot's of the greatest minds of the antiquity expect the
political and military leaders were Macedonians.like the
Aristotel and many-many others.
Alexander and Aristotel were THE Greeks as All the Macedonians
of course. If you want more just read the Aristotel.
At the Byzantine times the greatest and longest dynasty of
emperors were the Macedonian dynasty, they also were Greeks
them language was the Greek etc.
The people you call "Macedonians" are SLAVS and the Slavs
came to the Balkan's region at the 7th century AFTER Christ !!!!
Some of the emperors of the Macedonian dynasty defend the
the Greek empire of the middle ages (Byzantine) in many wars
against the Slavs who were trying to invade into it.
Now we learn that Slavs can't be Macedonians for all these reasons
above.
One more time in summary.
1) Macedonians history starts at the 6th century BEFORE Christ.
2) So called Macedonians(Slavs)history starts at 7th century
AFTER Christ. 1100 years of distance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3) Macedonians language was always the GREEK !!!!!!!!!!!!!
4) So called Macedonians language is Slavonic very similar to
Bulgarian language.
Now about the latest history.
The Republic of Macedonia was a Tito's creation and it had to
do with his plans to come down to the Aegean sea.
Tito name this part of the formal Yugoslavia as Macedonia after
the second world war for this reason.
The name of this country before that was Bardarska Banovina.
Of course Titto change everything since then and he started teaching
the kids of this country that they come from Alexander the Great
and they are the great Macedonians for the reason above.
After the fall of the communism in Europe the Americans having
many interests and plants for the region pushed things for the
independence of all the formal Yugoslavia federal countries.
They used Macedonia as a tool to blackmail Greece and to
achieve to push Greece to give them the things they wanted
the way they wanted.
Like the issue of the new NATO military bases in Greece the
oils of the Aegean sea, and of course the silence and cooperation
of Greece during the Bosnian and Kosovo wars, which was the
major targets of the USA in it's effort to put it's foots into the Balkans.
There was even CIA agents around this area those years who trying
to find very poor people and they offered them 10000$ to each
person to sign that they are not Greeks but........."Macedonians".:-)))))
The....."Agency" !!!!!
The operation of the CIA to find in northern Greece co-called Macedonians
(Slavs) started at Jen 1994 and the head was the vice-consul of the
American consulate of Thesaloniki David Shuler.
David Shuler except of a vice-consul he was also a CIA official with
specialty in the destabilization of countries and regimes.
Of course this operation was under the knowledge and the protection
of the consul Mrs Myriam Hughes and the ambassador of the American
Embassy of Athens Thomas Nils.
At January 1994 David Shuler met at the only cafe of a small village
outside Florina (Meliti) some Slavs and give them 100000$ and orders
to work on this project finding "Macedonians" (Slavs) in Greece.
Those persons were P.Voscou, Z.Bulef, I. Pasov, D.Dumutriou.
Those 100000$ was the reward of these 4 persons for their work on
this operation.
After this Shuler and his assistants traveled all around Northern Greece
and they found some people (old the most of them and, very poor, and
with less of without education at all), and he persuade them that some
of their grandfathers were "Macedonian" :-))))) giving them 10000$
He give them to sing a paper in Greek and in English which the most of
them were unable to read.
He took all these papers and he send it to the State Department.
The Greek authorities used to follow all the actions of Shuler's team, from
the beginning until the end, but they didn't arrested him for obvious
reasons.
Shuler also after this job he worked in Thrace and he did terrible things
there.
Some time and when Shulers activities became to extraordinary, and
very dangerous, the Greek government call the consul Hughes and ask her
to stop these activities of Shuler.
M.Hughes answer that Shuler is a young man and he has no experience
and he did some bad and wrong things etc.
You know the usual bullshit.
Now about the future
If you are watching the news you should know that after the end of the
war in Kosovo Greece buy everything inside F.Y.R.O.M. even the
central bank of this country, of course under the oversight of the
Americans.
I'm sure that there will be absolutely no problem between the
Greece and the F.Y.R.O.M and i think that the people of this
country are smart enough to understand that Greece is the best
ally for them as Greece never thread them.
On the contrary Albanians and Bulgars used to thread them a lot.
There's no hard feelings about the people of FYROM in Greece
and i think that they are starting to understand that all these are some
of the idiotic things Titto and some stupid nationalists put them in
the head.
There's still some people like this and they used to say this stupid
things which are ridiculous, and that's a problem but i think it will
not be a serious one, i don't think that they are SO stupid !!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure that the people and the politicians of FYROM knows that,
so the future will be excellent for both sides.
Balkans need the peace and i'm sure that's what the Fyromian
people need and want.
Voyager.
I feel pity sometimes, for the people who
read one or more newspapers, and they think
that they know what really happens in the world.
Thomas Jefferson
Former U.S. President.
Friendly
Voyager.
Tasho Alusheff
> "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> good Macedonian"
>
> Goce Delcev
That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates that
there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
******************************************
Good Catch!. so the quote should read, as stated by Delcheff, would be:
----------------------------------
"Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not also as a
good Macedonian"
-G.Delcev
Ilinden
John Alepiloglu the pure Turk wrote:
> Macedonian and Macedonian and Macedonian for the Macedonians not for the
> Ftcogians!!
> Macedonians were always Macedonians not Ftcogians or kozi krastavi from the
> Former Turkish colony of Greece (FTCOG)
> John (Jovan) Alepiloglu the pure Turk or Ftcogian
> Macedonia, FTCOG, Italy, Iran, Iraq.
>
Vasil II Makedonski
mreks...@aol.com (Tasho Alusheff) wrote:
> In article <95r7mi$2bv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
"Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
good Macedonian"
Goce Delcev
> That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
Ahhh, VELIKIPEDERO MORONIC BULLSHIT!
> The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
> Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates
that
> there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
MORE MALAKISMO MAJMUNSKI CRAP!
> ******************************************
> Good Catch!.
The "Good Catch" is Bugaroman DRIVEL from two NEPISMENI! How come Ilija
Talev, well qualified in linguistics, or our Oxford "Istorichar" don't
make a fuss but our two illiterate idiots take the role of "EXPERT
TRANSLATORS" and deciding on the accuracy of the translation?
What do you get when you cross two idiots like Vasko x Tashko?
Answer: Vasko x Tashko = TV (Total Vacuum)! :-))))
Abre BUCHKO BUGAROMANSKI, do you think Velikipeder Majmunski's version
changes the meaning? His perverted and UNIQUE interpretation of
its "HIDDEN MEANING" might, but only in his bulgaromanski delusory
vision! :-)))
IMHO, you two are a match and deserve each other! I propose you two get
engaged and live in eternal Velikipederobugaromanski bliss! :-)
Tashko likes young boys and Vasko - Velikipeder Majmunski - likes it up
his Velikipeder Ga*! Perfect bulgaromanski match! hehehe...!
Zhivya Vulagriya!
Zhivya Velikipederiya!
Zhivya Tatataromongolya!
Zhivya Asparukh!
Zhivja Omurtag!
Zhivja Todorche!!!
Zhivja Vanche Izrodoff!
Zhivja Tataroman Patriotic Organisattion, ZHIVJA!
THE HORSETAIL STANDARD WILL FLY HIGH IN VULGAROMAN GLORY AND PRIDE!!!
> ----------------------------------
TATAROMAN VERSION:
> "Macedonia does not have its own interests and its own policy....
>Whoever wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece
> Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but also
> as a good Macedonian"
> -G.Delcev
>"So pushka na raka i Tatromongolija na sertse!"
> pozdrav do site tataromongolci
>ot Tasho Alushetatar,
> Macedonian NEVER, TATAROMAN FOREVER!
:-)))
June R Harton
YIELD
Or I will pierce you with the maps again!
George S. Tsapanos
>Zhivya Vulagriya!
>Zhivya Velikipederiya!
>Zhivya Tatataromongolya!..........>
Too many TA-TA-TA-TA in here.
Are they Bulgarian or SKOPIAN ones?
But then.....whats the difference.........
June R Harton
> Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> > wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> > Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> > good Macedonian"
> >
> > Goce Delcev
>
> That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
>
> The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
> Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates that
> there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
For once you are completely correct! But you failed to add.....only 'a
geographical Macedonia' used also as a scam.
The Fyromians lost ANY and ALL rights to geographic Macedonia
anything when they tried (and BTW, are darn well still trying!!!!!)
to steal Greek heritage and history!
FYROM is Macedonia nothing!
FYROM is not the area of the ancient Macedonians:
Here, folks, is the truth they don't want you to know.
The real Macedonia:
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa3.jpg
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/mapSeq_Map01.html
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/single_image/0,5716,4461+asmbly_id,00.html
And to the north of Macedonia, the ancient Fyromland area:
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa4.jpg
And Fyrom area in the recent past:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/historical/Balkan_boundaries_1914.jpg
Map from "Report of the International Commission To Inquire
into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars" 1914.
Vasil II Makedonski
mreks...@aol.com (Tasho Alusheff) wrote:
> In article <95r7mi$2bv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
"Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
good Macedonian"
Goce Delcev
> That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
Ahhh, VELIKIPEDERO MORONIC BULLSHIT!
> The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
> Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates
> that there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
MORE MALAKISMO MAJMUNSKI CRAP!
> Good Catch!
The "Good Catch" is Bugaroman DRIVEL from two NEPISMENI! How come Ilija
Talev, well qualified in linguistics, or our Oxford "Istorichar" SN
don't make a fuss but our two illiterate idiots take the role
of "EXPERT TRANSLATORS" and making judgements on the accuracy of the
translation?
