Rare White Buffalo killed and skinned.

[Warren Penn]

(If this killing was done by Native Americans they should be hunted
down and shot)



The Hunt County Sheriff's Department is among several agencies
investigating the gruesome death of a rare white buffalo, born nearly
a year ago on a ranch near Greenville.

Lakota Buffalo Ranch owner Arby Little Soldier said he and his wife
returned from out of town to find the calf, considered sacred by some
in the Native American community, killed and skinned. The next day its
mother was also found dead.

The non-albino white buffalo was named Lightning Medicine Cloud in a
special ceremony last summer. The chance of a white buffalo birth is
said to be 1 in 10 million.

"My people – my brothers, my sisters – are hurt for what has happened
here at this ranch," Little Soldier said. "You don't think things like
this are going to happen to such a sacred animal, a sacred family."

Sheriff Randy Meeks said he was notified of the crime by Texas Parks
and Wildlife. His office is investigating with the help of the
Department of Homeland Security and the National Indian Council.

He wouldn't reveal details surrounding the investigation, saying he is
ever mindful of the significance of rituals and order in the tribe.

"Everything we did, we made a request and made sure it was fine with
them out of respect for the tribal council," Meeks said.

Little Soldier said the animal was more than just a symbol of hope,
one who's legend will live strong at the Lakota ranch.

"He was the hope of all nations," he said. "You have taken the inner
spirituality. You tried to stop what we're bringing back to ya'll, but
you just opened the doors to release the message to all people."

He hopes to bury Lightning Medicine Cloud with his mother and father
along a tree line. The calf's father was struck by lightning about a
month ago

[Way Back Jack]

On Sat, 05 May 2012 22:27:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:

> Warren Penn <haplog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>(If this killing was done by Native Americans they should be hunted
>>down and shot)
>
>

> Sounds more like something rednecks would do
> for kicks and glory ......
>
> Maybe the natives will follow your advice as
> to the proper response. :-)

White buff meat is really tasty .... yum, yum, yummy in the tummy.

Ya fuckin moonbat.

[Marvin the Martian]

On Sun, 06 May 2012 03:00:27 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:

> Natives should direct their attention to the redneck/cowboy sector
> and act
> accordingly. *I* will never convict them.

You have no idea who did it, yet you damn a whole race based on your
bigotry.

You're no better than the "kill a honky for Trayvon" idiots.

[Way Back Jack]

Breaking news shows that the white buffalo was killed by a racist black
buffalo, but Eric Holder has already had the charges dropped.

[spiritrising]

that will teach them not to paint things white!

[spiritrising]

well shit i vote for killing a martian for trayvon shit would go over better

[Marvin the Martian]

Is it profiling when EVERY other buffalo is black?

[Marvin the Martian]

What did any Martian do to Trayvon? Hell, for all I know, it could have
been a black guy who killed the honky buffalo for trayvon.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-05, Warren Penn schreef <haplog...@gmail.com>:

Wow, the calf's father was struck by lightning !? Both animals killed now.
It almost seems like the sign of the white buffalo was taken back. Perhaps
because the people (in general I mean, not necessarily at the ranch) did
something wrong ? Where people starting to idolize it maybe, rather then
expecting result from their own hands (sounds a bit that way) ?

Oh hi whole bunch of newsgroups. Sorry to interrupt. Wage revolution now !
--
http://www.law4.org Communism, anarchy and capitalism are insufficient.
>> Why & how: Democratic and Sovereign nations, democratic companies, <<
>> natural resource distribution and socialized investment credit. <<
System for society provided (Constitution etc.) + how to get it done (+ more).

[Walt Toon]

On May 6, 3:27 pm, Jos Boersema <jo...@xs4all.DelmeNospam.nl> wrote:
> Op 2012-05-05, Warren Penn schreef <haplogrou...@gmail.com>:

> --http://www.law4.org       Communism, anarchy and capitalism are insufficient.

>  >>   Why & how: Democratic and Sovereign nations, democratic companies,   <<
>  >>   natural  resource  distribution  and socialized investment credit.   <<
> System for society provided (Constitution etc.) + how to get it done (+ more).

As a child I ran with my grandfather to take shelter under an apple
tree during a thunderstorm. He was ahead of me by 15 or 20 feet and
as soon as he got under the tree, lightning struck, making a huge
fireball around the tree; and he staggered out from underneath the
tree with fire coming out of his hat and his coat was afire too. He
fell to the ground and the heavy downpour put out the fire as he
rolled over. I thought he was dead or going to die, but he staggered
home with my help holding him up, and my grandmother fixed him some
ginseng tea, covered him up and made a fire in the fireplace. He sat
there and shook for about an hour, and the next day he was fine except
the lightning had singed most of his hair off and his scalp was
burnt. When his hair grew back it was as white as snow. So just
because a buffalo is struck by lightning, that doesn't mean he's dead.

[Mamma Wesolowski]

That's my boy Jack Wesolowski, a 68-year old, mentally-ill ,
retired SSD worker, whith a well-documented, decade-long reputation
on the UseNet as foul-mouthed bigot, racist, liar, spammer and troll.


A recent ode to psychopath Jack Wesolowski, from rec.sport.boxing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.boxing/msg/336baad3954b6f51?dmode=source
http://tinyurl.com/7ldhq3b

"Way Back Jack, his mother licks my crack,
Then she sucks my dick until it's yellah.
An' his mother-fuckin' fathah doesn't so much as bother
To use some spittle when he's bung-holin' little
Boys, before they're rollin' in the shower, their 'nads all a'
swollen,
While our perverted faggot Jack laps up all their bloody turds.
He's a real low-life fellah, whose perversion escapes mere words


And one from alt.native, May 4, 2002.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/msg/0f12476019613f13?dmode=source
http://tinyurl.com/6ugweze

Brother Jack is a racist bigot
His mouth is a toxic old spigot
He spews out his hate
He never can wait
To find some more dolts who will dig it!

We know a white jerk named Jack
Who really wants to be black
He calls himself "brother"
Wears clothes from his mother(*)
The truth is he's just a hack

We see his rantings as racist bile
His words typically ugly and vile
The master of hate
Thank God he won't mate
Let us leave him alone for awhile

(*)
Jack Wesolowski, circa 2000
http://tinyurl.com/3dtnmpz

Meet Psychopath Jack Wesolowski, the crass, foul-mouthed, bigot,
racist, liar, spammer and troll.

Jack Wesolowski the spammer
http://tinyurl.com/3o7su5k

Jack Wesolowski the troll.
http://tinyurl.com/6ynlegl
http://tinyurl.com/5vljxag
http://tinyurl.com/3nukkeo

Jack Wesolowsk the liar.
http://tinyurl.com/6hr3lmq
http://tinyurl.com/44x4ceg

Jack Wesolowski the bigot.
http://tinyurl.com/3n5z48d
http://tinyurl.com/3h2sc48

Jack Wesolowski the racist.
http://tinyurl.com/3m3vhjb
http://tinyurl.com/3qoolnh
http://tinyurl.com/3j8gnfm
http://tinyurl.com/3c97kg7

Jack Wesolowski, aka

joe momma
farting boar
diane roselles
dr jackal
Repeal Obama
Mothzer Roselles
Xavier
Amber Travsky
Vladimir Tschenko Badenovsky
Off the moonbat
A liberal's worst nightmare
Swatting Moonbatz
Ruth Chilton
That Sleazy Cunt Piglosi
Obama Nation is Abomination
ObamaNation=Abomination
Let it Rock
Nobama
Repeal Obama
Mother Roselles
Swatting Moonbatz
Amber Travsky
Gary Sokolisch
Weary Bruiser 1 reti...@home.net
Vladimir Badenovsky
Mike Gibson's Ghost
Gary Sokolosch
Gary Sakolich
THE REAL GARY
GARY IN ANIMAL RESEARCH
GARY THE "ENGINEER"
Calhoun
Bobby Fuller
Calhoon
Jack (windswept@home.)
JackW (windswept@home)
Windswept@home. (jack)
BroJack
Bro Jack
brojac...@my-deja.com
waybackjack
way back jack
jackweso
JackWesolowski
jackw...@email.msn.com (brojac...@my-deja.com)
Jack Wesolowski (wesolow...@freewwweb.com)
BroJ...@windswept.net (BroJack)
Windswept@Home (Jack W)
jackw...@email.msn.com (brojac...@my-deja.com)
Jack from waaaayyyyyBack

John F Wesolowski
3045 Old Washington Rd
Westminster, MD 21157
(410) 876-6914
http://tinyurl.com/6cv8t2e

[Way Back Jack]

On Sun, 6 May 2012 16:40:23 -0700 (PDT), Walt Toon wrote:

> As a child I ran with my grandfather to take shelter under an apple
> tree during a thunderstorm. He was ahead of me by 15 or 20 feet and
> as soon as he got under the tree, lightning struck, making a huge
> fireball around the tree; and he staggered out from underneath the
> tree with fire coming out of his hat and his coat was afire too. He
> fell to the ground and the heavy downpour put out the fire as he
> rolled over. I thought he was dead or going to die, but he staggered
> home with my help holding him up, and my grandmother fixed him some
> ginseng tea, covered him up and made a fire in the fireplace. He sat
> there and shook for about an hour, and the next day he was fine except
> the lightning had singed most of his hair off and his scalp was
> burnt. When his hair grew back it was as white as snow. So just
> because a buffalo is struck by lightning, that doesn't mean he's dead.

But the bison doesn't have the support group like your gramps did with you
and granny to care for him.

I've found the American bison to be stupid. E.g., they run when the
wolfpack attacks. Invariably, one of the young bison cannot keep up and
falls prey. Sometimes a macho male bison will stop running and try to
fight the whole wolfpack. Big mistake.

Instead, they should emulate their cousins, the musk ox, who stand shoulder
to shoulder in a defensive position with the young ones in the center of
the circle. That's far more effective than running.

By the way, gramps should have known better than to run for a tree in a
T-storm. He should have dropped to his knees in open ground and leaned
forward.

[Marvin the Martian]

Golden calf, white bison, sacred cows... I mean, what's with all the
bovine worship? They're cows! That means cheeseburgers.

And since the Indians used to slaughter an entire herd by driving them
off a cliff, they weren't all that "sacred" to the real authentic Indians
who lived off the land - that's a new development to the modern day
Indians who live off victimhood.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-07, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

You should go to the bison and teach them. :)
Maybe the Bisons are smarter then you think, and they start running
once they see the wolves, they sucker the wolves into a hunt because
wolves just can't resist it. Then the run just hard enough for the
weakest Bison to drop behind, on purpose ! That way they loose those
who are weak from the herd, so they can run fast when they really
need to.

