Did Netscape ever charge $ for Navigator?
Netscape Guy
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease1.html
Says that Netscape Navigator is being offered for free "to users via
the Internet".
However, this press release (1998):
http://cgi.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html
Says that in addition to making the source code available, that
(again) various products (including Navigator) are being offered for
free.
So my questions are:
1) Did Netscape ever charge money for Navigator, or was it always
free?
2) If they did charge for Navigator, how much did they charge?
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
<QUOTE>
The first few releases of the product were made available in
"commercial" and "evaluation" versions; for example, version
"1.0" and version "1.0N". The "N" evaluation versions were
completely identical to the commercial versions; the letter
was there to remind people to pay for the browser once they
felt they had tried it long enough and were satisfied with
it. This distinction was formally dropped within a year of
the initial release, and the full version of the browser
continued to be made available for free online, with boxed
versions available on floppy disks (and later CDs) in stores
along with a period of phone support. Email support was
initially free, and remained so for a year or two until the
volume of support requests grew too high.
</UNQUOTE>
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator for
more info
Furthermore, there was a commercial version of Netscape, and
I believe it was called the Enterprise version. This
version was sold to business, such as Home Depot.
It interesting to note that IE and Netscape came from the
same core: Mosaic. Mosaic was broken up, and one branch
went on to become Netscape/Mozilla, while the other went to
become IE.
If you want more info, then post on Jay's site:
http://www.ufaq.org/ and he might help you more than I can.
--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!
Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public
Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
Netscape Guy
> <QUOTE>
> The first few releases of the product were made available in
> "commercial" and "evaluation" versions; for example, version
> "1.0" and version "1.0N". The "N" evaluation versions were
> completely identical to the commercial versions; the letter
> was there to remind people to pay for the browser once they
> felt they had tried it long enough and were satisfied with
> it. This distinction was formally dropped within a year of
> the initial release, and the full version of the browser
> continued to be made available for free online, with boxed
> versions available on floppy disks (and later CDs) in stores
> along with a period of phone support. Email support was
> initially free, and remained so for a year or two until the
> volume of support requests grew too high.
> </UNQUOTE>
>
> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator for
> more info
How about this:
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease1.html
<QUOTE>
NETSCAPE COMMUNICATIONS NOW, BUILDS ON TRADITION OF FREEWARE
FOR THE NET
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (October 13, 1994) -- Netscape Communications
Corporation today announced that it is offering its newly introduced
Netscape(TM) network navigator free to users via the Internet. The new
Internet navigator, developed by the six-month-old Silicon Valley
company led by Silicon Graphics founder Jim Clark and NCSA Mosaic
creator Marc Andreessen, is available immediately for free downloading
by individual, academic and research users.
By making Netscape available free to individuals for personal use, the
company builds on the tradition of software products for the Internet
being offered free of charge.
</UNQUOTE>
I think my quote trumps your quote.
So please explain why you (and others) think that Navigator was
originally NOT available for free, given the above policy announcement
by Netscape in 1994.
> Furthermore, there was a commercial version of Netscape, and
> I believe it was called the Enterprise version. This
> version was sold to business, such as Home Depot.
What - Home Depot needed to put web browsers on it's win-3.x and
win-95 machines for it's employees back in 1994 through 1998? For
what? Just what websites did it want it's employees to surf back
then?
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
the Enterprise version was used not for browsing the
websites, but for Inventory Control and other things. Its
similar to what Songbird did to Firefox:
http://www.songbirdnest.com/ and if you want more info about
the history of Netscape, ask Jay at: http://www.ufaq.org/.
Jay is the guy that set up Home Depot with Netscape.
Atleast I think it was Home Depot.
Netscape Guy
> the Enterprise version was used not for browsing the
> websites, but for Inventory Control and other things.
Aside from some custom client-server corporate stuff, did Netscape
expect (or require) the average web-surfer to $Buy$ Netscape
Navigator, or did it always give the Netscape browser away for free
(as it's 1994 press release claims) ???
