Rachel Corrie Lost "Line Of Sight"
lisa dillon
upon yourself or others. Rachel Corrie made foolish error's The Photo
Op was More Importaint than the Womans life in the end it is
Irresponcable Activism useing her ignorance for a Gain? Read another
point of view at
Aozotorp
But to those who do find time to stop and not run over protesters I give my
salute:
Kispoko2
lisa dillon, you are clearly educated so little on the topic that convoluted
garbage like this somehow impresses you... keep it the fuck off my screen, will
ya darlin'? i expect better at alt.native, so i don't mind demanding it.
to compare the situation in iraq where the guys with those signs were calling
human shields "wankers" to the situation in the occupied territories (where
these "human shields" often protect against things like the idf shooting at
little kids and destroying water wells in violation of international law, which
doesn't protect anybody but only causes suffering to those already suffering
under occupation) makes me think somehow you believe all these ay-rabs'
situations are akin. again, i expect more out of alt.native, and goddamn i
better see it.... that article was just plain fucking stupid, and again, i
expect those on alt.native to not be so easily led astray, especially given the
parallels involved with what native people have endured. that's what upsets me
time and again with things like this.... disparaging a dead woman as well, who
by all first-hand accounts i've gotten from her was very intelligent, extremely
compassionate, and made the ultimate sacrifice and placed her life in danger
several times to assist others who had nowhere else to turn and didn't deserve
the [mis]treatment of their oppressors, who weren't protecting israeli citizens
by bulldozing a doctor's home. they were, as the united states is doing now in
pissing the world off with its military action and imperialism, creating the
very terrorism they tell us is being squelched by such arrogant belligerence
and indifference..... if we could all be as "misguided" as rachel corrie, we
wouldn't have many problems in the world
two united states citizens murdered by the idf within about a month of each
other, and *they're* villified?
step your game up lisa dillon
Keely
thinks he is free to post anything he wants... sheesh what a hypocrite..
If he dont like it, he shouldnt open it, and if he opens it and dont like
it, maybe he shouldnt read it, but to open it, read it and then complain
about it... dayum is he stupid or what??
"Kispoko2" <kisp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030421180911...@mb-m06.aol.com...
lisa dillon
O Game. I just expect Activist to use their collective responable
minds at LEAST. Rachel Corrie made a mistake that cost her life it was
not even in a Hero situtation NO! She sliped under a pile of rubble
she had no CHANCE TO POSOTIVLY IMPACT THE CHILDREN STANDING ON THAT
PILE.
I truly honor and respect the lessor grand standing every day Person
giveing their everyday for freedoms sake. I posted another articale
that clearly spaks to that support.Today the world lost a great
activist Nina Simone,I wonder how many freedom fighters today know who
she was....Lisa D....O Game REALLY
BravesHeart
> keep it the fuck off my screen, will
>ya darlin'? i expect better at alt.native, so i don't mind demanding it.
>again, i expect more out of alt.native, and goddamn i
>better see it.... that article was just
> i
>expect those on alt.native to not be so easily led astray,
>
>step your game up lisa dillon
WHO THE GODAMN HELL DIED & APPOINT U BOARD NAZI U MOFO WANNABE ? THE WOMAN
POST A LINK TO A G.D. ARTICAL LIKE ALL THE REST OF US DO. SHE DIDNT WRITE IT.
SHES ENTITLE TO HER OPINON SAME AS NE1 ELSE. SHE AINT 1 OF YOUR "CONVERTS" TO
ISLAM. THIS BOARD AINT CAST IN YOUR IMAGE. SHE GOT THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH =
SUMTHIN YOUR ALWAYS THROWIN IN FOLKS FACE AS WHAT YOUR BRAYIN JACKASS POLITICAL
PARTY FIGHTS 4. U CLAIM YOUR 20 YRS OLD. WHERE THE HELL U GET OFF TALKIN TO A
WOMAN LIKE THAT WHOS OLD ENUF TO BE YOUR MAMA U WHITE MAGGOT? STEP YOUR OWN
GAME UP U SICK WHINER. SHE AINT YOUR MAID. FROM NOW ON MAY BE U OUGHTTA ADRESS
HER AS "MAAM" & MRS. DILLON. & IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO SAY "PLEASE" WHILE
YOUR AT IT PISSANT
BravesHeart
NO = HES A FUCKIN HYPOCRIT. HE CRAMS THIS BOARD W/ HIS OWN NOTIONS ALL THE
WHILE WHININ ABOUT FREE SPEECH (HIS PARTY LINE) BUT HE DONT WANT NOBODY BUT HIM
TO HAVE THE RIGHT. WHAT A SICK DIPSHIT. I HAD HIS NUMBER LONG TIME AGO KEELY &
SO DID U. SO DID RIDGE & WOLFIE. SOONER OR LATER THE REST OF EM WILL FIGURE OUT
HIS "AGENDA" & TELL HIM TO HAWK IT ELSEWHERE
BravesHeart
>O Game. I just expect Activist to use their collective responable
>minds at LEAST. Rachel Corrie made a mistake that cost her life it was
>not even in a Hero situtation NO! She sliped under a pile of rubble
>she had no CHANCE TO POSOTIVLY IMPACT THE CHILDREN STANDING ON THAT
>PILE.
>I truly honor and respect the lessor grand standing every day Person
>giveing their everyday for freedoms sake. I posted another articale
>that clearly spaks to that support.Today the world lost a great
>activist Nina Simone,I wonder how many freedom fighters today know who
>she was....Lisa D....O Game REALLY
>
U DONT OWE HIM NUTHIN IN THE WAY OF EXPLANATON LISA. U GOT THE SAME RIGHT TO
YOUR OWN OPINON AS EVERYBODY ELSE. SCREW HIM = HES WHITE TRASH
>
>
>
>
Eli
arguments? She is in mourning, you know. Show some respect.
"BravesHeart" <brave...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030422034207...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Aozotorp
And many will come to demean Nina Simone also! The fact is that an armed Bull
Dozer in a combat situation is supported by ground troops to make sure nobody
comes and throws a bomb in it! These were around to see if Rachel Corrine
would slip or not! Also she was taken to a Palestinian hospital, not an
Israeli = which shows the concern of the Israeli commander on the ground there!
Bob Lancaster
No need to be so polite, BravesHeart, what do you *really* think? :-)
Don't you love it when some pretendian gets on the board, insults
folks who have been here for years, and tries to tell us how we're
*supposed* to think?
I guess anyone who gets their news from any source other than
Palestinian terrorists has been 'led astray'.
Sure, I feel bad for the Corrie family, but I'm not going to cry over
someone who dies doing some dumb ass stunt in a military zone while
protecting terrorists.
As for kissy-poo: I see how he treats his elders, I see that Keely
has info than he isn't really Shawnee, and I see him kissing up to
terrorists who kill women and children and then dance in the street
when the World Trade Center fell. Tells me all I need to know about
him.
-Bob
Kispoko2
>
>Don't you love it when some pretendian gets on the board, insults
>folks who have been here for years, and tries to tell us how we're
>*supposed* to think?
don't you love it when some government employee gets on the board, insults
folks who are doing and saying real shit, and tries to tell them what they're
doing's wrong?
>I guess anyone who gets their news from any source other than
>Palestinian terrorists has been 'led astray'.
so all palestinians are terrorists.... ok.
i actually know someone who was with rachel just a few weeks before she was
killed and has spent extensive time in the occupied territories himself....
happens to be an american of jewish descent, which of course is just a eupemism
for 'palestinian terrorist.'
->Sure, I feel bad for the Corrie family, but I'm not going to cry over
>someone who dies doing some dumb ass stunt in a military zone while
>protecting terrorists.
you do think all palestinians are terrorists, don't you? so now doctors are
terrorists, too? i wonder why it is you can't seem to tell one brown person
apart from the next... refusal, or, no real life experience in it? you're
nothing more than a yes man for gov. interests
->As for kissy-poo: I see how he treats his elders, I see that Keely
>has info than he isn't really Shawnee
love to see it, just like i love to see frauds with the temerity to question me
or anyone else on here just to divert attention from themselves..... you think
that shit isn't obvious retards?
-and I see him kissing up to
>terrorists who kill women and children and then dance in the street
>when the World Trade Center fell. Tells me all I need to know about
>him.
>
>-Bob
you jump right in to defend the likes of keely and fakeheart.... tells me all i
need to know about you.... you fucking waste of taxpayer money and air
Keely
even Shawnee as you have claimed.. I dont have to prove your not Shawnee, I
think your story alone has perked up peoples attentions to knowing your a
white boy... but you never proved you were Shawnee...
Ahhh lets look into recent history when you replied to my question of who
your Shawnee ancestor is.... first you gave the name Cohen... which I proved
to be a Irish name, gave the link to the Cohen/Coen surname board, and then
you addmitted it was not a Shawnee name... claimed you never said that was
your ancestors name who was Shawnee.. you added that YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT
NAME WAS YOUR ANCESTORS NAME, YOU JUST KNEW YOU WERE INDIAN... starting
to remember?
I dont have to prove your a liar... you did that all on your own.
"Kispoko2" <kisp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030422154251...@mb-m04.aol.com...
Keely
hollering that it was the hospital who killed her...
"Aozotorp" <aozo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030422083726...@mb-m04.aol.com...
Aozotorp
>
>If Rachel had been taken to a Israel hospital you palistines would be
>hollering that it was the hospital who killed her...
The big lesson in life is to take responsibility - Especially if you have the
power to do what you can!
Keely
John Edward...
"Aozotorp" <aozo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030422194156...@mb-m07.aol.com...
Aozotorp
>And Rachel Corrie takes responsibility for her death? Someone, quick, call
>John Edward...
Power and responsibility is in hands of those who can = That was the Israeli
Bulldozer driver and the troops protecting the Dozer that day!
Some one who did stop in history:
http://whitelead.com/jrh/screenshots/wang-weilin.JPG
http://www.al-bushra.org/LabibKobti/sharon.html
Even the right-wing has more sympathetic views than some connected to the state
in a statist manner!!!!
http://www.al-bushra.org/LabibKobti/sharon.html
Kispoko2
>>hollering that it was the hospital who killed her...
>
>The big lesson in life is to take responsibility - Especially if you have the
>power to do what you can!
it's important to remember that they couldn't even get an ambulance to her
until about a half hour later i believe because of the israeli troops
around.... pretty sad situation where even neutral services vital to the
preservation and safeguarding of human life are targeted as israel often does
with ambulances and impeded from doing their job
Eli
referring to the right wing was same as the one above..news:20030422212040...@mb-m07.aol.com...
