MACEDONIA IS NOT GREEK, READ YOU PEOPLE!!! (p.s. I'm Greek)

GreekWolf

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Aug 17, 2003, 6:37:15 AM8/17/03

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Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!

Regards

Dimitris

Yannis the Makedonian

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Aug 17, 2003, 7:20:55 AM8/17/03

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"GreekWolf" <gr_c...@yahoo.com> wrote:..

Macedonians of 187x to 1914 and later defended their Greekness against
Turkish occupation and SlavoSkopian-Bulgarian excruciation.
The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
If ancient Macedonians were Greeks ( which is true of course), then, no
non-Greek people can be named Macedonian even if it occupies Macedonia.
Just as Turks that occupy Ionia are not Ionians. Just as Bulgarians that
occupy Thrace are not Thracians.
Do you believe that if Bulgarians had Macedonia they would be named
Macedonians ?
Anyway you obviously have read history of 1910 to 1914. Feel free to tell
us about.
( I doubt that you are Greek. )
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

WolfWolf

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Aug 17, 2003, 1:58:59 PM8/17/03

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"Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f3f6258$2...@news.sch.gr...

> The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.

That's why Macedonians will always defend their Macedonianness against attacks by
Greeks.
Wouldn't Greeks do the same if Macedonians suddenly claim that they were Greeks?

WolfWolf
The European

Yannis the Makedonian

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Aug 17, 2003, 5:25:15 PM8/17/03

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"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
> > The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
> That's why Macedonians will always defend their Macedonianness against
attacks by
> Greeks.
> Wouldn't Greeks do the same if Macedonians suddenly claim that they were
Greeks?
> WolfWolf
> The European

Dear Farter,
The cargo of the Macedonian name is for SlavoSkopians empy if not carbages
and shame, because Macedonians were always Greeks and spread Greek Language
and Civilization to the World.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

WolfWolf

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Aug 17, 2003, 6:06:39 PM8/17/03

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"Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f3feeb5$1...@news.sch.gr...

> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
> > > The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
> > That's why Macedonians will always defend their Macedonianness against
> attacks by
> > Greeks.
> > Wouldn't Greeks do the same if Macedonians suddenly claim that they were
> Greeks?
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
>
>
>

> Dear Father,

I didn't claim fatherhood, boy, otherwise your education would be better ....

> The cargo of the Macedonian name is for SlavoSkopians empy if not carbages

... and your writings would be meaningful instead of gluposti
- cargo???
- slavo.. what???
- empy???
- carbages???

Stop smoking pot, it's not good for health.

And don't forget that Greeks are Greeks and Macedonians are Macedonians, which are two
totally unrelated identities since Macedonians came from the north while Greeks are
immigrants from sub-Saharan origin.

WolfWolf
The European

Ilinden

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Aug 17, 2003, 9:42:42 PM8/17/03

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Dimitri, keep up the good work, regards, Ilinden the Macedonian

Grigor Gatchev

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Aug 18, 2003, 5:12:00 AM8/18/03

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"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bhp0io$q94$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> And don't forget that Greeks are Greeks and Macedonians are Macedonians, which are two
> totally unrelated identities since Macedonians came from the north while Greeks are
> immigrants from sub-Saharan origin.

Sorry, but this is not true.

Every people is eventually imigrants from sub-Saharan origin, and
Greeks no more than any other. Macedonians were one of the tribes,
together with Dorians, Ionians, Spartans etc., that eventually merged
into the Greek identity. The origin and habitat of all these tribes is
common.

rikopal

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Aug 18, 2003, 5:17:13 AM8/18/03

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FYROM's President Gligorov at a interview reported by the Foreign
Information Service, Daily Report, Eastern Europe: "We are Slavs, who came
to this region in the sixth century. We are not descendants of the ancient
Macedonians."

FYROM's Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, in her speech on
the present situation in the Balkans: "We do not claim to be descendants of
Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language. Greece is
FYROM's second largest trading partner, and its number one investor".

In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's
Ambassador to Canada: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who
produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are Slav people and
our language is closely related to Bulgarian." He also commented "there is
some confusion about the identity of the people of this country".

gr_c...@yahoo.com (GreekWolf) wrote in message news:<f280118e.03081...@posting.google.com>...

WolfWolf

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Aug 18, 2003, 2:38:06 PM8/18/03

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"rikopal" <rik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6a1f773.03081...@posting.google.com...
>
>

Rikohead, which was the by far biggest single investor in Macedonia, outnumbering all
others during the last 10 years???
Your obtuse answer please no gluposti ...

WolfWolf
The European

lab

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Aug 18, 2003, 3:56:05 PM8/18/03

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My friends scopian people...a lot time a go...when you eat radix we make
Parthenon ;-)
What is your history???or you stole it for us???

ONE HELLINIC PEOPLE

? "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
news:3F402F12...@sympatico.ca...

rikopal

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Aug 19, 2003, 6:24:30 AM8/19/03

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Why more than 10000 pupils in Skopia are learning Greek??

Why most of them are girls??

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bhr8hb$mdl$8...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

George

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Aug 19, 2003, 9:03:43 AM8/19/03

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Hello all Guys. first of all i would like to apologisze for the
ego-pathetic style and attitude of my shithead greek compatriot (
Lambros) as he spoke with no arguments exposing Greece. My dear i fell
sorry for you. Indeed Macedonia was never greek however on the other
hand was never Serb or Bulgarian. Geografically certainly it was but
ethnologically was never. If you read history this is easy to be
understood. Every people living in the so called Macedonia area had
its own civilisation, and culture and during the ages some had th
upper hand depending at which part geographically they were. Do not
confuse nations and tribes with modern countries and citizenships. Do
not forget that till early 1900 all the region was under Turkish
occupation so there were no borders and people were able to move
around. So the mixing was inevitable. Greeks were almost everywere (
as traders), Bulgarians were living in Thrace, Slavs were living in
Greek Macedonia. This does not mean that any of them has any right for
territorial claims. The natural borders ( mountains, rivers, lakes,
etc), the leading spoken language, and the religion beyond these
borders, are the sole and solid proof. Macedonians they were never a
nation. We have greek macedonians, who are GREEKs who speak greek, etc
etc. We have Bulgarian Macedonians who are BULGARIANS and of course we
have Slav Macedonians who are MACEDONIANS not because such a nation
exists but because on 1948 a "country" with such a name was created by
TITO. The creation of a modern type country does not mean that a
nation was created overnight. Is it to difficult to understand ? All
the alleged current complications are non sense. I will be glad to
hear from you.

"lab" <labro...@freemail.gr> wrote in message news:<bhrb7v$124f$1...@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>...

Ilinden

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Aug 19, 2003, 3:23:09 PM8/19/03

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Rikohead you are stupid.

Anastassios Retzios

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Aug 19, 2003, 5:47:17 PM8/19/03

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gr_c...@yahoo.com (GreekWolf) wrote in message news:<f280118e.03081...@posting.google.com>...

Dimitri

I do not believe you are Greek because, if you were, you would have
not used the term "don't be fooled by our politicians". Politicians
in Greece never spearheaded this issue which has been and is a
grassroots issue. And many of us in Macedonia do not have to listen
to anybody because we had members of our families who were involved in
the fight for the Greek Macedonia. And if you were Greek you would
have not have used the weird time period of 1910-1914 because it means
nothing. The struggle for Macedonia between Greek and Bulgarian bands
in the countryside occured mainly between 1903 to 1908 and the Balkan
wars took place in 1912 to 1913. Other important dates in the history
of Macedonia is the Bulgarian occupation of much of the area between
1915 and 1918 during the period of WWI (when the trenches ran just to
the North of Thessaloniki) and so on and so forth. Being as ignorant
as you are of Greek history, do not come here proposing to "open our
eyes" where yours are so tightly shut.

ADR

WolfWolf

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Aug 19, 2003, 3:42:30 PM8/19/03

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"rikopal" <rik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6a1f773.03081...@posting.google.com...

> Why more than 10000 pupils in Skopia are learning Greek??
>
> Why most of them are girls??

Who said that, rikohead?
Another propaganda bullshit from your politburo???

From the website of the German Foreign Ministry:
"Given the close political and economic ties between the two countries, Macedonians
are very interested in learning the German language. Supply is sometimes outstripped
by demand. In terms of enrolments, German is the third most popular foreign language
(behind English and French); in terms of importance it ranks second."

Now cry in your porridge, rikohead!!

WolfWolf
The European

Ilinden

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Aug 19, 2003, 10:04:51 PM8/19/03

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Tashko Retchkov open up your prazna tikva.
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Lithoxoou

The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the Macedonian organization BMPO
(Vamero). The Metropolitan of Kostur, Karavangeli, paid him 10 liras monthly to leave the BMPO
organization and to join the Greek side and to fight against the Macedonians.

While in Gabresh, Melas said that the villagers did not speak even one word of Greek. Melas would
wish the villagers a good evening by saying dobra vecher in Macedonian.

Saturday, March 20, 1904 in Oshtima (oschima) Melas said that he tried to learn a few Macedonian
words so that he could speak to the inhabitants of the village and bribe them.

In the morning of June 9, 1904, Karavangelis sent Turkish troops from Kostur to Rula. The guide was
Pavle Kirovski from Zhelevo. This was to catch Kote Hristov because Karavangelis wa suspicious of
the communication between Kote and Koleti. Kote was apprehended and put in jail, in Kostur, Korcha
and Bitola. Karavangelis agreed to free Kote if he would become a guide for the Turks. Kote refused
and was hanged September 27, 1905 in Bitola.

September 17, 1904 Melas went to Prekopana and took as prisoners the teacher and priest. Outside of
the village they were killed by Pirzas, Katsamakas, and Barbadreas.

February 17, 1905 Mihalis Tsontos went to the Macedonian village of Mogila, Kostur. In 1926 the
Mogila village name was changed to Ano Perivolion.

Kaoudis killed 5 Macedonians in the outskirts of Zagorichani.

Vangelis Galianos slaughtered 12 Macedonians at Harachari Lakko on March 7, 1905.

On March 14, 1905 a Macedonian priest was murdered in Blatsa, Kostur.

The true story of how Pavlos Melas was killed was told by Petro Hatsitasis in 1927, in Statitsa. In the
home of Kantzaki. Hatsitasis was also hidden in the home. Volanis said only one gun shot was heard and
then groan. Lakis Pirsas was the murderer of Melas, and also stole his bag full of liras. He left the battle
and disappeared. He re-appeared the next summer in Macedonia. The older people from Statitsa know
very well that Pirsas killed Melas and not a Turkish bullet.

The Bloody Wedding in Zelenich: On Sunday, November 13 the Macedonian priest was at the wedding
of his niece. Katehaki and Kaoudis were looking for the house of Stoyan Gotev. That is where the
wedding was being held. You could hear songs and music in Macedonian. Katehaki and Daoudis
entered the room, saw the bride and started shooting. They killed 47 men and 3 women. What
happened at this wedding is unforgettable and unforgivable to the people of Zelenich.

Vardas had in his mind to kill Macedonians from the village of Zagorichani. He got together with
Karavangeli who gave him the black list of Macedonians. The slaughter was to take place March 25,
1905, Varda and Karavitis had 180-200 men with them in their gang. In the morning of March 25,
1905, Varda went to the village, one of the men gave the signal with a trumpet call. And they then
attacked the village. They started to set fire to each house. The night became brighter than the day from
all the fires burning. The killing of the villagers and setting off bombs continued for 3 hours.

Raptis said that we had a feast with slaughtering the villagers, according to a man this was written in
Poulaka's diary.

The Turkish police were close by in Kumanichevo. They heard what had happened in Zagorichani and
went there. Varda and Karavitis, along with their gang, ran into the mountains taking 27 hostages with
them. They had left the village burning. The roads were filled with dead bodies.

Ilias Capetanakis said that as he was running through the village each path held at least 8-10 dead.
Women and children were wailing for their dead. The murderers continued the slaughter by killing the
hostages they had taken into the mountains.

Pavlos Patros had a knife and a bayonet and killed the hostages.

The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state that Greece liberated
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even liberate herself. Greeks
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek historians write only lies.

rikopal

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Aug 20, 2003, 6:34:06 AM8/20/03

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President of Vlachs in monastir speaking at a documentary:

"More than 10000 pupils are learning Greek because they want to find
work in Greece"

If you have any question Doggie ask him.Personally I don't give a shit
what they are learning...

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bhu9uo$iv$7...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

Yannis the Makedonian

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Aug 20, 2003, 7:27:10 AM8/20/03

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"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
.......................................

> Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
> Lithoxoou
> The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO

..........................................................

> The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
> Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
> perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.

Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect
and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. Macedonians were
always Greeks. As for SlavoSkopians please read what their hero Dame Gruev
wrote: http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

WolfWolf

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Aug 20, 2003, 8:26:28 AM8/20/03

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"Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f435733$1...@news.sch.gr...

> "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
> .......................................
> > Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
> Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
> > Lithoxoou
> > The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
> Macedonian organization BMPO
> ..........................................................
> > The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
> that Greece liberated
> > Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
> liberate herself. Greeks
> > perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
> historians write only lies.
>
>
>
> Macedonians had always Greek names

So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???

WolfWolf
The European

WolfWolf

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Aug 20, 2003, 9:03:37 AM8/20/03

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"rikopal" <rik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:c6a1f773.03082...@posting.google.com...

> Personally I don't give a shit
> what they are learning...

No wonder, H2OHEAD, since learning is against your nature.

unread,

Aug 20, 2003, 5:47:12 PM8/20/03

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"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
..............................

> > The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either.
> And your detailed etymological analysis is where?
> You might ask a true Macedonian for help.
> I'm sure Ilinden himself would be a good choice.
> WolfWolf
> The European

I asked a Bulgarian and told me that Ilinden is the composition of the
words Ilia and den. Ilia stands for Ilia the prophet, a Jewish name that
passed to Bulgarian through Greek ( Christianity) and den in day. Ilinden
is the day of Ilia that is Julie the 20nth in Christian diary.
At that time at 1903 Bulgarians organized a revolution in Krushevo, they
failed, Turks killed mainly Vlachs ( =Greeks) because Bulgarians left the
site for Sofia and Dame Gruev sent the famous letter to his Bulgarian
brothers: http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Be sure that the commentof my chum Ilinden, if any, will be an amount of
insults for Turko-Greki and alike.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

WolfWolf

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Aug 20, 2003, 6:26:14 PM8/20/03

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"Anastassios Retzios" <adre...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4f2b5361.03082...@posting.google.com...

Hmmm .... I think that the main street in Skopje has the name "Bul. Ilindenska", which
makes it a toponym.
There is also a municipality with the name "Ilinden".
Very Macedonian, but certainly not very Greek.

I showed this very simple example in order to help Ioannis to get rid of his
absurdities.
You, Tassos, seem to be more attracted by them than by clear and transparent evidence.

WolfWolf
The European

WolfWolf

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Aug 20, 2003, 6:42:32 PM8/20/03

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"Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f43e8fd$1...@news.sch.gr...

> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
> ..............................
> > > The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either.
> > And your detailed etymological analysis is where?
> > You might ask a true Macedonian for help.
> > I'm sure Ilinden himself would be a good choice.
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
>
>
> I asked a Bulgarian

And why didn't you ask a Chinese???
"Ilinden" appears in the international heraldry as a town or village in Macedonia with
its own arms:
http://www.ngw.nl/int/oveur/mac/mac.htm

And more about "Ilinden" is to be found here:
http://www.ilinden.mk/

Remember that you are fired!!

