Re: Greece and FYROM
Yannis the Macedonian
> OK, this time in serious mood. Why it is important to greeks how
> neighbours call their country? Do you really afraid FYROM will attack
> Greece in manner of Alexander the Great to build Macedonian Empire all
> over Balkans (and probably all over former Alexander's empire, too)?
> That just a name, a word - for all thinking folks. Egypt is still
> called Egypt despite arabians there have little common with ancient
> egyptians. Bulgaria is called Bulgaria, despite ancient bulgars age
> gone with the wind. At least one nation must be allowed to call himself
> like they want. If you want to call some territory in Greece as
> Estland, it is fine by me - and you probably got more tourists from
> Estonia. So by me case is too small to talk about.
> Best,
> Vello
Vello,
If the name is unimportant then it is very easy for the SlavoSkopians to
reject it.
Yes a nation must be allowed to call himself as they want. This is what
Macedonian Greeks did long time ago and we, their ancestors, don't like to
share our name with SlavoSkopians.
Sorry, I don't know Estonian histroy and regional onomastics that well.
But, would ay German allow any non-German people and their state be called
Bavarian? Any Albanian to call any other nation as Toskian? Any Czech to
call a foreign nation as Bohemian? Would you tell us a similar name from
your country?
Some regional names are not that regional!
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
Yannis the Macedonian
liberated part of Macedonia .
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
Joto the FTCOGIANS OR TURKOGREKI ARE UNCIVILIZED PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHY THEY
CHANGED OUR ORIGINAL MACEDONIAN NAMES WHY THEY SUPPRESSED OUR MACEDONIAN
LANGUAGE SINCE 1936. TELL ME WHY BRE DRVO NEDELKANO .
Yannis the Macedonian
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
"Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:om...
If the Greeks or Turkogreki call us the Macedonians Fyromians than we will
call them Ftcogians ( Former Turkish colony of Grekorians ( Greki)
vello wrote:
Sorry, but who are Ftcogians????
Yannis the Macedonian
..........................................
> Of course, but, as I mentioned, same with Egypt and Bulgaria. Often it
> is territory, what keeps the name, despite folks living there are
> changing.
But FYROPM is not Macedonian land. Only a small part of historic Macedonia,
that is Pelagonia, is in FYROPM. The land is Dardania, Peonian Trivallian,
Illyrian .... Macedonian northern border was the line from Lychnidos
(ohrid) to Gevgelja (Idomenai).
> Well, boys, you got extremely rich history - why not feel pride that
> others want to share even a piece of it? It is impossible to steal
> Alexander from you, so there is no need to "protect" him.
> Best,
> Vello
Vello, if SlavoSkopians accept that Alexander and Macedonians were Greeks
this would be the solution of the problem. In contrary they oficially claim
that they are Macedonians and we are not !
vello
Interesting, how much I know slavic people reach Balkans in Byzantine
days only, 1000 years after Alexander. Do they have sources about
slavic population in Balkans 1000 years BC?
vello
Sorry, I don't know such a case for estonia, but there are Karelia in
both Finland and Russia, Luxembourg as state and as region in
Netherlands - what wrong with that? Part of ancient Macedonia is now in
Fyrom, so let them call himself macedonians, why to create problems
from nothing?
Yannis the Macedonian
Well, Macedonia is not like Karelia in Finland and Russia. Neither like
Luxemburg. Macedonia is like Bavaria for Germans, Bretagne for Freanch,
Toskia for Albanians, ....
The part of Macedonia that is now in FYROM is Pelagonia, a name that
belongs to SlavoSkopians. We wouldn have any objection on that name.
We cannot call them Macedonians because we call Macedonians the Greek
inhabitants of Macedonia the last 3000 years. That Greek tribe is famous
and glorious and we cannot share its name with any non Greek people.
Yannis the Macedonian
> > names for some unknown reason were never changed. These same names have
> > been in existence for hundreds of years. And the families that work
> > these farms are the same for hundreds of years.
> > Ilinden the Macedonian
>
> Do you really think ancient macedonian was slavic language?
>
> Best,
> Vello
They are sure Vello. They spend alot of money for researches. They have
some help by other Slavic "scholars", Slovenian and others.
Look at their propaganda sites:
MakNews
RMD
Also look for our answers:
418823
Yannis the Macedonian
Sweet kisses !!
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
د "Ilinden" <ili...@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
> Velo, Mr. Alepiloglu is a Turk both of his parents are Turks and
> Alepiloglu is telling the world that he is Macedonian , he is a nitwit
> like Rechkov another drvo nedelkano from Magarevo.
Yannis the Macedonian
> Dodo wrote:
>
> > Since I have met personally real Macedonians who spoke Macedonian Greek
> > in FYROM how can I see those who speak a Bulgarian dialect as
Macedonians?
> > The minorities in FYROM are: Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, Turks,
> > Gypsies, Greek-Macedonians.
>
> No, that is not true. You can check here:
>
> http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=MK
We know that World call your language Macedonian but look:
http://cf.linguistlist.org/cfdocs/new-website/LL-WorkingDirs/forms/langs/LL
Description.cfm?code=XMK
Isn't an idiocy to call a language Macedonian while is not related to
Macedonian? I mean, what is Macedonian on that language called
Macedonian? What is Macedonian on SlavoSkopians?
> And if you check the same page for Greece, you will see that there are
> no Greek-Macedonians, only Greeks.
> > There is no such thing as: Serb-Macedonians or Turk-Macedonians or
> > German-Macedonians.
> I agree. There are only Macedonians, Slavic people, that lives in
> Republic of Macedonia, and speaking Macedonian language, with minorities
> in Bulgaria, Greece and Albania (and they are neither Serbs and nor
> Bulgarians).
Macedonians were always Greeks. We still being here speaking Greek and
defending our Greekness against unstopped Slavic attempt to slavicize
Macedonia and us Macedonians.
> Which language is spoken by the majority in the Greek province of
Macedonian, that was always a Greek dialect:
http://www.chs.harvard.edu/classicsat/issue_1/z_classat_pdf/posid_4-04_rev_
4.doc.pdf
> Macedonia? Ancient Macedonians vanished 2000 years ago, and no one
> really knows whether they were of Greek or of some other origin. The
Hahahahahahahaha ! We don't know the ethnicity of people who had Greek
names, toponyms, heroes, gods, dialect, and spread Greek Language and
Civilization to the World ?? Are you kidding ??
> majority of people that live nowadays in Greek province of Macedonia are
> just plain Greek. Or should another 'Greek-Macedonian' minority be added
> to the existing minorities in Greece?
And they call themselves Macedonians the last 3000 years at least.
Shouldn't all World respect our clannish name?
> > To claim that Alexander was slavic and spoke a slavic language is more
> > then preposterous.
> I didn't say anything about about Alexander the Cursed. But, now that
> you mention him: not really well known, but interesting story about him
> http://tinyurl.com/dh7mp
Tell me something? What did Macedonians forget to do to prove to us that
they were Greeks? I mean what do you SlavoSkopians do to prove to other
SlavoSkopians that you are SlavoSkopians?
World will laugh on you after the solution of the problem if you claim
relation with ancient Macedonians. But then if you are not related to
ancient Macedonians why to be called Macedonians? How does an IDIOT feel if
he is called Einstein ??
Yannis the Macedonian
> Anastassios D. Retzios wrote:
>
> > Well, this is not just stealing history per se. Stealing history is
> > preposterous and, at the end, laughable. However, what is going on
> > here is a clear and unumbiguous dispute by FYROM of the identity of
> > the Macedonian Greeks. The clear question to be answered is what do
> > you think when you utilize the term "Macedonian": do you think of the
> > citizens of FYROM
>
> Yes.
>
> > (and why?)
>
> And why not?
>
> > or the citizens of the Greek province of Macedonia?
>
> No, we call them Greeks from the Greek province of Macedonia (unless
> they are members of a minority, then we call them Macedonians, Albanians
> or Turks).
>
> > I think the answer to this will clarify the dispute quite
> > clearly for you.
>
> How about such clarification?
And then Macedonians are Greeks and SlavoSkopians are Macedonians, right?
And then Aigai is Greek but Kutlesh is Macedonian, right?
Could any one born and raised in a Macedonian environment be not able or
ashamed to say Thessaloniki, Arnissa, Axios, Aliakmon, Erigon, ...... or be
not proud of that campaign that Macedonians did to spread Greek Language
and Civilization to the World?
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
Dodo
You should know by now that in the case of FYROM it is much more then
the name.
It's falsification of history and more.
Could there be racism from your site?
Reading some of your comments I am inclined to think so.
> Luxembourg as state and as region in
> Netherlands - what wrong with that? Part of ancient Macedonia is now in
> Fyrom, so let them call himself macedonians, why to create problems
> from nothing?
>
Can I call you Russian then?
The true Estonian people disappeared ages ago.
Why not admitting that you are a Russian or perhaps German.
Perhaps Finn but not Estonian.
Dodo
Well the Fins are doing a hell of a job to prove that Karelians are not
Russians and until now the Russians who live in from Russia occupied
Karelia don't claim to be the " true " Karelians and that their
ancestors were living there for almost 2000 years.
Again you misunderstand by purpose.
Any inferiority complex perhaps?
vello
How much I know no russian claims to be karelian (exept small minority
in hope to get Finnish citizenship) and no finn try to prove that
karelians are not russians. We have long and cold winters so folks who
wasted their time and energy on bullshit have died out with their laizy
genes centuries ago - natural selection, if you know Darwin.
