HOW TO CATCH SNIPERS
DGVREIMAN
HOW TO CATCH SNIPERS
First, we are all in this together. So regardless of whose theory
turns out to be right, we need to pursue ways to catch these
goons.
Chief Moose has been referring to the Sniper as "these people"
recently, so I suspect my theory there is more than one member of
this murderous cell is correct.
I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has been
confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing Muslims.
There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60% of
all African Americans are Muslims.)
The fact the snipers are not Muslims does not mean these
murderers are not working for the terrorists, which we all know
their claim to Islam is just a ruse anyway.
How to Catch The Goons:
It is clear to me that we need some luck, and some systematic and
spot checking if we are going to catch these murderers.
1. We need spot roadblocks in high suspect areas without warning
to the motorists. These roadblocks should be conducted early in
the morning and early evenings. Motorists should be asked to
cooperate.
2. The shooters(s) are leaving their vehicle and walking or
riding into concealment, normally wooded areas. They either are
using motorbikes to go into the woods, or are entering on foot
carrying weapons. I said before they are probably doing this at
night right before dawn. These wooded areas, parks, etc. , must
be patrolled by air for any "early" vehicles parked around these
wooded areas. All citizens should be informed that if they spot
anyone entering or leaving a wooded area they should have a hot
line to call. Especially if anyone is carrying anything.
3. We need undercover police (Military Police) to infiltrate all
wooded areas in the sniper's preferred areas using night scopes
and listening devices.
4. We need to place listening devices (or Video in some trees) in
as many areas as we can, with all noise filtered out except
gunshots. I know the planes are using this type of equipment, but
we could bury hundreds of these devices in or around the
Washington, D.C. area. Once the sniper fires, we could pinpoint
the noise almost immediately, and dispatch the required vehicle
and aircraft to surround the area.
5. If the listening devices are located in a wooded area, then we
could also pick up human footsteps. These footsteps can be easily
detected off of these devices, and my operators in Vietnam could
tell me how many VC, and almost what they were carrying. (I am
sure the listening devices are much more sophisticated now
compared to those we used in Vietnam.)
6. I believe all of this recent Sniper contact with the Police,
and demands for money is nothing more than a decoy procedure.
These murderers are terrorists. They know what they are doing,
and they are going to continue to do it until they are caught. I
would hope the police are checking those leads provided by the Al
Qaeda manual.
7. It is clear that after the snipers kill, they go to ground
somewhere close. Probably somewhere to eat breakfast or perform a
job. They wait a few hours then travel. Roadblocks after a
shooting should be maintained for some time in and around the
area in which the Sniper is most likely to live. I suspect
Fredericksburg Va.
8. The police must carry video cameras and video any suspicious
people traveling through their roadblocks. Even if the weapons
are not immediately detected, and even if the weapon is being
planted and retrieved right before the murder, the same people
located the area after every shooting should be suspect.
9. A metal detector must be used in the woods that were used for
concealment during the last murder. It is very possible the
sniper concealed his weapon in that area, and will return later
to retrieve it for the next murder.
10. If schools are going to be targeted, then all adjacent areas
that would offer concealment to any sniper should be infiltrated
by counterinsurgency specialists at night. Listening devices
*must* be placed in all woods or heavily foliaged areas around
schools in the Sniper's area.
11. All Gas stations en route from the logical home of the cell
must be canvassed for people gassing up between the hours of 3:00
A.M. and 5:30 A.M.. The sniper must travel very early in the
morning to get in position prior to dawn. He most likely is
refueling early in the morning en route.
12. All predawn traffic must be monitored very carefully. Any
vehicles pulling into a rest area or a park or wooded area,
especially around a school, must be investigated immediately.
13. Any writings received by the "snipers" must be revealed to
the public. There is a chance someone has seen that type of
writing before.
14. The public must be included in everything the Police knows.
As soon as the police gain a clue, it must be immediately
revealed to the public. Nothing can be held back. Forget trying
to know something that only the sniper knows so as to deter
crazies, this has gone far beyond that typical police tactic.
Conclusion:
To catch these snipers, and the ones that will come after them,
the police must be willing to turn their investigation over to
the public. If they did, they would have millions of citizens
that would devote their time, intellect and knowledge to help
them catch these murderers. I called for the police to solicit
the public after the very first day of the shootings. Until the
police stop acting like this is just another crime, then this
"crime" is going to continue. We need to amass our forces, and
the police should encourage the public to help them catch these
goons.
The Police need all the help they can get. It is time for them to
start asking for it.
Doug Grant (Tm)
NoWay
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:wGgt9.22115$1P1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Steve
DGVREIMAN wrote:
> HOW TO CATCH SNIPERS
>
> First, we are all in this together. So regardless of whose theory
> turns out to be right, we need to pursue ways to catch these
> goons.
>
> Chief Moose has been referring to the Sniper as "these people"
> recently, so I suspect my theory there is more than one member of
> this murderous cell is correct.
>
Common public speaking format to avoid saying this man or this woman, or
making any specific or implied identification that the media may try to
infer.
> I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has been
> confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing Muslims.
> There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
> indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60% of
> all African Americans are Muslims.)
60%. Where did you get that. There are more black Baptist than Muslims in
this country.
I guess this means that we don't single out the Mosic for interviews and
surveillance that you called for last week.
>
> The fact the snipers are not Muslims does not mean these
> murderers are not working for the terrorists, which we all know
> their claim to Islam is just a ruse anyway.
>
And the real lack of bringing about terror tends to say he is not a
terrorist. Refer to my prior arguments that this shooter is hitting one
here and one there. Get on ONE school bus ONCE and kill 20 or 30 kids and
tomorrow, there would be NO school kids on a school bus ANYWHERE in the
Country. That would be terrorist activity.
> How to Catch The Goons:
>
> It is clear to me that we need some luck, and some systematic and
> spot checking if we are going to catch these murderers.
>
> 1. We need spot roadblocks in high suspect areas without warning
> to the motorists. These roadblocks should be conducted early in
> the morning and early evenings. Motorists should be asked to
> cooperate.