WolfWolf
The European

Ilinden

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Aug 20, 2003, 10:03:37 PM8/20/03

to

Alepiloglu open your blind eyes, here are the Turkotatar names.Ilinden is a
pure Macedonian name do you the meaning of the word?
Subject: Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names
Here are the original Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names. Asparuh, Tervel,
Kardam, Komepej, Sevar, Kopmisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin, Umor, Toktu,
Pagan, Ditsehg, Tsok, Omirtag, Telerig. In the 9th century, the
Bulgarians adopted the Macedonian alphabet and language. They gave up on
their Turko-Tatar language and names.
Ilinden

Ilinden

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Aug 20, 2003, 10:10:46 PM8/20/03

to

Jovanche Asparuh has nothing to do with ilinden. The Tatars in Bulgaria do
not recognize the seven nationalities living there ,they adopt the Grekiki or
Ftcogian policy they are uncivilized like you Mr. Alepiloglu.
Ilinden

Ilinden

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Aug 20, 2003, 10:23:30 PM8/20/03

to

Rechkov, somebody ask me what language do you speak? I said Macedonian, he asked my friend how
about you? the Russian man said Russian, a lady was sitting next to us she said I speak Slovenian.
I said to the person who ask the questions we have a nincompoop his name is Tashko Rechkov
according to him we should say slavic , and he said I'm a Portuguese and I speak Portuguese.
Rechkov when you ask a Russian what nationality are you he is going to tell you Russian not Slavic
, Rechkov you are discombobulated very bad.
Ilinden the Macedonian

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 4:55:05 AM8/21/03

to

learn something ,since you are learning, from your own president Bulgaroturk:

FYROM's President Gligorov at a interview reported by the Foreign
Information Service, Daily Report, Eastern Europe: "We are Slavs, who came
to this region in the sixth century. We are not descendants of the ancient
Macedonians."

FYROM's Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, in her speech on
the present situation in the Balkans: "We do not claim to be descendants of
Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language. Greece is
FYROM's second largest trading partner, and its number one investor".

In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's
Ambassador to Canada: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who
produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are Slav people and
our language is closely related to Bulgarian." He also commented "there is
some confusion about the identity of the people of this country".

Grigor Gatchev

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Aug 21, 2003, 12:01:39 PM8/21/03

to

"Yannis the Makedonian" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:<3f44...@news.sch.gr>...

Oh God. Now there are seven (other) nationalities in Bulgaria
non-recognized. (Other than Turks, Jews, Greeks, Serbs, Romanians,
Armenians etc., who are recognized.)

It would be funny if it was not boring. With a proper scholing, these
guys would make excellent sci-fi writers. And with a counsel of not
plagiarizing - Great Serbs pipe this tune already for nearly a
century.

Oh, and I forgot the piece about Bulgarians abandoning their Tatar
alphabet and language in 9th century in favor of the Macedonian ones.
Probably the Brits also abandoned their Portugal alphabet and language
in 4th century in favor of the Australian ones...

I should be waiting for more discoveries in the world history by these
pals.

By the way, my fellow Russians declared me a plain liar because of
that fabulous pro-Macedonian document, discussed before. I am held
guilty now for a failed doctoral work...

yme...@albanian.com

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 1:36:47 PM8/21/03

to

Nga Veton Surroi

1.
Në javën e tetë të bombardimeve të vitit 1999, Sergio Vieira de Mello nuk
lëvizte asnjë nerv të fytyrës ndërsa zyrtarët serb i shpjegonin në fshatin
Korishë se si “kriminelët e NATO-s “ po vrisnin civilë shqiptarë. Në fushën
e djegur, përballë rrugës, ca ditë më parë forcat serbe kishin detyruar
shqiptarët, hipur në traktorë, herë të shkonin kah Shqipërisë e herë të
ktheheshin (manovër, e cila më vonë do të zbulohej, ishte përdorur për të
lëvizur forcat serbe, e për të hutuar bombarderët e NATO-s) dhe në mbrëmje i
kishin detyruar të mblidhen, si mburojë e gjallë nga NATO-ja apo UÇK-ja.
Gati 90 shqiptarë u vranë, në incidentin më të rëndë me viktima civile,
gjatë fushatës së bombardimeve, dhe Vieira de Mellon, diplomatin brazilian
me përvojë në çdo krize lufte që mund të imagjinohej, nga Libani e deri në
Kamboxhë, zyrtarët serbë përpiqeshin ta bindnin se mu këto bomba janë arsye
pse gati një milion shqiptarë të Kosovës gjendeshin refugjatë jashtë
Kosovës. Pasi kishte dëgjuar me kortezi diplomatike, kishte kërkuar të
vizitojë një fshat shqiptar, të bisedonte me popullatën. I thanë që është
rrezik, se do ta vriste UÇK-ja, dhe prapë u dha një teori konspiracioni se
si UÇK-ja do ta fajësonte palën serbe për vrasjen e një funksionari të
OKB-së. Edhe pas disa insistimeve, nuk iu lejua hyrja në një fshat shqiptar.
Sergio, siç do ta njihja më vonë, u largua me protestë nga Kosova, duke
ndërprerë programin e sajuar nga autoritetet serbe dhe duke e përmendur këtë
fakt në konferencën për shtyp në Beograd. Prapë, pa asnjë shenjë grimase që
do të shënonte se çka mendon.
2.
Katër vjet e dy muaj para se të vritej në Bagdad, Sergio kishte arritur
sërish në Kosovë. Të dielën, më 13 qershor, katër xhipa të bardhë të OKB-së
do të hynin në lagjen e Vreshtave në Prishtinë, duke e vendosur UNMIK-un. Ca
ditë më pas, do ta takoja njeriun i cili duhej ta administronte Kosovën. Në
shtëpinë e madhe prishtinase, bëhej vend për zyrë, fjetje, ushqim dhe
mbledhje. Me kaq do të dispononte guvernatori i parë ndërkombëtar i Kosovës,
i cili duhej të vendoste çdo gjë, prej rendit dhe ligjit deri te korenti dhe
uji. Kolegu i tij, në pjesën ushtarake të misionit, gjenerali Jackson,
tashmë kishte mbi 20 mijë ushtarë me armatim të rëndë në dispozicion.
Përvoja e kishte bërë të vetëdijshëm për këtë diskrepancë mes misioneve
ushtarake dhe atyre civile. Madje, as që do të kishte shumë kohë për të
menduar për këtë gjë. Për misionin e tij në Prishtinë ishte njohtuar 48 orë
para nisjes, nga sekretari i përgjithshëm, Kofi Annan, i cili kishte besim
të plotë në njeriun që qe vullnetar për krizat më të rrezikshme në botë. Pas
një dite të gjatë takimesh, me një gotë uiski në dorë, bisedonim për
prioritetet e UNMIK-ut në Kosovë. E tërë vistra e problemeve ishte para tij,
prej atij se cili ligj duhet të sundojë dhe kush duhet ta zbatojë atë ligj,
deri te kush do të menaxhojë me korentin e ujin, tash kur forcat serbe po
largoheshin. Brenda disa ditëve, mbledhjeve intensive, konsultimeve, Sergio
kishte filluar ta vizatonte skemën administrative kosovare. Dhe këtë e bënte
ndërsa fillonte rekrutimi i stafit të OKB-së, fillonin trazirat e pasluftës,
ktheheshin të dëbuarit kosovarë, gjithnjë e më pak kishte rrymë dhe ujë dhe
ndërsa vetë kosovarët kishin filluar të ziheshin se cila është qeveria e
kosovarëve që do të ketë pushtetin.
3.
“Nuk jam evropian”. Ishte përgjigje e thjeshtë kur e pyeta çfarë janë gjasat
që titulli i tij “shef i përkohshëm” i UNMIK-ut të përjashtonte atë “të
përkohshëm”. Në balancin e forcave në OKB, fakti që Sergio ishte brazilian
do ta përjashtonte nga administrimi i Kosovës. Këtë post do ta kishte BE-ja
si donator më i madh, dhe si fuqi e cila “mbulon” politikisht këtë trevë.
Për herë të parë, pas disa javësh shoqërimi, me “Nuk jam evropian”, hetova
një dozë dëshpërimi te njeriu i cili prej kohësh kishte tejkaluar nocionet
gjeografike të identitetit. I lindur në Brazil, kishte hyrë në misionet e
OKB-së qysh si student, dhe kishte vazhduar ndërsa doktoronte në Sorbonne.
Kishte dy vende që do të quante shtëpi: i pari ishte vendi i krizës,
kudoqoftë në botë, e i dyti ishte atje ku do të shkonte kohë pas kohe, në
Paris te bashkëshortja. Njeri plot sharm natyral dhe inteligjencë të
spikatur ishte shquar posaçërisht me ruajtjen e gjakftohtësisë gjatë tërë
kohës, dhe përqëndrimit të plotë në mision, detyrën e marrë nga sekretari i
përgjithshëm. Ditë para largimit, ndërsa kosovarët ende ziheshin me atë se
kush prej tyre do ta qeveriste Kosovën, diplomati brazilian solli me
xhentilesë një copë letre, nënshkruar nga Annani ku thuhej se çdo gjë tashmë
ishte në duart e UNMIK-ut, prej vendimmarrjes ekzekutive e legjislative deri
te prona publike.
4.
Di prej miqve të përbashkët se misionin në Timorin lindor e mori plot gëzim.
Atë që nuk kishte arritur të bënte në Kosovë, si mision kulminant, do ta
bënte në vendin e vogël të porsaçliruar nga kolonializmi indonezian. Në
Timor, vend ku një e treta e popullatës ishte vrarë në gjenocidin mbi 20
-vjeçar, de Mello kishte prirë në natyrën e misioneve të reja të OKB-së,
ndërtim shtetësie. Kulminacioni i punës së tij ishte që këtë vend të
trishtuar ta shpinte në pavarësi. Dhe, nuk më habiti fakti se do ta merrte
ofertën që ta lërë për një kohë punën e Komisionerit për të Drejtat e
Njeriut, me tërë komoditetin e selisë në Gjenevë, që të kryesojë misionin e
OKB-së në Irakun e porsaçliruar nga Sadam Husseini, mision i cili nuk shihej
me shumë simpati fillimisht në Washington. Parmbrëmë, e tërë jeta e tij në
OKB, me listën e gjatë të rreziqeve, ka mundur të përmblidhet me orët e
fundit të jetës së tij. Bomba e cila kishte shkatërruar hotelin ku ishte
selia e përkohshme e Misionit e kishte mbuluar të gjallë Sergio Vieira de
Mellon. Me celular ai lajmëronte se ishte ende gjallë, duke pritur ndihmë.
Njeriu i cili dha 33 vjet jete të tij për të ndihmuar viktimat e luftërave
kalonte orë pas ore, minut, pas minuti, duke pritur ndihmë, madje ndihmë
prej atyre që kishte ardhur t’i ndihmojë.
5.
Një Adios të fundit njeriut që na u gjend pranë, kur kishim nevojë, si edhe
shumë të tjerëve. Adios njeriut që mbajti lart kuptimin e flamurit të
OKB-së, të atillë çfarë e dëshironim dhe e dëshirojmë.

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 1:56:48 PM8/21/03

to

"sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...

> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
news:<bhvs9t$bgo$2...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> > "Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message
news:3f435733$1...@news.sch.gr...
> > > "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
> > > .......................................
> > > > Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
> > Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
> > > > Lithoxoou
> > > > The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
> > > Macedonian organization BMPO
> > > ..........................................................
> > > > The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
> > that Greece liberated
> > > > Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
> > liberate herself. Greeks
> > > > perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
> > > historians write only lies.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Macedonians had always Greek names
> >
> > So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
> > Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
> >
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
>

> 'Ilinden' has nothing to do with Macedonia!!!.

Ilinden is a name of a village in Macedonia.
Are you denying that, dimwit???

WolfWolf
The European

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 1:58:03 PM8/21/03

to

"sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...

> gr_c...@yahoo.com (GreekWolf) wrote in message
news:<f280118e.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
> > MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
> > history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
> > greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Dimitris
>
> YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
> the only one

And who gives a rat's ass???

You only have to look that the FTCOG majority are inhabitants of Nea Tourkia and have
no connection to Macedonia whatsoever.

The only Macedonia, troll, look:

For fair use only.

MACEDONIAN WORLD CONGRESS

Organizational Members Located Throughout the World
Macedonia, United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, England,
Belgium, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Norway, Brazil, Russia,
Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Turkey, Austria and South Africa.

PHONE/FAX 904-676-2466 P.O. BOX 2826, ORMOND BEACH, FLORIDA, U.S.A 32175

Therefore:

The Claims put forward by Greece that the ancient Macedonians were Greeks, that their
native language was Greek, and that Macedonia was a region of Greece are all false.
The historical truth is that Greece was inhabited by Greeks, Macedonia by Macedonians.
The presence of Greek settlements along the coast of Macedonia which Philip II
destroyed anyway did not change Macedonia's ethnic character. Likewise, a very much
stronger and longer Greek presence in Egypt did not transform that African land into a
region of Greece. The ancients knew where Greece ended and where Macedonia began. They
believed that Mount Olympus was in Macedonia, Mount Parnassus in Greece. Thus the
geographer Strabo calls Olympus "the highest mountain in Macedonia". It still is.

Author:

Jacques Bacid, Ph.D. Columbia University, 1983, has taught Slavic languages, Balkan,
and East European history at the University of Oregon. He writes and lectures on these
subjects. Jacques Bacid is a chairperson of the Illyrian Committee. He is an American
Croatian.

For additional information, write to the following:

Illyrian Committee or Macedonian World Congress P.O. Box 1948 P.O. Box 2826 Cathedral
Station Ormond Beach, FL New York, NY 10025 32175-2826 USA USA

The enclosed is not intended to defend the right of the Macedonian people to call
themselves by this name; the civilized world has acknowledges this right. Highlighted
here are some signposts from Macedonia's past and its relations with neighbouring
Greece. This document is written in the form of a court-case presentation to allow
readers to see clearly the absurdity of Greek allegations against the people of
Macedonia.

THE CASE
Greece alleges that:
1) The Macedonians should not be recognized as Macedonians because the Macedonians
have been of Greek nationality since 2000 B.C.

2) Those Macedonians whose language belongs to the Slavic family of languages, must
not call themselves Macedonians because 4000 years ago the Macedonians spoke Greek and
still speak nothing but Greek.

3) Macedonia has no right to call itself by this name because Macedonia has always
been and is today a region of Greece.

The people of Macedonian affirm that:

1) The ancient Macedonians were a distinct European people, conscious and proud of
their nationality, their customs, their language, and their name. The same applies to
their descendants today.

2) The ancient Macedonians regarded the Greeks as neighbours not as kinsmen. The
Greeks treated the Macedonians as foreigners ("barbarians") whose native language was
Macedonian not Greek.

3) Macedonian was never a region of Greece. On the contrary, Greece was often subject
to Macedonia. In 1913, Greece and her Balkan allies partitioned Macedonia, and if
today a portion of Macedonian belongs to Greece, it is by virtue of an illegal
partition of the whole and occupation of a part of Macedonia.

These assertions will be shown to be true in the eyes of history.

MACEDONIANS AND GREEKS THROUGH THE AGES
Throughout antiquity, the Chasia and Kamvounia mountains, Mount Olympus, and the vale
of Tempe separated Macedonia from Greece. On the north, Macedonia extended as far as
the Vardar watershed and along the Struma and Mesta valleys, past the city of
Blagoevgrad to the sources of the Bistrica River in the Rila Mountain in today's
Bulgaria. Macedonia covered a land area of c. 26,000 square miles.
In the course of the second pre-Christian millennium, the ancient Greeks descended in
several migratory waves as goatherds and shepherds from the interior of the Balkans
into Greece. Some passed through the Morava-Vardar Valley and across the plain of
Thessaly on their way south, while others went south through Epirus. More recent
scholars point to Asia minor as the original Greek homeland.