Inferiority complex? Hardly. Our problems are low birth but high
suicide rate. From medieval times when world maps start to show Nord on
upper end of globe our folks are probably even too selfish:-)
Nik
>>How about such clarification?
>
> And then Macedonians are Greeks and SlavoSkopians are Macedonians, right?
Yes, it seems so. I am sorry for your hurt feelings, but that just is so
nowadays. You can also check any of the EU document (see the ECRI report
above. I suppose you don't think it speaks about the discrimination of
the Greek population in the province of Macedonia?)
And sooner you come to terms with it, better it will be, for you and the
whole region.
> Could any one born and raised in a Macedonian environment be not able or
> ashamed to say Thessaloniki, Arnissa, Axios, Aliakmon, Erigon, ...... or be
> not proud of that campaign that Macedonians did to spread Greek Language
> and Civilization to the World?
I am sure Greeks can be proud. If I would be Greek I might be proud as
well. But think about two things:
- As vello already pointed out, people on the other side of the stick,
weren't at all fascinated about Alexander, Persians even called him
Alexander the Cursed.
- No problem in being proud of one's history. But be watchful what do
you really feel. Is it really proudness or is it arrogance and disregard
of others (again Serbs, with their feelings toward the historical
battles in Kosovo against Turks, give a nice example of what such
"proudness" brings).
Dodo
But the slavoskopians from Vardaska claim to be Macedonians
> (exept small minority
The majority of them.
> in hope to get Finnish citizenship) and no finn try to prove that
> karelians are not russians.
Yes they do because Karelians are not normal Fins. They have their own
history. A Karelian will always say first that he is Karelian before
saying that he is a Fin.
> We have long and cold winters
Rubbish. People spend their winters inside where there is a comfortable
temperature of 21-24 gegrees Celsius.
It's cold yes but outside of the house.
> so folks who
> wasted their time and energy on bullshit
Well they are alive and kicking.
The first 12 years in Finland when I went to bar I had always the same
conversation:
Where you are from?
Why are you here and when will you go back to your home country?
> have died out with their laizy
> genes centuries ago
So you are dead then?
> - natural selection, if you know Darwin.
> Inferiority complex? Hardly. Our problems are low birth
It's not a problem.
> but high
> suicide rate. From medieval times when world maps start to show Nord on
> upper end of globe our folks are probably even too selfish:-)
>
Up means away from the sun towards the cold.
In real life when you are outside and you would like to know what way
your are facing , do you look towards the darkest part of the horizon or
do you look in the direction of the sun trying to figure where the sun
will be at it's highest point and then you know where south and north is?
Meaning: First you have to figure out south before you can figure out north.
Some people go by the stars but there are no stars in daytime and no
stars on a clouded night plus most people can't read the stars.
vello
Dodo wrote:
> vello wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > How much I know no russian claims to be karelian
>
> But the slavoskopians from Vardaska claim to be Macedonians
> > (exept small minority
> The majority of them.
> > in hope to get Finnish citizenship) and no finn try to prove that
> > karelians are not russians.
>
> Yes they do because Karelians are not normal Fins. They have their own
> history. A Karelian will always say first that he is Karelian before
> saying that he is a Fin.
For sure, but have you really met some finn trying to prove that
karelians are not RUSSIANS???
> > We have long and cold winters
>
> Rubbish. People spend their winters inside where there is a comfortable
> temperature of 21-24 gegrees Celsius.
> It's cold yes but outside of the house.
> > so folks who
> > wasted their time and energy on bullshit
>
> Well they are alive and kicking.
> The first 12 years in Finland when I went to bar I had always the same
> conversation:
> Where you are from?
> Why are you here and when will you go back to your home country?
Hard to believe, but surely it depends will you appreciate in your bar
talks Finland or not. If not, there are better places to live.
> > have died out with their laizy
> > genes centuries ago
> So you are dead then?
> > - natural selection, if you know Darwin.
> > Inferiority complex? Hardly. Our problems are low birth
>
> It's not a problem.
> > but high
> > suicide rate. From medieval times when world maps start to show Nord on
> > upper end of globe our folks are probably even too selfish:-)
> >
> Up means away from the sun towards the cold.
> In real life when you are outside and you would like to know what way
> your are facing , do you look towards the darkest part of the horizon or
> do you look in the direction of the sun trying to figure where the sun
> will be at it's highest point and then you know where south and north is?
> Meaning: First you have to figure out south before you can figure out north.
> Some people go by the stars but there are no stars in daytime and no
> stars on a clouded night plus most people can't read the stars.
And your idea is???????
J. Anderson
"Dodo" <bla...@pop.com> wrote in message
news:vXAwe.246$%T3....@reader1.news.jippii.net...
> The first 12 years in Finland when I went to bar I had always the same
> conversation:
> Where you are from?
And it didn't end there. I would also be interested in knowing where you're
from. What's so bad about that? I got that question many times during my 15
years in Germany. It was usually the start of an interesting conversation.
> Why are you here
> But I wouldn't ask that kind of questions.
> and when will you go back to your home country?
And that's something I wouldn't dream of asking. And if you're honest, Dodo,
you'll have to admit that very few people have asked you that, if any.
Regards,
John
P.S. Please write Finn and Finnish with a double 'n'. 'Fin' is something
that a fish would have. And 'finish' means the end. 'Finis Finlandiae' (=
the end of Finland) is what the Finland-eaters used to shout in the Imperial
Russian Duma when they had decided about some new ways to reduce Finnish
autonomy.
Dodo
>
> Dodo wrote:
>
>>vello wrote:
>>
>
>
>>>
>>>How much I know no russian claims to be karelian
>>
>>But the slavoskopians from Vardaska claim to be Macedonians
>>
>>>(exept small minority
>>
>>The majority of them.
>>
>>>in hope to get Finnish citizenship) and no finn try to prove that
>>>karelians are not russians.
>>
>>Yes they do because Karelians are not normal Fins. They have their own
>>history. A Karelian will always say first that he is Karelian before
>>saying that he is a Fin.
>
>
> For sure, but have you really met some finn trying to prove that
> karelians are not RUSSIANS???
Have seen it in the Finish TV.
A document made by Fins who went to Karelia interviewing people and some
people from museums.
If Russians would claim that the Northern part of Estland was actually
always a part of Russia and rightfully belongs to Russia and Russia you
would react too.
But you care no further then your own skin.
You dislike Greeks because they are orthodox and you dislike orthodox
because the Russians are orthodox and you dislike Russians.
>
>>>We have long and cold winters
>>
>>Rubbish. People spend their winters inside where there is a comfortable
>>temperature of 21-24 gegrees Celsius.
>>It's cold yes but outside of the house.
>>
>>>so folks who
>>>wasted their time and energy on bullshit
>>
>>Well they are alive and kicking.
>>The first 12 years in Finland when I went to bar I had always the same
>>conversation:
>>Where you are from?
>>Why are you here and when will you go back to your home country?
>
> Hard to believe, but surely it depends will you appreciate in your bar
> talks Finland or not. If not, there are better places to live.
Not with 3 kids who go to a Finish school.
My ex-wife is a Fin.
Nobody was telling my stepfather to go back to his home country when he
was living in Greece.
>
>>>have died out with their laizy
>>>genes centuries ago
>>
>>So you are dead then?
>>
>>>- natural selection, if you know Darwin.
>>>Inferiority complex? Hardly. Our problems are low birth
>>
>>It's not a problem.
>>
>>>but high
>>>suicide rate. From medieval times when world maps start to show Nord on
>>>upper end of globe our folks are probably even too selfish:-)
>>>
>>
>>Up means away from the sun towards the cold.
>
>
>
>>In real life when you are outside and you would like to know what way
>>your are facing , do you look towards the darkest part of the horizon or
>>do you look in the direction of the sun trying to figure where the sun
>>will be at it's highest point and then you know where south and north is?
>>Meaning: First you have to figure out south before you can figure out north.
>>Some people go by the stars but there are no stars in daytime and no
>>stars on a clouded night plus most people can't read the stars.
>
>
> And your idea is???????
>
Well stupid people look at the globe and say: It's much easier to go
south because you only need to go down but coming back is difficult
because you have to struggle uphill.
No2: We from the North are superior to the Southerners because we are on
a higher place on the map.
Comment: Not my ideas but stupid stuff I have been hearing over the
years from " clever " Northern people.
J. Anderson
> You dislike Greeks because they are orthodox and you dislike orthodox
> because the Russians are orthodox and you dislike Russians.
Can't you understand that this has nothing to do with religion. Neither
Finns nor Estonians are especially religious people -- you ought to know
that by now -- and, besides, Greeks and Macedonians are all Orthodox anyway.
We are protecting the right of a small nation, bullied from all sides, to
call itself what ever it might please.
vello
Racism - you mean by me slavic macedonians are some higher race then
greeks? For sure not - and vice versa. God creates people as equal
ones.
> Reading some of your comments I am inclined to think so.
> > Luxembourg as state and as region in
> > Netherlands - what wrong with that? Part of ancient Macedonia is now in
> > Fyrom, so let them call himself macedonians, why to create problems
> > from nothing?
> >
>
> Can I call you Russian then?
> The true Estonian people disappeared ages ago.