> By the way, gramps should have known better than to run for a tree in a
> T-storm. He should have dropped to his knees in open ground and leaned
> forward.

But what's the chance of getting wet versus getting struck.

--

[Way Back Jack]

The weak are one thing but the wolfpack invariably nails the healthy but
young. Sorta like sacrificing your kids for no reason. The weak, elderly
bison are going to die anyway.

>> By the way, gramps should have known better than to run for a tree in a
>> T-storm. He should have dropped to his knees in open ground and leaned
>> forward.
>
> But what's the chance of getting wet versus getting struck.

The chance of getting struck while under a tree is far greater than the
chance of being struck while assuming the posture described above.

Getting wet is something one can overcome easily. Besides, tree canopies
are no guarantee for dryness.

[Jos Boersema]

It's a genetic issue, you see the Bison are genetic engineers and they
take great pride in their stock. It's not about health, there are many
healthy calfs, it's about their abilities relative to other healthy
calves. Bison are sophisticated creatures.

>>> By the way, gramps should have known better than to run for a tree in a
>>> T-storm. He should have dropped to his knees in open ground and leaned
>>> forward.
>>
>> But what's the chance of getting wet versus getting struck.
>
> The chance of getting struck while under a tree is far greater than the
> chance of being struck while assuming the posture described above.
>
> Getting wet is something one can overcome easily. Besides, tree canopies
> are no guarantee for dryness.

I'll take my chances under a tree every time, and don't forget the risk of
getting sick while being wet, or getting run over by a horse while hunkered
down.

[Guv Bob]

Pls stop cross-posting

"Jos Boersema" <jo...@xs4all.DelmeNospam.nl> wrote in message news:slrnjqdkd3...@josjoha.josjoha-domein...

[Guv Bob]

Pls stop cross-posting

"Marvin the Martian" <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote in message news:NeydnfeuQpYe0zvS...@giganews.com...

[Guv Bob]

Pls stop cross-posting

"spiritrising" <miketwo...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e3ca0$4fa67846$adbe90c9$13...@ALLTEL.NET...

[Guv Bob]

Pls stop cross-posting.

"Way Back Jack" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message news:fkhp00bqjuhp$.3qn3u5glnhjs.dlg@40tude.net...

[Way Back Jack]

The wolves kill the young, both healthy and unhealthy. Thus, what we have
left are geezer bison.

>>>> By the way, gramps should have known better than to run for a tree in a
>>>> T-storm. He should have dropped to his knees in open ground and leaned
>>>> forward.
>>>
>>> But what's the chance of getting wet versus getting struck.
>>
>> The chance of getting struck while under a tree is far greater than the
>> chance of being struck while assuming the posture described above.
>>
>> Getting wet is something one can overcome easily. Besides, tree canopies
>> are no guarantee for dryness.
>
> I'll take my chances under a tree every time, and don't forget the risk of
> getting sick while being wet, or getting run over by a horse while hunkered
> down.

You're taking a big chance going under a tree. Getting wet doesn't cause
illness; getting hit by lightning does. The chance of getting run over by
a horse is practically nil, unless you drop down suddenly in front of a
stampede.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-08, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

> On 07 May 2012 13:53:37 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>> Op 2012-05-07, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

>>> The weak are one thing but the wolfpack invariably nails the healthy but
>>> young. Sorta like sacrificing your kids for no reason. The weak, elderly
>>> bison are going to die anyway.
>>
>> It's a genetic issue, you see the Bison are genetic engineers and they
>> take great pride in their stock. It's not about health, there are many
>> healthy calfs, it's about their abilities relative to other healthy
>> calves. Bison are sophisticated creatures.
>
> The wolves kill the young, both healthy and unhealthy. Thus, what we have
> left are geezer bison.

[...]

Either way it is a great shame the white man 'culture' has destroyed
both the Buffalo in North America and their cousins in Eurazia.
Literally all that is left here is a memory, a statue (I drive past
it to 'work'). Not so long ago we had the Wisent here (I belief it
was called, we don't even know the names anymore.) But in this
senseless destruction of white man culture also may be the last hope,
which is that this crazed culture will eventually sensesly destroy
itself also; maybe then many animals can return and white man would be a
little wiser (I'm not holding my breath on that one though).

[iL_WeReo]

On May 6, 9:05 am, spiritrising <miketwofeath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marvin the Martian wrote:
> > On Sun, 06 May 2012 03:00:27 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>

> >> Way Back Jack<inva...@invalid.net>  wrote:

>
> >>> On Sat, 05 May 2012 22:27:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>

> >>>> Warren Penn<haplogrou...@gmail.com>  wrote:

>
> >>>>> (If this killing was done by Native Americans they should be hunted
> >>>>> down and shot)
>
> >>>>     Sounds more like something rednecks would do for kicks and glory
> >>>>     ......
>
> >>>>     Maybe the natives will follow your advice as to the proper
> >>>>     response.   :-)
>
> >>> White buff meat is really tasty .... yum, yum, yummy in the tummy.
>
> >>> Ya fuckin moonbat.
>
> >>     Natives should direct their attention to the redneck/cowboy sector
> >>     and act
> >>     accordingly. *I* will never convict them.
>
> > You have no idea who did it, yet you damn a whole race based on your
> > bigotry.
>
> > You're no better than the "kill a honky for Trayvon" idiots.
>

> well shit i vote for killing a martian for trayvon shit would go over better- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you.

[iL_WeReo]

It's a pity.

[Way Back Jack]

On 08 May 2012 16:43:25 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:

> Op 2012-05-08, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:
>> On 07 May 2012 13:53:37 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>>> Op 2012-05-07, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:
>>>> The weak are one thing but the wolfpack invariably nails the healthy but
>>>> young. Sorta like sacrificing your kids for no reason. The weak, elderly
>>>> bison are going to die anyway.
>>>
>>> It's a genetic issue, you see the Bison are genetic engineers and they
>>> take great pride in their stock. It's not about health, there are many
>>> healthy calfs, it's about their abilities relative to other healthy
>>> calves. Bison are sophisticated creatures.
>>
>> The wolves kill the young, both healthy and unhealthy. Thus, what we have
>> left are geezer bison.
> [...]
>
> Either way it is a great shame the white man 'culture' has destroyed
> both the Buffalo in North America and their cousins in Eurazia.
> Literally all that is left here is a memory, a statue (I drive past
> it to 'work'). Not so long ago we had the Wisent here (I belief it
> was called, we don't even know the names anymore.) But in this
> senseless destruction of white man culture also may be the last hope,
> which is that this crazed culture will eventually sensesly destroy
> itself also; maybe then many animals can return and white man would be a
> little wiser (I'm not holding my breath on that one though).

You talking about those white boys who used to drive the bisons off of
cliffs?

[Pls Stop Cross-Posting This Crap]

"iL_WeReo" <calja...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:8ca91f48-de3a-4200...@r5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

[Pls Stop Cross-Posting This Crap]

"iL_WeReo" <calja...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6b46357a-5c8c-4b1b...@a3g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...

[Jos Boersema]

What's wrong with a good hunt ? I'm talking about the near total
destruction of wild nature by the white man culture who never has enough,
who can't control themselves individually or as a group, nation or
Empire. For the sake of their 2nd car another nuclear reactor factory
must be opened, the concequences be damned. For the sake of their cozy
conveniences slaves in the third world and nations far away must suffer
the bloodlust of their armies. You know what i'm talking about, everyone
knows; the question is when is someone going to do something about it,
white or native or anyone else, I don't even care who as long as action
is taken.

[Way Back Jack]

Yeah, driving millions of buffs over the cliff is a real sporting hunt.

Seems to me that white conservationists/environmentalists -- who prefer to
be called "greens" -- have reestablished buffs and wolves in the US. Lord
know that without their efforts, buffs, wolves, and other endangered
species would be gone. Haven't seen any other race step up to the plate in
this venture, preferring to sit at home and whine.

These greens are now quite powerful, so have no fear. They plan to restore
all of wild nature by taking away your car, oil burner, wood stove,
computer, electronic toys, plastic that covers your Big Macs --- Big Macs?
Hell, they're going to be obsolete too.

[Jos Boersema]

It looks that these 'greens' are being co-opted by the ruling classes,
or at least www.infowars.com had some articles on that. Al Gore is a
good example, obviously that guy doesn't care for the environment to
the degree that he would cut his own use of it. But why does he pretend
it then: because they have figured out various scams they can run. For
example taxing people for CO2, which could eventually mean you are
going to be be taxed for breathing (if they can get there). You could
force all kinds of regulations and tyranny on people using the environment
as a pretext; from giving up land ownership to taxation, restructions
on travel and so on.

Makes me think of how you snap a spoon: you bend it to one side, then
the other and you go back and forth a few times, each time bending it
too far back past the proper position. First they ruin the environment
too much, then they use that to whitewash their push to protect it in
a tyrannical way too much without ever caring for their own use of
course. What they (ruling classes, big banks, the (ultra) rich) refuse
to do is stop being so wasteful themselves first. But this is where
the common people are to blame themselves, because they too don't really
care, all they can think about is the fuel price for their car (mostly).
So the common people allow a condition of deterioration of the environment
to occur because they fail to behave properly themselves as well, which
then can be used to excessively 'deal' with the problem.

The course missing in all of it is a sensible balance between human
use, regulations and individually taking responsibility behaving morally.
I also think that the economic system being used fuels the forever
expanding use of nature (and people). The system is a run-away system,
forever trying to get richer abusing people and nature, so forever more
people are trying to get their share of a pie. This way the empire
expands into other nations, but it also extends into nature, thus it is
destroyed. If you compare to that another type of economy where (as I
would suggest) everyone has their share of natural resources as an
individual inalienable right, where a large chunk of the nation is
left for nature / recreation / hunting (or whatever), where the companies
are democracies so that the money spreads around and you don't get this
concentration into the bosses who then abuses the people and fight with
other bosses who can be the richest by abusing all the slaves in society,
and where investment credit is socialized so that it doesn't fund these
abusive companies, then I think you get a system that revolves more about
an economic balance where wealth imbalances will be less and the
'ideology' (morality) of fair trade could find a healthier soil to grow
up in. Such a system could have a less intense pressure to expand the
uses of nature (and people).