There is no evidence that prehistoric Macedonia was ever occupied by Greeks.

The Bronze Age Mycenaean Greek civilization, names so after the city of Mycenae on the
Peloponnesus, thrived from c. 1400 to 1100 B.C. in mainly Greece and on the Aegean
islands. Archaeological finds from Macedonia are meagre and sporadic; scholars believe
that ancient Macedonia lay beyond the cultural and ethnic borders of Mycenaean Greece.

The ancient Macedonians claimed kinship with the Illyrians, Thracians, and the
Phrygians, not with the Greeks. In fact, the Brygians of Macedonia were believed to be
the European branch of the people who in Asia Minor were known as the Phrygians.

Ancient Macedonia was home to many tribes and nations. Homer did not know the
Macedonians by this name. Of the many Macedonia peoples, Homer only mentions the
Paeones who lives in the heart of Macedonia. In the Trojan War, the Paeones joined the
besieged Trojans, an indication that they were not Greeks. Greek and other historians
frequently mention the Brygians. Their name derives from the Macedonian word 'breg',
"hill/mountain". The Brygians were the "hillsmen" of Macedonia. Another remarkable
people were the Mygdones, who lived in Aegean Macedonia, in Asia Minor, and in Upper
Mesopotamia.

Greek migrants came to Macedonia, Thrace, and Illyria after they had exhausted the
possibilities of settlement in Asia Minor, Italy, France, Spain and Scythia, known
today as Ukraine and Russia. Some famous ancient Greeks went to Macedonia and Thrace
in search of livelihood or adventure. These included Pythagoras, Euripides, Herodotus,
and Aristotle's ancestors. However, the Greeks did not consider Macedonia especially
attractive for permanent settlement. Neither did the Macedonians welcome them as
openheartedly as did the Italians and Scythians. Perhaps Aristotle who left Macedonia
while still a young man would have never gone back had the Macedonia King Philip II
(360-366 B.C.) not hired him to be his son's tutor. In any case, by the middle of the
fourth pre-Christian century, Greek settlers were expelled from Macedonia, their
cities, including Aristotle's native Stagira, razed to the ground by Philip, and
Aristotle died in exile in Greece.

The ancient Macedonians regarded the Greeks as potentially dangerous neighbours, never
as kinsmen. The Greeks unanimously stereotyped the Macedonians as "barbarians" and
treated them in the same bigoted manner in which they treated all non-Greeks.
Herodotus, the Father of History, relates how the Macedonian king Alexander I (498-454
B.C.), a Philhellene, that is, "a friend of the Greeks", and logically a non-Greek,
wanted to take part in the Olympic games. The Greek athletes protested, saying they
would not run with a barbarian. The historian Thucydides, himself half barbarian,
considered the Macedonians as barbarians. Demosthenes, the great Athenians statesman
and orator, spoke of the Macedonia king Philip II as:

"... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any
place that can be named with honours, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it
was never yet possible to buy a decent slave." [Third Phillipic, 31]

The Macedonian "barbarian" defeated Greece at the battle of Chaeronea in August 338
B.C. and appointed himself "Commander of the Greeks." The date is commonly takes as
the end of Greek history and the beginning of the Macedonian era.

[Greece did not regain its independence until 1827 A.D.]

Greeks prospered under the Macedonians, but they prospered in Egypt and West Asia, not
in Greece and not in Macedonia. Though the Macedonians expelled the Greeks from
Macedonia and Thrace, they permitted them to settle throughout their vast empire in
Asia and Africa. Antiochia and Alexandria, to name just the two most important cities
established by Macedonians, grew into great cosmopolitan metropolises where Europeans,
Africans, and Asians traded goods, ideas, and insults conversing mainly in Greek, the
'lingua franca' (common language) of the Macedonian empire.

Other significant historical signposts include:

* Greece was conquered by Macedonia at the battle of Chaeronea in 338 B.C.

* Both Macedonia and Greece were annexed by the Romans to their empire after the
battle of Pydna in 168 B.C.

* Under the Romans, the Greeks continued to prosper in the Levant, Asia Minor, and
Egypt, less so in Greece and not at all in Macedonia. While the Romans did not
establish any province by the name of Greece or Hellas, there were two Macedonia's in
their Empire: 'Macedonia Prima', known today as the Aegean Macedonia, and 'Macedonia
Salutaris', known today as the Vardar and Pirin Macedonias. The two Macedonian
provinces formed the Diocese of Macedonia, to which the Romans attached all of modern
Greece and Albania. Latin was the official language in Roman Macedonia, from 168 B.C.
until the demise of Roman rule at the end of the sixth Christian century.

* After the establishment of Christianity, the Macedonians and Greeks shed their
ethnicity in favour of the new identity as Christian and Roman citizens. Those who
spoke Latin called themselves 'Romani'. Those who spoke Greek, whether they were
Macedonians, Greeks, Armenians, or Arabs, referred to themselves as 'Rhomaioi', a
Greek word for Romans. Those who used Slavic language were known as 'Slovene'.

* In the sixth century, the Paeones, now called Slavs, came back and captured all of
Macedonia from the East Romans, with the exception of a few coastal cities. Macedonia
maintained its independence and resisted attacks by the Armenian and Syrian dynasties
who held power in New Rome (Byzantium) and by the shamanist and nomadic Bulgars who
roamed the steppes of the Dobrudja with their herds. Since the sixth century, the
native Macedonian language had been the dominant speech of the land. It was first
systematized in the middle of the ninth Christian century by SS. Cyril and Methodius,
the apostles of the Slavs who were born in Thessalonica, Solun. The Macedonian
language has functioned as the principal literary, liturgical, and colloquial language
of Macedonia ever since.

* In 867, the first European dynasty assumed power in medieval East Rome. The dynasty
is called Macedonian because the parents of its founder, Basil I, originated from the
Byzantine province of Macedonia. The Macedonian rulers in Byzantium spoke Macedonian
and Greek and thought of themselves as Macedonians and Rhomaioi. In the tenth century,
another dynasty came to power in Macedonia proper and reached its apogee under Tsar
Samuilo at the turn of the millennium.

* In 1014, the Macedonian Roman (Byzantine) Emperor Basil II defeated Tsar Samuilo and
soon annexed Macedonia to his East Roman state. Under the Macedonian rules and their
successors in Byzantium, the Macedonians retained their language, customs, and their
church organization.

* The East Roman Empire was destroyed by the Crusaders in 1204. During the next two
and a half centuries, the Macedonians fought foreign invaders, adventurers, and
bandits who tried to dominate their land. The Ottoman Turks established their rule in
Macedonia in the fifteenth century. The Turks used the name 'Rumelia' for their
possessions in the Balkan Peninsula in the belief that they had once belonged to the
Roman (Byzantine) Empire.

* In 1827, the Christian European powers intervened on behalf of Greek rebels and
forced the Turks to grant them independence. In 1832, the same powers established the
first modern Greek state, chose Prince Otto of Bavaria to be "King of the Hellenes",
and sent him to Athens.

* Macedonian entered this century as a province of the Ottoman Empire, divided among
the Solun, Bitola, and Kosovo vilayets. The region was occupied primarily by
Macedonians. The census in the three vilayets taken by the Ottoman state in 1905 found
3,181,690 inhabitants. Other than to Macedonians, this region was home to many
Albanians, Turks, Romi, Vlachs, Jews, and Greeks.

* After the Ottoman state was weakened by internal troubles, Montenegro, Serbia,
Bulgaria, and Greece attacked their former masters. In this war, called the First
Balkan War, the Turks lost Macedonia. The victorious Balkan kingdoms convened in
Bucharest in August 1913 to divide the spoils. By the Treaty of Bucharest, Macedonian
was partitioned. Greece was awarded Aegean Macedonia and renamed it "Northern Greece";
Bulgaria annexed Pirin Macedonia and abolished the Macedonian name, and Serbia took
Vardar Macedonia and renamed it "Southern Serbia."

* The Republic of Macedonia was created out of the ashes of the Second World War by
Josip Broz Tito, the anti-fascist leader of Yugoslavia, who recognized the Macedonians
as a distinct people with their own nationalist, language, and culture when he created
modern Yugoslavia. Macedonia became a sovereign state by a popular referendum held in
September 1991 when the majority of voters chose independence.

MACEDONIAN AND OTHER LANGUAGES
During the reign of Alexander the Great, the Macedonians spoke their own native
language.
The question of the use of the Macedonian language was raised by Alexander himself
during the trial of Philotas, one of his generals accused of treason. Alexander said
to Philotas:

"The Macedonians are about to pass judgement upon you; I wish to know whether you
their native tongue in addressing them." Thereupon Philotas replied: "Besides the
Macedonians there are many present who, I think, will more easily understand what I
shall say if I use the same language which you have employed, for no other reason, I
suppose, than in order that you speech might be understood by the greater number."
Then said the king: "Do you not see how Philotas loathes even the language of his
fatherland? For he alone disdains to learn it. But let him by all means speak in
whatever way he desires, provided that you remember he holds our customs in as much
abhorrence as our language." [Quintus Curtius Rufus, History of Alexander the Great of
Macedon, VI. ix. 34-36]

The trial of Philotas took place in Asia before a multi-ethnic public, which had
accepted Greek as their common language. Alexander spoke Macedonian with his
conationals, but used Greek in addressing West Asians.

Like Illyrian and Thracian, ancient Macedonian was not recorded in writing. However,
on the basis of about a hundred glosses, Macedonian words noted and explained by Greek
writers, some place-names from Macedonia, and a few names of individuals, most
scholars believe that ancient Macedonian was a separate Indo-European language.
Evidence from phonology indicates that the Macedonian language was distinct from Greek
and closer to the Thracian and Illyrian languages.

Linguistic continuity between the ancient and modern Macedonians is shown by the
survival of Philip's original native name. Philip was known abroad as 'Philippos'. The
native Macedonian and Thracian form of his name was recorded in the name of the
Thracian town which he has conquered and named 'Pulpudeva', "the city of Philip". In
the language of its Slavic citizens it is known today as 'Plovdiv'. The cosmopolitan
form of the city's name is 'Philipopolis', a learned rendering of the native name.
Another example of this continuity involves the ancient capital of Macedonia, Edessa.
The Macedonians knew this city as 'Voden' long before linguists discovered that the
Slavic name was a translation of the original name and that both meant "watertown."
The Greeks, on the other hand, unless they study linguistics, do not know the meaning
of the name.

Since 1913, official Greece has been trying to banish native Macedonian names of
villages, towns, cities, and rivers in Aegean Macedonia. For example, the Macedonians
are being instructed to forget Voden and use the name Edessa and to drop the name
Solun in favour of Thessaloniki. The people whose ancestors have over the millennia
plowed the earth and grazed their sheep and goats in the Bistrica and Vardar valleys
are forced to learn from dead writers a dead language the "proper" names for their
rivers.

The little stream which issues from Mount Olympus and flows into the Aegean Sea by the
town of Katerini is labelled 'Mavroneri', "black water", on maps made by Greek
cartographers. However, the same river appears as "Crna Reka', a native Macedonian
name meaning "black river" on maps made before 1913. Perhaps the village of Nezero on
the southern slopes of Mount Olympus, has not yet been given a Greek name because it
has escaped the attention of Greek linguist purists. The name in fact derives from the
Slavic word for "lake". Of course, when Zeus and his divine company lived on Mount
Olympus, the lake had another name. But, ever since mortal Macedonians have lived
there, the lake has been called 'Ezero', meaning "lake".

SUMMARY
It is common knowledge that the northern boundary of ancient Greece ran from the
modern city of Preveza (a Macedonian name, meaning "ferrytown") or from Korfu to the
Vale of Tempe south of Mount Olympus. In antiquity, Macedonian was a northern
neighbour of Greece, never a province of Greece.
Alexander spoke Macedonian and was proud of his ethnicity. However, the Macedonian
language of his day was not used as a literary idiom. The first native written
language of Macedonia is the idiom called Macedonian or Old Church Slavic.

Though Alexander spoke Greek, loved Homer, and respected his tutor Aristotle, there is
much evidence that he hated and despised the Greeks of his day. He thoroughly
destroyed Thebes. His Asian empire is correctly called Macedonian, not Greek, for he
won it with an army of 35,000 Macedonians and only 7,600 Greeks. The Greeks
distinguished themselves on the side of the Persians. For instance, at the battle of
Issus, Alexander's European army was opposed by a large Asian host which included
about 30,000 Greek mercenaries who fought for the Persians. During his campaign in
Asia, Alexander dismissed the messenger who had brought him news of a war among the
Greeks, saying: "Why should I trouble myself with battles of mice"?

Alexander could not think of himself as a Greek, for his mother was from Epirus, a
land more Illyrian than Hellenic, and his earthly father was a Macedonian whom the
Greeks of his day called "a barbarian". More importantly, Alexander told the Egyptians
that his heavenly parent was their god Ammon. After he conquered Mesopotamia, Persia,
and the Indus Valley, he believed he was a god commanding his Greek subjects to accept
his divinity.

It is possible that the native Macedonian name "Mygdones" was the basis of the name
"Makedones," which then became the collective name for all the different peoples of
Macedonia. It is by the latter form that the various peoples of Macedonia became
universally known. Even if the ancient Greeks did take part in the shaping and
popularizing of this name, this does not give today's Greece the copyright to the name
"Macedonia".

WolfWolf
The European

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 2:22:13 PM8/21/03

to

"Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f44...@news.sch.gr...

> "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
> > Jovanche Asparuh has nothing to do with ilinden. The Tatars in Bulgaria
> do
> > not recognize the seven nationalities living there ,they adopt the
> Grekiki or
> > Ftcogian policy they are uncivilized like you Mr. Alepiloglu.
> > Ilinden
>
>
>

> All I know

You know NOTHING.
You are fired!!

WolfWolf
The European

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 2:26:52 PM8/21/03

to

"rikopal" <rik...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:c6a1f773.03082...@posting.google.com...
> learn something

OK, let's see if you can catch with what every civilized person learns:

Bulgarian: Toj chranese naroda sas slovoto, onzi istinski chljab, kojto ukrepva
sarcata, no v sastoto vreme toj ne zabravjase da chrani i telesno onezi, za koito
vidja, ce imat nuzda ot takava chrana.

Macedonian: Toj go hranese narodot so slovoto, onoj vistinski leb sto gi ukrepuva
srcata, no vo isto vreme toj ne zaboravase da gi hrani i telesno onie sto gledase oti
imaat nuzda ot takva hrana.

The two sentences render the same original, which may be translated:

'He nourished the people with the word, that real bread which fortifies the heart, but
at the same time he did not forget to nourish also with earthly food those who he
realized needed such food'

A literal translation of the Bulgarian: 'He nourished people-the with words-the, that
real bread, which fortifies hearts-the, but in same-the time he not forgot that [he]
nourishes also physically those, about whom [he] saw, that [they] have need of such
food.'

A literal translation of the Macedonian: 'He it nourished people-the with word-the,
that real bread that them fortifies hearts-the, but at [the] same time he not forgot
that [he] them nourishes also physically those that [he] looked/saw that [they] have
need of such food'.

With amusement

WolfWolf
The European

Yannis the Makedonian

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 5:52:03 PM8/21/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
.................................

> > A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please
>
> Here comes the straight comment for you:
> http://www.webpersonal.net/lobonegro/atpc/
> WolfWolf
> The European

Vlaka !!

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...

Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.
The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"
Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV
This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in
Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

Ilinden

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Aug 21, 2003, 7:57:09 PM8/21/03

to

Jovanche how many times I have to tell you bre tikvar.
Plovdiv: The name of the city in Bulgaria is of Thracian origin, and
represents Pulpudava,. The Hellenes later changed the Thracian name as
Philippopolis. The Romans, however, called the settlement Trimontium,
'three hills;.
Ilinden the Macedonian

Ilinden

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 7:51:28 PM8/21/03

to

Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 21, 2003, 9:33:21 PM8/21/03

to

"Yannis the Greek" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f453bce$1...@news.sch.gr...

> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
> .................................
> > > A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please
> >
> > Here comes the straight comment for you:
> > http://www.webpersonal.net/lobonegro/atpc/
> > WolfWolf
> > The European
>
>

> ...Being in command of our people's movement,

Bre pezeveng, you are FIRED!!!

WolfWolf
The European

sgeorgio2003

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Aug 22, 2003, 2:07:21 AM8/22/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bi349f$7v1$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > gr_c...@yahoo.com (GreekWolf) wrote in message
> news:<f280118e.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
> > > MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
> > > history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
> > > greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Dimitris
> >
> > YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
> > the only one
>
> And who gives a rat's ass???
>

You!!!Since you replied!!!Please,just give me the URL of the E-book!!!
It's impossible that FartFart wrote all of the following diarheia!!!He
just did some ctrl-c and some ctrl-v!!!This fart of 120 decibels has
ready answers on his lice-infested PC!!!O,how pervert this
shit-scattering parasite is!!!

[relentless diarheia snipped]

yme...@albanian.com

unread,

Aug 22, 2003, 12:41:43 PM8/22/03

to

Nga Veton Surroi

1.
Duhet të jetë mbresë e fëmijërisë, por çdo herë që përmendet pirateria, e
imagjinoj figurën e Kapitenit Hook, ashtu siç e krijoi Walt Disney në filmin
për Peter Panin. Sytë e tij të mëdhenj e të gjakosur, mustaqet e gjata,
kapela prej komandanti, këmba e ngrënë nga krokodili, dhe natyrisht, simboli
i tij identifikues, çengeli në vend të dorës. Kështu më doli para sysh më i
njohuri prej kusarëve kur dëgjova se tashmë kishte kaluar të gjitha fazat
procedurale Ligji kundër piraterisë në Shqipëri: me fatin e tij të çuditshëm
prej kusari, kapiteni Hook së shpejti do të mund të emetohet në televizionet
e ndryshme të Shqipërisë, vetëm nëse për të i paguhen të drejtat e autorit
distributorëve të filmave të Walt Disneyt. Njëri prej vjedhësve më të
famshëm nuk do të mund të emetohet me vjedhje. Fatin e ngjashëm, po qe se
zbatohet ligji në fjalë, do ta kenë të gjitha karakteret filmike,
posaçërisht ato të prodhimit të ri. E të këtilla, krijime filmike nga më të
rejat, ç’është e vërteta shiheshin në televizione të ndryshme shqiptare,
ndonjëherë edhe paralel me shfaqjen e tyre kohore në kinematë e metropoleve
të ndryshme botërore. Para një muaji, me rastisi të takoj një të huaj në
Shqipëri që nuk kishte arritur ta shihte filmin “Frida” që sapo kishte
filluar të shfaqej në vendin e tij. Në vend të kinemasë, arriti që këtë film
ta shohë në njërin prej TV-ve, mandej të nesërmen në tjetrin, të pasnesërmen
në të tretin...
2.
Kapiteni Hook, në të dy cilësitë e tij, edhe prej hajni e edhe prej
personazhi filmik për të cilin paguhen të drejtat e autorit më duket se
shndërrohet në një metaforë për atë që ndodh në Shqipëri. Pirateria filmike
në Shqipëri kishte prodhuar dy efekte themelore shoqërore, apo kishte qenë
pjesë e dy efekteve themelore shoqërore, si të doni. I pari ishte efekti
modernizues shoqëror: Shqipëria e izoluar prej enverizmit e cila me një sy
shikonte nga televizionet italiane, përnjëherë u vërshua nga prodhimi
bashkëkohor televiziv e filmik. Një popull që ishte kontrolluar nga çfarëdo
që do të prodhonte Kino Studioja, përnjëherë u bombardua me Hollywood,
çfarëdo të mirë a të keqe të ketë pasur ky kryeqytet i filmit. I dyti ishte
natyralizimi i vjedhjes (huazimit të përkohshëm, do të thoshte ndonjë zbutës
fjalësh) i krijimit televiziv a filmik për të bërë televizion Made in
Albania. Ishte, dhe është fare e nënkuptuar deri më sot në Shqipëri, se në
televizion, duke përfshirë edhe atë shtetëror, mund të “huazohen” prodhimet
televizive a filmike për emetim, pa pyetur për leje emetimi, e lëre më
pagese për të. Kjo edhe nuk është aq me çudi ngase në mënyrë analoge, në
shoqërinë shqiptare u natyralizuan format e tjera të vjedhjes: një numër
bukur i madh veturash në Shqipëri janë të vjedhura (apo të shpallura të
vjedhura nga shitësit e tyre italianë e të tjerë, që morën paratë e
sigurimeve), dhe si të këtilla janë blerë nga pronarët e tyre të rinj. Që të
gjithë e kanë pranuar normalitetin e statusit të këtyre veturave si ish -të
vjedhura.
3.
S’do mend se natyralizimi i vjedhjes ka qenë urë për të lidhur diskrepancën
e modernitetit shqiptar: nevojën urgjente për bukë, film dhe Benz me
mungesën e pasurisë për t’i blerë këto. Nëse do gjykuar sipas Ligjit kundër
Piraterisë, kësaj ure që lidh diskrepancën i ka ardhur fundi. Ndoshta si
pjesë e obligimeve të anëtarësisë në Organizatën Botërore të Tregtisë, apo
nga motive të ndërtimit të shtetit të së drejtës, me çfarëdo që të jetë
shtytur, qeveria ka marrë një hap që mund të ketë efekte edhe më të thella
se sa ndalesa e përkohshme, dhe jo aq e popullarizuar, e transmetimit të
filmave të rinj e të mirë. Efekti imediat, gjithsesi, është vënie në rend të
skenës kaotike televizive në Shqipëri. Në lëvizjen e lavjerrësit mediatik
shqiptar, është kaluar prej ekzistimit të RTSH-së si televizion i dedikuar
Enver Hoxhës e familjes së tij deri te ekzistimi i televizioneve të
mëhallave të fshatrave. Ndërsa gjendja monotelevizive ishte diktatoriale,
kjo e shumëllojshmërisë së parregulluar është pengesë për të ndërtuar
cilësi. Shumëllojshmëria e televizioneve, jashtë afarizmit të një ekonomie
tregu, e me transmetim produktesh piraterie, thjesht pengon formimin e
përgjegjësisë ekonomike të TV-së, afarizmit, dhe në fund përgjegjësisë
profesionale. Shqipëria, kështu, ka kaluar dy fazat e ndërtimit të TV-së si
mjet presioni. Në të parin, ishte Partia e cila ushtronte dhunën mediatike
nëpërmjet TV-së. Në të dytin, grupet ekonomike do të ndërtonin TV për të
ushtruar presion mediatik që të favorizohen projektet e tyre të tjera
ekonomike (shumëherë të lidhura edhe me politikë). Tash hyhet në fazën e
tretë, kur TV-ja duhet të shikohet si ndërmarrje afariste, madje një
ndërmarrje afariste me shumë më tepër investime në të se ç’mund të
paramendohej deri tani. Nga tregu i egër i TV-së, duhet të dalin tri-katër
TV të forta me karakter kombëtar, që do të luftojnë barabarisht në treg të
rregulluar, dhe me përgjegjësi ndaj këtij tregu. E, kjo gjendje,
rrjedhimisht, do të kërkojë prej Televizioneve gara për auditor, pra edhe
politikë redaktuese që i dedikohet auditorit, jo interesave ekonomike të
pronarëve në biznese të tjera, si dhe jo rralë, atyre politike.
4.
Shqipëria ndoshta do të fitojë edhe ca më shumë me rrënimin e figurës dhe
veprës së Kapitenit Hook. Atëherë kur filloi vrulli i transmetimeve private,
Kapiteni Hook hyri si metaforë e të konsideruarit të hajnisë si gjendje e
rregullt shoqërore. Tash, kur sillet Ligji i ri, ndoshta Kapiteni ngazëllyes
do të simbolizojë të kundërtën, si në pirateri filmike, ashtu edhe
tjetërkund.

yme...@albanian.com

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Aug 22, 2003, 12:43:24 PM8/22/03

to

Alma Mile
Ndoshta ajo nuk ishte aq e bukur sa Helena e Trojës, edhe pse mbante të
njëjtin emër, por një gjë është e qartë, ajo ndërtoi kishën më të bukur të
veriut. Në bregun e majtë të Bunës, atje ku kaltërsia e lumit rreh bregun,
duken gërmadhat e një kishe, që pushojnë nën hijet e pemëve të larta. Nuk
dihet në lumi ishte i dashuruar, a xheloz ndaj bukurisë së kishës, që
përpiqej të përpinte sa më shumë prej mureve të saj. Pasi kanë kaluar qindra
shekuj nga ndërtimi i saj, nga Helena, e bija e perandorit latin të
Bizantit, Balduini II, prej kishës së quajtur Shna Prena, apo siç njihet
ndryshe kisha e Shirgjit, ka mbijetuar vetëm një faqe muri, e cila ka mbetur
të dëshmojë, jo vetëm për ekzistencën e saj, gërshetimin mes kulturave të
popujve të ndryshëm, por edhe për legjendën dhe varret e mbretërve të parë
sllavë, që ruan në themele. Prej disa vitesh, Instituti i Monumenteve të
Kulturës, duke u nisur nga vlerat e kishës, e cila daton e shekullit të XIV,
dhe shkatërrimi i vazhdueshëm, ka kërkuar fonde për ndërtimin e një
argjinature mbrojtëse, gjë që u bë e mundur vetëm këtë vit. Pak ditë më
parë, ka përfunduar ndërtimi i një argjinature në pjesën perëndimore të
Kishës së Shirgjit. Sipas drejtorit të Institutit të Monumenteve, Gazmend
Mukës, kjo ndërhyrje e domosdoshme, bashkë me atë të bërë një vit më parë,
kanë shpëtuar përfundimisht nga shkatërrimi, këtë objekt të rrallë në
spektrin e monumenteve të kulturës shqiptare. Krahas shenjave të një
arkitekture të veçantë, apo të lashtësisë, vlerat e saj rriten më tepër,
ndërsa udhëtarë dhe studiues të huaj, që kanë kaluar pranë rrënojave, e kanë
cilësuar si kishën më të bukur të Shqipërisë së veriut. Sipas drejtorit
Muka, përpjekjet për të realizuar këtë ndërhyrje, kanë nisur që në kohën,
kur në krye të Institutit të Monumenteve, ishte Artan Shkreli. Megjithë
këmbënguljen e tij dhe vizitën e vet ministres së atëhershme të Kulturës,
Esmeralda Uruçit, buzë Bunës, për të parë gjëndjen e ndërtesës së rrënuar,
nuk u arrit asgjë. Ka qenë një mrekulli, që një vit më parë, gjatë
përmbytjeve të mëdha ë zonat veriore, mbetën të pacënuara reliket e fundit
të kishës së Shirgjit. Më pas, do të ishte ministrja pasardhëse, Arta Dade,
e cila do t’i kushtonte vëmendjen e duhur, këtij monumenti dhe të çelte një
fond të veçantë për shpëtimin e tij. “Eshtë e rëndësishme të përmend edhe
punën e bërë nga firma ndërtuese “Blinishta”, e cila mori përsipër një punë
shumë të vështirë, ndërtimin e një argjinature, në një thellësi prej 7-8
metrash, nën ujërat e ftohtë të Bunës”. Argjinatura, e cila rrethon nga dy
anë rrënojat e kishës, ka kushtuar rreth 7 milionë lekë të reja. “Mendohet
që kjo kishë të ketë një paraekzistencë arkitekturore, që daton në shekullin
e 6 të erës sonë, por ne ende nuk kemi argumente. Qëllimi ynë, është që
tashmë që punimet për të shmangur shkatërrimin e saj janë evituar, të
fillojmë një ekspeditë gërmimesh arkeologjike, të cilat mendojmë se do të na
zbulojnë fakte të reja për kishën”, - sqaron drejtori i Institutit të
Monumenteve të Kulturës, Gazmend Muka. Duke qenë se në themelet e kësaj
kishe ndodhen varret e katër mbretërve sllavë, është i mundshëm organizimi i
një ekspedite të përbashkët shqiptaro-malazeze, pasi sipas drejtorit Muka,
vazhdimisht nga pala malazeze, ka pasur interesime kundrejt kësaj kishe të
lashtë. Gjithsesi, e rëndësishme është që në spektrin e monumenteve të
kulturës shqiptare, qëndron e sigurt dhe Kisha e Shirgjit, buzë ujërave të
Bunës.

Historai e dokumentuar
Ndodhet në tokë shqiptare, por thuhet se në themelet e saj, ndodhen varret e
4 mbretërve, të cilët janë paraardhësit e malazezëve. Një gërshetim
kulturash dhe historish, zanafilla e së cilës ende nuk është shumë e qartë.
Prej dokumenteve dhe studiuesve, del se ndërtuesja e kësaj kishe është
Helena, mbretëresha e Serbisë, Dioklesë(Dukle, në afërsi të Podgoricës),
Shqipërisë, Dalmacisë dhe e bregdetit. Ajo ishte bija e perandorit latin të
Bizantit, Balduini II dhe ishte martuar me sunduesin e popullit serb, Stefan
Uroshin I (1275-1321). Pas vdekjes së Uroshit I, të dy djemtë e tij,
Dragutini dhe Milutini, ndanë midis tyre tokat që zotëronin në Serbi, ndërsa
krahinat perëndimore, ia lanë nën sundim mbretëreshës së ve, Helenës.
Mendohet se ajo, dhe më pas të bijtë, të cila kanë lënë mbi mure edhe shumë
mbishkrime latine, kanë qenë ndërtuesit e kishës së Shirgjit.

Paraekzistenca në kohërat e Justinianit
Ndonëse në bazë të dokumentacioneve, ndërtuesja e kishës së Shirgjit, njihet
Helena, e bija e perandorit, mendohet që kjo kishë të ketë ekzistuar shumë
shekuj më parë. Sipas drejtorit të Institutit të Monumenteve të Kulturës,
Gazmend Muka, mendohet që ajo t’i ketë fillesat e saj, që në shekullin e VI,
të erës sonë, që në kohën e Justinianit të Madh. Mendohet që ajo t’i
kushtohej dy martirëve ushtarakë, Serxhit dhe Bakut. Nga studimet e bëra,
vihet re një lidhje mes kishës dhe Kalasë së Rozafës. Por jo vetëm kaq. Ajo
ç’ka është më interesantja, qëndron në faktin, që edhe në Azinë e Vogël,
ndodhet një kishë e tillë, e cila është e lidhur me një kala, që quhet e
Rozafës, ku gjenden edhe relike të dy martirëve. Mendohet që pikërisht aty,
të jenë martirizuar Serxhi dhe Baku. Kjo ekzistencë paralele e monumenteve
të tilla, të së njëjtës periudhë, në dy vende të ndryshme, nuk është
rastësore. Ndoshta kjo lidhet me kultin e dy martirëve, i cili ka qenë shumë
i përhapur në kohën e Justinianit.

yme...@albanian.com

unread,

Aug 22, 2003, 12:47:16 PM8/22/03

to

Migjen Kelmendi

Vdekja e kolosit të gjuhës dhe kulturës shqipe, Gjon Shllakut, vetëm sa ma
forcoi bindjen teme se njerëzit e mëdhej të kësaj gjuhe e kulture zakonisht
kanë vdekë n’heshtje, plotësisht të vetmuem, pa pompë e bujë, pa
komemoracione e prezencë t’autoritetit shtetnor, t’kujtuem e t’përcjelluen
me dhimbjen dhe respektin e atyne pak njerëzve që e kishin aftësinë me e ba
dallimin mes “Salierit” dhe “Mocartit”. Mu kujtue me këte rast vdekja e
Arshi Pipës, Martin Camajt, Anton Pashkut…dhe nuk mujta me i ikë kësaj
analogjie me filmin e Formanit. Këta “mocartat” e gjuhës dhe kulturës
shqipe, që patën fatin e keq me jetue n’kohna “salierash”, megjithate na
lanë nji punë të madhe mbas vedi si dëshmi dhe njikohësisht si mesazh se
jetën ban me e jetue edhe me nderë, tue i mbetë besnik botëkuptimeve e
kategorive etike që kishin përqafue dhe të cilave shpeshhere ia kishin
nënshtrue edhe fatin e vet, me vetëm nji kusht – me i lanë me punue. Puna
dhe vepra e tyne ka qenë pasqyra ku “salierat” e kanë pa tanë tragjedinë e
vet.