> Why not admitting that you are a Russian or perhaps German.
> Perhaps Finn but not Estonian.
You can call me as you wish of course. But please notice there is no
wish to call greeks in one or other way by fyrom folks - at least here
in newsgroup just greek side is trying to know better, how neighbours
must call himself.
J. Anderson
"vello" <vell...@hot.ee> wrote in message
news:1119939206.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sorry, I don't know such a case for estonia, but there are Karelia in
> both Finland and Russia, Luxembourg as state and as region in
> Netherlands - what wrong with that? Part of ancient Macedonia is now in
> Fyrom, so let them call himself macedonians, why to create problems
> from nothing?
Vello, you keep bringing up Karelia, but there is actually an excellent
comparison much closer at hand: the historical province of Livonia -- in
Estonian 'Liivimaa', in Latvian 'Vidzeme'.
Livonia existed until the fall of the Czarist empire and was then divided
between the new states of Estonia and Latvia. On the Estonian side, the name
Liivimaa did no longer have any administrative significance, but in Latvia,
Vidzeme was one of the country's four provinces.
Imagine a situation, where southern Estonia would split from the rest of the
country and become independent. What would happen if it decided that it
would call itself Liivimaa? Would Latvia demand that it mustn't use such a
name because the original Livs, who gave it their name, used to live in
Latvia, and Vidzeme (= Livonia) is still a province of Latvia? Would Latvia
demand that the new state must call itself FEHL (= Former Estonian
Historical Livonia)?
Fehl -- das würde nie geschehen. Wrong -- that would never happen.
John
Dodo
> "Dodo" <bla...@pop.com> wrote in message
> news:5HDwe.338$MR4...@reader1.news.jippii.net...
>
>
>>You dislike Greeks because they are orthodox and you dislike orthodox
>>because the Russians are orthodox and you dislike Russians.
>
>
> Can't you understand that this has nothing to do with religion.
So why insulting orthodox people then?
> Neither
> Finns nor Estonians are especially religious people -- you ought to know
> that by now
It depends how you define " religious ".
-- and, besides, Greeks and Macedonians
Macedonians are Greeks and are religious to some extend.
> are all Orthodox anyway.
> We are protecting the right of a small nation, bullied from all sides, to
> call itself what ever
So do you become a girl when you call yourself a girl?
How about monkey?
> it might please.
1) ALBANIANS dislike that Macedonians don't let them setup Albanians
schools in the Macedonian towns where Albanian is the dominant language.
They feel like second class citizens and started a mini war over it
August 2001.
2) KOSOVARS don't like Macedonians who resent them for being refugees in
their country.
3) BULGARIANS refuse to recognize the Macedonian language. They claim
it's basically Bulgarian.
4) GREEKS despise that Slavoskopians call their country “Macedonia.”
They say it implies territorial claims on northern Greece. Add to this
their claim that Alexander was slavic and their ancestor.
Vardarska was it's name before 44
>
>
Then it must be either senility or dementia from your side that you
haven't noticed that FYROManians claim to be descentants of Macedonians.
Vardarska was its name before Tito renamed to " Macedonia "
Dodo
> "Dodo" <bla...@pop.com> wrote in message
> news:vXAwe.246$%T3....@reader1.news.jippii.net...
>
>
>>The first 12 years in Finland when I went to bar I had always the same
>>conversation:
>>Where you are from?
>
>
> And it didn't end there. I would also be interested in knowing where you're
> from. What's so bad about that?
And when you will go back?
And if I did not understand that hint ....
it went on like: You should not be here because Fins go to other
countries to find a job ..... you are taking the job away of a Fin etc. etc.
> I got that question many times during my 15
> years in Germany. It was usually the start of an interesting conversation.
Well most refugees get a job within 12 months in Germany but not so in
Sweden or Finland.
vello
Dodo wrote:
> vello wrote:
> > For sure, but have you really met some finn trying to prove that
> > karelians are not RUSSIANS???
>
> Have seen it in the Finish TV.
> A document made by Fins who went to Karelia interviewing people and some
> people from museums.
Poor Dodo, there may be people thinking about are Karelians Finns or
separate nation, but NOBODY is trying to proof Karelians are not
Russians coz NO ONE has rised so stupid idea.
> If Russians would claim that the Northern part of Estland was actually
> always a part of Russia and rightfully belongs to Russia and Russia you
> would react too.
Macedonia is as capable to take lands by force from Greece then Estonia
from Russia, so no danger there. How much I understand they have no
territorial claims to Greece, they just want to call himself
macedonians.
> But you care no further then your own skin.
> You dislike Greeks because they are orthodox and you dislike orthodox
> because the Russians are orthodox and you dislike Russians.
I dislike too sweet meals, about nations I try to operate without
emotions:-) For Greece, where you find I dislike greeks? As you find in
my other posts here I admire Greece as one "groundstone" of European
civilization. I just can't understand why it is so important for some
posters here to know better how slavic people living in territory of
ancient Macedonia can call himself. Ancient Bulgaria was turkish, must
Turkey ban name of Bulgaria coz modern bulgarians have nothing to do
with ancient Bulgars?
> >
> >
> > Hard to believe, but surely it depends will you appreciate in your bar
> > talks Finland or not. If not, there are better places to live.
>
> Not with 3 kids who go to a Finish school.
> My ex-wife is a Fin.
> Nobody was telling my stepfather to go back to his home country when he
> was living in Greece.
You just met idiots. My advice - take another bar.
> >
>
> Well stupid people look at the globe and say: It's much easier to go
> south because you only need to go down but coming back is difficult
> because you have to struggle uphill.
> No2: We from the North are superior to the Southerners because we are on
> a higher place on the map.
> Comment: Not my ideas but stupid stuff I have been hearing over the
> years from " clever " Northern people.
I don't know must we discuss it here but nordic pride is based on fact
that as medium, incomes and living standards in north are higher then
in south due better organization of society. Of course it is just
statistics, so most probably any northern person trying to look better
"on geographical base" is just looser in personal life - his only
chance is to be proud of place on the globe where he is living.
Again, I love Greece, his nature and friendly folks. Just being on
holidays in former Yugoslavia years ago I often caught myself thinking
how much times their life would be richer and happier without hating
each other. So discovering in this thread that also some greeks are
ready to start fight on basis of old myths and plain names and words,
was not nice surprise for me.
vello
For sure they can! I see also other options: newborn Liivimaa may
demand that half of Latvia must be given back to them, Livonians. Nice
ground for verbal and why not a physical war:-) Also, if livonians are
too lazy to create problems, we can start argue, is Finnish original
language or just Estonian dialect ("scientific ground" - today-finns
reached Finland via Varsinaissuomi from Estonia thousands of years ago,
if I remember correctly). Nice reason to kill each other down to make
place free for some unidentified neighbour:-)
Nik
>>Imagine a situation, where southern Estonia would split from the rest of the
>>country and become independent. What would happen if it decided that it
>>would call itself Liivimaa? Would Latvia demand that it mustn't use such a
>>name because the original Livs, who gave it their name, used to live in
>>Latvia, and Vidzeme (= Livonia) is still a province of Latvia? Would Latvia
>>demand that the new state must call itself FEHL (= Former Estonian
>>Historical Livonia)?
Cool example... Federation of the Northern Uralic Peoples? (Norduralia?
:) :) )
> For sure they can! I see also other options: newborn Liivimaa may
> demand that half of Latvia must be given back to them, Livonians. Nice
> ground for verbal and why not a physical war:-)
Uralic people that lived on the territory of the historical Livonia came
there a long time ago and actually called itself Livonians for some time
already.
When Latvia got its part of historical Livonia they expell most of the
people of the Uralic origin and bans the Uralic language, all must speak
Latvian from then on.
Later Livonians in the remaining part of the Livonia join that
federation and live in an state unit called Republic of Livonia, that
voluntarily joined the above federation and made on of its constituent
part.
So when southern Estonia (Republic of Livonia) splits, nationalist
tensions aflare mostly because of their fucked up history (and there is
no more repression that would control such nationalist feelings); but
most of the Livonians know that today borders can't be changed under the
Helsinki protocols and that all they can do is to call the attention of
the international community to the human rights violations happening in
Latvia against Livonians.
There are signs of another major military conflict in that area, the
second partition of the remainig part of Livonia among Latvians and
other neighours..., uf, or maybe 'alle gegen alle'... but the
international community does send a contingent of forces to Livonia that
prevents it (luckily they were on time this time, even USA troops on
ground, no problem about that... - the first succesful prevention of a war?)
The Union accepts the necessary laws and conventions against racism and
intolerance, and invites its members to ratify and fulfill them, and
most of the coutries work in cooperation of the Union, but some fail to
fullfill even most basic requirements (like recognition of a concept of
a minority in France).
Will the Union force those countries to stop their racist bullshit?
Maybe some summarily judgment of the ECourt would be required? But the
ECourt doesn't deal with such cases, or even if it does, the judgement
is not fullfilled by the member... Things in union members do get
better, but only in *very* small steps. What is in the future?
> Also, if livonians are
> too lazy to create problems, we can start argue, is Finnish original
> language or just Estonian dialect ("scientific ground" - today-finns
> reached Finland via Varsinaissuomi from Estonia thousands of years ago,
> if I remember correctly). Nice reason to kill each other down to make
> place free for some unidentified neighbour:-)
No, no, not start... That goes on all along! From time immemorial... :(
---------------
Third report on Bulgaria
Adopted on 27 June 2003 made public on 27 January 2004
52. In its second report, ECRI recommended that the Bulgarian
authorities take steps to ensure that all minority groups in Bulgaria,
including Macedonians, effectively enjoyed the right of peaceful assembly.