What do you get when you cross two idiots like Vasko and Tashko?
Answer: Vasko x Tashko = TV (Total Vacuum)! :-)))
Abre BUCHKO BUGAROMANSKI, do you think Velikipeder Majmunski's version
changes the meaning? His perverted and UNIQUE interpretation of
its "HIDDEN MEANING" might, but only in his bulgaromanski delusory
vision! :-)))
IMHO, you two are a match and deserve each other! I propose you two get
engaged and live in eternal Velikipederobugaromanski bliss! :-)
Tashko likes young boys and Vasko - Velikipeder Majmunski - likes it up
his Velikipeder Ga*! Perfect bulgaromanski match! hehehe...!
Zhivya Vulagriya!
Zhivya Velikapederiya!
Zhivya Tataromongolya!
Zhivya Asparukh!
Zhivja Omurtag!
Zhivja Todorche!!!
Zhivja Vanche Izrodoff!
Zhivja Tataroman Patriotic Organisattion, ZHIVJA!
THE HORSETAIL STANDARD WILL FLY HIGH IN VULGAROMAN GLORY AND PRIDE!!!
----------------------
PERVERTED TATAROMAN VERSION of Goce Delchev's famous quote:
"Macedonia does not have its own interests and its own policy....
Whoever wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece
Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, and also
as a good Macedonian"
G.Delcev
----------------
>"So pushka na raka i Tatromongolija na sertse!"
> pozdrav do site tataromongolci
>ot Tasho Alushetatar,
> Macedonian NEVER, TATAROMAN FOREVER!
:-)))
----------
Here is something extra artistic I stumbled across in my travels today:
Subject: Podaryk na "bratiata" bylgari
Posted by: FilipMakedonski (member)
Date posted on: 08.02.01
--------------------------------
ODE TO BULGARIAN CHAUVINISTS
They dislike my writings’ finality
And equate them with banality
Since I, Macedonian, tackle the centrality
Of the Bulgar-chauvinism’s non-reality.
And when “Macedonians exist” I cry
Their answer: just give them the lie.
Theirs has nothing to do with truth and morality
These aren’t the “brave Bulgarian" qualities
They tell of spiritual keeping of historicity
But the mission is one of duplicity.
Cut and paste, and then again paste and cut
The Bulgar motto: Make Macedonian history smut.
Self-chosen and brazen to complete the quest
Of Bulgar expansion with particular zest
Negating en masse with eloquent crass
Is a past time of joy and sadist employ.
When told of Macedonia’s plight
They show you the door and shout -- out!
By contrast, the Bulgar prose with Greek does match
It supports like views, the denialist touch
On the penis they dwell and of sex they brag
Women are nothing but wombs to be shagged
Minorities pitied, gypsies -- darkskin'd with rags
Macedonians are just few disillusioned fags.
It is all so humorous, funny, and gay
To feel gradour by kicking Macedonian tails?
To falsify, steal, and lie is quite OK
If such deeds further Bulgaria's chauvinistic ways
And than of treatment “in full” one can readily talk
Of Tito, of MANU, and other “serbianized” folk.
Deny their language and link with ancient roots
And tell the world the Macs are Bulgarian fruits.
That Macs must now wear horse's tail for a hat
To prove their whole Bulgarian worth
They must make sons of Kubrat and Ormusag's lot
Must claim that Phillip and Alex are not?
If Macs ever ask "how" with a sniff
The Bulgars retort: it's all ancient myth!
But if the Macs insist on the "how and why"
Well just give them some more Bulgarian lies.
May honest Bulgars forgive me for this crude display
No disrespect to folks without brain decay
You may be real, not the Bulgar chauvinist lot
Meshed in politics by accident and what not.
But if a Macedonian his history show again tries
I am sure the world will see some more Bulgarian lies.
Credit: DOOM, Chapter "Aminta" of Los Angeles.
"Sloboda ili Smrt -- Za Obedineta Makedonija na Makedonskiot Narod"
for fair use only.
----------
Vasil II Makedonski
MACEDON.ORG: http://www.macedon.org/
Ancient Macedonians: http://www.macedon.org/anmacs/
Makedoniaka Online Journal: http://www.makedonika.org/
http://network54.com/Realm/Macedonian_Forums/
http://network54.com/Realm/MACEDONIA/
http://network54.com/Realm/MACEDONIA/News.htm
http://network54.com/Realm/Macedonia_News/balkan.html
http://www.makedonskosonce.com/
la...@my-deja.com
at the original. it can be tranlated in different ways.
1912
Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <20010208194201...@ng-fk1.aol.com>,
> mreks...@aol.com (Tasho Alusheff) wrote:
> > In article <95r7mi$2bv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> good Macedonian"
>
> Goce Delcev
>
> > That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
> Ahhh, VELIKIPEDERO MORONIC BULLSHIT!
> > The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating
that
> > Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates
> > that there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
> MORE MALAKISMO MAJMUNSKI CRAP!
That IS the original whether you like it or not.
Because it rhymes dosent make it's central point true.
--
E = MB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Macedonians/Bulgarians =
Language, Culture, History, Race)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
1912
la...@my-deja.com wrote:
"...no ne i za dobar Makedonec." What do you think the english word is
for "i"? It is "also", "aswell as", "and". In the context of Goce's
words "also" fits in well in the english translation. Anyway even with
the version Makedon posted it still means that Serbs, Bulgarians and
Greekkks were Macedonians and that there were no ethnic Macedonians
because as Goce clearly said he who is devoted to uniting Macedonia
with another country is not a not "good Macedonian" = meaning that that
person, irrespective of actual ethnicty, was a MACEDONIAN to begin with
but not a "good" one. So the term MACEDONIANS in his time was a
geographic term applied to the inhabitants of a region and according to
whether they stood for a sovereing Macedonia or one united with a
neighbour they were "good" or bad MACEDONIANS (and not non-
Macedonians).
Have you finally grapsed the meaning of this famous quote? If not then
you show yourself to be in no position to annalyse complicated and
lengthy historical texts since a simple one like Goce's trueism is
beyond you.
--
E = MB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Macedonians/Bulgarians =
Language, Culture, History, Race)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
June R Harton
FYROM is not the area of the ancient Macedonians:
Here, folks, is the truth they don't want you to know.
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa4.jpg
And Fyrom area in the _recent_ past:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/historical/Balkan_boundaries_1914.jpg
June R Harton
E = FB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Fyromians/Bulgarians =
> Language, Culture, History, Race)
June R Harton
FYROM is not the area of the ancient Macedonians:
Here, folks, is the truth they don't want you to know.
http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa4.jpg
And Fyrom area in the recent past:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/historical/Balkan_boundaries_1914.jpg
Map from "Report of the International Commission To Inquire
into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars" 1914.
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
June R Harton
"1912" wrote
> "...no ne i za dobar Makedonec." What do you think the english word is
> for "i"? It is "also", "aswell as", "and". In the context of Goce's
> words "also" fits in well in the english translation. Anyway even with
> the version Makedon posted it still means that Serbs, Bulgarians and
> Greekkks were Macedonians and that there were no ethnic Macedonians
> because as Goce clearly said he who is devoted to uniting Macedonia
> with another country is not a not "good Macedonian" = meaning that that
> person, irrespective of actual ethnicty, was a MACEDONIAN to begin with
> but not a "good" one. So the term MACEDONIANS in his time was a
> geographic term applied to the inhabitants of a region and according to
> whether they stood for a sovereing Macedonia or one united with a
> neighbour they were "good" or bad MACEDONIANS (and not non-
> Macedonians).
And that all was a scam.
Have you finally grapsed it? If not then you show yourself to be in no
position to annalyse the long and complicated and lengthy history
of the Balkan area.
E = FB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Fyromians/Bulgarians =
Language, Culture, History, Race)
Radeff
So you find it appropriate to give the rites of alliance to this raving lunatic
who is on the trail of saying "it depends on what is is".
None of you can understand the ingrained personalities of the Macedonians who
always included those who were their neighbors (not by borders, btw) and
friends in their land and yet, in those days of fighting for Greece's freedom
the Greek Jews also joined you in the hills to deter the Nazis and God knows
who else before that.
HRA
Ilinden
Junebug the Ftcogian Ropalo Hard head wrote:FTCOG,
FTCOG,FTCOG,FTCOG,FTCOG, FTCOG,
FTCOGIANS,FTCOGIANS,FTCOGIANS,FTCOGIANS,FTCOGIANS.
Junebug the hard head.
G Schneider
la...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I
> also or no also, the meaning is the same in English. you need to look
> at the original. it can be tranlated in different ways.
Post it so we all can make up our minds as to the translation
G Schneider
peli...@my-deja.com
Ilya Talev <ta...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Vasil II Makedonski wrote:
>
> > "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> > wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> > Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> > good Macedonian"
>
> Macedonians - Greeks, Bulgarians, Vlahs,
> Albanians, Serbs and Turks. This is
> exactly what Goce Delchev & Co were
> saying.
>
> IT
Bravos IT bori se za Srbite, Grcite, i Turcite. Sega znam zashto
Makedoncite naj mnogu od site gi mrze Bugarite!
June R Harton
> Makedoncite naj mnogu od site gi mrze Bugarite!
FYROM is not the area of the ancient Macedonians:
Here, folks, is the truth they don't want you to know.
Map from "Report of the International Commission To Inquire
into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars" 1914.
June R Harton
Rads wrote
>"it depends on what is is".
You mean "it depends on what IT is".
Ilya is a Bulgarian like the Fyromians.