Why is that so frigging hard a question to answer?
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
excuse me, but I'm only an end user helper, I'm not an
expert. I gave you the info that I know. If you want the
frigging answer, I've told you where to go and get it. Jay
is the expert in this area.
I'm done with this.
Moz Champion (Dan)
Yes. Prior to Netscape Communicator 4.04, Netscape charged most people
$29.95 for the browser.
When Internet Explorer came out, it too was priced at $29.95. It wasn't
until IE was rolled into Windows (and became part and parcel of it) that
Microsoft stopped 'charging' anything for it.
Prior to that offer (free - with the system) from Microsoft, Netscape
had the lions share of the browser market - over 80 percent. But with
the 'free' IE included with every Microsoft system, the days were numbered.
By version 4.03, it was clear to Netscape that they would have to
'match' Microsofts 'price' for IE, just to keep from losing market share
(down to 65% or so). So, Netscape stopped charging for Communicator.
Now, you get another problem. How do you propose to spend millions of
dollars in developing a 'new' browser, when all you are going to get in
return is nothing? MS didn't have that problem because a portion of the
revenue from the system sales was given to the browser department. So,
Netscape decided to go the 'open source' route and begat Mozilla.
Mozilla began with the 'source code' for Communicator, but eventually
abandoned it, and started all over again from scratch. By this time, AOL
and Sun had purchased Netscape.
But the answer to your question is YES. Netscape did charge for the
browser, prior to version 4.03
Netscape Guy
> > did Netscape expect (or require) the average web-surfer to
> > $Buy$ Netscape Navigator, or did it always give the Netscape
> > browser away for free (as it's 1994 press release claims) ???
>
> Yes. Prior to Netscape Communicator 4.04, Netscape charged most
> people $29.95 for the browser.
----------
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease1.html
NETSCAPE COMMUNICATIONS NOW, BUILDS ON TRADITION OF FREEWARE FOR THE
NET
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (October 13, 1994) -- Netscape Communications
Corporation today announced that it is offering its newly introduced
Netscape(TM) network navigator free to users via the Internet. The new
Internet navigator, developed by the six-month-old Silicon Valley
company led by Silicon Graphics founder Jim Clark and NCSA Mosaic
creator Marc Andreessen, is available immediately for free downloading
by individual, academic and research users.
-----------
So am I to assume that some _very_ early version of Netscape was given
away for free (as per the above press release) and then later at some
point Netscape began charging $30 (perhaps for version 2 or 3 or both)
before again making it available for free with version 4.04 ?
Or was the above press release a lie or a hoax or an internal memo
that did not materialize in the form of actual policy?
Moz Champion (Dan)
Both Netscape and Microsoft charged users in 1995, Netscape continued
this until late 1997
Even when there was a charge, you could find it for 'free' on the net in
certain circumstances. Of course, back then we are talking 28k or less
modems - meaning perhaps a three hour or so download - and there were
some ISPs who charged for time in those days as well.
Another 'flaw' in the ointment was... to get to the 'net' you had to
have some software - and it wasn't until Microsoft bundled IE with the
system that it became widely available as default.
Many ISPs gave away Netscape as their 'sign-on' package as well, either
that or a copy of IE.
Netscape Guy
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease1.html
NETSCAPE COMMUNICATIONS NOW, BUILDS ON TRADITION OF FREEWARE FOR THE
NET
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (October 13, 1994) -- Netscape Communications
Corporation today announced that it is offering its newly introduced
Netscape(TM) network navigator free to users via the Internet. The new
Internet navigator, developed by the six-month-old Silicon Valley
company led by Silicon Graphics founder Jim Clark and NCSA Mosaic
creator Marc Andreessen, is available immediately for free downloading
by individual, academic and research users.
-----------
"Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote:
> Both Netscape and Microsoft charged users in 1995, Netscape
> continued this until late 1997
How can you say that, when Netscape released the above press release
in October 1994 stating that they were making Navigator "free to users
via te Internet" ???