Keely
began with photos claimed to be of the incident!! Remember those photos? The
ones with different bull dozers, different land scapes, all claimed to be
from the same time and of the same dozer... you expect people to believe
that crap and then put more links out there as if they are the truth?
Heres the truth... we are born... then at a time we die... some of us live
longer than others, that would be those who do not do stupid things that
will cut our lives shorter..
"Aozotorp" <aozo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030422212040...@mb-m07.aol.com...
BravesHeart
>From: "Eli" elibl...@DELETEhotmail.com
>Date: 04/22/2003 4:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9M6pa.299078$OV.342441@rwcrnsc54>
>
>Why does it annoy me so that you pull a woman like wolvie into your petty
>arguments? She is in mourning, you know. Show some respect.
MYOB BUBBA. WOLFIE & ME R GOOD FRIENDS. IF SHE DONT WANT ME TO MENTON HER NAME
SHE WILL DAMN WELL TELL ME SO IN EMAIL. BTW - SHES POSTED A ARTICAL HERSELF
TODAY ON HERE. DONT MOURN 4 OTHERS U LITTLE BOARD NAZI. GRIEF IS A VERY
PRIVATE THING & WE ALL DO IT OUR OWN WAY. DONT TELL THE REST OF THE WORLD HOW.
& WE DONT NEED U TO REMIND US ABOUT RESPECT. SHES THE 1 I RESPECT THE MOST ON
HERE & HER OPINON MEAN A LOT MORE TO ME THEN YOURS
BravesHeart
>folks who have been here for years, and tries to tell us how we're
>*supposed* to think?
I JUST DONT GET WHY ITS NEEDFUL TO CHEW HER OUT LIKE SHES SOME
DUMB BUNNY. SHE NO A LOT MORE THEN MOST OF US ON HERE & SHES ENTITLE TO POST
SUMTHIN EVEN IF IT AINT WHAT SOME FOLKS WANNA READ. I JUST LIKE TO NO WHEN WEST
"BY GAWD" VIRGINIA GOT HIS MONITERS LICENSE 4 USENET.
>As for kissy-poo: I see how he treats his elders, I see that Keely
>has info than he isn't really Shawnee, and I see him kissing up to
>terrorists who kill women and children and then dance in the
>street
>when the World Trade Center fell. Tells me all I need to know about
>him.
U GOT THAT TOTALY RIGHT BOB. WHEN I DARED CALL MY MAMA A NAME 4 BLESSIN ME OUT
WHEN I COME HOME DRUNK WHEN I WAS 15 SHE HAULED OFF & SMACK ME IN THE MOUTH W/
A SHOE. I STILL GOTTA SCAR. BUT I GOTTA BIGGER SCAR FROM THE WAY I INSULT HER.
I CANT BELEVE I DONE IT. & MY DAD AINT NEVER LET ME FORGET IT. SINCE
PISSINYOURKOPO GOTTA HABIT OF CALLIN WOMEN ON HERE WHORES & WORSE (ASK KEELY &
LYNNE) I DONT PUT NUTHIN PAST HIS SORRY ASS NO MATTER WHO HES REPLYIN TO. "KEEP
THE FUCK OFF MY SCREEN"? GET REAL 4 CRYIN OUT LOUD. HELL HE TALKS TO HER LIKE
SHES A COMMON..... SAVAGE
BravesHeart
Date: 04/22/2003 5:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <EDipa.249519$S14....@news1.central.cox.net>
Kizszy, I along with others have waited for your proof that your Indian, or
even Shawnee as you have claimed.. I dont have to prove your not Shawnee, I
think your story alone has perked up peoples attentions to knowing your a
white boy... but you never proved you were Shawnee...
HE CAME STRAIT TO NATIVES SPEAK FROM A PAL/ISRAEL FORUM. & IT DIDNT TAKE NO
TIME AT ALL B4 HE WAS CRAMMIN THAT BOARD W/ HIS ANTI ISRAEL/ PRO PAL/ DEMO
POLITICS BULLSHIT. NEVER MIND THAT IT WAS A NDN BOARD. HE WENT FROM BEIN
SOMEBODY WHO "WANNA FIND OUT ALL I CAN ABOUT NAs" TO BEIN 1 HISSELF. U CAN ASK
ANY 1 OF A DOZ. FOLKS WHO R REGLAR POSTERS OVER THERE. HIS INTREST IN NATIVE
BOARDS IS TO TRY & RAM HIS AGENDA HOME TO A SPEC. INTREST GROUP WHO ALREDY GOT
FISH TO FRY W/ UNCLE SAM & WHOS POLITICS HE FIGURE DOVETAIL W/ HIS OWN -- NO
MATTER IF ITS A NDN AGENDA OR NOT. HIS GAME = POLITICS & NUTHIN ELSE. OH - &
PREACHIN TO OTHERS HOW THEY OUGHTTA THINK & SPEAK. HE HAPPEN TO BE A BRAYIN
JACKASS W/ THAT AGENDA. BUT IF HE WAS A TRUMPETIN ELEPHANT W/ 1 I WOUDNT
LISTEN TO THAT GODAMN MESS NETHER. CUZ I HAD ABOUT ENUF OF OUR MANIPULATON BY
WHITE MASTERS WHOS REAL PASSION = THERE OWN POCKET. & THAT BIZNESS OF
MANIPULATON IS EXACTLY WHY HE CHOSE US IN THE 1ST DAMN PLACE. I MAY WRITE
DUMB BUT I DONT THINK SO DUMB. BTW HIS NAME = JUSTIN COEN
Eli
Enews:20030422221504...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Eli
state *YOUR* name here? Or you gonna give a lame excuse? Who enrolled you
where? Hell I'll give you my names all the way back to the first census if
you want. Would YOU or you just gonna keep talking trash? Let those that
will point and say someone ain't NDN prove they are first or shut up.news:20030422224316...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Omri Schwarz
> >No need to be so polite, BravesHeart, what do you *really* think? :-)
> >
> >Don't you love it when some pretendian gets on the board, insults
> >folks who have been here for years, and tries to tell us how we're
> >*supposed* to think?
>
> don't you love it when some government employee gets on the board, insults
> folks who are doing and saying real shit, and tries to tell them what they're
> doing's wrong?
>
> >I guess anyone who gets their news from any source other than
> >Palestinian terrorists has been 'led astray'.
>
> so all palestinians are terrorists.... ok.
Hi, all, if I might step in here?
The area where Corrie was "shielding" is a row of
houses that are used to dig the tunnels through which
the semtex is smuggled into Gaza for making the bomb vests
suicide bombers use.
She was actively protecting the logistics of a
terrorist outfit. As were her comrades.
Not very wise of her.
--
Omri Schwarz --- ocs...@mit.edu ('h' before war)
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr
Eli
from all angles now!!!
E
"Omri Schwarz" <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:octsms9...@pickled-herring.mit.edu...
Omri Schwarz
> Prove it. Document it. Show it. Cite it. Israeli at MIT? God they are coming
> from all angles now!!!
Oddly enough, I was not aware that even the ISM
denies that much.
That sector of Rafah had been used for tunneling
for years. That's how Hamas gets the semtex they
need for their bombs, and that's why the IDF frequently
comes by there to visit. (They visited again this week:
http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0420-1.stm )
Anyway, just so you not think I'm part of
the assault column besieging this newsgroup, you
can ask the other regulars here. I'm neither troll
nor twink, I lurk here and sometimes ask questions
simply to learn.
Kispoko2
>
>The area where Corrie was "shielding" is a row of
>houses that are used to dig the tunnels through which
>the semtex is smuggled into Gaza for making the bomb vests
>suicide bombers use.
>
>She was actively protecting the logistics of a
>terrorist outfit. As were her comrades.
>Not very wise of her.
that's the "official" story omri.... but it makes no sense when held up to
scrutiny.... they had been doing that to *all* such houses in the area for a
long while now, regardless of whether or not they were linked to these tunnels
used to smuggle weapons in from egypt....
there were also no tunnels found in the home... they just indescriminately
bulldozed it as they do the rest, and then pass it off as "fighting terrorism"
when it is really creating it.... so you feel it's justified then to bulldoze
the home of someone who's done nothing wrong on either the possibility they
could've (which can be checked into rather easily) or the suspicion that they
might? says quite a lot about your sense of justice there omri
she wasn't protecting anything more or less than the home of an innocent
family, a doctor's home and residence no less, who has since been made homeless
for doing nothing wrong but i guess being palestinian and living in what the
israelis designated as the wrong area.... in their own territory no less
Kispoko2
>denies that much.
you are being purposely obfuscatory here..... the ism wouldn't deny that *some*
have dug tunnels.... but they have fervently denied that many of the homes they
attempt to protect, including the last one rachel corrie was protecting before
she was murdered, had anything to do with tunnels. they are not active in
protecting terrorist elements, rather, protecting against them. you must
imagine terrorism subsidized by u.s. tax dollars in israel and the occupied
territories doesn't count as such or something the way you frame the
discussion.... as if innocents having their homes taken from them is the
courageous defeat of terrorism as opposed to that very type of action itself
there have been, i believe, more than 600 homes bulldozed in rafah for these
reasons.... they have razed everything far enough back now that tunnels in most
of these areas they continue to bulldoze homes in wouldn't be feasible.... the
israelis have different aims, further assisted by such activities under the
guise of going after terrorism.... it's the same reason why they've been razing
homes in the area near israeli settlements. what do you imagine the reason for
that is? the settlements are illegal anyhow, but nobody says or does
anything.... worse yet, people such as yourself unwittingly parrot the official
rhetoric which attempts to rationalize this insanity
i said 'unwittingly'... but now that i think about it, how do i know? maybe you
know well what it is you're doing.
->That sector of Rafah had been used for tunneling
>for years. That's how Hamas gets the semtex they
>need for their bombs, and that's why the IDF frequently
>comes by there to visit. (They visited again this week:
>http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0420-1.stm )
so because some homes have been used for tunneling, that justifies bulldozing
any and every home they deem 'suspicious' without knowing otherwise, as well as
the tossing aside of common sense measures as alternatives to making innocents
homeless to pay for the crimes of others?.... omri, i see you like your
jurisprudence a little on the extrajudicial side.... that is not the mark of a
civilized nation
->Anyway, just so you not think I'm part of
>the assault column besieging this newsgroup, you
>can ask the other regulars here. I'm neither troll
>nor twink, I lurk here and sometimes ask questions
>simply to learn.
as you can see i'll go for the jugular if my sense of social justice is rubbed
the wrong way, but discussion is welcomed here
Eli
Omri- Not looking to get a shmekel in a twist. There are a lot of echoes
that mirror Palestine and NDN populations. More Ironic is that there are a
lot of echoes of Jewish and NDN populations...I don't believe Rachael was
certainly privy to the tunnels, or if she was, she was clearly there first
and foremost as a Human Rights activist..her end was unspeakably brutal- and
even if she wasn't "wise" well, she was young and an idealist. I think she
would have been just as motivated if it was any other genocided population,
would you have called her "unwise" if she was doing that in Poland in WWII?