It is time for Fyromians to stop lying to themselves:
Kuzman Anastasov Shapkarev
(1834-1909) Faith and Nationality
Q: What is most sacred for man ?
A: His faith and nationality.
Q: What is your faith?
A: I am a christian.
Q: What is your nationality?
A: I am Bulgarian.
Q: Why?
A: Because my parents are Bulgarians and I speak Bulgarian.
Q: Cannot man change his faith and nationality?
A: There are such people who change their religion and nationality but they
commit the gravest sin and they are considered traitors by the world. They
are not dear to any one, everybody hates and despises them and that is why I
shall never think of such things and I shall always try to help such misled
people to find the true path.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
K Shapkarev's "Bulgarsky Boukvar" 1868, p45
[Bulgarian Primer - in the language of the Macedonian Bulgarians]
Kuzman Shapkarev was the greatest collector and publisher of ethnographic
material in Vardar Macedonia. Born in the city of Ohrid, he spent some 30
years (1855-84) as a teacher in this part of Macedonia. He published
hundreds of articles and monographs on the dialects and folklore in the
Periodic Journal of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences (Bqlgarskoto Knijovno
Drujestvo). His major work is "Sbornik ot bqlgarski narodni umotvoreniya" in
three volumes, Sofia, 1891-94.
From the
"Autobiography" (1864)
of Kouzman Shapkarev
The state of education in Macedonia
"Genealogy and life of Kouzman, the son of Tasev (Atanasov), the son of
Paskal, the son of Mihail Shapkarev from Ochrida. Mihail Shapkarev, a
Bulgarian, born in the village of Leskovets, which is at one hour's walk
east of Ochrida, in the Western part of Petrino Mountain, was the father of
two sons called Hadji Peter and Paskal. According to the usual custom of
that time, Mihail went to work in Constantinople and since he stayed a very
long time there, without visiting his family, his wife took her little
children and went on horseback to her husband in Constantinople. After
staying for a while there she returned home again. That is why she was
called later "Stamboulka".
When the end of my stay in Bitolya drew near, that is, when I finished my
studies there, I had to look for a job as a teacher. My teacher Atanasy took
the trouble to find me a job. He tried to place me in Turnovo (a small
village in the district of Bitolya) but failed. Then he tried through Georgy
Tsolev, the best friend and secret adviser of Atanasy, ie mine as well, then
through Atanasy and Yanakiev, to get an appointment for me as teacher in the
village of Neveska or some other village. Meanwhile some people from
Koukoush, of whom Stameno Petsov was one, put up at our inn once and invited
me for a teacher in Koukoush (where the spark of love for our mother
Bulgarian tongue had not been kindled yet). I am very much obliged
especially to two of my teachers - one of them Mile Skopachev, who being a
good psalm singer, taught me to sing and understand a little of
hymn-singing; while the other - Kostadin Hr. Ouzounov, was the first to
inspire me with the desire to study my native language. He gave me a Serbian
primar (because there were no Bulgarian primars in our part of the country,
and no one even thought of studying Bulgarian, while now, thank God, the
situation is quite changed), taught me to understand the letters and kindled
the first sparks of love for our language in me. God bless his soul in
heaven! That year I studied geography, mathematics, ecclesiastical history,
together with Ancon Mitanov and Vasil Dyamandiev.
During the three years of my being a teacher in Strouga two important things
in my life took place there. The first was that I introduced in school for
the first time the teaching of our native language the Bulgarian language,
which about a century (70 years) ago was in danger of disappearing
completely. The reason for this introduction was closely connected with the
late Dimiter Miladinov, of whom we shall speak more later on in this book.
This worthy man, being a teacher in Greek for many years, was naturally for
a while a supporter of the Greeks and persecutor of the Bulgarians. But
during the last years of his life (just like St. Paul) he was aware of his
delusion, in which not only all Bulgarians in Macedonia but even he himself
had fallen, and renouncing his former errors he zealously worked even to the
day of his death for the spiritual revival of the people, and the
introduction of the Bulgarian language in the Bulgarian churches and
schools, in which the Greek language was used at that time. The endeavours
of this worthy man inspired me also to introduce the Bulgarian language
which I learnt to read a little as early as 1856 in Ochrida from Kostadin
Hr. Ouzounov - in my school. But I lacked the necessary books. I received
help, however, from the same person. Because after he returned to his place
in Prilep he sent me 15 Serbian primars with church letters. Then after he
went to Koukoush he sent me a sufficient number of Bulgarian primars and
histories, published by the Archimandrite Parteny Zografsky, the present
bishop of Polyanin (Koukoush). This is the first event. And the second one
is that at the end of my second year there (Oct. 30th, 1858) I was engaged
to Elisaveta D. Miladinova, and married her five years later [Sept. 25th,
1863].
The Name Macedonians
In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:
"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
June R Harton
Gail Schneider wrote
> but not also as a good Macedonian
GEOGRAPHIC, right Gail?!
And thank you for the invitation to post this for people to see
that the Fyromians are simply Bulgarians:
June R Harton
FYROM is not the area of the ancient Macedonians and the
Here, folks, is the truth they don't want you to know.
June R Harton
Gail Schneider wrote
> Post it so we all can make up our minds as to the translation
Stop spamming here Gail. You have no say in the matter.
Laci
great intellect..... the fact is that with or without "also" the
statement reads the same..... and your interpretation of is not
necessarily true. those (from Macedonia) who work for the interest of
Bulgaria, Serbia or Greece do not necessarily have to be Serbs Grks or
Bugs......he does not say that... they could simply be Srbomani
Bugaromani Grkomani.....aj da ne ja preteruvam.
June R Harton
http://www.soros.org.mk/archive/G01/A01/as0106.htm
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
1912
Laci, your problem is that you try and ascertain what other people
think. You can never be successful in this habit. Judge people for
their words and not for your own prejudiced view of them.
I am not making you believe anyhing.
I am merely a factory worker not a scholar with pretensions of
intellectualism. I state my opinions on issues as I see them. The world
is a competition of ideas. Everyone has them and according to how they
are argumentatively formulated in speech or on paper will depend on
their success or failer. You seem to want to promote your opinions by
putting the character of a person down for holding contrary opinions to
yours. This is a low tactic in defending your position but you are free
to use which ever tactic as you please. At the end of the day it is the
arguiemnts which will determine an issue not the personal insults.
the fact is that with or without "also" the
> statement reads the same.....
Thats right.
and your interpretation of is not
> necessarily true. those (from Macedonia) who work for the interest of
> Bulgaria, Serbia or Greece do not necessarily have to be Serbs Grks or
> Bugs......he does not say that...
Thats right he DOESNT say that.
they could simply be Srbomani
> Bugaromani Grkomani.....aj da ne ja preteruvam.
If he wanted to say that he would have. You are basically saying that
by his words he was classifying people into ethnic groups not by their
ethnicity but by their political stand on Macedonia's sovereignty. Do
you realise how ridiculous your argument is? You either belong to an
ethnic group or you dont, political views excluded.
I feel that you simply cannot bring yourself to agree with me on this
issue. Thats fine.
June R Harton
E = FB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Fyromians/Bulgarians =
> Language, Culture, History, Race)
Here:
Take with warm milk:
Taken from George Cawkwell's (Fellow of the University College,
Oxford) "Philip of Macedon," Faber & Faber, London, 1978, pp. 22-3:
"The Macedonians were Greeks. Their language was Greek, to judge by
their personal names and by the names of the months of the calendar;
Macedonian ambassadors could appear before the Athenian assembly without
needing interpreters; in all Demosthenes' sneers about their
civilization there is no hint that Macedonians spoke other than Greek.
But it was a distinct dialect not readily intelligible to other
Greeks; linguistically as geographically, Macedonia was remote from
the main stream of Greek life. King Alexander 'the Philhellene' had
been allowed to compete in the Olympic Games only after his claim to
being Greek had been fortified by the claim that the Macedonian ruling
house had originated in Argos in the Peloponnese, which really
conceded that those who sneered at Macedonia as 'barbarian' were
right. The sneers went on. The sophist Thrasymachus at the end of the
fifth century referred even to king Archelaus as a 'barbarian.'
Isocrates in the fourth no less than Demosthenes spoke of the
Macedonians as 'barbarians.' The truth was that Macedon was as
culturally backward as it was liguistically remote, and even the exact
Thucydides classed it as 'barbarian.'[1] Archelaus began to change
all this and to make clear the Greeknes of his country. It was
under him that the city of Pella began to be not only the 'greatest
city in Macedonia' but also a show-place which Greeks desired to
visit, a centre of Greek culture. Archelaus was a generous patron of
the arts, and the leading literary figures of the age were happy
to reside at his court. Euripides spent his last years in Macedon,
and wrote there the Bacchae and the Archelaus.
At Dium in the foothills of Mount Olympus a Macedonian Olympic
Festival was instituted which included a drama competition.
There must have been an appreciative audience. Under
Archelaus, Macedon had ceased to be a cultural backwater."[2]
[1] For Macedonians as ambassadors, cf. Aeschines 3.72; for dialect,
Curtius Rufus 6.9.34ff. and Plut. Alexander 51; for Alexander the
Philhellene at Olympia, Hdt. 5.22; for Thrasymachus, Diels Vorsokratiker
85 B 2; Isoc. 5.108, Thuc. 2.81.
[2] For Pella, Xen. Hell. 5.2.13, Aelian Varia Historiarum (Ael. V.