E fatkeqësia e “salierave” të gjuhës dhe kulturës shqipe sidoqoftë asht e
madhe. Edhe atyne Zoti jau ka falë nji aftësi, për të cilën e mallkojnë
gjithmonë – aftësinë me e hetue e me e diktue “Mocartin”. A ka nem ma të
madhe për ta. Ata e dijnë, përkundër tanë famës, njohjes që e gëzojnë e
pompës që i përcjellë, se nuk janë ata që edhe e meritojnë ate. Kjo aftësi i
ban mos me qenë t’lumtun, me vuejt n’heshtje, me e ndie prezencën dhe fuqinë
e “Mocartit” çdo çast…kjo ju dhemb, e ndiejnë si gurin n’veshkë. E këtu s’e
kam fjalën për josalierat. Se ata janë t’lumtun, t’gëzuem, t’luluem…jo, jo.
E kam fjalën bash për “salierat” që Zoti ju ka marrë shumëçka, kanjihere
krejt, por jau ka lanë vetëm këte aftësi – me e hetue e njoftë “Mocartin”.
(E dijnë ata mirë se për kend e kam fjalën. E kanë aftësinë me e kuptue kur
flet për ta edhe pa i emnue!)

Ka nji diçka që i bashkon këta emna – Gegnishtja. Qëndrimi parimor ndaj
kësaj gjuhe. Refuzimi i përpjekjeve me e zhdukë prej faqes dheut.
Botëkuptimi që emanon nga shembulli jetësor i tyne asht se çdo gjuhë asht
nji kulturë dhe se humbja e cilësdo gjuhë asht nji humbje jo vetëm për ata
që e kanë folë, për ate gjuhë dhe kulturë, por nji humbje për njerëzimin.

Isha tue mendue për këta njerëz të mëdhej të gjuhës dhe kulturës shqipe, tue
ec rrugëve t’Prishtinës me këto temperatura tropikale, kur e hetova n’rrugë
nji grue, diku pesëdhetëvjeçe, e cila ishte e mbështjellun me shami dhe e
kishte të veshun nji asi mantili myslimanesh. Ishte ba qull në djersë, por
as e hiqte shaminë, e as e çkapërthente mantilin. Se qysh m’u dha me e
krahasue këte aparencë të kësaj gruje me mbrojtësit e standardit arbitrar të
gjuhës shqipe. Po bahen tridhetë e sa vjet që këta njerëz nuk e heqin
shaminë prej kreje e nuk e çkapërthejnë mantilin lingual të vitit 1972,
përkundër tanë gjallnisë dhe lulzimit tropikal të gjuhës shqipe.

Shamija e mantili i kësaj gruje në temperatura tropikale s’asht kurgja
tjetër pos nji keqkuptim i nji konvencioni. Kjo grue e kishte keqkuptue këte
veshje njashtu qysh këta organizatorët e
seminareve-për-gjuhën-dhe-letërsinë-shqipe e kanë keqkuptue konvencionin e
determinuem me 1972. Për tana këto vjet të këtij Seminari, organizatorët e
tij nuk guxen me e vu n’agjendë çashtjen e nji Gjuhe të Ndalueme të kësaj
kulture – Gegnishtes. Për tana këto vjet, këta “saliera” e “josaliera” të
gjuhës dhe kulturës shqipe nuk i heqin shamijat e mantilat lingual,
përkundër tana argumenteve tropikale që po vlojnë rreth e qark tyne, shkaku
i nji keqkuptimi të nji konvencioni.

E nuk janë tanë këta vetëm josaliera, njerëz t’gëzuem e t’luluem, po ka edhe
“saliera” në mesin e tyne, që e kanë aftësinë me e ndie shaminë dhe mantilin
lingual që ja kanë veshë gjuhës shqipe. Por, s’kanë koqe. Mirëpo, për fat
kanë veshkë, dhe guri n’te…që i vret, ju dhemb, ju dhemb, ju dhemb….

yme...@albanian.com

unread,

Aug 22, 2003, 1:02:33 PM8/22/03

to

Mësimi i parë

Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege

Chris Hughes

Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege. Qëllimi i doracakut të gegnishtes dhe jo të
gjuhës letrare egzistuese âsht i dyfishtë - i pari, thjesht për me mësuë
studentë të huej (dhe kryesisht anglishtfolës) gjuhën e pasun bisedimore të
kosovarëve, preshevarëve, shqiptaro-maqedonasve e tjera, me synim qi ata me
mujtë me i kuptuë gegnishtfolësit, dhe me e respektuë të folmen e tyne. Dhe
i dyti qëllim âsht për me treguë kjartë qi âsht plotsisht e mundun me nxânë
gegnishten në mënyrë formale, dhe si gjuhë, dhe jo si forma dialektore,
katûndare qi s’ka kurrgjâ për me i ofruë studentit të huej ose akademikut
shqiptar. Ishalla, k’ejt ata qi janë tue e biseduë të ardhmen e gjuhës
shqipe sot e kësaj dite kanë m’ia kushtuë vëmêndje kontributit mâ të madh qi
gegnishtja, si gjuha e përshkrueme në këtë kurs, mun me i ofruë gjuhës
letrare shqipe.

1. Bisedë (Conversation)

Hysniu: Tung Xhev!

Xhevdeti: Tung shoqi! Qysh je vëlla? A je mirë?

Hysniu: Krejt rahat, shnosh jam. Falemnderit. A je lodhë ti?

Xhevdeti: Nga pak, vëlla. A ka najsen të re?

Hysniu: Jo. Njiherë jo. Hajt pra. Shnet. Mirupafshim!

Xhevdeti: Po, mirupafshim. Shifemi prapë.

Fjalorth (Vocabulary)

All the vocabulary presented in these lessons is listed in an Albanian to
English glossary at the end of the book for ease of reference.

Hysni, Xhevdet (Xhev) Albanian male names

tung (short for tungat, tungjatjeta) hi! hello!

shok/shoqi friend, mate

qysh how

(ti) je you are (familiar form)

vëlla                                           brother/mate

mirë                                            good, fine,okay

krejt                                           completely,entirely

rahat                                           fine

shëndosh (pronounced: shnosh)                   healthy, in good health

falemnderit                                     thank you

a                                               (question marker)

a je lodhë ti?                                   are you okay?

nga pak a little, a bit

ka                                               there is

najsen                                           anything,something

të re new

jo                                               no

njiherë                                          at the moment, right now

hajt pra                                         ok ay then

pra then

shëndet (pronounced: shnet) (good) health

mirupafshim goodbye

po yes

shifemi we’ll see each other

prapë again

2. Sqarime (Explanations)

a) The standard Albanian word for ‘hello’, tungjatjeta, literally
translating as ‘may your life be lengthened’, is regularly abbreviated in
conversation to either tungat or the more colloquial tung, as in the
conversation above.

b) To address a close friend in a similar way to how one might say ‘mate’ in
English, Albanians tend to use the word shok (literally ‘friend, comrade’)
or the word vëlla, which literally means ‘brother’, although it is more
often than not simply used to refer to a close friend.

c) Kosovar and Macedonian Albanians particularly use a myriad of expressions
for saying ‘how are you?’ or ‘how’s it going?’ As well as the literal qysh
je?, a popular expression is a je lodhë?, literally meaning ‘are you
tired?’, two variations on which are: a je mërzitë? (literally ‘are you
upset?’) and a po plakesh? (literally ‘are you getting old?) The standard
response to all three is nga pak, i.e. ‘a little’, whether one is
tired/upset/getting old, or not!

d) The word shëndet literally means ‘health’, but it is used as an
expression on its own to mean either ‘(I wish you) good health’, or
‘cheers’, when about to have a drink.

e) Just as the Albanian word for ‘hello’ (tungjatjeta) is actually made up
of a number of words sandwiched together, the word for ‘goodbye’
(mirupafshim) is also made up of several words, literally meaning ‘may we
see each other in good times’.

3. Gramatikë (Grammar)

a) The verbs ‘to be’: me qenë, me konë and ‘to have’: me pasë

Although there is a pattern to most verbs in Albanian, the verbs ‘to be’ and
‘to have’, as in many other languages, are irregular, and their present
tense forms in Geg Albanian are given below. A point to note is that, also
as in many other languages, Albanian does not normally need to use subject
pronouns (‘I, you, he, we etc.’), as verbs have specific endings to mark
which person is doing the action/in the state concerned. The present tense
forms of jam and kam are as follows:

jam/jem/jom I am
kam/kem/kom I have

je you are
ke/ki you have

âsht/â he/she/it is
ka he/she/it has

jemi/jena we are
kemi/kena we have

jeni you are
keni/kini you have

janë they are
kanë they have

Geg Albanian pronunciation tends to differ from region to region, and the
forms jam and kam above can be pronounced in the three possible ways shown.
Jemi and jena and kemi and kena are virtually interchangeable alternatives,
although the jena and kena forms tend to be used in less formal registers.

b) Expressing ‘you’ in Geg Albanian

Albanian has two forms for the English ‘you’. Ti, used in the conversation
above, is a familiar form, used to address family, friends, subordinates
etc, and its form in the present tense of the verb ‘to be’ is (ti) je. Ju
and the verb form jeni are used to address more than one ‘you’, regardless
of how friendly or not the speaker may be with those people, OR as a polite
form used when addressing strangers, superiors or anyone to whom the speaker
wishes to show respect. A note of caution, however - in practice, Albanians
will quite freely swap between the two, often in the same sentence, and even
the closest of friends can find themselves being addressed as ju one minute,
and ti the next.

c) ‘There is, there are’

The word ka, used in the conversation above, literally means ‘he, she, it
has’, but it is also the translation of the English ‘there is’ or ‘there
are’, as in a ka najsen të re?, ‘is there any news?’ The plural verb form
kanë can also be used to express the equivalent of ‘there are’.

d) Expressing a question

Questions in Albanian can either be formed by changing one’s intonation, as
in English, or by prefixing the sentence with the question marker a, hence a
je mirë?, ‘are you okay?’ versus je mirë, ‘you are okay’, and a je lodhë?,
literally ‘are you tired?’, as opposed to je lodhë, ‘you are tired’.

4. Ushtrime (Practise)

a) How would you say, ‘hello! How are you?’

b) Reply that you are fine, and ask ‘how are you?’ using a different
expression.

c) Ask whether there is any news.

d) Reply that, just at the minute, there’s nothing new.

e) End the conversation by saying ‘goodbye, we’ll see each other again’.

f) Translate into English:

Jena mirë, falemnderit.

A jeni rahat, shëndosh?

Xhevdeti âsht mirë njiherë.

Po, jem lodhë nga pak.

5. Zakone dhe histori (Customs and history)

a) A point to remember when face to face with an Albanian is that Albanians
shake their heads to indicate ‘yes’, and nod their heads for ‘no’!

b) Geg Albanian is the national dialect of the UN-administered province of
Kosovo, the northern and western regions of Macedonia, bordering on Kosovo
and eastern Albania, Montenegro, northern Albania as far south as the
Shkumbin river (including Tirana and Pogradec) and most of the Albanian
diaspora in Europe and the USA.
Geg is characterised by nasal vowels, monosyllabic words, little
standardisation and a large number of words of Turkish origin, mainly absent
from the Tosk and Arbëresh dialects of southern Albania, Greece and parts of
Italy. The first recorded sentence ever found in Albanian, dating from a
1462 translation of the Latin baptism service, was in Geg, and Geg formed
the basis of the original standard Albanian language in the 1920s. A
standardised spelling for written Geg Albanian was also established at
Pristina University in 1964, although it has never been widely applied.

c) All ethnic Albanians, wherever they live, and whatever their official
statehood, consider the Albanian National Anthem, Himni i Flamurit (‘The
Hymn of the Flag’), to be their own. The Himni i Flamurit, written by
Aleksandër “Asdren” Drenova in the late 19th century, was adopted as the
national anthem of independent Albania in November 1912, but is now sung at
all solemn occasions by ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia especially,
as a further affirmation of their separate identity.

d) The Albanian national flag, consisting of the double-headed black eagle
(shqiponja or shkaba dykrenore) on a red background, derives from the banner
of the Albanian national hero, Gjergj Kastrioti-Skënderbeu, known in English
as Skanderbeg, who held the invading Ottomans at bay from the northern
Albanian mountains in the first half of the fifteenth century, until his
death in 1468.

WolfWolf

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Aug 22, 2003, 11:35:16 AM8/22/03

to

"sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
news:<bi349f$7v1$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> > "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > > gr_c...@yahoo.com (GreekWolf) wrote in message
> > news:<f280118e.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
> > > > MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
> > > > history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
> > > > greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Dimitris
> > >
> > > YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
> > > the only one
> >
> > And who gives a rat's ass???
> >
>
> You!!!

Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.

As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.

WolfWolf
The European

Yannis the Makedonian

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Aug 23, 2003, 4:04:23 AM8/23/03

to

"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...

> Jovanche how many times I have to tell you bre tikvar.
> Plovdiv: The name of the city in Bulgaria is of Thracian origin, and
> represents Pulpudava,. The Hellenes later changed the Thracian name as
> Philippopolis. The Romans, however, called the settlement Trimontium,
> 'three hills;.

> Ilinden the SlavoSkopian

Ata girl !!
The Hellenes !! That is the Macedonians !!
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

Grigor Gatchev

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Aug 23, 2003, 12:03:27 PM8/23/03

to

All this is very interesting, but could you, please, just post a link
to some useful Web site instead of spamming soc.culture.bulgaria? All
here will be grateful to you, and the attitude towards your posts will
be better.

Thank you,

Grigor Gatchev

<yme...@albanian.com> wrote in message news:<BB6C1949.656%yme...@albanian.com>...

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 23, 2003, 1:48:26 PM8/23/03

to

"Yannis the Turk" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message news:3f47...@news.sch.gr...

> "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
> > Jovanche how many times I have to tell you bre tikvar.
> > Plovdiv: The name of the city in Bulgaria is of Thracian origin, and
> > represents Pulpudava,. The Hellenes later changed the Thracian name as
> > Philippopolis. The Romans, however, called the settlement Trimontium,
> > 'three hills;.
> > Ilinden the SlavoSkopian
>
>

> The Hellenes !! That is not the Macedonians !!

Jovanche, you are FIRED!!