Maybe- but clearly there were more important things than sitting back and
watching the show. . from what I hear in Washington- not far from her
college- the local press describes from her friends that she really was an
empathatic sort- truly caring. Not an enemy of Israel per se, but an enemy
of the brutality.. that is what I gatheredfrom it.. sad to see her death
simply labeled as from being unwise, not crushed by a military bulldozer..
E
"Omri Schwarz" <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:octhe8p...@pickled-herring.mit.edu...
Kispoko2
>state *YOUR* name here? Or you gonna give a lame excuse? Who enrolled you
>where? Hell I'll give you my names all the way back to the first census if
you want. Would YOU or you just gonna keep talking trash? Let those that
>will point and say someone ain't NDN prove they are first or shut up.
>E
yup yup.... but this waste of taxpayer money who apparently isn't very talented
at his job, assures us that he has one of those gen-yoo-whine cherokee names
that's well know throughout the south.... just can't say what it is, that's
all. you know.... because of his 'job.' which doesn't involve anything at all
to do with anything government, so stop saying that.... yet he can tell us all
manners of other personal shit to no end without anyone ever having even
asked..... guh
what a mindless talkshit
Omri Schwarz
> >Hi, all, if I might step in here?
> >
> >The area where Corrie was "shielding" is a row of
> >houses that are used to dig the tunnels through which
> >the semtex is smuggled into Gaza for making the bomb vests
> >suicide bombers use.
> >
> >She was actively protecting the logistics of a
> >terrorist outfit. As were her comrades.
> >Not very wise of her.
>
>
> that's the "official" story omri.... but it makes no sense when held up to
More than the official story. It's the truth.
http://www.btnhboard.com/~scrub/corrie.htm
> scrutiny.... they had been doing that to *all* such houses in the area for a
> long while now, regardless of whether or not they were linked to these tunnels
> used to smuggle weapons in from egypt....
Because before they cleared the whole block, every time
they went in to search for tunnels they'd get a full-fledged
gun battle. It gets tiresome after a while.
>
> there were also no tunnels found in the home... they just indescriminately
The tunnel in that particular area ended in the yard.
The bulldozer was moving in to
clear the shrubbery that was camouflaging it.
> bulldozed it as they do the rest, and then pass it off as "fighting terrorism"
> when it is really creating it.... so you feel it's justified then to bulldoze
> the home of someone who's done nothing wrong on either the possibility they
> could've (which can be checked into rather easily) or the suspicion that they
> might? says quite a lot about your sense of justice there omri
When the alternative is for more tunnels, more semtex,
more of my people getting perforated by shrapnel?
Yes.
>
> she wasn't protecting anything more or less than the home of an innocent
> family, a doctor's home and residence no less, who has since been made homeless
Wrong again. That block was built with the purpose
of hosting tunnels. The families that moved in there
were the cover story. They were accomplices.
> for doing nothing wrong but i guess being palestinian and living in what the
> israelis designated as the wrong area.... in their own territory no less
It's hellish. But it's nothing compared to living
as a Jew in an Arab country.
BravesHeart
WHY DONT U TAKE A POLL OF OUR MUTUEL ACQUAINTANCES WHITE BREAD & LET EM VOTE
ON WHICH OF US IS GEN-U-JINE ?
YOUR PERSNAL SHIT INCL. YOUR "RAMBLING" THOUGTS CALLED "STUF" ALL ABOUT WHATS
ON YOUR MIND HAS CLUTTER THE BOARD LIKE THIS = YOUR PERSNAL STAGE LITTLE MAN.4
A LONG DAMN TIME. U GOT SOME CHEEK TALKIN ABOUT NE1 AT ALL SPILLIN THERE GUTS.
YOUR THE MASTER OF THAT GAME. I AINT NEVER BEEN STUPID ENUF TO GIVE MY NAME
RANK & SOC SEC. ON HERE. I CAN LOOK UP YOUR KIN IN THE AOL WHITE PGS. FROM THE
INFO U HAVE SPIT OUT TO NE1 WHO WILL LISTEN. BUY A CLUE SHITFACE
Omri Schwarz
> Take a deep breath now Eli.
> Omri- Not looking to get a shmekel in a twist. There are a lot of echoes
> that mirror Palestine and NDN populations. More Ironic is that there are a
But they can only go so far.
You might look at the situation and say "hey, they're
being pushed around like NDNs where (and are.)" But a closer
look and you'll notice that half the Jewish population in Israel
is of Jews *from* Arab countries. Who also got pushed around
and turned into refugees starting in 1880 and continuing even
now and pushed into Israel. And they got pushed around because
in Muslim law minorities get treated like blacks got treated
under Jim Crow. And when a bunch of Jews got uppity and challenged
the status quo in the Muslim World, all Jews got beaten up.
Do you know of any place where NDNs kept white people
under a thumb?
Under Muslim law, for one example, Jews do not have
the right to physical self defense. If a Muslim feels
like beating you up, your duty is to be passive and take it.
And that is what Hamas and Islamic Jihad are openly
fighting to re-establish! Do you really want to be
dragged in? Do you really want NDN activists to be
equated with Palestinian activists?
> lot of echoes of Jewish and NDN populations...I don't believe Rachael was
And those echoes also only go so far. We both face a challenge
of keeping our tribes in existence. But Jews and NDNs have answered
the challenge using completely different means. You use
religious secrecy. We do the exact opposite. We put everything
on paper. And that does limit how much we can use from
each other's experience.
And that's why as an Israeli I find it utterly
disgusting that anyone activist in the Middle East
(on either side!) would drag NDNs into the quarrel.
Anyone who does that regards NDNs as nothing more than
usable cannon fodder.
Yes, there are similarities between NDNs and Jews and Palestinians.
But not enough to justify dragging NDNs into it.
> certainly privy to the tunnels, or if she was, she was clearly there first
> and foremost as a Human Rights activist..her end was unspeakably brutal- and
She was certainly brainwashed, and used by some mighty
evil people. And if she was privy to the tunnels, she could
not be called a human rights activist.
Human rights activists don't go around helping
racist Muslim-supremacist terrorists obtain semtex.
> even if she wasn't "wise" well, she was young and an idealist. I think she
> would have been just as motivated if it was any other genocided population,
> would you have called her "unwise" if she was doing that in Poland in WWII?
She would not have done that in Poland.
Remember that when Poland was attacked, the
far leftists closed in on the corpse.
> Maybe- but clearly there were more important things than sitting back and
> watching the show. . from what I hear in Washington- not far from her
> college- the local press describes from her friends that she really was an
> empathatic sort- truly caring. Not an enemy of Israel per se, but an enemy
> of the brutality.. that is what I gatheredfrom it.. sad to see her death
> simply labeled as from being unwise, not crushed by a military bulldozer..
By the way, the IDF hasn't translated the report to English yet,
but it turns out she was killed not by the bulldozer, but by
the construction debris she was standing on. THe 'dozer tracks
caused the pile to shift.
BravesHeart
>Date: 04/23/2003 1:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <octsms9...@pickled-herring.mit.edu>
>
>kisp...@aol.com (Kispoko2) writes:
>
>> >No need to be so polite, BravesHeart, what do you *really* think? :-)
>> >
>> >Don't you love it when some pretendian gets on the board, insults
>> >folks who have been here for years, and tries to tell us how we're
>> >*supposed* to think?
>>
>> don't you love it when some government employee gets on the board, insults
>> folks who are doing and saying real shit, and tries to tell them what
>they're
>> doing's wrong?
>>
>> >I guess anyone who gets their news from any source other than
>> >Palestinian terrorists has been 'led astray'.
>>
>> so all palestinians are terrorists.... ok.
>
>Hi, all, if I might step in here?
>
>The area where Corrie was "shielding" is a row of
>houses that are used to dig the tunnels through which
>the semtex is smuggled into Gaza for making the bomb vests
>suicide bombers use.
>
>She was actively protecting the logistics of a
>terrorist outfit. As were her comrades.
>Not very wise of her.
>
>
>--
WELL IM GLAD U DID STEP IN. I DONT NO NUTHIN ABOUT THE GIRL BUT WHAT I READ IN
THE PAPERS. IM SORRY NE1 SPECIALY A WOMAN GOTTA DIE IN A WAR ZONE. BUT WHY
THE HELL WAS SHE IN A WAR ZONE?
THE ATTN GAVE TO HER ON HERE
BY THE SAME SOURCE IS A HELLUVA GODAMN LOT MORE THEN HE GIVE TO LORI PIESTEWA
WHO WAS A NATIVE AMERICAN SOLDIER WHO DIE IN THE SERVICE OF HER COUNTRY. HE
AINT SAID 5 LINES ABOUT HER. WHATS WRONG W/ THIS PICTURE? WAS 1 MORE WORTHY
THEN THE OTHER? & WHY SPEND POST AFTER POST ON THIS STORY WHEN THERE AINT A
DAMN THING ABOUT IT THAT GOT SQUAT TO DO W/ NDN PROBS? WE AINT GOT NO TROOPS IN
ISRAEL OR PALESTINE & WE AINT FIGHTIN NETHER SIDE. WHY IS THIS DEATH A
NOBLER DEATH THEN LORI PIESTEWA
WAS? ITS BECUZ OUR SOURCE = MORE DOWN W/ ARAB CRAP THEN W/ ANYTHING THAT GOT
TO DO W/ 1ST NATIONS
Kispoko2
>Omri- Not looking to get a shmekel in a twist. There are a lot of echoes
>that mirror Palestine and NDN populations. More Ironic is that there are a
>lot of echoes of Jewish and NDN populations...I don't believe Rachael was
>certainly privy to the tunnels, or if she was, she was clearly there first
>and foremost as a Human Rights activist..her end was unspeakably brutal- and
>even if she wasn't "wise" well, she was young and an idealist. I think she
>would have been just as motivated if it was any other genocided population,
>would you have called her "unwise" if she was doing that in Poland in WWII?
>Maybe- but clearly there were more important things than sitting back and
>watching the show. . from what I hear in Washington- not far from her
>college- the local press describes from her friends that she really was an
>empathatic sort- truly caring. Not an enemy of Israel per se, but an enemy
>of the brutality.. that is what I gatheredfrom it.. sad to see her death
>simply labeled as from being unwise, not crushed by a military bulldozer..