H.) 14.17; for poets and artists, Athenaeus 345d, Plut. Moralia 177
AB, Ael. V.H. 2.21 and 13.4, Suidas s.v. Euripides atc.; for the
dramatic
festivals at Dium, Arrian Anab (A.A).1.11.1, Diodorus Siculus
(D.S.)17.16.3.
Radeff
>You were born knowing everything !!
>As about me, Alexander the Great told me that I am Macedonian !!
>Do you love name "Ivan" ?? Alexander no !!
>John Alep
>Macedonia, Greece
>>>
le le le le
John, when did you talk to Alexander?
HRA
>
>
>
>
>"Tasho Alusheff" <mreks...@aol.com> wrote:
>> No, Ivan, the question is: who told YOU, this crap that YOU spout? I
>wouldn't
>> take any tips at the track from whomever it was.
>> Tasho
>
1912
Remember this Nada = you were the one who personally insulted me by
calling me a liar for my previously held opinion of Macedonism saying
that I was of a different view all the time and was pretending to be a
Macedonist. You cant quite face the conseuqences of your attack. You
have now even resorted to using Harton's debating style of insults. Do
you think you have read her "raving lunatic" line a bit too much? It
sure looks that way. Why does the Goebelist "repeat something a
thousand times and it will sink in" tactic come into mind here?
--
E = MB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Macedonians/Bulgarians =
Language, Culture, History, Race)
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Ilinden
Like Kuzman Shapkarev, we Macedonians, have had other Macedonians
calling themselves Bulgarians. Just like Greeks who have called
themselves Romans. In Yugoslavia, which was a mixture of nationalities,
the people there called themselves Yugoslavians. This was before 1991.
Since the disintegration of Yugoslavia in 1991, these same people now
refer to themselves with the proper name for their nationality. These
nationalities are Croatian, Serbian, Slovenian and Macedonian.
Just like Grigor Prlichev, who initially called himself Greek, but then
he woke up and he realized that he was at heart and in actual fact
Macedonian. Why, because both of his parents were Macedonian. And they
only spoke Macedonian, and no other lanugage. Even in my own village,
some of the people consider themselves Serbian, Greek or Bulgarian. And
not one of these villagers speak anything other than Macedonian! This is
ridiculous. You are who you are born of. Nothing can change that.
Ilinden
Junebug R Hard head wrote:
> Rads wrote
> >"it depends on what is is".
>
> You mean "it depends on what IT is".
>
> Ilya is a Bulgarian like the FTCOGIANS
>
> It is time for FTCOGIANSto stop lying to themselves:
Radeff
Sure I said you were changing your views and/or stance on your identity. It was
as obvious as the thrashing of a fish out of water.
May I remind you that you are but a bleep on the screen of those who have found
it necessary to attack me here. Yet, not one went as far as you have with the
one exception of some of your newly founded compatriots a few years back.
JH does not have the copyright on "raving lunatic". I do not emulate his style
of writing.
As for the Goebelist citation, ask those who practice it.
HRA
Voyager
Iliden wrote that the name Macedonia is an
ilyrian name.
The truth of course is that the name Macedonia is a Greek name
and it means land of the tall man.
WHY ILIDEN WROTE THAT ???????
IS ILIDEN AN ALBANIAN WHO'S TRYING TO CREATE HATE
BETWEEN THE GREEKS AND THE FYROMIAN PEOPLE???
Note that the 38% of ther citizens of FYROM are Albanophones
hmmmmmmmm
iliden the supposed "Macedonian" who lives in the
other side of the world and who has no contact with
the Balkans.
The governments of Greece and Fyrom has found the way
to work together for the common interest, so who cares
about lunatics from USA and Canada like iliden, Radeff
Gail Schneider, "Macedon" etc.
and their supposed interest about the region.
Go to a shrink iliden.
RUN YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME.
I am the
Voyager
George S. Tsapanos
>Repeat questions from Junebug , repeat answers! You are an insidious person.
>Like Kuzman Shapkarev, we Macedonians, have had other Macedonians
>calling themselves Bulgarians.>
Ilin-Den
The REAL MAKEDONIANS NEVER USED BULGARIAN FLAGS.
Regards to all ..................L.
"Vlachs, The Autochthonous
Of the Hellenic Peninsula".
June R Harton
Ilindra wrote
> Repeat questions from Junebug , repeat answers! You are an insidious
> person.
No, ilindra, it is very simple (like you), no matter any and all lies
that you people post here the truth is the truth. That is what I post
against your moronic lies.
> Like Kuzman Shapkarev, we Macedonians, have had other Macedonians
> calling themselves Bulgarians.
You are Macedonian nothing. And what you say is not what is exposed
in the Shapkarev post. What is exposed is YOU...you are a little
BULGARIAN and none of your lies can change that.
Others actually CAN read and they see that in black and white here:
It is time for Fyromians to stop lying to themselves:
June R Harton
"1912" the raving lunatic wrote
> E = MB x 4
>
> (Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Macedonians/Bulgarians =
> Language, Culture, History, Race)
E = FB x 4
(Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Fyromians/Bulgarians =
Language, Culture, History, Race)
:)
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
June R Harton
Rads wrote
> JH
Spirit
> does not have the copyright on "raving lunatic".
:)
John Alep
Give a chance to you !!
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
..........................................
Stephan Nikolov
> Bravos IT bori se za Srbite, Grcite, i Turcite. Sega znam zashto
> Makedoncite naj mnogu od site gi mrze Bugarite!
Well, IT missed out also the Armenians and Jews - two groups, actually THE
two groups who supported the Bulgarian rebellion.
SN
Stephan Nikolov
news:95sa72$9m2$3...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> Good Macedonian is which has Greek name, language, ways and spreads Greek
> language and civilization as Macedonians always were doing.
And what do you do with the bad ones - senetence to inprisonmet ?
SN
John Alep
SlavoSkopian deniers of their Slav origin !!!)
How about you? ( do not answer! the question is rhetoric: You have no
Macedonian at all !!! )
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
"Stephan Nikolov" <stephan...@history.oxford.ac.uk> wrote:
> John Alep" <ale...@vip.gr> wrote in message
Stef
> In Greece we have ONLY good Macedonians !! ( The others you mean are just
> SlavoSkopian deniers of their Slav origin !!!)
> How about you? ( do not answer! the question is rhetoric: You have no
> Macedonian at all !!! )
Again wrong, Alepino boy.
Have you missed the numerous statements of Ilya Talev that he is Macedonian?
But of course he is also Bulgarian. It is not a contradiction of terms. If
you are Bulgarian from Macedonia, you are Macedonian - simple as that.
SN
Voyager
http://www.hri.org/docs/macque/
http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/PageData/list_of_inscriptions.htm
http://www.ancientgreece.com/
http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/06/en/politics/top/top000.html
http://www.macedonia.com/greek/
http://cal044202.student.utwente.nl/~marsares/history/index.html
MACEDONIA MEANS GREECE
Well again !!!!!!!!!!!
I think I have to make a history lesson which is part of
every good ELEMENTARY school around the world !!!!!
When we are talking about Macedonians we are talking
about Greek people and the history of them starts the 6th
again the 6th century BEFORE Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Macedonians were Dorians as the Spartans were.
Macedon it's a Greek name and it means tall-man.
They were speaking Greek, having Greek education Greek
religion, Greek costumes, Greek names, and they were the
part of the Greeks who achieve to unified all the Greeks together.
Also a lot's of the greatest minds of the antiquity expect the
political and military leaders were Macedonians.like the
Aristotel and many-many others.
Alexander and Aristotel were THE Greeks as All the Macedonians
of course. If you want more just read the Aristotel.
At the Byzantine times the greatest and longest dynasty of
emperors were the Macedonian dynasty, they also were Greeks
them language was the Greek etc.
The people you call "Macedonians" are SLAVS and the Slavs
came to the Balkan's region at the 7th century AFTER Christ !!!!
Some of the emperors of the Macedonian dynasty defend the
the Greek empire of the middle ages (Byzantine) in many wars
against the Slavs who were trying to invade into it.
Now we learn that Slavs can't be Macedonians for all these reasons
above.
One more time in summary.
1) Macedonians history starts at the 6th century BEFORE Christ.
2) So called Macedonians(Slavs)history starts at 7th century
AFTER Christ. 1100 years of distance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3) Macedonians language was always the GREEK !!!!!!!!!!!!!
4) So called Macedonians language is Slavonic very similar to
Bulgarian language.
Now about the latest history.
The Republic of Macedonia was a Tito's creation and it had to
do with his plans to come down to the Aegean sea.
Tito name this part of the formal Yugoslavia as Macedonia after
the second world war for this reason.
The name of this country before that was Bardarska Banovina.
Of course Titto change everything since then and he started teaching
the kids of this country that they come from Alexander the Great
and they are the great Macedonians for the reason above.
After the fall of the communism in Europe the Americans having
many interests and plants for the region pushed things for the
independence of all the formal Yugoslavia federal countries.
They used Macedonia as a tool to blackmail Greece and to
achieve to push Greece to give them the things they wanted
the way they wanted.
Like the issue of the new NATO military bases in Greece the
oils of the Aegean sea, and of course the silence and cooperation
of Greece during the Bosnian and Kosovo wars, which was the
major targets of the USA in it's effort to put it's foots into the Balkans.
There was even CIA agents around this area those years who trying
to find very poor people and they offered them 10000$ to each
person to sign that they are not Greeks but........."Macedonians".:-)))))
The....."Agency" !!!!!
The operation of the CIA to find in northern Greece co-called Macedonians
(Slavs) started at Jen 1994 and the head was the vice-consul of the
American consulate of Thesaloniki David Shuler.