WolfWolf
The European

yme...@albanian.com

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Aug 24, 2003, 7:19:24 AM8/24/03

to

U ARE RIGHT !!!! BUT WHY U ARE POSTING TO SOC.CULTURE.ALBANIAN ?
THANKS ,
YMERM67

yme...@albanian.com

unread,

Aug 24, 2003, 7:39:35 AM8/24/03

to

Është vrarë pabesisht teksa po u jepte policëve dhalltë për të pirë dhe
kastraveca të freskëta për t'i qerasur. Sepse policët kanë shkuar jo me
uniforma policie, por të veshur civilë dhe janë paraqitur si specialistë të
organizatës MADA që gjoja kishin dalë për të dhënë ndihma për fermerët dhe
për të grumbulluar boronicat e fshatarëve.

Është vrarë në sy të njerzve dhe policia nuk ka lejuar mjekun e fshatit për
t'u afruar dhe për t'i dhënë ndihmë

E vërteta rreth ekzekutimit barbar të Sali Rexhmatit nga fshati Tërshenë i
Kukësit

Rexhmata u vra duke u dhënë bukë policëve

Kush janë policët që e ekzekutuan 47 vjeçarin Rexhmati në sy të fëmijëve,
grave e pleqve. Kush e pengoi doktorin që t'i jepte ndihmën mjekësore. Pse
gënjeu ministria e rendit rreth vrasjes së tij. Pse policia iu paraqit
Rexhmatit me roba civile dhe sikur ishin tregtarë bimësh medicinale

Rexhep SHAHU

Policia e shtetit shqiptar shënoi edhe një vrasje makabre të një qytetari
shqiptar në veri të vendit, në Kukës, në fshatin Tërshenë të komunës Bicaj.

Kjo vrasje e një shqiptari nga policia shqiptare është bërë për llogari të
shtetit maqedonas.

Shtetasi Sali Rexhmati, 48 vjeç, nga fshati Tërshenë i rrethit Kukës, është
vrarë në oborrin e shtëpisë së tij nga policia e shtetit.

Është vrarë në sy të një grumbulli fëmijësh dhe të disa pleqve e plakave, në
mes të ditës, në orën 15:30.

Është vrarë nga policia ndërkohë që nuk ka bërë asnjë shkëmbim zjari me
policinë siç edhe janë përhapur informatat e policisë.

Është vrarë pabesisht teksa po u jepte policëve dhalltë për të pirë dhe
kastraveca të freskëta për t'i qerasur. Sepse policët kanë shkuar jo me
uniforma policie, por të veshur civilë dhe janë paraqitur si specialistë të
organizatës MADA që gjoja kishin dalë për të dhënë ndihma për fermerët dhe
për të grumbulluar boronicat e fshatarëve.

Është vrarë në sy të njerzve dhe policia nuk ka lejuar mjekun e fshatit për
t'u afruar dhe për t'i dhënë ndihmë. Nën rrethimin policor, pas dy orësh
rrjedhje gjaku, pa asnjë ndihmë a ndërhyrje, Sali Rexhmati, baba i shtatë
fëmijëve ndërron jetë, duke iu drejtuar policëve në grahmat e fundit se
"...ty të njofta, edhe ty..., edhe ty tjetrit ... U njofta të treve...".

***

Pas 100 vjetësh në këtë fshat të Kukësit shënohet vrasja e parë. Dhe kjo
vrasje nga policia. Vrasje për llogari të shtetit maqedonas.

Sali Rexhmati, baba i shtatë fëmijëve, i pa punë, pa përkrahje nga shteti,
niset para katër vjetësh për të shitur dy armë automatike në Maqedoni për të
siguruar bukën e gojës. Në udhë e sipër për Maqedoni bien në pritën e
policisë maqedonase. Aty është bërë shkëmbim zjarri me policinë maqedonase.
Në këtë shkëmbim zjarri ka mbetur i vrarë një polic. Maqedonasit, me
përforcime të shumta dhe me helikopterë kanë mundur të kapin Sali Rexhmatin
dhe dy shqiptarë të tjerë. Dhe pas shumë peripecish, e kanë denuar në
Maqedoni me burgim të përjetshëm. Pas dy vjet burg, me kërkesa dhe ndihma të
ndryshme, autoritetet e shtetit maqedon e kanë liruar dhe përcjellë për në
Shqipëri.

Sali Rexhmati filloi jetën sërish me shumë skamje e varfëri. Gëzonte
respektin dhe simpatinë e gjithë fshatit dhe shumë më gjerë, si njeri
fisnik.

***

Por ja që vjen një ditë dhe policia e shtetit të Shqipërisë shkon dhe e
vret. Pa i bërë asnjë kundërshtim me armë policisë. E vret sepse Sali
Rexhmati na paskësh qenë "...person në kërkim nga maqedonët, shumë i
rrezikshëm, autor i shumë krimeve të rënda...". E vret policia e shtetit të
vet. Për llogari të shtetit maqedon!!!

***

Tre policët që kanë shkuar në oborr të shtëpisë së tij janë paraqitur si
specialistë të organizatës MADA që vepron edhe në Kukës. Ata, me formularë
në duar, duke mashtruar banorët kanë hyrë në fshat dhe në oborrin e Sali
Rexhmatit. Ai i ka pritë shqiptarisht. U ka nxjerrë dhalltë për të pirë. U
ka dhënë kastraveca të njomë. I ka lutur për bukë. Tre policët civilë kanë
bashkëbiseduar me Saliun dhe të tjerë banorë për boronicat që të mund t'i
grumbullojnë në gjithë zonën.

Në këtë moment, njëri nga policët ka hyrë në banjo. Nga atje ka komunikuar
me radio lidhje me policët e tjerë që ishin afruar në mal pranë fshatit. Kur
ky polic ka dalë nga banjoja, menjëherë e ka kaplluar Saliun nga mbrapa.
Janë lëshuar edhe dy policët e tjerë. Janë lemeritur fëmijët e shumtë dhe
gratë e pleqtë që kanë qenë aty. Saliu ka bërë përpjekje për t'u ikur nga
duart policëve, pasi ai ishte i fuqishëm. Atëhere janë derdhur plumbat mbi
trupin e tij. Ai ka rrëshqitur disa metra ashtu duke kulluar gjak. Kanë
mbërritur policët e tjerë. Është rrethuar vendi. Banorët kanë njoftuar
mjekun e fshatit të vinte, pasi Saliu ishte ende gjallë. Mjeku ka ardhë, por
policët nuk e kanë lejuar të afrohej tek i plagosuri që kullonte gjak dhe që
pas dy orësh ashtu nën torturat e dhimbjeve të plagëve, vdes...

Krimi u bë. U bë në sy të fëmijëve të vegjël dhe të grave e pleqve. Ata
fëmijë dëshmitarë, vështirë të shërohën gjatë gjithë jetës së tyre nga ky
tmerr. Vështirë të pranojnë absurdin se si policët vrasin qytetarin në oborr
të tij. Se si policët nuk e marrin në krah të plagosurin për ta dërguar në
spital. Se si policët nuk e venë në helikopter të plagosurin dhe ta dërgonin
në spital, pasi helikopterin aty e kanë patur, se me helikopter kanë shkuar
policët në afërsi të fshatit, sepse është fshati shumë i thellë dhe i thyer.
Vështirë që këta fëmijë të harrojnë se si policia nuk e lejoi mjekun të
shkonte për të shpëtuar të plagosurin prej plumbave të policisë. Vështirë të
besojnë më këta fëmijë se policia nuk është për të vrarë, por është për të
mbrojtur dhe siguruar jetën e njerëzve. Vështirë të besojnë këta dëshmitarë
më në polici dhe në shtet. Përderisa shteti i vret shtetasit e vet.
Përderisa dhunon dhe nuk respekton të plagosurin. Përderisa nuk i jep ndihmë
të plagosurit, por e sheh tek vdes dhe pengon edhe të tjerët t'i japin
ndihmë.

***

Sali Rexhmati 48 vjeçar, baba i shtatë fëmijëve u vra nga policia, nga
shteti. U shënua vrasja e parë pas 100 vjetësh në këtë fshat. Por tani nuk
dihet... Sepse fëmijët dhe të afërmit e Sali Rexhmatit të vrarë i panë
vrasësit, i njohën ata. Dhe vrasësit e Saliut nuk ishin as serbë, as
maqedonas, as nazistë gjermanë a fashistë italianë. Por ishin policë
shqiptarë...

Ndoshta urdhëruesit e kësaj vrasjeje makabre kanë dashur të mbjellin vrasjet
në këtë fshat. Të mbjellin vrasjet në Kukës. Të vazhdojnë vrasjet në veri.
Se në veri ka kanun, ka gjakmarrje.

***

Fshati Tërshenë ka reaguar. Kryepleqësia ka reaguar. Kryetari i komunës ka
reaguar. Është dërguar një reagim deri tek presidenti i republikës Alfred
Moisiu, tek Avokati i Populli, tek Prokuroria e Përgjithshme, tek Komiteti i
Helsinkit, tek organizmat ndërkombëtare që monitorojnë Shqipërinë...

Opinioni në Kukës është shokuar. Kush e urdhëron shtetin të vrasë shtetasit
e vet. Kush do të mbrojë shtetasin kur e vret policia!? Kush do ta ndihmojë
shtetasin kur nuk e ndihmon policia. Dhe aq më keq që pengon edhe të tjerët
për të ndihmuar shtetasit?

Pse duhej të vritej Sali Rexhmati. A nuk kishte një vend në burg për të,
nëse ai duhej të bënte burg? A nuk kishte një copë bukë dhe një pjatë supë
për të në burg? Po të kishte qenë aq kriminel sa nuk guxon ta thotë as vetë
policia, aq shumë i kërkuar, pse e kanë lënë të lirë deri atë ditë policia
disa vjet. Ai ka jetuar jetën i lirë si gjithë njerëzit e tjerë. Pse s'e
ndaloi policia kur ai nuk është fshehur kurrë. Ai endej për punët e tij kudo
nëpër Kukës, Tiranë, Kosovë.

Policia e vret. Kush do ta mbrojë qytetarin shqiptar...

http://www.gazetatema.net

Anri Erinin

unread,

Aug 24, 2003, 12:04:13 PM8/24/03

to

Italy's sexual slave trade

Many prostitutes in Italy come from Albania
In the first of two special reports, the BBC's Brian Barron investigates
Italy's clandestine trade in sexual slaves and the Albanian criminals
behind the business.

It is estimated that there could be more than 40,000 foreign prostitutes
on the streets of Italy - and the numbers are increasing.

The streetwalkers venture out every night after 10, on the edge of big
cities like Rome.

Each trip was awful but that was my choice. If I returned to Albania I
was dead.

Prostitute
In the Eor district, they are Albanian or from other former communist
countries.

Most are controlled by Albanian mafia gangsters. A handful have
travelled to Italy through their own efforts.

One streetwalker whose identity must be kept secret recalls her
particular journey.

"I came by boat," she says.

"I was smuggled in. I had tried four times. It was a horrible trip."

"It was winter, cold and raining. It was a terrible risk. I saw dead
people with my own eyes."

"Each trip was awful but that was my choice. If I returned to Albania I
was dead."

"Dead or alive - this was my only choice."

Tarantelli: Women are held in slavery
The former Italian MP, Carol Bebbe Tarantelli, says that the women are
slaves.

"They are brought here," she says.

"Their passports are destroyed often, usually as a matter of fact they
are tortured to break their wills."

"They're moved around from place to place so they don't know where they
are. They don't speak the language."

"They're terrified and they can't escape. They're held in slavery."

Poverty

For many of the girls, the journey began in their Albanian homeland.

In Durres, most people are out of work, surviving on remittances from
relatives abroad, like the girls on the streets of Italy.

In its poverty and human desperation it is typical of countless Albanian
communities.

Once Albania was an all-powerful communist police state. It is now a
country beyond the rule of law.

The police chief of Durres, Colonel Albert Pilo, is having a difficult
time stamping out the smuggling of young girls.

Durres: Lawlessness and poverty prevail
"We have had some success against traffickers in prostitutes," he says.

"We've arrested at least three. But a big problem is what to do with the
girls caught up in the system, especially if they come from outside
Albania."

"The fact is we do not have any organisation for helping them."

"At times we've had to keep the girls in prison because there's nowhere
for them to go."

Dramatic pictures, taken two years ago, show one of the speedboats of
the Albanian mafia being intercepted by Italian security forces.

An Albanian mafia speedboat with its human cargo heads for Italy
It was trying to land a batch of illegal immigrants on Italy's Adriatic
coast.

Boxes of drugs were thrown overboard as the gangsters, travelling at 60
miles an hour, evaded the helicopters and ships trying to encircle them.

On the coast at Lecce, the Italian Justice Ministry, working with a
Catholic charity, has launched another kind of assault on the Albanian
mafia.

In one camp for illegal immigrants, Father Cesari helps run a witness
protection programme for former prostitutes from Albania and Eastern Europe.

Hope for some of the women in the witness protection programme
"The choice of denouncing their pimps is an act of responsibility," he says.

"It's not an easy decision to make. So these girls must have the courage
to do it.

"To cut all ties with the past. By pointing the finger at those who
abuse them there is the chance that some of the guilty will be brought
to justice."

Eighty girls have collaborated. They have been rewarded with the right
to remain in Italy and, when necessary, new identities.

However, 500 declined because they were afraid of the godfathers.

yme...@albanian.com wrote:

--
Message-ID: <20030823172314...@mb-m26.aol.com>
If Sobig is really a spamming virus, we really don't need to know
who wrote it, we just need to know who is spamming with it.
(I'm sure they will be happy tell who wrote it during the 'interview'
phase...)

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 2:12:26 AM8/25/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bi5onf$kn7$4...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
> news:<bi349f$7v1$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> > > "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > > > gr_c...@yahoo.com (GreekWolf) wrote in message
> news:<f280118e.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > > Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
> > > > > MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
> > > > > history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
> > > > > greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Dimitris
> > > >
> > > > YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
> > > > the only one
> > >
> > > And who gives a rat's ass???
> > >
> >
> > You!!!
>
> Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
> reply.
>
> As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.

What statements baby?The whole story about me baby is that I asked Ili
something very basic,he didn't answer and in the end YOU answered
(thanks anyway).What's next baby is that Silly keeps posting lectures
of crap&bush-shit
which I easilly tear down.Remember his latest shit about the
Pythagorian theorem?This troll thought that if he proves that it
wasn't discovered by the ancient Greeks,he will thus debunk the
prestige of ancient Greeks.What a looser!

>
> WolfWolf
> The European

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 4:15:30 AM8/25/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bi349b$7v1$8...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

In the countryside all over Macedonia there are also some
dog-shits.What does this have to do with the history of Macedonia?

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 4:25:46 AM8/25/03

to

Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...

> Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> Ilinden
>

MY ?&$"ง)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?I will write a poem for you pretty soon.Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?I DARE YOU TO ANSWER DEAR ILINDENOVA SO FAR
ONLY YOUR PIMP DOES,YOU JUST SHIT AND RUN,SHIT AND RUN.I *DARE* YOU
PROUD 'MACEDONIAN',IT DOESN'T MATTER IF PIGPIG YOUR PIMP TAKES PART AS
WELL,BUT I ***DARE*** *******YOU******** TO ANSWER JUST ONE TIME!!!

YOU CHICKENOID COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anri Erinin

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 5:06:07 AM8/25/03

to

Fuck you, crossposter!

rikopal

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 7:48:25 AM8/25/03

to

Thank you

You just proved how bulgar you are and what everybody knows: Fyromians
have no connections whatsoever with macedonians who speak only the greek
language because they are hellenes.

Now show us and your turkish knowledge to prove that you are a turkobulgar..

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bi34ag$7v1$2...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 7:43:43 AM8/25/03

to

I think you're wrong here, boy. Ask your questions to alt.play.kindergarten.

WolfWolf
The European

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 7:55:51 AM8/25/03

to

More than in Athens with all the stray dogs? Impossible!!!

