Brooke Medicine Eagle speaks her mind
Des...@webtv.net
http://www.briefme.com/a/article.cgi?id=14968&uid=220903&link=medici
Brooke Medicine Eagle has gained a following since the publication of
her book, "When Buffalo Woman Comes Singing," several years ago. This
site has information about Medicine Eagle's writings, seminars, and her
forthcoming book, "The Last Ghost Dance." It is an excellent source of
information on spiritual teachers from all parts of the world.
--------------
Here we go....
AI...@aol.com
No, just that she's a fraud, fake, a wasichu, and a liar. So her as a
source of information is badly tainted. I mean thats not even her
name, who cares if she legally changed it for marketing purposes.
Another colonialistic racist at work, John Franzone, Brooke-perhaps
next we can have someone extoll the virtues of Harley Regan aka Swift
Deer. Another lying wasichu fraud.
Later,
Sheridan
AIM is then the new warrior class of this century,
bound by the bonds of the drum, Pipe, Cedar;who
vote with their bodies instead of their mouths.
Their methods are strong. their message is hope.
Birgil Kills Straight 1974
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sipish
LOL
Sipish
>Earthkeeper Site For All My Relations:
>http://www.briefme.com/a/article.cgi?id=14968&uid=220903&link=medici
>Brooke Medicine Eagle has gained a following since the publication of
>her book, "When Buffalo Woman Comes Singing," several years ago. This
>site has information about Medicine Eagle's writings, seminars, and her
>forthcoming book, "The Last Ghost Dance." It is an excellent source of
>information on spiritual teachers from all parts of the world.
>--------------
>Here we go....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Wayne George
remembered from my past ,and it is something that kinda follows some
humans until they learn not to do what they see as fun........
In your case you seem to derive pleasure in sending things into this NG
(alt.native)with the idea of stirring up shit. Now shit is a word that I
find people like you will understand. So take care my friend...some day
what you give away so freely will come back to
visit............................
Mi'gwetch
Wayne George,Anishinabeg artist from Aazhoodena Territory and Beyond
the smiling crow ;-)
~~~~
clo...@softcom.net
You are pulling our chain, arn"t you???????
Jim Bright Thunder
Metis111
Sounds more to me like "blind leading the blind".
Donna
clo...@softcom.net
hell, lets throw in Sun Bear for good measure.
William McLaughlin
>> Brooke Medicine Eagle has gained a following
>
>Sounds more to me like "blind leading the blind".
Donna:
Actually, it's more like the blond leading the blond (grin).
Regards,
Mac
(Copy sent via email.)
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vaga...@voicenet.com
Affiliation: Card-carrying member of the Whiteboy Tribe
Indian Name: Running Joke
Power Animal: Brontosaurus (mine's bigger!)
-----------------------------------------------------
Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher
arguing that all others are jackasses. He usually
proves it, and I should add that he also usually
proves that he is one himself.
---H.L.Mencken
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KDenn39
Nation... I printed that out and faxed it to the Crow office, where they were
upset because they dont know how she got a hold of that paper, but the name on
it is not a member of their tribe...
That paper is a paper that the Crow Nation sends out to people who are
enrolled, but waiting for their final card to be sent...
Th Crow Nation was not happy about that fraud getting that paper...
Is brooke a trash digger as well?
Des...@webtv.net
my email, seems it's being sent out to many
people in the guise that this person is genuine.
Until I read the posts on these people I thought
they were genuine too.
I heard about Harley "Swift Deer" Reagan some time ago, but I had no
idea his Deer Tribe was
bogus. Same with Ghost Wolf and Medicine Eagle. Is anyone speaking out
against these people? Or is the public ignorant of who they really are?
BTW, this article came from Brief-Me Ezine, and if anyone would like to
have a say to the editor about the information that's being dispensed,
they can use this link kevi...@briefme.com or go to www.briefme.com and
click on the email button.
AI...@aol.com
AIM challenges and exposes them as do many other Indian organizations,
and peoples. The Elders have also spoken out against these peoples
actions. I think the dominant society just doesn't hear too good
sometimes.
Sheridan
--
Metis111
Now theres a name I havent heard in awhile. Isnt his name Manuel Rendon? Also,
isnt he Aztec? How does he fit in with Brooke Medicine Eagle and/or Lynn
Andrews?
Did I miss something?
Donna
clo...@softcom.net
cases, both simultaneously. Of course that's California, other places may be
different.
Manual wrote a book on his life as a sun dancer a few years back. Says to myself "
a what?"
Don't want to say any more! Get the book!
Jim Bright Thunder
clo...@softcom.net
publish said lists as it would seem extremely petty to many. So we share
them back and forth with others needing to know, those we trust. It is also
a focus on negativity, where the focus should be on positive. I threw my
list away when it exceeded about fifty names of both authors and lecturers,
or any who went about selling the new age nonsense. It got a bit sticky
during the harmonic convergence thing in Colorado, when some Native elders
we looked up to jumped onto the make a buck band wagon. In my parts, we
call these folk culture whores or tradition whores. They are above all
merchants, but just as often they do it for a following. There is a whole
new age merchant class and most all traditionals know who they are. Check
out the author/lecturer who calls herself Star hawk, she is a classic
merchant.
Jim bright Thunder
Des...@webtv.net
-
we can have someone extoll the virtues of Harley Regan aka Swift Deer.
Another lying wasichu fraud.
Later,
-
Sheridan
---------------------------
Just give 'em time. The american public is gaga for slop. Harley even
has his own website where he brags about his exploits. Claims he
was the inspiration for the movie character, Billy Jack.
Des...@webtv.net
-
and peoples. The Elders have also spoken out against these peoples
actions. I think the dominant society just doesn't hear too good
sometimes."
