WAR FABLES
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
to help Saddam and the terrorists, yet ignore the 500,000 people
massacred by radical Muslims in the Sudan, ignore the increasing
amount of Iraqis being murdered by the Iranian backed terrorists,
and ignore the butchery and the murder radical Islam is
perpetrating on the entire world in general. Ignoring the evil
radical Islam is perpetrating on the world while "protesting"
America and Israel's defensive retaliations against the wanton
and murderous attacks by the terrorists is what proves
irrefutably those that "march" and "post" for "peace" are really
clandestinely supporting terrorism and unprovoked religious
genocide. It is high time to expose just some of the ridiculous
lies coming from these pro-terrorists:
The Iraqi People Are Resisting the Coalition Fable
In truth, based upon the last AP poll, 83% of all Iraqis do not
want a theocracy in their country. Considering that is precisely
what the Iranian backed terrorists like Zargowai and his ilk are
trying to shove down the throats of the Iraqi people with wanton
butchery and murder, it is clear the majority of the "Iraqi
People" are supporting their Government and they want the
terrorists out just as much as the US led coalition does. I
should also mention that for every Policeman or Iraqi Solider the
goons murder, ten are standing in line to take their fallen
comrade's place. So are the terrorists going to run out of
supplies and moron suicide bombers before Iraq runs out of loyal
citizens - you bet! It is just a matter of time. Moreover, if the
Shiites gain a majority in the new Iraqi Government that will not
produce a de facto theocracy like some of the TP's are trying to
claim. The reason is the approved Iraqi Constitution requires all
three Iraqi factions (the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds) to agree
before any major legislation can be passed - especially any
modification of the Iraqi Constitution. The terrorists and Bid
Laden are desperate to stop the election as they know once it
occurs the UN and all of its member nations will recognize the
new Iraqi Government. That means support will pour in from all
over the world against the terrorists. So the goons are desperate
to discredit or stop the forthcoming Iraqi elections. No doubt
they will be able to intimidate some Iraqis on election day, but
I am told the election may span months if necessary to allow all
Iraqis the opportunity to vote without any intimidation from any
source, including the US led coalition - and the UN observers
will be in Iraq to make sure that happens.
The War in Iraq is Not Justified Fable
In October 2001, our Congress voted unanimously to wage war on
all international terrorists and all those that aid or support
them. Contrary to what the TP's want people to believe, that
resolution of war was NOT restricted just to Al Qaeda. That
resolution of war included all terrorists and all those that aid
or support them. Saddam was not only aiding and supporting
terrorism outside of Iraq, but he was building his own terrorist
army in Iraq! We all have seen the film of the Saddam Fedayeen,
dressed in white Martyr uniforms replete with ski masks, AK -47's
and suicide belts full of explosives high stepping on parade for
Saddam. Those masked goons were not a "girl scout" troop folks.
The TP's want all to ignore the fact that Saddam was building his
own terrorist army and our resolution of war in October 2001
provided complete and unabridged authority for President Bush to
invade Iraq on that basis alone.
Moreover, UN Resolution 1441 called for any or all member nations
to "use all necessary means" to force Saddam to comply with the
provisions of resolution 1441. Saddam was in violation of
resolution 1441 in at least a dozen different ways even if he had
already sent his WMD out of Iraq.
Although the TP's will tell you "there is no evidence of Saddam
and Al Qaeda cooperatively launching attacks" the TP's like to
ignore the fact that our intelligence community has released
evidence of not less than seven high level meetings between
Saddam's intelligence officers and Al Qaeda operatives. So
although we do not possess any "smoking gun" (yet) connecting
Saddam and Al Qaeda with attacks on the free world, we must
wonder if there were no cooperative operations between Saddam's
regime and Al Qaeda then why did they meet together not less than
seven times? If they were not going to work together one meeting
would have sufficed. So what were they doing together those other
six meetings - baking cookies for Uday?
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
In 1998 the UN inspectors cataloged and tagged tons of WMD in
Iraq, and tagged proscribed missiles and Biological Weapon Labs
as well. So Saddam clearly possessed WMD as late as 1998 and what
he did with them will soon be revealed by some of Saddam's
cabinet. The CIA released hard evidence that right before the war
Saddam moved his WMD into Syria and Lebanon via ambulances and
other vehicles. We shall soon find out if that report is
corroborated by Teric Aziz - who is making a deal for his life
and will (has already) spill the beans on WMD.
President Bush Lied About Saddam's Threat Fable
One of the most hilarious and outright lies coming from the TP's
is the one that claims President Bush said we needed to liberate
Iraq because Saddam represented an imminent threat due to his
WMD. Nothing could be further from the truth. In truth, what
President Bush said precisely in his speech advocating the
removal of Saddam and the liberation of the Iraqi people, was
that "we want to remove Saddam *before* he becomes an imminent
threat." President Bush clearly said that Saddam WAS NOT an
imminent threat, but because of his history, and his building of
a terrorist army, and his support of terrorism outside of Iraq,
he would become an imminent threat to the free world if Saddam
was allowed to continue his normal course of policy. President
Bush did not want to wait for another 911-type attack or Mushroom
clouds to start to appear over US Cities before he removed a
sworn enemy, who, by the way, openly and publicly declared war on
the USA, Britain and Israel on December 27, 2000, just ten short
months prior to the 911 massacres and long before President Bush
finally took Congress's direction to remove Saddam from power.
(Congress originally approved the removal of Saddam by military
force in 1998 under Bill Clinton. The Iraqi Liberation Act was
passed by a Democrat Congress, YEARS before President Bush took
office - so much for those lies that President Bush had ulterior
motives to remove Saddam, or that the removal of Saddam was based
upon faulty intelligence. If the intelligence was faulty on Iraq,
it was faulty initially during the Clinton administration).
Iraq is a Quagmire Fable
Before the liberation of Iraq experts forecasted that we would
lose at least ten thousand dead soldiers just to take Baghdad
(upwards to 100,000 dead if Saddam used Chemical or Biological
weapons) and another 5000 dead soldiers *per month* just to hold
Iraq until new elections could be held. Instead, President Bush
liberated 50 million people, turned two hostile nations into
allies (Afghanistan and Iraq) and he did it all with fewer than
1500 KIA and accident casualties combined. In contrast, when the
Democrats were running the Vietnam war, they managed to lose much
more than 1500 dead *per week!* Not to mention all previous wars
in which such a small amount of expected casualties suffered was
hailed as a great victory. General Eisenhower, as an example, was
expected to lose 70% of his invading force during the Normandy
Invasion, but instead he only lost about 25%. His 25% casualties
were hailed by the allies and the American people as the greatest
victory ever in the history of modern warfare. But that
Eisenhower victory shrinks to mere insignificance compared to the
Bush accomplishments. So far, President Bush has achieved the
greatest military victories with the fewest casualties (both
military and civilian) than any other war, president, or general
in the history of war involving the United Sates. And that is
what the Bush detractors call a "Quagmire?"
Moreover, during each war there are setbacks and enemy victories.