54. ECRI notes that Macedonians have expressed the desire that the
Bulgarian state should better acknowledge their existence as a national
minority.
*Recommendations*
55. ECRI encourages the Bulgarian authorities to continue their efforts
to improve the situation with regard to the right of peaceful assembly
of all minority groups, including Macedonians.
57 Lastly, ECRI strongly recommends that the Bulgarian authorities
establish a dialogue with the representatives of the Macedonians to find
a solution to the tension that exists between this group and the
authorities, but also between this group and the majority population, so
as to enable them to live together and respect one another in the
interests of all concerned.
niko...@gmail.com
Bulgaria DO allow the party and organization to exist of so called
Macedonians.
Bulgaria can't not acknowledge existence of Macedonians, as we can't
acknowledge existence of Martians, although if anyone claim to be
Martian he is welcome to do so in Bulgaria and make a party, society
and etc. No one will stop him.
Once this party starts claiming the split of Bulgaria - then this goes
as anticonstitutional - and party gets banned. The person can do that
of course, no one will stop him.
Nik
If really so, then cool... except for existence of Macedonians, which
(psychic mode on) you will have to acknowledge, sooner or later (psychic
mode off). :)
But we will see what the next report writes...
niko...@gmail.com
I am asking you,
If someone claim to be Napoleon Bonaparte are you going to recognize
him?
Probably not. But I am not telling you do it, not do it - it is your
call.
Although he IS Napoleon (in his mind), and no one should deny his right
to call himself Napoleon, act as Napoleon and make a party that hail
him as Napoleon.
It is his right.
My right is not to believe him and not recognize him as Napoleon.
Bulgaria does not enforce any policy on those Napoleon people (around
4500 on the last census). They have as much rights as me.
But it is not right to force Buglaria to recognize him as Napoleon.
If you recognize him, great for you ;-)
I will ask you something,
If your cosin tells you he is not *Sloven* (I am just geussing your
nationality) but for example Austrian,
Are you going to agree with him?
Because we (many Bulgarians) do have a cosins in Macedonia, you know.
vello
Nik wrote:
> vello wrote:
>
> > Also, if livonians are
> > too lazy to create problems, we can start argue, is Finnish original
> > language or just Estonian dialect ("scientific ground" - today-finns
> > reached Finland via Varsinaissuomi from Estonia thousands of years ago,
> > if I remember correctly). Nice reason to kill each other down to make
> > place free for some unidentified neighbour:-)
>
> No, no, not start... That goes on all along! From time immemorial... :(
Unhappily our blood is too calm here:-( No war, no bright battle scenes
on CNN...
>
> ---------------
Nik
> Unhappily our blood is too calm here:-( No war, no bright battle scenes
> on CNN...
:) Blood, or weather? Brrr, it is too cold, I better get inside...
Can I ask a question? I wonder how related Ugro-Finnic languages are.
For example, if one speaks Estonian, how much of Finnish or Karelian or
Hungarian would he understand?
Nik
Nik
You are missing the point. People *must* be free to say which
nationality they are, it can not be forced on someone. The only thing
that a state should do is to register his choice.
You can not say to someone who thinks he is a Macedonian, that he is
Bulgarian; and you can not say to a Slovene: no you are not Slovene, you
are Windish. So whatever your cousin thinks, that he is (Macedonian or
Bulgarian).
niko...@gmail.com
But did not recognize him (as you ask before).
As far as cosin goes, you may call him Macedonian, it is your problem
and you right.
You do not know better.
But put your self in possition your cosin says he is Napoleon Bonaparte
what you are going to do?
Accept,
Recognize,
Even help him in his demental state?
I as outside guy easily will say, the cosin says he is Napoleon
Bonaparte, so he must be. So I will accept he is.
Do you get the point?
Yannis the Macedonian
> Thracians were not Greeks,
> With such regional term, you risk made up new nation in future.
> We already have one such example on the vicinity.
Thracians were fully hellenized by the end of 4c AD. That's why Bulgarian
language has no Thracian words but many Greek.
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
http://www.network54.com/Forum/407998
vello
Nik wrote:
> vello wrote:
>
> > Unhappily our blood is too calm here:-( No war, no bright battle scenes
> > on CNN...
>
> :) Blood, or weather? Brrr, it is too cold, I better get inside...
Both!!!!
>
> Can I ask a question? I wonder how related Ugro-Finnic languages are.
> For example, if one speaks Estonian, how much of Finnish or Karelian or
> Hungarian would he understand?
>
> Nik
Don't know much about Karelian. For Estonian, Finnish is not something
to learn, but you can't just go and talk also. Reading is relatively
easy, understanding fast speaking takes more time.
Some guys describe it this way: " it takes six hours and three beers to
learn Finnish - or three hours but six beers!"
How much I know for Finn it is not as easy to understand Estonian. Why?
Coz finnish is more conservative. Estonians have "eaten" a lot of new
words finns don't know. For finnish terms what they have different from
Estonian, we don't use them but still "remember" such words. When I was
a kid and first time watch Finnish TV it was so funny for me that about
"adult things" as politics etc they talk in a language of old fairy
tales as it then seems to me. Let's say this way, without learning,
estonian and finn can drink beer together and understand about 80% what
they are talking to each other if they limited their talk with everyday
topics.
Hungarian is total disaster for me - only place in Europe I can't
understand a single word (well, twenty probably after several visits).
We divided in so far past that there are just some basic words common:
sun, blood, hand, leg, water etc. But structure how we make sentence
from words is the same (and very different from indoeuropean
languages). Also hungarian sounds familiar - it feels like estonian
talk so one may wonder why the heck he can't understand nothing.
There is or was also Livonian language - very close to Estonian, in
fact much closer to official Estonian (northern dialect) then local
dialects on islands and Southern Estonia (weird, but South Estonian
dialect is much closer to Finnish then northern, official one).
Probably John will add his wiew from Northern side of Finnish gulf and
talk about Karelian.
niko...@gmail.com
that does not make them Greeks.
If you continue with the more of that, you may find Turks to be
Thracean,
(actually we see that in Bulgaria that, but not on mass scale).
Yannis the Macedonian
Get hellenized >> become Hellene >> be hellene >> nobody could distinguish
me from other hellenes.
That some people of Thracian origin is now Turks, is obvious. Ancestors of
about 500,000 Greek pupils kiddnapped by Ottoman state during the dark
times, today are Turks. Nobody shall have any doubt about that.
Nik
Thanks. As for Slavic I understand 100% Serbian/Croatian and somewhat
less Macedonian. From others I think most close would be Czech and
Slovak. Other may have some common words, but often also with completely
different meaning (krasnaya - red in Russ., krasna - beautiful in Slo.),
and I can't say I would understand them...
Well all Finno-Ugric languages are an absolute disaster for me, not just
Hungarian... I understand only words like 'coca-cola' ... :)
I got this link not long ago... complete darkness, not a word... luckly
I also have a translation :)
http://uralica.com/music/satumaaa2.rm
Aavan meren tuolla puolen jossakin on maa,
Missä onnen kaukorantaan laine liplattaa.
Missä kukat kauneimmat luo aina loistettaan,
Siellä huolet huomisen voi jäädä unholaan.
Oi jospa kerran sinne satumaahan käydä vois,
Niin sieltä koskaan lähtisi en linnun lailla pois.
Vaan siivetönnä en voi lentää vanki olen maan,
Vain aatoksin mi kauas entää sinne käydä saan.
Lennä laulu sinne missä siintää satumaa,
Sinne missä oma armain mua odottaa.
Lennä laulu sinne lailla linnun liitävän.
Kerro että aatoksissain on vain yksin hän.
vello
Krasnaya in meaning red is relatively new form of russian. When square
was built, it was built as Beautiful Square, not Red one.
>
> Well all Finno-Ugric languages are an absolute disaster for me, not just
> Hungarian... I understand only words like 'coca-cola' ... :)
>
> I got this link not long ago... complete darkness, not a word... luckly
> I also have a translation :)
>
> http://uralica.com/music/satumaaa2.rm
>
> Aavan meren tuolla puolen jossakin on maa,
> Missä onnen kaukorantaan laine liplattaa.
> Missä kukat kauneimmat luo aina loistettaan,
> Siellä huolet huomisen voi jäädä unholaan.
>
> Oi jospa kerran sinne satumaahan käydä vois,
> Niin sieltä koskaan lähtisi en linnun lailla pois.
> Vaan siivetönnä en voi lentää vanki olen maan,
> Vain aatoksin mi kauas entää sinne käydä saan.
>
> Lennä laulu sinne missä siintää satumaa,
> Sinne missä oma armain mua odottaa.
> Lennä laulu sinne lailla linnun liitävän.
> Kerro että aatoksissain on vain yksin hän.
You and croatians have a river Rieka - is it the same very river from
all rivers in slavic world get name (rieka, reka = river)?
Николай Сърмаджиев
>
> Get hellenized >> become Hellene >> be hellene >> nobody could distinguish
> me from other hellenes.