>
Already ruled Unconsititutional by the Sup Ct. No Police State Tactics.
> 2. The shooters(s) are leaving their vehicle and walking or
> riding into concealment, normally wooded areas. They either are
> using motorbikes to go into the woods, or are entering on foot
> carrying weapons. I said before they are probably doing this at
> night right before dawn. These wooded areas, parks, etc. , must
> be patrolled by air for any "early" vehicles parked around these
> wooded areas. All citizens should be informed that if they spot
> anyone entering or leaving a wooded area they should have a hot
> line to call. Especially if anyone is carrying anything.
>
Do you know how many parks and wooded areas there are? People have already
been asked to report any unusual activity or people.
> 3. We need undercover police (Military Police) to infiltrate all
> wooded areas in the sniper's preferred areas using night scopes
> and listening devices.
>
Against the law, posse comitatus.
> 4. We need to place listening devices (or Video in some trees) in
> as many areas as we can, with all noise filtered out except
> gunshots. I know the planes are using this type of equipment, but
> we could bury hundreds of these devices in or around the
> Washington, D.C. area. Once the sniper fires, we could pinpoint
> the noise almost immediately, and dispatch the required vehicle
> and aircraft to surround the area.
Not enough of them have been made to cover the area the shooter has operated
in. As well as the fact there are Consititutional issues of privacy and
search involving people who are not suspects.
>
> 5. If the listening devices are located in a wooded area, then we
> could also pick up human footsteps. These footsteps can be easily
> detected off of these devices, and my operators in Vietnam could
> tell me how many VC, and almost what they were carrying. (I am
> sure the listening devices are much more sophisticated now
> compared to those we used in Vietnam.)
>
Same issue as above.
> 6. I believe all of this recent Sniper contact with the Police,
> and demands for money is nothing more than a decoy procedure.
> These murderers are terrorists. They know what they are doing,
> and they are going to continue to do it until they are caught. I
> would hope the police are checking those leads provided by the Al
> Qaeda manual.
>
The nature of the contact only lends support to NOT being a terrorist. Never
sale a Psycho sort. Insanity does not equal stupid. Much like the
Unabomber, he has something on his mind. Someone or something he sees as a
wrong.
See school bus argument as why this guy is not a terrorist.
> 7. It is clear that after the snipers kill, they go to ground
> somewhere close. Probably somewhere to eat breakfast or perform a
> job. They wait a few hours then travel. Roadblocks after a
> shooting should be maintained for some time in and around the
> area in which the Sniper is most likely to live. I suspect
> Fredericksburg Va.
>
I have said from the get go that there is a good chance that this guy is
sitting in the doenut shop watching everything, telling the waitress how
terrible all this is.
Fredericksburg? Why not one of the 100's of suburbs just out side the area?
> 8. The police must carry video cameras and video any suspicious
> people traveling through their roadblocks. Even if the weapons
> are not immediately detected, and even if the weapon is being
> planted and retrieved right before the murder, the same people
> located the area after every shooting should be suspect.
>
This gets back into Constitutional issues. The police cannot photograph and
maintain files on people just because. Also we are talking hundreds of
people who come and go through the area.
> 9. A metal detector must be used in the woods that were used for
> concealment during the last murder. It is very possible the
> sniper concealed his weapon in that area, and will return later
> to retrieve it for the next murder.
>
I think the hundreds of officers and agents on their hands and knees going
over every square inch of ground is a little more effective. And if
ANYTHING metal or not, was there they would find it.
> 10. If schools are going to be targeted, then all adjacent areas
> that would offer concealment to any sniper should be infiltrated
> by counterinsurgency specialists at night. Listening devices
> *must* be placed in all woods or heavily foliaged areas around
> schools in the Sniper's area.
>
Again, legal issues and thousands of schools.
> 11. All Gas stations en route from the logical home of the cell
> must be canvassed for people gassing up between the hours of 3:00
> A.M. and 5:30 A.M.. The sniper must travel very early in the
> morning to get in position prior to dawn. He most likely is
> refueling early in the morning en route.
>
Logical home. That narrows it down. Major assumption. And holds no water
and is a waste of limited resources if he in fact is shooting targets of
opportunity.
> 12. All predawn traffic must be monitored very carefully. Any
> vehicles pulling into a rest area or a park or wooded area,
> especially around a school, must be investigated immediately.
>
Again numbers and resources. As while as the same legal issues.
No crime, limits level of contact by police.
> 13. Any writings received by the "snipers" must be revealed to
> the public. There is a chance someone has seen that type of
> writing before.
>
> 14. The public must be included in everything the Police knows.
> As soon as the police gain a clue, it must be immediately
> revealed to the public. Nothing can be held back. Forget trying
> to know something that only the sniper knows so as to deter
> crazies, this has gone far beyond that typical police tactic.
>
A great deal is and should be held back. No major criminal investigation
has ever revealed all the police know. Many things are held back because
you don't want the suspect to know what you know. He leaves different clues
everytime. You are able to put bits and pieces together. Writings that
someone has seen before? That would imply non-terrorist as if it where
terrorist then they would fit your manual and people would who think they
know a terrorist would already know and called in.
Tell the public too much and they tailor what they "think" they saw to fit
the facts so that they can help the police. The Home Depot "witness" is a
prefect example. He heard news reports and what he said fit very well.
Until someone figured out he was INSIDE the store and COULD NOT have seen
what was going on.
No the police do not and should not tell all.
Just a reminder. How many people did the Zodiac killer kill. Almost 40.
And he was never Ided much less arrested.
> Conclusion:
>
> To catch these snipers, and the ones that will come after them,
> the police must be willing to turn their investigation over to
> the public. If they did, they would have millions of citizens
> that would devote their time, intellect and knowledge to help
> them catch these murderers. I called for the police to solicit
> the public after the very first day of the shootings. Until the
> police stop acting like this is just another crime, then this
> "crime" is going to continue. We need to amass our forces, and
> the police should encourage the public to help them catch these
> goons.
>
> The Police need all the help they can get. It is time for them to
> start asking for it.
>
> Doug Grant (Tm)
This is just another crime. Some guys walk into a bank and gundown all five
people inside. Bad, but just another crime. How many people have been
killed in this country since this guy started? Murder is murder, whether
you kill one or twenty-one. It is just as bad for the victims and their
families. In fact, the victims in a low profile single killing suffer more.
No national special funds no national media attention to help them.
No the public should pay attention and report what they see, but the police
need to continue to handle the case. Involving the public the way you are
calling for would only end up getting some innocent hurt or killed.
Steve
DGVREIMAN
"NoWay" <No...@NotNow.tv> wrote in message
news:3Xgt9.1354$vq2....@news1.east.cox.net...
> Nope. Your theory doesn't work. Muslims were in the WTC when
it fell.
>
Doug Says: That might be true, but they would not know it for
sure. Too many African Americans are being targeted here. I
suspect some other kind of terrorism at work.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Brighter Bulbs Exist
especially in wooded areas. My neighbors dogs bark their heads off at
any person/animal movement within 2-3 blocks. Might scare the shooter or
alert the public.
happystrawposter
Best way to catch a sniper is to send another sniper after the sniper.
I can see soldiers of fortune and bounty hunters gathering as the
reward money grows. what is it at now 500k,700k?
I just hope they get the freak soon
Red Herring
<dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has been
>confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing Muslims.
>There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
>indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60% of
>all African Americans are Muslims.)
According the American muslim Council, one out of four of american
muslims are AA. If true, fewer than 5% of AA are muslim. Muslims
kill other muslims all the time. Remember what they did to each other
in Afghanistan?
---
"I don't know a man, woman, or child who was not happy about what happened
in the U.S. [on 9/11/2001]" (Abdullah Al-Sabeh, a professor of psychology at
Riyadh's Imam Muhammed bin Saud Islamic University, Business Week, 11/26/2001)
Brighter Bulbs Exist
happystrawposter wrote...
Best way to catch a sniper is to send another sniper after the sniper. I
can see soldiers of fortune and bounty hunters gathering as the reward
money grows. what is it at now 500k,700k? I just hope they get the freak
soon
................
I have no clue. You may be right. With all those hypothetical
soldiers-of-fotune and bounty-hunters running around, hope it wouldn't
get too chaotic. Also hope they'd get the right suspect or a real mess
could ensue.
DGVREIMAN
<Steve> wrote in message
news:urbafs1...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> DGVREIMAN wrote:
> > HOW TO CATCH SNIPERS
> >
> > First, we are all in this together. So regardless of whose
theory
> > turns out to be right, we need to pursue ways to catch these
> > goons.
> >
> > Chief Moose has been referring to the Sniper as "these
people"
> > recently, so I suspect my theory there is more than one
member of
> > this murderous cell is correct.
> >
> Common public speaking format to avoid saying this man or this
woman, or
> making any specific or implied identification that the media
may try to
> infer.
Doug Says: Strange, he first called the snipers in the singular.
Now he is using the plural. Apparently he does not agree with
your opinion that everyone refers to singular individuals as
"these people." Strange, you seem to be the only one in the
world that believes that? Are you sure you are not just making
this up as you go?
>
> > I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has
been
> > confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing
Muslims.
> > There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
> > indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60%
of
> > all African Americans are Muslims.)
>
> 60%. Where did you get that. There are more black Baptist
than Muslims in
> this country.
> I guess this means that we don't single out the Mosic for
interviews and
> surveillance that you called for last week.
Doug Says: I got that statistic from AP and it was repeated by
several prestigious sources, including Fox News. Now where did
you get your Baptist statistics? The only person I know that
just makes up nonsense as he goes along sells monopoly games for
a living? Do you sell monopoly games? Further, what the hell is
a "Mosic?" If you are referring to Mosques, then you need to
read my post before you comment. You are not helping the cause
here with these nonsensical off-topic comments.
>
>
> >
> > The fact the snipers are not Muslims does not mean these
> > murderers are not working for the terrorists, which we all
know
> > their claim to Islam is just a ruse anyway.
> >
> And the real lack of bringing about terror tends to say he is
not a
> terrorist. Refer to my prior arguments that this shooter is
hitting one
> here and one there. Get on ONE school bus ONCE and kill 20 or
30 kids and
> tomorrow, there would be NO school kids on a school bus
ANYWHERE in the
> Country. That would be terrorist activity.
Doug Says: I agree. This person is a terrorist. But what kind
of terrorist? Right wing? Muslim? Liberal?
>
> > How to Catch The Goons:
> >
> > It is clear to me that we need some luck, and some systematic
and
> > spot checking if we are going to catch these murderers.
> >
> > 1. We need spot roadblocks in high suspect areas without
warning
> > to the motorists. These roadblocks should be conducted early
in
> > the morning and early evenings. Motorists should be asked to
> > cooperate.
> >
> Already ruled Unconsititutional by the Sup Ct. No Police State
Tactics.
Doug Says: Nope, this has not been challenged in the Supreme
Court. Spot checks for DUI and such is perfectly legal, and
searching vehicles is also legal. Like I said, are you making
this up as you go along? Try to be constructive here...we have
enough nonsense.
>
> > 2. The shooters(s) are leaving their vehicle and walking or
> > riding into concealment, normally wooded areas. They either
are
> > using motorbikes to go into the woods, or are entering on
foot
> > carrying weapons. I said before they are probably doing this
at
> > night right before dawn. These wooded areas, parks, etc. ,
must
> > be patrolled by air for any "early" vehicles parked around
these
> > wooded areas. All citizens should be informed that if they
spot
> > anyone entering or leaving a wooded area they should have a
hot
> > line to call. Especially if anyone is carrying anything.
> >
> Do you know how many parks and wooded areas there are? People
have already
> been asked to report any unusual activity or people.
Doug Says: Yes, there are many. But not so many we cannot at
least place one undercover deputized volunteer, or a member of
the National Guard MP unit in every one of them 7/24. If the
public were asked, the Police would have thousands of volunteers
ready willing and able to watch these areas until these goons are
caught.
>
> > 3. We need undercover police (Military Police) to infiltrate
all
> > wooded areas in the sniper's preferred areas using night
scopes
> > and listening devices.
> >
> Against the law, posse comitatus.
Doug Says: Not Posse Comitatus if it is the National Guard and
the Governor's call up the Guard. I am not talking about the
Regular Army, but even then military equipment could be used.
> > 4. We need to place listening devices (or Video in some
trees) in
> > as many areas as we can, with all noise filtered out except
> > gunshots. I know the planes are using this type of equipment,
but
> > we could bury hundreds of these devices in or around the
> > Washington, D.C. area. Once the sniper fires, we could
pinpoint
> > the noise almost immediately, and dispatch the required
vehicle
> > and aircraft to surround the area.
>
> Not enough of them have been made to cover the area the shooter
has operated
> in. As well as the fact there are Consititutional issues of
privacy and
> search involving people who are not suspects.
Doug Says: You are nuts. In Vietnam alone there were tens of
thousands of these devices. We spread them all over the Ho Chi
Minh trail which covered hundreds of miles. Moreover, listening
for gunshots and then using roadblocks to cordoned off areas
immediately after the gunshot is detected is already being done.
This just does it better. Are you sure you do not sell monopoly
games for a living?
>
> >
> > 5. If the listening devices are located in a wooded area,
then we
> > could also pick up human footsteps. These footsteps can be
easily
> > detected off of these devices, and my operators in Vietnam
could
> > tell me how many VC, and almost what they were carrying. (I
am
> > sure the listening devices are much more sophisticated now
> > compared to those we used in Vietnam.)
> >
>
> > 6. I believe all of this recent Sniper contact with the
Police,
> > and demands for money is nothing more than a decoy procedure.
> > These murderers are terrorists. They know what they are
doing,
> > and they are going to continue to do it until they are
caught. I
> > would hope the police are checking those leads provided by
the Al
> > Qaeda manual.
> >
> The nature of the contact only lends support to NOT being a
terrorist. Never
> sale a Psycho sort. Insanity does not equal stupid. Much like
the
> Unabomber, he has something on his mind. Someone or something
he sees as a
> wrong.
> See school bus argument as why this guy is not a terrorist.
Doug Says: Are you sure you do not sell monopoly games for a
living? I said the demands were a ruse. Obviously they are
meant to make people like you believe the snipers are not
terrorists. But then above you said they were terrorists? Are
you *sure* you are not making this up as you go along? The
shooters are terrorists. Read above.
> > 7. It is clear that after the snipers kill, they go to ground
> > somewhere close. Probably somewhere to eat breakfast or
perform a
> > job. They wait a few hours then travel. Roadblocks after a
> > shooting should be maintained for some time in and around the
> > area in which the Sniper is most likely to live. I suspect
> > Fredericksburg Va.
> >
> I have said from the get go that there is a good chance that
this guy is
> sitting in the doenut shop watching everything, telling the
waitress how
> terrible all this is.
> Fredericksburg? Why not one of the 100's of suburbs just out
side the area?
Doug Says: Do a vector plot. Are you *sure* you do not sell
monopoly games for a living?
>
> > 8. The police must carry video cameras and video any
suspicious
> > people traveling through their roadblocks. Even if the
weapons
> > are not immediately detected, and even if the weapon is being
> > planted and retrieved right before the murder, the same
people
> > located the area after every shooting should be suspect.
> >
> This gets back into Constitutional issues. The police cannot
photograph and
> maintain files on people just because. Also we are talking
hundreds of
> people who come and go through the area.
Doug Says: Incorrect again. (Whew!) The police use video
cameras in their daily patrol procedures. Cameras are not
illegal, this is not eavesdropping. If the videos show the same
person or same vehicle in more than one sniper shooting area,
that will produce very good leads. There are no constitutional
restrictions. Now if you would like to be specific, I will be
glad to search it. Moreover, I would think it would be more than
just hundreds of people, more like thousands. But we are looking
for a match, a duplicate found in the same area more than once.
Think about it....no never mind.
>
> > 9. A metal detector must be used in the woods that were used
for
> > concealment during the last murder. It is very possible the
> > sniper concealed his weapon in that area, and will return
later
> > to retrieve it for the next murder.
> >
> I think the hundreds of officers and agents on their hands and
knees going
> over every square inch of ground is a little more effective.
And if
> ANYTHING metal or not, was there they would find it.
Doug Says: Duh. The sniper is not going to camouflage the
weapon under a sniper camouflage net at the point he fired the
weapon. The woods have not been searched inch by inch by
officers on their hands and knees....you are making this bullshit
up as you go along aren't you?
>
> > 10. If schools are going to be targeted, then all adjacent
areas
> > that would offer concealment to any sniper should be
infiltrated
> > by counterinsurgency specialists at night. Listening devices
> > *must* be placed in all woods or heavily foliaged areas
around
> > schools in the Sniper's area.
> >
>
> Again, legal issues and thousands of schools.
Doug Says: Try about 100 schools maximum that have adjacent
woods, and there are no legal restrictions. Your input is
ridiculous.
>
> > 11. All Gas stations en route from the logical home of the
cell
> > must be canvassed for people gassing up between the hours of
3:00
> > A.M. and 5:30 A.M.. The sniper must travel very early in the
> > morning to get in position prior to dawn. He most likely is
> > refueling early in the morning en route.
> >
>
> Logical home. That narrows it down. Major assumption. And
holds no water
> and is a waste of limited resources if he in fact is shooting
targets of
> opportunity.
Doug Says: Wrong again. You cannot even plot a statistical
probability. You need to find another newsgroup. How old are
you anyway?
>
> > 12. All predawn traffic must be monitored very carefully. Any
> > vehicles pulling into a rest area or a park or wooded area,
> > especially around a school, must be investigated immediately.
> >
> Again numbers and resources. As while as the same legal
issues.
> No crime, limits level of contact by police.
Doug Says: Wrong again. There are no legal restrictions.
Resources are unlimited. Suspects are being stopped already.
You are claiming that what the police are already doing is
illegal. Are you SURE you do not sell monopoly games for a
living?
Doug Says: The above reply is idiotic, child like. The police
need help. Holding back information from the public is
counterproductive unless they have a specific bit of information
that has a specific reason to be held. Other than that, the
police need help desperately to catch these terrorists. The
reason the Zodiac killer escaped is because the police did
exactly what you have recommended...which is so completely
idiotic it appears you are working for the terrorists.
Doug Says: Utter nonsense, it will catch the snipers. It is
clear that is not what you want to happen. This is not a crime,
it is terrorism. The perpetrators think differently that
criminals, they act differently, and they have many more
resources than normal criminals. For anyone to even suggest that
these murders are "just another crime" indicates a lack of basic
understanding of the issues, and more akin to someone that sells
monoploy games for a living.
I have taken the time to respond to this TP because of the
obvious desire of these morons to keep this sniper shooting.
They love it, and they want to try and deter any serious effort
to stop them and those that will come after them. The public
will be the ones that will help catch this terrorist cell, and
without the involvement of the public, this cell will not be
brought down completely. The cops might get lucky and catch one
or two of them, but others will surface. This terrorism needs
the full attention of the Homeland Security, and we need to use
the public to help the police.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
> Steve
>
>
DGVREIMAN
"Red Herring" <red.h...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:16nbrukhromouglqc...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:21:16 GMT, "DGVREIMAN"
> <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has
been
> >confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing
Muslims.
> >There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
> >indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60%
of
> >all African Americans are Muslims.)
>
> According the American muslim Council, one out of four of
american
> muslims are AA. If true, fewer than 5% of AA are muslim.
Muslims
> kill other muslims all the time. Remember what they did to
each other
> in Afghanistan?
Doug Says: The last statistic I saw published was about 60% of
all African Americans are Muslim. Your extrapolation is not
accurate. However, your point about Afghanistan is a good one.
Not to mention the Iraq/Iran war. Yet I wonder..... This is too
professional.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Sally
examples of them horribly, and bloodily. Some people might argue that this
would be a step backwards in terms of civilized, decent behaviour in the
modern world but it would make snipers and/or terrorists etc think twice
about committing atrocities if being caught meant getting their entrails
removed while they're still alive(or worse).
Sally
<Steve> wrote in message news:urbafs1...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
Steve
DGVREIMAN wrote:
> <Steve> wrote in message
> news:urbafs1...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>
>> DGVREIMAN wrote:
>>> HOW TO CATCH SNIPERS
>>>
>>> First, we are all in this together. So regardless of whose theory
>>> turns out to be right, we need to pursue ways to catch these
>>> goons.
>>>
>>> Chief Moose has been referring to the Sniper as "these people"
>>> recently, so I suspect my theory there is more than one member of
>>> this murderous cell is correct.
>>>
>> Common public speaking format to avoid saying this man or this
>> woman, or making any specific or implied identification that the
>> media may try to infer.
>
> Doug Says: Strange, he first called the snipers in the singular.
> Now he is using the plural. Apparently he does not agree with
> your opinion that everyone refers to singular individuals as
> "these people." Strange, you seem to be the only one in the
> world that believes that? Are you sure you are not just making
> this up as you go?
Oh that's right, the police can't change the way they deal with the media.
After all this case is so simple, as you have shown us.
>>> I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has been
>>> confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing Muslims.
>>> There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
>>> indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60% of
>>> all African Americans are Muslims.)
>>
>> 60%. Where did you get that. There are more black Baptist than
>> Muslims in this country.
>> I guess this means that we don't single out the Mosic for interviews
>> and surveillance that you called for last week.
>
> Doug Says: I got that statistic from AP and it was repeated by
> several prestigious sources, including Fox News. Now where did
> you get your Baptist statistics? The only person I know that
> just makes up nonsense as he goes along sells monopoly games for
> a living? Do you sell monopoly games? Further, what the hell is
> a "Mosic?" If you are referring to Mosques, then you need to
> read my post before you comment. You are not helping the cause
> here with these nonsensical off-topic comments.
>>
Yes AP and Fox never get anything wrong do they.
http://www.adherents.com/
More stats than you could ever hope for about the growth and make up and
type of churches and religions in the US and the World.
Nonsensical off topic. You have, more than once, specifically called for
officials to go to Mosques (sorry I didn't go back and correct my shorthand
in the draft) and interview leadership about the identity of those who might
be involved in terrorist activity.
>>>
>>> The fact the snipers are not Muslims does not mean these
>>> murderers are not working for the terrorists, which we all know
>>> their claim to Islam is just a ruse anyway.
>>>
>> And the real lack of bringing about terror tends to say he is not a
>> terrorist. Refer to my prior arguments that this shooter is hitting
>> one here and one there. Get on ONE school bus ONCE and kill 20 or
>> 30 kids and tomorrow, there would be NO school kids on a school bus
>> ANYWHERE in the Country. That would be terrorist activity.
>
> Doug Says: I agree. This person is a terrorist. But what kind
> of terrorist? Right wing? Muslim? Liberal?
>>
I think anyone who commits serious crimes and remains on the loose could be
called a terrorist in the sense that the people in that community would be
in a state of terror. But I think when people who live around a state
prison are terrified because a murder escapes, kills someone, hijacks a car,
that it hardly makes him a terrorist.
>>> How to Catch The Goons:
>>>
>>> It is clear to me that we need some luck, and some systematic and
>>> spot checking if we are going to catch these murderers.
>>>
>>> 1. We need spot roadblocks in high suspect areas without warning
>>> to the motorists. These roadblocks should be conducted early in
>>> the morning and early evenings. Motorists should be asked to
>>> cooperate.
>>>
>> Already ruled Unconsititutional by the Sup Ct. No Police State
>> Tactics.
>
> Doug Says: Nope, this has not been challenged in the Supreme
> Court. Spot checks for DUI and such is perfectly legal, and
> searching vehicles is also legal. Like I said, are you making
> this up as you go along? Try to be constructive here...we have
> enough nonsense.
>>
Spot checks are not authorized. The police may set up roadblocks for
license and Sobriety checks within specific guidelines. They can not set up
drug check points and they can not use random stops. No I am not making
this up
The US Sup Ct set the rules. City of Indianapolis v Edmond, 531 U.S 32, 121
S.Ct. 447, 148 L.Ed. 2d 333 (2000).
>>> 2. The shooters(s) are leaving their vehicle and walking or
>>> riding into concealment, normally wooded areas. They either are
>>> using motorbikes to go into the woods, or are entering on foot
>>> carrying weapons. I said before they are probably doing this at
>>> night right before dawn. These wooded areas, parks, etc. , must
>>> be patrolled by air for any "early" vehicles parked around these
>>> wooded areas. All citizens should be informed that if they spot
>>> anyone entering or leaving a wooded area they should have a hot
>>> line to call. Especially if anyone is carrying anything.
>>>
>> Do you know how many parks and wooded areas there are? People have
>> already been asked to report any unusual activity or people.
>
> Doug Says: Yes, there are many. But not so many we cannot at
> least place one undercover deputized volunteer, or a member of
> the National Guard MP unit in every one of them 7/24. If the
> public were asked, the Police would have thousands of volunteers
> ready willing and able to watch these areas until these goons are
> caught.
Would this "deputized volunteer" have arrest power? State law in almost all
50 states require specific training and certification for someone to have
arrest powers. Most of the P.O.S.T. (Police Officers Standards and
Training) require 11 weeks of training. Most MP training is related to
movement and control of military units and in occupied areas. While the
"National Guard" could be activated by the Governor, it would still not
provide the type of trained people you need. It could give you more
manpower and then you might be able to watch all the areas you want watched.
>>> 3. We need undercover police (Military Police) to infiltrate all
>>> wooded areas in the sniper's preferred areas using night scopes
>>> and listening devices.
>>>
>> Against the law, posse comitatus.
>
> Doug Says: Not Posse Comitatus if it is the National Guard and
> the Governor's call up the Guard. I am not talking about the
> Regular Army, but even then military equipment could be used.
Yes military equipment can be used. You did not state the National Guard,
you said the military.
>
>>> 4. We need to place listening devices (or Video in some trees) in
>>> as many areas as we can, with all noise filtered out except
>>> gunshots. I know the planes are using this type of equipment, but
>>> we could bury hundreds of these devices in or around the
>>> Washington, D.C. area. Once the sniper fires, we could pinpoint
>>> the noise almost immediately, and dispatch the required vehicle
>>> and aircraft to surround the area.
>>
>> Not enough of them have been made to cover the area the shooter has
>> operated in. As well as the fact there are Consititutional issues
>> of privacy and search involving people who are not suspects.
>
> Doug Says: You are nuts. In Vietnam alone there were tens of
> thousands of these devices. We spread them all over the Ho Chi
> Minh trail which covered hundreds of miles. Moreover, listening
> for gunshots and then using roadblocks to cordoned off areas
> immediately after the gunshot is detected is already being done.
> This just does it better. Are you sure you do not sell monopoly
> games for a living?
>>
Again I doubt that the volume needed is available today. The military has
used a lot of tech over the years that simple is not maintained or
manufactured in the volumes needed in peace time. It is a problem that the
military deals with every time they are called into a more active mode.
What do we have and we do we need and how fast can it be made.
>>>
>>> 5. If the listening devices are located in a wooded area, then we
>>> could also pick up human footsteps. These footsteps can be easily
>>> detected off of these devices, and my operators in Vietnam could
>>> tell me how many VC, and almost what they were carrying. (I am
>>> sure the listening devices are much more sophisticated now
>>> compared to those we used in Vietnam.)
>>>
>
>>
>>> 6. I believe all of this recent Sniper contact with the Police,
>>> and demands for money is nothing more than a decoy procedure.
>>> These murderers are terrorists. They know what they are doing,
>>> and they are going to continue to do it until they are caught. I
>>> would hope the police are checking those leads provided by the Al
>>> Qaeda manual.
>>>
>> The nature of the contact only lends support to NOT being a
>> terrorist. Never sale a Psycho sort. Insanity does not equal
>> stupid. Much like the Unabomber, he has something on his mind.
>> Someone or something he sees as a wrong.
>> See school bus argument as why this guy is not a terrorist.
>
> Doug Says: Are you sure you do not sell monopoly games for a
> living? I said the demands were a ruse. Obviously they are
> meant to make people like you believe the snipers are not
> terrorists. But then above you said they were terrorists? Are
> you *sure* you are not making this up as you go along? The
> shooters are terrorists. Read above.
I still maintain that there is no evidence that this guy is anything more
than an all American nut case. Making what up. DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th Ed) Under Psychotic Disorders see
Schizophrenia, Grandiose Type and especially Persecutory Type. It seems
from recent news reports that the shooter called in several times to make
some demands and provide some information. He was ignored and even hung up
on. Which appears to have lead to five of the shootings. (This based on
published reports this morning Washington Post). His response to the
"authorities failure to respond to him is typical of the Persecutory type.
>
>>> 7. It is clear that after the snipers kill, they go to ground
>>> somewhere close. Probably somewhere to eat breakfast or perform a
>>> job. They wait a few hours then travel. Roadblocks after a
>>> shooting should be maintained for some time in and around the
>>> area in which the Sniper is most likely to live. I suspect
>>> Fredericksburg Va.
>>>
>> I have said from the get go that there is a good chance that this
>> guy is sitting in the doenut shop watching everything, telling the
>> waitress how terrible all this is.
>> Fredericksburg? Why not one of the 100's of suburbs just out side
>> the area?
>
> Doug Says: Do a vector plot. Are you *sure* you do not sell
> monopoly games for a living?
Depending on how you draw the lines and which locations you include or
exclude you can come up with more than one location. Also this would
discount the theory that he lives in one area and his job takes into the
areas of the shooting. And he may simple know you would do a vector plot
and is purposely choosing the areas to throw the plot off.
>>> 8. The police must carry video cameras and video any suspicious
>>> people traveling through their roadblocks. Even if the weapons
>>> are not immediately detected, and even if the weapon is being
>>> planted and retrieved right before the murder, the same people
>>> located the area after every shooting should be suspect.
>>>
>> This gets back into Constitutional issues. The police cannot
>> photograph and maintain files on people just because. Also we are
>> talking hundreds of people who come and go through the area.
>
> Doug Says: Incorrect again. (Whew!) The police use video
> cameras in their daily patrol procedures. Cameras are not
> illegal, this is not eavesdropping. If the videos show the same
> person or same vehicle in more than one sniper shooting area,
> that will produce very good leads. There are no constitutional
> restrictions. Now if you would like to be specific, I will be
> glad to search it. Moreover, I would think it would be more than
> just hundreds of people, more like thousands. But we are looking
> for a match, a duplicate found in the same area more than once.
> Think about it....no never mind.
The cameras they carry in their daily patrols record their contact with
citizens, they don't just record everything and everyone in sight. How many
people work and travel throughout the area. How many "white vans" are on
the road every day. Phone company, the plumbers, cable man, etc. and joe
the painter.
And with the exception of the one trooper working a traffic wreck, there
have apparently not been any police vehicles in the immediate area.
If I get the time later today I will go back and find the Klan lawsuit
against the FBI who were photographing people coming and going from their
meetings. The basic outcome of the case was that they couldn't photograph
these people absent a Responsible Believe that the person was involved in
criminal activity.
>
>>
>>> 9. A metal detector must be used in the woods that were used for
>>> concealment during the last murder. It is very possible the
>>> sniper concealed his weapon in that area, and will return later
>>> to retrieve it for the next murder.
>>>
>> I think the hundreds of officers and agents on their hands and knees
>> going over every square inch of ground is a little more effective.
>> And if ANYTHING metal or not, was there they would find it.
>
> Doug Says: Duh. The sniper is not going to camouflage the
> weapon under a sniper camouflage net at the point he fired the
> weapon. The woods have not been searched inch by inch by
> officers on their hands and knees....you are making this bullshit
> up as you go along aren't you?
I guess the video I saw on CNN, MSNBC and FOX were movie clips and not
really FBI, BATF and other law enfocement officers.
>>
>>> 10. If schools are going to be targeted, then all adjacent areas
>>> that would offer concealment to any sniper should be infiltrated
>>> by counterinsurgency specialists at night. Listening devices
>>> *must* be placed in all woods or heavily foliaged areas around
>>> schools in the Sniper's area.
>>>
>>
>> Again, legal issues and thousands of schools.
>
> Doug Says: Try about 100 schools maximum that have adjacent
> woods, and there are no legal restrictions. Your input is
> ridiculous.
>>
The Maryland Dept of Education website mailing list of schools list 1,376
different schools. And you think only 100 are near wooded areas. Sounds to
me like you are the one making things up.
>>> 11. All Gas stations en route from the logical home of the cell
>>> must be canvassed for people gassing up between the hours of 3:00
>>> A.M. and 5:30 A.M.. The sniper must travel very early in the
>>> morning to get in position prior to dawn. He most likely is
>>> refueling early in the morning en route.
>>>
>>
>> Logical home. That narrows it down. Major assumption. And holds no
>> water and is a waste of limited resources if he in fact is shooting
>> targets of opportunity.
>
> Doug Says: Wrong again. You cannot even plot a statistical
> probability. You need to find another newsgroup. How old are
> you anyway?
I can plot a statistical probability. And the last two shootings don't fit
in it.
>>> 12. All predawn traffic must be monitored very carefully. Any
>>> vehicles pulling into a rest area or a park or wooded area,
>>> especially around a school, must be investigated immediately.
>>>
>> Again numbers and resources. As while as the same legal issues.
>> No crime, limits level of contact by police.
>
> Doug Says: Wrong again. There are no legal restrictions.
> Resources are unlimited. Suspects are being stopped already.
> You are claiming that what the police are already doing is
> illegal. Are you SURE you do not sell monopoly games for a
> living?
What suspects? You mean the two poor Mexicans who were are at the wrong
phone at the wrong time. The only reason the were able to legally hold them
was their immigration status. A brief interview and ID verification would
be about all they could do without charging anyone else.
What is idiotic and childlike is the idea of having hundreds of untrained
vigilantes running around grabbing people who may or may not have done any
thing wrong. The police released a great deal of information about the
Zodiac killer.
And the police are releasing information that they believe would help lead
to catching this guy. Based on the number, training and experience levels
of law enforcement involved in this case, I think they know a lot more than
you do about catching criminals.
You are right police, federal law enforcement, PhDs, profilers and everyone
else who spends their life's finding and arresting these people lack any
understanding and I am sure they are selling Clue instead of Monopoly. You
are right about one thing. This guy does think different than most
criminals. Most criminals are ignorant and are arrested shortly after their
crimes because they don't think through what they are doing. This guy
thinks through what he is doing.
As far as resources. I am not sure what you think he needs. He has a rifle,
ammo and transportation. Beyond that and his twisted brain, I don't think
he needs much more.
> I have taken the time to respond to this TP because of the
> obvious desire of these morons to keep this sniper shooting.
> They love it, and they want to try and deter any serious effort
> to stop them and those that will come after them. The public
> will be the ones that will help catch this terrorist cell, and
> without the involvement of the public, this cell will not be
> brought down completely. The cops might get lucky and catch one
> or two of them, but others will surface. This terrorism needs
> the full attention of the Homeland Security, and we need to use
> the public to help the police.
>
> Doug Grant (Tm)
>>
>> Steve
It would seem that Doug is now falling into name calling. Of course his
past responses to people who have insulted him was to say they had no
argument. But Doug is different, he knows things no one else, including all
of law enforcement don't.
Yes the public may very well be involved in capturing this guy. It is not a
terrorist cell. Between one good witness and a little luck for the cops,
they will catch him.
Doug using your logic I think you are the shooter. You want everyone to
focus on terrorist and dump tons of resources into one area so that you can
go somewhere else and shoot someone. Or at least you want the shooter to
keep going so you can keep screaming Terrorist.
I would like to see this guy caught sooner than later. I also would like to
see it done in a nice legal manner.
Steve
M
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:wGgt9.22115$1P1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
>
> First, we are all in this together. So regardless of whose theory
> turns out to be right, we need to pursue ways to catch these
> goons.
>
> Chief Moose has been referring to the Sniper as "these people"
> recently, so I suspect my theory there is more than one member of
> this murderous cell is correct.
>
> I also believe my opinion these shooters are not Muslims has been
> confirmed. The Koran is very specific about not killing Muslims.
> There have been just too many African Americans murdered to
> indicate someone of the Muslim faith is involved. (About 60% of
> all African Americans are Muslims.)
60% is just plain wrong.
There are about 35 million blacks in the US
and only about 2.5 million muslims.
And that includes Arabs, blacks, whites and Asians.
You are not recalling the article correctly.
The 60% figure you recall relates to the overall increase in the US Muslim
population. It increased by over 60 percent since 1990, from 1.5 million to
over 2.5 million.
DGVREIMAN
"M" <M...@Large.com> wrote in message
news:6SJt9.36884$Up6.8...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Doug Says: I stand corrected. I checked back and you are right.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
Brighter Bulbs Exist
were caught.
I initially suspected some kind of anti-American terrorists, too, _until
they contacted/started contacting police_. Then I felt more comfortable,
because police had a LINK, something to TRACE.
No "terrorist"/criminal in their right mind contacts authorities, most
totally avoid them, (or being in public, I would also guess).
They were stupid; what turned them in was their bragging. When they
contaced police, I started thinking its a seriously mentally ill person
reaching out for help, because what kind of criminal contacts police. I
always had an open mind and didn't rule much out. One day, it looked
like terrorism, the next, a lone kook.
We still don't know EVERYTHING about these people. They WEREN'T Al
Quaida, as far as I've seen, but an INDEPENDENTLY OPERATING
sympathizers, best we can tell, at this time. There may be 20 OTHER
reasons they did what they did, the jury is STILL OUT, the information
isn't all in.
Are they terrorists, or nut-cases? At this point, WHO CARES. THEIR
CAUGHT. Right now, they may fit into 10 different catagories.
All we know Doug, is you (and maybe a few others in here) are 99.999%
ego.
You say steve is stupid and should think before he posts? Why the fuck
should he, its a FREE COUNTRY!!.
I think Steve's and other's input was well-taken;
I'm sure some authority was scanning these groups occassionally, looking
for anything worthwhile. All pertinent input was appreciated, I'm sure.
The best way to catch murderers like we had, is for people to speak up,
not be censured by a delusional egotistical tyrant. Doug, I don't read
all the posts in here, nor yours. You seem quite intelligent and have
great input, but it seems your whole life hinges on whether you're right
about news-story hypothesis' ('s?) that could be known in a matter of
hours.
If one thing Steve might do, is find another group where his input will
be appreciated, not scorned and upbraided for trying to help.
Fuck thinking, just type. I do
Steve
And that group is alt....? :) thanks. My only real problem with Doug is
that when someone takes exception to something he says and provides facts,
law, cites, etc, he either calls you names or runs off and starts a new
thread. We can all want the end result to be the same, the arrest of these
guys, but differ on the how. I like to think that I do think and have some
frame of reference before I post something.
Steve
dicktrickle
DGVREIMAN
"Brighter Bulbs Exist" <OneT...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26698-3D...@storefull-2152.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> It doesn't fucking matter who was right, what matters is these
people
> were caught.
Doug Says: Were they all caught? How are we going to catch the
ones that come after them?
Doug Says: We all have egos, but when Steve posts utter
nonsense, or simply lies about existing laws, I will challenge
his false statements. That has nothing to do with "ego" and a
lot to do with the truth.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Steve
What lies about existing laws have I posted?
DGVREIMAN
<Steve> wrote in message
news:urj4hss...@corp.supernews.com...
1. Using the National Guard is a violation of Posse Comitatus.
2. Stopping traffic for spot searches is a violation of the 4th
Amendment.
3. Interviewing suspects after witnesses have described a
certain ethnic background is racial profiling.
4. Video taping vehicles that pass through roadblocks is
illegal.
There are probably more, but those were the most glaring. You
also claimed the sniper was acting alone, was not a terrorist,
was a white man, was a psycho, and you tried your best to hide
the obvious...this was an act of terrorism. Muhammad is not
crazy, he was acting on behalf of the Al Qaeda call for murder.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
Steve
Using the Military. The constitution makes a distinction between the
military and the militia, i.e. National Guard.
> 2. Stopping traffic for spot searches is a violation of the 4th
> Amendment.
I cited the US SUP CT case. If you would like I will burn the bandwidth and
post the case. And you must have PC to search. The case law is clear on
the restrictions dealing with stopping and searching cars. The police have
more leeway with cars than houses, but there are limits.
> 3. Interviewing suspects after witnesses have described a
> certain ethnic background is racial profiling.
You must have more than race. To detain and interview a person against his
will requires probable cause that that person has committed a crime or a
warrant.. Terry v. Ohio. US SUP CT
> 4. Video taping vehicles that pass through roadblocks is
> illegal.
There are limits to how and what you can do with that information. You
cannot maintain a file on a person who has not committed a crime. Also your
post called for them to video everyone and everything. Even boarder than
just the cars going through checkpoints.
>
> There are probably more, but those were the most glaring. You
> also claimed the sniper was acting alone, was not a terrorist,
> was a white man, was a psycho, and you tried your best to hide
> the obvious...this was an act of terrorism. Muhammad is not
> crazy, he was acting on behalf of the Al Qaeda call for murder.
>
There were two. I was wrong. They are not terrorist. There has been NO
CLAIM but the police that they are anything other than thugs.
He may not be "crazy" but he is psycho.
And he is not white. Of course his partner is not black either. And neither
one is middle eastern as you claimed for so long. You did change that later
to he could be some thing else.
> Doug Grant (Tm)