When we were surprised by the Battle of the Bulge, did everyone
call for the resignation of General Eisenhower, or the
impeachment of President Roosevelt? When the Japanese killed
20,000 Americans when we tried to take a single Island, did
anyone say General MacArthur should resign and that our war in
the Pacific was a "Quagmire?" When the Chinese invaded North
Korea and sent our forces in full retreat, did anyone ask for
President Truman's resignation or demand that General MacArthur
be fired? When General Montgomery failed to take Cahn as
promised, or launched his infamous invasion failure in Holland
dubbed "Market Garden," did the Brits call his failures a
"Quagmire?" When President Lincoln suffered the defeat at
Fredericksburg, did the American people call for his resignation
and call the war of the rebellion a "Quagmire?" True American and
Brit patriots already know it is resolve that wins wars, and some
defeats are inevitable regardless of how many capable or
intelligent Generals we might have.
War is a work in progress. Its events are fluid, and the enemy
might do anything and will always attempt to do what is
unexpected. It is impossible to fight a defensive war and win.
When we defend without counter attacking we will automatically
lose the battle and eventually the war - we cannot circle our
HumVees and hide in compounds. There will always be setbacks and
surprises in war especially when we are on the offensive. No
General in history has been able to consult a crystal ball and
thereby know in advance which or what tactics the enemy is going
to use in the future. The TP's demand that Secretary Rumsfield
must know in advance what the enemy might or might not do or
perpetrate is utterly ridiculous. We must realize that all we can
hope to accomplish in war is to win more battles than we lose -
yes we will lose some battles, and losing battles and suffering
casualties is as much a part of war as is the slinking shadow of
utter brutality that follows war closely.
Voting Machines Were Rigged Fable
How do you rig a simple calculator? DUH! Voting machines are
simple calculators, when a red button is pushed as an example, a
vote is cast for the red side. When a blue button is pushed or a
blue lever is pulled, a vote is cast for the blue side. The
calculators are not programable outside of their prime functions,
not connected to the internet, and both Democrats and Republican
representatives collectively inspected each voting machine and
signed off on an inspection document certifying the machine
worked as represented. In many cases' hundreds of trial votes
were tested on each machine, and those that failed to record or
malfunctioned were taken off line and repaired. Moreover, unless
someone had a crystal ball and knew how many votes would be cast
for each candidate, it would be impossible to rig a calculator to
malfunction in anyone's favor. I should also mention that
hundreds of Congresspersons, Governors, and dozens of lesser
politicians were also elected from these very simple machines and
not one loser has contested the results in the entire nation!
Even John Kerry and the Democrats are not claiming any rigged
voting machines! Since none of those that are trying their best
to further the fable the voting machines were rigged can produce
even a single rigged machine, or explain how a simple calculator
can be rigged, only the drooling idiots of the world are stupid
enough to believe such obvious hype coming from the likes of
those that are just trying to find excuses for their failure to
muster enough votes to elect the traitor Hanoi John Kerry.
John Kerry Told the Truth in the Debates Fable
In truth, if you bother to check factscheck.org, *everything*
Kerry claimed and promised was a bald face lie! I cannot find a
single promise or statement made by Hanoi John Kerry that was
true. If you can find *any* truth Kerry told during the recent
campaign, please post it here and I will prove it was a lie.
President Bush is Stupid Fable
President Bush is a graduate from Yale and Harvard, and his
military IQ test produced a much higher score than John Kerry's
IQ score. Moreover, President Bush's IQ results scored in the top
5% of all that ever took those tests IN THE WORLD! Based upon
President Bush's IQ scores, apparently, President Bush is the
smartest President in our history (his test scores far exceed
Bill Clinton's, Carter's, Regan's and especially exceed by far
John Kennedy's). People do have a history of underestimating
President Bush, and that is just one of the reasons he keeps
winning.
Americans are Stupid Fable
Americans possess college degrees at a 3 to 1 margin over
Europeans. I lived in Europe for seven years and I assure you
that in general Americans are far more intelligent, creative,
ambitious and resourceful in comparison to Europeans. In fact
most Americans that have lived in Europe find many Europeans lazy
and quite misinformed about America and Americans. No wonder all
the smart Europeans, Asians and Africans send their sons and
daughters to American universities.
The Entire Muslim World will Rise Up Against America Fable
When President Bush invaded Afghanistan, the radical Muslim
clerics howled and screamed for "martyrs" to come forth and
commit suicide to kill Americans. The same howling occurred when
President Bush liberated Iraq. Yet all terrorists, including the
crazies that are willing to butcher themselves just to murder,
number only about 20,000 - and those numbers are dwindling fast
thanks to the US forces. In addition, radical Muslim clerics are
finally being arrested in their native lands for advocating
murder and sedition, and Madrases that teach "murder all
non-Muslims" are being shut down, and terrorist funding is
disappearing faster than a Palestinian leader's bank account.
What most that spins this fable do not want their readers to know
is even if millions of Muslims did rise up to fight against the
free world, who would feed or arm them? The only two rogue
nations left that are stupid enough to support radical Islam are
Iran and Syria, and they can barely feed their own populations,
not to mention support an army in the field for any length of
time, especially against a modern American Army. North Korea is
another example. North Korea is reported to have the third
largest standing Army in the world, but North Korea does not have
the food nor other supplies to support that Army in the field for
more than one single week! The USA on the other hand, under a
national emergency edict, could muster at least a 30 million man
Army, and not only feed them, but equip each soldier with state
of the art equipment and supplies. Simply put, Radical Islam does
not have a chance. It is just a matter of time before terrorism
as we know it is defeated.
Terrorist Armies Cannot Be Defeated Fable
In truth, history proves just the opposite is true! Even during
the American Revolution our militias lost every battle against
the British until General Von Stuben was hired by General
Washington to turn our rabble into a Regular Army. The Mexican
Bandits/Terrorists never won their revolution, the Bolo Bolo and
Huk terrorists lost their war, the Confederate Guerillas,
Quantrel and his ilk were destroyed or captured, the American
Indians lost all of their wars and they were perhaps the best
raiders or terrorists the world had ever seen at that time, the
Werewolves Nazi terrorists that continued to use Guerrilla
attacks on the allies after Nazi Germany surrendered were all
destroyed or captured, the Basque, IRA, and their ilk have never
accomplished their goals in the past 80 years of murder, the Viet
Cong, although 500,000 strong and supplied by the USSR were all
but annihilated after the 1968 Tet offensive by the US led allied
forces, the Mafia in the USA has been all but turned into the
Girl Scouts, etc . . . etc . . .
Without the complete and total backing of a super power Guerrilla
tactics are doomed to failure, and even with the backing of the
super power the Guerillas are only as successful as the resolve
of the Super Power to continue to support them.
Radical Islamist terrorists and those nations that aid or support
them are doomed - they are just too stupid to know it yet - but
you can be sure our Soldiers are and will convince them.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Danzig
> WAR FABLES
>
> © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
>
> I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
> the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
> to help Saddam and the terrorists, yet ignore the 500,000 people
> massacred by radical Muslims in the Sudan, ignore the increasing
> amount of Iraqis being murdered by the Iranian backed terrorists,
> and ignore the butchery and the murder radical Islam is
> perpetrating on the entire world in general.