Why can't you (and others) directly address the existance of that
press release and expain it in terms of Netscape's history of charging
for Navigator?
> Both Netscape and Microsoft charged users in 1995,
The Wikipedia entry for IE does not mention that Microsoft ever
charged money for IE.
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
I don't know why your so hung up on a dead issue. It's over
10 years old, and you won't let it die. We've all said
Netscape was a paid for product, and then they gave it away
for free: http://www.mozilla.org/free-faq.html
I wonder if this is you:
http://www.ufaq.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=28425
Netscape Guy
> I don't know why your so hung up on a dead issue. It's over
> 10 years old, and you won't let it die. We've all said
> Netscape was a paid for product, and then they gave it away
> for free: http://www.mozilla.org/free-faq.html
I want to know why you and others are so reluctant to avoid talking
about Netscape's October 1994 press release where they stated that it
would be their policy to make Netscape available at no cost.
> I wonder if this is you:
> http://www.ufaq.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=28425
Yes it is. I was advised to post my question on that site early in
this thread.
And again nobody there directly addressed the question, which was why
did Netscape announce that Navigator was going to be free, then change
it a short time later before finally making it available for free.
And now I see in that thread that some are claiming that Navigator was
perhaps more "free" than not:
"You could download the full versions, and use them without charge
if you were in education or a student. I know because I downloaded
each new version."
No mention there about a 90-day expiry.
And again there is more talk about IE being a paid product, which I
can find no evidence for that claim.
The claim is absurd, given that Micro$oft integrated and bundled IE
(version 2) into Windows 95 OSR1 in February 1996 and bundled IE
version 3 into Win-95 OSR-2 in October 1996.
Prior to February 1996, IE was available (only?) as part of Microsoft
Plus! for Windows 95 (Internet Jumpstart Kit). Plus! seems to have
been a paid add-on product for Windows 95. Since Windows 95 release
date was August 1995, and presumably Plus! was first released
concurrently with Win-95, that means that technically you were paying
for IE version 1.0 indirectly when you purchased Plus!.
So the time-frame for needing to pay money to obtain IE would have
been August 1995 to February 1996 - about 18 months. After that, IE
was integrated into Win-95 SR-1 so that you weren't directly paying
money for it.
There is no evidence that Microsoft ever sold IE as a separate,
stand-alone product.
Netscape's desire to sell Navigator vs making it available for free
probably corresponds with the availability in August 1995 of IE
version 1 via paid purchase of Plus!. With Win-95 SR-1 and the
integration of IE 2 in February 1996, Netscape would have been selling
Navigator when IE was essentially being given away for free.
Looking at the history of Navigator, it seems likely that versions 0.9
through 1.1 were probably free, as Win-95 did not yet exist. The long
time-frame between Navigator 1.1 and 1.22 (March - August 1995)
corresponds with a stall in development until August when Win-95 was
released.
So my guess is that Navigator 1.22 was probably the transition point
between the free policy and charging for it. And then as others have
mentioned, Navigator reverted to a free product at some point during
version 4, which could be anywhere from June 1997 to November 1998.
It appears that the last version of Navigator 3.x came in October
1996, which coincides with Win-95 OSR-2 and it's version of IE 2.0.
Then we have a relatively long time-gap until Navigator 4.0 in June
1997.
So the various versions of Netscape seem closely tied to Windows 95,
and the policy as to if, and when, to charge money for Navigator is
also tied closely to IE and it's availability policy.
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
> I want to know why you and others are so reluctant to avoid talking
> about Netscape's October 1994 press release where they stated that it
> would be their policy to make Netscape available at no cost.
why are you so hung up on a dead issue? We've told you what
you need to know: at one point Netscape was a paid product.
Then it became a free product. The End.
Why do you keep asking? It happened over 10 years ago. Its over.