Not a valid argument,
Most of today's Bulgarians and Macedonians are Thracean descendants but this
not make Thraceans = Bulgarians. In Bulgaria (and in Greece) you may know
there are one "tribe" that is believe to be direct descendant of Thrace
people - Karakachani, although there are not a lot of evidences about that
theory. Anyway we should not call ancient people (and use there names) in
today categories.
>
> That some people of Thracian origin is now Turks, is obvious. Ancestors of
> about 500,000 Greek pupils kiddnapped by Ottoman state during the dark
> times, today are Turks. Nobody shall have any doubt about that.
It is totally different, I am not talking about enicharies.
I am talking about the Turks that know claim to be Thraceans en-mass.
Nik
> You and croatians have a river Rieka - is it the same very river from
> all rivers in slavic world get name (rieka, reka = river)?
>
As for 'river':
Slov.: reka
Cro. : rijeka
Yes, there is a river with a name 'Reka' in Slovenia. A tiny part of it
flows through Croatia as well (there is called 'Rijeka'). But I don't
think the word itself comes from *this* river, I think Slovenes didn't
spoke O.C.S anymore, when coming to todays territory.
Don't have some slavic etymology at the hand, this is from online
english version:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=r&p=16
rivulet
1587, from It. rivoletto, dim. of rivolo, itself a dim., from L. rivus
"stream, brook," from *reiwos, lit. "that which flows," from PIE base
*rei- "to flow" (cf. Skt. rinati "causes to flow," ritih "stream,
course;" O.C.S. reka "river;" M.Ir. rian "river, way;" Goth. rinnan
"run, flow," rinno "brook;" M.L.G. ride "brook;" O.E. riş "stream").
language codes
L. - latin,
lit. - lituanian,
skt - sanskrit,
PIE - proto indo-european
O.C.S - old church slavonic, ...
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
"Yannis the Macedonian" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message
news:42c4...@news.sch.gr...
Demokritos was from Thrace. No one can deny that he was a Greek.
Panayiotis
Yannis the Macedonian
...................................
> Yeah, surely. Macedonia will join EU and NATO, arm itself to the teeth
> and launch a massive invasion against Greece. You must be kidding.
.............................
It would be more difficult for the SlavoSkopians to join any country who
threats Greek sovereignty if they are not dreaming of Macedonia.
They cannot stop dreaming of Macedonia as long as they are named
Macedonians.
International political situation is changing rapidly.
After all what is Macedonian in FYROPM ??
Yannis the Macedonian
> For me essential is do they really know himself as makedonijans or is
> it just politics. In first case I support theyr right to call himself
> makedonijans.
Noooooooooooooo !!
Because we call ourselves Macedonians the last 3000 years.
The self determination right is not exclusive SlavoSkopian, right ??
J. Anderson
> "vello" <vell...@hot.ee> wrote:
>> For me essential is do they really know himself as makedonijans or is
>> it just politics. In first case I support theyr right to call himself
>> makedonijans.
>
>
> Noooooooooooooo !!
>
> Because we call ourselves Macedonians the last 3000 years.
3000 years! Imagine that! And you're still mentally Stone Age.
Did you know that there are five places called Athens in the USA? How about
some hysterical action against Texas, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama and Georgia?
They've all stolen your capital!!! And they are best buddies with the
Turks!!!
There are also places called Finland and Denmark in the States. Isn't that
just horrible?
«Pas de deux»
"Yannis the Macedonian" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message
news:42c6...@news.sch.gr...
«Pas de deux»
"Yannis the Macedonian" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message
news:42c6bb08$2...@news.sch.gr...
Yannis the Macedonian
> >> For me essential is do they really know himself as makedonijans or is
> >> it just politics. In first case I support theyr right to call himself
> >> makedonijans.
> > Noooooooooooooo !!
> > Because we call ourselves Macedonians the last 3000 years.
> 3000 years! Imagine that! And you're still mentally Stone Age.
I am sure that 3000 years ago it was stone-age for you.
> Did you know that there are five places called Athens in the USA? How
about
> some hysterical action against Texas, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama and
Georgia?
> They've all stolen your capital!!! And they are best buddies with the
> Turks!!!
> There are also places called Finland and Denmark in the States. Isn't
that
> just horrible?
Do you really cannot see the difference ??
Yannis the Macedonian
> >It would be more difficult for the SlavoSkopians to join any country who
> >threats Greek sovereignty if they are not dreaming of Macedonia.
> >
> >They cannot stop dreaming of Macedonia as long as they are named
> >Macedonians.
> >
> >International political situation is changing rapidly.
>
> strongest country in the world can stop anybody dreaming. What can be
> accomplished here can only be accomplished within a framework of a
> compromise that would be acceptable to both parties.
Tito made it. He managed to make them stop dreaming about Bulgaria and
start dreaming about Macedonia. The opposite can be done by generous
SlavoSkopian leaders ( nobody of them around) who see the truth:
Macedonians were always Greeks.
Anyway, by naming themselves as Macedonians, SlavoSkopians made a big step
against Greeks and Greek sovereignty. Yes, situation is very unstable in
modern World but each step made by anyone towards a direction, makes the
next step easier !!
> Also, dealing with imaginary threats is unlikely to convince anybody
> about your particular rights in a dispute. I would suggest that it
> would be best if we stick in present day realities. In addition, I
> think that it would be much better if you make clear to the persons
> that you are interacting, what is particularly injurious to you about
> the claims by FYROM.
> For example, what if they utilized the term "Macedonian" (somewhat
> differentiated) but made it very clear that they had nothing to do
> with ancient Macedonia. Would this then be a problem to you?
> ADR
Not simply "somewhat" but radically differentiated: One word (
Novomacedonian). This word for everything: Citizenship. ethnicity,
language, ....
Sometimes I am really wandering WHY don't they accept the term
Novomacedonia for their country ??
Apparently because they think they are some how related to ancient
Macedonians !! They are simply flummoxed by IDIOT propagandists !!
lora...@cs.com
Yannis the Macedonian wrote:
> Sometimes I am really wandering WHY don't they accept the term
> Novomacedonia for their country ??
>
> Apparently because they think they are some how related to ancient
> Macedonians !! They are simply flummoxed by IDIOT propagandists !!
>
> Istor
> Macedonians were always Greeks
I am curious.
Is the name 'Macedonia' ('Make' - 'dona') literally translatable to
anything meaningful in classical Greek? (other than a place name)?
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
news:Pzzxe.15901$mK5.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Why do you use this pseudonym? To let everyone believe you are educated and
cultured? Your reply is not decent. Please behave yourself.
Panayiotis
Yannis the Macedonian
Of course it is:
At Odyssey 7.105
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hom.+Od.+7.77
Homer wrote: "oia te fylla makedanis aigeiroio" = like the leaves of a high
and wet poplar.
So makedanos is high and wet like Macedonia.
Homeric words aigeiros and fyllo are still in use in modern Greek!
Also modern Greeks say "makedonisi" for parsley. This word "makedonisi"
went in Turkish and returned back in Greek as maidanos.
Istor
Macedonia, Greece
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
"«Pas de deux»" <kamou...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
news:da6go5$fhg$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
J. Anderson,
I wouldn't mind if Skopje was renamed to Athens. But not to Thessaloniki.
There IS a difference!
Panayiotis
«Pas de deux»
<Anastassios D. Retzios> wrote in message
news:pijdc11sflii9efr3...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:48:46 -0400, "«Pas de deux»"
> <kamou...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>THIS SUBJECT IS CLOSED. FUCK OFF.
>
> If you have appointed yourself a moderator, let us know. I guess
> everybody is a legend in their own minds. If you do not care to see a
> message, use your filters and stop participating in a discussion.
>
> ADR
«Pas de deux»
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
news:1120327524.7...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
lorad474,
Yannis in his message below gives you an explanation as literary men see it
in Homer and books.
I have been taught in school that the word Makedonia is derived from the
word "Makednos", which means "a tall person". That is, Makedonia is the
place of tall persons.
Regards,
Panayiotis
«Pas de deux»
"Yannis the Macedonian" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message
news:42c6f706$1...@news.sch.gr...
«Pas de deux»
"Panayiotis" <panayi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:da70k1$kkp$2...@usenet.otenet.gr...
lora...@cs.com
Yannis the Macedonian wrote:
> <lora...@cs.com> wrote:...
> > I am curious.
> > Is the name 'Macedonia' ('Make' - 'dona') literally translatable to
> > anything meaningful in classical Greek? (other than a place name)?
>
> Of course it is:
>
> At Odyssey 7.105
> http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hom.+Od.+7.77
> Homer wrote: "oia te fylla makedanis aigeiroio" = like the leaves of a high
> and wet poplar.
>
> So makedanos is high and wet like Macedonia.
> Homeric words aigeiros and fyllo are still in use in modern Greek!
> Also modern Greeks say "makedonisi" for parsley. This word "makedonisi"
> went in Turkish and returned back in Greek as maidanos.
> Istor
> Macedonia, Greece
To me it is wonderful to discover two ancient languages, Greek and
Baltic, arriving at condordance in unexpected ways...
Jani, (the Latvian name for John is, like the Greek, also 'Janis'
(pronounced Yaanis)) You must be absolutely correct in your statement.
The concordance:
The Latvian 'Makonis' means "cloud" or "rain cloud" or "storm cloud".