Sheridan
They hear very well, the trouble is they only hear what they want to
hear. I think the dominant society would rather have a white fraud than
the real thing. So they get exactly
what they deserve, which is nothing.
-
Perhaps AIM should save its breath and let
the gullible wallow in deceit, and be led around
by the nose like a fool by these charlatans.
Those who truly know are not taken in by these
people, it's just the wanna-be's. I think some of
them like being deceived. It's easier than facing
the truth.
Des...@webtv.net
goes to an editor but
I'm not sure who reads it. in...@briefme.com
-
Note: this is for anyone who would like to let
Brief-Me know they are promoting a fraud. :-)
Des...@webtv.net
-
the Crow Nation... I printed that out and faxed it to the Crow office,
where they were upset because they dont know how she got a hold of that
paper, but the name on it is not a member of their tribe...
Can they do anything to stop her from lying
about her history? These frauds are everywhere!
Morfydd
I have not read the rest of the thread here, but you did happen
to catch the contributions to Brooke page yes?
if she were any kind of healer she would not charge money
or ask for it, she would give her services to those who needed
her because that is a gift that should be shared. you cannot buy
these teachings, it doesn't work like that, you have to learn to
listen before you can understand the truth of the lessons.
it gets me so mad when i see these people doing this
not because she is a non-native but because as a healer
and whether she heals by words or deed, she should give that
gift freely, it is not hers to sell.
Morfydd
unimpressed
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clo...@softcom.net
guidelines regarding selling teachings and healings are essentially the same as
with the indigenous thinking folks in your country, but not always. Some of us
confront/critisize the merchants and some keep clear of such negative issues.
It is a personal thing with us. It is good to bring the subject up for thought
and open debate from time to time. In our native way it is common yet to
receive payment of some sort and that is up to those giving and those receiving.
Just saw your message and thought I'd say a word or two.
Jim bright Thunder
Akicita
--
Friends, Notice: To prevent spam, my reply-to address is deliberately wrong.
To send me email, change the "cmm" to "com" at the end of my email address,
instead of just clicking "reply."
--
I see a subject line like "Brooke Medicine Eagle Speaker her mind" and I
think, "well, THAT should be a short message..."
I once assaulted her guestbook with geurrilla comments, and Robert
Ghostwolf's too. Bob's guestbook was saturated in my messages and links to
expository websites that they had to remove the entire guestbook.
KDenn39
>about her history? These frauds are everywhere!
I dont think they can stop her from lying, but they might be able to do
something about a falsified federal ID...
KDenn39
>to catch the contributions to Brooke page yes?
Oh yes... oh puke...
>if she were any kind of healer she would not charge money
>or ask for it
dollar bills are in her eyes...
>she should give that
>gift freely, it is not hers to sell.
>
Even if she were Indian, it is still not for sale.. that is the word that needs
to be put out... if it is sold, it is not real... Save some white people bucks
and maybe put people like her out of business (I know.. I dream big!)
KDenn39
>about her history?
Oh and one thing.. I would give anything to get her in a some dark tree area at
49...
Panda
if you are treated it is the right thing to offer some thing for it.
Panda
KDenn39 <kde...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20000323010807...@ng-dc1.aol.com>...
theg...@bigfoot.com
Des...@webtv.net wrote:
Hi Destrrey,
This is the woman who was promoting that women force their way into sweats
while they are on their moon. Brook is the one who says that Indian men are
just as prejudiced against women as the main culture. Ms. Medicine Eagle
had a message of so called 'straight talk' to women on the site listed just
a week or so ago that was full of dewey gooey fantasy crap, where she
promotes making up new ceremonies. This is the same lady who promotes new
age women to insist and enlighten indian men about the power they
themselves (the women) hold and how the sweat should be honored to have
these menstruating new agers sit in with them.
Jenn
p.s. You are right about those who truly know won't be taken in but, they
will have to put up with all the misguided women followers of Brook barging
in demanding to be allowed roles of authority.
p.p.s. You are the one who brought this whole post here and now you call
for non action? What is your point? Why did you bring it here?
dw
clo...@softcom.net wrote:
> snip
> In my parts, we
> call these folk culture whores or tradition whores.
I like the terms . .
> They are above all
> merchants, but just as often they do it for a following. There is a whole
> new age merchant class and most all traditionals know who they are. Check
> out the author/lecturer who calls herself Star hawk, she is a classic
> merchant.
After checking out a couple of sources I found nothing about StarHawk that's
claims Native roots ? The term StarHawk is of European org.
dw
Des...@webtv.net wrote:
> kde...@aol.com (KDenn39) writes:
> -
> If anyone notices, she provides a link to her "proof of enrollment" in
> the Crow Nation... I printed that out and faxed it to the Crow office,
> where they were upset because they dont know how she got a hold of that
> paper, but the name on it is not a member of their tribe...
> -----------------------------
> Can they do anything to stop her from lying
> about her history? These frauds are everywhere!
clo...@softcom.net
european if you get my drift. How dare you speak that way to
representatives of the American Indian Movement!!!!!!!!
Your setting your self up for trouble here with your chosen few better than
thou rhetoric.
Jim Bright Thunder
clo...@softcom.net
Jim Bright Thunder
dw
information that the StarHawk ( site
http://www.webcom.com/cauldron/starhawk/welcome.html ) is making any claims on
being "Native American".
There may be another StarHawk as there was a claim that someone else was using her
name and a legal action was taken as I understand it.
I wouldn't want to group every "new ager" or would I want someone tainted by
incorrect information. On the other hand happy to add her to the list if she is
making claims of "Native American" roots, teaching etc.
dw
Morfydd
thanks for your words.