David Shuler except of a vice-consul he was also a CIA official with
specialty in the destabilization of countries and regimes.
Of course this operation was under the knowledge and the protection
of the consul Mrs Myriam Hughes and the ambassador of the American
Embassy of Athens Thomas Nils.
At January 1994 David Shuler met at the only cafe of a small village
outside Florina (Meliti) some Slavs and give them 100000$ and orders
to work on this project finding "Macedonians" (Slavs) in Greece.
Those persons were P.Voscou, Z.Bulef, I. Pasov, D.Dumutriou.
Those 100000$ was the reward of these 4 persons for their work on
this operation.
After this Shuler and his assistants traveled all around Northern Greece
and they found some people (old the most of them and, very poor, and
with less of without education at all), and he persuade them that some
of their grandfathers were "Macedonian" :-))))) giving them 10000$
He give them to sing a paper in Greek and in English which the most of
them were unable to read.
He took all these papers and he send it to the State Department.
The Greek authorities used to follow all the actions of Shuler's team, from
the beginning until the end, but they didn't arrested him for obvious
reasons.
Shuler also after this job he worked in Thrace and he did terrible things
there.
Some time and when Shulers activities became to extraordinary, and
very dangerous, the Greek government call the consul Hughes and ask her
to stop these activities of Shuler.
M.Hughes answer that Shuler is a young man and he has no experience
and he did some bad and wrong things etc.
You know the usual bullshit.
Now about the future
If you are watching the news you should know that after the end of the
war in Kosovo Greece buy everything inside F.Y.R.O.M. even the
central bank of this country, of course under the oversight of the
Americans.
I'm sure that there will be absolutely no problem between the
Greece and the F.Y.R.O.M and i think that the people of this
country are smart enough to understand that Greece is the best
ally for them as Greece never thread them.
On the contrary Albanians and Bulgars used to thread them a lot.
There's no hard feelings about the people of FYROM in Greece
and i think that they are starting to understand that all these are some
of the idiotic things Titto and some stupid nationalists put them in
the head.
There's still some people like this and they used to say this stupid
things which are ridiculous, and that's a problem but i think it will
not be a serious one, i don't think that they are SO stupid !!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure that the people and the politicians of FYROM knows that,
so the future will be excellent for both sides.
Balkans need the peace and i'm sure that's what the Fyromian
people need and want.
Voyager.
I feel pity sometimes, for the people who
read one or more newspapers, and they think
that they know what really happens in the world.
Thomas Jefferson
Former U.S. President.
Friendly
Voyager.
Stef
news:969ofj$grg$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
>
> http://www.hri.org/docs/macque/
> http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/PageData/list_of_inscriptions.htm
> http://www.ancientgreece.com/
> http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/06/en/politics/top/top000.html
> http://www.macedonia.com/greek/
> http://cal044202.student.utwente.nl/~marsares/history/index.html
>
> MACEDONIA MEANS GREECE
>
> Well again !!!!!!!!!!!
> I think I have to make a history lesson which is part of
> every good ELEMENTARY school around the world !!!!!
Well, why don't you instead learn abit more about Greek hisstory.
I suggest to check out the Greek ethnographic maps of Macedonia published in
1899 and 1917 defining Macedonia .... The latter one is very suggestive,
indeed: it speaks of "Macedo-Slavs" precisely in the region of Skopje,
following obviously the good old Serbian prifessor Cvijic.
SN
June R Harton
"Stef" <ste...@balkania.com> wrote in message
news:969n1l$k76m8$1...@ID-20053.news.dfncis.de...
That is only true as far as saying born a Greek citizen of the province
of Macedonia for Ilya if he was. Otherwise it is simply part of the scam.
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
...........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
June R Harton
"Stef" wrote
> Well, why don't you instead learn abit more about Greek hisstory.
> I suggest to check out the Greek ethnographic maps of Macedonia
> published in 1899 and 1917 defining Macedonia .... The latter one
> is very suggestive, indeed: it speaks of "Macedo-Slavs" precisely
> in the region of Skopje, following obviously the good old Serbian
Quite possibly. However, conventions and scams of the past where
they were part of a bigger picture at that time are only used as the
'truth' today by persons trying to mislead todays public.
And that is exactly what is happening with the so-called 'geographic
Macedonia'. It was not that on the ground and everyone knew that
at that time....it is propaganda validation to ignore this axiomatic
fact.
George S. Tsapanos
>Well, IT missed out also the Armenians and Jews - two groups, actually THE
>two groups who supported the Bulgarian rebellion.
>
>SN>
Why........are you forgetting "your" Romanians?
Krasimir Yalamov
> "Stef" <ste...@balkania.com> wrote in message
> news:969n1l$k76m8$1...@ID-20053.news.dfncis.de...
> > "John Alep" <ale...@vip.gr> wrote in message
> > news:968v9t$1t3$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> > > In Greece we have ONLY good Macedonians !!
They are as good as everywhere else and specifically --
throughout the whole Makedonia.
> ( The others you mean are
> just
> > > SlavoSkopian deniers of their Slav origin !!!)
> > > How about you? ( do not answer! the question is rhetoric: You have no
> > > Macedonian at all !!! )
> > Again wrong, Alepino boy.
> > Have you missed the numerous statements of Ilya Talev that he is
> Macedonian?
> > But of course he is also Bulgarian. It is not a contradiction of terms. If
> > you are Bulgarian from Macedonia, you are Macedonian - simple as that.
>
> That is only true as far as saying born a Greek citizen of the province
> of Macedonia
Silly propaganda
> for Ilya if he was. Otherwise it is simply part of the scam.
>
> from: Spirit Of The Scam
June R Harton
"Stef" <ste...@balkania.com> wrote in message
news:969n1l$k76m8$1...@ID-20053.news.dfncis.de...
> "John Alep" <ale...@vip.gr> wrote in message
> news:968v9t$1t3$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> > In Greece we have ONLY good Macedonians !! ( The others you mean are
just
> > SlavoSkopian deniers of their Slav origin !!!)
> > How about you? ( do not answer! the question is rhetoric: You have no
> > Macedonian at all !!! )
> Again wrong, Alepino boy.
> Have you missed the numerous statements of Ilya Talev that he is
Macedonian?
> But of course he is also Bulgarian. It is not a contradiction of terms. If
> you are Bulgarian from Macedonia, you are Macedonian - simple as that.
That is only true as far as saying born a Greek citizen of the province
Voyager
The only thing i can see is that nobody ever dare to
question this post of mine about Macedonian history
including you Stefan Nikolov.
Moreover you deleted the 90% of my text and you posted
an idiotic comment.
Macedonia means Geeece as the history the archeological
exhibits and a great number of other sources has proved.
Live with it.
Voyager
Steff wrote
Stef
>
> The only thing i can see is that nobody ever dare to
> question this post of mine about Macedonian history
> including you Stefan Nikolov.
> Moreover you deleted the 90% of my text and you posted
> an idiotic comment.
>
> Macedonia means Geeece as the history the archeological
> exhibits and a great number of other sources has proved.
>
It is too boring to go over all the whole tiresome text.
I can't indulge in writing lengthy replies correcting every idiotic posts
anonymously published over here.
Still, I would advice to read about the "Macedonian" dynasty - they were
ARMENIANS, as a matter of fact, not Greek.
SN
John Alep
Or born in so called "Pirin" Macedonia ??
What is Macedonian in Pirin ??
What is Macedonian on him ?? ( I know !! blood !!! hahahahahahahaha !!! ).
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
John Alep
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
Voyager
So the Macedonian dynasty of Byzantion was an Armenian
dynasty ?????????????????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Did you here that guys ????????:-))))))))))))))))))))
Now i'm 100% Steff boy about the fact that your mothers
patients are your best friends.
To hard to grow up with a psychiatrist as a mother indeed!!!!!
You have my sympathy and my understanding.
Voyager.
Steff wrote
G Schneider
1912 wrote:
> In article <95r7mi$2bv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Vasil II Makedonski <mak...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > "Macedonia has its own interests and its own policy...... Whoever
> > wishes to work on attaching Macedonia towards Bulgaria, Greece or
> > Serbia can be considered a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a
> > good Macedonian"
> >
> > Goce Delcev
>
> That is a deliberate revisionist misquote!
>
> The original is "..but not ALSO as a good Macedonian" indicating that
> Serbs, Greekkks and Bulgarians were Macedonians and also indicates that
> there did not exist a Macedonian ethncity in his time.
I would say that it did indicate Macedonians at his time. Invert the
sentence to understand its logic. You cannot be a good Macedonian as well
as being one who strives to attach Macedonia to Bulgaria, Greece or Serbia.
>
>
> --
> E = MB x 4
>
> (Ethnic Group = Common Denominators = Macedonians/Bulgarians =
> Language, Culture, History, Race)
>
miltiadiss
Stef <ste...@balkania.com> a écrit dans le message :
969n1l$k76m8$1...@ID-20053.news.dfncis.de...
If
> you are Bulgarian from Macedonia, you are Macedonian - simple as that.
>
> SN
>
No, Stef, you are not "Macedonian", you are "macedonian". I am sure you know
the difference better than me, so be careful with these "little" details...
MiltiadisS
George S. Tsapanos
>Still, I would advice to read about the "Macedonian" dynasty - they were
>ARMENIANS, as a matter of fact, not Greek.
>
>SN>
Now....now........Stefan
Let's don't over doing it!
Anastassios D. Retzios
Stef,
This is a bit too much and you know it. It is possible that Basil I did
have Armenian lineage (although by not means certain), but this certainly is
not certain for all the rest of the familial members of the dynasty.