There is some effort to have a more sensible use of nature, such as with
fair trade and chemical-free farms and that stuff, but sadly it is
fairly marginal while it should be the bulk of the economy. When you get
a capitalist exploitation economy, you end up with poor slaves, and they
can not afford properly produced goods. Hence at some point I think you
need a political solution using laws, to underpin an existing moral
behavior of enough of the people since you can't have laws without enough
of the people wanting them and already living by them.

[Way Back Jack]

Al Gore is a hypotical fraud who simply wants his name tied to some cause.
His "carbon footprint" is immense with him jetting all over the globe,
lining his 1.5 mile driveway with elec. lights, heating his pools .....

But you need to keep supporting Dear Leader Comrade Obama who's in the
process of trashing capitalism and free enterprise. From the fossil fuel
perspective, he has killed drilling, nixxed the oil pipeline, murdered
refineries, and will install and cap-and-tax scheme on all of those
wasteful consumers. And like you, he wants equal outcome for everyone
because this country was built on the backs of the oppressed for the
benefit of a relative handful of racist, homophobic, misogynist capitalist
pigs.

When I wore a younger man's clothes, I crusaded for global zero population
growth as a solution to the depletion of resources. Alas, it was only the
white eyes who answered my call, to the point that they are being rendered
obsolete. Blacks, browns, most Far East Asians, and Muslims rejected my
exhortations, and so zero population growth has been given up as a lost
cause.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-09, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

> On 09 May 2012 14:44:48 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>> Op 2012-05-08, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:
>>> On 08 May 2012 19:23:30 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>>>> Op 2012-05-08, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

Don't blame me for your ignorance, plz. I have nothing to do with this
Obama-Hitler power. I am for free trade and free enterprice, but not for
the insanities of capitalist excesses. Land should not be traded and owned
as you may own a spoon or even a home. Businesses should not be dictatorships.
Money should not be concentrated too much, so excessive wealth has to be
outlawed. Owning nothing should not be outlawed, because people would have
soil and can work if they get hungry, and work together with what they got.

You blindly categorize me in some prejudiced categories, which are both
wrong (capitalism has excessive trade in everything and communism has
excessive planning and totalitarianism). Can't you see I'm proposing something
different that is both and neither ?

Population becomes stable once you have a fairly decent nation in which there
are not too many opressed slaves, because once people get deeply opressed
they start to breed (to ensure their survival perhaps.) We have population
shrinking in our nations, because we have fairly decent health care and other
care systems. Only the ignorant capitalists in Government and their socialist
cronies cause our populations to rise because they suck in cheap foreign
labor to fatten their wallets at the expense of all. Without such artificial
influx for greed sake, we would be shrinking, whihc is what we need because
there are too many people here per square mile (the Netherlands.) So don't
worry about things like life and death too much, just do Justice and it seems
it will work itself out. Don't play god, just play a humble Justice seeking
human being then we should all do ok I guess (hope).

It is also not possible to ask for global anything to be enforced by any
sort of a Government or clique, as that will only be Imperial. Almost all
problems can and should be handled nationally, those few that remain can
be dealt with by multilateral free negotiation within the context of national
Sovereignty which means there is no enforcing of anything possible, only
freedom and the potential for brotherhood ... or war. Taking that choice away
in some kind of globalist nightmare is no solution, but tyranny, and that
means choosing war.

Back to the topic:
Maybe we should be glad the white buffalo was killed, because after all it
is only a symbol of a predicted time frame. It is not the changes itself,
it doesn't do anything, it is a Bison. It eats grass, that's it. The symbol
has been there, the sign was given. Apparently people wheren't going to
do anything but just stare at this white Buffalo as a miracle, as if it was
their miracle cure. Don't work that way: people have to get active and will
only get the results that match their efforts. It may be a sign to get active,
but it isn't the action itself. Typical white man way to think that everything
will be solved for them, typical Jesus fans way, consumerist. Hang back and
wait for magic boy to come save them. No: got to fight hard, then win. I'm
glad the white Buffalo is gone, one less destraction for the people, more time
to focus on what's needed. It's death is also a sign that things are not well,
and that there are enemies out there that need to be dealt with.

[Way Back Jack]

Translation: You're in favor of free enterprise as long as it's not too
free. It must be heavily regulated as it has been for a long time, and we
see how *that* has worked out: Greece, France, Spain, UK, Italy ... and
since the 1930s in the US where it's not working out so well now either.
Socialism's nothing new.

The population does indeed need thinning and I applaud the Euro-Twits for
their voluntary efforts in this regard. Problem is that you believed that
you needed laborers and opened your doors to the 3rd World which has
ripped-down those doors and is flooding-in unchecked.

As for the buff, he's the least of my worries.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-10, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

That is so superficial that you have broken this discussion down now.
This superficiality you exhibit is why you do down the tubes as an Empire.

How can you compare what I am saying with these what those states have done,
or what the U$A has done. Did they distribute the soil ? No. Did they
democratize the companies ? No. Did they turn their flakey neo-Greek
democracies into real democracies as I have developed ? No. Did they
socialize investment credit in the way I have suggested ? No. All my
points they have not done. But you want to compare what they did to what
I say. It doesn't look you're in this for the debate, for the content, or
are you.

I want trade to be so free, so that there is neither income or profit
taxes, just a fixed head-tax which could be levied outside any economy
controlling taxation schemes. Cash will also persist. The economy will
be free trade within the national borders, but on the borders we defend
our markets against for example slavery in other nations so that they
can not abuse those slaves to pass economic shocks through our nations
and eviscerate our nation. There will be laws that prevent dictatorship
in the economy, and stimulate democracies of groups. Dictatorship in
the economy, that is businesses run by a dictator or a 'boss' if you
prefer with dictatorial powers "anything he/she says goes, even if
all agree they are all fired." There will be laws that ensure everyone
has economic initiative possible by owning forever an equal share of
the natural resources. These laws prevent dictatorial economies to
come about, which grow up in the excessive freedom and use it to turn
everything into dictatorship. First corporate dictatorship, and then
it morphes into state tyranny dictatorship. But it is all capitalism,
what you call communism, that is just more capitalism in its final stages.

> The population does indeed need thinning and I applaud the Euro-Twits for
> their voluntary efforts in this regard. Problem is that you believed that
> you needed laborers and opened your doors to the 3rd World which has
> ripped-down those doors and is flooding-in unchecked.

I was and am against the flood of cheap labor, and protested against it.
I am also against the same policies in the U$A wrt Mexicans getting in.
Mexico for its share is so thoroughly corrupt that its people obviously
need to wage an armed revolution there. They will probably have a hard
fight coming with their maffias.

> As for the buff, he's the least of my worries.

[Way Back Jack]

Like I said: typical share-the-wealth Euro-twit socialism with equal
outcome for all.

How's it all working out for you?

>> The population does indeed need thinning and I applaud the Euro-Twits for
>> their voluntary efforts in this regard. Problem is that you believed that
>> you needed laborers and opened your doors to the 3rd World which has
>> ripped-down those doors and is flooding-in unchecked.
>
> I was and am against the flood of cheap labor, and protested against it.
> I am also against the same policies in the U$A wrt Mexicans getting in.
> Mexico for its share is so thoroughly corrupt that its people obviously
> need to wage an armed revolution there. They will probably have a hard
> fight coming with their maffias.
>
>> As for the buff, he's the least of my worries.

.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-11, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

I do not want to 'share the wealth,' I want to share the natural resources.
People can then work and trade. Those who are lazy become hungry, that will
show them the way to work. Where do they work ? Do they have to crawl at the
feet of the rich to get a job ? No: they have natural resources they can
work with, individually or in league with others like themselves.

The outcome is unlikely to be equal for all. Those who work hard will probably
do pretty decently. That is something new, that doesn't happen under either
capitalism or a plan-economy. If you work hard, you just get exploited harder
by the capitalists or ruling cliques. The idea that working hard to wealth
happens under capitalism is a myth. It is not working hard that garners wealth
under capitalism, but abusing slaves. To get to that position of abuse may
require one to work hard, granted. But the pursuit of such wealth at the end
is not an honorable activity. Some of the most hard working people in the
capitalist pipe-dream are small business owners. Are they rich: no. They are
often struggling to make ends meet. When do they get rich ? Once they succeed
in such a way *that they can start sucking on the teet of their slaves.* To
protect that great sucking by the capitalists is what capitalist society is
all about, including the maintenance of its myths.

A plan economy is no better, rather it is the end-result of the wealth
contentration that occurs within capitalism. It is therefore not so much of
a surprise if it would come out that the rumor that the Rothshilds banking
house - the most hard-core capitalists by trade, and not by accident the
scum of the Earth - has created communism is true. Why did they do it (if so) ?
Because they knew a totalitarian planne-economy under their control was the
uttermost end of the capitalism model in which they rose to the top through
devious trades and outright criminality. Capitalism eats not only the slaves,
but eventually eats the very free trade system itself in which their abuses
could rear their ugly heads as easily as they have. The reason this happens
is the concentration of wealth within the financier class, who dominates
the markets and businesses and then turns these into abusive operations. that
is a plan-economy tyranny in the making. Now all they needed was to white-
wash it, so that it would appear good. Their answer: communism, pretend that
the plan-economy is good !

However not fully ripened capitalism is also extremely profitable for the
big banking houses, and so it does not matter that much to them whether the
model is a totalitarian plan-economy under their direct control, or if elements
of free trade persist. By yanking (heh) the economy back and forth between
these two apparent ideological extremes they can keep the people busy in a
false fight in which the bankers are the winners in both - at least those
apt enough to be capable of ruling a planned-economy as well. That way they
keep the people busy and fighting amongst themselves.

> How's it all working out for you?

I am the one who wants a free trade society with opportunity for all. You
are the one who wants dictatorship to rule the lives of all, for the sake
of greed and the pretence of freedom - for the sake of freedom without
responsibility you might say, as some native people have correctly pointed
out, but as usual nobody listened to them. I am the one who wants to prevent
a planned economy hell. The world you see is the result of ideologies you
support, you support them under the banner of capitalism others under the
guise of socialism or even communism, but at the end of the day it is all
economic dictatorship. I don't support your ideas or what happens in the world
because of them, such as in the U$A or China: I support another model that
you seem intend on pretending not to notice. My whole model revolves around
free trade, and to make that work in a stable and free way I have made certain
solutions to keep power distributed permanently, to prevent the concentration
of power. Not wealth, although that too because too much wealth contentration
equals power concentration, which will lead to many abuses. But that isn't the
essence of it, the essence is to distribute power: land ownership, power over
the policies of your own company, a true national democracy, and to deal with
the menace of free for profit investment credit which turns an economy into
a dictatorship.