You are right when you call her a merchant
I know that out of appreciation and well being
a healer/teacher would be given a gift but
it does not seem
right to set boundaries of that gift,
especially when the people who are looking for guidance
and help are normally those who are feeling vulnerable enough
either financially, physically, or emotionally
to go looking in the first place.
What really got me was her sliding scale of appreciation
if you sent a mere $75 you are a contributor but
if you sent $10,000 you are an angel, that is nauseating.
Mop
In article <38D99245...@softcom.net>, clo...@softcom.net
wrote:
>In all actuality, she is a merchant and not a healer. The
Native American
>guidelines regarding selling teachings and healings are
essentially the same as
>with the indigenous thinking folks in your country, but not
always. Some of us
>confront/critisize the merchants and some keep clear of such
negative issues.
>It is a personal thing with us. It is good to bring the
subject up for thought
>and open debate from time to time. In our native way it is
common yet to
>receive payment of some sort and that is up to those giving and
those receiving.
>Just saw your message and thought I'd say a word or two.
>
> Jim bright Thunder
>
Morfydd
kde...@aol.com (KDenn39) wrote:
>>did happen
>>to catch the contributions to Brooke page yes?
>
>Oh yes... oh puke...
Urgh it was gruesome, I rarely get mad but when I saw that...
grrrrr
>
>>if she were any kind of healer she would not charge money
>>or ask for it
>
>dollar bills are in her eyes...
and a cash register in her heart.
>
>
>
>>she should give that
>>gift freely, it is not hers to sell.
>>
>
>Even if she were Indian, it is still not for sale.. that is the
word that needs
>to be put out... if it is sold, it is not real... Save some
white people bucks
>and maybe put people like her out of business (I know.. I dream
big!)
>
Over here there are many of these centres that offer
alternative treatments and they all cost a fortune.
Funny that eh?
They talk about harmony and being one with nature
but I have yet to see where money figures in that equation.
What does bother me is when I see those who are truly looking
for help being hoodwinked by these people. I do not think that
your dreams are too big, they should be shut down.
hopefully with her falsifying her enrollment then
she will be at least.
Mop
Morfydd
when I first came online i started to learn more about my
ancestry and culture and i joined a few of those celtic lists, i
was delighted at first thinking i will at last be able to
interact with someone who knew about the old ways. true to form
these people were very correct in their histories etc but they
kept talking of belonging to this tribe and clan and that tribe
or clan and I was sat there in the capital of Wales wondering
what place they were talking off, so I asked and they said Wales
of course :-D so I asked how many had been to Wales and none of
them had been, so I gently pointed out that maybe they should
come here and learn a little more about this country as it is
now, because well it has changed somewhat these past thousand
years and they said we do not go to Wales to be celtic, nor do
we need to be Welsh to be celtic, we are celtic in our hearts
and the Celts welcomed all so we are now celtic, I guess I
wasn't considered Celtic enough because I stopped getting mail
<sigh> You see so many people like that want to live in this
fantasy world it is cool to be Celt in america and because the
few that are true are quiet they get away with it. in the old
ways any COULD claim to be celtic and they would be accepted but
we would know and every so often an elder would come and set
them a task or question and if they could not do that task then
they were treated as twp, and pitied.
Sorry I am babbling away here, Do i know of the Gwyddon or
Gwythonic? The name rings a bell with me but I am not sure where
from. I must admit I tend to look askance at most "Celtic
Americans" nowadays. This is a good list if you wish to know of
the Celts, there are many good scholars on there and a few
Welsh/ Irish/ Scottish people also
pob hwyl,
Morfydd
In article <38DAB167...@softcom.net>, clo...@softcom.net
wrote:
>Hello Morfydd,
>
>The new age merchant thing is huge in California. It's enough
to turn ones
>stomach. The one that gets me every time are the neo pagan
groups that say they
>are Celtic and the founders and leaders are Jewish. These
groups abound here.
>Folks like the reformed order of the golden dawn in Berkeley
and Isaac
>Bonewitz. I keep looking for a genuine Celt and all I find are
anything but.
>Are you familiar with the American " pardon my attempt at Welsh-
Gwyddons or
>Gwythonics?"
>
> Jim Bright Thunder
Morfydd
wrote:
>I'll dig up their web site address for you and possibly you can
discern more
>about them than can I with my very limited knowledge of your
country. They are
>very nice people and open.
>
> Jim Bright Thunder
>
>
That would be great thanks Jim,
I was starting to look for Welsh people and organisations in
America and they sound like a good start. What is it they do?
Morfydd
clo...@softcom.net
Jim Bright Thunder
Morfydd wrote:
clo...@softcom.net
bay area. All I know is that she is supposed to Cherokee and Jewish.
clo...@softcom.net
about them than can I with my very limited knowledge of your country. They are
very nice people and open.
Jim Bright Thunder
Morfydd wrote:
> Annwyl Jim,
>
dw
I have checked with her publisher and she makes no claim of Cherokee and I don't know
what Jewish has to do with it.
Very Interested if she has made that claim or if someone else is making that claim for
her.
dw
clo...@softcom.net
This Star hawk woman is to traditionals like the bubonic plague. However your point of
view may be quite different, so I suggest you look into it all on your own.
I do not feel it a good thing to go on and on about a new age twit like Star Hawk or any
other self ordained new age guru.
The only things I could say about those like her would be slanderous, although factual.
Talk with as many as you can that have attended her appearances.
clo...@softcom.net
problem, others in your country have challenged this claim. They say the Welsh
are full of themselves and clannish. The Gwyddons could be defined as an
American occult organization with interest in early Welsh history, mystery
traditions and lore. As I said before, they are all good folks and most
sincere.