Netscape Guy
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
> > I want to know why you and others are so reluctant to avoid
> > talking about Netscape's October 1994 press release where
> > they stated that it would be their policy to make Netscape
> > available at no cost.
>
> why are you so hung up on a dead issue?
Why are you so hung up on trying to make it go away?
Don't you realize you're just drawing more attention to it?
> We've told you what you need to know: at one point Netscape
> was a paid product. Then it became a free product. The End.
No, you're missing something.
Initially it was free. Then it became a paid product. Then it became
free again.
> Why do you keep asking? It happened over 10 years ago. Its over.
Lots of things are over - but people still talk about them.
If you don't want too, then don't.
If you want to make the case that Netscape's policy re: Navigator was
straight-forward, then do so.
I'm making the case that it was not straight-forward on the basis of
their first press release.
Why don't you just come out and say:
"Jeeze, it sure looks like they did a complete about-face
by saying at the very outset that they'd make Navigator
available for free and then a short time later they
start charging for it."
Is that such a hard thing to admit?
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
no, you don't understand. Why are YOU keep harping about
it? People have told you, and you won't end it. Whats the
big deal? You're the one that won't end it.
Netscape Guy
> > Why don't you just come out and say:
> >
> > "Jeeze, it sure looks like they did a complete about-face
> > by saying at the very outset that they'd make Navigator
> > available for free and then a short time later they
> > start charging for it."
> >
> > Is that such a hard thing to admit?
>
> Why are YOU keep harping about it?
Why not?
> People have told you, and you won't end it.
What have they said?
They said that Navigator was intially a paid product, then it went
free.
I said no - according to a Netscape press release it was supposed to
be free from the start.
Well Postumus?
Was it initially free?
Leonidas Jones
Everybody has told you. There is nothing else to be said here. The
information you received at the UFAQ is all you are going to get.
Give it a rest, and get a life!
Lee
Moz Champion (Dan)
You can go out on the web right now and find things 'for free' that most
people have to pay for. For example, I can find the latest verssion of
Apple's OS X, that (given certain conditions) I can download and use...
free.
I don't meet those conditions tho.
If you take the time to read the announcement you are going on about,
you will note that the offer for 'free' has some conditions.
READ THIS
> MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (October 13, 1994) -- Netscape Communications
> Corporation today announced that it is offering its newly introduced
> Netscape(TM) network navigator free to users via the Internet. The new
> Internet navigator, developed by the six-month-old Silicon Valley
> company led by Silicon Graphics founder Jim Clark and NCSA Mosaic
> creator Marc Andreessen, is available immediately for free downloading
> by individual, academic and research users.
Note how it says individual, academic and research users.
The offer at that point was limited to academic and research users on an
individual basis.
Obviously, you sir are quite limited in your comprehension of the
written word.
Jose
>> by individual, academic and research users.
>
> Note how it says individual, academic and research users.
>
> The offer at that point was limited to academic and research users on an individual basis.
>
> Obviously, you sir are quite limited in your comprehension of the written word.
Uh... no. Look at the commas.
It is limited to individual users, academic users, and research users.
Individual users typically means "you and me, but not the twelve member company we own or work for".
Don't confuse navigator (the browser) with the other component whose name escapes me (the server). I think there was a point where they were charging for the server, but gave the browser away.
Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
Moz Champion (Dan)
>>> creator Marc Andreessen, is available immediately for free downloading
>>> by individual, academic and research users.
>>
>> Note how it says individual, academic and research users.
>>
>> The offer at that point was limited to academic and research users on
>> an individual basis.
>> Obviously, you sir are quite limited in your comprehension of the
>> written word.
>
> Uh... no. Look at the commas.
>
> It is limited to individual users, academic users, and research users.
>
> Individual users typically means "you and me, but not the twelve member
> company we own or work for".
>
> Don't confuse navigator (the browser) with the other component whose
> name escapes me (the server). I think there was a point where they were
> charging for the server, but gave the browser away.
>
> Jose
Well fine, you decide what it said ten years down the road.