Interlopers such as Romanos Lekapenos and Ioannis Tsimiskes had stronger
Armenian connections but neither was Armenian with the real sense of the
word.
ADR
Stef
There were two major lines of interpretation of Basil's ancestry: Slavic and
Armenian.
The Greek connetion has never been taken seriously although a third ligue
narrations from the late 18th century might have mislead second rate
historians to propose Greek Thracian origins.
Now it is universally accepted that Basil was indeed of Armenian origin.
As for the "Greek origin of Basil", G. Moravczik, "Sagen und Legenden ueber
Basileos I", in DOP has refuted it once for all.
"The two crimes, the assassination of Caesar Bardas in 866 and that of
Michael III in 867, which brought Basil I to the throne, illustrate still
further the influential position which the Armenian element had come to have
in the imperial court. The instigator of the both crimes, was of course
Basil himslef, but it was only with the assistance of a number of other
important persons that he was able to bring them about. It has been said
that all those personages , like Basil himself were of Armenian descend.
But if for this view there is no absolute proof, it can be shown readily
that the majority of Basil accomplices were indeed Armenians."
Peter Charanis , The Armenians in the Byzantine Empire (Lisboa 1963), p 26
Follow the full list of assistants: "Among those three are definitely known
to have been Armenians: Marianos, Basil's brother, Symbathos Basil's
son-in-law and Bardas, the brother of Symbathos". (ibid.)
The cousin of Basil, Leo the Assyrian (then Assyria was called lower
Armenia) also took part in the enterprise.
So, as you can see, Basil was an Armenian, who organised the Armenian mafia
to help him kill his sponsor, Michael III (who was also of remore Armenian
descend, anyway).
SN
Stef
news:20010212213829...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >Well, IT missed out also the Armenians and Jews - two groups, actually
THE
> >two groups who supported the Bulgarian rebellion.
> >
> >SN>
>
> Why........are you forgetting "your" Romanians?
>
Nope, these wre not "Romanians" , but Vlachs, Yorgo, blood from your blood
and flesh from your flesh.
SN
George S. Tsapanos
>Nope, these wre not "Romanians" , but Vlachs, Yorgo, blood from your blood
>and flesh from your flesh.
>
>SN>
But then.....how come you didn't include such ilustrious brothers of mine in
that ""THE two groups who supported Bulgarian
rebellion""?.....................:)))))
George S. Tsapanos
Stefan wrote:
>There were two major lines of interpretation of Basil's ancestry: Slavic and
>Armenian.
>The Greek connetion has never been taken seriously although a third ligue
>narrations from the late 18th century might have mislead second rate
>historians to propose Greek Thracian origins.>
Well..........and now listen in first one more connection that
MAKEDONO-VLACHIAN from the NEVROKOPI AREA.
>Now it is universally accepted that Basil was indeed of Armenian origin.>
That's because that LIAR and FORGERER of history FOTIOS presented him as such
when simply Basil the First was ARMAN(U).
Basil was better known by the surname "KEFALAS" meaning "the one having big
head).
But in the VLACHIAN language such adjective is MAGATAN(U) after which he was
named.....MAKEDWN.
>As for the "Greek origin of Basil", G. Moravczik, "Sagen und Legenden ueber
>Basileos I", in DOP has refuted it once for all.>
Too bad, because is not clear yet WHAT kind of VLACHS those MAKEDONO-VLACHS
from NEVROKOPI might have been.
>"The two crimes, the assassination of Caesar Bardas in 866 and that of
>Michael III in 867, which brought Basil I to the throne, illustrate still
>further the influential position which the Armenian element had come to have
>in the imperial court. The instigator of the both crimes, was of course
>Basil himslef, but it was only with the assistance of a number of other
>important persons that he was able to bring them about. It has been said>that
all those personages , like Basil himself were of Armenian descend.>
Ha!
And everyone ""FORGETS"" certain ""minor"" details.
Basil was married to the daughter of IGGER or INGER, leader of the MARTINACIANS
one of the elitic clans of Konstantinoupolis.
On page 576 OSTROGORSKY'S book History of the Byzantine State you can see such
marriage with EUDOCIA INGERINA.
But IGGER-INGER in the Rumano-Vlachian dialect is called the
ANGEL...........meaning that the MARTINACIANS also were .........VLACHS and
ancestors of the more HELLENIZED NAME OF AGGELI........another Byzantine
Dynasty 1185-1204.
INGERS=ANGELS=ANGELI.........
Now one of them was the creator ( or his successor) of the DESPOTATON OF EPIRUS
or.............VLACHIAS ( GREATER AND LESSER...DO YOU REMEMBER THEM?).
His name.....MIHALICIUS same as the VLACHIAN MIHALICIOU.
And now.... in such a way we arrive in ONE MORE struggle between VLACHS.
THEODORE ANGELIS against IVAN ASSEN THE SECOND...................:)))))))
And BOTH houses that of the ANGELI and that of the LASCARIDS are ending up
connected with the.............PALAEOLOGUS
FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From the WEST.........of course.................!
>But if for this view there is no absolute proof, it can be shown readily
>that the majority of Basil accomplices were indeed Armenians.">
Forget about the TOTAL ARMENIAN connection and throw in the garbage certain
""HISTORIANS"".........
>Peter Charanis , The Armenians in the Byzantine Empire (Lisboa 1963), p 26
>Follow the full list of assistants: "Among those three are definitely known
>to have been Armenians: Marianos, Basil's brother, Symbathos Basil's
>son-in-law and Bardas, the brother of Symbathos". (ibid.)
>The cousin of Basil, Leo the Assyrian (then Assyria was called lower
>Armenia) also took part in the enterprise.>
Later..........later..............they even attempted to make SAMUEL an
ARMENIAN while he was just an ARNAN(U) one.
>So, as you can see, Basil was an Armenian, who organised the Armenian mafia
>to help him kill his sponsor, Michael III (who was also of remore Armenian
>descend, anyway).>
So.....as I told you.......don't go so FAST.
>SN
Stephan Nikolov
> Abre Stefan...........I asked you not to over do it...........
>
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >There were two major lines of interpretation of Basil's ancestry: Slavic
and
> >Armenian.
> >The Greek connetion has never been taken seriously although a third ligue
> >narrations from the late 18th century might have mislead second rate
> >historians to propose Greek Thracian origins.>
>
> Well..........and now listen in first one more connection that
> MAKEDONO-VLACHIAN from the NEVROKOPI AREA.
>
> >Now it is universally accepted that Basil was indeed of Armenian origin.>
>
> That's because that LIAR and FORGERER of history FOTIOS presented him as
such
> when simply Basil the First was ARMAN(U).
> Basil was better known by the surname "KEFALAS" meaning "the one having
big
> head).
> But in the VLACHIAN language such adjective is MAGATAN(U) after which he
was
> named.....MAKEDWN.
>
I am very sorry, Yorgo, but I hgave to diappoint you. Peter Charanis, as
well as my own view, depend not on Photius, but on the Bios tou Basiliou
written by noone else but the court historian of his grandson, canstantine
Porphyrogenitus. If you wanna tell us that Constantine VII was a liar, I
would evenmtually agree, to the extent that Basil was not really descendant
of the most noble Armenian house of the Bagratidi, that is of princely
Armenian origins, as his granson would make us believe. He was of rather
humble origin - Armenian colonists settled in the Theme of Macedonia by
Constantine Copronimos.....
SN
Stephan Nikolov
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >Nope, these wre not "Romanians" , but Vlachs, Yorgo, blood from your
blood
> >and flesh from your flesh.
> >
> >SN>
>
> But then.....how come you didn't include such ilustrious brothers of mine
in
> that ""THE two groups who supported Bulgarian
> rebellion""?.....................:)))))
>
>
Well, the Vlachs did not do it as wholeheartedly as the Arnmenians and the
Jews.
As a matter of fact, both these peoples have traditionally enjoyed the
Bulgarian sympathies.
SN
George S. Tsapanos
>Well, the Vlachs did not do it as wholeheartedly as the Arnmenians and the
>Jews.
>As a matter of fact, both these peoples have traditionally enjoyed the
>Bulgarian sympathies.
>
>SN>
So.........we have THE two groups and then we have another one a little farther
that was a little less......traditionally supporting the Bulgarians.....right?
George S. Tsapanos
>I am very sorry, Yorgo, but I hgave to diappoint you. Peter Charanis, as
>well as my own view, depend not on Photius, but on the Bios tou
Basiliou>written by noone else but the court historian of his grandson,
canstantine>Porphyrogenitus. If you wanna tell us that Constantine VII was a
liar, I>would evenmtually agree, to the extent that Basil was not really
descendant>of the most noble Armenian house of the Bagratidi, that is of
princely>Armenian origins, as his granson would make us believe. He was of
rather>humble origin - Armenian colonists settled in the Theme of Macedonia by
>Constantine Copronimos.....
>
>SN
And I'll just mention Ostrogorsky:
""That is,from the north-western Thrace (see above p.194).Altough he is usually
described as Makedonian,and the dynasty he founded is referred to as the
Makedonian dynasty,he had nothing to do with Macedonia proper,but rather was
born in Thrace,in the region of Andrianople.It is also far from certain that he
was of Armenian extraction,as is usually assumed,and as is asserted with great
conviction by Adontz,"Basile I". ""
Now...........That Adonts is the same one attempting to present SAMUEL as
an.........Armenian one, and we went thru that sometime ago. ARMENIA-ARMENIAN
is too close to ARMAN(U)-ARMONIAN especially when the CHURCH they were to
ELIMINATE or HIDE the EXISTANCE of such..........LATIN speaking populations!