Jim Bright Thunder
Morfydd wrote:
> In article <38DAF1A9...@softcom.net>, clo...@softcom.net
> wrote:
> >I'll dig up their web site address for you and possibly you can
> discern more
> >about them than can I with my very limited knowledge of your
> country. They are
> >very nice people and open.
> >
> > Jim Bright Thunder
> >
> >
>
> That would be great thanks Jim,
> I was starting to look for Welsh people and organisations in
> America and they sound like a good start. What is it they do?
>
> Morfydd
>
Des...@webtv.net
"You know Destrey one? Your rude and condescending talk sounds very
eastern european if you get my drift."
No, I don't get your drift. I was neither rude
nor condescending. I asked if anything was
being done to inform the public that these
people are not what they claim to be, and I
was informed:
AI...@aol.com writes:
"AIM challenges and exposes them as do many other Indian organizations,
and peoples. The Elders have also spoken out against these peoples
actions. I think the dominant society just doesn't hear too good
sometimes."
-----------
I haven't heard much, outside of this news group, about the truth
regarding some of
these people. And I was wondering if people
were being told what was really going on.
The news media writes about these people,
but they never tell us what the Native
community has to say about these people.
The truth is out there, trouble is one has to go
looking for it. And in this culture, people are
trained to believe what they read without asking
any questions.
Until I came here and asked, I didn't know the facts about Robert Ghost
Wolf, Harley Swift Deer Regan, or Brooke Medicine Eagle. Yet, like the
general public, I hear much more about these people than the genuine
healers and the
genuine elders in the Native community. After
what I've learned here, I won't be taken in by
these people. I wish this were true for other
people who are honestly trying to learn about
Indian culture, but many of them won't learn
that they are being duped until after they've
been separated from their money.
------------
How dare you speak that way to
representatives of the American Indian Movement!!!!!!!!
Whatever you're selling, I'm not buying...
I take it that you inferred some slight when I
wrote this:
"Perhaps AIM should save its breath and let the gullible wallow in
deceit, and be led around by the nose like a fool by these charlatans.
Those who truly know are not taken in by these people, it's just the
wanna-be's. I think some of them like being deceived. It's easier than
Well let me clarify my words. All that I meant
was that you can talk til you're blue in the mouth
but some people still won't listen to the truth
because they WANT to believe a lie! My views
on dealing with people like this is to LET them
be deceived, if that is what they truly wish. You
can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn,
so why bother. Save your breath for those who
will LISTEN to truth. Those who hear the truth about people like Ghost
Wolf and Medicine
Eagle, and then deliberately ignore it, deserve
whatever they get.
Of course AIM should continue to expose these people as frauds, but they
shouldn't waste their time on New Age wanna-be's who jump on the
"Native Express" and then CHOOSE not to
listen to the truth. That's what I meant, I wasn't trying to tell them
to shut up. As you seem to think I was trying to do. Guru followers
will
only learn from experience. And frankly, this is
a nation of people who, for the most part, just
don't listen or care!
---------
clo...@softcom.net wrote:
Your setting yourself up for trouble here with your chosen few better
than thou rhetoric.
Jim
Bright Thunder
I'll assume that you are referring to this:
"Those who truly know are not taken in by
these people, it's just the wanna-be's."
that those people who go out of their way to
learn the truth, rather than just swallowing a
line of guff from people like Ghost Wolf or
Swift Deer, are NOT taken in by people who
don't have the credentials they claim to have.
There are no "chosen few", there are only the few who choose to learn
from people who are genuine elders, or people who truly follow their
chosen path. And not from every self-appointed spiritual guru who makes
the talk show circuit, writes a book, or puts up a web page.
-
Destrey
dw
Native American background. I have no information from an extensive background check and no
one other then you have made this claim. If she is making this claim I really need to have
proof so that a pending business deal is made aware of it. This was not a major concern
until you made such a claim.
There is nothing in any of her books about such background and was nothing in either of the
two videos I watched. Her bio from the publisher has nothing and I was able to see four
such bios going back to 1990. A forth coming book about New Age teachers (not favorable to
New Agers) while questioning many of her teachings make no mention of a Native Claim, while
it does about several others.
I have no interest in StarHawk's teaching other then if she is making a claim to being a
Native American teacher or of false NA background.
If you have information to back up these claim of yours I am very interested in it. If not
then I am greatly concerned why someone would make a false claim or why one would just lump
all NewAge Teachers into Native' bashers.
From your response I must now conclude that you have made a false statement. Lets hope it
was just an accident or from third hand information.
If you would like to pass on the information in a private manner I am happy to make
arrangements.
dw
Facts are never slander.
clo...@softcom.net
Jim Bright Thunder
dw
So from this you are confirming that you have no first hand information that StarHawk has ever made
any claim of being a Native American Teacher or of NA blood..
Thank you.
Daniel Weston
cc: SCH, FGY, RTY
clo...@softcom.net wrote:
> Tell Star Hawks publisher that I said she "Star hawk" is a sleazy merchant and a twit. As to
> what Star Hawk says about her ethnicity, I still say go to San Francisco. I never read any of
> her dribble nor have I attended any of her new age nonsense. All I know about her is strictly
> second hand or hearsay. Is it correct to verbally trash a new age merchant on hearsay, I think
> so.
>
> Look up a new age rag called Shamans Drum. They would have everything she has claimed or said.
> They know all the twits.
>
> Jim Bright thunder
clo...@softcom.net
what Star Hawk says about her ethnicity, I still say go to San Francisco. I never read any of
her dribble nor have I attended any of her new age nonsense. All I know about her is strictly
second hand or hearsay. Is it correct to verbally trash a new age merchant on hearsay, I think
so.