>E
hey... why couldn't i have said it like that?.... very nice :)
Kispoko2
>
>You might look at the situation and say "hey, they're
>being pushed around like NDNs where (and are.)" But a closer
>look and you'll notice that half the Jewish population in Israel
>is of Jews *from* Arab countries. Who also got pushed around
>and turned into refugees starting in 1880 and continuing even
>now and pushed into Israel.
funny... they didn't seem to have any real problems being a minority in
palestine before the infusion of european jews.
-And they got pushed around because
>in Muslim law minorities get treated like blacks got treated
>under Jim Crow. And when a bunch of Jews got uppity and challenged
>the status quo in the Muslim World, all Jews got beaten up.
i don't doubt that happened, but, what muslim law are you refering to exactly?
you know, just the other day, iraqi muslims in baghdad saved the small jewish
community there from becoming victims of the looting going on.... and we never
hear of those types of things. so, it continues to be perpetuated that arabs
hate jews. and when they hate israel for what it's done, by default they must
hate jews as well, right? nonsense
->Do you know of any place where NDNs kept white people
>under a thumb?
the analogy is false.... for the sake of argument, we'll imagine everything you
say happened as such.... the point you're missing is that the jews you're
refering to were in others' lands, not their own. that's not to justify it
though, 'cause i would never do that.... only, it is to place the comparison
into perspective
->Under Muslim law, for one example, Jews do not have
>the right to physical self defense. If a Muslim feels
>like beating you up, your duty is to be passive and take it.
now really.... what statute of sharia states this now?
and how is this any different really from the occupation as well as what israel
was able to accomplish before in ethnically cleansing palestinians from what is
now israel proper?
->And that is what Hamas and Islamic Jihad are openly
>fighting to re-establish! Do you really want to be
>dragged in? Do you really want NDN activists to be
>equated with Palestinian activists?
do you really want to insult peoples' intelligence like that by purposely
muddying and demagoguing the issue? please....
hamas if i'm not mistaken is one of the secular "terrorist" groups... they
would have no interest in anything of the sort, and do not imagine anyone is
going to be so gullible as to eat up spurious claims like that, like no one's
done their homework.... come on omri
->And those echoes also only go so far. We both face a challenge
>of keeping our tribes in existence. But Jews and NDNs have answered
>the challenge using completely different means. You use
>religious secrecy. We do the exact opposite. We put everything
>on paper. And that does limit how much we can use from
>each other's experience.
.... what? anyway....
->And that's why as an Israeli I find it utterly
>disgusting that anyone activist in the Middle East
>(on either side!) would drag NDNs into the quarrel.
>Anyone who does that regards NDNs as nothing more than
>usable cannon fodder.
that's a pretty convenient way for you to frame it, isn't it omri?
what about the native activists speaking out on their own? using themselves as
cannon fodder you reckon?
->Yes, there are similarities between NDNs and Jews and Palestinians.
>But not enough to justify dragging NDNs into it.
i don't think it's a matter of dragging indians into it really, as you say....
i guess that's a narrow way of viewing it, again, probably a self-inflicted
myopia
the similarities are evident to anyone with even cursory knowledge of both
peoples' plights.
->She was certainly brainwashed, and used by some mighty
>evil people.
if you like to believe that, then, whatever gets you off omri.... i have a
friend who was with many of these "evil people" over there, championing social
causes over there with rachel and other internationals. these are very
intelligent people, and either way, being in places like rafah is an education
all its own... no, the brainwashing is what goes on here. when you get to
rafah, you see water wells destroyed, for no apparent reason other than to
increase the suffering of the people there. you see and hear israeli drones
overhead, and gun towers over the city. you see families made homeless because
the idf decided to bulldoze their homes, and other refugees because israel
allowed illegal settlements on their land. you see a place that is one of the
most crowded of a territory which is perhaps the most densely populated in the
world, certainly not mitigated by the fact that 7,000 israelis have stolen and
"settled" (if you're looking for parallels omri, we know all about "settlers"
in the united states) over 40% of the land, much of it the most arrable and the
best, leaving the 1+ million palestinians to make due with what's left. you see
little kids being taunted by idf soldiers and shot at.... my friend witnessed
this himself.
then you have those good souls protesting against this savage oppression....
the ones you call "evil." clearly omri, your sensibilities regarding such a
paradigm are fucked, and really kinda revolting
-And if she was privy to the tunnels, she could
>not be called a human rights activist.
not as if rachel's above reproach, but, given the comments you've made, i
hardly feel as though you're in any type of position to be critical either way
->Human rights activists don't go around helping
>racist Muslim-supremacist terrorists obtain semtex.
well first you insenuate that is indeed what she was doing... then you admit
you're not certain.... now it's back to implications of the former..... heh
and for that matter, neither do human rights activists have much regard for the
destructive policies of the israeli state, which clearly you seem to passively
advocate, as well as justify
->By the way, the IDF hasn't translated the report to English yet,
>but it turns out she was killed not by the bulldozer, but by
>the construction debris she was standing on. THe 'dozer tracks
>caused the pile to shift.
oh.... so now it's the debris that had designs on her life and was being
wreckless.... goddamn debris... when is this spree of deadly debris going to
end?
and by the way, debris doesn't kill people, people kill people.... i think
that's how it goes
Kispoko2
do you take me as stupid omri? i could post a link right back and we could do
that all night.... proves little to nothing. so don't act as though it does
->Because before they cleared the whole block, every time
>they went in to search for tunnels they'd get a full-fledged
>gun battle. It gets tiresome after a while.
yeah... those people have a lot of nerve not to roll over and let the idf do as
they will with their homes.
even still though, it's incumbent upon them , if they are to at least pretend
to be a nation that follows laws, to make certain that those they punish (and
so severely) have actually committed crimes.... why would you argue against
that?
->The tunnel in that particular area ended in the yard.
>The bulldozer was moving in to
>clear the shrubbery that was camouflaging it.
and just happened to make a wrong turn and get the house as well? come on
omri... you really i'm ridiculously dumb, don't you? rachel corrie wasn't out
there protecting a shrub. she was protecting a home, as she'd done numerous
times before, to prevent a family from losing everything they had
->When the alternative is for more tunnels, more semtex,
>more of my people getting perforated by shrapnel?
>
>Yes.
well omri, at least i know what mentality i'm arguing with here... thanks for
that at least, i guess
sounds like so many americans here who think that terrorizing some folks in
baghdad is going to show bin laden what's what.... and you wonder why so many
innocent israelis end up being perforated by shrapnel? you shouldn't.... you
get what you give omri
->Wrong again. That block was built with the purpose
>of hosting tunnels. The families that moved in there
>were the cover story. They were accomplices.
i'm sure they were omri... in some other parallel universe....
is this the type of shit you have to keep saying to convince even yourself?
come on omri, i know there's some semblance of logic and understanding in there
beyond the bias that's built up and hatred that's clouded your vision.... this
type of thing will only perpetuate the violence you pretend desperately to want
to end, but are not doing what it truly is going to take to achieve that
by the way, that block had been there since before israel even became a
country.... now according to your logic omri, why would they need to have
created it then to smuggle weapons in?
->It's hellish. But it's nothing compared to living
>as a Jew in an Arab country.
i don't hear the converse being so nice either.
Aozotorp
>
>"Eli" <elibl...@DELETEhotmail.com> writes:
>
>> Prove it. Document it. Show it. Cite it. Israeli at MIT? God they are
>coming
>> from all angles now!!!
>
>Oddly enough, I was not aware that even the ISM
>denies that much.
>
>That sector of Rafah had been used for tunneling
>for years. That's how Hamas gets the semtex they
>need for their bombs, and that's why the IDF frequently
>comes by there to visit. (They visited again this week:
>http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0420-1.stm )
>
From what I have read = There is no part of Palestine that Israel does not view
as terrorist!
Aozotorp
>You might look at the situation and say "hey, they're
>being pushed around like NDNs where (and are.)" But a closer
>look and you'll notice that half the Jewish population in Israel
>is of Jews *from* Arab countries. Who also got pushed around
>and turned into refugees starting in 1880 and continuing even
>now and pushed into Israel. And they got pushed around because
>in Muslim law minorities get treated like blacks got treated
>under Jim Crow. And when a bunch of Jews got uppity and challenged
>the status quo in the Muslim World, all Jews got beaten up.
What does that have to do with stealing Palestinian lands and repressing the
Palestinians???
>
>Do you know of any place where NDNs kept white people
>under a thumb?
I think Jackson say it that way!
>
>Under Muslim law, for one example, Jews do not have
>the right to physical self defense. If a Muslim feels
>like beating you up, your duty is to be passive and take it.
>And that is what Hamas and Islamic Jihad are openly
>fighting to re-establish! Do you really want to be
>dragged in? Do you really want NDN activists to be
>equated with Palestinian activists?
>
>
And besides ruling the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza with no
representation; what is Israel to do when the Palestinian population becomes
the majority! This leads to the explusion fanatics!
Aozotorp
>
>Those are awesome links.. but I think you repeated the last two.. the one
>referring to the right wing was same as the one above..
So it was! The right-wing Link:
http://www.sierratimes.com/02/02/02/robinson.htm
Aozotorp
>
>Troops protecting the dozer? Why I didnt see any photos of troops when this
>began with photos claimed to be of the incident!!
Well, the Israelis claim all the photos were fake anyway! But evcer since the
Japanese Destroyed all those unprotected Army Tanks on Okinawa, the protection
of armored vehicles in a combat zone is a known. They were around!
Remember those photos? The
>ones with different bull dozers, different land scapes, all claimed to be
>from the same time and of the same dozer... you expect people to believe
>that crap and then put more links out there as if they are the truth?
>
>Heres the truth... we are born... then at a time we die... some of us live
>longer than others, that would be those who do not do stupid things that
>will cut our lives shorter..
Yep and those who hide and let opressives forces run amock may live longer -
but it will be a sad life!
Aozotorp
>>>If Rachel had been taken to a Israel hospital you palistines would be
>>>hollering that it was the hospital who killed her...
>>
>>The big lesson in life is to take responsibility - Especially if you have
>the
>>power to do what you can!
>
>until about a half hour later i believe because of the israeli troops
>around.... pretty sad situation where even neutral services vital to the
>preservation and safeguarding of human life are targeted as israel often does
>with ambulances and impeded from doing their job
>
Well there were two Former CIA agents on C-Span A few days ago talking about
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They said Israel was trying to make it so
bad for the Palestinians that they would leave. And indeed some have! Sure
beats the moral bottom of actually physically expelling them!
Aozotorp
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/opinion/23_04_03_e1.asp
The men who are selling Palestine
David Hirst, the veteran correspondent for The Guardian newspaper, reported in
1996 on fears in Yasser Arafat’s entourage that the Israelis would turn the
Palestinian security forces against the Palestinian leader. According to Hirst,
a Palestinian official said that the Israelis had so “penetrated” the
security forces “that some of its leaders now depend on them at least as much
as they do on Arafat. The time is coming when the Israelis decide that Arafat
who argues too much has served his purpose.”