The related Ltv. 'Makonains' means "cloudy/nebulous"
This is the fourth time that I have encountered a mutually Greek-Baltic
intelligible meaning for a classical Greek place name. Two previous
place names were also descriptive of prevailing natural conditions.
In looking at the second stem 'donia' (as though it had an independent
meaning) I can offer three Latvian possibilities; the Latvian 'duns'
indicating a 'wet place', 'dunas' meaning down as in 'feather down', or
the more dramatic 'dunona' meaning 'droning/rolling thunder'.
In my opinion, all three of the Baltic 'dun' stems seem to have
originally had a conflated meaning centered on clouds and moisture.
I have now a clearer picture of what Makedonia originally meant;
'The (high) country wreathed in clouds and droning thunder'.
Many Thanks
July 2, 2005
«Pas de deux»
research. Don't just fantasize and propose etymologies on the basis of
wishful thinking.
GK
<lora...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1120346868.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
J. Anderson
>
> Anyway, by naming themselves as Macedonians, SlavoSkopians made a big step
> against Greeks and Greek sovereignty.
I must say that Greeks and Greek sovereignty in that case have an extremely
weak foundation. Must remember not to fart in your direction lest your
Hellas falls apart.
J. Anderson
<lora...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1120327524.7...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I am curious.
> Is the name 'Macedonia' ('Make' - 'dona') literally translatable to
> anything meaningful in classical Greek? (other than a place name)?
No, Makedonija comes from Latvian. The first part simply means wallet's
(maka) and the second part crust (doninja). In other words: the crust of the
wallet.
People in the region used to keep a small bread-crust in their wallets as a
safety against the wild rats that plagued Makedonija. If a rat attacked,
they bribed it with the crust.
J. Anderson
<Anastassios D. Retzios> wrote in message
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:52:16 +0300, "J. Anderson" <fer...@mail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Yannis the Macedonian" <mak...@vip.gr> wrote in message
>>news:42c6bb08$2...@news.sch.gr...
>>> "vello" <vell...@hot.ee> wrote:
>>>> For me essential is do they really know himself as makedonijans or is
>>>> it just politics. In first case I support theyr right to call himself
>>>> makedonijans.
>>>
>>>
>>> Noooooooooooooo !!
>>>
>>> Because we call ourselves Macedonians the last 3000 years.
>>
>>3000 years! Imagine that! And you're still mentally Stone Age.
>
> parties before you render a sweeping verdict
>
>>Did you know that there are five places called Athens in the USA? How
>>about
>>some hysterical action against Texas, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama and
>>Georgia?
>>They've all stolen your capital!!! And they are best buddies with the
>>Turks!!!
>>
>>There are also places called Finland and Denmark in the States. Isn't that
>>just horrible?
>
> issue of a name. In fact, nobody in Greece would particularly care if
> there are 1000 Athens or 1000 Spartas in the US. None of these would
> ever pretend to be the real Athens or the real Sparta. I am sure that
> if a nut ever proclaims so, the citizens of these places would burst
> into laughter.
The citizens of the rest of Europe have been laughing at Greece for quite a
while already.
> However, this is the situation that we are facing with FYROM. FYROM
> officially states that it is the "real Macedonia" and that Greece
> "occupies" what they call "Aegean Macedonia" illegally. In addition,
> it lays a claim on the totally of ancient Macedonia, Alexander, Philip
> and all that. Although it may seem funny to you that a slavic group
> pretends officially to be the descendents of Alexander the Great,
> there is little that is really funny about this situation.
So you live under the illusion that all Hellenic Macedonians had left the
region, and it was empty when the Slavic Macedonians moved in? Why can't you
accept the much more probable explanation that the Hellenic Macedonians were
simply Slavicized? That gives the present population (whether Slavic or
Hellenic) equal 'rights' to use the sacred name Macedonia.
> And talking about the Stone age, I think that those who interject
> themselves in disputes they know little about and understand even less
> are truer Neatherdahls than the rest of us.
Yes, of course it's only the Greeks who understand anything about this
dispute. That goes without saying. God, how ridiculous you are!
«Pas de deux»
Tha's right! In fact, "MacDonalds" is a corruption of "Mak-donis",
which was the real name of a Slavic Macedonian immigrant from Skopje to
USA in the 1890s...
Yannis the Macedonian
> Jovanche learn a new word from Ilinden flummoxed, Jovanche you are
> discombobulated also.
I love you too my chum!
Sweet kisses !!
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
> Yannis the TURK wrote:
>
> > <lora...@cs.com> wrote:...
> >
> >
> >>Yannis the Macedonian wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Sometimes I am really wandering WHY don't they accept the term
> >>>Novomacedonia for their country ??
> >>>
> >>>Apparently because they think they are some how related to ancient
> >>>Macedonians !! They are simply flummmoxed by IDIOT propagandists !!
> >>>
> >>>Istor
> >>>Macedonians were always Macedonians
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
Yannis the Macedonian
> THE SUBJECT IS CLOSED. FUCK OFF.
> PS Look at where I live, tete de merde. Ici on parle francais.
391356
Yannis the Macedonian
> research. Don't just fantasize and propose etymologies on the basis of
> wishful thinking.
>
> GK
Why don't you enlighten us with your non-wishful etymologies ??
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
share the same root as the Greek.
The rest is Hui hurriedly reaching for his ratskin wallet.
/P
lora...@cs.com
«Pas de deux» wrote:
> "Lorad", for Christ sake, get a real dictionary and do some real
> research. Don't just fantasize and propose etymologies on the basis of
> wishful thinking.
> GK
I have. And I used standard Latvian dictionaries. You should buy one.
And this is not the place or time for your personal (crypto-political)
animosities.
lora...@cs.com
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> Simple -- many of the words for moisture in Latvian and Lithuanian
> share the same root as the Greek.
Yes, as I pointed out.
> The rest is Hui hurriedly reaching for his ratskin wallet.
No, the rest is synthesis leading to discovery.
lora...@cs.com
Panayiotis wrote:
> lorad474,
> Yannis in his message below gives you an explanation as literary men see it
> in Homer and books.
> I have been taught in school that the word Makedonia is derived from the
> word "Makednos", which means "a tall person". That is, Makedonia is the
> place of tall persons.
Can you recall any linguistic evidence that would support that
contention?
Николай Сърмаджиев
> <Anastassios D. Retzios> wrote:
> Tito made it. He managed to make them stop dreaming about Bulgaria and
> start dreaming about Macedonia. The opposite can be done by generous
> SlavoSkopian leaders ( nobody of them around) who see the truth:
Yannis,
Do you known how Tito achieve that?
Almost 15% of population were put in <camps> like Goli Otok and 22 000 died
there. Several notable trials were held, a lot of the educated Macedonians
were slatered, even communist leaders that were Bulgarian were expell at
best.
And as of today big chunk of population is still Bulgarian and re-Bulgarize.
If Bulgaria become a member of EU, not very long after that, yo will not
have a problem with Macedonia name (in terms of continuity with ancient
Macedonian).
At least this is what I get from the people that visit Macedonia recently
and the Macedonia press I am reading (in that *foreign* language).
Do not listen to the Ilinden and other Macedonist here. They are out of
touch, and mostly dreaming.
For example:
A month ago the book for Todor Alexandrov were publish in Macedonia by
Macedonian historian, with real documents inside, and believe me it is not
pleasant for Macedonist.
The only country at the region that support Macedonist is Serbia, but they
steadily loosing the power over Macedonia, Tito Yugoslavia is dead, and
more and more people in Macedonia understand that. On contrary almost half
of Macedonian population have visited Bulgaria (and not only Pirin region).
This making them a great impression, after all their lives they listen
Bulgarians=Tatars, they eating Macedonians for breakfast and nothing in
common and etc, and they are coming and seeing essentially the same people
from Sofia to Varna and this make them very very cautions and alert.
Macedonians (esp. younger once) understand and speak better Bulgarian then
Serbian even after 100 years of heavy Serbinization, and Macedonizations.
Almost 20% of all university students in Macedonia currently graduating in
Bulgaria, after 5 years in Sofia you should be idiot to think we are
different from each other.
And this is noticeable in Macedonia. Government trying to prevent students
from studying in Bulgaria. Do not allow building of direct train-track
Sofia - Skopje, do not allow building of new border-crossing stations...
... let see how all will end,
My bet is - Macedonia will stop rely on <ancient Macedonians and Bukefal>
and will return to its Bulgarian roots, acknowledge the same origin of the
people and the division in 1944. Then I believe you will not have a problem
with name, since it will not be used in bad intention toward Greece.
Yannis the Macedonian
> Yannis the Macedonian wrote:
> > <lora...@cs.com> wrote:...
>
> > > I am curious.
> > > Is the name 'Macedonia' ('Make' - 'dona') literally translatable to
> > > anything meaningful in classical Greek? (other than a place name)?
> >
> > Of course it is:
> >
> > At Odyssey 7.105
> > http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hom.+Od.+7.77
> > Homer wrote: "oia te fylla makedanis aigeiroio" = like the leaves of a
high
> > and wet poplar.
> >
> > So makedanos is high and wet like Macedonia.
> > Homeric words aigeiros and fyllo are still in use in modern Greek!
> > Also modern Greeks say "makedonisi" for parsley. This word "makedonisi"
> > went in Turkish and returned back in Greek as maidanos.
> > Istor
> > Macedonia, Greece
>
> To me it is wonderful to discover two ancient languages, Greek and
> Baltic, arriving at condordance in unexpected ways...