Look up a new age rag called Shamans Drum. They would have everything she has claimed or said.
They know all the twits.
Jim Bright thunder
Akicita
--
Friends, Notice: To prevent spam, my reply-to address is deliberately wrong.
To send me email, change the "cmm" to "com" at the end of my email address,
instead of just clicking "reply."
--
dw <wes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:38DC3760...@pacbell.net...
> Sad!
>
> So from this you are confirming that you have no first hand information
that StarHawk has ever made
> any claim of being a Native American Teacher or of NA blood..
>
> Thank you.
What do you need in front of you to amount to someone claiming to
be/represent Native America? I'm not sure, to be honest, that Starhawk HAS
ever made such a claim, but there are more ways to claim something than just
one. Getting up there dressed in newage Indian-style acoutraments, using
stereotyped "Indian" style guruspeak, and appealing to the wannabe-Indian
audience is a stronger statement than the simple claim, "I'm trying to be
Indian." It's like having someone in Blackface: they don't have to come out
and SAY, "I'm dishonorably imitating Black stereotypes" for anyone to see
that they're plainly doing precisely that.
dw
got some information. Black long dresses and nature is good doesn't rise to
that level. The Photos, videos and books seem a far way from it. Really would
like some true information on StarHawk claiming she is a Native American teacher
if you have it.
There are more then enough people on the list but it would discredit the list if
someone was on it wrongly.
Cooking in a pot over an open fire?
Using herbs for "healing"?
Living a "simpler" life?
Painting symbols using natural paints?
Leather clothing?
Stories using animals?
dw
clo...@softcom.net
California is up to its ears in folks that suffer from a diminished capacity to
reason, otherwise known as new agers. I will check with them and see if they
can verify star hawks native dribble.
What ever the case, who cares!!!!!!!
They are still trying to find this Agnus Whistling Elk that Lynn Andrews says is
her teacher and guide. While the money keeps flowing in.
Or how about Carlos Castanadas Don Juan. Still looking. While the money keeps
flowing in.
Jim Bright Thunder
Akicita wrote:
> --
> Friends, Notice: To prevent spam, my reply-to address is deliberately wrong.
> To send me email, change the "cmm" to "com" at the end of my email address,
> instead of just clicking "reply."
>
> --
> dw <wes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:38DC3760...@pacbell.net...
> > Sad!
> >
> > So from this you are confirming that you have no first hand information
> that StarHawk has ever made
> > any claim of being a Native American Teacher or of NA blood..
> >
> > Thank you.
>
Morfydd
does this organisation have a site that is
in both Welsh and English?
I have found a site like that and I am checking on it
with some friends, the Welsh that was written was certainly well
written but there are a few things in there that surprised me
and I would like to check on these.
The recognised druidic organisation here is the Gorsedd and
there is an international organisation of druidic training
http://www.druidry.org/index.shtml but please bear in mind that
these organisations are practicing the druidism that was revived
in the 1800, this is a very diluted form of druidry. there is so
much more to learn to even come close to the old, but it is a
helpful push start.
With regards to finding a true celt, define a true celt, they
were an adaptable people with many layers and faiths between
them. They are still about though, just somewhat quieter these
days :-)
oh incidentally, this may sound mean but in general
no druidic/celtic organisation of America is respected
as such here.
as told to me by a friend
" There are some people living in Celtic Lands today who are
trying to follow "The Old Religion" and to respect the land as
the
ancient Druids did. There are Druid Orders in the Celtic Lands of
Britain and France, in Brittany, Wales, Scotland and Cornwall. In
Ireland, there is as yet no official Druid Order affiliated to
the established Druid Orders, although one person who has very
little Druid knowledge did try and set one up. Anyone interested
in Druidry in Ireland is recommended to contact one of the long-
standing Druid Orders in Britain or France for more appropriate
information and details of Druid activities.
Although there are no official Druid organisations in Ireland at
present, there are people living in Ireland today trying to keep
Druidic traditions alive, and doing what they can to protect the
land and heritage of Erin.
dw
I do as we are paid to maintain a list of people "teaching" who are claiming Native
Backgrounds and won't or can't provide doc's for a group that will not advertise in
publications that allow people like that to place ads.
dw
clo...@softcom.net wrote:
> All the same stories that I have heard. I know a few twits around here,
> California is up to its ears in folks that suffer from a diminished capacity to
> reason, otherwise known as new agers. I will check with them and see if they
> can verify star hawks native dribble.
>
> What ever the case, who cares!!!!!!!
>
> Jim Bright Thunder
Anuh1
Des...@webtv.net writes:
How do you think they can stop her? With the false papers in hand, they might
be able to file a law suit against her, but that can take much time and a whole
lot of money, which they might not have. Assuming they win the lawsuit, they
MIGHT be able to collect reparations, but usually these people manage to hide
their assets well and collecting it is a far cry from getting a judgement
against them which may never actually be collected.
And then what? Will she stop? No, she might just drop that claim (about the
only grounds they have for suing her anyway) and go on name recognition alone,
or she might claim some other tribe. In any event, it won't go away.
Media exposure could help, but without the lawsuit to back it up, it becomes a
"he-said, she-said" situation.
Educating the public is about the only way to stop these people, and frankly,
I'm not so sure that it is worth it. Who do they hurt? Mostly the wannabes.
Those who can't find any other way of gaining any meaningful spiritual life.
Educating the public might get across some essential information, like *you get
what you pay for* and *if you go to a fraud, what you get is fraudulent*. But
most of them don't care. They would mortgage their non-existent souls to have
a spiritual connection and they do.
I feel sorry for them, but you can't buy spiritual experience of the true sort.