Iam sorry Stefan, but EVERYTIME that the CHURCH is involved in something---and
those days it was on everything---- my ears begin buzzing me for some reason.
HOW MANY ARMENIANS have you read about living in north-western Thrace those
days?
Thats LOWER MOESIAN land and maybe a little of UPPER MOESIA.
ARMENIANS in THERE?Kopronymos placed people all over of course but don't you
think that we should be far from certaincy with regards Basil being
an.......Armenian?
Not to forget of course his personal differences with Fotios whom he send to a
monastery..............
Stephan Nikolov
Don't trust Ostrogorsky - he wants Basil to be Slav following Vasiliev.
Still, it is not the Church, but rather Constantine VII who wanted his
grandfather to be descendant of ARMENIAN
princely house. And, although he might be wrong of the Social stand, he
couldn't have got wrong his own orins.
SN
Stef
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >Well, the Vlachs did not do it as wholeheartedly as the Arnmenians and
the
> >Jews.
> >As a matter of fact, both these peoples have traditionally enjoyed the
> >Bulgarian sympathies.
> >
> >SN>
>
> So.........we have THE two groups and then we have another one a little
farther
> that was a little less......traditionally supporting the
Bulgarians.....right?
>
Nope. Yorgo. We have that another group that succumbed to the symoniac
Patriarchate of Constantinople.......
SN
George S. Tsapanos
>Nope. Yorgo. We have that another group that succumbed to the symoniac
>Patriarchate of Constantinople.......
>
>SN>
Stefan Haven'tyou figured out yet, that the Vlachs give a dry fig about
Konstantinoupolis?
Look what happened last year..........Bartholomy visited the entire western
Greece exept Florina, the land of the Vlachs and their Bidhop, close friend to
the Patriarchate of .............Jerusalem!
George S. Tsapanos
>Don't trust Ostrogorsky - he wants Basil to be Slav following Vasiliev.
>Still, it is not the Church, but rather Constantine VII who wanted his
>grandfather to be descendant of ARMENIAN>princely house. And, although he
might be wrong of the Social stand, he>couldn't have got wrong his own orins.
>
>SN>
Wrong Stefan, neither wants him to be Slav. Vasiliev is stating ""the Greek
sources are talking about the Armenian or Makedonian origins of Basil the A,
while the Armenian sources are attesting to his Armenian origins,while the Arab
sources are calling him a Slav ..........and others mainly the Russian
historians till the ends of the 10th century were considering him a
Slav......""
Now....Vasiliev ends by saying that we should consider him as a,Armeno-Slav and
he is mentioning his book ""The origins of Emperor Basil the Makedonian""
Vizantisky Vremmennik XII 1906,148-65 inn Russian (the note has been taken from
his book History of the Byzantine Empire page 374.
Now........Basil was born in XARIOUPOLIS according to Papadopoulos,but
then....AMANTOS is telling us (page 436 volume A History of the Byzantine
State) that his mother's name was PAGALW with the accent in the omega.
PAGAL-W-.......Gee Stefan.....long time I didn't hear such a name.......a
name--and similar like this-- that not only it is Greek 100%, but in addition
in western Greece was quite common.....MARIGW-MARIW ETC.ETC. ......So Basil at
least 50% he wasn't what ever they are saying he was.
Now.........Ido believe that DYNASTIES,ROYAL HOUSES, etc.etc. not only HIDE
their secrets but they also KNOW their secrets and ACCORDNGLY their descendants
are acting in the future.
You and everyone else in here of course know my "THEORY" concerning Basil the
B! the "BULGARSLAYER" who was actually a MAKEDONIAN-VLACHIAN slayer.
Basil the B, now, was a descendant from both sides (mother-father) from Basil
the A the Makedonian.
But.....if he went to the west to kill the Makedonians, my SUSPICIONS are that
he was of SKLAVENIAN blood,from what was known as.......Makedonia those days,
and BULGARIA one or another time.
Basil the A, Basil the B, and the so-called Makedonian dynasty, they were half
Greeks as many people those days and the other half they were SKLAVENIANS from
MOESIAhating the Makedonians and everything to the West of the Empire.
Samuel,the Assens and few others including the REAL Makedonians that were
transformed in....VLACHS,were representing the REAL WEST, the REAL MAKEDONIANS,
the REAL HELLENES and that the reason that were hated from the Byzantine Empire
an Empire made up of BARBARIANS................
Stef
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >Nope. Yorgo. We have that another group that succumbed to the symoniac
> >Patriarchate of Constantinople.......
> >
> >SN>
>
> Stefan Haven'tyou figured out yet, that the Vlachs give a dry fig about
> Konstantinoupolis?
> Look what happened last year..........Bartholomy visited the entire
western
> Greece exept Florina, the land of the Vlachs and their Bidhop, close
friend to
> the Patriarchate of .............Jerusalem!
>
Sure.... Nevertheless, your ancestors, Yorgo, succumbed once. This was ONE
of the
reasons the Ochrid Archbishopric was abolished. The matter were the souls of
the
Bulgars and the .... money of the Vlachs....
SN
Dirty Harry
TO SELECT MEMBERS ONLY).
HERE'S A REAL "GREEK" FOR YOU LOL. (JUST LIKE YOU RETZIOS)
SEE WHY WE HATE YOU GRKOMANS SO MUCH?
HAVE A NICE DAY.
: George S. Tsapanos" wrote in message
: news:20010215232015...@ng-mn1.aol.com...
: > The SKOPIAN without a country wrote: :
: >
: > >(St. Louis) Granite City, Illinois -
: 1907
: > >(Harrisburg) Steelton, PA - 1908
: > >
: > >Have a Nice Dat.>
: >
: > You mean the ones that my BULGAROPHILE
: relatives builded?
: >
: > xaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxa
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Posted by It's true on 2/18/2001, 9:37 pm , in reply
: to "Here's Geroge's Post ........"
:
: This is true, George claims to be related to
: long time Granite City Ill. MPO family of
: Henry Karandjieff, Banker.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Posted by Dirty Harry on 2/18/2001, 9:41 pm , in reply
: to "Georges family in Granite City were big MPO
: members"
:
:
: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
: CAN IT GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS??????
: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Posted by XXXXXXX on 2/18/2001, 10:21 pm , in
: reply to "Re: Georges family in Granite City were big
: MPO members"
:
: It sure can -GT's relatives came from the same
: village as Slavko Mangovski. Smrdesh?
YOU CANT FOOL THE WORLD MUCH LONGER
EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO YOU ARE.
"George S. Tsapanos" <lyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010219104802...@ng-mn1.aol.com...
G Schneider
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >Nope. Yorgo. We have that another group that succumbed to the symoniac
> >Patriarchate of Constantinople.......
> >
> >SN>
>
> Stefan Haven'tyou figured out yet, that the Vlachs give a dry fig about
> Konstantinoupolis?
> Look what happened last year..........Bartholomy visited the entire western
> Greece exept Florina, the land of the Vlachs and their Bidhop, close friend to
> the Patriarchate of .............Jerusalem!
Oh, you must mean Patriarch Dorotheus, friend to the Macedonian Orthodox, God rest
his soul! Lesno mu e!
June R Harton
"G Schneider" <oh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> Oh, you must mean Patriarch Dorotheus, friend to the Macedonian Orthodox,
God rest
> his soul! Lesno mu e!
Schismatic heretic....you wish to give me more confimation
of your schismatic heretical condition?
Just fine, Gail, just fine.
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
"You take the lies out of them, and they'll shrink to the size of your
hat, you take the malice out of them, and they will disappear."
Mark Twain (even Mark Twain knew about the Fyromian revisionists)
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
FYROM President Kiro Gligorov: "We are Slavs who came to this area in the
sixth century . . . we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
(President of FYROM Ciro Gligorov, from the Foreign Information Service
Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35. )
P Gevgeliev wrote in "Skopje revives macedonian spectre", Free
Bulgaria,pp229-230,
It is true that we have given up the teaching of "Macedonian history", a
high falutin term for the ravings of a handful of maniacs in Skopje who are
so far gone in their nationalistic dementia and mental aberration as to
claim that the present "Macedonian" people are descendants of
Alexander the Great.
These "historians" seem to overlook the fact that the Slav tribes came to
this territory fully a thousand years after the death of Alexander the
Macedon."
George S. Tsapanos
>Sure.... Nevertheless, your ancestors, Yorgo, succumbed once. This was ONE
>of the>reasons the Ochrid Archbishopric was abolished. The matter were the
souls of>the>Bulgars and the .... money of the Vlachs....
>
>SN>
No......no........Stefan, you have it all wrong.
The Archbisopric didn't succumb, it was ELIMINATED and the reasons were not
that it'speople were Bulgars it was the OTHER WAY around.
Since 1410 the Archbisopric had received many of the Bulgarian Bisoprics,after
the destruction of the Bulgarian state from the Ottomans in 1393.
And by 1459 the Axrida Archbisopric had received those Serbian ones.A deal like
everything else between the Ottoman and the Patriarch.
However they were pushing it one more time KNOWING that EVERYTHING in and
around Axrida was VLACHIAN!
An Axridian Archbishop voting for the election of the Bishop of
Hungary-Wallachia in 1456?
Losing the Kastoria Bishopric and that of Sisanio in the 17th century?
Having FOUR of its Bishops between 1600 and 1640 becoming CATHOLICS?