American whites do not understand this, and I did not expect you to understand
it for a long time still. You are a confused people. That is why I post in
alt.native, because I think the natives understand these things.

>>> The population does indeed need thinning and I applaud the Euro-Twits for
>>> their voluntary efforts in this regard. Problem is that you believed that
>>> you needed laborers and opened your doors to the 3rd World which has
>>> ripped-down those doors and is flooding-in unchecked.
>>
>> I was and am against the flood of cheap labor, and protested against it.
>> I am also against the same policies in the U$A wrt Mexicans getting in.
>> Mexico for its share is so thoroughly corrupt that its people obviously
>> need to wage an armed revolution there. They will probably have a hard
>> fight coming with their maffias.
>>
>>> As for the buff, he's the least of my worries.

[Way Back Jack]

America rose to be the greatest country on this blue rock via capitalism,
free enterprise, and the creation of wealth which provided for a healthy
tax base to benefit all. Capitalism with minimum regulation and safety nets
for those unable to compete are the tickets. Is it perfect? No, but it's
the best system humanity has developed.

The downfall began in the 1930s and went into the toilet beginning in the
60s with "The Great Society." This idea of equal distribution of natural
resources is beyond incredulity. Such a scheme cannot even be figured
mathematically for an even distribution. And when someone dies, his share
goes to the next baby born. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

You think that the Natives had the right idea? Pooping in holes,
communicating via smoke, living to the ripe old age of 33? No thanks.

If there's any dictatorship, it exists in the politically-correct, Peoples'
socialist domains of Europe with rules and regulations governing every
aspect of your lives. American slavery ended in 1865, Dutchie, although it
is still practiced in sub-Saharan Africa.

[spiritrising]

my great great grandfather lived to be 87, my grandfather lived to be
92, the first grandfather did poop in holes and lived off the land as
best he could. but 33? nope that didn't happen.

[Way Back Jack]

Yeah, it happened right into the 19th century.

[spiritrising]

i'm 71 go figure that one out

[Way Back Jack]

So I'm guessing you've eschewed 20th and 21st century medicine and
lifestyle recommendations and have instead emulated Gramps, chewing
sassafras leaves and whatever ...

[spiritrising]

i'm a doctor and for myself i do not use western medicine to heal my
self when i have problems, i use things out of my culture....have you
ever wondered where western medicine got its start? try herbs! did you
know your black ancestors had many diseases that are still around today?

[Way Back Jack]

Imagine how long you and your grandpappies would have lived with today's
Western medicine.

..have you
> ever wondered where western medicine got its start? try herbs!

Have you ever realized that medicine has advanced since the the first
"magic" potions and elixirs were tried?

>did you
> know your black ancestors had many diseases that are still around today?

Especially in de motherland where e.g., the South African Minister of
Health as recently as 2005 prescribed garlic and lemon to cure AIDS.

And even here in the US of A where greaseburgers, moon pies, fry bread, and
Mountain Dew comprise a huge part of their diet.

Of course, my younger black relatives seem to suffer from the
disproportionate share of "lead poisoning" and expire way before their
time.

Know what I be sayin'?

[spiritrising]

your majic potions and cures are of white origin, not native american.
fry bread being the only thing native you mention, was once fried in
animal fat, not the concoctions of todays world, but then natives used
to have to walk/run anywhere they needed to go, and work hard with their
bodies which gave the calamities of today no where to stay. for many
natives until the white man brought his diseases with him and spread
them around, disease was scarce to native societies before that. that
was named the columbian exchnage which during the settlers from europe
brought many lifestyles with them and spread of dieseases unheard of in
the americas. the most notable one being smallpox which killed
thousands, other dieseases known to be brought to the americas was
measles, scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, influenza, whooping cough,
tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria, chicken pox, and the big one venereal
disease. thats your heritage not mine. leading cause of death to a
native american before the settlers was physical in nature not disease.
many had long lived lives before the whites came.

[Way Back Jack]

Thanks to white immunology, many of those diseases of microbial etiology
are well-controlled, and with more self-disclipine, that would also be the
case with type 2 diabetes, alcoholism, and methamp addiction.

I wonder what % of natives would prefer to their ancestors' lifestyles and
culture.

[spiritrising]

i could say with accuracy, 100% would prefer to go back to owning all of
the americas and all invaders to disappear or go back to where they came
from, and to take their problems and technology along with them..

[Way Back Jack]

Hard to believe that it's 100%, given my (admittedly) small contact in 68
yrs. with Natives who embrace their ancestry and yet wouldn't trade it for
the lifestyles they now enjoy.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-12, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
[...]

> i could say with accuracy, 100% would prefer to go back to owning all of
> the americas and all invaders to disappear or go back to where they came
> from, and to take their problems and technology along with them..

Agreed. It might happen when the whites destroy themselves using their
own technologies, which their top bosses are already planning (world war
3 & population reduction.) It is evident from this yankee character also
posting in this thread that there is little ideological hope for Americans;
they all think like him even the best of them. They are so superficial
there is no debate possible.

I neither see a debate possible in Europe, although those people are more
critical of the ruling class criminals then the American whites. Something
might be possible in northern/western Europe some day, I hope. Perhaps
in the same way something will one day be possible in northern Americas,
where the climate is a bit harder and colder, which tends to make people
smarter and more disciplined. The best places to work for improvement
of society are generally in the north I think, because of the cold. It all
seems a bit hopeless, but the south is more hopeless then the north, in
general. If that offends anyone that's too bad, I think it is true and
maybe is something that should be used to apply our energies smarter.
Once the north gets it right, maybe the south will see and also want it.

[Jos Boersema]

It can be figured mathematically, and although not likely with precision
it can be done roughly so that the variation in natural wealth that
people get is not too much. Nothing ridicilous here. If anything is
ridicilous it is this practice of having free sales of land to the highest
bidder, a recipe for wealth becoming concentrated, for criminals to stash
their loot and for parasites to suck on hard working people doing nothing
but passively 'owning.'

> You think that the Natives had the right idea? Pooping in holes,
> communicating via smoke, living to the ripe old age of 33? No thanks.
>
> If there's any dictatorship, it exists in the politically-correct, Peoples'
> socialist domains of Europe with rules and regulations governing every
> aspect of your lives. American slavery ended in 1865, Dutchie, although it
> is still practiced in sub-Saharan Africa.

[Way Back Jack]

The only thing ridiculous here is that you're just another same-old,
same-old moonbat who just doesn't learn that socialism won't work.

[Way Back Jack]

On 13 May 2012 09:05:47 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:

> Op 2012-05-12, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
> [...]
>> i could say with accuracy, 100% would prefer to go back to owning all of
>> the americas and all invaders to disappear or go back to where they came
>> from, and to take their problems and technology along with them..
>
> Agreed. It might happen when the whites destroy themselves using their
> own technologies, which their top bosses are already planning (world war
> 3 & population reduction.) It is evident from this yankee character also
> posting in this thread that there is little ideological hope for Americans;
> they all think like him even the best of them. They are so superficial
> there is no debate possible.
>
> I neither see a debate possible in Europe, although those people are more
> critical of the ruling class criminals then the American whites. Something
> might be possible in northern/western Europe some day, I hope. Perhaps
> in the same way something will one day be possible in northern Americas,
> where the climate is a bit harder and colder, which tends to make people
> smarter and more disciplined. The best places to work for improvement
> of society are generally in the north I think, because of the cold. It all
> seems a bit hopeless, but the south is more hopeless then the north, in
> general. If that offends anyone that's too bad, I think it is true and
> maybe is something that should be used to apply our energies smarter.
> Once the north gets it right, maybe the south will see and also want it.

Moonbats closing ranks.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-13, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

I wish. We will win when using this DAVID/9-roads program. Maybe not at
first because of people like you, but I think eventually you won't be
able to defeat it. You will constantly fall down and crash your nations
because you get too much wrong and hence the corruption always overtakes
you, while we will constantly do a lot better on many fronts using these
systems.

We want democracy, free trade, fair trade, rule of law, friendship with
other free nations. You seem to want tyranny, dictatorial economics, abusing
people where possible, rule of the gangs in power and world domination. We
will win, you will loose.

[spiritrising]

lifestyles they enjoy? no job, no food, barely having a building to live
in that still leaks when it rains??? try again

[Way Back Jack]

Really? Rather sudden wasn't it? As recently as 2005 they were
highly-educated, gainfully-employed, handsomely-rewarded contributors to
society, enjoying the American dream. They must have fallen victim to
Obama's destruction of society, like so many others.

[Way Back Jack]

When you started talking equal sharing of natural resources, which of
course is strategiacally and mathematically impossible even if it were
desirable -- which it's not -- you gave yourself away as another
starry-eyed moonbat socialist.

Socialism won't work, son. One day you'll learn.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-13, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
> Way Back Jack wrote:
[...]

>> Hard to believe that it's 100%, given my (admittedly) small contact in 68
>> yrs. with Natives who embrace their ancestry and yet wouldn't trade it for
>> the lifestyles they now enjoy.
>
> lifestyles they enjoy? no job, no food, barely having a building to live
> in that still leaks when it rains??? try again

That's only the beginning I think, they're going to get raped - wow I was
just writing that and realize they are already being raped literally by
the TSA now.

You would have a job if we managed to divide the natural resources in the
nation to the degree we want to reserve them for human uses. Dare go claim
your land ? Not just some handwaving about broken treaties, but knotting
together as a political and economic force with many others and go get
our land ?

[Way Back Jack]

On 13 May 2012 14:59:20 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:

> Op 2012-05-13, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
>> Way Back Jack wrote:
> [...]
>>> Hard to believe that it's 100%, given my (admittedly) small contact in 68
>>> yrs. with Natives who embrace their ancestry and yet wouldn't trade it for
>>> the lifestyles they now enjoy.
>>
>> lifestyles they enjoy? no job, no food, barely having a building to live
>> in that still leaks when it rains??? try again
>
> That's only the beginning I think, they're going to get raped - wow I was
> just writing that and realize they are already being raped literally by
> the TSA now.
>
> You would have a job if we managed to divide the natural resources in the
> nation to the degree we want to reserve them for human uses. Dare go claim
> your land ? Not just some handwaving about broken treaties, but knotting
> together as a political and economic force with many others and go get
> our land ?