Anuh1
>Aztec? Every wanaby either wants to be an Aztec or a Lakota or in only too
>many
>cases, both simultaneously. Of course that's California, other places may be
>different.
California is the place that is different. In most places, wannabes are either
Cherokee or Lakota. Or both, often. I don't know how many Cherokee-Lakota
mixed bloods I've met in my life, and most of them have ancestors that have
never lived in either area, as far as they know.
Anuh1
Des...@webtv.net writes:
I tried that site and was told that it doesn't have a DNS entry.
Anuh1
>http://www.briefme.com/a/article.cgi?id=14968&uid=220903&link=medici
>Brooke Medicine Eagle is a Native American metis - an Earth wisdom teacher
>and catalyst for wholeness, ceremonial leader, sacred ecologist, Feng Shui
>practitioner, and author of Buffalo Woman Comes Singing.
Feng Shui - very traditional, huh? I had to laugh when I saw this one.
Anuh1
>> kde...@aol.com (KDenn39) writes:
>> -
>> If anyone notices, she provides a link to her "proof of enrollment" in
>> the Crow Nation... I printed that out and faxed it to the Crow office,
>> where they were upset because they dont know how she got a hold of that
>> paper, but the name on it is not a member of their tribe...
>> -----------------------------
>> Can they do anything to stop her from lying
>> about her history? These frauds are everywhere!
>
Since I passed the original posts and deleted them before I actually went to
that page, I'm borrowing this off of dw's post.
I could not find anywhere a link to her "proof of enrollment". Could you let
us in on where it is hidden, Keely?
Anuh1
>Hi, It is the same here, it is a gift and it is given free.
>if you are treated it is the right thing to offer some thing for it.
>
Traditions vary somewhat, but you are basically right. Of course, tobacco is
given first as a request to have your needs heard and if the person accepts the
tobacco, they will do what they can.
And after the healing, it is not only right to offer something for it, but that
something is supposed to reflect how much you feel that healing was worth to
you. If a healer saves your life and you gave only a small thing, you make a
statement that your life was only worth a little. So usually, you would give
more than you might actually believe the healing was worth, so that it would be
known that you hold yourself and your state of being at very high value.
The real difference is that nothing was required up front. Even the tobacco was
not a "gift" or "payment" unless it was accepted. It was only a request.
lenapelady
both CDIB. But I do understand what you're saying. LL
--
What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Anuh1 <an...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000326095821...@nso-ch.aol.com...
William McLaughlin
>I could not find anywhere a link to her "proof of enrollment". Could you let
>us in on where it is hidden, Keely?
It's at:
http://www.medicine-eagle.com/tribal_certificate.htm
If you go to http://www.medicine-eagle.com/bme2.html, there's
a link, reading "Click Here For Proof of Enrollment." So she's
clearly engaging in fraud.
Regards,
Mac
(Copy sent via email.)
-----------------------------------------------------
WILLIAM MC LAUGHLIN
vaga...@voicenet.com
Affiliation: Card-carrying member of the Whiteboy Tribe
Indian Name: Running Joke
Power Animal: Brontosaurus (mine's bigger!)
-----------------------------------------------------
The State is the altar of political freedom and, like
the religious altar, it is maintained for the purpose
of human sacrifice.
---Emma Goldman
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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John
From a cursory look at that certificate, It looks like a forgery. Take a
close look at the line that has her name on it, then look at the line that
has "SEE BELOW" typed in. They are different fonts. The thing that stands
out to me is the capital "E" in the word "Eagle" compared to the capital
"EE" in the word "SEE". Is it usual to fill out an official document on a
typewriter or even a computer generated form using two different fonts to
fill in blanks? Not from my experience. That form appears to be is a copy
of an official for that has been copied, the original name covered with
white out or correction tape, then the her name typed in. Just my $0.02
worth.
John
"William McLaughlin" <vaga...@voicenet.com> wrote in message
news:8pisds4tnronvc9p2...@4ax.com...
KDenn39
>us in on where it is hidden,
KDenn39
The tribe has already said it is a forgery.. notice how you can see the areas
of which were cut out and pasted and most likely then photo copied... (I put
the certificate on my photo thingy and then looked into it better able to make
some parts bigger..)
KDenn39
It is not legal to have any kind of false ID.. I am sure a federal ID would
fall under some kind of law...
>With the false papers in hand, they might
>be able to file a law suit against her,
They might.. but then I like the line her up against a wall idea... you know
the rest
Kip King
"SEE BELOW".
Mark K. Bilbo
seized the keyboard and feverishly tapped out:
[>Earthkeeper Site For All My Relations:
[>http://www.briefme.com/a/article.cgi?id=14968&uid=220903&link=medici
[>Brooke Medicine Eagle has gained a following since the publication of
[>her book, "When Buffalo Woman Comes Singing," several years ago. This
[>site has information about Medicine Eagle's writings, seminars, and her
[>forthcoming book, "The Last Ghost Dance." It is an excellent source of
[>information on spiritual teachers from all parts of the world.
[>--------------
[>Here we go....
Ol' Brooke would have to *have a mind before she could "speak" it....
=======================================================
Mark K. Bilbo
=======================================================
"A comman man marvels at uncommon things; a wise man
marvels at the commonplace." -- Confucius
Erik A. Mattila
It's been quite a while since I was at Crow Agency (the Bicentenial Crow Fair
in '76 - big gathering). But I remember about half the Crows I met claimed kin
to Yellow Hair - no kidding.
But the question that came to my mind from reading this thread is 'so what?'
What difference does it make if she's got a Crowool number or not. I'm
thinking I've known plenty of Indians over the years, that I knew were Indians,
who agressively marketed Indian pseudo-culture to whomever was willing to pay.