>
How about a lie detetctor on your dubious sources Douggie??...MORE CRAP!
Danzig
> Ignoring the evil
> radical Islam is perpetrating on the world while "protesting"
> America and Israel's defensive retaliations against the wanton
> and murderous attacks by the terrorists is what proves
> irrefutably those that "march" and "post" for "peace" are really
> clandestinely supporting terrorism and unprovoked religious
> genocide.
>
fued all over again.
Danzig
Danzig
> WAR FABLES
>
> © Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
>
> I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
> the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
> to help Saddam and the terrorists,
That's Doug BLACK and WHITE...nothing in between!
>
Bill McCarty
Your lengthy screed can be demolished line for line, chapter and
verse, Douggie. But I don't wish to give it any more attention than it
deserves, so let me address just ONE of your points.
Quote:
> Without the complete and total backing of a super power Guerrilla
> tactics are doomed to failure, and even with the backing of the
> super power the Guerillas are only as successful as the resolve
> of the Super Power to continue to support them.
What super power was behind the guerilla force that drove the French
out of Algeria ? What superpower was behind the IRA in their fight for the
Independence of Ireland after 600 years of British rule ? Analysts have
concluded that the only thing a guerilla force must do to win is to
SURVIVE. Israel has been fighting for 50 years to defeat the Palestinians
and have achieved neither victory nor peace nor even security, as Israelis
exit the country in increasing numbers. What super power has sustained the
Palestinians in their 50 year struggle for justice ? A handful of
Bolshevik guerilla fighters grabbed and dominated the largest country in the
world from a well equipped, well trained, massive Tsarist army. Did any
super power support the Bolsheviks ? No. On the contrary, several world
powers, including the US, sent troops to Russia in an attempt to suppress
the rebels and save the Russian monarchy. The guerilla forces of North
Vietnam kicked our collective butts, and despite your ludicrous claim of a
US victory in Vietnam, Saigon is now named Ho Chi Minh City.
Mao Zegong was a guerilla leader in his fight against the Japanese.
He then turned his forces against the nationalist army of Chang Kai-Chek and
kicked their butts all the way to Formosa. Then he fought Americans to a
bloody stand- still in Korea. What super power was behind him ? Not One !
the Viet Minh guerillas kicked the French out of Indo China. The Tsar of
Russia tried to suppress the Chechen rebels and failed. The Chechens
survived and several generations later they are stronger than ever. What
super power has sustained them ? Not one ! Last, but not least, are the
Afghan rebels. They kicked the Brits out in the 19th century, and the
Russians out in the 20th century. And they did it without serious help from
anyone. Our stupidity may keep us there a while longer. But make no mistake,
the US is leaving Afghanistan. We don't belong there and. they don't want us
there. It will take no super power to drive us out. The Afghans will
manage that quite well by themselves, just as they've been doing for a
thousand years, in wars with the Greeks the Persians and the Mongol hordes.
They have NEVER lost a war.
So your dismissal of the Iraqi insurgents is just a tad premature
Douggie. Any time an aggressor nation has employed tactics and strategy
which has given rise to an indigenous, determined, and angry rebel force -
that war has INVARIABLY been lost. Does anyone doubt that by our stupidity
in invading Iraq we have created a monster which threatens to devour us ?
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
to help Saddam and the terrorists, yet ignore the 500,000 people
massacred by radical Muslims in the Sudan, ignore the increasing
amount of Iraqis being murdered by the Iranian backed terrorists,
and ignore the butchery and the murder radical Islam is
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:oPCAd.28876$KO5.23926@clgrps13...
Doug Says: Refute what you call crap then. Obviously you
cannot. We both know the above post is true - if not you could
refute it.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
to help Saddam and the terrorists, yet ignore the 500,000 people
massacred by radical Muslims in the Sudan, ignore the increasing
amount of Iraqis being murdered by the Iranian backed terrorists,
and ignore the butchery and the murder radical Islam is
perpetrating on the entire world in general. Ignoring the evil
radical Islam is perpetrating on the world while "protesting"
America and Israel's defensive retaliations against the wanton
and murderous attacks by the terrorists is what proves
irrefutably those that "march" and "post" for "peace" are really
clandestinely supporting terrorism and unprovoked religious
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:PQCAd.28877$KO5.19848@clgrps13...
Doug says: Read above, if protesters are really against war they
would be against all war, not just against defensive wars
launched by America and Israel.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Voting Machines Were Rigged Fable
Americans are Stupid Fable
The Entire Muslim World will Rise Up Against America Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
>> Voting Machines Were Rigged Fable
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:DYCAd.28878$KO5.27144@clgrps13...
> these are related to war???how so???
>>
Doug Says: Stop top posting and think about it.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>>
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
>>
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:O_DAd.35101$dv1.33103@edtnps89...
Doug Says: Define in between.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>>
Danzig
you have SOME credibility
Danzig
>
> Doug says: Read above, if protesters are really against war they
> would be against all war, not just against defensive wars
> launched by America and Israel.
>
> Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
defensive wars???what a bundle of horse manure that is!
Danzig
>>>I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled
>>>by the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that
>>>"march" to help Saddam and the terrorists,
>>
>>
>>That's Doug BLACK and WHITE...nothing in between!
>
>
> Doug Says: Define in between.
Danzig
>
>>these are related to war???how so???
>>
> Doug Says: Stop top posting and think about it.
>
Danzig
every corner of that country,,,or does he take in all the BULL SHIT lies
that this adminstiration feeds us....THE LATTER methinks.
Oh Boy it is great...Dougie will tell us what it's like to live on the
moon soon...He has "inside information" there as well. Or is that out
house information??
DGVREIMAN
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Without the complete and total backing of a super power Guerrilla
tactics are doomed to failure, and even with the backing of the
super power the Guerillas are only as successful as the resolve
of the Super Power to continue to support them.
Radical Islamist terrorists and those nations that aid or support
them are doomed - they are just too stupid to know it yet - but
you can be sure our Soldiers are and will convince them.
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Bill McCarty" <bm...@pa.net> wrote in message
news:orHAd.1163$uN2.4...@monger.newsread.com...
>
>
> Your lengthy screed can be demolished line for line,
> chapter and
> verse, Douggie. But I don't wish to give it any more attention
> than it
> deserves, so let me address just ONE of your points.
Doug Says: You cannot demolish anything I say ever Billy - you
have been trying for years and you lose each time - that is why
you are only trying to refute one quote - which you will, of
course, fail to do.
>
> Quote:
>
>> Without the complete and total backing of a super power
>> Guerrilla
>> tactics are doomed to failure, and even with the backing of
>> the
>> super power the Guerillas are only as successful as the
>> resolve
>> of the Super Power to continue to support them.
>
> What super power was behind the guerilla force that drove
> the French
> out of Algeria ? '
Doug Says: Nothing *drove* the French out of Algeria Billy -
France did not lose a war to terrorists? Are you daft? The
French willingly gave Algeria their independence as they gave
dozens of countries after WWII without a shot being fired.
Terrorism lost in Algeria, peaceful protest and negotiations won
their independence.
What superpower was behind the IRA in their fight for the
> Independence of Ireland after 600 years of British rule ?
Doug Says: When the IRA stopped their murder, and sent
representatives to negotiate with the British then and only then
did they gain their independence. The IRA did not defeat the
British Army you screaming loon! As a case in point the present
IRA refused to negotiate over Northern Ireland and committed
terrorist acts against Britain for 50 years, and they gained
absolutely nothing. The Basque in Spain the same. If the Irish
People had not supported the IRA, and had taken a purely peaceful
political protest and sent representiaves to the British
Parliament in the 20th Century, they would have saved many an
Irishman's life and accomplished precisely what they wanted.
Terrorism gained nothing for the Irish - except misery when
misery was not necessary.
Analysts have
> concluded that the only thing a guerilla force must do to win
> is to
> SURVIVE.
Doug Says: Giggle, which "Analysts" are that - Mo, Larry and
Curly? HAHAHAHAHA. A Guerilla force needs (1) munitions, (2)
support from the locals (3) weapons (4) recruits, many many
recruits and (5) they must maintain those four items forever, and
stop the superior force from infiltrating their ranks - which is
impossible. Terrorism as a military force is scorned and is
considered an automatic failure in respect to gaining anything.
The radical Muslims only have Iran and Syria, and soon they will
stop supporting them.
Israel has been fighting for 50 years to defeat the Palestinians
> and have achieved neither victory nor peace nor even security,
> as Israelis
> exit the country in increasing numbers.
Doug Says: Where do you get this nonsense Billy? Michael Moore
comic books? Israel was attacked with a full scale war not less
than five times by the Arab league and Israel won each war.
Israel is not trying to "defeat" anyone, just protect their
nation and citizens from wanton genocide. The Pedestrians, who
swore to drive Israel into the sea and send all Jews to America,
are now seen panhandling at the gates of the Israeli wall for
handouts. Moreover, Israelis will leave Israel only because of
opportunity somewhere else, especially in America as our economy
is booming unlike the rest of the world.
What super power has sustained the
> Palestinians in their 50 year struggle for justice ?
Doug Says: The combined Arab world has contributed billions of
dollars to the Palestinians, most of which was stolen by their
leaders. The Palestinians exist only by the grace and will of
the Israelis and the Americans.
A handful of
> Bolshevik guerilla fighters grabbed and dominated the largest
> country in the
> world from a well equipped, well trained, massive Tsarist
> army. Did any
> super power support the Bolsheviks ? No. On the contrary,
> several world
> powers, including the US, sent troops to Russia in an attempt
> to suppress
> the rebels and save the Russian monarchy.
Doug Says: Duh, Billy, I hate to tell you this, but the USA did
not send any troops to Russia to fight the Bolsheviks! DUH!
Moreover, you are taking about a full scale revolution and civil
war - not terrorism! Please try to stay focused on the issue,
try harder.
The guerilla forces of North
> Vietnam kicked our collective butts, and despite your
> ludicrous claim of a
> US victory in Vietnam, Saigon is now named Ho Chi Minh City.
Doug Says: Doug Says: Please Billy, even your warped and
uniformed knowledge of history should know that our forces forced
the
Communists to sign the Paris Peace Accords, which were tantamount
to a Communist surrender, then our forces left Vietnam completely
victorious. It was not until YEARS later that Saigon fell, long
after our troops left. Moreover, the reason Saigon fell is after
the Watergate debacle, the screaming liberals that took over
Congress refused to comply with the provisions of the Paris Peace
accords thereby forcing Saigon to fall. Of course the Viet Cong
were defeated, almost annihilated, even their own leaders admit
that in their books. (General Giap as just one example).
Doug Says: The French are not and never were any kind of power
in the 20th Century. Everyone defeats the French - hell the
common French greeting handshake for French Toops was both arms
extended over their heads. Regardless, terrorism failed in
Algeria. Peaceful demonstrations is what won the will of the
French people. Moreover, Ireland gained its independence through
political negoiations, and the IRA terrorists who refuse to
negoiate have gained absolutely nothing except failure, along
with the Basque.
The Israelis have been fighting the
> Palestinian insurgents for 40 years and have gained neither
> peace nor
> security, and Israeli's are fleeing the country.
Doug says: The Palestians and their friends have launced not
less than five wars against Israel and have lost each war, and
the goons have declared genocide against the Israelis and swore
to drive them in the sea - now they are standing around at the
gates of the wall asking Israelis for handouts becuase their
leadership has stolen them blind - and you call that a victory?
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
For a PX commando
> who's supposed to know something about war, you've been
> neglecting
> your education Douggie.
Doug Says: I think the only PX commando around here is you
Billy. Terrorism never wins.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
Mao Zegong was a guerilla leader in his fight against the
Japanese. He then turned his forces against the nationalist army
of Chang Kai-Chek and > kicked their butts all the way to
Formosa. Then he fought Americans to a bloody stand- still in
Korea. What super power was behind him ? Not One !
Doug Says: Billy, please now, Mao's Army was a full fledged
Army, not a group of terrorists. Civil war and Revolution is not
terrorism Billy - any ten cent dictionary will provide you with
the proper definitions if your knowledge in this regard is that
limited.
> the Viet Minh guerillas kicked the French out of Indo China.
Doug Says: The Viet Minh was a regular Army you blithering
moron.
The Tsar of
> Russia tried to suppress the Chechen rebels and failed. The
> Chechens
> survived and several generations later they are stronger than
> ever. What
> super power has sustained them ? Not one !
The Chechens are the ones that have not won Billy, not the
Russians. The present Government in Chechnya is loyal to Russia,
not the other way around. The Chechens have not defeated the
Russian Army, all they can manage to defeat is hundreds of
innocent school children. You claim that because some gaggle of
murders manage to murder innocent people somehow they are winning
a war? Winning means defeating the enemy Billy, or accomplishing
a political objective. The Chechens have done neither.
Last, but not least, are the
> Afghan rebels. They kicked the Brits out in the 19th century,
> and the
> Russians out in the 20th century.
Doug Says: Are you completely insane? The Brits were never
defeated in Afghanistan, DUH! And the Russians left of their own
free will mostly because they accomplished their mission in
Afghanistan, as did the Israelis in Lebanon. If you seriously
believe the Afghanistan rag tags defeated the Russian Army you
need to up your delusional meds.
And they did it without serious help from
> anyone. Our stupidity may keep us there a while longer. But
> make no mistake,
> the US is leaving Afghanistan. We don't belong there and. they
> don't want us
> there. It will take no super power to drive us out. The
> Afghans will
> manage that quite well by themselves, just as they've been
> doing for a
> thousand years, in wars with the Greeks the Persians and the
> Mongol hordes.
> They have NEVER lost a war.
Doug Says: Since the Afghan people are on our side, and are
against the Taliban, if they win we win. So what is your point
Billy? That the Taliban will defeat the US Army in the fields of
Afghanistan? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - Weeeoooooooo! The Taliban are
history Billy, chump change like most terrorists, especially
radical Muslim terrorists.
>
> So your dismissal of the Iraqi insurgents is just a tad
> premature
> Douggie. Any time an aggressor nation has employed tactics and
> strategy
> which has given rise to an indigenous, determined, and angry
> rebel force -
> that war has INVARIABLY been lost. Does anyone doubt that by
> our stupidity
> in invading Iraq we have created a monster which threatens to
> devour us ?
Doug Says: You are as delusional as you are consumed by hate
against Jews Billy. The terrorists in Iraq do not have a chance,
they are moribund, they just don't know it yet. Further, we are
not fighting an "angry rebel force" we are fighting utter moronic
radical Muslim terrorists that are soooooo stupid they actually
believe what their crime lord Muslim clerics are conning them to
do - kill themselves. Not only will the elections go forward in
Iraq, and the UN will recognize the new Iraqi Government, which
by itself spells the doom of the terrorists, within 24 months we
will start to address the Syria and Iranian problem - which will
really bring the cockroaches out of the dung heap for our
gunners.
You have failed to refute nor even intelligently argue any point
I made Billy, you really need to try harder. Your sophomoric and
feeble attempts to "rewrite history" and turn full armies into
"bands of terrorists" is utter claptrap. Terrorism always fails,
there has not been a single instance in history where terrorism
by itself achieved anything - and no terrorist army has *ever*
defeated any major power army - not ever, not once. If you
disagree, please give me just one example.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
>
>
>
DGVREIMAN
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
>>
>> Doug Says: Refute what you call crap then. Obviously you
>> cannot. We both know the above post is true - if not you
>> could refute it.
>>
>> Doug Grant (Tm)
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:fXKAd.25392$Y72.12695@edtnps91...
> Dougie this is NOT worth wasting my time...taking that time
> would imply you have SOME credibility
Doug Says: What you really mean is you cannot refute anything I
posted. Moreover, if you did not want to waste your time then
why read my post in the first place? Obviously, you are ducking
and hiding.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
news:4YKAd.25398$Y72.10411@edtnps91...
Doug Says: Perhaps you have not heard, the goons attacked
America and its interests not less than ten times before we
retaliated - Israel was attacked by the Arab nations not less
than five times in a full scale war, and suffered its citizens
wantonly murdered for decades before it finally started to fight
back.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
news:AZKAd.25409$Y72.2627@edtnps91...
Doug Says: Define what you mean by "middle ground" in respect to
your claim.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:q_KAd.25415$Y72.25310@edtnps91...
Doug Says: I am sorry to hear that your circuits cannot muster
enough gray matter to answer your question - especially since the
answer is obvious.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
© Copyright 2004 by DGVReiman, all rights reserved.
I am constantly amazed at the outright lies and myths howled by
the pro-terrorists. Especially those pro-terrorists that "march"
to help Saddam and the terrorists, yet ignore the 500,000 people
massacred by radical Muslims in the Sudan, ignore the increasing
amount of Iraqis being murdered by the Iranian backed terrorists,
and ignore the butchery and the murder radical Islam is
perpetrating on the entire world in general. Ignoring the evil
radical Islam is perpetrating on the world while "protesting"
America and Israel's defensive retaliations against the wanton
and murderous attacks by the terrorists is what proves
irrefutably those that "march" and "post" for "peace" are really
clandestinely supporting terrorism and unprovoked religious
genocide. It is high time to expose just some of the ridiculous
lies coming from these pro-terrorists:
The Iraqi People Are Resisting the Coalition Fable
The War in Iraq is Not Justified Fable
Saddam Never Possessed WMD
Americans are Stupid Fable
Doug Grant (Tm)
"
>>
>> Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
>> news:i4LAd.18735$uj2.9363@clgrps12...> Doug has the inside
>> track and KNOWS as if he were ON THE STREETS in
> every corner of that country,,,or does he take in all the BULL
> SHIT lies that this adminstiration feeds us....THE LATTER
> methinks.
>
>
> Oh Boy it is great...Dougie will tell us what it's like to live
> on the moon soon...He has "inside information" there as well.
> Or is that out house information??
Doug Says: So you think everything the embedded reporters are
reporting, all of the Pentagon briefings, the information I am
receiving from my friends that are actually fighting in Iraq, and
the recently elected Bush administration are all lying - and Al
Jeezerea is the only one telling the truth? Did you hang on
every word from Baghdad Bob as well Danzig? HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Danzig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's Doug BLACK and WHITE...nothing in between!
>>>
>>>
>>>Doug Says: Define in between.
>>
>>middle ground ....sometning about which you have NO idea
>
>
> Doug Says: Define what you mean by "middle ground" in respect to
> your claim.
is BLACK
Danzig
>
> Doug Says: Perhaps you have not heard, the goons attacked
> America and its interests not less than ten times before we
> retaliated - Israel was attacked by the Arab nations not less
> than five times in a full scale war, and suffered its citizens
> wantonly murdered for decades before it finally started to fight
> back.
Danzig
> Doug Says: So you think everything the embedded reporters are
> reporting, all of the Pentagon briefings, the information I am
> receiving from my friends that are actually fighting in Iraq, and
> the recently elected Bush administration are all lying - and Al
> Jeezerea is the only one telling the truth?
No but it IS NOT BLACK nad WHITE like yo continue to characterize it.
Danzig
shonen
> Doug Says: Where do you get this nonsense Billy? Michael Moore
> comic books? Israel was attacked with a full scale war not less
> than five times by the Arab league and Israel won each war.
I'll probably regret getting involved with this conversation but attacked 5
times? Now as I recall the Suez Crisis involved France, Britain and Israel
conspiring together. Israel provides the pretext by invading Egypt, Britain
and France intervene to protect (and reclaim) the (recently nationalised)
Suez canal. How does one conspire between three countries to start a war but
have the Arabs start it?
And as for 1967, I remember the time Israel was proud of its pre-emptive
strike. Building mock air fields out in the desert, practising air strikes
for a year before hand, and then the Arabs attack with a massive air strike
on the Egyptian airfields... No, hang on...
Well, I do have to give you 1973. When Egypt attacked the Sinai Peninsula
and Syria attacked the Golan Heights, which were both.... their territory.
So they attacked Israel by attacking their own land. Well, they did start
the war, and there was probably a bombing raid or two on Israel.
Invasion of Lebanon. Well, we all remember the invasion of Israel by Lebanon
don't we. Guess that plan to invade right up to the capital was just a
counter-attack.
> A handful of
> > Bolshevik guerilla fighters grabbed and dominated the largest
> > country in the
> > world from a well equipped, well trained, massive Tsarist
> > army. Did any
> > super power support the Bolsheviks ? No. On the contrary,
> > several world
> > powers, including the US, sent troops to Russia in an attempt
> > to suppress
> > the rebels and save the Russian monarchy.
>
> Doug Says: Duh, Billy, I hate to tell you this, but the USA did
> not send any troops to Russia to fight the Bolsheviks!
I'm afraid, Doug, you'll need to actually read a history book. Yes, the US
army was used to try and crush the Bolsheviks. The reason given was to
protect the war supplies that had been sent to the Russian empire. They were
fairly minor, but there were also the Japanese, the British (there is a good
book about it called "The Day We Almost Bombed Moscow") and the French.
Throw in some rogue Czechs in the wilds of Siberia and it was a fair
alliance. The Brits used weapons of mass destruction as well.
> Doug Says: Doug Says: Please Billy, even your warped and
> uniformed knowledge of history should know that our forces forced
> the
> Communists to sign the Paris Peace Accords, which were tantamount
> to a Communist surrender, then our forces left Vietnam completely
> victorious.
Remind me, who won the Vietnam War?
It was not until YEARS later that Saigon fell, long
> after our troops left. Moreover, the reason Saigon fell is after
> the Watergate debacle, the screaming liberals that took over
> Congress refused to comply with the provisions of the Paris Peace
> accords thereby forcing Saigon to fall.
This argument always reminds me of Germnay. You know, how the Germans
complained that they were not defeated in the Great War, it was the stab in
the back by the lefties at home that did it. Guess the US army didn't win
that one either.
> Doug Says: The French are not and never were any kind of power
> in the 20th Century. Everyone defeats the French
Apart from the Germans in WW1. The French weren't any kind of power? Where
do you get this stuff?
> Last, but not least, are the
> > Afghan rebels. They kicked the Brits out in the 19th century,
> > and the
> > Russians out in the 20th century.
>
> Doug Says: Are you completely insane? The Brits were never
> defeated in Afghanistan, DUH!
I guess the time a whole British army was wiped out with 1 survivor making
it back to India wasn't a defeat?
> Doug Says: You are as delusional as you are consumed by hate
> against Jews Billy. The terrorists in Iraq do not have a chance,
> they are moribund, they just don't know it yet.
I suspect there may be someone else around here how don't know they're
defeated yet.
Serious question. I'm wondering. What is going to happen after the election?
You know, the terrorists will be defeated after Bagdad falls. Then after
Saddam is caught. Then after a provisional government is put in. Now it is
after elections. What difference is that going to make? The country is still
occupied, the war is going to continue. Well that's my bet. Any views on
what is going to change and why?
Further, we are
> not fighting an "angry rebel force" we are fighting utter moronic
> radical Muslim terrorists
If they are morons, what does that say about the US troops getting killed by
them. Uber-morons?
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Please Danzig, the Saudi Government was not involved
in attacking the USA - no more than the Jordanian Government is
involved with the Jordanian goon Zargowi. Where a terrorist was
born has nothing to do with his acts of terrorism. DUH!
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Your opinion that everything the Bush administrations
says is a lie is delusional and ridiculous.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Then pray, tell us how you can discern the truth from
the fiction in respect to all these reports? Crystal balls?
Chicken bones?
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
>> Doug Says: What you really mean is you cannot refute anything
>> I
>> posted. Moreover, if you did not want to waste your time then
>> why read my post in the first place? Obviously, you are
>> ducking and hiding.
>>
>> Doug Grant (Tm)
>>
"Danzig" <tya...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:6bMAd.25909$Y72.5772@edtnps91...
>I cherish each new post you vomit out. Keeps me laughing all day
>long!!
Doug Says: You are top posting again - just when I thought you
were trained you shit in your mouth again. Like I said,
obviously you are ducking and hiding. Your claims are childlike
and ridiculous, and you cannot refute a word I say because we all
know I only post the truth.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
"shonen" <sho...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:cr0hoi$v6p$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
>> Doug Says: Where do you get this nonsense Billy? Michael
>> Moore
>> comic books? Israel was attacked with a full scale war not
>> less
>> than five times by the Arab league and Israel won each war.
>
> I'll probably regret getting involved with this conversation
> but attacked 5
> times? Now as I recall the Suez Crisis involved France, Britain
> and Israel
> conspiring together. Israel provides the pretext by invading
> Egypt, Britain
> and France intervene to protect (and reclaim) the (recently
> nationalised)
> Suez canal. How does one conspire between three countries to
> start a war but
> have the Arabs start it?
Doug Says: Your recolection is very faulty. You should check
some history. Egypt seized the Suez and refused to allow Israeli
ships to pass. That was an act of war. Here are the details
about the 1973 wanton agression by the Arabs, and the
establishment of the present borders by Israel:
ISRAEL’S LEGAL BORDERS
I am amazed at those coming out of the woodwork again (Josh and
company) insisting that Israel is not entitled to the borders it
presently maintains, or what is better know as the post 1974
agreement borders. (I am not talking about territory outside of
those borders in which Israel may travel from time to time on
defensive retaliatory raids against radical Muslim murder bombers
and their terrorist leaders).
Josh even we so far as to claim there "were no borders mentioned
in the 1974 agreements to end the Yom Kippur war." There were
really several agreements surrounding this 1974 agreement between
the legal owners of the land in question, and the following
information from Encyclopedia.com of course proves Josh and his
pro-terrorist friends irrefutably wrong.
Although the actual borders Israel maintains has been moot since
the terrorists have proclaimed they intend to continue to murder
Jews until they have occupied all of Israel, which has been their
stated purpose since 1948, regardless of any land or state deals
Israel gives to the Palestinians, I thought at least I would
expose the lie that somehow Israel is "illegally occupying
Palestinian land." Nothing could be further from the truth.
In fact, most of the middle eastern nations, including Iran,
Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Lybia and the rest maintain present
day borders that were obtained as a result of war. Now Josh and
friends want Israel to give back all lands they occupied because
they were attacked by the Arabs, but Josh does not want any of
the Arab nations to give back any land they acquired due to war
they sometimes started! So I for one am growing weary of all this
hypocrisy coming from the Palestinians in respect to giving back
land that Israel legally obtained.
According to the Palestinians, if a country is attacked and it
drives off its attackers, it must give back any land that it
acquired for defending itself. But if an Arab country attacks and
thereby acquires some land, that land belongs to the attacking
nation legally. Sure guys, sure it does. Do the boys in the
Mosque actually buy all this bullshit, or do they need to spend
some Hookah time before you try and hype this utter nonsense.
Below is an article that proves there were borders involved in
the 1974 agreement between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, the USSR
and the USA....many of them.
Agreements Ending the Yom Kippur War 19731973 War Agreements
-- Scroll Down For Menu Or Search -- Palestine Facts Home Page
Geography and Population Basics Early History of Palestine
Through World
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of
Israel (1947-1949) Israel 1948 Through 1967 Israel 1967 Through
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Israel 1991 Through Present Frequently Asked Questions about
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Frequently Asked Questions about this website Search Palestine
Facts
What agreements were negotiated to end the Yom Kippur War?
War was ended on October 25, 1973 by intervention of the US and
Soviet Union who
instigated the UN Security Council series of resolutions 338-340.
On November 11, 1973 Egypt and Israel formally signed a
cease-fire agreement in
a tent erected at the "Kilometre 101" checkpoint on the
Cairo-Suez road at the
edge of the Israeli-occupied enclave west of the Suez Canal. This
was the first
major agreement between Israel and an Arab country since the
signature of the
1949 armistice agreements.
In December 1973 the United States and the Soviet Union made a
joint effort to
bring about meaningful Arab-Israeli negotiations by inviting
Egypt, Jordan,
Syria and Israel to a Peace Conference in Geneva on the basis of
the UN Security
Council's call for a "just and durable peace" in Resolution 338.
The conference
was also recognized by UN Security Council Resolution 344.
However, Syria
refused to attend (and the PLO was not invited) resulting in the
conference
being adjourned inconclusively on January 9, 1974.
US Secretary of State Kissinger was able to mount a direct
diplomatic effort
with Israel and the opposing Arab states, the first fruit of
which was the
signature by Egypt and Israel on January 18, 1974, of an initial
military
disengagement agreement. This agreement was called the Sinai
Separation of
Forces Agreement (later known as Sinai I). Under its terms Israel
withdrew its
forces from the areas west of the Suez Canal held since the
October 1973
cease-fire and also pulled back several miles on the Sinai front
east of the
canal, where three roughly parallel security zones were created,
each about six
miles wide, for Egyptian, UN, and Israeli buffer zones. The UN
Zone was occupied
by the Second United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) created by UN
Security
Council Resolution 340.
For Egypt the general effect of the agreement was that it
regained control of
all Egyptian territory west of the canal and also the whole of
the eastern bank.
Israel, although withdrawing 12-13 miles east of the canal, was
left in control
of the rest of Sinai, including Sharm el Sheikh commanding the
Straits of Tiran.
Further intense "shuttle" diplomacy by Dr. Kissinger resulted in
the signature
on May 31, 1974 of the Agreement on Disengagement by Syria and
Israel covering
the Golan front, ending 81 days of artillery duels. The general
effect of the
agreement was that Israel withdrew from all the territory it had
captured in the
October 1973 war as well as from some areas occupied since the
1967 war,
including the town of Quneitra. Limited-force zones were
established on either
side of a central buffer zone in which contingents of the UN
Disengagement
Observer Force (UNDOF) were stationed, after being authorized by
UN Security
Council Resolution 350, also dated May 31, 1974. The agreement
provided that
Syrian civilians who had fled during the hostilities would be
able to return to
the areas vacated by Israel and Syrian administration restored.
Since this May
1974 Syrian-Israeli disengagement agreement, no further changes
have been
negotiated as regards the territorial position on the Golan
Heights.
As regards the Sinai front, however, a second Egyptian-Israeli
disengagement
agreement, the Sinai Interim Agreement (Sinai II) was formally
signed in Geneva
on September 4, 1975 , again after protracted diplomatic efforts
by Dr.
Kissinger. Under this agreement Israel withdrew its forces by a
further 12 to 26
miles and the vacated area became the new UN buffer zone, with
the old buffer
zone being added to the existing Egyptian limited-forces zone. As
part of this
general withdrawal Israeli forces moved back to the eastern end
of the Mitla and
Giddi passes and a new Israeli limited-forces zone was
established adjacent to
the vacated area on the eastern side. Israel also vacated the Abu
Rudeis and Ras
Sudar oilfields on the Gulf of Suez (by February 1976), together
with a narrow
coastal strip running northwards to Egyptian-controlled territory
south of Suez
(this strip being demilitarized and placed under joint
UN-Egyptian
administration).
For the Israelis, Prime Minister Rabin saw Sinai II primarily as
a measure meant
to please the Americans. He signed Sinai II, not so much as an
act of
Egyptian-Israeli reconciliation, but in order to strengthen the
US-Israel
relationship, to buttress the new Egyptian pro-American
orientation, and
introduce a wedge in the Egyptian-Syrian war coalition.
Other features of the Egyptian-Israeli agreement were:
Both sides agreed to:
refrain from the use or threat of force or military blockade
observe the ceasefire scrupulously
renew the UNEF mandate annually
Egypt agreed to allow non-military cargoes moving to and from
Israel in
non-Israeli vessels to pass through the Suez Canal
The United States would provide up to 200 civilian technicians to
man
electronic early-warning stations in the area of the Mitla and
Giddi passes.
Sources and additional reading on this topic:
The 1973 Yom Kippur War
The October 1973 War
Sensors in the Sinai
Arab-Israeli Confrontation, 1967-73
The Long Road to "Peace" With Egypt
Yitzhak Rabin and Israeli National Security
-- Scroll Down For Menu Or Search -- Palestine Facts Home Page
Geography and Population Basics Early History of Palestine
Through World
War I and British Mandate The British Mandate Period Independence
of
Israel (1947-1949) Israel 1948 Through 1967 Israel 1967 Through
1991
Israel 1991 Through Present Frequently Asked Questions about
Palestine
Frequently Asked Questions about this website Search Palestine
Facts
© 2002 palestinefacts.org. All rights reserved worldwide.
>
> And as for 1967, I remember the time Israel was proud of its
> pre-emptive
> strike. Building mock air fields out in the desert, practising
> air strikes
> for a year before hand, and then the Arabs attack with a
> massive air strike
> on the Egyptian airfields... No, hang on...
Doug Says: Once again, your memory fails you miserably. Here
are the facts about the first war of aggression launched by the
Arabs against Israel:
ISRAEL’S BEGINNING
I have been reading so many distortions of the conflict between
Israel and the Palestinians that I thought I would post some real
"honest" history of the situation. I have extracted this
information from an independent source (Encyclopedia.com) so
neither side can claim any bias.
I realize it is difficult for us all to sift thought all the
rhetoric and propaganda that seems to be flowing freely on this
newsgroup lately. Yet this information will really help if you
are sincere about finding out the cause and effect of the
conflict between the Arabs and Israel.
Home > article
Israel
Subsection: History
See also: Israel Geography
"Beginnings of the Israeli State The state of Israel is the
culmination of nearly a century of activity in Zionism .
Following World War I, Great Britain received (1922) Palestine
as a mandate from the League of Nations. The struggle by Jews for
a Jewish state in Palestine had begun in the late 19th cent. and
had become quite active by the 1930s and 40s. The militant
opposition of the Arabs to such a state and the inability of the
British to solve the problem eventually led to the establishment
(1947) of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine,
which devised a plan to divide Palestine into a Jewish state, an
Arab state, and a small internationally administered zone
including Jerusalem. The General Assembly adopted the
recommendations on Nov. 29, 1947. The Jews accepted the plan; the
Arabs rejected it. As the British began to withdraw early in
1948, Arabs and Jews prepared for war. On May 14, 1948, when the
British high commissioner for Palestine departed, the state of
Israel was proclaimed at Tel Aviv. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt,
and Iraq invaded Israel, as most Palestinian Arabs fled from
Jewish territory. By the time armistice agreements were reached
(Jan., 1949), Israel had increased its holdings by about
one-half. Jordan annexed the Arab-held area adjoining its
territory, and Egypt occupied a coastal strip in the southwest,
including Gaza."
End of excerpt:
Doug’s Commentary: As we see from above, and contrary to the
Palestinian propagandists that have been howling that Israel
"seized" land from the Arabs, we find that the League of Nations
after World War I gave the entire area of Palestine to Great
Britain NOT to the Jews. Then Great Britain recommended to the
United Nations that two separate states be established on *their*
land, one Jewish, one Palestinian (with a small internationally
administered zone that included Jerusalem.) That would have
provided a separate state for all of the people of the area, and
a way to keep them from killing each other. The United Nations
General Assembly adopted this plan on November 29, 1947. However,
if you remember the Palestinian constitution, they *ignore* all
UN Resolutions they do not agree with, and adopt all UN
Resolutions they agree with.
The Palestinians clearly did not want their own state, refused
the land offered them (as they did not own it in the first place)
and they believed they could destroy Israel and seize all of the
land as soon as the Brits left the area. The conclusions here are
obvious:
1. The Palestinians are lying about owning the land that Israel
is occupying. The Palestinians might have been squatting on some
of that land prior to WWI, but then so were the Israelis long
before the Palestinians.
2. The Palestinians are lying about Israel being the aggressor.
3. The Palestinians were the ones (along with their Arab allies)
that initiated a war against Israel to seize land that did not
belong to them, not the other way around.
4. The Palestinians are not the "freedom fighters" the Israelis
are the ones fighting to keep their rightful property and state.
The Palestinians are the aggressors, and the ones that ignored
the will of the entire world assembly and tried to use war to
seize lands that clearly did not belong to them.
5. Israel is not occupying Palestinian lands. The Palestinians
*refused* the land that was offered to them and started a war
against Israel to determine the true ownership of the land in
question. Since they initiated and lost the war, the land clearly
belongs to the Israelis and not the Palestinians. This includes
all of the land the Brits offered to compose two separate states,
which the Palestinians rejected and wanted a war to determine the
true ownership of the land.
6. Considering the circumstances of how the Israelis were forced
to fight for the land they have, it is unjust to try and make
them return all of it just like the war never occurred. Would
have the Palestinians returned the land to the Israelis if they
had won the war instead of the Israelis? Of course not. But
today, the Palestinians want to have their cake and eat it too.
They lost the war, refused to take the land that was offered
them, but now want the world to think they are being "occupied"
on a land they never owned, nor have any real rights to claim.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Here is the account of the second war of aggression launched by
the Arabs against Israel:
ISRAEL’S SUEZ CONFLICT
This is the second part of a series on the truth about the
Israeli and Palestinian conflict. The following information has
been extracted from "Encyclopedia.com" so as to thwart any howls
of biased information. Please read the following historically
accurate record, and see my commentary below:
"The New Nation
A government was formed at Tel Aviv, with Chaim Weizmann as
president and David Ben-Gurion as prime minister. The capital was
moved (Dec., 1949) to Jerusalem to strengthen Israel's claim to
that city. Following the Lausanne Conference of 1949, Israel
allowed the return of 150,000 Arab refugees, mostly to reunite
families. One major aim of the government was to gather in all
Jews who wished to immigrate to Israel. This led to the 1950 Law
of the Return, which provided for free and automatic citizenship
for all immigrant Jews. Border incidents with Egypt, Syria, and
Jordan continued.Trouble in the Gaza area reached new heights in
the mid-1950s despite UN intervention, and in 1956, Egyptian
President Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal . On Oct. 29, 1956,
Israel made a preemptive attack on Egyptian territory and within
a few days had conquered the Gaza Strip and the Sinai peninsula,
while Britain and France invaded the area of the Suez Canal.
Israel eventually yielded to strong pressure from the United
States, the USSR, and the United Nations and removed its troops
from Sinai in Nov., 1956, and from Gaza by Mar., 1957, as UN
forces were sent to the Sinai and Gaza to keep peace between
Egypt and Israel. Through this war, Israel succeeded in keeping
open its shipping lanes via Elat and the Gulf of Aqaba to the Red
Sea.In 1962, Israel became the scene of the celebrated trial of
Adolf Eichmann . In 1963, Ben-Gurion resigned as prime
minister and was succeeded in that office by Levi Eshkol . Eshkol
had to cope with increased guerrilla incursions into Israel from
Syria and the shelling of Israeli villages by the Syrian army
from the Golan Heights."
End of Excerpts:
Doug’s Commentary:
As we see above, Israel allowed the return of any Palestinians
that wanted to return to their ancestral lands, as long as they
recognized the state of Israel and lived as Israeli citizens. The
Palestinians are lying when they claim they are being denied
their ancestral lands. Moreover, as we read in the first segment
(Israel’s First War) the Palestinians never owned the land in the
first place.
Also note the Arabs continued their war against Israel by using
border attacks, and sapper bombings. The Arabs were still
determined to seize Israeli land for themselves with the use of
war and terrorism. The Arabs were so determined to take the
Israeli land that Egypt actually seized control of the Suez Canal
and tried to blackmail the world into giving the Israeli land to
the Arabs. This forced the United Nations to send troops to fight
along side the Israeli troops to retake the Suez Canal and keep
the shipping lanes to the world open. Once again Israel was
attacked, this time not only with terrorists but with an
attempted blockade and blackmail from the Muslim world.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
> Well, I do have to give you 1973. When Egypt attacked the Sinai
> Peninsula
> and Syria attacked the Golan Heights, which were both.... their
> territory.
> So they attacked Israel by attacking their own land. Well, they
> did start
> the war, and there was probably a bombing raid or two on
> Israel.
Doug Says: At least you admit this one - so I do not need to
post the facts which of course proves the Arabs, once again,
attacked Israel first.
>
> Invasion of Lebanon. Well, we all remember the invasion of
> Israel by Lebanon
> don't we. Guess that plan to invade right up to the capital was
> just a
> counter-attack.
Doug Says: The Syrians and PLO terrorists were using Lebanon to
shell Israel and attack and murder its civilians. The
Palestinian terrorists were being trained, financed and armed in
Lebanon. Israel was attacked hundreds of times by forces within
Lebanon before it retaliated.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
Danzig
Danzig
>>>Doug Says: Perhaps you have not heard, the goons attacked
>>>America and its interests not less than ten times before we
>>>retaliated - Israel was attacked by the Arab nations not less
>>>than five times in a full scale war, and suffered its citizens
>>>wantonly murdered for decades before it finally started to
>>>fight back.
>>
>>Saudi Arabians directed from Afghanistan attacked the U.S.
>
>
> Doug Says: Please Danzig, the Saudi Government was not involved
> in attacking the USA - no more than the Jordanian Government is
> involved with the Jordanian goon Zargowi. Where a terrorist was
> born has nothing to do with his acts of terrorism. DUH!
>
> Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
folks were from!
Danzig
>>
>>EVERYTHING the admisitration says is White and every QUESTION
>>about it is BLACK
>
>
> Doug Says: Your opinion that everything the Bush administrations
> says is a lie is delusional and ridiculous.
>
Danzig
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Either a report is true or it is false - there is no
middle ground.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Saddam was building his own terrorist Army, and we
have all seen it on film parading for Saddam. Our Congress
declared war on all international terrorists and all those that
aid or harbor them - Saddam fit that description to a tee.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Be specific, what do you claim is a "load of SHI!!"?
Doug Grant (Tm)
Danzig
>>these are related to war???how so???
>>
> Doug Says: Stop top posting and think about it.
>
>
>
>