A fart in a hurricane.

[Jos Boersema]

This will work, because if people don't they go hungry, then they have
to work on their land and attempt to feed themselves and trade in the
market. The market will only buy what has a minimun of quality. Hence
it will work. This is how trade and markets function. But what we will
be free off is that people are denied the ability to work by their
own hand and having to grovel and slave at the crony capitalist cliques
that rule both plan-economic socialism and capitalism, having no land
to make their own lives and trade with. Capitalists will always want
an amount of destituted unemployed people, so that they can scare the
rest of the roaming slaves with unemployement and that way keep wages
below what they are worth.

The system as I propose it has next to nothing in common with communism.
Some time ago I compared my system with teh 10 planks of communism, and
found an almost 100% disagreement. What Mao did was to collectivize
everything, do away with private property, run everything army style.
I do just the opposite, property rights are enshrined in the Constitution.
The people are free to trade what they make, and engage in contracts also
about their labor. They are free to start businesses, a right the Government
can not infringe (also enshrined in the Constitution.) They can even up
to a degree trade investment capital to each other for profit, but the
excess of that is cut off because it is dangerous as it brings to power
the fascists, aka the bankers. Land (natural resources) are also not
traded, but they are distributed by Constitutional law. Why ? Becuase I
don't trust any Government, or Judiciary, even though I made them ultra
democratic even more then the native indians have ever done (on a large
scale at least, fwik). Half my Constitution is about keeping the Government
under control, that is about 120 laws against the wild power of Government.

What you conveniently gloss over is that the U$A is ruled by an unelected
Government, and has so for a long time: the big banks and the rich. You
love them, perhaps because they are fascists rather then communists,
but to me they are a dangerous wild private form of Government that has
to be brought in line. Banks are a Government (particularly the plutocratic
cliques, the most powerful of them), that's what you don't want to see.
Unelected and unaccountable, that can not stand.

The amount of ideological error is so much and so deep that it will be
difficult to break through the walls of ignorance. You are a fine example
of this problem; hence I don't think we will have results until a lot of
people have died from the cliques that rule the world. I tend to think
at least half of humanity has to die before the other half is even
willing to doubt their ignorance, let alone understand what needs to be
done, let alone do it. But if the truth isn't done, eventually humanity
will end back in the stone age from its own technological abuses sooner
or later. Interestingly for the native Americans, that's not even a sad
prospect, as they where stone age people only centuries ago and probably
most where doing better then they do now.

You can choose to do the truth now, or face the deadly concequences of
your own technological abuses.

[Way Back Jack]

Heard all this horseshit in the 1960s, sonny.

Think up something new, why don't ya.

[spiritrising]

where in the hell did you ever hear that? while some reservations may
have more money, all are poor as dirt. nothing has changed since 1851.
some of us escaped or were put in white indian schools to be
indoctrinated/beat into the white society, some of us have earned our
way through the white world as i have done, many never had that
opportunity or figured out how to use those who have tormented us for
many years. some tribes such as those in washington state and north
oregon have been overtaken by whites that its even hard to tell who is
indian or not as they look more white than indian, but not mine we all
look as we should with very little white infiltrating the tribe.

look at pine ridge in the videos below and show me where they ever had
wealth of any kind, it still goes on today, and many of us in other
tribes do what we can to help pine ridge using the lakota fund.
soooo.....how about i sign you up for a donation to pine ridge to help
those folks to eat or a place that is dry to sleep, or maybe some
clothes to wear? you game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8M6ZZJdTEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq0Joi1ELps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvME_ci00I

donate to help:
http://friendsofpineridgereservation.org/

http://www.lakotafunds.org/

[spiritrising]

and you know why its that way? because of people like you and your greed.

[spiritrising]

Way Back Jack wrote:
> On 13 May 2012 15:52:37 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>
>> Op 2012-05-13, Way Back Jack schreef<inv...@invalid.net>:
>>> On 13 May 2012 11:21:22 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>>>
>>>> Op 2012-05-13, Way Back Jack schreef<inv...@invalid.net>:
>>>>> On 13 May 2012 09:05:47 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Op 2012-05-12, spiritrising schreef<miketwo...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> i could say with accuracy, 100% would prefer to go back to owning all of
>>>>>>> the americas and all invaders to disappear or go back to where they came
>>>>>>> from, and to take their problems and technology along with them..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed. It might happen when the whites destroy themselves using their
>>>>>> own technologies, which their top bosses are already planning (world war

>>>>>> 3& population reduction.) It is evident from this yankee character also

you must be a christian white by the way you speak. so why post here on
a native american news feed? ahhhh i get it wanting to convert us like
the others tried. lol

[Way Back Jack]

Where the hell did I hear that? From the Indians themselves who happened to
be coworkers in the "white" world. If life is hard on the rez, then get
off the rez.

Duh.

[Way Back Jack]

It's that way because anyone with a 3-digit IQ knows that socialism is a
recipe for disaster.

[Way Back Jack]

White? You mean like the Euro-Twit Dutch boy? He's the one trying to
convet ya, chief.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-13, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

I never scored below 130 on any test, I'm sometimes called a genius by
people who know me. I don't know if that's true, I'm not that smart either.
But what is true is that i learned myself programming, and I programmed
a 25 000 lines of code program with which you can run a democratic vote
in a secure way. It is a flexible program, allowing for any form of
encryption of the ballot, any form of communication for the ballots,
any amount of votes per ballot, any vote content that a voter may care
to vote (not only multiple choice on cooked answers), and a free comment
which is both a social innovation for voting and a security matter not
found in any other implementation. We tested it with a political party
here in the Dutch nation, it worked fine; I competed with a program made
by professors in the west of my nation, I won - they liked my program
better. Frankly it was better, because fundamentally more flexible. For
example the other implementation had only one encryption method (FWIK),
hardcoded into their software. I programmed it for Unix, and so made it
such that it would call any encryption software you would care to run
over a particular ballot, to be configured per voter if you wanted to.
This program is of course still available for free: http://www.law4.org/sede

Because it works, I belief the top of this political party got scared,
and they tried to burry it although we had won the vote on the party
congress to go ahead with this wider so-called "e-democracy" project.
The UNIDO (United Nations) also contacted me, as their staff wanted to
use it for elections inside their organization. Later they told me their
bosses had told them to stop, and they did not know when. The bosses of
the political party I mentioned also killed it off, and they where the
only ones advicing their people on the congress to vote against democracy.
And that is a political party who's only aim is democracy. Sadly the
article in Linux magazine contains an essential error, which they have
elected not to correct even though I asked them to (they have not understood
how the anonymity is secured, which is not through encryption but through
an anonymously registered communication channel, such as an anonymous
e-mail account). The article was otherwise positive.

To put into perspective what 25 000 lines of code and the accompanying
manuals, guides and FAQs is: if you print it all out double sided, and
you get one of those big archiving maps (that used to be this dark grey),
with the two iron clasps in it, you will have it full (I have it printed
one sided and that gets you two of them). I wrote this all in a foreign
language, English, and programmed every last comma and dot in it by hand.
It is written in the C language, sometimes called a hard language but
it is beautiful, and also Zshell script. The program has many features,
and also has its own internal scripting language to program the ballots,
which has a lot of features as well. For example you can randomize the
order in which questions appear on each ballot. You can also execute
commands into the ballot, and that way you can write your ballot in any
computer language you wished to program it in. The program is now on
the list to be included in GNU once there is a maintainer. GNU is the
mother software that is used by Linux systems, Linux is the kernel, GNU
is the basic software. As far as I know, and as people of this party
noted, the Dutch nation is at the forefront of these developments with
two implementations (at the time, it is now some years ago.) I think
this program represents a number of breakthroughs in this area.

How can I do that if I am an idiot ? So your argument that I am an idiot
fails I would say. I also did the highest education that you can do up
to the age of 18 (VWO). That "socialism just doesn't work" is dumb hand-
waving ignoring the fact that the model I propose is unlike any other
socialism henceforth proposed, and it even centers around free trade.

Perhaps you are the ignorant individual you are speaking about ? If so,
you could learn some things here now, if you quit being intellectually
dishonest, misrepresenting what I say and blaming me for crimes other
did using systems that are not just different from mine but usually
the direct opposite both in the tyrannical nature of Government as in
the collectivization of the economy into a totalitarian plan economy.
Do you even know what those terms mean ? Could you explain them in your
own words, and show that you understand how an economy where each gets
their share of natural resources, can work and trade them at his leisure,
where companies are democratized once the starter leaves and investment
credit is socialized, excesive wealth is maximized by law (at 30 times
average of the nation), and the Government is formed by delegates from
groups of 50 people who form councils ? Can you re-write that to me in
your own words and say something intelligent about it, so that I can at
least verify you know what I am talking about ? If you can't, then we
know you are just not smart enough to have this debate - as your previous
babble seems to (sadly) suggest (handwaving and off base insults are your
trade marks so far). Please do better, you only bring shame and regret
over yourself once you do start to understand these things. Good luck,
I am here to help you understand if you have more difficulties with it.

I have worked long and hard on my systems, starting from basic logic
about what is needed and how trade works and where it does not work
(it works for quality of what is produced, but not when power enters
the trades, hence power must be cancelled and you can do that by giving
each individual the same amount of power because then it cancels out
in every trade.) I spend some 5 years or so fulltime developing my
systems, also writing a full Constitution for it, and three more
Constitutions as well as implementation methods. I did a lot of thinking
about these things, while you seem to be new to these issues. I can
help you understand these things if you are willing to learn, apart from
agreeing at least to know what I am saying. But if you are not willing
to even know what I am talking about then I can of course not help you.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-13, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:

I am game, but Americans often use payement systems that don't work for
us here. I get a security warning for http://www.lakotafunds.org/ by
the way.

But you know ... "help buy a car" ?! Help for college ? I can't even
do that for myself. Besides it is bad for the environment to drive
cars, and so I don't want to, neither would I like my little money to
be used so others can buy a car ; ). (lol) But good luck to you don't
mean to put you down but I'd think on second thought I'd rather put
my money on propaganda for my systems so that those at the reservations
one day have their won free soil forever and can live by their own hand.
Direct help, solidarity, is great, but this helps even better I think.
I do think we can reach the whites with my program, or at least some
of them, and grow from there. It is very difficult to get anywhere when
you are alone, because nobody beliefs you when you are alone. Even
the Great Peacemaker of the Kanienkeha / Mohawk nation went together
with his spokesperson. Nobody beliefs a man by himself, but two and they
will think about it - as individually once approached they are outnumbered
I guess, 1:2. I can send my manual for free to the reservation; you may
find it interesting while the U$A is collapsing and descending into civil
war. It comes with combat systems and goals as well.