Someone here was mentioning those Indian clubs in Europe here recently -- you
want me to give a list of NDNs who were holding sweats in the Black Forest in
1972, of the same in Stolkholm, Paris and so on. Some (heehehee) have become
the strongest voice 'against' this kind of practice, when it became
advantageious to take that position. But I'm not here to drag anyone's ass
through the muck, I'm just making the point that one great big reason there is
such a thing as all this new age stuff that everyone seems so concerned with is
the cold, hard fact that there has been a lot of Indians over the years who
really got - off at being a GURU and developing an entourage of devoted (and
paying) neophyte shamanites.
I keep thinking about a famous funny story that came out of DQU in the
seventies. Banks had had the Sun Dance there, which was pretty beautiful even
though it caused a lot of trouble - importing religion out to California like
that. But anyway, after the second or third year there were some men who had
been Sun Dancers who were really trying hard, to the best of their ability, to
live the kind of restrictions and rules that were put to them by Shelby and
some other men who agreed to run these dances. But 'the best of their ability'
wasn't always good enough. Some of these guy were just thugs, and I mean no
disrespect by this. They had lived hard, violent lives, and it is what they
knew. So they took to monitoring one another, to stay on the straight and
narrow, stay away from drugs and crime or whatever. But one guy, called Yaqui,
kept messing up - which was bringing the heat down of the rest. So in one of
the sweats, when Yaqui ended up locked up in jail in Woodland, they were
praying around individually and when one guy's turn came up he prayed
"Grandfather, KILL YAQUI!" Geez, it was not the kind ot thing you would
expect. Well, hell, when I heard that story I really cracked up. It's like
everything is crazy anyway. This is a very sweet kind of irony.
But I'm saying this story because I believe that had these men had the support
of a traditional community, in between Sun Dances, they could have done a
better job of controling themselves -- probably succeeded even. But they
didn't. The reality in seventies was that 'traditional' was something that
passed by from time to time in someone's life like a steamboat. When you saw
it vanish upriver, then you were returned to the grey mayonaise of your life,
and it was very hard to find some reason not to go completely wild.
That's what my old buddy Joe Bill told me once. Do any of you out there know
Joe? Joe is a man from the far, far north, probably near where Floyd is at
(Barrow). He didn't see an automobile until he was 15 or so. He spoke his
language, talked his stories, and sang his songs. He appeared in San Francisco
for the Alcatraz occupation, and traveled around the lower states for many
years. He is a very brilliant man, and he likes to party. But he got a job
for about five years as director of an Indian Alcohol Program in LA, and legend
has it that he tea-totalled it all the way, without a hitch. So I didn't see
him for a long time, but once I was working in Hupa, building a guys house, and
one weekend Lester Jake shows up because he wanted me to down to Shregon to
help him smoke some fish that was going to be sent down to the Indian
prisioners at San Quintin. But there was this guy standing in the glare of
Lester's headlights, and Lester said "Oh, I brought you an old friend to
visit. Lo and behold it was Joe Bill, and I was really happy to see him. Joe
was the one that was setting up the "Fish for Prisoners" project. So I told
them I would come up there on the next weekend and help out.
When I got down to Shregon, Lester was there with Tony Gali, Isidro's brother,
but on the way down I stoped by the store in Hoopa to get some groceries, and I
was pretty sure that I saw Lesters car parked out in front of the Club Hoopa.
I just pushed on, but when I got to the Jake camp Lester and Tony were pretty
agitated, because Joe Bill had borrowed the car and disappeared for two days.
I told him I saw the car in front ot the club, and Lester really acted pissed.
Lester simply never drank, and he didn't think that Indians should drink. Tony
-- well, he was on 'good behavior' because he was running with Lester. Anyway,
we spent the morining and afternoon stripping fish and hanging it in the
smokehouse, and just as I was about to grab the last fish in the afternoon,
Lester grabbed it and said to hold-off. He asked me if I would drive him into
Hupa to look for Joe. I said sure. So Lester grabs the fish, about a 10Lb
Silver Salmon, and takes it down the hill from his camp to where there was a
Pick-up with some sports fishermen in it, and pounded on the door, and gave
them the fish, and asked them if they would keep an eye on his camp while we
went into town - he didn't want anyone to come up and take away the fish from
the smokehouse.
He came back up the hill and said "let's eat, and go into town, and those guys
down there will watch the camp." But pretty soon the fishermen came staggering
up the hill with a '5 pack' of Miller. They said "We thought you boys would
enjoy a cold one!" Lester just stared off into space and said "What you got
there don't interest me at all." The fisherman were all set back. So Tony
said "Yeah, me neither, No interest here!" Me? I just didn't say anything -
just kind of drooled a bit, but kept my mouth shut. Like Lincoln, I cannot say
a lie. So these guys, totally baffled and confused, gently sat down their '5
pack' on our work table, and rooled on down the hill. Anyway, we ate, went to
town, and couldn't fine Joe Bill, and returned to camp that night.
During the night Lester caught some more fish, so the next morning we were back
to work. The "5 pack" was sitting still on the table, hollering at me. If
anyone has ever stripped salmon, they will know that you get this scuzz all
over your hands, and when it starts to get hot, it's pretty uncomfortable.