The official told Hirst that “the Israelis are grooming Abu Mazen (Mahmoud
Abbas), one of the secret negotiators of the Oslo Accords, to take Arafat’s
place, and that they will count on Mohammed Dahlan, head of Preventative
Security in Gaza, to lead the putsch.”
Seven years ago such fears could be dismissed as paranoia. And yet, as I write
this, Arafat clings desperately to the rubble of his headquarters, the Israelis
having declared him “irrelevant,” while the US- and Israeli-chosen “Prime
Minister” Abbas is locked in a dispute with Arafat over the formation of a
Cabinet. The key sticking point is Abbas’ insistence that Dahlan be placed in
charge of security. Even the most level-headed observer is tempted to see in
this a conspiracy.
Abbas and Dahlan have been enjoying positive press in the United States
recently. The Los Angeles Times said that Abbas’ supporters hope he “will
help Arafat’s Fatah Party break loose from a corruption-plagued past.” As
for Dahlan, a New York Times editorial called him the “tough Gazan,” who
“has pressed Mr. Arafat to crack down on Hamas and other militant groups,”
pointing out that “he has often dealt with Israeli and American officials,
who hold him in high respect.”
This gentle treatment coincides with the fact that chief among his supporters
are Tony Blair and George W. Bush. It is impossible to find any mention of the
fact that Abbas and Dahlan are steeped in the corruption that plagued the
Palestinian Authority from its inception. In an earlier column, I recalled
Abbas’ $1.5 million villa built amid the squalor of Gaza. Dahlan too, built
himself a villa, one so lavish that it began to sink into Gaza’s sandy soil,
and had to be propped up with special supports.
A 1997 investigative report by Haaretz journalists Ronen Bergman and David
Ratner (The Man who swallowed Gaza, April 4, 1997), detailed the sources of
some this wealth. Dahlan, according to this report and numerous others,
profited from a monopoly on the import of gas into Gaza. Palestinian gas
station owners were forced to buy their product at inflated prices, and
Dahlan’s Preventive Security Service spent much of its time protecting
Israeli tankers.
More serious perhaps and equally forgotten is that Dahlan’s security
services were the target of numerous allegations from Palestinian and
international human rights organizations of serious abuses, including torture.
The extent of Palestinian Authority corruption, in which Abbas and Dahlan are
marinated, was known from the first days. However, in the “good old days”
of Rabin, Peres, Clinton and “Special Middle East Coordinator” Dennis Ross,
the only people who spoke about it vociferously and consistently were
Palestinians themselves and, ironically, right-wing Israeli opponents of the
Oslo Accords who seized on any information to discredit their enemies. Ross,
when asked last year by the Jerusalem Post’s Caroline Glick why the Clinton
administration never showed much concern about this corruption, responded:
“Well, it wasn’t as if the Israelis were particularly concerned about the
problem.”
Ross was of course concerned only with Israel’s priorities, and those were
summed up by Rabin’s hope that Arafat would fight “terrorism” without
interference from Israel’s “Supreme Court and the human rights group
B’Tselem.” The fact that Palestinian legislators and activists were going
to jail or worse merely for speaking of the corruption never spurred the United
States to act.
The tolerance of corruption extended also to the role of Israelis. Last year,
Israel’s Maariv daily sparked a furor when it revealed the extent of the
business and financial relationship between Arafat and his cronies, and Yossi
Ginossar, the former head of interrogations for Israel’s Shin Bet. Ginossar
is accused among other things of managing secret Swiss bank accounts for
Arafat. Israel’s attorney general has started a full-scale criminal
investigation into what many Israelis view as treason. Yet the 1997 Haaretz
report alleged that Ginossar was already acting as a personal go-between for
Arafat’s closest associates in corrupt deals, and taking 5 percent from each
side.
What took the Israelis so long to find their outrage? Under the guise of
“reforming” the Palestinian Authority for the sake of “peace,” we are
witnessing Rabin’s formula being resurrected with only the names changed. The
vague promises of the Oslo Accords have been replaced with the vague promises
of the “road map.” Abbas is being promoted not because he represents the
future for the Palestinians, but precisely because he represents a past.
Ali Abunimah is a Chicago-based Palestinian-Jordanian analyst and the
co-founder of Electronic Intifada. He wrote this commentary for The Daily Star
Bob Lancaster
> "Eli" <elibl...@DELETEhotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Prove it. Document it. Show it. Cite it. Israeli at MIT? God they are coming
> > from all angles now!!!
>
> Oddly enough, I was not aware that even the ISM
> denies that much.
>
> That sector of Rafah had been used for tunneling
> for years. That's how Hamas gets the semtex they
> need for their bombs, and that's why the IDF frequently
> comes by there to visit. (They visited again this week:
> http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0420-1.stm )
>
> Anyway, just so you not think I'm part of
> the assault column besieging this newsgroup, you
> can ask the other regulars here. I'm neither troll
> nor twink, I lurk here and sometimes ask questions
> simply to learn.
>
>
i have been here a long time, and I do recognize your name. Being a
scientist (not a gummit employee, like kissy-poo says, but he can't
tell the difference between Irish and Shawnee, so how could he tell
the difference between private industry and government?), I decided to
run an experiment. I did a google search on Omri Schwarz in
alt.native. I found a posting back in 1994, and some others over the
past two years.
Another dadgum clueless newbie! :-)
-Bob Lancaster
Unknown
On 22-Apr-2003, Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote:
> "Eli" <elibl...@DELETEhotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Prove it. Document it. Show it. Cite it. Israeli at MIT? God they are
> > coming
> > from all angles now!!!
>
> Oddly enough, I was not aware that even the ISM
> denies that much.
>
> That sector of Rafah had been used for tunneling
> for years. That's how Hamas gets the semtex they
> need for their bombs, and that's why the IDF frequently
> comes by there to visit. (They visited again this week:
> http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0420-1.stm )
Is it me or does that article not say a thing about tunneling?
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Eli
genocide. That is what is at the heart of the thread.news:20030423041128...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Omri Schwarz
> >More than the official story. It's the truth.
> >
> >http://www.btnhboard.com/~scrub/corrie.htm
>
> do you take me as stupid omri? i could post a link right back and we could do
> that all night.... proves little to nothing. so don't act as though it does
If you take a closer look at thsi link,
you'll note that the asssertions it makes are backed
by articles from the AP wire. (Look at the links)
>
>
> ->Because before they cleared the whole block, every time
> >they went in to search for tunnels they'd get a full-fledged
> >gun battle. It gets tiresome after a while.
>
> yeah... those people have a lot of nerve not to roll over and let the idf do as
> they will with their homes.
>
> even still though, it's incumbent upon them , if they are to at least pretend
> to be a nation that follows laws, to make certain that those they punish (and
> so severely) have actually committed crimes.... why would you argue against
> that?
>
>
Because this isn't law enforcement. This is war.
> ->The tunnel in that particular area ended in the yard.
> >The bulldozer was moving in to
> >clear the shrubbery that was camouflaging it.
>
> and just happened to make a wrong turn and get the house as well? come on
> omri... you really i'm ridiculously dumb, don't you? rachel corrie wasn't out
> there protecting a shrub. she was protecting a home, as she'd done numerous
> times before, to prevent a family from losing everything they had
>
>
> ->When the alternative is for more tunnels, more semtex,
> >more of my people getting perforated by shrapnel?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> well omri, at least i know what mentality i'm arguing with here... thanks for
> that at least, i guess
>
> sounds like so many americans here who think that terrorizing some folks in
> baghdad is going to show bin laden what's what.... and you wonder why so many
> innocent israelis end up being perforated by shrapnel? you shouldn't.... you
> get what you give omri
>
No, you don't.
We were getting this treatment long before we started
fighting back.
Because from the Arab perrspective, we are their
niggers.
Don't believe me?
Readsome first hand accounts:
jimena-justice.org
>
> ->Wrong again. That block was built with the purpose
> >of hosting tunnels. The families that moved in there
> >were the cover story. They were accomplices.
>
> i'm sure they were omri... in some other parallel universe....
>
> is this the type of shit you have to keep saying to convince even yourself?
> come on omri, i know there's some semblance of logic and understanding in there
> beyond the bias that's built up and hatred that's clouded your vision.... this
> type of thing will only perpetuate the violence you pretend desperately to want
> to end, but are not doing what it truly is going to take to achieve that
>
> by the way, that block had been there since before israel even became a
> country.... now according to your logic omri, why would they need to have
> created it then to smuggle weapons in?
>
You're wrong on that count.
It was trashed in war in 1956, and
rebuilt in the 90's in order to get
the tunnels started.
>
> ->It's hellish. But it's nothing compared to living
> >as a Jew in an Arab country.
>
> i don't hear the converse being so nice either.
Nobody has to live the converse.
They have 200 times the real estate we do.
They don't have to insist on making our enclave
theirs.
Omri Schwarz
> >
> >You might look at the situation and say "hey, they're
> >being pushed around like NDNs where (and are.)" But a closer
> >look and you'll notice that half the Jewish population in Israel
> >is of Jews *from* Arab countries. Who also got pushed around
> >and turned into refugees starting in 1880 and continuing even
> >now and pushed into Israel. And they got pushed around because
> >in Muslim law minorities get treated like blacks got treated
> >under Jim Crow. And when a bunch of Jews got uppity and challenged
> >the status quo in the Muslim World, all Jews got beaten up.
>
> What does that have to do with stealing Palestinian lands and repressing the
> Palestinians???
When you're an oppressed minority and get tired
of being under a thumb, one of the things you can
do is carve out an enclave and concentrate your population
in it, so that in the enclave you are no longer the
minority and will no longer tolerate being kept under a
thumb.
>
>
> >
> >Do you know of any place where NDNs kept white people
> >under a thumb?
>
> I think Jackson say it that way!
If so, then he was lying.
I am not.
>
>
> >
> >Under Muslim law, for one example, Jews do not have
> >the right to physical self defense. If a Muslim feels
> >like beating you up, your duty is to be passive and take it.
> >And that is what Hamas and Islamic Jihad are openly
> >fighting to re-establish! Do you really want to be
> >dragged in? Do you really want NDN activists to be
> >equated with Palestinian activists?
> >
> >
> And besides ruling the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza with no
> representation; what is Israel to do when the Palestinian population becomes
> the majority! This leads to the explusion fanatics!
Yes, indeed it does.
And when most of your own people got expelled
from Arab countries *into* Israel, they're
going to be more than willing to do some expelling themselves.
Keely
which I got plenty of information about him from what he himself gave out.
He writes to his local paper often... mostly ramblings...
Everything that falls upon just-in, he has brought upon himself... try a
google search on his past postings.. the many things he has claimed to be,
and down right insulting my ancestors.. he has a lot of growing up to do..
he be one of those white people trying to claim Indian so he can get some
free school money while Indians from the rez cant get into college because
the money done ran all out.
"Eli" <elibl...@DELETEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3Bnpa.574055$L1.167656@sccrnsc02...
> So BH, you have no problem stating Justin's name, do you have the balls to
> state *YOUR* name here? Or you gonna give a lame excuse? Who enrolled you
> where? Hell I'll give you my names all the way back to the first census
if
> you want. Would YOU or you just gonna keep talking trash? Let those that
> will point and say someone ain't NDN prove they are first or shut up.
> E
> "BravesHeart" <brave...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030422224316...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> > Subject: Re: Rachel Corrie Lost "Line Of Sight"
> > From: "Keely" kden...@cox.net
> > Date: 04/22/2003 5:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> > Message-id: <EDipa.249519$S14....@news1.central.cox.net>
> >
> > Kizszy, I along with others have waited for your proof that your Indian,
> or
> > even Shawnee as you have claimed.. I dont have to prove your not
Shawnee,
> I
> > think your story alone has perked up peoples attentions to knowing your
a
> > white boy... but you never proved you were Shawnee...
> >
> > HE CAME STRAIT TO NATIVES SPEAK FROM A PAL/ISRAEL FORUM. & IT DIDNT TAKE
> NO
> > TIME AT ALL B4 HE WAS CRAMMIN THAT BOARD W/ HIS ANTI ISRAEL/ PRO PAL/
DEMO
> > POLITICS BULLSHIT. NEVER MIND THAT IT WAS A NDN BOARD. HE WENT FROM BEIN
> > SOMEBODY WHO "WANNA FIND OUT ALL I CAN ABOUT NAs" TO BEIN 1 HISSELF. U
> CAN ASK
> > ANY 1 OF A DOZ. FOLKS WHO R REGLAR POSTERS OVER THERE. HIS INTREST IN
> NATIVE
> > BOARDS IS TO TRY & RAM HIS AGENDA HOME TO A SPEC. INTREST GROUP WHO
ALREDY
> GOT
> > FISH TO FRY W/ UNCLE SAM & WHOS POLITICS HE FIGURE DOVETAIL W/ HIS
OWN --
> NO
> > MATTER IF ITS A NDN AGENDA OR NOT. HIS GAME = POLITICS & NUTHIN ELSE.
> OH - &
> > PREACHIN TO OTHERS HOW THEY OUGHTTA THINK & SPEAK. HE HAPPEN TO BE A
> BRAYIN
> > JACKASS W/ THAT AGENDA. BUT IF HE WAS A TRUMPETIN ELEPHANT W/ 1 I
WOUDNT
> > LISTEN TO THAT GODAMN MESS NETHER. CUZ I HAD ABOUT ENUF OF OUR
> MANIPULATON BY
> > WHITE MASTERS WHOS REAL PASSION = THERE OWN POCKET. & THAT BIZNESS OF
> > MANIPULATON IS EXACTLY WHY HE CHOSE US IN THE 1ST DAMN PLACE. I MAY
> WRITE
> > DUMB BUT I DONT THINK SO DUMB. BTW HIS NAME = JUSTIN COEN
>
>
Keely
post it online? Aye Cohen??
"Kispoko2" <kisp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030423025826...@mb-m02.aol.com...
Keely
you cant use photos of two different dozers, in two different places and
claim it to be the same incident... it is clear that those are not the same
incident and when I see for myself a lie like that, then I begin to doubt
everything.... even in a court of law, once you are caught in a lie,
anything else you state will be considered a lie... it is always much easier
to present the truth...
If a person puts one bullet in a gun, spins the barrel, puts the gun to
their heads and pulls the trigger, they are taking a chance. If you stand in
front of a train, and you get ran over, you took that chance, when Rachel
Corrie stood in front of a bull dozer, she too took that chance, a chance
she lost.. it aint murder... it was her own irresponsiblity that cost her
life.. she didnt have any business over there to begin with.
"Aozotorp" <aozo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030423073532...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Kispoko2
>of being under a thumb, one of the things you can
>do is carve out an enclave and concentrate your population
>in it, so that in the enclave you are no longer the
>minority and will no longer tolerate being kept under a
>thumb.
like the puritans did in the northeast?... just carve it right out of others'
lands, huh?
yeah.... i see no parallels there at all with what happened to us.
Kispoko2
>scientist (not a gummit employee, like kissy-poo says, but he can't
>tell the difference between Irish and Shawnee, so how could he tell
>the difference between private industry and government?), I decided to
>run an experiment. I did a google search on Omri Schwarz in
>alt.native. I found a posting back in 1994, and some others over the
>past two years.
>
>Another dadgum clueless newbie! :-)
>
>
>-Bob Lancaster
for cluelessness shitcaster, you take the cake here
Keely
from the North East?? Sheesh!! Fercryingoutloud boy... your white! It was
your ancestors who did the "carving"!! What a hypocrite!
"Kispoko2" <kisp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030423162148...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Kispoko2
>> for years. That's how Hamas gets the semtex they
>> need for their bombs, and that's why the IDF frequently
>> comes by there to visit. (They visited again this week:
>> http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0420-1.stm )
>
>Is it me or does that article not say a thing about tunneling?
i didn't even bother reading it.... it's the idf site for fuck's sake. that's
like going to the pentagon for unbiased reporting on foul acts they've been
involved in
Kispoko2
>you'll note that the asssertions it makes are backed
>by articles from the AP wire. (Look at the links)
again omri, i could link you to the same, and we could well go back and forth
all night..... so tell me.... which ap reference do they use to validate the
idf's official story on the matter? i think you must confuse reporting with
validation
->Because this isn't law enforcement. This is war.
even if that were true... there are still international laws that must be
followed, namely the geneva convention statutes and u.n. resolutions, neither
of which israel has any regard for. it breaks them everyday.
i do not see either how you can justify such brutality of innocents and decry
that of those on your side.... you have lost any semblance of moral standing in
the argument if you cannot regard innocents similarly as opposed to outright
advocating this treatment
->No, you don't.
>
>We were getting this treatment long before we started
>fighting back.
before you started fighting back? when was this? there were terrorist jewish
guerrilla groups operating primarily in the west bank before israel was even
carved into a country.
again omri, you get what you give.... it is a sad fact, but if cannot give
peace, if you cannot give regard, if you cannot allow dignity and basic human
rights.... do not expect them in return. and certainly don't demand them
->Because from the Arab perrspective, we are their
>niggers.
and they yours.... how are palestinians treated in israel proper omri? a good
deal better than their counterparts in the occupied territories, but still
second-class citizens.
>Don't believe me?
>Readsome first hand accounts:
>jimena-justice.org
and how is that different from what israel has done and is doing to
palestinians?
*hello* omri.... jesus, you're complaining about the same things done to your
people that israel has done and is doing to others that you advocate.... you
have no ground to stand on here.
you have some type of weird selective morality going on here. you may have some
valid points to bring up omri, but sadly, they will get lost in the hypocrisy
you create and maintain
->You're wrong on that count.
>It was trashed in war in 1956, and
>rebuilt in the 90's in order to get
>the tunnels started.
many of those homes had been standing for longer than that omri. a friend of
mine had talked to some of those whose homes had been destroyed there, as well
as those whose homes were still there, but 'in the way' and thus threatened. i
know better
it's sad that you continue to insist on finding ways to manipulate the
dialogue.... those palestinians couldn't have wanted to have homes in the area
or continue living where their families had for a long time.... certainly not.
all of them just wanted to build tunnels like the criminals they are. right?...
somethin' like that. had to be
->Nobody has to live the converse.
>They have 200 times the real estate we do.
>They don't have to insist on making our enclave
>theirs.
omri.... 'your' enclave *was* theirs. how dare you.... how many palestinians
were ethnically cleansed from what is now israel? and now you want to act as if
they and not some of the others, especially those who came from europe, were
intruding?.... on their own lands and in their own homes omri?! christ.....
your reasoning here is pretty disturbing as well. those people have little to
nothing to do with the arabs in other parts of the region.... so it doesn't
matter that they have more "real estate" because you're using too broad a
definition of "they" to begin with to suit your own purposes, and neither does
it justify the stealing of land and homes that has been done to the people
living there, just because they didn't happen to be jewish, just as the
reciprocal is wrong. and again, if you cannot denounce them both, then fuck you
and moral double standards. they mean nothing
you're saying, 'they don't have to live here, they can just go elsewhere.' but
why should they have to? and especially why should they have to leave the
places they live just because some people who share similar genetic
characteristics have some land elsewhere, as if they could all just jump up and
move right in with them? that's foolish and advocates something you as a jewish
person ought to be more mindful of.... wasn't that much of the reasoning given
by the third reich to expel jews?
ironic, ennit?
Kispoko2
>genocide. That is what is at the heart of the thread.
>E
sad the obvious has to be pointed out, ennit?
i also don't much enjoy the prospect of my tax-dollars going to fund this
genocidal imperialism either.... but hey, that's just me :P
Kispoko2
>>longer than others, that would be those who do not do stupid things that
>>will cut our lives shorter..
->Yep and those who hide and let opressives forces run amock may live longer -
>but it will be a sad life!
you said it all aozotorp. very true
Omri Schwarz
> >If you take a closer look at thsi link,
> >you'll note that the asssertions it makes are backed
> >by articles from the AP wire. (Look at the links)
>
> again omri, i could link you to the same, and we could well go back and forth
> all night..... so tell me.... which ap reference do they use to validate the
> idf's official story on the matter? i think you must confuse reporting with
> validation
>
>
> ->Because this isn't law enforcement. This is war.
>
> even if that were true... there are still international laws that must be
> followed, namely the geneva convention statutes and u.n. resolutions, neither
> of which israel has any regard for. it breaks them everyday.
Actually, it is the Palestinian side that breaks the
Geneva conventions (more accurately, it does not sign them to
begin with). Perfidy is a war crime, you know.
>
> i do not see either how you can justify such brutality of innocents and decry
Because before my neighbors in Israel left Lybia, they
got to see a mob take one of their kids, a three year old
boy, gouge out his eyes, and amuse themselves watching him
stumble blind and screaming before finally killing him.
Because that is the kind of thing the Palestinian mobs began
doing in 1840.
That is what it's like to be a minority among Arabs.
> that of those on your side.... you have lost any semblance of moral standing in
> the argument if you cannot regard innocents similarly as opposed to outright
> advocating this treatment
I don;t care about moral standing.
Moral standing won't do my people any good when we're
exterminated.
>
> ->No, you don't.
> >
> >We were getting this treatment long before we started
> >fighting back.
>
> before you started fighting back? when was this? there were terrorist jewish
We started fighting back in the Good Friday disturbances of
1920.
We started being brutal about it in 1936.
The massacres that set us off into this course, however,
began in 1840.
> guerrilla groups operating primarily in the west bank before israel was even
> carved into a country.
>
> again omri, you get what you give.... it is a sad fact, but if cannot give
> peace, if you cannot give regard, if you cannot allow dignity and basic human
> rights.... do not expect them in return. and certainly don't demand them
>
> ->Because from the Arab perrspective, we are their
> >niggers.
>
> and they yours.... how are palestinians treated in israel proper omri? a good
> deal better than their counterparts in the occupied territories, but still
> second-class citizens.
Yes, and that sucks.
But at least they can leave.
>
> >Don't believe me?
> >Readsome first hand accounts:
> >jimena-justice.org
>
> and how is that different from what israel has done and is doing to
> palestinians?
The difference is this:
Right now we have an enclave where we can live in dignity.
The Arabs have an area 200 times bigger, where they can
live in dignity. People who are trapped on the wrong side
of the line between the two zones can cross, and live in dignity.
What the Palestinians want is to make our enclave the
same hell for us that the rest of the Arab World,
leaving us with NOWHERE to live in dignity.
>
> *hello* omri.... jesus, you're complaining about the same things done to your
> people that israel has done and is doing to others that you advocate.... you
> have no ground to stand on here.
>
> you have some type of weird selective morality going on here. you may have some
> valid points to bring up omri, but sadly, they will get lost in the hypocrisy
> you create and maintain
>
>
> ->You're wrong on that count.
> >It was trashed in war in 1956, and
> >rebuilt in the 90's in order to get
> >the tunnels started.
>
> many of those homes had been standing for longer than that omri. a friend of
> mine had talked to some of those whose homes had been destroyed there, as well
He was lied to.
> as those whose homes were still there, but 'in the way' and thus threatened. i
> know better
>
> it's sad that you continue to insist on finding ways to manipulate the
> dialogue.... those palestinians couldn't have wanted to have homes in the area
> or continue living where their families had for a long time.... certainly not.
> all of them just wanted to build tunnels like the criminals they are. right?...
> somethin' like that. had to be
>
>
> ->Nobody has to live the converse.
> >They have 200 times the real estate we do.
> >They don't have to insist on making our enclave
> >theirs.
>
> omri.... 'your' enclave *was* theirs. how dare you.... how many palestinians
> were ethnically cleansed from what is now israel? and now you want to act as if
Not half as many as the Jews cleansed INTO Israel,
FROM the Arab World, on the PALESTINIANS' behalf and
at THEIR request.
> they and not some of the others, especially those who came from europe, were
> intruding?.... on their own lands and in their own homes omri?! christ.....
>
> your reasoning here is pretty disturbing as well. those people have little to
> nothing to do with the arabs in other parts of the region.... so it doesn't
Not true at all.
> matter that they have more "real estate" because you're using too broad a
> definition of "they" to begin with to suit your own purposes, and neither does
> it justify the stealing of land and homes that has been done to the people
> living there, just because they didn't happen to be jewish, just as the
> reciprocal is wrong. and again, if you cannot denounce them both, then fuck you
> and moral double standards. they mean nothing
>
> you're saying, 'they don't have to live here, they can just go elsewhere.' but
> why should they have to? and especially why should they have to leave the
> places they live just because some people who share similar genetic
> characteristics have some land elsewhere, as if they could all just jump up and
> move right in with them? that's foolish and advocates something you as a jewish
> person ought to be more mindful of.... wasn't that much of the reasoning given
> by the third reich to expel jews?
>
> ironic, ennit?
--
Unknown
Yah, we should get it from unbiased sources like the Palestinian Authority
and Al Jazeera.
Kispoko2
>And when most of your own people got expelled
>from Arab countries *into* Israel, they're
>going to be more than willing to do some expelling themselves.
which again, makes them the same beast they pretend not to be omri
Kispoko2
>Geneva conventions (more accurately, it does not sign them to
>begin with). Perfidy is a war crime, you know.
and this is meant to imply that israel doesn't commit war crimes? we can go
over some if you like. hell, we've been going over one in the arbitrary
bulldozing of homes. we can extend that though, but i'm sure you'll find a way
to rationalize it. doesn't matter though. a crime is a crime.
explain perfidy on the part of the palestinians.... what incident(s) are you
alluding to here?
->Because before my neighbors in Israel left Lybia, they
>got to see a mob take one of their kids, a three year old
>boy, gouge out his eyes, and amuse themselves watching him
>stumble blind and screaming before finally killing him.
disgusting to hear of, but if it truly made your heart bleed, you would not
advocate doing it to others, would you?
->I don;t care about moral standing.
>Moral standing won't do my people any good when we're
>exterminated.
it is sad you have to keep telling yourself things like that to validate the
brutality you advocate.... do you think the palestinian people do have the same
fears? and when they know that people like yourself who have no regard for
their life and are in total control right now, what do you think that leads to?
leads to things like suicide bombings on innocent israelis, from people who
have had family members killed, been oppressed themselves, been wounded, and
basically stepped on by people with your mentality.... all of it is unfortunate
and sad. some people cannot see beyond themselves
but again omri, you will often get what you give in this world. if you want
israeli people to live in peace, peace must be assured in turn to others.
->We started fighting back in the Good Friday disturbances of
>1920.
>
>We started being brutal about it in 1936.
this was when an infusion of european jews began moving into the area, no? what
do many of your traditionals, the ones who had long been in the area, say about
them?
->> and they yours.... how are palestinians treated in israel proper omri? a
>good
>> deal better than their counterparts in the occupied territories, but still
>> second-class citizens.
>
>Yes, and that sucks.
>But at least they can leave.
what kind of option is that? leave their homes.... their homeland even? that is
no consolation that at least they can leave, and no type of justification for
their treatment either.
->The difference is this:
>
>Right now we have an enclave where we can live in dignity.
>
>The Arabs have an area 200 times bigger, where they can
>live in dignity. People who are trapped on the wrong side
>of the line between the two zones can cross, and live in dignity.
>
>What the Palestinians want is to make our enclave the
>same hell for us that the rest of the Arab World,
>leaving us with NOWHERE to live in dignity.
right now the only one truly making a hell out of the other's enclave is the
israelis in the occupied territory.... occasionally that hell visits israel....
do you enjoy it? obviously not. but you seem to enjoy it existing everyday in
the occupied territories. so, you cannot be surprised when it makes a visit
upon those who created it, nor can you decry that while holding to much the
same strategy as those you called 'foul' against..
if peace is what you want, call for an end to the occupation. but you don't
want that do you? you want expansion into their lands even further, right?...
then you don't really want peace omri
->He was lied to.
i'm sure he was
->Not half as many as the Jews cleansed INTO Israel,
>FROM the Arab World, on the PALESTINIANS' behalf and
>at THEIR request.
what did your site say, 600,000 into israel? and israel made refugees of
700-800,000 palestinians.... hardly the picture you painted omri.
and i notice you didn't dare touch my comparison between thrid reich policies
of expelling jews and those you're advocating now..... again, some pretty
ironic and twisted stuff.
if you cannot learn from the plight of your own people, you do their memory
great dishonor.
Lridge164
boblan...@zxmail.com (Bob Lancaster) writes:
>brave...@aol.com (BravesHeart) wrote in message
>news:<20030422033923...@mb-m05.aol.com>...
>> From: kisp...@aol.com
>>
>> > keep it the fuck off my screen, will
>> >ya darlin'? i expect better at alt.native, so i don't mind demanding it.
>>
>> >again, i expect more out of alt.native, and goddamn i
>> >better see it.... that article was just
>>
>> > i
>> >expect those on alt.native to not be so easily led astray,
>>
>> >
>> >step your game up lisa dillon
>>
>> WHO THE GODAMN HELL DIED & APPOINT U BOARD NAZI U MOFO WANNABE ? THE WOMAN
>> POST A LINK TO A G.D. ARTICAL LIKE ALL THE REST OF US DO. SHE DIDNT WRITE
>IT.
>> SHES ENTITLE TO HER OPINON SAME AS NE1 ELSE. SHE AINT 1 OF YOUR "CONVERTS"
>TO
>> ISLAM. THIS BOARD AINT CAST IN YOUR IMAGE. SHE GOT THE RIGHT OF FREE
>SPEECH =
>> SUMTHIN YOUR ALWAYS THROWIN IN FOLKS FACE AS WHAT YOUR BRAYIN JACKASS
>POLITICAL
>> PARTY FIGHTS 4. U CLAIM YOUR 20 YRS OLD. WHERE THE HELL U GET OFF TALKIN
>TO A
>> WOMAN LIKE THAT WHOS OLD ENUF TO BE YOUR MAMA U WHITE MAGGOT? STEP YOUR
>OWN
>> GAME UP U SICK WHINER. SHE AINT YOUR MAID. FROM NOW ON MAY BE U OUGHTTA
>ADRESS
>> HER AS "MAAM" & MRS. DILLON. & IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO SAY "PLEASE"
>WHILE
>> YOUR AT IT PISSANT
>
>No need to be so polite, BravesHeart, what do you *really* think? :-)
>
>Don't you love it when some pretendian gets on the board, insults
>folks who have been here for years, and tries to tell us how we're
>*supposed* to think?
>
>
>I guess anyone who gets their news from any source other than
>Palestinian terrorists has been 'led astray'.
>
>Sure, I feel bad for the Corrie family, but I'm not going to cry over
>someone who dies doing some dumb ass stunt in a military zone while
>protecting terrorists.
>
>As for kissy-poo: I see how he treats his elders, I see that Keely
>has info than he isn't really Shawnee, and I see him kissing up to
>terrorists who kill women and children and then dance in the street
>when the World Trade Center fell. Tells me all I need to know about
>him.
>
>-Bob
>
>
bob,
both u & b.h.
make valid points
*
kissypoo's hamas agenda be so transparent,
while he, himself
is so opaque
Lridge164
<ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> writes:
omri,
let me clue u in on who
u'r conversin' wit:
kissypoo is only a delusional 20 year old punk
who dreams of bein' a "hamas shawnee warrior"
it all boils down to da fact,
he really duznt have a clue as to
what's actually goin' on
in da israeli- palestinian conflict
except what he reads on a hamas propaganda web site
Omri Schwarz
> >Actually, it is the Palestinian side that breaks the
> >Geneva conventions (more accurately, it does not sign them to
> >begin with). Perfidy is a war crime, you know.
>
> and this is meant to imply that israel doesn't commit war crimes? we can go
> over some if you like. hell, we've been going over one in the arbitrary
> bulldozing of homes. we can extend that though, but i'm sure you'll find a way
> to rationalize it. doesn't matter though. a crime is a crime.
>
> explain perfidy on the part of the palestinians.... what incident(s) are you
> alluding to here?
Perfidy means using the cover of someone or
something that has a protected status for combat
(like attacking while waving a white flag,
or using an ambulance to transport weapons).
Palestinians have been doing that all througghout this war,
and Americans got to see a taste of it in the combat in Iraq.
>
>
> ->Because before my neighbors in Israel left Lybia, they
> >got to see a mob take one of their kids, a three year old
> >boy, gouge out his eyes, and amuse themselves watching him
> >stumble blind and screaming before finally killing him.
>
> disgusting to hear of, but if it truly made your heart bleed, you would not
> advocate doing it to others, would you?
I don't.
>
> ->I don;t care about moral standing.
> >Moral standing won't do my people any good when we're
> >exterminated.
>
> it is sad you have to keep telling yourself things like that to validate the
> brutality you advocate.... do you think the palestinian people do have the same
> fears? and when they know that people like yourself who have no regard for
No, theydon't have same fears.
They have the fear that the traditional supremacy thet had
over Jews will be lost forever.
Our intent is to make that particular fear come true.
> their life and are in total control right now, what do you think that leads to?
Leads to them attacking us much less than they used to.
> leads to things like suicide bombings on innocent israelis, from people who
> have had family members killed, been oppressed themselves, been wounded, and
> basically stepped on by people with your mentality.... all of it is unfortunate
> and sad. some people cannot see beyond themselves
>
> but again omri, you will often get what you give in this world. if you want
> israeli people to live in peace, peace must be assured in turn to others.
>
>
> ->We started fighting back in the Good Friday disturbances of
> >1920.
> >
> >We started being brutal about it in 1936.
>
> this was when an infusion of european jews began moving into the area, no? what
Yes. We finally had enough of us together in one
place to start fighting back.
The vioelence we fought back against, however,
started in 1840.
> do many of your traditionals, the ones who had long been in the area, say about
> them?
>
>
> ->> and they yours.... how are palestinians treated in israel proper omri? a
> >good
> >> deal better than their counterparts in the occupied territories, but still
> >> second-class citizens.
> >
> >Yes, and that sucks.
> >But at least they can leave.
>
> what kind of option is that? leave their homes.... their homeland even? that is
The same option they tried to force on us.
> no consolation that at least they can leave, and no type of justification for
> their treatment either.
>
>
> ->The difference is this:
> >
> >Right now we have an enclave where we can live in dignity.
> >
> >The Arabs have an area 200 times bigger, where they can
> >live in dignity. People who are trapped on the wrong side
> >of the line between the two zones can cross, and live in dignity.
> >
> >What the Palestinians want is to make our enclave the
> >same hell for us that the rest of the Arab World,
> >leaving us with NOWHERE to live in dignity.
>
> right now the only one truly making a hell out of the other's enclave is the
> israelis in the occupied territory.... occasionally that hell visits israel....
Too damn bad for them.
They insist on subjecting us to Sharia law.
They can face the consequences.
> do you enjoy it? obviously not. but you seem to enjoy it existing everyday in
> the occupied territories. so, you cannot be surprised when it makes a visit
> upon those who created it, nor can you decry that while holding to much the
> same strategy as those you called 'foul' against..
>
> if peace is what you want, call for an end to the occupation. but you don't
> want that do you? you want expansion into their lands even further, right?...
> then you don't really want peace omri
>
>
> ->He was lied to.
>
> i'm sure he was
>
> ->Not half as many as the Jews cleansed INTO Israel,
> >FROM the Arab World, on the PALESTINIANS' behalf and
> >at THEIR request.
>
> what did your site say, 600,000 into israel? and israel made refugees of
> 700-800,000 palestinians.... hardly the picture you painted omri.
>
It gives the 600,000 figure?
A bit controversial, that.
No matter.
Toss in the other 600,000 (Jews who fled
Arab countries but went to France and the US)
and it more than evens out.
> and i notice you didn't dare touch my comparison between thrid reich policies
> of expelling jews and those you're advocating now..... again, some pretty
> ironic and twisted stuff.
>
> if you cannot learn from the plight of your own people, you do their memory
> great dishonor.
>
Oh, I learned, allright.
Retreat. Regroup. And start fighting back.
> >> matter that they have more "real estate" because you're using too broad a
> >> definition of "they" to begin with to suit your own purposes, and neither
> >does
> >> it justify the stealing of land and homes that has been done to the people
> >> living there, just because they didn't happen to be jewish, just as the
> >> reciprocal is wrong. and again, if you cannot denounce them both, then fuck
> >you
> >> and moral double standards. they mean nothing
> >>
> >> you're saying, 'they don't have to live here, they can just go elsewhere.'
> >but
> >> why should they have to? and especially why should they have to leave the
> >
> >> places they live just because some people who share similar genetic
> >> characteristics have some land elsewhere, as if they could all just jump up
> >and
> >> move right in with them? that's foolish and advocates something you as a
> >jewish
> >> person ought to be more mindful of.... wasn't that much of the reasoning
> >given
> >> by the third reich to expel jews?
> >>
> >> ironic, ennit?
>
--
Eli
What *exactly* do you advocate as the final solution to the problem of
Palestine natives?
Secondly- can you log into JCSC/Hillel and possibly help me find someone?
Married friends- I believe they are in Brooklyn. I was their shabbat goy
until I read a book on Jewish etiquette and called them on it. heh. Good
people.
Eli
"Omri Schwarz" <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:octk7dj...@magic-pi-ball.mit.edu...
Omri Schwarz
> Curious, Omri-
> What *exactly* do you advocate as the final solution to the problem of
> Palestine natives?
Detente for the next 20 years or so,
while Iraq gets built into something sane
that demonstrates to both sides that a better
solution is possible.
Aozotorp
Israeli soldiers snatched a Palestinian International Solidarity
Movement (ISM) coordinator and an Italian journalist yesterday whilst
they were trying to document and stop soldier abuse of Palestinian
civilians. Two people with cameras, ISM coordinator, Qashoo and the
Italian journalist, Thomaso Besavi were grabbed, thrown into a
military vehicle and taken to an Israeli military base. They are
currently being held at the police station in the illegal settlement
of Ariel. Thomaso is being threatened with deportation while Osama, a
Palestinian, is in danger of long-term arrest and physical abuse,
including torture.
Last week Israeli Army Chief of Staff, Lt.-General Moshe Yaalon
stated that he had given orders to have ISM volunteers removed from
the West Bank and Gaza, because we "limit [their] freedom of
action." Several ISM volunteers have been killed or wounded in
recent weeks.
While the ISM is oft criticized by Israeli military and governmental
sources, a better description of the danger comes from Danny Dworsky
former Israeli soldiers and currently an army reservist agent for the
Military Justice Department. He says, " If the ISM is Guilty of
anything, they are guilty of making things not as bad as they could
be. They teach non violent means for Palestinians to further their
cause and they more often than not slow the progress of the gigantic
hole we in Israeli establishment are digging for ourselves. In
bringing Israelis and Palestinians together in a common goal of
achieving peace and justice, ISM often provides that little bit of
sanity and hope that so often deter us from acts of desperation,
rage, and revenge."
Today it was business as usual in the area. Two Palestinians,
including a teenager, were killed by Israeli gunfire and five people
were wounded in Karawat Bani Zeid village near Ramallah. The two
Palestinians were 18-year-old high school student Faker Arar and taxi
driver Ussama Hamdallah Sharif, 24. The troops fired at high school
students after they began throwing stones at them, Israeli reports
said. The taxi driver was hit when he passed by the scene, and died
from his wounds.
And an Israeli security guard died Thursday while blocking a suicide
bomber from reaching a busy train platform in central Israel. Israeli
media reports identified the slain guard as Alexander Kostiyuk, 24.
Fourteen other people were wounded in the attack in Kfar Sava, a town
northeast of Tel Aviv. The security guard, perhaps alerted by a black
coat worn by the bomber despite the balmy weather, kept him from
reaching the platform by asking for his identity papers, police said.
Then the bomber reached in his pocket and detonated his explosives,
killing himself and the guard instantly.
Sources: Jerusalem Post, Albawaba, Palestine Chronicle, ISM
Omri Schwarz
BravesHeart
omri,
let me clue u in on who
u'r conversin' wit:
kissypoo is only a delusional 20 year old punk
who dreams of bein' a "hamas shawnee warrior"
it all boils down to da fact,
he really duznt have a clue as to
what's actually goin' on
in da israeli- palestinian conflict
except what he reads on a hamas propaganda web site
YOUR WAY TO SANE RIDGE TO FOOL W/ HIS KIND. HE BRUNG HAMAS W/ HIM TO THE
"NATIVES SPEAK" BOARD & THE BOARD NEVER WAS THE SAME.
I GOT SICK OF HIS TRYIN TO MAKE
PALESTINES FIGHT A NDN WAR. IT AINT. GOT NO BEARIN ON NUTHIN OF OURS. & NETHER
DO THE PALS. THAT WAS HIS WHOLE INFILTRATON INTO OUR WORLD
Lridge164
(Aozotorp) writes:
>Sources: Jerusalem Post, Albawaba, Palestine Chronicle, ISM
>
>
huh?
no input from da hamas?
Donald L Ferrt
ou call Jerusalem Post close to hamas = Dolt!
Omri Schwarz
> >From: lrid...@aol.com
>
>
>
> omri,
>
> let me clue u in on who
>
> u'r conversin' wit:
>
> kissypoo is only a delusional 20 year old punk
>
> who dreams of bein' a "hamas shawnee warrior"
Oy. As if NDNs don't have enough to deal with..
>
>
> it all boils down to da fact,
>
> he really duznt have a clue as to
>
> what's actually goin' on
>
> in da israeli- palestinian conflict
>
> except what he reads on a hamas propaganda web site
>
> YOUR WAY TO SANE RIDGE TO FOOL W/ HIS KIND. HE BRUNG HAMAS W/ HIM TO THE
> "NATIVES SPEAK" BOARD & THE BOARD NEVER WAS THE SAME.
> I GOT SICK OF HIS TRYIN TO MAKE
> PALESTINES FIGHT A NDN WAR. IT AINT. GOT NO BEARIN ON NUTHIN OF OURS. & NETHER
> DO THE PALS. THAT WAS HIS WHOLE INFILTRATON INTO OUR WORLD
--