I LIVED through it, and was part of it. I KNOW that very few met those
conditions at the time of the offer.
So go ahead and argue all you want what you think, it doesn't matter in
the slightest. Most people paid for Netscape up to the fall of 1997,
that's a fact.
Obviously you weren't there, I was. But feel free to misinterpret,
somehow it suits you
Jose
Ahhh... the magic of writing. :)
Netscape Guy
> > Uh... no. Look at the commas.
> >
> > It is limited to individual users, academic users, and research
> > users.
> Well fine, you decide what it said ten years down the road.
Why are you being a moron?
All that's being said here is that Netscape formulated a rather
"high-minded" corporate policy of making Navigator available for free,
and then apparently did an about-face and retracted that policy.
The following is not hypothetical, or fabricated. This is directly
from Netscape:
----------
(October 13, 1994) -- Netscape Communications Corporation today
announced that it is offering its newly introduced Netscape(TM)
network navigator free to users via the Internet. The new Internet
navigator, developed by the six-month-old Silicon Valley company led
by Silicon Graphics founder Jim Clark and NCSA Mosaic creator Marc
Andreessen, is available immediately for free downloading by
individual, academic and research users.
By making Netscape available free to individuals for personal use, the
company builds on the tradition of software products for the Internet
being offered free of charge.
"Making Netscape freely available to Internet users is Netscape
Communications' way of contributing to the explosive growth of
innovative information applications on global networks," said
Andreessen, vice president of technology at Netscape Communications.
"We expect Netscape's ease of use to spark another major leap in
Internet usage by making the net a powerful tool for a broader base of
users. By incorporating security and advanced functionality, Netscape
now lays the foundation for commerce on the net."
The initial version of Netscape available today on the net is a public
beta version, enabling users to provide feedback on the software's
features and functionality across a wide range of computing platforms.
The company will also place the final version of the navigator, due
out in November, on the Internet for free downloading. This version
delivers security features such as encryption and server
authentication. When paired with the Netsite Commerce Server due out
in November, Netscape lets users take advantage of such commercial
services as online publications, financial services and interactive
shopping.
Customers who download the software do so for personal use only.
Commercial users can purchase supported, licensed copies of Netscape
directly from Netscape Communications. Pricing starts at $99 per
user, which includes a 90-day warranty and customer support. Volume
discounts are available for multiple user licenses. For information on
volume licensing of Netscape, send electronic mail to
sa...@netscape.com.
----------
So as of October 1994, in brief:
- Navigator public beta version is available for free download
- Netscape announces corporate policy of making Navigator
available for free for personal and academic use
- Netscape sets the price at $99 per user in commercial or
business settings, with volume licensing as an option
- Final version of Navigator (presumably 1.0) will also be
available for free downloading shortly.
- Netscape believes in an internet tradition of free software,
and wants to be part of that tradition by making Navigator
freely available for individual, personal use.
Netscape again repeated this corporate policy in their third press
release on November 11, 1994:
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease3.html
Netscape's fourth press release states that Navigator 1.0 will be
available in December 1994:
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease4.html
On December 15/1994 Netscape announces the availability of Navigator
1.0:
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease8.html
In the release, they say they are:
"setting the single-user price of its Netscape Navigator for
commercial use at $39. The pricing -- which includes a 90-day
warranty, 90-day online or phone support, and diskette or CD
-- makes it readily affordable for commercial users, giving
the largest potential number of users access to commercial
strength, supported technology.
Netscape Navigator 1.0 is available for free downloading on the
Internet for academic and non-profit use, as well as for free
evaluation purposes."
In it's 16'th press release dated March 6 / 1995, Netscape announces
the release of Navigator 1.1 beta, with the non-beta version scheduled
for the following month.