You shouldn't be surprised. Both are IE languages. Many Greek etymological
dics have references to Baltic languages.
> Jani, (the Latvian name for John is, like the Greek, also 'Janis'
> (pronounced Yaanis)) You must be absolutely correct in your statement.
> The concordance:
> The Latvian 'Makonis' means "cloud" or "rain cloud" or "storm cloud".
> The related Ltv. 'Makonains' means "cloudy/nebulous"
> This is the fourth time that I have encountered a mutually Greek-Baltic
> intelligible meaning for a classical Greek place name. Two previous
> place names were also descriptive of prevailing natural conditions.
> In looking at the second stem 'donia' (as though it had an independent
> meaning) I can offer three Latvian possibilities; the Latvian 'duns'
> indicating a 'wet place', 'dunas' meaning down as in 'feather down', or
> the more dramatic 'dunona' meaning 'droning/rolling thunder'.
Root "don" is somehow related to Greek word x8wn (чиюн. spell: chi, theta,
omega, ni) wich mean earth or sea. It is related to the name Danaans
(=peoples of sea) the river named Dniepr, Dniestr, Tanais....
> In my opinion, all three of the Baltic 'dun' stems seem to have
> originally had a conflated meaning centered on clouds and moisture.
Possibly.
> I have now a clearer picture of what Makedonia originally meant;
> 'The (high) country wreathed in clouds and droning thunder'.
> Many Thanks
> July 2, 2005
To my view, Makedonia means either high land (makos = lengt + earth) or
high and wet or long river. The third choice is for Aliakmon the longest
river of Macedonia whose older name could be makedanos.
How old Latvian ancient texts are ??
I mean that we have Greek writtings from Mecynean era ( 15 c BC) and the
older known Greek poems are Homeric written at 8c BC. How old are your
texts?
Yannis the Macedonian
> > Anyway, by naming themselves as Macedonians, SlavoSkopians made a big
step
> > against Greeks and Greek sovereignty.
>
> I must say that Greeks and Greek sovereignty in that case have an
extremely
> weak foundation. Must remember not to fart in your direction lest your
> Hellas falls apart.
Greece has already a threat from the east.
FYROPM could be used by anyone to thread Greece. In that case an excuse
will be the name of the country and the dreams that SlavoSkopians have on
our Macedonia. Baselessly of course.
Anyway we cannot imagine any other serious reason for the SlavoSkopians to
get named Macedonians! Do you ?
Yannis the Macedonian
> Yannis the Macedonian wrote:
>
> > <Anastassios D. Retzios> wrote:
>
> > Tito made it. He managed to make them stop dreaming about Bulgaria and
> > start dreaming about Macedonia. The opposite can be done by generous
> > SlavoSkopian leaders ( nobody of them around) who see the truth:
>
> Yannis,
> Do you known how Tito achieve that?
> Almost 15% of population were put in <camps> like Goli Otok and 22 000
died
> there. Several notable trials were held, a lot of the educated
Macedonians
> were slatered, even communist leaders that were Bulgarian were expell at
> best.
I know Nikolay.
> And as of today big chunk of population is still Bulgarian and
re-Bulgarize.
> If Bulgaria become a member of EU, not very long after that, yo will not
> have a problem with Macedonia name (in terms of continuity with ancient
> Macedonian).
> At least this is what I get from the people that visit Macedonia recently
> and the Macedonia press I am reading (in that *foreign* language).
It is not my believe, Nikolay. In contrary, I believe that Bulgaria has
lost the game of SlavoSkopians Bulgarian feelings. There is of course a
minority with Bulgarian feelings but it is just a minority.
> Do not listen to the Ilinden and other Macedonist here. They are out of
> touch, and mostly dreaming.
>
> For example:
> A month ago the book for Todor Alexandrov were publish in Macedonia by
> Macedonian historian, with real documents inside, and believe me it is
not
> pleasant for Macedonist.
Well done. Those bastardized Bulgarians shall learn the truth.
> The only country at the region that support Macedonist is Serbia, but
they
> steadily loosing the power over Macedonia, Tito Yugoslavia is dead, and
> more and more people in Macedonia understand that. On contrary almost
half
> of Macedonian population have visited Bulgaria (and not only Pirin
region).
> This making them a great impression, after all their lives they listen
> Bulgarians=Tatars, they eating Macedonians for breakfast and nothing in
> common and etc, and they are coming and seeing essentially the same
people
> from Sofia to Varna and this make them very very cautions and alert.
> Macedonians (esp. younger once) understand and speak better Bulgarian
then
> Serbian even after 100 years of heavy Serbinization, and Macedonizations.
You shall lead them in Greece after that to see Macedonians' Greekness.
Greece shall pay for this.
> Almost 20% of all university students in Macedonia currently graduating
in
> Bulgaria, after 5 years in Sofia you should be idiot to think we are
> different from each other.
> And this is noticeable in Macedonia. Government trying to prevent
students
> from studying in Bulgaria. Do not allow building of direct train-track
> Sofia - Skopje, do not allow building of new border-crossing stations...
> ... let see how all will end,
> My bet is - Macedonia will stop rely on <ancient Macedonians and Bukefal>
> and will return to its Bulgarian roots, acknowledge the same origin of
the
> people and the division in 1944. Then I believe you will not have a
problem
> with name, since it will not be used in bad intention toward Greece.
Sorry, but we will still having problem with the name. If SlavoSkopians
deny any link (imaginary) with ancient Macedonians then they will be stupid
if they insist to be named Macedonians.
And there is a possibility for Bulgaria to use SlavoSkopians' claims on
Macedonia.
Anyway, there is a solution: Novomacedonia.
Yannis the Macedonian
> PS Look at where I live, tete de merde. Ici on parle francais.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/391356
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
<lora...@cs.com> wrote in message
lorad474,
Made a search on IE and found this webpage by someone of the National
Technical University of Athens. I found this source just today.
Anyway, I posted my explanation having in mind what I have been taught in
school, back in the 1950s.
Have in mind this:
The acronym "-ia" is used in Greek to denote "the land of" or "the place
where [people] live".
Ethiopia = place where Ethiopians live
Esthonia = place where Esthonians live
Italia, Ispania, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria = Place where the respective
people live
Macedonia = place where Macedonians live
QUOTE
The name Macedonia
The name Macedonia (Makedonia, in Greek) is totally Greek. According to
ancient Greek mythology, Makedon was the name of the tribeleader of the
Makedones, that was the part of the protohellenic tribe of Makednoi that
spread throughout the area of Western, Southern and Central Macedonia. The
name Makedon comes from the name Makednos which derives from the Greek word
Makos (that is the word Mikos in the doric dialect) meaning lenght. The
Makedones (or Macedonians) were regarded as tall people, and that's why they
acquired that name:
[MAKOS (MIKOS)==>MAKEDNOS==>MAKEDON]
????? (?????)==>????????==>???????
Length====>tall person====>Makedon
That analysis is correct because even Homer uses the term "makednis" for
tall, while talking about the leaves of tall poplar trees.
UNQUOTE
Remark: Words in brackets are mine to substitute for the words written in
Greek letters.
Another passage:
QUOTE
The Macedonians were a Dorian tribe, according to the testimony of Herodotus
(1, 56): "(The Dorian ethnos) ... dwelt in Pindos, where it was called
Makednon; from there ... it came to the Peloponnesos, where it took the name
of Dorian". And elsewhere (VIII, 43): "these (that is, the Lacedaimonians,
Corinthians, Sikyonians etc.), except the people of Hermione, were of the
Dorian and Makednon ethnos, and had most recently come from Erineos and
Pindos and Dryopis".
UNQUOTE
Note: Makednon ethnos.
Panayiotis
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
J. Anderson,
The funniest and stupidest explanation I've read. Money, wallets and BS!
When Macedonians existed and spread civilization, your ancestors were still
on trees eating nuts. Did they have tails or not?
Panayiotis
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
FTCOG -- you still couldn't get the joke.
/P
Николай Сърмаджиев
>
> It is not my believe, Nikolay. In contrary, I believe that Bulgaria has
> lost the game of SlavoSkopians Bulgarian feelings. There is of course a
> minority with Bulgarian feelings but it is just a minority.
Only 3 years ago, there were next to none Bulgarian "feeling" in Macedonia.
Even during the Albanian "crisis". They look at us from above.
Today the tables are changed. Believe me.
And the Bulgaria goal is quite simple. Acknowledge we used to be same (or
very very close) people 100 years, but today we are two nations. And stop
stealling other people history. Samuil, VMRO are Macedonian history but
from the time they were Bulgarians.
(Needless to say for us Alexander of Macedonia is mass-terorist and war
criminal :-)).
And this actually (judging by the Macedonia press) is happening even now.
For Macedonia?
Come on, it simply stupid to connect Alexander and Bulgarians, after what he
did in Baktia (Balghara) and in Thrace. For us he is not positive person at
all. along with other infamous Macedonian Vasilii.
And for Bulgarians, Macedonian means guy from Macedonia, could be Bulgarian,
could be Greek (not Vlah or Albanian I do not know why, don't ask me).
As for Bulgarian claims ... it was long time ago. If we are together in EU
(I don't like EU anyway) it will be again the "same" country, which mean
the great problem with Egeja ports and economy of Bulgaria will be
resolved.