I don't do it for the money, I do it for the cause, and I'm not an idiot,
nor anonymously hiding on the Internet (Jos Boersema, Wibenaheerd 351,
9736 PZ Groningen, The Netherlands.) But even if someone thinks I am
an idiot: that is all part of the operation. I don't need people who agree
with me because they worship me, only because they understand the content.
I know all about people, they are prone to worship people, idolatry as it's
called. We can't have that, it doesn't work with real democracy where
ppl are supposed to think for themselves and vote sensibly.

I'll send them my manual, I'm always looking to send it somewhere anyway.
If anyone can understand it it is the northern tribes.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-13, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:
> On 13 May 2012 15:52:37 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>> Op 2012-05-13, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:
>>

You didn't, but even if it has similar themes in it they never worked
it out, and where too busy smoking their drugs to do anything. S*x,
drugs & Rock 'n Roll destroyed them; I have heard a rumor that this was
a secret service ruling class operation against them, and it worked.
They are doing it again now with 'occupy wallstreet': spectacle, free s**
'morals,' being wild, drugs. They where literally too stoned to come up
with a Constitution. Some do that again, but not me, and these things
they did are not part of my systems either. They went to music spectacles,
we put funds together for democratic businesses. They slept together
making many children without a proper home, we organize in combat units
and train to free our people from tyranny. They experimented with every
drug they could find, we organize voting groups appoint our spokespersons
and build our Government slowly but carefully. They occupied squares
and buildings throwing rocks and insults, if we protest at all we do
it in nice clothes out in the country with some live music mainly to
network between ourselves and not being a nuisance to others.

> Think up something new, why don't ya.

I did. The way I worked these things out and computed them from a single
logical analyses has not been done before. This is not vague, and hence
it is doable. The idea is simply to distribute power equally to all, to
the degree that is efficiently possible, so that trade becomes fairer.

Capitalism doesn't work, how come you still don't know. My guess is you
are sucking on the teet of labor and you just like that too much to
open your eyes to the suffering.

[Jos Boersema]

Once we get it together we can defeat them, or at least we have a
fighting chance I hope.

[Way Back Jack]

You've already overreached the whites with your guilt trips.

The pot is empty.

[Way Back Jack]

You're nothing but a windbag, a deranged windbag.

Socialism has not, does not, and will not work.

Let history be your guide.

[Way Back Jack]

On 14 May 2012 07:38:27 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:

> Op 2012-05-13, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
>> Way Back Jack wrote:
>>> On 13 May 2012 14:59:20 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>>>
>>>> Op 2012-05-13, spiritrising schreef<miketwo...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> Way Back Jack wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> Hard to believe that it's 100%, given my (admittedly) small contact in 68
>>>>>> yrs. with Natives who embrace their ancestry and yet wouldn't trade it for
>>>>>> the lifestyles they now enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>> lifestyles they enjoy? no job, no food, barely having a building to live
>>>>> in that still leaks when it rains??? try again
>>>>
>>>> That's only the beginning I think, they're going to get raped - wow I was
>>>> just writing that and realize they are already being raped literally by
>>>> the TSA now.
>>>>
>>>> You would have a job if we managed to divide the natural resources in the
>>>> nation to the degree we want to reserve them for human uses. Dare go claim
>>>> your land ? Not just some handwaving about broken treaties, but knotting
>>>> together as a political and economic force with many others and go get
>>>> our land ?
>>>
>>> A fart in a hurricane.
>>
>> and you know why its that way? because of people like you and your greed.
>
> Once we get it together we can defeat them, or at least we have a
> fighting chance I hope.

And they wonder why we refer to these starry-eyed leftists as moonbats.

[Way Back Jack]

Capitalism with minimal regulation is the best system man has devised,
crackpot.

[walt tonne]

Take a look at American Third Position Party.

[spiritrising]

you gonna pay for a place for them to live, or food for them to eat, or
clothes when they leave the res??

[spiritrising]

i believe in the real that is used here, much more stable than the dollar.

[spiritrising]

>> drugs& Rock 'n Roll destroyed them; I have heard a rumor that this was

>> a secret service ruling class operation against them, and it worked.
>> They are doing it again now with 'occupy wallstreet': spectacle, free s**
>> 'morals,' being wild, drugs. They where literally too stoned to come up
>> with a Constitution. Some do that again, but not me, and these things
>> they did are not part of my systems either. They went to music spectacles,
>> we put funds together for democratic businesses. They slept together
>> making many children without a proper home, we organize in combat units
>> and train to free our people from tyranny. They experimented with every
>> drug they could find, we organize voting groups appoint our spokespersons
>> and build our Government slowly but carefully. They occupied squares
>> and buildings throwing rocks and insults, if we protest at all we do
>> it in nice clothes out in the country with some live music mainly to
>> network between ourselves and not being a nuisance to others.
>>
>>> Think up something new, why don't ya.
>>
>> I did. The way I worked these things out and computed them from a single
>> logical analyses has not been done before. This is not vague, and hence
>> it is doable. The idea is simply to distribute power equally to all, to
>> the degree that is efficiently possible, so that trade becomes fairer.
>>
>> Capitalism doesn't work, how come you still don't know. My guess is you
>> are sucking on the teet of labor and you just like that too much to
>> open your eyes to the suffering.
>
> Capitalism with minimal regulation is the best system man has devised,
> crackpot.

i'm one of those so-called 1% people, yeah keep feeding me dollars and
you keep getting poorer, thats the way i like it.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-14, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

> On 14 May 2012 07:35:41 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:

[...]

>> Capitalism doesn't work, how come you still don't know. My guess is you
>> are sucking on the teet of labor and you just like that too much to
>> open your eyes to the suffering.
>
> Capitalism with minimal regulation is the best system man has devised,
> crackpot.

Capitalism, the free trade not only in what you make but also added in
new things that became part of the human experience such as farmland,
money (as in loans) and productive groups (companies), is a system that is
suitible for the stone age. Your economic model, your beloved capitalism,
is an early and middle stone age form of economics. It works there
because being wandering tribes having no permanent clasp on individual
patches of land, there is no money to speak off or investment into
productive groups.

You are a cave man, and that's where you will end up again if you keep
your greedy Imperialism up the way you have. That's not even trying to
insult you as you do me, but I do honestly see it that way. Your
capitalism is for wandering tribes. You don't know how to handle land,
money or group organization. I won't go as far as to say you are an ape,
as apes do not trade at all but they just fight who is strongest. That
is even more primitive, that's what criminals do. So you see i don't try
to insult you when I inform you that you're a cave man. (hehe). lol
Grow up, learn from history that capitalism doesn't work. Note that I
define capitalism as excessive trade, and not as 'trade' as such, as
is the norm with superficial people. I am pro trade, yet against trade
in land, high capital sums, and people in either groups or lone slaves.

[Way Back Jack]

Oh that's right, they're "entitled" to a free ride, rather than, as Euros
did, leave the confines of their ethnic neighborhoods and WORK for their
bread. My bad.

[Way Back Jack]

I'm not one of the 1% but capitalism worked well for me.

And regarding the 1%, if you killed them and seized their wealth, it would
run this govt. about 3 months.

[Way Back Jack]

America was at the top of the heap when their was capitalism with minimal
govt. interference, certainly not now that it has been overregulated and
socialized. It's barely better than the People's Republic of Eurabia.

[Jos Boersema]

Is it important for you to be "at the top of the heap," and how do you
measure it ? I assume you refer to the strength of your Imperial fist,
not the happyness of the people residing in those lands. It is noteworthy
that despite the failed society we in north/western Europe live in, we
apparently come out on top in terms of happyness. Often it is Sweden or
so on top, and we in the Dutch nation are like 5th or whatever. I do not
say that to boast about the Dutch nation, I think it is a failed culture
that needs to be fundamentally reformed, which I intend to do hopefully
soon. The Dutch nation is failed because there is no unity, almost
everything that is important is shoved under the rug, we have weird and
deceptive religions like the Jesus fans and now Bhuddism or whatever it
is doing the rounds. Certainly there is an intense amount of wealth here,
and I eat well, my clothes are good and my home is perfect. We are certainly
wealthy, but as they say: wealth can't buy you happyness. We are not what
we should be. Too much dictatorship, particularly in the economy, lying
politicians - the good ones among them can't break through. I also belief
that we are so wealthy because we live on the dole thanks to the cheap
slavery goods from China and other places. For the first time in our history
we have NO CLOTHING INDUSTRY. Other signs of destruction of our nation are
the emergence of the EU and Euro which means we have become a province in
a corrupt Empire that will not take long to become an administrative
disaster. Notice how we are now one nation with Italy, Greece, France which
could not maintain a parliamentary democracy and have had to step down
into a presidential one just like the U$A has done, which is a more primitive
form of democracy/republic closer to Monarchy. Although I don't think most
Dutch people are insanely stupid, there is still some difference to be
made in understanding economics and Government issues without which we
won't be able to reach a stable situation. The situation in Germany is
largely the same, a nation to which we are quite similar. We are doing
now much better because we have combined two failed systems that to a degree
cancel each other out: plan-economic socialism, and capitalism. Both are
failed, historically and theoretically, but for the time being by hinking
on two broken legs we do somewhat better then we did under the hell that
was capitalism. Capitalism is hell. You don't know that in America yet,
becaues you are a nation that is not even out of its diapers; how old are
you, 2 ? 3 centuries ? No wonder you can't even debate the issues, you got
no history, learned nothing because you haven't experienced anything yet.
But you will mark my words, you will learn all about capitalism. You have
now renamed the collapse of capitalism into tyranny "socialism." Bad
mistake, that way you will prevent yourself from learning, but it is
capitalism to fascism that you are experiencing, under a thin veneer of
socialist plan-economic rethoric. Mind you, I am not plan of plan-economic
socialism.

But you problems are even worse, because you are already the Empire that
we in Europe are just collapsing into with the EU. You both have to
disunite your Empire and restructure your economic system, and understand
all these things at the same time. It is no wonder you can make heads
nor tails out of it all, and will collapse accordingly. I suggest you
get your food, water and ammunition in good order: 3rd world disaster
nation is coming for you, as you brougt it to other nations as recently
as today in the case of Iraq.