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease16.html
Interstingly, Netscape also says this:
"The 1.1 version of Netscape Navigator now available on the
Internet is a public beta version, enabling users to provide
feedback on the software's features and functionality across
a wide range of computing platforms. As with the 1.0 release,
Netscape will place the final version of Netscape Navigator
1.1 -- due out in April -- on the Internet for free downloading
by students and staff in education and non-profit organizations,
and for free evaluation by individuals and commercial
organizations. "
Note the phrase "and for free evaluation by individuals and commercial
organizations". Missing is the free use in any or all non-profit /
non business situations.
Later in the same release they say this:
"Individuals who download the software do so for evaluation use
only."
Which reveals their pending intent to charge for it for all situations
and settings outside of educational use.
In it's 27'th press release dated June 5/1995, Netscape announces
"Netscape Navigator Personal Edition" which will retail for $40.
Netscape says that Navigator 1.1 is part of Netscape Navigator
Personal Edition.
Netscape does not seem to have announced the non-beta availability of
Navigator 1.1 in any previous press release, nor the terms of
availability or charge for Navigator 1.1.
On June 20/1995, Netscape announces the availability of Navigator 1.2
for Windows 95. It is available for downloading and use at no cost
for "educational and charitable non-profit use and for evaluation by
commercial users" - no mention of individuals or home user.
In this announcement, Netscape also ends it's policy of allowing
perpetual upgrade rights to anyone who had paid for a previous version
of Navigator. The new policy is that such rights are restricted to a
previous-purchase 90 day time-frame.
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease30.html
In an August 1995 press release, Netscape refers to it's software as
"open" - whatever that means:
-------------------------
Netscape's full line of open software includes three families of
products: Netscape Navigator client software, Netscape server
software, and Netscape Internet Applications(tm). The products deliver
secure communications, advanced performance and point-and-click
simplicity to companies and individuals who want to create or access
information services on the Internet or private TCP/IP networks.
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease35.html
--------------------------
In an August 22 press release, Netscape again announces Netscape
Navigator Personal Edition for Microsoft Windows 95, with availability
set for "the Fall" in retail outlets, but does not give a date for
direct download availability:
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease38.html
On Sept 18/2005 Netscape announces Navigator 2.0, but says it won't be
available in final release until December. It will be available for
free use by educational and non-profit organizational use, but
apparently all others will have to pay an estimated $50.
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease43.html
So basically the high-minded Netscape of October 1994 says that in the
spirit and tradition of the Internet that Navigator will be freely
available for all non-corporate, non-business users. Then just 2 short
months later in December 1994 it hints that it is reneging on that
policy and then 3 months later in March 1995 that free policy is fully
dismantled and buried.
For those that claim to have acquired Navigator 1.2 to 3.x via direct
download on the net (presumably from Netscape) it's not clear to me
how you could have obtained a fully working, non-expiring version
without paying for it at some point.
Presumably there were plenty of Navigator CD's in circulation, the
source being the many ISP's that would have provided them upon
customer sign-up, and presumably the Navigator on those CD's were
usable by anyone who could get their hands on them.
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
> Why are you being a moron?
the only one being a moron is you! You have been told a
dozen time, but you just won't accept it. Its an issue
thats happened over 10 years ago, and you're still dredging
it out. Why?
Netscape is dead. And so is this thread.
Netscape Guy
> You have been told a dozen time, but you just won't accept it.
>
> Netscape is dead. And so is this thread.
Until or unless you put forward a cogent rebuttal that counters my
point that Netscape initially offered Navigator at no charge and then
reversed itself with no explanation, I will simply repost my thesis.
Hope you enjoy it.
-------------------
Moz Champion (Dan)
When Netscape originally offerred it for free, it was to individuals in
research or academic fields.
The 'offer' was meant to spur distribution of the product as well as get
some more versions 'out there' for field testing as well.
Netscape spent some millions of dollars developing the product, and were
rewarded by their sales. When forced to utlimately give the product
away, after Microsoft forced the issue by bundling IE with the system,
the writing was on the wall for Netscape.
Up to that time, Netscape had been making literally billions of dollars
off it's browsers, and had started to enlarge it's offerings by entering
into the server software market (Enterprise). But, when they were forced
to give away Communicator 4.04 and later, they took note.
No longer would they be able to spend millions to further develop the
browser, simply because there was NO INCOME to be derived from it,
because they had to give it away to compete with the bundling of IE.
To make matters worse, Communicator was in need of an overhaul, so as to
keep pace with all the new developments on the internet. Netscape,
realizing that sinking millions into development would be a losing
proposition, went the OPEN SOURCE route.
Netscape created Mozilla to oversee open source development of it's
product, and released the source code for Communicator 4 as well.
Mozilla attempted to build on the source code, but it was so convuluted
and patchwork, that they had to ditch the entire effort and start all
over again.
In the meantime AOL and Sun purchased Netscape for billions of dollars
So, as you have been told countless times, Netscape did charge for its
browser, right up to the fall of 1997. Aside from a LIMITED distribution
which you referenced (and cannot read it seems) to academics and
researchers. Just like you can get Apple OS X for 'free' if you work for
a school (and can prove it to Apple), as well as substantial discounts
on the hardware. Apple charges most people $100 or thereabouts for the
system software, but it willing to give it away to specific educational
individuals. Just like what Netscape announced it would do.
So why are you so obsessed with this historical trivia anyway?
Netscape Guy
> When Netscape originally offerred it for free, it was to
> individuals in research or academic fields.
Wrong.
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
"Netscape Communications Corporation today announced that it
is offering its newly introduced Netscape(TM) network
navigator free to users via the Internet.
By making Netscape available free to individuals for personal
use, the company builds on the tradition of software products
for the Internet being offered free of charge.
Making Netscape freely available to Internet users is Netscape
Communications' way of contributing to the explosive growth of
innovative information applications on global networks,
Where in any of that do you get the idea that Netscape was intending
that educational users were the only ones earmarked for free use of
Navigator?
> So, as you have been told countless times, Netscape did charge
> for its browser, right up to the fall of 1997.
Why did they announce right at the very start that their intention was
to make it available for no charge to everyone outside of corporate or
business use, and then reneg on that intention just 2 or 3 months
later?
Moz Champion (Dan)
You weren't there were you? I was.
That offer was restricted to individuals in the academic and research
fields.
It did not apply to all users, and all future editions of Netscape
products in any case.
As stated innumerable times, Netscape continued to charge for its
products right up to the fall of 1997 and Communicator 4.0.4
Netscape Guy
> > Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
> > Making Netscape freely available to Internet users is Netscape
> > Communications' way of contributing to the explosive growth of
> > innovative information applications on global networks,
> > Where in any of that do you get the idea that Netscape was
> > intending that educational users were the only ones earmarked
> > for free use of Navigator?
> You weren't there were you? I was.
Why don't you explain the message behind the press release?
Why are you avoiding it?
> That offer was restricted to individuals in the academic and
> research fields.
The October and November 1994 Netscape press releases doesn't say
that.
> As stated innumerable times, Netscape continued to charge for
> its products right up to the fall of 1997 and Communicator
> 4.0.4
What was Netscape's official policy for Navigator 1.0?
What can you point to that reflects or declares Netscape's actual
policy about the availablity or rightful use of Navigator 1.0 ?
Moz Champion (Dan)
I didn't write the news release, nor was I consulted on it's wording.
Avoiding what?
Well fine and dandy, if you are so sure of whatever it is you are
writing about, then YOU explain it.
The FACTS are:
Netscape Communications charged for Netscape Navigator and Netscape
Communicator. They were still charging in the fall of 1997, at which
time, Communicator 4.0.4 could be bought for $29.95. They stopped
charging in the fall of 1997.
Here is a New York Time article about Netscape
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE0DF1031F93AA3575BC0A963958260
note that they state that Netscape was giving away it's software at that
time as well. But they give the reasoning behind it.