Since we didn't have much water in camp, there was no place to wash up. But it
got so bad that I finally went over to the brewskis - Tony and Lester eyeing me
in a challenge - and popped one open and poured it over my hands and washed
up. It worked better than water - took that scuzz right off. I kept doing
this through the day. Finally, in the afternoon, Joe Bill shows up. He parks
Lester's car and staggers out with a big smile on his face. I started to say
"Hey Joe..." but I saw that Lester and Tony had decided to pretend like he
wasn't there. Lester had caught a rare 50 pounder the night before, and we had
been slow cooking the head all afternoon. Lester got it, and told me to dig
in. I Immediately ripped off the jaw, and said "I really love this jaw meat,
it's so juicy and gooood." Lester popped out the eyes, saying that "I really
prefer the eyeballs." But Ole Tony cracked the skull and shoved his face in
there and said "I like the BRAINS...growlfgrowlf!" So the three of were
standing there with salmon grease and parts rolling down our chins, and I
looked over at Joe Bill and realized this man had be hard partying for 3 days
and he was desperately hungry. I kind of hinted around to Lester and Tony, but
they were being really hard core about it. I had to appraise the situation for
a few seconds, but as much as I liked Tony and Lester, Joe and I went back more
years and there was some sort of loyalty there that is difficult to explain -
maybe from being in jail together or whatever, I couldn't find it in me to be
rude to Joe Bill. So I told him "Joe, I invented salmon pancakes today. Do
you want to try some out?" It was true - salmon is so rich that I got tired of
eating it for two days. But when you're slicing up the strips, there's all
sorts of little hunks of meat left over. I collected them and mixed them up
with pancake batter. They were delicious, I kid you not. So I fixed-up a mess
for Joe Bill, and he partook very happily. Lester and Tony were strutting
around all self-righteous and twisted out of shape- I guess they had a right to
be. But as far as I was conccerned my man needed some food, regardless of how
eloquently he had sinned.
Well, later on I could see that Joe was wanting another drink. He kept
eyeballing the last can of warm beer on the table. I was still cuttin up fish,
and I walked over to the last can, popped the top, and poured it over my hands,
cleaning them up. Joe's eyes almost left his face completely, but he didn't
say anything. Just sort of stood there and gaped at me. I said "I understand
that you didn't take a drink for five years." "That's right" he said. "Well
how does it feel to you now, to be standing there drunk again, after all those
years?" He just looked at me for a moment, and then said "I was the director
of an Indian Alcohol Program for five years. I had a reason not to drink. But
now I'm not the director of an Indian Alcohol program, so I'm going to Party."
I thought to myself "how can you argue with that logic? It's impeccable."
But it's not always clear to me why I write these things. But in this thread,
I think it is because I'm sensing that the idea of "Indian' is taking on a
ideological aspect that disturbs me, and I'm not exactly sure why I feel this
way. But my experience tells me that 'Indian" is a composite of the Tony
Galis, Lester Jakes, or Joe Bills much more than it is some sort of political
axiomatic expression. And I think my alarm flags goes waffling in the breeze a
bit when I realize that this whole scrutiny of this person, Medicine Brooks'
ligitimacy as an Indian, or by extension, as a human being. Who the hell am I,
you, or anyone else to judge 'indianess?" Clearly, part and parcel of being
Indian is the capacity to tteat Indian culture like a used car, a commodity,
and it seems to me that a campaign to eliminate a person that does this from
the category "Indian' is just science fiction, an osterich with it's head
buried in the sand, and an example of classic denial. Some Indians do this -
there's no real doubt about this. But the thing that I struggle with is the
fact that Indians who do this, even though I may not appreciate it for any of
several reasons, are still INDIANS. In other words, I think that if you
disagree with this persons agenda and action, it is OK to confront her as an
Indian. Besides, if you know Crows, you'll know they won't get too excited
about this inflated documentation issue. Crows are cconcerned with real things
- their horses!
Erik Mattila
AI...@aol.com
Des...@webtv.net wrote:
>> They hear very well, the trouble is they only hear what they want to
> hear. I think the dominant society would rather have a white fraud
than> the real thing. So they get exactly > what they deserve, which is
nothing.
> -
> Perhaps AIM should save its breath and let > the gullible wallow in
deceit, and be led around > by the nose like a fool by these
> people, it's just the wanna-be's. I think some of > them like being
deceived. It's easier than facing
> the truth.
True, however the problem is these gurus and the wanabee's cause
confusion which provides additional rationalizations for the colonial
settler states attacks upon Indian Nations and sovereignty.
Sheridan
--
AIM is then the new warrior class of this century,
bound by the bonds of the drum, Pipe, Cedar;who
vote with their bodies instead of their mouths.
Their methods are strong. their message is hope.
Birgil Kills Straight 1974
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Anuh1
(KDenn39) writes:
>>How do you think they can stop her?
>
>It is not legal to have any kind of false ID.. I am sure a federal ID would
>fall under some kind of law...
It should, but only if they can prove that the ID is falsified. For that, I
believe they have to have an actual copy of it. And that is what the law suit
would do, among other things.
>>With the false papers in hand, they might
>>be able to file a law suit against her,
>
>They might.. but then I like the line her up against a wall idea... you know
>the rest
>
Me, too, but that isn't legal in this country.
KDenn39
Hello... Only if they can prove it is false? Dont you think the Crow Nation has
record of who is enrolled? LOL Come on...
> For that, I
>believe they have to have an actual copy of it.
They have a copy of such, it is on that twits home page.. do you really think
someone else scanned that and put it on her page? Get real!
It is obvious you know nothing about enrollment or how records are kept...
William McLaughlin
Dear Keely:
Do you know if the Crow Nation is taking legal action??? I
would think that, since she sells stuff on her web page, the phony
enrollment document would constitute fraud. If that's the case, she
should be up on =criminal= charges.
All the best,
KDenn39
I dont know, when I last spoke to the lady at the Crow Agency tribal enrollment
office, she was going to speak to her brother or brother in law who would have
more information on where to proceed from there.
I think she should be up on criminal charges, and be made a example as well..
perhaps we can make it less pleasant for those who want to fake enrollment
information to further their finanacial gain..