You thought capitalism was ok, because you formed your mind in the
beginning when you stole the land from the indians. Then you had the
homestead act, and many people had land, which made for a proper
economy. Exactly the kind of economy I want, but then in a stable manner
where all always have land. I have it from an American tongue who said
it was the greatest thing that happened, this homestead act. It was
from an economic standpoint, and for the whites. It is land distribution.
You defeated the British Empire and their Lords, kuddos, under Washington
(iirc). That cut you off from the degenerated capitalist hell hole that
Europe became not long or even immediately after the slow grinding collapse
of the feudal system. That means you cut yourself off from capitalism
as it progresses through time by concentrating power. You cut off the
power concentration that existed in Europe, just as I will do with my
laws that destroy excessive wealth. That way too you got into a proper
economy, as I want to set up with my model. You had also cut yourself
off from degenerated currencies and used your own currencies, and you
had the genius who printed free money to be issued as tender by the
Government (the orginial greenbacks.) You did all these things which
to a degree got you into an economy that:
- had land distribution
- had a new currency by the people
- had the ultra-wealthy and their criminal operations cut off

To a degree you could live by your own hand, and trade in the markets.
But you made a few enormous mistakes which got you into the current
suffering and chaos you are facing. Rather then affording all an
equal share of the land forever, such as the Israelites did with Joshua,
you thought erroneously that land could be owned as if you could own
a banana or a bowe that you grew or fabricated. Despite the indians
questioning your choices, who apparently knew you where making big
mistakes there, big mistakes. But, probably driven by ignorance and/or
greed, you fell in the ways of the whites of Europe, and so you traded
land as if it was no more then some bananas, fish or deer hides. Still
cave men at heart, I guess, confounded by the principles of land and
farming at an economic level, and not knowing really what should be done
with them (to distribute them), you fell into the old habbits of trade.
That destroyed the principle that many had land, and so now many have
no land and are reduced to being roaming slaves unable to live by their
own hand.

You also did nothing against excessive wealth collection, or the sale
of money for profit, and so within you grew the corrupt ruling classes
that have had Europe in their claw for centuries. This now all seems
to be getting to a head in your nation, as it probably will in Europe
also at some point. These ultra rich people who coalesque most wealth,
most land and power never have enough, which is something you still
seem to have to learn. They will want tyranny, and they are going for it,
it would appear. Maybe then you will learn what capitalism is, and how
you got there. I tell you now what you should do and why, but you do not
care to hear the truth.

As the saying goes: if you don't want to hear, you will have to feel
(Dutch saying.) If you survive your developing tyranny and manage the
courage that you now lack to see and overthrow it, you will have some
experience as a nation and hence could be wiser for it. It seems that
you sorely need some perspective on how 'indespensibble' (not) you are.
It is sad what you do in America, and the many innocent people who will
suffer so badly for what you have done, do and will do.

Economics is about balance, not about racing to the top like a mad
monkey out for control. That is something you will have to learn also.
What you call the socialism that has destroyed your nation, so you can
pretend capitalism is good, is in reality not socialism but fascism.
Who rules your Government, Obama or his puppet masters the big banks
and the media they control ? Case closed. Who buys your Congressmen,
labor unions and the little people out to plan an economy, or your
Goldman Sachs and the Rockefeller cliques ? Case closed. You throw the
world 'socialism' around like a boogie man, that is not going to solve
the problems in your nation (Empire).

I want the red man to be Sovereign, because we need them, the world
needs the northern tribes. We don't need you, yankees with their greed
and Imperialism, the world has enough of that. I don't think the world
is stable without the red man; so the world can choose: face collapse
every 2 or 3 centuries and then eventually a grand destruction, or let
red man be free and give wise words to people who need it. I honestly
belief that. Israel can't do it, they have lost their brains a long
long time ago, although maybe they wil recouperate some of what they
destroyed with their various and ongoing corruptions of their ways.
Even if they do, it is infinitely better to have two good sources and
traditions then one, as either one could be prone to idiosyncrasies.
If red man is not free, I mean the best of them which tend to be the
traditionals, it is game over.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-14, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

Should they become your slaves ? I don't ask that you employ or clothe
anyone, I ask that each get their share of natural resources so
that they can live or die by their own hand, free from the tyrants of
either capitalism or plan-economic socialism. Or are you afraid of
freedom and free trade, are you afraid of people making a living outside
of the capitalist or plutocratic cliques for themselves, their families
and people ?

Without land, people are little more but roaming slaves for the landlords
of land and excessive wealth, the wars and tyrannies they are working on
tirelessly.

Actually I don't ask, we are going to take it; but it sounded nice to say
ask. Just don't get in the way too much, especially not with violence.

[Way Back Jack]

Compare the immigration with the emigration rates in the US. That should
answer your questions as to "the happiness of the residents" here.

Europe is collapsing as we speak. Blame it on socialism as well as the
left-wing political correctness that pervades. Of course America is
getting a taste of that too with the Marxist Obama in charge, the media
that fawns over him, and his supporting cast in the Democrat party which is
certainly not the Democrat party of my youth. Four more years of Obama and
we'll be as totally fucked as is Europe.

[Jos Boersema]

I agree with that; the naive left wing has agreed to let the right wing
let cheap foreign labor in to fatten their wallets and further undermine
the domestic labor markets, they have allowed the big corporations to
become too big, they have failed to severely reduce or even completely
destroy the power of the corporate boards, they have failed to destroy
the stock market and the investment banks so that these capitalists
would no longer dominate and screw the free markets, and they have not
erected serious trade barriers around our nation against slave made
goods of all kinds for which of course we would have to pay a significant
price in prosperity - righteousness for prosperity. But we would
also have gained stability as a concequence. However I now only blame the
left, and it is just a fantasy to think there is that much power in the
left. The greed of the general population is an intense force in
economics, for example. The power of the often deceptive financiers
owned media is also extensive. Also we have to contend with great
capitalist forces from outside our nation, who can manipulate our
currency and foreign trade to make our domestic people angry when these
foreign capitalist powers do not like our domestic policies. To face
all these forces both domestic and foreign and do what is right is not
easy - rather call it impossible at the moment, or so far ...

Being active for the labor union I know how powerless political and
other groups often are. I imagine the right-wing faces the same issues,
they too don't have as much power as they would like (fortunately.)
And so this is how it has gone, thing that where bad where sold for
one reason to the left, and another reason to the right, and that way
our nation is being sold down the river even today. Sad but true, and
not so easy to curb.

> Of course America is
> getting a taste of that too with the Marxist Obama in charge, the media
> that fawns over him, and his supporting cast in the Democrat party which is
> certainly not the Democrat party of my youth. Four more years of Obama and
> we'll be as totally fucked as is Europe.

I think so too that having more of Obama will be *bad* for the U$A. But
don't stare yourself blind on the puppet. It isn't the toy on the hood
that steers the car, it is a network of banking and media powers that
shape the public mind, a complex web of influences including anything
from market choices, criminal gangs, activist people, economic interests
of various blocks and of course: ignorance, not knowing what you want
and why or working for it to make it better. I think on that last thing
a difference could be made, so that 'good people' could focus their
efforts like a blow-torch toward tightly defined logical goals in
well designed organizations. Even if that might not be enough, it might
cause a worthwhile difference. As badly designed nations and economies
collapse, the smarter people will always eventually come to these better
systems, and that way these systems become powerful. Eventually these
systems will rule every nation on Earth, and those who think it should
be different might be thought of as crazed or intellectually challenged.
Truth has a tendency to last, whereas the big lies may appear unshakable
idols but once they are gone they tend to be forgotten as if they never
existed. Who is afraid of Amun Ra, who even knows what it is ? It's
a laughable prop, people who belief in Amun Ra are thought of as insane.
Yet that lie ruled Egypt for millenia as an unshakable foundation of
their culture. That is the way it will be for both capitalism and
totalitarian socialism (I hope).

Now get your ammo in order, lol. You know the DHS purchased hundreds
of millions of hollow points ?

[Way Back Jack]

The left perpetuates the myth that minorities, e.g., the reds, are victims.
This is all done in the name of votes. The left then dishes out perks and
racial preferences which do not have meaningful impact on their lives. For
one thing, it subconsciously diminishes their self-esteem, and yet the dumb
asses keep voting for leftist politicians and so the circle is unbroken.

My ancestors, by contrast, got off the boat and were treated like shit too,
told to live among their own kind in ethnic neighborhoods, but they soon
realized that the way to succeed was to leave those comfortable ethnic
confinements and assimilate as Americans. Period. Not Polack-Americans,
Irish-Americans, German-Americans, etc. You reds should follow the suit,
leave the rez, and stop playing the victim card.

As for land handouts, I already told you that such a scheme, even if it
were desirable -- which it isn't -- is strategically and mathematically
impossible.

[Way Back Jack]

Labor unions are the cause of much of America's distress with Union leaders
making out like bandits and forcing unsustainable fringe fringe benefits
for members such as monthly pensions that are almost as large as the
workers' salaries. This is especially true with Govt. unions.

Obama of course has put the US in the toilet and now he will flush it. The
worst thing is that he has done it intentionally in the quest of a Marxist
society that his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis dreamed of.

[Jos Boersema]

If you went to Nazi Germany, in order to make it you will have to become
a murderous fascist Imperialist. If you went to China, you will have to
become an Imperialist Chicom party clique insider. If you go to America
you will have to pretend to belief that Americans are the indespensible
nation and that when they torture and invade nations for fun and profit
then it is allright. If you want to make it anywhere in the current world,
you will first have to sell your soul (if you have one) and start trying
to abuse your own fellow human in devious underpay of wages.

No thanks, I'll be with the truth and Justice and will just wait until
either we can defeat these erroneous superficial warmongering torturous
ideologies and Big Lies, or they destroy themselves which proably won't
take more then a few centuries at this point.

About that land-distribution is supposedly mathematically impossible:
it isn't impossible. It is a scheme that is less impossible then to have
land in a free trade system, because to have that means every single
square meter could be owned by this or that person, and it all has to
be precisely measured and registered. That is a greater administrative
burden then an equal distribution system would have. Yet it humms along
quite nicely; after initial troubles with land distribution it too will
humm along quite nicely - as even the iron age Israelites have done.
Then we couldn't do it, with all the modern technologies ? You know that
to be false. By the way it is not a 'hand out,' because the Government
has not produced the land and is not handing out what it owns. It is
the recognition and materialization of a right that was already there
and should have been granted since a people became a farming people. The
theft of land by the rich has to be finally brougth to a halt, and people
have to get what they need. Not in the least because they need it, but
also do DENY the land ownership to people who do nothing else with their
lives but try to get rich in order to become wealthy economic parasites.
Even if they let the land lay faul, they do a service to their nation,
even if they don't realize it.