You should know how are today connections beetwen Bulgaria and Greece, how
much our country working together and it will become even more deep soon.
>
> Anyway, there is a solution: Novomacedonia.
>
Not to argue with you,
but it is almost impossible for Macedonians to agree.
This mean the entire country and dream to colapse. It is not like the flag
or even remotely agree that they (or as I saw 2 days ago in Macedonian
newspaper ibanker "intelegencia") were Bulgarian, it is to acknowledge no
people as Macedonian Slavs ever exist.
So I don't think it will happen very easy, you must offer them something in
return more then "unblocking" EU membership.
May be the solution will be MaKedonia or Upper Macedonia or Vardar
Macedonia, not New Macedonia or Slavo Macedonia (that will separate them
from "Macedonian" roots, something that Macedonist can't afford.
Yannis the Macedonian
> Yannis the Macedonian wrote:
> > It is not my believe, Nikolay. In contrary, I believe that Bulgaria has
> > lost the game of SlavoSkopians Bulgarian feelings. There is of course a
> > minority with Bulgarian feelings but it is just a minority.
>
> Only 3 years ago, there were next to none Bulgarian "feeling" in
Macedonia.
> Even during the Albanian "crisis". They look at us from above.
> Today the tables are changed. Believe me.
> And the Bulgaria goal is quite simple. Acknowledge we used to be same (or
> very very close) people 100 years, but today we are two nations. And stop
> stealling other people history. Samuil, VMRO are Macedonian history but
> from the time they were Bulgarians.
> (Needless to say for us Alexander of Macedonia is mass-terorist and war
> criminal :-)).
> And this actually (judging by the Macedonia press) is happening even now.
> > deny any link (imaginary) with ancient Macedonians then they will be
> > stupid if they insist to be named Macedonians.
> > And there is a possibility for Bulgaria to use SlavoSkopians' claims on
> > Macedonia.
> For Macedonia?
> Come on, it simply stupid to connect Alexander and Bulgarians, after what
he
> did in Baktia (Balghara) and in Thrace. For us he is not positive person
at
> all. along with other infamous Macedonian Vasilii.
Your ancestors raised up the banner "Macedonia for the Macedonians".
> And for Bulgarians, Macedonian means guy from Macedonia, could be
Bulgarian,
> could be Greek (not Vlah or Albanian I do not know why, don't ask me).
> As for Bulgarian claims ... it was long time ago. If we are together in
EU
> (I don't like EU anyway) it will be again the "same" country, which mean
> the great problem with Egeja ports and economy of Bulgaria will be
> resolved.
> You should know how are today connections beetwen Bulgaria and Greece,
how
> much our country working together and it will become even more deep soon.
We Greeks do appreciate Bulgarian friendship.
But we will feel not okay as long as a country is named Macedonia. We could
accept a name like "something Macedonia" (two words) for FYROPM, ONLY IF
the adjectives for citizenship, language and ethnicity aren't just
Macedonian.
This problem raised by your ancestors 150y ago shall go to an end today,
not tomorrow! We shall make SlavoSkopians stop dreaming on Macedonian land
or history. The ONLY way to do this is to rename FYROPM to something like
Николай Сърмаджиев
Who is guilty for current situation is hard to say.
Yes VMRO rise the banner Macedonia for Macedonians.
But before that Greeks (or Elinophiliki) tried to assimilate entire
Macedonia by introducing the name Macedonia itself.
And Serbians very well played it as well.
So we are all in same boat (of guilt, no one is spare).
As far as solution of the name goes,
You do understand if they(Macedonians) accept your proposal it will be very
hard to keep country in tact, the Macedonist teaching is only one that keep
them different, without it ...
Yannis the Macedonian
> Yannis
> Who is guilty for current situation is hard to say.
>
> Yes VMRO rise the banner Macedonia for Macedonians.
> But before that Greeks (or Elinophiliki) tried to assimilate entire
> Macedonia by introducing the name Macedonia itself.
I desagree but this is not our point now.
> And Serbians very well played it as well.
> So we are all in same boat (of guilt, no one is spare).
> As far as solution of the name goes,
> You do understand if they(Macedonians) accept your proposal it will be
very
> hard to keep country in tact, the Macedonist teaching is only one that
keep
> them different, without it ...
But living in an open world, SlavoSkopians will learn that they are
Macedonian nothing. Be sure that if they are named Macedonians then each
time they claim relation with ancient Macedonians the World will laugh on
them. This shall be known to open minded SlavoSkopian scholars (if any) and
help SlavoSkopian people overpass Tito lies.
As Novomacedonians could claim as real holdovers of Macedonian spirit and
history. Greeks will laugh on them but will not have any objection on the
name. They are proud to say that while ancient Macedonian nobility was
hellenized ordinary Macedonian people remained Macedonian. Well, they
could still continue this theory without Greek objection!
J. Anderson
<Anastassios D. Retzios> wrote in message
> Yannis meant to say
Why are you always explaining what Yannis meant to say?
J. Anderson
"Panayiotis" <panayi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:da9k5h$s2o$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> When Macedonians existed and spread civilization, your ancestors were
> still
> on trees eating nuts. Did they have tails or not?
Of course our nuts have tails. Don't yours?
J. Anderson
<Anastassios D. Retzios> wrote in message
>>Yes, of course it's only the Greeks who understand anything about this
>>dispute. That goes without saying. God, how ridiculous you are!
>
> You are ridiculous. You know nothing (or next to nothing) as I have
> well proven but profess to have opinions and profess here to lecture
> to us.
You said it again. Only the Greeks know anything about this, and what they
know shows that the Greeks are right and all others are wrong. Well, that
could be expected.
J. Anderson
<Anastassios Retzios> wrote in message
news:51trc1lklr38s8j3q...@4ax.com...
> based, go ahead, state it. You will find me willing to engage you on
> discussion based on logic and facts. If you want just to spill venom,
> do it somewhere else.
There's apparently nothing to discuss. Both 'sides' have made up their
minds.
The Greeks claim that 'MacedoniaŽ' is a trademark to which they hold all
rights.
The rest of the world finds the Greeks ridiculous in their pettiness.
Panayiotis
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
"J. Anderson" <fer...@mail.com> wrote in message
Do you have tails (plural), too.
No, I do not mean that you are a nuts!
Panayiotis
Istor the Macedonian
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
J. Anderson wrote:
>>Spare us the homilies. If you have anything to say that is factually
>>based, go ahead, state it. You will find me willing to engage you on
>>discussion based on logic and facts. If you want just to spill venom,
>>do it somewhere else.
>
>
> There's apparently nothing to discuss. Both 'sides' have made up their
> minds.
>
> The Greeks claim that 'Macedonia®' is a trademark to which they hold all
Istor the Macedonian
> It's not possible with these people. I feel sorry for them. Such a long
> history, but such a low self-confidence.
We are defending our identity. Macedonian history is a big and very
important part of it. We cannot share this identity with any non-Greek.
Germans would not allow any non-German people be called Bavarian, French
didn't allow GB enter in EU but as UK, Albanians will not allow nay
non-Albanian people be called Tosks, .... and I am sure that there is a
similar place-region in your country.
Macedonians themselves humiliated foreign peoples (like Phrygians) who
wanted to pass as Macedonians.
Believe me, no special mind skills are needed to understand it.
Istor the Macedonian
to be replaced by
"France didn't allow UK enter in EU but as GB,"
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks
Ο "Istor the Macedonian" <is...@vip.gr> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:42d0...@news.sch.gr...
J. Anderson
"Istor the Macedonian" <is...@vip.gr> wrote in message
news:42d0...@news.sch.gr...
> "J. Anderson" <fer...@mail.com> wrote:...
>> It's not possible with these people. I feel sorry for them. Such a long
>> history, but such a low self-confidence.
>
>
>
> We are defending our identity. Macedonian history is a big and very
> important part of it. We cannot share this identity with any non-Greek.
> Germans would not allow any non-German people be called Bavarian, French
> didn't allow GB enter in EU but as UK, Albanians will not allow nay
> non-Albanian people be called Tosks, .... and I am sure that there is a
> similar place-region in your country.
We share the Bothnia region with Sweden, Lapland with Sweden and Norway, and
Karelia with Russia. Should we ask the Russians to call their
northwesternmost region 'FSARK' (Former Soviet Autonomous Republic of
Karelia)?
We certainly have more important matters to care about.
Istor the Macedonian
> > We are defending our identity. Macedonian history is a big and very
> > important part of it. We cannot share this identity with any non-Greek.
> > Germans would not allow any non-German people be called Bavarian,
French
> > didn't allow GB enter in EU but as UK, Albanians will not allow nay
> > non-Albanian people be called Tosks, .... and I am sure that there is a
> > similar place-region in your country.
>
> We share the Bothnia region with Sweden, Lapland with Sweden and Norway,
and
> Karelia with Russia. Should we ask the Russians to call their
> northwesternmost region 'FSARK' (Former Soviet Autonomous Republic of
> Karelia)?
> We certainly have more important matters to care about.
Apparently those regional names are not important for you. Otherwise you
wouldn't shared them with other nations. Let alone the fact that those
countries share regional names. I mean if SlavoSkopians had a regional
Macedonian name there would be no problem. ( I think you were smarter).
Well, each nation has its own importance measures. You have to respect our
measures if you want us to respect yours.
Istor
Macedonians were always Greeks.