Here is another article a little later in time
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1995/vp950810/08100449.htm
Note how this article states the software can be found for free on the
internet but Netscape also offers the product for $40 in stores as well.
Here is a Netscape announcement about the relesase of Navigator 1.0
AND a price list!
http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1995q1/0010.html
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (December 15, 1994) -- Netscape Communications
Corporation today announced the availability of the 1.0 versions of its
Netscape Navigator and Netsite server line, including the Netsite
Commerce Server with integrated security. The availability of these open
software products, announced in September, enables Netscape Communications
to offer the first complete, secure client/server software system for
conducting commerce and exchanging information via the Internet and private
TCP/IP networks.
Netscape Communications also announced today that it is setting the
single-user price of its Netscape Navigator for commercial use at $39. The
pricing -- which includes a 90-day warranty, 90-day online or phone
support, and diskette or CD -- makes it readily affordable for commercial
users, giving the largest potential number of users access to commercial
strength, supported technology. Netscape Navigator 1.0 is available for
free downloading on the Internet for academic and non-profit use, as well
as for free evaluation purposes.
The end of that announcement should explain the previous statements as
well...
"....available for free downloading on the Internet for academic and
non-profit use, as as for free evaluation purposes."
So why dont you drop the subject already, having proven beyond a doubt
that you don't know anything about it.
Moz Champion (Dan)
And in case you have any doubt, another paragraph in the article of 15
Dec 1994 states
Netscape Navigator for free evaluation, academic or non-profit use can be
obtained via anonymous FTP from ftp.mcom.com. Free evaluation use allows
individuals to use the software for the purpose of determining whether they
want to purchase an ongoing software license. Academic and non-profit use
means that students, faculty and staff of educational institutions and
employees of non-profit organizations have unlimited free use of the
software. Educational institutions and non-profit organizations can also
obtain a license free of charge to redistribute Netscape Navigator to these
individuals. Organizations or individuals wishing to use Netscape
Navigator for commercial purposes can purchase supported, licensed copies
of Netscape Navigator directly from Netscape Communications. Pricing
starts at $39 for a single user license, and volume discounts are available
for right-to-copy licenses for multiple users.
Netscape Guy
> > Here is a Netscape announcement about the relesase of Navigator
> > 1.0 AND a price list!
> >
> > http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1995q1/0010.html
You full-quoting bone head.
I've refered to the same pr in my previous posts, and I never disputed
that Netscape always intended to charge _SOME_ entities for Navigator.
You didn't have to do crazy searches for Netscape PR's.
They're all here:
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease3.html
See the "3" in the above URL? Just change it to any number you want
if you want to see all of their dozens of PR's.
My point is that Netscape said in their very first press release in
October 1994 that their intention was to make Navigator *FREELY
AVAILABLE* to EVERYONE for non-corporate, non-business use.
EVERYONE means home users, students, educators, researchers,
non-profit organizations, etc. It *might* even mean public
institutions like federal, state, and municiple gov't as well as
military and hospital use (but that is an unrelated tangent).
Do you disagree that Netscape said that in their first press release?
Do you disagree that Netscape intended that home users were allowed to
freely obtain and use Navigator (not just "evaluate" it) and that such
obtainment and use was not time-limited nor limited to beta versions
nor limited to the first full release version of Navigator?
Moz Champion (Dan)
Who cares what Netscape did or didnt say in their first press release.
You asked if Netscape charged for it's products, you got your answer, it
did, regardless of that press release.
What you going to do now, sue them? Netscape is dead and gone. Whatever
they said, whatever they did, is stuff of the history books.
Fact is, Netscape charged for it's products.
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Hey Dan, I'm surprised you're still answering him after he's
called you a bone-head, a moron, an idiot, and other things.
Just plonk this idiot. He just doesn't get it. He's just a
bone-head of moron troll ;-) :-D
Leonidas Jones
I've had very much the same "discussion" with him on another group.
This "dialog" is a waste of our time. Grant is right, lets move on.
Lee