I hope that native indians will shun the white failed culture, so that
they won't go down the drain when it goes down the drain of history.
I realize there are many red nations and it's hard to say they are all
equally good or useful, but there is some really good stuff there that
can not be lost; although the most important things are the basic attitude.
A humanitarian/social indian sitting behind a modern computer wearing
western clothing is more valuable in that sense then a selfish indian
who is still living in a traditional tend. However it would appear to me
that because western civilazation primarely offers greed and various abuses
the right of way, that those indians who shun those primitive behaviors
would be the ones who are more into their own traditional ways. I mean
to say it's not so much about appearences or superficial things but about
the inside.

We will win, white ways will be destroyed, the world will understand and
do my DAVID/9-roads system, and they will never look back, even forget
it has ever been different. Maybe then there will be a chance for peace.

By the way you're right about the modern political left, who play the
guilt card and give hand-outs without giving the indians real power to
rebuild their nation. Real Sovereignty. I'd say they don't need handouts,
they need Sovereignty in their territory; although I know that won't be
easy either especially after what has happened. But I think that is the
way forward. But there you see how Imperialist the so-called left is:
when it comes to it, they side with the Imperialists and the opressors
all too often; and they play a sentimental card. You're right about that.
Handing people the land they need is not about sentimentality, it's damn
hard to make a living off of raw land; it's a big challenge. Those who
fail might die, those nations that can't get it together might see
disastrous famine. It's not about hand-outs, it's about the defeat of
lying tyrannie and Imperialism.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-14, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:
> On 14 May 2012 16:03:55 GMT, Jos Boersema wrote:
>> Op 2012-05-14, Way Back Jack schreef <inv...@invalid.net>:

[...]

I know and agree, Unions are a double edge sword and they can do a lot
of damage when these unions can't get their own internal corruption under
control. One thing with unions in the U$A and in our nation (the Netherlands)
seems to be that U$A unions only play for their own members, while in our
nation the unions play for all whether they are a member or not. I mean
they demand wage increases for all of labor, not a special contract for
their own members. To become a more social nation is not so easy, there
isn't an easy recipe. Perhaps that is now no longer true: DAVID/9-roads
is a fairly easy recipe, and though it doesn't change individual morality,
it gives people a platform of power to see to their own needs and defend
their own interests. I belief this will work, at least to some degree,
unless a people is too disorderly and so on.

> Obama of course has put the US in the toilet and now he will flush it. The
> worst thing is that he has done it intentionally in the quest of a Marxist
> society that his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis dreamed of.

It is hard to pin down a moment when the U$A went heading for the toilet.
The way the indians where treated, which by the way was under the Pope,
one of the most devilish institutions the world has ? Failing to profit
from the wise things some indians where no doubt saying ? Did it all go
wrong when the young states started to war with each other ? Did it all
go wrong when they united in an Empire now gone wildly out of control ?
Did it fail when instead of an open debate about a true democracy, a
number of people decided to create a form of Government that would "protect
the minority," with which they probably meant themselves and their wealth ?
Did they choose the path to hell when they shipped in the blacks as slaves ?
Was all hope lost when they could not shake the idolatry around Jesus ?
Was it heading to the bottom from 1913 onward, when the control over their
money was given to private banks something Americans still don't know ?
Was Rockefeller the straw that broke its back ? When it failed to
demobilize after world war 3 and was already under the spell of Nazi
collaborators such as grandfather Bush, is that when it finally cracked ?
Was it destroyed by "torrent-up / trickle down" Bushonomics, concentrating
power into ever righter, tighter and higher hands ? Was its moral fabric
torn open when JFK was murdered and the way the warren commission aided
in the crime (they should all be in jail for that) ? Did Clinton set the
U$A on the path to destruction when he was caught giving military secrets
to the Chicoms in what may end up being a grave military destruction of
the U$A at the hand of the Chicoms to cover for the economic collapse ?
Or did Obama the great deceiver finally put the last nail in the coffin.
Was it never anything but a myth anyway that the U$A was a nation that
worked properly, like every devious empire beliefs they are the best ever
people and nation ? Or will the U$A people finally decide they have had
enough and put war on their own oligarchy, and lay claim again to the
best ideals of their founding fathers.

What now eh ? I know: DAVID/9-roads.

[spiritrising]

why do you say that? how are they supposed to be able to leave the res
in the first place if they have no money, nor a job, nor clothes? are
they supposed to go under a bridge and live and work with ragged
clothes? it doesn't work for the white/black homeless...how would it
work for indians?

[spiritrising]

i don't remember the "reds" killing whole tribes with smallpox on
purpose, or taking of someone's land either....did they really do that?
seems like the land belonged to us in the first place and it was whites
who took it by force.

[spiritrising]

we are the government if ya didn't know!

[spiritrising]

you deserve what ever happens.....i will be sure to vote for him if
that is the case....lol

[spiritrising]

walt tonne wrote:
> Take a look at American Third Position Party.
>

i think that the"rent is too damn high party" is more down to earth.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-15, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
> Way Back Jack wrote:
[...]

>> Oh that's right, they're "entitled" to a free ride, rather than, as Euros
>> did, leave the confines of their ethnic neighborhoods and WORK for their
>> bread. My bad.
>
> why do you say that? how are they supposed to be able to leave the res
> in the first place if they have no money, nor a job, nor clothes? are
> they supposed to go under a bridge and live and work with ragged
> clothes? it doesn't work for the white/black homeless...how would it
> work for indians?

I work in a canteen and it's crazy how much gets thrown away; I tend
to take home as much as I can which saves me money, and it helps the
environment (aka mother earth). Maybe a deal can be made to work in
the food industry, bars, hotels and maybe soon public soup kitchens,
and then take home to the rezz whatever is left; or is that too far
a drive.

Don't assimilate into crazy white culture, it is all about
dictatorial relations between ppl; slaves and bosses, they can not
think any other way. I realize there may be no easy solutions and that
it may already be as good as it can be given the circumstances. Too
easy to say from the sidelines what ppl should do. But maybe they
could advocate the logical truth of this DAVID/9-roads system, and also
do it, get other Americans on board who also have a hard time and then
change all of America for the better while putting teh olicharchy where
they belong.

[Jos Boersema]

Op 2012-05-15, Jos Boersema schreef <jo...@xs4all.DelmeNospam.nl>:

> Op 2012-05-15, spiritrising schreef <miketwo...@gmail.com>:
>> Way Back Jack wrote:
> [...]
>>> Oh that's right, they're "entitled" to a free ride, rather than, as Euros
>>> did, leave the confines of their ethnic neighborhoods and WORK for their
>>> bread. My bad.
>>
>> why do you say that? how are they supposed to be able to leave the res
>> in the first place if they have no money, nor a job, nor clothes? are
>> they supposed to go under a bridge and live and work with ragged
>> clothes? it doesn't work for the white/black homeless...how would it
>> work for indians?
>
> I work in a canteen and it's crazy how much gets thrown away; I tend
> to take home as much as I can which saves me money, and it helps the
> environment (aka mother earth). Maybe a deal can be made to work in
> the food industry, bars, hotels and maybe soon public soup kitchens,
> and then take home to the rezz whatever is left; or is that too far
> a drive.

Maybe you can offer businesses something other employees can't, such
as "we take the still edible garbage off your hand, and:
- We will ensure this job (maybe it is dishwashing, or waitering) is
done and is done right, if he/she is sick we will send a replacement,
if he steals we will deal with it harshly and compensate the loss
(when things get thrown away supposedly that shouldn't, etc, which
is what business owners fear when they allow unsold stuff to be taken,
they fear employees will throw stuff away on purpose to collect it;
so you got to make sure that doesn't happen.)
- If we can we can do light repairs to keep the business going.
- We can make some advertizement for this business or make a seal that
this is a business that helps indians (appealing to the socially
minded clientele, if any.)

Whatever you can think off, and since there is quite a lot unemployed
indians (right??), you have like 2 or 3 persons for each job you might
get as a tribe/clan/group; and hence you can offer something more to
the business in exchange for valuage 'garbage.' ????? Don't think of
it as garbage though, it isn't out of the dumpster but just unsold
items straight from the display for the guests into the bag, perfect
food stuff you migth not even be able afford otherwise I guess (I can't).
Good stuff. Maybe a van can drive past the services that the tribe has
on such a list to collect the left over food. Maybe you can even do
protection services too (not like the maffia but honest.)

Just randomly thinking; some tribes do reportedly very well from the
Casinos and there is a struggle over the profits. That is very sad
and will eventually result in all Casinos being taken from the indians.
The reason is obvious: if you behave that way they loose honor, and
then it becomes politically possible to destroy those taxation setups
for these Casinos. If you behave properly, you retain honor and the
political platform to maintain the ownership of them. Other (white)
Casino owners sure don't like others getting easy tax breaks resulting
in hard to beat competition in the Casino business, so they are looking
for an opening to defame the current setup and roll it back, then the
indians will loose it (as I have read would eventually happen, from
red man visions.) But it's all pretty difficult with the blood quotums
and stuff so I don't know either. Getting rich while others suffer is
not right, unless those others really deserved it but that's usually
not the case.

[Way Back Jack]

It's mathematically-impossible to divide a growing population into a static
land mass unless you keep taking away from those whom you have previously
granted land. Furthermore, there will be complaints as to the quality of
land received. "I don't want .2 acres in Eastern Nevada. How come my
neighbor got .2 acres in Hawaii. Imagine the bureaucracy that would be
required. It's enough to make Obama wet his panties.

You're a fucking nutcake; no one on the bright side of mental retardation
could take you seriously.

.

[Way Back Jack]

The Reds brutally tortured and killed each other just as all humans have
done since the inception of homo sapiens. Your ancestors got the short end
of the stick when the whites invaded. My ancestors were brutalized by the
czar and discriminated against here when they got off the boat. Shit
happens. But the smart man assimilates and does his best to survive rather
than wallow in self-pity, especially when the atrocities were done to his
ancestors rather than himself.