Another one bringing his intentions to become CATHOLIC between 1655 and 1667?
THESE ARE THE REASONS for Phanari getting involved and ABOLISHING the
ArchBisopric.
They have been trying since JUSTINIAN PRIMA back in 535 to make THAT CHURCH and
THOSE people good CHRISTIANS and they FAILED.
The introduction of KYRILLOS language didn' help, the selling off and naming
the Church a BULGARIAN one didn't help, the arriving of SKLAVENIANS and
sklavenians and plenty ""Makedonians"" from Asia didn't help, the EXARCHY
didn't help either.......
Those people the ANCIENT MAKEDONIANS they were VLACHS and they wanted to STAY
that way.
Only in the last 150 years or so Konstantinoupolis emerged victorious just
because the Hellenes wanted to be free from the Turks, and YET..........and YET
Konstantinoupolis doesn't TRUST them and the Patriarch would NOT VISIT them.
FLORINA and PRESPA the OLD Axrida-Pelagonia-Prespa,bishopries are STILL guarded
with a SUSPICIOUS eye from the PHANARI.
The companion and the alternative for those VLACHS against the POPE has been
JERUSALEM.
Did you take some time to see how many times Jerusalem Patriarchs have been in
places that they shouldn't have been?.......:))))))
They were NOT Bulgars in and around Axrida Stefan, THATS why the people ALMOST
became good CATHOLICS.
George S. Tsapanos
>Oh, you must mean Patriarch Dorotheus, friend to the Macedonian Orthodox, God
>rest
>his soul! Lesno mu e!>
Patriarch Dorotheus?
Where was he baptized as Christian?
The Makedonians are in the Church of HELLAS.
G Schneider
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
>
> >Sure.... Nevertheless, your ancestors, Yorgo, succumbed once. This was ONE
> >of the>reasons the Ochrid Archbishopric was abolished. The matter were the
> souls of>the>Bulgars and the .... money of the Vlachs....
> >
> >SN>
>
> No......no........Stefan, you have it all wrong.
> The Archbisopric didn't succumb, it was ELIMINATED and the reasons were not
> that it'speople were Bulgars it was the OTHER WAY around.
> Since 1410 the Archbisopric had received many of the Bulgarian Bisoprics,after
> the destruction of the Bulgarian state from the Ottomans in 1393.
> And by 1459 the Axrida Archbisopric had received those Serbian ones.A deal like
> everything else between the Ottoman and the Patriarch.
> However they were pushing it one more time KNOWING that EVERYTHING in and
> around Axrida was VLACHIAN!
Then why were the services in Slavonic?
>
> An Axridian Archbishop voting for the election of the Bishop of
> Hungary-Wallachia in 1456?
> Losing the Kastoria Bishopric and that of Sisanio in the 17th century?
> Having FOUR of its Bishops between 1600 and 1640 becoming CATHOLICS?
> Another one bringing his intentions to become CATHOLIC between 1655 and 1667?
> THESE ARE THE REASONS for Phanari getting involved and ABOLISHING the
> ArchBisopric.
Post some textual data on that assertion. I think it is pretty well established
that the Phanar wanted quasi political and taxation control over the areas that
came under it.
>
> They have been trying since JUSTINIAN PRIMA back in 535 to make THAT CHURCH and
> THOSE people good CHRISTIANS and they FAILED.
Your opinion?
>
> The introduction of KYRILLOS language didn' help, the selling off and naming
> the Church a BULGARIAN one didn't help, the arriving of SKLAVENIANS and
> sklavenians and plenty ""Makedonians"" from Asia didn't help, the EXARCHY
> didn't help either.......
> Those people the ANCIENT MAKEDONIANS they were VLACHS and they wanted to STAY
> that way.
One assertion does not prove another.
>
> Only in the last 150 years or so Konstantinoupolis emerged victorious just
> because the Hellenes wanted to be free from the Turks, and YET..........and YET
> Konstantinoupolis doesn't TRUST them and the Patriarch would NOT VISIT them.
> FLORINA and PRESPA the OLD Axrida-Pelagonia-Prespa,bishopries are STILL guarded
> with a SUSPICIOUS eye from the PHANARI.
> The companion and the alternative for those VLACHS against the POPE has been
> JERUSALEM.
It is amazing how little the Vlachs are mentioned in Phanariot documents, then?
>
> Did you take some time to see how many times Jerusalem Patriarchs have been in
> places that they shouldn't have been?.......:))))))
> They were NOT Bulgars in and around Axrida Stefan, THATS why the people ALMOST
> became good CATHOLICS.
No, they were Macedonians and pockets of numerous other peoples
G Schneider
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Oh, you must mean Patriarch Dorotheus
Diodorus
> , friend to the Macedonian Orthodox, God
> >rest
> >his soul! Lesno mu e!>
>
> Patriarch Dorotheus?
Diodorus
>
> Where was he baptized as Christian?
My mistake. I meant His Beatitude, DIODOROS, Patriarch of the Holy City of
Jerusalem and All Palestine , recently fallen asleep in the Lord. Dorotheus is
Metropolitan of Poland. (There have been too many hierarchical liturgies I have
been singing lately). He was probably baptized in Greece where he was born:
12:05) Greek Orthodox Patriarch Diodorus
dies
Associated Press
Jerusalem's Greek Orthodox patriarch for 19 years,
Diodoros 1, has died. He was 77.
Diodoros I was born Damianos Kalrivalis in 1923 in Greece
and immigrated to then-British mandate Palestine in 1938.
He became a monk in 1944 and was renamed Diodoros
Kalrivalis. Three years later he was named a priest and
became an archbishop in 1962.
He was named patriarch in 1981.
Diodoros died late last night at Hadassah Hospital in
Jerusalem after suffering from liver ailments related to
diabetes, said Father Dimitrios, secretary of the Greek
Orthodox holy senate in Jerusalem.
George S. Tsapanos
Galina wrote:
>Then why were the services in Slavonic?>
WHEN the services were in Slavonic and WHERE?
>Post some textual data on that assertion. I think it is pretty well
>established
>that the Phanar wanted quasi political and taxation control over the areas
>that
>came under it.>
Go to a library and educate yourself You have somedates work with them.
Learn what happened to the Archbisopric during those days and more in general
to the empire.
>Your opinion?>
Everybody'sopinion including DOTIOS KLEMES and the rest of the Russian-slav
speaking missionaries from Vithinia's SOLOUN.
>One assertion does not prove another.>
Galina...........the language of Kyrillos wasn't made for the Axrida people, it
was made for the SLAVO-MORAVIANS.......
Open your eyes.
>It is amazing how little the Vlachs are mentioned in Phanariot documents,
>then?>
Makes you wonder, doesn't?
The ENTIRE Greece being known as Greater and Lesser VLACHIA, Samuel's and
Assen's Empires both VLACHIAN, and the..........PALAEOLOGI and AGGELI
dynasties close relatives of those.......VLACHS!
>No, they were Macedonians and pockets of numerous other peoples>
Sure they were, meaning they were HELLENES.
One of these days you'll realize who the TRUE Hellenes were and are.
June R Harton
commie-minded covert netnazi whore to history and truth
wrote the following referring to West Bulgarians:
> No, they were Macedonians and pockets of numerous other peoples
Gail, no one is interested in your filthy lies, so stop your spamming
here.
This forum is alone held for the exposure of fyromian
TitoBulgarians as Macedonian nothings.
G Schneider
"George S. Tsapanos" wrote:
> Galina unless you show your idiocy in here you can't resist can you ?
>
> Galina wrote:
>
> >Then why were the services in Slavonic?>
>
> WHEN the services were in Slavonic and WHERE?
being disingenious, are ya boy?
>
>
> >Post some textual data on that assertion. I think it is pretty well
> >established
> >that the Phanar wanted quasi political and taxation control over the areas
> >that
> >came under it.>
>
> Go to a library and educate yourself
Not an adequate response to a suggestion you back up your statement, is it boy?
> You have somedates work with them.
> Learn what happened to the Archbisopric during those days and more in general
> to the empire.
>
> >Your opinion?>
>
> Everybody'sopinion
uh, not really
> including DOTIOS KLEMES and the rest of the Russian-slav
> speaking missionaries from Vithinia's SOLOUN.
Photios, Kliment, Solun
>
>
> >One assertion does not prove another.>
>
> Galina...........the language of Kyrillos wasn't made for the Axrida people, it
> was made for the SLAVO-MORAVIANS.......
Uh, th local languageof Solun was used to missionize the Moravians
>
> Open your eyes.
>
> >It is amazing how little the Vlachs are mentioned in Phanariot documents,
> >then?>
>
> Makes you wonder, doesn't?
Sho does.
>
> The ENTIRE Greece being known as Greater and Lesser VLACHIA, Samuel's and
> Assen's Empires both VLACHIAN, and the..........PALAEOLOGI and AGGELI
Angeli
>
> dynasties close relatives of those.......VLACHS!
we must all be Vlachs.
>
>
> >No, they were Macedonians and pockets of numerous other peoples>
>
> Sure they were, meaning they were HELLENES.
> One of these days you'll realize who the TRUE Hellenes were and are.
well, there's yer hellenes and then there's yer greeks and then there's yer basic
hellenic and then yer hellenizing and hellenized .....all the way up to the present
with your forced "hellenizations", better described as forced
neo-hellenizations....kinda like neo-calssical is to the classical....
June R Harton
Gail, no one is interested in your ignorance nor you,
so stop your spamming here.
This forum is alone held for the exposure of fyromian
TitoBulgarians as Macedonian nothings.
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
.........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek