Native American Chat Rooms
pioneerpress
rooms with a Native American theme. I am looking to talk to avid users
about the uses, as well as the benefits and down sides of having chat
rooms geared toward Native Americans.
tgat...@pioneerpress.com
Lookinghawk
others about yourself.
Mmmmmmmm?
Lookinghawk
"pioneerpress" <tgat...@pioneerpress.com> wrote in message
news:ee565ab0.01070...@posting.google.com...
RedLakeOgitchida
I am interested in talking to you about Native American (NA) chat. I'm
located here, in the Twin Cities - I live in Crystal. I've been a regular
chatter for over three years at Yahoo. I feel that I could give you a
good objective view of NA chat. I'm a well-known artist and writer in the
Native American community. I am also a journalist with The Circle
Newspaper. Because of my reputation, I would agree to be quoted only if
my online name is used - RedLakeOgitchida. If you are interested in
talking, please email a respond to this email address.
Wayne George
rooms".....Question...Why would you limit yourself to just "American
Indians" ?...when you have all of Turtle Island( and this includes Mexico
and Central America).....Before we know it you guys in the United States of
America will think your the only people in North America, known as Turtle
Island,before contact.
As I see it ,and in my humble opinion, you will miss out on what the true
impact of the "computer" and "chat rooms" is.
Perhaps I may suggest that you first "recognize" and acknowledge all The
People of Turtle Island in your study. I'm sure that what you will find,to
be well worth the search.
respectfully
The Smiling Crow :-)
~~~~
pioneerpress <tgat...@pioneerpress.com> wrote in message
news:ee565ab0.01070...@posting.google.com...
john mohdom
>Before we know it you guys in the United States of
>America will think your the only people in North America,
Hey crow..."we" have already done that. ...took the hemispheric name
"Americans" for residents of just the United States. ...better watch out,
we're casting a longing eye on that tree of yours 80)
john
Wayne George
guys...but I suppose there's an answer somewhere to that. So when are you
going to post some reply to "tgatewoods" request in regards to "chatrooms"?
. I can think of a few benefits they have given this ole "Indian". As for
the "downsides",I don't have any...cept for the amount of money I have to
put out to keep myself informed and amused at the same time.
"Does ain't Ameerikaans ,does is Yankees", he said,pointing with his
lips,cause to point with your finger was considered an agressive act. "days
OK,days juss wantst taw piss on everythin, like does wolves,and call it
theirs.
I've read somewhere,that one is not supposed to "covet anothers tree",or
something like that.
regards
The Smiling Crow :-)
~~~~
john mohdom <johnm...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9i4fva$l02$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
john mohdom
Wayne George wrote in message ...
>In reality John Mohdom....I'm beginning to wonder what's keepin you
>guys...but I suppose there's an answer somewhere to that. So when are you
>going to post some reply to "tgatewoods" request in regards to "chatrooms"?
I talked to her last night.
>. I can think of a few benefits they have given this ole "Indian". As for
>the "downsides",I don't have any...cept for the amount of money I have to
>put out to keep myself informed and amused at the same time.
well, except for the trolls, I find it an interesting forum for exchanging
ideas. I did mention to her that just five years ago I subscribed to a
number of Indian newspapers and periodicals, but now the the news is up to
date and from several sources; I consider that a big improvement. I even
created a genealogy egroup and met family members I didn't even know
existed. I think for those of us online it has both made smaller and larger
Indian Country.
>"Does ain't Ameerikaans ,does is Yankees", he said,pointing with his
>lips,cause to point with your finger was considered an agressive act. "days
>OK,days juss wantst taw piss on everythin, like does wolves,and call it
>theirs.
Yeah, I suppose Yankees is some sorta substitute for Amerikkkans. However,
some of our southern citizens will never admit to being Yankees. I think
some of those folks never admitted to any termination of manifest destiny.
>I've read somewhere,that one is not supposed to "covet anothers tree",or
>something like that.
>regards
well, first we have to clearcut all of ours & send it off to Japan...then
watch out!
john
wolvbytch
i am not sure exactly what you want, but the aol native american chats
are filled with people who are not indian, and who try to tell indians
how they should be...
they are really quite funny, unless one is in a bad mood to start
with...
i saw no benefit in them...
i have left aol because i feel they have nothing to offer me as an
indian woman...
even the boards are filled with xtian whiners...
Wayne George
either?
regardes
The Smiling Crow :-)
~~~~
wolvbytch <fem...@cascadeaccess.com> wrote in message
news:922b8a5b.01070...@posting.google.com...
Bobcat
Hi Wolf... It's good to see you here. You are so right about the AOL
boards being filled with xtian whiners... Isn't that where crazy Donna
spawned from?
hugs,
bobcat
wolvbytch
and now, this new format since google has taken over deja..
hummphhh!!!
"Wayne George" <wa...@turtleback.net> wrote in message news:<0zq17.38855$Mb7.1...@brie.direct.ca>...
Annie
"RedLakeOgitchida" <rd...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:3B465420...@qwest.net...AOL NA Chat is Romper Room compared to Yahoo. However...don't matter what NA chat you go to...the waaniibiz are always around.~ RedLake
Graeme Butler
Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:tkk40a4...@corp.supernews.com...
Annie
"Graeme Butler" <tauranga...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message news:3b4a2c25$1...@clear.net.nz...
Annie
Annie.
"Wayne George" <wa...@turtleback.net> wrote in message
news:ijs27.40364$Mb7.1...@brie.direct.ca...
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1089F.CD3C7C00
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I have the only true and correct answer to your question.....but before =
> I give it to you (Annie and GB) run the question through your thought =
> process one more time...Answer your own question,then if you still need =
> to hear it from a Member of The First Nations...then I will give it to =
> you. your serve......
> regards
>
> The Smiling Crow :-)
> ~~~~
>
> Graeme Butler <tauranga...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message =
> news:3b4a2c25$1...@clear.net.nz...
> Yeah that is an interesting concept....like a Maori wanting to be a =
> Scot.
>
> Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
> news:tkk40a4...@corp.supernews.com...
> I wonder if there are wannabies among the First Nations Peoples. =
> Like a MicMac who wants to be an Apache, or a Cree wanting to be a =
> Mohawk ... or say an Australian aboriginal.
>
> A.:)
> "RedLakeOgitchida" <rd...@qwest.net> wrote in message =
> news:3B465420...@qwest.net...
> AOL NA Chat is Romper Room compared to Yahoo. However...don't =
> matter what NA chat you go to...the waaniibiz are always around.=20
> ~ RedLake=20
>
> Bobcat wrote:=20
>
> fem...@cascadeaccess.com (wolvbytch) wrote in message =
> news:<922b8a5b.01070...@posting.google.com>...=20
> > tgat...@pioneerpress.com (pioneerpress) wrote in message =
> news:<ee565ab0.01070...@posting.google.com>...=20
> > > I am working on a story for the St. Paul Pioneer Press about =
> chat=20
> > > rooms with a Native American theme. I am looking to talk to =
> avid users=20
> > > about the uses, as well as the benefits and down sides of =
> having chat=20
> > > rooms geared toward Native Americans.=20
> > > tgat...@pioneerpress.com=20
> >=20
> > i am not sure exactly what you want, but the aol native =
> american chats=20
> > are filled with people who are not indian, and who try to tell =
> indians=20
> > how they should be...=20
> > they are really quite funny, unless one is in a bad mood to =
> start=20
> > with...=20
> > i saw no benefit in them...=20
> > i have left aol because i feel they have nothing to offer me =
> as an=20
> > indian woman...=20
> > even the boards are filled with xtian whiners...=20
> Hi Wolf... It's good to see you here. You are so right about =
> the AOL=20
> boards being filled with xtian whiners... Isn't that where crazy =
> Donna=20
> spawned from?=20
>
> hugs,=20
> bobcat
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1089F.CD3C7C00
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the only true and correct answer =
> to your=20
> question.....but before I give it to you (Annie and GB) run the question =
> through=20
> your thought process one more time...Answer your own question,then if =
> you still=20
> need to hear it from a Member of The First Nations...then I will give it =
> to=20
> you. your serve......</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Smiling Crow :-)</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>~~~~</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
> 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>Graeme Butler <<A=20
> =
> href=3D"mailto:tauranga...@clear.net.nz">tauranga...@clear.net.=
> nz</A>>=20
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
> href=3D"news:3b4a2c25$1...@clear.net.nz">news:3b4a2c25$1...@clear.net.nz</A>...=
> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yeah that is an interesting concept....like a =
> Maori wanting=20
> to be a Scot.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>Annie <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:apal...@yahoo.com">apal...@yahoo.com</A>> wrote =
> in message=20
> <A=20
> =
> href=3D"news:tkk40a4...@corp.supernews.com">news:tkk40a4hmf9d48@corp.=
> supernews.com</A>...</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wonder if there are wannabies =
> among the First=20
> Nations Peoples. Like a MicMac who wants to be an Apache, or a Cree =
> wanting=20
> to be a Mohawk ... or say an Australian aboriginal.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A.:)</FONT></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"RedLakeOgitchida" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:rd...@qwest.net">rd...@qwest.net</A>> wrote in =
> message <A=20
> =
> href=3D"news:3B465420...@qwest.net">news:3B465420...@qwest.ne=
> t</A>...</DIV>AOL=20
> NA Chat is Romper Room compared to Yahoo. However...don't =
> matter=20
> what NA chat you go to...the waaniibiz are always around.=20
> <P>~ RedLake=20
> <P>Bobcat wrote:=20
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">fem...@cascadeaccess.com (wolvbytch) =
> wrote in=20
> message =
> news:<922b8a5b.01070...@posting.google.com>...=20
> <BR>> tgat...@pioneerpress.com (pioneerpress) wrote in =
> message=20
> news:<ee565ab0.01070...@posting.google.com>... =
> <BR>>=20
> > I am working on a story for the St. Paul Pioneer Press =
> about chat=20
> <BR>> > rooms with a Native American theme. I am looking =
> to talk=20
> to avid users <BR>> > about the uses, as well as the =
> benefits and=20
> down sides of having chat <BR>> > rooms geared toward =
> Native=20
> Americans. <BR>> > tgat...@pioneerpress.com <BR>> =
> <BR>> i=20
> am not sure exactly what you want, but the aol native american =
> chats=20
> <BR>> are filled with people who are not indian, and who try =
> to tell=20
> indians <BR>> how they should be... <BR>> they are really =
> quite=20
> funny, unless one is in a bad mood to start <BR>> with... =
> <BR>> i=20
> saw no benefit in them... <BR>> i have left aol because i =
> feel they=20
> have nothing to offer me as an <BR>> indian woman... <BR>> =
> even=20
> the boards are filled with xtian whiners...=20
> <P>Hi Wolf... It's good to see you here. You are so right =
> about=20
> the AOL <BR>boards being filled with xtian whiners... Isn't that =
> where=20
> crazy Donna <BR>spawned from?=20
> <P>hugs,=20
> <BR>bobcat</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
> </HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1089F.CD3C7C00--
>
Annie
(:)PIGS Quote of the Day:
"Did people build this, or did
Indians?"
"Why did they build the ruins so close to the road?"
"What did
they worship in the kivas-their own make-up religion?"
"Do you know of any
undiscovered ruins?"
"Why did the Indians decide to live in
Colorado?"
-questions asked of park rangers at the Mesa Verde National
Park
-from "The 365 Stupidest Things Ever Said" by Ross & Kathryn Petras
in Page A
Day Calendar, <http://www.page-a-day.com/>
"Graeme Butler" <tauranga...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message news:3b4a2c25$1...@clear.net.nz...
Graeme Butler
Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:tkm17h4...@corp.supernews.com...
LOL... Greame, who on earth would want to be a Scot?!
I have a Maori friend who found that he had some scots heritage when a long lost relative decided it was time to introduce the noble antipodean savage to the tribes of Urquhart.He has never stopped talking about it!Cheers
Té Bheag
It's the Americans
They all want to be Scots, but they all think they are ancestors
were chiefs. They come over to visit the clann lands and strut
around in the castles never imagining their ancestors may have
lived in the cottages outside.
It was bad after Brigadoon but Mel Gibson made it so much
worse with Braveheart! Even some Scots children believed it.
Té Bheag
Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tkm17h4...@corp.supernews.com...
Graeme Butler
news:9ifu3d$ih7$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
> Annie
> It's the Americans
> They all want to be Scots, but they all think they are ancestors
> were chiefs. They come over to visit the clann lands and strut
> around in the castles never imagining their ancestors may have
> lived in the cottages outside.
> It was bad after Brigadoon but Mel Gibson made it so much
> worse with Braveheart! Even some Scots children believed it.
>
> Té Bheag
It is amazing because just fifteen short decades ago Scots were arriving on
the beaches of New Zealand where they strutted about like natives....I
suppose it is the green grass on the other side syndrome that makes this
happen.
JRWolf
I am so disappointed!! I just ordered my official Kilt underoos and
everything! And now you tell me I'm *not* descended from clan chiefs!! :-)
Now, actually, if anyone who saw BraveHeart came away thinking they were
related to clan chiefs they surely didn't watch they movie too closely!
Only Robert the Bruce and his family lived in a "castle". They rest lived
in the typical cottages. And for those who found a fantasy from
Brigadoon....please don't tell us Americans were searching all through the
highlands for Brigadoon!
Yikes!!
JRWolf
"Té Bheag" <TeB...@arainnmhor.com> wrote in message
news:9ifu3d$ih7$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
Annie
I was just teasing Graeme, I meant no offence :)
Have never been to Scotland, but I am planning a big trip in Europe next
summer, will definitely visit Scotland ...
A.:)
"Té Bheag" <TeB...@arainnmhor.com> wrote in message
news:9ifu3d$ih7$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
Wayne George
before I give you my answer...a few words about "wannabes" in my opinion. I
like wannabes,I think we all have this trait in our makeup(when I say "we"
I'm referring to all people of Earth) I think it is the nature of our
thinking to want at times to be somethings we art not.. So we seek others
whose cultural ways appeal to us...I have no problems with "pretending" to
be this or that, nor to the asking of seemingly silly questions. A question
is only "silly" to the one who sees it as such. "Wannabe" is much to broad a
word for myself alone to comprehend....we see definitions of it in the words
of others. On a personal level,I've never wished to be anything other than
what I saw or was told I was, an Anishinaabe. I like to think of myself as a
man who can and does "fantasize" in the areas of my mind ,and no further(in
other words the fantasy stays there).
Perhaps I've not had much contact with the people of my culture
....yes,I'm sure there are.
respectfully
The Smiling Crow :-)
~~~~
Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tkmef2...@corp.supernews.com...
Zastee2
<JRW...@barefootxNOSPAMxcreations.com> writes:
>Now, actually, if anyone who saw BraveHeart came away thinking they were
>related to clan chiefs they surely didn't watch they movie too closely!
>Only Robert the Bruce and his family lived in a "castle". They rest lived
>in the typical cottages. And for those who found a fantasy from
>Brigadoon....please don't tell us Americans were searching all through the
>highlands for Brigadoon!
I Remeber a Former Poster here that was For Sure thought She was related to
Robert the Bruce!!
And all the Kings of Europe n Indian Chiefs to!
LOL!
Wayne George
...ok,what was her name...and in case you don't drop names...it's ok
The Smiling Crow :-)
~~~~
Zastee2 <zas...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010711145956...@nso-mh.aol.com...
Annie
all ready to get defensive ....lol ... but you are your usual gentle smiling
self... Thank you, good answer -:)
I watched a Canadian movie recently on this topic called "Grey Owl". It's
based on a real story that happened at the beginning of the century.
Annie.
"Wayne George" <wa...@turtleback.net> wrote in message
news:Oi137.41949$Mb7.1...@brie.direct.ca...
john mohdom
Annie wrote in message ...
>Well, Wayne, you almost got me scared with your previous message, ... I was
>all ready to get defensive ....lol ... but you are your usual gentle
smiling
>self... Thank you, good answer -:)
>I watched a Canadian movie recently on this topic called "Grey Owl". It's
>based on a real story that happened at the beginning of the century.
I find it interesting that to this very day there are Indians who have a
very negative reaction to that guy. apparently they see him as a turn of the
century wannabe. Of course at the same time he was winning adulation the
actual Indian population was at an all time (post Columbus) low...around a
quarter of a million in the U.S. in 1900. I guess some bitterness is
understandable.
Rose
Bet he was happy his woman stuck by him huh
I was waitin for the golden eye music to come on at some stage
Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tkpddfn...@corp.supernews.com...
john mohdom
Rose wrote in message <3b4c...@news.iprimus.com.au>...
>yeah I watched that, he kinda looked native didn't he lol
>Bet he was happy his woman stuck by him huh
>I was waitin for the golden eye music to come on at some stage
I actually thought the film was pretty well done; I know of others who just
couldn't get past the idea of his lies.
I don't think I ever saw him as James Bond.
Kerchee
>Annie
>It's the Americans
>They all want to be Scots, but they all think they are ancestors
>were chiefs. They come over to visit the clann lands and strut
>around in the castles never imagining their ancestors may have
>lived in the cottages outside.
>It was bad after Brigadoon but Mel Gibson made it so much
>worse with Braveheart! Even some Scots children believed it.
>
>Té Bheag
Te...that's the same thing that happened after Dances with Wolves! All of a
sudden, all these NDNs started showing up.
Rick
********************************************
"Before I judge a man, I walk a mile in his mocassins. Then if I don't like
him, I am a mile away, and I got his mocassins."
Té Bheag
Hi Annie
I've not been away but I don't get too much time
to post as I'm about 2300 words short of my
disertation. Still thats my own fault. I wannabe
educated and I want to have fun.
Té Bheag
Annie <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tkooje6...@corp.supernews.com...
Té Bheag
JR I really have met Americans who believe the story
of Brigadoon and they hate to be told it's a German
story not even a Scots one. These are often the same
people who believe in "The Kirkin' 'O The Tartan".
Have you heard that one. It's priceless. :-)
For official kilt underoos check out
http://www.angelfire.com/on/lummus/Scotland.html
Zastee If that poster was related to the Bruce she
would very likely be related to all the royal families
in Europe as they have all been intermarrying for
at least a thousand years. Inbred doesn't quite cover it!
I don't know how that links to Indian Chiefs though but
I'm sure I saw photographs of English royals wearing
some very fancy looking feathers.
Té Bheag
Wayne George <wa...@turtleback.net> wrote in message
news:QM137.42171$Mb7.1...@brie.direct.ca...
Rose
john mohdom <johnm...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9iijf4$bbe$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
wolvbytch
gotten the boot from that one...then it "free" aol offer...
she left for a bit, and then was resurrected under a different screen
name...
i understand her e-mails to a man in oklahoma, harrassing him, and
from what i hear, threatening bush, has her offline for the moment...
the last copy of an e-mail i saw showed a very frightened and not so
pro-fbi person...IF indeed it was genuine, and i have no reason to
believe otherwise...
you know the old saying...f**k with the bull, ya get the horn...
> Hi Wolf... It's good to see you here. You are so right about the
> AOL
> boards being filled with xtian whiners... Isn't that where crazy
> Donna
> spawned from?
>
> hugs,
> bobcat
>
>
> --
wolvbytch
'tis but joost tha scots and tha others retarnin' hame...
and good to 'em!!!
tha moor, tha better!!!!
"T?Bheag" <TeB...@arainnmhor.com> wrote in message news:<9ifu3d$ih7$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
Anuh1
writes:
>I wonder if there are wannabies among the First Nations Peoples. Like a =
>MicMac who wants to be an Apache, or a Cree wanting to be a Mohawk ... =
>or say an Australian aboriginal.
Actually, I've found a few who could probably qualify. ;-D But for the most
part, we seem to be happy with who we are!
Redbear55
Lakota. Most of the ones like him that I have met, are what I call
"born again" Indians: they lived most of their lives denying what they
are, and one day decide to stop denying. So then they go read some
books and presume that Lakota beliefs (or whichever tribe) are some
how are superior to their own tribe's beliefs. Or they don't have
contact with their own people to learn what it is that their people
actually believe.
an...@aol.com (Anuh1) wrote in message news:<20010725114848...@nso-ch.aol.com>...
Annie
A.
"Redbear55" <redb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e091071.01072...@posting.google.com...
Anuh1
redb...@my-deja.com (Redbear55) writes:
>I have to agree here, although I do know an Apache who is a wannabe
>Lakota. Most of the ones like him that I have met, are what I call
>"born again" Indians: they lived most of their lives denying what they
>are, and one day decide to stop denying. So then they go read some
>books and presume that Lakota beliefs (or whichever tribe) are some
>how are superior to their own tribe's beliefs. Or they don't have
>contact with their own people to learn what it is that their people
>actually believe.
You will always find a few. But like you say, they spent their whole lives
trying to be someone else (or like one friend of mine, spent their whole lives
trying to convince the world they were full-blooded something else!)
Redbear55
When Indians do it, it is ragic because they are killing their own
culture. Oh, not intentionally, but the effect is the same.
an...@aol.com (Anuh1) wrote in message news:<20010729223637...@nso-fo.aol.com>...
Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh
christianity, or "white-ness" (a.k.a. the Apple) that is killing our
traditions...it's the alcoholism, child abuse, domestic violence, and teen
pregnancy. Who is teaching this to our children? Indian Parents. Not White
people
Let's not bash our European brothers too hard. It may have been their fault,
but let's be part of the solution, and not the problem. It is now OUR
responsibility to solve our own problems first. One of our Faithkeepers in
the Longhouse is a half-breed. He looks as white as a sheet. But people
respect him, and he is treated like any other citizen of the Nation. There
is nothing "Indian" or "traditional" about racism. The blood level thing was
forced upon us by Washington. Here in 6 Nations country, if your mother is
Indian, and your heart is Indian, then you're an Indian, and that's it!!!
End of discussion.
Seems to me that here on this rez, we have a lot more problems than
wannabees. I focus on getting our people sober, and respecting our children
and women. That is the Haudenosaunee way.
Anuh1 <an...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010729223637...@nso-fo.aol.com...
lenapelady
all races, aren't their authentic selves. I mean, there are family "you
should be's" ..and often church & society "you should be's"..and as
Thoreau said..."The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."
The journey of self-awareness and growing into being our own, unique,
authentic selves, and not some pastiche blended together to please
others, gives all of us strength. And the more of us there are that *are
our own authentic selves, not "stifled" (an Archie Bunkerism!), not
warped out of shape by others or repressed into only a small flicker,
the better communities we can have. The more we *know ourselves, the
more we can grow into being a better person in who we are with our own
unique characteristics.
I once knew a fellow whose father was a funeral home director. So after
college, "X" did as expected, brought his bride home, and went into the
family business. Just as Daddy expected.
Well, Daddy died years later. And "X" found himself in charge of the
business, with all these years and years of experience and the firm's
good name, etc. etc. etc.
So his future was set, right?
Suddenly, he developed this weird rash. Was really ill with the
discomfort of it, a horrible scratchy thing.
The best doctors could find NOTHING that caused it. Until finally one
very very smart doctor said "you know, let me check for something
unusual...maybe you've developed an allergy to embalming fluids or
something."
Whaddya know.
The truth of "X's" self was that he DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THAT BUSINESS.
But he had never been able to KNOW that because of Daddy's expectations.
So, when it all wound up on his shoulders, luckily for him, his body
spoke up on behalf of his true self, and made him jolly well sick with a
very plain-spoken message literally written on his skin.
With the help of that doctor and his wife, he was able to realize and
accept the truth of that message. With a great sense of relief, he sold
the business, delighted his wife by their joint decision to move back to
their college town and go into business with his father-in-law. And did
this despite all these people saying "you're taking financial
risks....oh, you can't give this up, it's an institution, you're set for
life....oh, you can't you can't..your Daddy would want you to carry
on...oh, you simply can't do this major change...you can't..you can't."
And he was healed--and became a far more relaxed and happy person than
we had ever known him to be.
LL
Kerchee
>I don't know what it's like where you guys are, but on this rez, it isn't
>christianity, or "white-ness" (a.k.a. the Apple) that is killing our
>traditions...it's the alcoholism, child abuse, domestic violence, and teen
>pregnancy. Who is teaching this to our children? Indian Parents. Not White
>people
>
>Let's not bash our European brothers too hard. It may have been their fault,
>but let's be part of the solution, and not the problem. It is now OUR
>responsibility to solve our own problems first. One of our Faithkeepers in
>the Longhouse is a half-breed. He looks as white as a sheet. But people
>respect him, and he is treated like any other citizen of the Nation. There
>is nothing "Indian" or "traditional" about racism. The blood level thing was
>forced upon us by Washington. Here in 6 Nations country, if your mother is
>Indian, and your heart is Indian, then you're an Indian, and that's it!!!
>End of discussion.
>
>Seems to me that here on this rez, we have a lot more problems than
>wannabees. I focus on getting our people sober, and respecting our children
>and women. That is the Haudenosaunee way.
Amen bro.
lenapelady
I firmly believe that you drink or do drugs because you choose to do
that; you abuse others because you choose to do that.
Until and unless someone makes the decision to make other choices,
learns how to do it, and endures the discipline to do that, they will
continue in not only their mercy, but continue to inflict it on others.
LL
Redbear55
be/are good at etc, you get stress because your body knows.
And sometimes, things happen that you don't expect. One "born again"
Indian IU know, was moving to his wife's rez. He was going to take
them "the one true religion." Well, this community is very strong in
their beliefs. And they taught him a few things.... All in all, it was
a good move because he seems so much happier when I see him.
lenapelady <lde...@mail.bartnet.net> wrote in message news:<3B6617E3...@mail.bartnet.net>...
Redbear55
away from booze and drugs. We don't work for any agency or tribe, we
are just trying to return what was given to us. We also try and talk
to the young ones about why they have diferent choices they can make.
That they do not have to do as their parents have done. It is hard.
Alcohol and drugs have a tight grip on this rez. But it is
loosening....
"Ga-ha:d? Agay:nya-d?" <nfd...@email.com> wrote in message news:<_vo97.4391$9i1.3...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>...
Annie
Maybe to some alcoholics there is no alternative? I mean, you see it as a
choice, but they don't see anything except for the bottle. It's an illness
you see. Some can fight it, some will die with it.
IMHO,
Annie.
"lenapelady" <lde...@mail.bartnet.net> wrote in message
news:3B6634B7...@mail.bartnet.net...
JRWolf
I guess it all boils down to one's will to live. And isn't that the reason
we are here...to live...or to die?
My own mother was a *severe* alcoholic for many, many years (close to 15).
She tried to choke my older brother to death one day. Sometime after that
she checked herself into a hospital and began her journey back to health.
She made it back, got her BS & MA degrees, and took up counseling as her
career. She helps those who are on the same road as she traveled and she is
very good at her job. She can't be fooled easily because she knows the
tricks and the lies, as she says.
She came back into my life when I was 18 and has been a part of my own
healing since then. I was never as far down the road as she, but she
recognized the path and spoke only of my worth and my strength. I turned
around more than 15 years ago before I had destroyed my body and my spirit.
I don't believe that it cannot be fought and beaten. I only believe that
one chooses not to fight it for whatever reason. it is not an easy journey
for most...I was fortunate.
I have a great respect for those who are strong enough to make the journey
back from that place....a very great respect.
JRWolf
"Annie" <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tmdehnj...@corp.supernews.com...
RedLakeOgitchida
~ RedLake
Annie
It is very hard indeed. And one day it looks like you won, and the next day
you are belly up again.
And another thing you see when you are at the bottom - people are cruel.
Cruel and intolerant to those who are weak.
And when it comes to one's will to live... There are many reasons why some
people don't want to live. And why they don't want to fight.
It's just too freaking hard.
And too freaking sad.
A.
"JRWolf" <JRW...@barefootxNOSPAMxcreations.com> wrote in message
news:UIA97.7936$k7.26...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
JRWolf
Many of life's struggles can be unbearably difficult sometimes. That is how
we grow stronger. The is great wisdom in: "that which does not kill us only
makes us stronger". And yes, one day you feel like you've won, and the next
day you can be belly up. But the day after that and the day after
that....those can be wins again.
Different people are cruel for different reasons. Some are cruel because
they want to be sure they have company in their misery. Others are cruel to
be sure they have people below them. Still others are cruel because, well,
they are just dark souls, and they gain strength from the suffering of
others. They are nothing more than emotional and spiritual vampires.
Ah, the will to live, or the lack thereof. When I was young, I thought "Why
would anyone *not* want to live?". At one time many years ago, when I was
near the bottom of my decline, I realized why many people do not want to
live. They have lost touch with life! They believe that life is pain, and
suffering, and loss, and maybe self-loathing. What they have forgotten is
that those are the *costs* of life! They are looking at the bill and not
the groceries! Life is love, and laughter. It is flowers and trees and
long grass. It is cricket song and bird song. It is the warmth of sun and
coolness of the evening. It is the flashes of lightening, the rolling
thunder, the flickering stars, the blackness of the night sky, the sound of
the running stream, the crash of an ocean wave. It is the nuzzle of a
loving pet, the hug of a child, the giggling of a baby. It is the pat on
the back from a parent or the squeeze of your hand by an elder. It is the
warmth of another body against yours, be it spouse, parent, grandparent, or
child.
If one can close their eyes and feel or hear or see any of these things,
then they know that life is still within them waiting to be reborn. If they
cannot, they know they have either forgotten life or they have never lived
and they cannot leave this existence until they have lived! To do so, is to
taint the greatest gift of the universe. To matter what one's spiritual
leanings, life is a precious gift that is *meant* to be experienced!
I will always remember something that Archie Fire Lame Deer spoke of in his
book "Gift of Power". He said that no one can give strong council to
someone walking a path unless he has walked that path too. And although I
don't believe it completely (for some people have the gift of true wisdom),
I believe there is an immense amount of truth there.
So, I hope you will lose you eyes and search for those memories that remind
of what a joyous gift life is, so that next time you do not feel that it is
too hard or too sad.
Respectfully,
JRWolf
"Annie" <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tmdq2b9...@corp.supernews.com...
David Wiersema
I know that you wrote this for Annie, but I really liked this. We all need to
do less lamenting over the bill and start enjoying the groceries. I love that
analogy. Thank you for your wisdom. I wish that it had not cost so much for
you to attain, but I am glad you took the opportunity to get it while you were
there, so you could share it with us.
Regards,
David Wiersema
JRWolf
occasionally that sounds intelligent!
Despite how it might read, I know that my walk thus far in life has been
"cake"compared to many. For that I am quite thankful.
JRWolf
"David Wiersema" <davidN...@ti.com.NOT> wrote in message
news:3B672089...@ti.com.NOT...
David Wiersema
box of crayons.
I have met and become friends with Wayne, almost met Randy Cox and still hope
to, and read what many here have written about their life and I will say, they
have lived through more than I ever would have imagined any one surviving. I
have never been addicted to anything, and have never lost anyone truly close to
me, so I can not understand or identify with any who have, but I can try to
learn from their experiences and the wisdom that they picked up along the way.
That is why I try to be respectful and say thank you when someone is willing to
share.
JRWolf
Respectfully,
JRWolf
"David Wiersema" <davidN...@ti.com.NOT> wrote in message
news:3B6732E4...@ti.com.NOT...
Kerchee
>Thank you, JRWolf.
>
>It is very hard indeed. And one day it looks like you won, and the next day
>you are belly up again.
>And another thing you see when you are at the bottom - people are cruel.
>Cruel and intolerant to those who are weak.
>And when it comes to one's will to live... There are many reasons why some
>people don't want to live. And why they don't want to fight.
>It's just too freaking hard.
>And too freaking sad.
>
I think that anyone can do anything they choose to do. We are all born with
that capability. Sometime though, some folks need help in being convinced they
can do it.
Don Fitch
In article <20010725114848.21495.00004060@nso-
ch.aol.com>, an...@aol.com (Anuh1) wrote:
>In article <tkk40a4...@corp.supernews.com>, "Annie"
><apal...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>I wonder if there are wannabies among the First
>>Nations Peoples. Like a MicMac who wants to be an
>>Apache, or a Cree wanting to be a Mohawk ... or say an
>>Australian aboriginal.
>
>Actually, I've found a few who could probably qualify.
>;-D But for the most part, we seem to be happy with
>who we are!
I'd say there certainly are such individuals -- as far
as I can figure out, any kind of person anyone (even
someone as Strangely Imaginative as I am) can think of
almost certainly exists, somewhere/,/ /a/n/d/ /I/'/v/e/
/e/n/c/o/u/n/t/e/r/e/d/ /a/ /w/h/o/l/e/ /b/u/n/c/h/
/o/f/ /t/h/e/m/.
I'm not sure if "wannabe" is the best word, and know
little about the First Nations People in Canada (last
time I was up there, the Hand Game (or Stick Game) was
just becoming popular in the British Columbia area), but
down here in the States there seems to be quite a bit of
cross-culture activity, especially in the Powwow Dance
context -- in the Los Angeles, California, area, for
example, quite a few Navajo (especially the younger men)
wear Lakota outfits & dance in that Northern Plains
style, and several members of East Coast tribes have
adopted the (Oklahoma) Straight Dance outfit & style.
But in many cases (as with many Whites who "Dance
Indian") there seems to be very little of the "wannabe"
in it -- they're people who are happy with who they are,
but who they are apparently involves "I'm me, of culture
X, who likes to participate in some aspects of culture
Y". I don't see anything seriously wrong with this (as
long as it's done respectfully and with serious
attention) -- partly because Indians have been doing it
for a very long time (Woodlands/Swampy Cree becoming
Plains Cree, the spread of the Native American Church,
West Coast tribes adopting the Plains style Powwow & War
Dances, &cet.) and partly because I'm of White/Northern-
European background and still delight in eating kung pao
chicken, sushi, not-too-spicy Ethiopian food, dolmas,
shish-kabob, cornbread (or frybread) and succotash,
chili, Peking duck, chopped liver-on-rye sandwiches,
spankopita, lasagna, baklava, and ... excuse me --
gotta go fix lunch Right Now.
Don Fitch,
who goes into the Dance Arena only on Honoring Songs and
Veterans' Songs (Korea, On The Line for about 8 months
c. 1951), & for Blanket Dances, and doesn't consider
himself a Wannabe -- just an old White guy who sometimes
does those things because they feel good and right, and
who thinks that many Indians have about the same attitude.
--
Annie
Although I don't have a drinking problem I had problems with depression
since I immigrated to Canada. It's been a long struggle, but I am getting
off Prozac finally.
Even though I will never be the same again there were a few good lessons I
learnt, and not being hard on 'weak' people is one of them.
Thank you,
Annie.
"JRWolf" <JRW...@barefootxNOSPAMxcreations.com> wrote in message
news:hwD97.8307$k7.27...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
Annie
"Don Fitch" <fitc...@aol.comDonFitch> wrote in message
news:20010801002009...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
> chicken, sushi, not-too-spicy Ethiopian food, dolmas,
> shish-kabob, cornbread (or frybread) and succotash,
> chili, Peking duck, chopped liver-on-rye sandwiches,
> spankopita, lasagna, baklava, and
oh, man!... will you stop that! Have mercy, I am at work with a fruit bar
and coffee for breakfast...
Anie:)
Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh
it (in other words, my bones hurt now). Smokedance was always Iroquois...for
thousands of years. It was called "War Dance" up until about 20 years ago.
Now I hear people on the rez coming back from powwows in Montana saying how
they won the Smoke dance competition their.
I don't mind if other Nations want to borrow our smokedance. It was a
"social" dance anyway. The orginal war dance was used to when the warriors
were going on a long trip...either to war, or just to hunt for food.
Now if people start borrowing corn dance...that's a different story. That's
a dance that's only done in the Longhouse.
--
Ga-ha:dėh Agay:nya-dėh
Nod-dowa'ge:on:o'
Dave
Seneca Nation
Allegany Reservation (NY)
Don Fitch <fitc...@aol.comDonFitch> wrote in message
news:20010801002009...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
RedLakeOgitchida
The biggest obstacle we have is DENIAL. The Indian community, in general, is in a state of denial about what is happening to our children. You try to tell most Indian people about the abuse and they will say..."Well, only white people do that." Bullshit. The third leading crime in Indian Country is child abuse. In 1995, the last year that we have statistics for, there were over 1,700 sexual offenses committed by Indians in Indian Country. These statistics do not include rape as rape offenses are categorized separately under violent crimes. The majority of sexual offenses were incidents of sexual abuse, i.e., child rape, committed by Indian people against Indian children.
~ RedLake
John W. Hart
Many of the Southeastern tribes, including the Choctaw, have a Green Corn
Dance. It is not called corn dance, as you have stated in your post, and
could be a different thing altogether, as far as I know in that I don't any
knowledge of the Iroquois.
John Hart
"Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh" <nfd...@email.com> wrote in message
news:1v%97.12608$9i1.1...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> SMOKEDANCE!!!! I smoked danced right up to the point where I got too old
for
> it (in other words, my bones hurt now). Smokedance was always
Iroquois...for
> thousands of years. It was called "War Dance" up until about 20 years ago.
> Now I hear people on the rez coming back from powwows in Montana saying
how
> they won the Smoke dance competition their.
>
> I don't mind if other Nations want to borrow our smokedance. It was a
> "social" dance anyway. The orginal war dance was used to when the warriors
> were going on a long trip...either to war, or just to hunt for food.
>
> Now if people start borrowing corn dance...that's a different story.
That's
> a dance that's only done in the Longhouse.
>
>
> --
> Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh
W KENSIT
Indian country. Perhaps for a good reason.
A few miles north of the Red Lake reserve in Minnesota is the village
of Hollow Water on the east shore of Lake Winnipeg. After 10 years of a
concerted battle against sexual abuse the estimate is that 80% of the
residents have been abused and that 50% of the population are abusers.
Many native communities in Canada are estimated to have 100% of their
population abused.
My niece has 2 daughters. Both the result of rape. The eldest was
abused by her father. The attitude in the native community was "Get over
it. You were raped. I was raped. We have always been raped." They no
longer reside in Indian country.
lenapelady
I don't expect to be popular for this stance, but I believe that when
someone's drinking/doing drugs/abusing others/kids, and then whines
"well, the colonizers made me do it...." I just wanna kick butt and tell
them "hey, YOU are the colonizer now, choosing to do as bad or worse
than the original problem..probably WORSE if you're doing something
awful to your own children."
Nothing makes me more furious than abuse,
emotional/physical/sexual/neglect.
LL
MIKE
>From: RedLakeOgitchida rd...@qwest.net
>Date: 8/1/2001 8:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3B689A8D...@qwest.net>
>
>
It happens, is happening now. Learned Yes. where did it come from we all know.
How to stop it thats hard to do. We are all trying but it's a long hard road.
Are we getting any help. some. By the feds very little. By our own police (
owned by the feds) very little. Will these children grow up screwed up and
commit the same crimes. prob. will. if they don't get the right help. All the
government wants to do is take your kid and give them away. will you go to them
for help. no. If the people are given the power to act to stop this stuff from
happening we can do a lot more. Till then we help with one child at a time when
we can. Help one family at a time when we can. there is a lot of us but we need
help. Any help is help so if you want to get involved move down and get dirty
you can't do it from long distance. And taking a child from all our people is
not the answer.
Mike
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>
>Just thought that I would throw something in here. You mentionedchild abuse.
>I've been an Indian foster parent for 8 years. My wife and I have been care
>providers for a number of Indian childrenduring that time. And if you
>haven't been in the trenches like Ihave, then a person hasn't a clue as to
>what is going on in Indian country- whether it is the rez or the urban
>community. The kids who havebeen in my home have been physically beaten
>and/or sexually molested and/orsuffer from behavioral problems arising from
>FAS/FAE (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome/FetalAlcohol Effects). It isn't white people
>who have abused these children- it is their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins
>who are responsible for thisdamage. Yes, historically we can trace the
>beginnings of this abuseto the boarding school and, hence, trace it as
>behavior learned from whites. But knowing the historical background doesn't
>solve the problem.
>The biggest obstacle we have is DENIAL. The Indian community,in general, is
>in a state of denial about what is happening to our children. You try to tell
>most Indian people about the abuse and they will say..."Well,only white
>people do that." Bullshit. The third leading crimein Indian Country is
>child abuse. In 1995, the last year thatwe have statistics for, there were
>over 1,700 sexual offenses committedby Indians in Indian Country. These
>statistics do not include rapeas rape offenses are categorized separately
>under violent crimes. The majority of sexual offenses were incidents of
>sexual abuse, i.e., childrape, committed by Indian people against Indian
>children.
>~ RedLake
>"Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh" wrote:<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I don't know
>what it's like where you guys are, buton this rez, it isn't
>christianity, or "white-ness" (a.k.a. the Apple) that is killing our
>traditions...it's the alcoholism, child abuse, domestic violence, andteen
>pregnancy. Who is teaching this to our children? Indian Parents. NotWhite
>people
>Let's not bash our European brothers too hard. It may have been theirfault,
>but let's be part of the solution, and not the problem. It is now OUR
>responsibility to solve our own problems first. One of our Faithkeepersin
>the Longhouse is a half-breed. He looks as white as a sheet. But people
>respect him, and he is treated like any other citizen of the Nation.There
>is nothing "Indian" or "traditional" about racism. The blood levelthing was
>forced upon us by Washington. Here in 6 Nations country, if your motheris
>Indian, and your heart is Indian, then you're an Indian, and that'sit!!!
>End of discussion.
>Seems to me that here on this rez, we have a lot more problems than
>wannabees. I focus on getting our people sober, and respecting ourchildren
>and women. That is the Haudenosaunee way.
>Anuh1 <an...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010729223637...@nso-fo.aol.com...
>> In article <e091071.01072...@posting.google.com>,
>> redb...@my-deja.com (Redbear55) writes:
>>
>> >I have to agree here, although I do know an Apache who is a wannabe
>> >Lakota. Most of the ones like him that I have met, are what I call
>> >"born again" Indians: they lived most of their lives denying whatthey
>> >are, and one day decide to stop denying. So then they go read some
>> >books and presume that Lakota beliefs (or whichever tribe) are some
>> >how are superior to their own tribe's beliefs. Or they don't have
>> >contact with their own people to learn what it is that their people
>> >actually believe.
>>
>> You will always find a few. But like you say, they spent theirwhole
>lives
>> trying to be someone else (or like one friend of mine, spent theirwhole
>lives
>> trying to convince the world they were full-blooded something
>else!)</blockquote>
>
>--------------B4811A3BDA12424AD011EC33--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jennifergiggle
W KENSIT wrote:
> I guess that sexual abuse is a statistic that is not collected in
> Indian country. Perhaps for a good reason.
> A few miles north of the Red Lake reserve in Minnesota is the village
> of Hollow Water on the east shore of Lake Winnipeg. After 10 years of a
> concerted battle against sexual abuse the estimate is that 80% of the
> residents have been abused and that 50% of the population are abusers.
> Many native communities in Canada are estimated to have 100% of their
> population abused.
> My niece has 2 daughters. Both the result of rape. The eldest was
> abused by her father. The attitude in the native community was "Get over
> it. You were raped. I was raped. We have always been raped." They no
> longer reside in Indian country.
>
Hello RedLake,
I don't think I could tell someone to get over it after two rapes (with
impregnation.)
What I could tell someone is that they could consider that a rapist is like
a mosquito in that it doesn't care who it hurts to do what it does.
We don't feel victimized by mosquito bites because we aren't to blame or
responsible for them and I wish to goodness some women could realize that a
rapist isn't a 'normal' person and doesn't have a 'normal' thought process
and that we aren't to blame for them.