WolfWolf
The European

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 8:02:34 AM8/25/03

to

"sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...

> Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
> > Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> > Ilinden
> >
>
> MY ?&$"ง)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
> and modern
> Greek are different languages?

Can you possible doubt it???

> Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
> writing bush-shit?

You mean the US President's excrements???

> I will write a poem for you pretty soon.

WOW!!!
Georgosti writing gluposti ..
For everybosti
A big funnosti!!!

> Do you
> believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
> don't pronounce the 'sh'?

"Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian proverb)
Now, can you top it???

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 8:04:17 AM8/25/03

to

He does it all the time, and the result is clear to see.

WolfWolf
The European

"Anri Erinin" <spamme...@rambler.ru> wrote in message
news:bicjia$758e8$1...@ID-115151.news.uni-berlin.de...

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 10:48:57 AM8/25/03

to

Anri Erinin <spamme...@rambler.ru> wrote in message news:<bicjia$758e8$1...@ID-115151.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Fuck you, crossposter!

Me????Crossposter????Since when my chum???Dyu have any proofs????Or
just spreading you mud around???And your arguments,man,very
overwhelming!At least you are succint!And what about your manners?And
the lack of imagination?
You are sucha loosa baby!

Message has been deleted

Ilinden

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 2:48:20 PM8/25/03

to

RIKOHEAD. You just proved how FTCOGIAN you are and what everybody knows: FTCOGIANS OR TURKOGREKI
OR KOZI
have no connections whatsoever with HELLENES who speak only theTURKISH
language because they are TURKS OR TURKOGREKI OR FTCOGIANS FROM THE FTCOG

Ilinden

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 2:52:02 PM8/25/03

to

THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian

sgeorgio2003 wrote:

> Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
> > Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> > Ilinden
> >
>

> MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 5:48:18 PM8/25/03

to

Ilinden, do you think that the Giorgio Armani can read it, let alone understand it???

WolfWolf
The European

"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3F4A5AD2...@sympatico.ca...

THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian

sgeorgio2003 wrote:

> Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
> > Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> > Ilinden
> >
>

> MY ?&$"ง)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 25, 2003, 5:46:06 PM8/25/03

to

Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
doesn't know what he really is.
In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
his origins.

WolfWolf
The European

"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3F4A59F4...@sympatico.ca...

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 3:31:07 AM8/26/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bid5jl$kv8$7...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
> > > Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> > > Ilinden
> > >
> >
> > MY ?&$"ง)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
> > and modern
> > Greek are different languages?
>
> Can you possible doubt it???

Yes,just read my answers.

>
> > Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
> > writing bush-shit?
>
> You mean the US President's excrements???

Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.

>
> > I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
>
> WOW!!!
> Georgosti writing gluposti ..
> For everybosti
> A big funnosti!!!

I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
instead.

>
> > Do you
> > believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
> > don't pronounce the 'sh'?
>
> "Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian proverb)
> Now, can you top it???

Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?And what does this
have to do with what I asked?Read sl...ow...ly....

>
> With amusement

About your amusement read a previous message of mine.

>
> WolfWolf
> The European

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 3:33:34 AM8/26/03

to

Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F4A5AD2...@sympatico.ca>...

> THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
> Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
> The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
> translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
> dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
> omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
> pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
> thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
> Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
> Ilinden the Macedonian
>

Just read what happened in a previous thread.No wonder why I was the
last one to add sth:Ilinden ran away.This time please read.

ilinden wrote:

> I can continue with examples, but it is not necessary, because the above
> is irrefutable evidence

For you of course,being objective is a hard hobby ...

> that Hellenic and Greek are not the same
> language.

a)You compared some words which are different and you concluded that
the two languages are different.So,according to you,since some English
and Greek words are the same then the two languages are the same.Are
they?
b)Give to anyone who speaks English an extract from Shakespear's
writings and ask him what he understands.Even though they were written
a few centuries ago and above all the UK didn't experience any
occupation during that time,he will have some difficulties.Does this
mean that Shakespear wrote in Suahili?

Now take into account:

i)between then (ancient Greece) and now more than 2000 years have
passed
ii)Hellas experienced various occupations which were very fierce,in
other words
not my definition of cultural exchange.
iii)A great deal of words in modern Greek are identical with the
ancient ones
iv)Of them who are not,the difference lies in the endings and has the
form of grammatical RULES,therefore it's not a coincidence
e.g. patir=>pateras , mitir=>mitera
v)We still fully use all the ancient prefixes (pro-,anti-,kata- etc)
vi)We use proverbs and sayings in ancient Greek
vii)Even without any knowledge of ancient Greek at all,it's still
possible for a Greek to understand the meaning of ancient
manuscripts,_AT LEAST_ to recognise the name 'Alexandros' (by the
way,which was his 'Macedonian' name? I think it was 'The Big
Lebowski',at least that -wski sounds good! :) Oh,don't tell me you
don't know his name :( Come on,he was such a great guy,the father of
your nation,and you don't even know his name???)

I'm waiting for your answers,although that despite my being polite
with you you still snob me.

> Just like Macedonian and Greek are not the same.

Of course 'Macedonian' and Greek are not the same.

> English
> House
> Water
> Good morning
> Good day
>
> Greek
> Spiti
> Nero
> ?
> Kalimera
>
> Macedonian
> Kukja
> Voda
> Dobro utro
> Dobar den
>
> Hellenic
> Ikos
> Idor
> ?
> ?

Ilinden,I personally paid much money to learn decent English ...
thanks for your try but these are just too preliminary for me,sorry
...

i)By the way,we still use Ikos extensively.For example we call the
White House (Lefko Iko).A church is also called 'God's Ikos'.A bordel
is also called 'Ikos anohis'.We also use it in expressions e.g.
'kat'ikon',which means delivery.We call the pets 'katikidia'.Dyu see
that 'iki'?It's a grammatical form of 'Ikos'.We call a servant
'ikiakos voithos'.Here's that 'iki' thing again!.I could go on for
pages.
ii)If you want water it's normal to say 'Give me some "nero"'.If you
say 'Give me some "Idor"' everyone (Greek) will understand what you
want,but it's just not common.However,many words have 'Idor' inside
them:
idrefsi,idragogio,idravlikos,idrometro ... Let's don't flood the page
;)
Do you know a strong acid which is the mixture of H2SO4 and HNO3 (in
certain proportions of course,not arbitrarily)?We call it 'basiliko
idor'.If you have anything gold keep it away from it.

> What else do you Turkogreki or Ftcogians or kozi or Athenians need?
> Ilinden the Macedonian

What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?
Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!

Cheers

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 3:52:00 AM8/26/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bid5jn$kv8$8...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> He does it all the time, and the result is clear to see.

It happened inadvertently.I have already expressed my apologies.(and
just when I did,I crossposted again!but I excused myself again,this
WAS the last time).So,I say that there is no way I will crosspost
again.Can you do the same?
And what are you doing in scg?I dare you to answer.

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 6:43:33 AM8/26/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bid5jc$kv8$6...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

Nothing to do with the previous statements.

You grab every possible opportunity to say something bad about
Greece.Thus your posts in scg.

For every second you hate you lose two seconds from your lifetime.
Keep hating baby,it's better for us ...

>
> WolfWolf
> The European

kalin

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 12:16:06 PM8/26/03

to

Isn't there some sort of Macedonian/Greek/Turkish ot whatever group you can
air your grievances, rather than incessantly clog up this group with
irrelevant (in this context anyway) flame war?
Please, just go away.

+Peace to all+

WolfWolf <myn...@email.net> wrote in message

news:bie2e8$7ir$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...

Grigor Gatchev

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 12:05:12 PM8/26/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<bie2e4$7ir$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
> doesn't know what he really is.
> In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
> his origins.
>
> WolfWolf
> The European

_I_ will be infinitely grateful if both you stop crossposting all that
crap to soc.culture.bulgaria.

yme...@albanian.com

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 12:36:53 PM8/26/03

to

Nga Veton Surroi

1.
“El martes ni te cases, ni te embarques”, thotë një fjalë e urtë spanjolle,
që e shpreh bestytninë se të “martën nuk duhet të martohesh e as të nisesh
për në rrugë”. Por, ja që faktikisht këtë të martë, fillon puna e
kryeadministratorit të ri të Kosovës, Harri Holkeri, me kosovarët, në një
listë të gjatë takimesh.
Ky kuriozitet i ditës së tregut në Prishtinë nuk do thotë gjë, më shumë flet
pritja e krijuar në opinionin publik se çka do të sjellë njeriu i cili
administron faktikisht Kosovën. Në reagimet e para të qytetarëve të
regjistruara në TV dëgjohen, të kondensuara, tri lloje mendimesh/ndjenjash .
Shpresa: Le të jetë ky kryeadministratori i fundit në Kosovë. Vërejtja: Të
mos merret me çështje simbolike si këta të tjerët, por të ndërmarrë hapa
faktikë. Rezignimi: As ky nuk do të bëjë gjë sikundër nuk bënë të tjerët.
Ç’është e vërteta, këto fjalë nuk janë vetëm të qytetarëve të përditshmërisë
sonë. Janë të formuluara, në një formë a tjetrën edhe nga disa prej liderëve
politikë, së fundit, së paku nga aspekti i shpresës e vërejtjes edhe nga
kryeparlamentari Daci.
2.
Të tri mendimet ndjenjë, apo ndjenjat mendim, megjithatë kanë të bëjnë më
shumë me reflektim të gjendjes shpirtërore në të cilën gjendet Kosova se sa
ndërlidhje me procesin politik e drejtimin nëpër të cilin po shkon.
Për shembull, shpresa se ky do të jetë kryeadministratori i fundit të
Kosovës reflekton dëshirën që Kosova ta fitojë pavarësinë brenda mandatit të
Holkerit. Apo vërejtja që të mos merret me çështje simbolike është pak a
shumë e adresuar te paraardhësi i Holkerit, Steiner, i cili prekte
sipërfaqësisht ndonjë sferë problematike me pesë, gjashtë apo shtatë pika të
projektit, vetëm për të kaluar , javën tjetër, në një sferë tjetër
problematike që meritonte pesë, gjashtë apo shtatë pika projekti. Dhe
rezignimi, se ky nuk do të bëjë gjë sikurse edhe të tjerët lidhet
drejtpërsëdrejti me faktin se të gjithë ne kemi pritur që brenda këtij afati
prej katër vjetësh të zgjidheshin pak a shumë të gjitha çështjet
fondamentale të shoqërisë sonë, dhe ky vend të funksiononte si një shtet
normal.
3.
Kosova, po të udhëhiqet nga këto tri orientime drejt Holkerit, ka gjasa të
mëdha që kryeadministratorin e ardhshëm ta presë në gjendje edhe më të madhe
zhgënjimi.
Harri Holkeri e fillon misionin e tij de facto sot dhe do të ishte e
natyrshme që fundin e misionit ta lidhë me zgjedhjet parlamentare të vitit
të ardhshëm. Prej sot e deri në zgjedhje parlamentare gjasat që të zgjidhet
çështja e statusit të Kosovës janë fare të vogla.
Brenda kësaj kornize kohore e përmbajtësore, pra të tranzicionit kah
zgjedhjet e vitit 2004, pak a shumë dy gjëra themelore mund të tërheqin
vëmendjen prioritare të kryeadministratorit: bartja e kompetencave te
institucionet kosovare (në ç’masë dhe çfarë shpejtësie) dhe marrëdhëniet
ndëretnike (siguria, kthimi, pjesëmarrja e serbëve në zgjedhje, dialogu me
Beogradin).
Në fund, arrijnë zgjedhjet, Parlamenti e Qeveria të dala nga vota e re, dhe
kryeadministratori i ri.
4.
Procesi politik në Kosovë dhe rreth Kosovës nuk është i pjekur që Holkeri të
jetë kryeadministratori i fundit. Nëse dikujt i shërben si ngushëllim a
dëshpërim shtesë, Kosova ka gjasa të mëdha që edhe pas zgjidhjes së çështjes
së statusit të ketë një formë të rëndësishme të pranisë ndërkombëtare, sipas
të gjitha gjasave të BE-së.
Për ata që duan të shohin se çfarë do të jetë viti i administrimit të
Holkerit, përcillni sinjalet e javës së parë. Brenda saj kryeadministratori
i ri i Kosovës do të shpjegojë se çka duan të bëjë këtu. Në njëfarë mënyre
edhe pushtetmbajtësit kosovarë do të duhej të shprehnin se çka duan nga ai.
Ajo çka nuk kemi dëgjuar tani, në asnjë rast të ardhjes së
kryeadministratorëve të rinj është se çka ka të përbashkët në atë që duan
kryeadministratori dhe përfaqësuesit kosovarë.
Këta binarë kanë ecur paralelisht, pa u puqur. Dhe, ky ka qenë sinjali i
fortë pse Kosova pret kryeadministrator pas kryeadministratori.

ERIC

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Aug 26, 2003, 12:50:06 PM8/26/03

unread,

Aug 26, 2003, 4:29:31 PM8/26/03

to

Ilinden, Eric Choleric has lost his marbles in the toilet which he's cleaning.

WolfWolf
The European

"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3F4B9777...@sympatico.ca...

ERIC

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Aug 26, 2003, 4:46:51 PM8/26/03

to

FINALLY!!!!!!
We've finally seen pigpig use the 'E' word....yes, in the useless entry
below, old pork chop has used the word 'evidence'. What a treat! He/she is
familiar with the word evidence!
Now, no name, let's revisit some past evasions of yours and again ask for
those examples of physical EVIDENCE (incriptions, architecture, funerary
relics) that the Makedonians of the 5th and 4th century BC spoke a non
Greek related language.
As well, noname, can you cite those Ottoman censi that specifically names
and enumerates the 'macedonian' ethnic group that you constantly spam as
having existed prior to 1913.

> I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you
don't care
> about evidence.
> Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green
cheese ...
>

Always a pleasure
Eric

Ilinden

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Aug 26, 2003, 4:49:46 PM8/26/03

to

WolfWolf , Eric Choleric lost his marbles when he said the word calendar is of a
Ftcogian
( Turkogrekika) origin.
Ilinden

WolfWolf

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Aug 26, 2003, 11:30:50 PM8/26/03

to

"ERIC" <fit...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%GP2b.41596$la.6...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...

> Now, no name, let's revisit some past evasions of yours and again ask for
> those examples of physical EVIDENCE (incriptions, architecture, funerary
> relics) that the Makedonians of the 5th and 4th century BC spoke a non
> Greek related language.

Avec plaisir, monsieur.

From an inscription on a slab of stone found in Dura-Europos, a town founded by
Alexander the Great:

NOS TOJ JE TOJ, SMRDOT
FILOPATRASTES, DIO DO TOJ. TOJ DA NI
MOJ MI DIO NOS D'JE TOJ AL JE SAN
D'ROJ GYNAIKOS.

Translation:
"Your nose, yours, having smelled the pederast, spoke to you. Your nose itself, and
not mine, said to me that it is yours that prefers women."

Explanation:
NOS - "nose"
TOJ - "yours, your" - TOJ, for the literal TVOJ, is dialectally still very much in
use.
JE - auxiliary to DIO (DJAV) to form the past tense
SMRDOT - "having smelled" in modern Macedonian
FILOPATRASTES - "pederast, professional sodomite" - in Greek
DIO - "said, spoke"
DO - "to, at, towards"
TOJ - "you"
TOJ - "your, yours"
DA - "that, but"
NI - "no, not"
MOJ - "mine"
MI - "me, to me"
DIO - "said, spoke".
TOJ - "your, yours"
AL - "but, and, or"
JE - auxiliary to DIO
SAN - "itself, the one, the very one"
D' - "that"
ROJ - "would rather, likes, prefers"
GYNAIKOS -"woman" in Greek

> As well, noname, can you cite those Ottoman censi that specifically names
> and enumerates the 'macedonian' ethnic group that you constantly spam as
> having existed prior to 1913.

Avec encore plus de plaisir.

Giovanni Maria Angiolello (1452-1524), a Venetian historian and traveller who was the
first to visit Istanbul/Constantinople after its fall in 1453, author of the book
"Historia Turchesca: (1300 - 1514)" described the Macedonian people as distinct from
the Greek.

Anri Erinin

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Aug 27, 2003, 1:20:19 AM8/27/03

to

kalin wrote:
> Isn't there some sort of Macedonian/Greek/Turkish ot whatever group you can
> air your grievances, rather than incessantly clog up this group with
> irrelevant (in this context anyway) flame war?
> Please, just go away.

Когато им пращам такива послания, аз махам с.ц.б. от списъка на групите
(не и в случая, защото пиша до теб).

А сега нека се питат какво пише тук, а любопитстващите българи от
югозападната провинция да си направят труда да четат българска кирилица.

Честно казано, не ми пука как се наричат и на какъв език говорят. Но
напоследък в българската преса и ефирните медии се появиха доста
доказателства и свидетелства на препатили за отношението към български
граждани в същата тази югозападна провинция.

Преди около месец, в шоуто на Слави гостува една петричанка, арестувана
и съдена по бързата процедура, защото имала неблагоразумието пътувайки в
рейса към Охрид да говори на български.

Нехорошо!

Anri Erinin

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Aug 27, 2003, 1:22:23 AM8/27/03

to

Българска
Национална
Телевизия

ТВ България

Програма за седмицата
от 25 август до 31 август 2003 година

ПОНЕДЕЛНИК, 25 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Пеят Донка и Тодор Кожухарови – фолклор
15:20 Дунав мост – тв филм /седми, последен епизод /п/
16:15 Формула К – картинг за деца
17:00 Новини
17:10 Оръжията, без които можем – документален филм
17:30 Енциклопедия на билките: Цикория /п/
17:40 Пътят – филм за народната певица Янка Рупкина
18:40 Трето полувреме
19:30 ШАШ – тв шоу на Владо Въргала
20:00 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:20 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:35 Как ще ги стигнем … - тв шоу /гост Тодор Колев/
01:00 Новини
01:10 Мело тв мания

ВТОРНИК, 26 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Татък в равна Добруджа – фолклор
15:20 Човешка комедия: Един мъж и една жена
15:45 Лято в бяло – детски игрален филм
17:00 Новини
17:10 Човек с качества – филм за проф.Владко Мурдаров
17:30 Бриз 2003 – документален филм
18:00 Мело тв мания /п/
18:40 Непознатата България: От Габрово до Титаник
19:10 Фолклор от Сатовча
19:40 Светъл пример – Анто – игрален филм, режисьор Иван Андонов, в
ролите: Велко Кънев, Евстати Стратев, Пепа Николова, Георги Русев, Илка
Зафирова и др.
20:30 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:00 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:15 Петимата от Моби Дик – игрален филм, режисьори: Гриша Островски и
Тодор Стоянов, в ролите: Мая Драгоманска, Мариус Донкин, Сашка
Братанова, Ириней Константинов, Георги Парцалев и др.
00:50 Спорт и лято – екстремни спортове
01:15 Новини

СРЯДА, 27 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:55 Петимата от Моби Дик – игрален филм /п/
16:30 Под небето на България
17:00 Новини
17:10 Ала – бала – тв състезание
17:40 Македоно-Одринска революционна галерия: Генерал Иван Цончев –
генерал на две армии
18:10 Нощем с белите коне – тв филм /четвърта серия/
19:15 Клуб “НЛО” – тв шоу /п/
20:00 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:10 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:25 Тишина – игрален филм, режисьор Димитър Петков, в ролите: Христо
Гърбов, Жорета Николова, Петър Попйорданов, Наум Шопов и др.
00:45 Новини
01:00 Футбол в 35 – обзор на ІІІ кръг от първенството на “А” ПФГ

ЧЕТВЪРТЪК, 28 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Национален календар: 60 години от смъртта на Цар Борис ІІІ
14:55 Фолклорни виртуози
15:25 Тишина – игрален филм /п/
16:45 Векът на България: 1966 година
17:00 Новини
17:10 Някога, някъде… – тв филм
18:10 Очи в очи с животните: Скорпионите
18:20 Енциклопедия на билките: Кедър /ІІ част/ /п/
18:30 Път към Голгота: Отец Рафаил Раев /втора част/
19:00 От дума на дума – фолклор
19:30 Нощем с белите коне – тв филм /пета серия/
20:30 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:10 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:25 За къде пътувате – игрален филм, режисьор Рангел Вълчанов, в
ролите: Стоян Алексиев, Георги Калоянчев, Йосиф Сърчаджиев, Катерина
Евро и др.
01:00 Новини

ПЕТЪК, 29 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Национален календар: 105 години от рождението на художника
Александър Добринов
14:55 Фолклорни бисери
15:10 Очевидните чудеса – документален филм
15:40 Защо: Успехът
16:10 Минута е много – тв състезание
17:00 Новини
17:10 За къде пътувате – игрален филм /п/
18:35 Пей ми песен – фолклор
19:00 Нощем с белите коне – тв филм /шеста, последна серия/
20:00 Новини
20:30 Актуално
20:45 Далекоглед
21:00 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:10 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:40 ШАШ – тв шоу на Влади Въргала /п/
00:10 Полет над нощта – нощен блок

СЪБОТА, 30 август 2003 г.

12:00 Новини
12:20 Златоградски ескизи - фолклор
12:50 Вкусно
13:20 Енциклопедия на билките
13:30 Бон – Бон
14:00 Международен турнир по триатлон – кръг от Европейската купа,
Световна и Европейска квалификация /пряко предаване от езерето “Панчарево”/
16:15 Палавници – тв състезание
17:30 Непозната земя: Круни – Дионисополис – Балчик
18:00 Памет българска: Ранната история на Българската държава
18:50 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:00 Новини
21:30 Вик за помощ – игрален филм, режисьор Никола Рударов, в ролите:
Ивайло Герасков, Елжана Попова, Павел Поппандов, Валерия Тодорова и др.
23:10 Далекоглед
23:15 Джубокс: Любовни квартири
23:40 Каналето – тв шоу
00:30 Клиника на третия: Ехограф
01:00 Новини
01:10 Синьо в синьо – джаз-спектакъл с участието на Мая Новоселска,
Самуел Финци, Антони Дончев и джаз квартет

НЕДЕЛЯ, 31 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:45 Маневри на петия етаж – комедия, режисьор Петър Василев-Милевин, в
ролите: Стефан Данаилов, Велко Кънев, Антон Радичев, Венцислав Кисьов,
Мария Стефанова и др.
16:15 За животните с любов
16:45 Клуб “НЛО” – тв шоу
17:30 Всяка неделя
20:00 Далекоглед
20:05 Футбол: “Литекс” – “Левски”, среща от първенството на “А” ПФГ –
пряко предаване от Ловеч
в паузата: Новини
22:20 Световно първенство по лека атлетика /финали/ - репортаж
00:20 Новини
00:30 Празници на изкуствата “Аполония 2003”: Откриване на фестивала и
концерт-спектакъл на ансамбъл “Пирин”

Anri Erinin

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Aug 27, 2003, 1:25:08 AM8/27/03

to

Сряда, 27.08.03

06:00 Хана и Грейс
06:30 Тъмници и дракони
07:00 Бъдете здрави!
07:30 Кратки новини
07:32 Времето
07:33 Тази сутрин
08:00 bTV Новините
08:10 Блиц
08:30 Кратки новини
08:32 Времето
08:33 Тази сутрин
09:00 bTV Новините
09:04 Хороскопът на Светлана Тилкова
09:05 Тази сутрин
09:28 Времето
09:30 Бон Апети
10:00 Искрено и Лично
11:00 Пътища на любовта
12:00 bTV Новините
12:30 Шоуто на Слави
13:30 "Спящият тигър"
15:30 Виртуални рейнджъри
16:00 Заблудените ангели
16:30 Само за снимка
17:00 Отмъщението
18:00 Женени с деца
18:30 Без думи
19:15 Треска за злато
19:30 bTV Новините
20:15 "Нощите на беглеца"
22:00 bTV Новините
22:30 24
23:30 Само за снимка
00:00 Полтъргайст
01:00 "Спящият тигър"
02:30 Бон Апети
03:00 bTV Новините /п./
03:30 Без думи
03:50 Треска за злато
04:10 Пътища на любовта
05:00 Искрено и лично

WolfWolf wrote:

> "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
>
>>"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
>
> news:<bid5jl$kv8$7...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
>
>>>"sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>>>Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
>>>
>>>>>Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
>>>>>Ilinden
>>>>>
>>>>

>>>>MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient

sgeorgio2003

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Aug 27, 2003, 3:05:54 AM8/27/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<biggbq$fhi$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
> news:<bid5jl$kv8$7...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> > > "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > > > Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > > Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> > > > > Ilinden
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > MY ?&$"ง)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
> > > > and modern
> > > > Greek are different languages?
> > >
> > > Can you possible doubt it???
> >
> > Yes,just read my answers.
>
> I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you don't care
> about evidence.

Oh,darling,take a look at this:

**********************************************************************

ilinden wrote:

Now take into account:

What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?
Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!

Cheers

*******************************************************************

> Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green cheese ...
>

No evidence,no comments.

> >
> > >
> > > > Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
> > > > writing bush-shit?
> > >
> > > You mean the US President's excrements???
> >
> > Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.
>
> From your local zoo???

I dunno.

>
> >
> > >
> > > > I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
> > >
> > > WOW!!!
> > > Georgosti writing gluposti ..
> > > For everybosti
> > > A big funnosti!!!
> >
> > I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
> > instead.
>
> Then you're not very familiar with Macedonian issues.

Really?Then tell me an ancient Macedonian city ending in -ski.
I know Pella,Thessaloniki etc.They don't end in -ski.Were their names
changed
by the ancient Greeks,i.e. they used to be
Pellofski,Thessalonikofski?Were there
any -ofski cities at that time?The only -ski I'm familiar with is the
"Big Lempowski".

>
> >
> > >
> > > > Do you
> > > > believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
> > > > don't pronounce the 'sh'?
> > >
> > > "Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian
> proverb)
> > > Now, can you top it???
> >
> > Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?
>
> You started comparing languages, didn't you???

Really?When?Where?Wasn't Ilinden's message?And what I'm trying to do
is to prove
that you CANNOT compare languages and whoever does this has very
narrow knowledge and broad stupidity.Have a look at the mirror...

>
> > > With amusement
> >
> > About your amusement read a previous message of mine.
>
> All of them were quite amusing ...

You still haven't read it,have you?

>
> WolfWolf
> The European

WolfWolf

unread,

Aug 27, 2003, 12:24:47 PM8/27/03

to

"sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
news:<biggbq$fhi$9...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> > "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > > "WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message
> > news:<bid5jl$kv8$7...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> > > > "sgeorgio2003" <sgeorg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3c8a3b6d.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<3F455B00...@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > > > Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
> > > > > > Ilinden
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > MY ?&$"ง)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
> > > > > and modern
> > > > > Greek are different languages?
> > > >
> > > > Can you possible doubt it???
> > >
> > > Yes,just read my answers.
> >
> > I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you don't care
> > about evidence.
>
>

> ilinden wrote:
>
> > I can continue with examples, but it is not necessary, because the above
> > is irrefutable evidence

Different author, different thread, different context.
Whatever you have to discuss with Ilinden, I think you can deal it directly with him,
don't you agree??

> > Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green cheese ...
> >
>
> No evidence,no comments.

By your logic, it would be the most direct conclusion.

>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
> > > > > writing bush-shit?
> > > >
> > > > You mean the US President's excrements???
> > >
> > > Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.
> >
> > From your local zoo???
>
> I dunno.

So from where else???
From Kalimantang/Borneo????

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
> > > >
> > > > WOW!!!
> > > > Georgosti writing gluposti ..
> > > > For everybosti
> > > > A big funnosti!!!
> > >
> > > I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
> > > instead.
> >
> > Then you're not very familiar with Macedonian issues.
>
> Really?Then tell me an ancient Macedonian city ending in -ski.
> I know Pella,Thessaloniki etc.They don't end in -ski.Were their names
> changed
> by the ancient Greeks,i.e. they used to be
> Pellofski,Thessalonikofski?Were there
> any -ofski cities at that time?The only -ski I'm familiar with is the
> "Big Lempowski".

Below you find a fragment from an inscription on a slab of stone found in

Now, answer two questions:
Why did the writer use - with the exception of two words - a language which is totally
unrelated to ancient Greek?
How come that there are several words with an appaling similitude to modern
Macedonian?

> > > > > Do you
> > > > > believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
> > > > > don't pronounce the 'sh'?
> > > >
> > > > "Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian
> > proverb)
> > > > Now, can you top it???
> > >
> > > Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?
> >
> > You started comparing languages, didn't you???
>
> Really?When?Where?

You wrote above:
"Do you believe that Greek language is inferior ...?"
A clear comparison - made by you.

> Wasn't Ilinden's message?And what I'm trying to do
> is to prove
> that you CANNOT compare languages and whoever does this has very
> narrow knowledge and broad stupidity.Have a look at the mirror...

Have a look at literature.
I would suggest you the book below - a standard work for comparative linguistics.
Historical and Comparative Linguistics
Raimo Anttila
ISBN 90 272 3557 0

>
> >
> > > > With amusement
> > >
> > > About your amusement read a previous message of mine.
> >
> > All of them were quite amusing ...
>
> You still haven't read it,have you?

I have. Did you???

With increasing amusement

WolfWolf
The European

Yannis the Makedonian

unread,

Aug 27, 2003, 12:22:14 PM8/27/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote:
........................................

All above is the definition of bullshits.
It is supposed that two noses are speaking to each other ??

> Avec encore plus de plaisir.
>
> Giovanni Maria Angiolello (1452-1524), a Venetian historian and traveller
who was the
> first to visit Istanbul/Constantinople after its fall in 1453, author of
the book
> "Historia Turchesca: (1300 - 1514)" described the Macedonian people as
distinct from
> the Greek.

> WolfWolf
> The European

If this is true then he referred to the Vlachs.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hdt.+7.9A+1
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 27, 2003, 4:12:00 PM8/27/03

to

Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F4B9777...@sympatico.ca>...

> Eric the Red ,can I get a job at your restaurant?
>

What are you talking about Ily?You work at you uncle's restaurant
since you dropped out school,forgot it?Doesn't he pays you well?Or did
he fire you cause
you broke all the dishes instead of washing them again?Well,I have a
piece of advice for:you can easily find a work in any circus as a
clown!!!
(kihihihihihihihihihihi!!!!)

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 27, 2003, 4:15:11 PM8/27/03

to

"WolfWolf" <myn...@email.net> wrote in message news:<biggc2$fhi$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> Ilinden, Eric Choleric has lost his marbles in the toilet which he's cleaning.
>
> WolfWolf
> The European

You obviously stuck the sewage pipe in your mouth to find out! (kihihihihihi!!!)

sgeorgio2003

unread,

Aug 27, 2003, 4:19:31 PM8/27/03

to

Ilinden <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F4B970C...@sympatico.ca>...

> Georgio Armani, you are discombobulated again.
> Ilinden

This farter crossposted this fart in every possible ng!!!And it contains only
mud!!!Well,you should have known better than be friend with GolfGolf...

"I once saw a baboon in 'SALOON'"
(kihihihihihihihihi!!!!)