Granted that the aftershock and shellshock, (yeah, I call it shellshock)
isn't going to disapear with that realization but, may be minimalized.
Jennifer
W KENSIT
sex with the first female of age they saw that day. These are carriers
of the plague of sexual abuse. Like smallpox it progresses geometrically
thru a community (one infects 5 who infect...). Its scars of anger and
self loathing are hidden and kill slowly thru alcohol, gasoline and
suicide. They were passing on what they learned from grandparents,
parents, relations, neighbours, or friends. Or all of the
aforementioned. The response of the other women indicates it is
widespread to the point that it is the way things are. I do not think
that only women are its victims.
My sister has prevailed upon my niece to file charges against the
molester of her daughter. The community sounds too disfunctional to have
a healing circle so if convicted the young man will probably go to
prison in the south. To what end? He may return to the community and
introduce the the things he learned in the prison shower to his new
victims. Like AIDs. But he will learn nothing.
How to break that circle of infection? You cannot just remove children
to a safe environment. Look at the results of residential schools and
think of the results of removing babes in arms from their parents and
sending them elsewhere if enough shelters could be found to house them.
Remember that in some communities the infection rate is 100%. If only
20% of the families are infected the question becomes which 20%. It
would be genocide. The children from one community in Labrador were
removed en masse to native drug and alcohol rehab centers in Alberta
and treated for some months. And then? Sent back home where they soon
returned to gasoline fume sniffing. And suicide.
Do you have any remedies that would work? If I was 16 years old again I
would know the answer but when I was that age nobody asked the question.
Now I am 60. I know how to build you a wonderful gas processing plant
but I don't know how to stop one young native from committing suicide
tomorrow.
Redbear55
did not tell her to "get over it." We told her it was not her fault.
That it was the man's fault because he was an adult and should know
better. We talked to her and told her that she had to decide whether
or not to let this creep ruin her life. The best revenge on him would
be to go on with her life and live it well. It was not easy. She had a
lot of anger, and we tried to deal with that. But she is now a wife
and mother. She just had her 2nd baby. She knows that the man who did
that had NO EXCUSE for what he did. Not drugs, alcohol, or "the
colonizer's made me do it." And, unlike her mom, she is a good
protector of her babies. She is not going to just "let it happen" as
her mom did. Her mom is white, and probably was molested, the molestor
is Indian, and still out there. He thinks that 11 year olds are in
their prime. It cuts across all races. Some people make excuses. My
husband and I do not.
Jennifergiggle <theg...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<3B68D675...@bigfoot.com>...
Jennifergiggle
Your post here has a lot of heartfelt questions, anguish and honestly. My
previous post and thoughts were directed to grown women and not children.
Please allow me to insert my replies as they came.
W KENSIT wrote:
> These are not young men who just got up one morning and decided to have
> sex with the first female of age they saw that day. These are carriers
> of the plague of sexual abuse. Like smallpox it progresses geometrically
> thru a community (one infects 5 who infect...). Its scars of anger and
> self loathing are hidden and kill slowly thru alcohol, gasoline and
> suicide. They were passing on what they learned from grandparents,
> parents, relations, neighbours, or friends. Or all of the
> aforementioned. The response of the other women indicates it is
> widespread to the point that it is the way things are. I do not think
> that only women are its victims.
I agree. While I worked in the health center of one (of two) orphanages we took
care of newborns-6 year olds. It is incomprehensible to me that someone could
rape/sodomize an infant, toddler and child (yes the infants and toddlers always
required surgery and were in precarious health until recovery.)
>
> My sister has prevailed upon my niece to file charges against the
> molester of her daughter.
I recommend that also, emphatically but, sometimes it only aggrevates the
offender and now not only is there a rapist out there, (when he gets out) but,
there is one with a vendetta.
> The community sounds too disfunctional to have
> a healing circle so if convicted the young man will probably go to
> prison in the south. To what end? He may return to the community and
> introduce the the things he learned in the prison shower to his new
> victims. Like AIDs. But he will learn nothing.
> How to break that circle of infection? You cannot just remove children
> to a safe environment. Look at the results of residential schools and
> think of the results of removing babes in arms from their parents and
> sending them elsewhere if enough shelters could be found to house them.
> Remember that in some communities the infection rate is 100%. If only
> 20% of the families are infected the question becomes which 20%. It
> would be genocide. The children from one community in Labrador were
> removed en masse to native drug and alcohol rehab centers in Alberta
> and treated for some months. And then? Sent back home where they soon
> returned to gasoline fume sniffing. And suicide.
Huffing-kills brains
Suicide-kill lives
Prevention of the abuse may be the only prevention of the coping and non-coping
strategies.
Some children in another orphanage I worked at (ages 6 to 14) had grown a little
and would act out by crossing the hall or sneaking over to a younger child and
molesting them. Vicious cycle.
>
> Do you have any remedies that would work?
I am a woman and my suggestions are vicious and merciless to the grown
offenders. I would (and I'm sure other women would join me-) take care of what
I needed to do if'n only we could get the good men to wrangle up these adult
grown men-gone awry and bring them to us in a secure area.
Jennifer-who's serious
Morfydd
I had the person arrested and he spent 3 years in prison. If it had been
anyone other than who it was he would not have even been afforded that
privelege. Those that defend rapists and molestors (even through apathy) are
nothing more than passive criminals themselves.
Sorry to hear about your girl Redbear, but I am happy that she is doing well
now :-)
Mop
>===== Original Message From redb...@my-deja.com (Redbear55) =====
Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh
--
Ga-ha:dëh Agay:nya-dëh
Nod-dowa'ge:on:o'
Seneca Nation
Allegany Reservation (NY)
RedLakeOgitchida <rd...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:3B689A8D...@qwest.net...
Redbear55
that time, our state was the first in the nation to pass a "Three
strikes" law: Three felonies of a certain kind, you go to jail and
never come out. I wanted to kill the &&*^^&* but the counselor said
"No. She's already traumatized. Do you want her to feel that it is her
fault you're in jail?" So we learned how to best help her through the
worst of it. She is a stong woman. No one will ever take advantage of
her.
Morfydd <Mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:<3B69...@MailAndNews.com>...
MIKE
>Date: 8/2/2001 11:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <e091071.01080...@posting.google.com>
>
I don't agree with the three strikes law. If you do it you should pay. Why wait
till the third time. The laws are screwed up you can get less time for killing
some one than battery. Anyone that harms a child should pay for the rest of
their life. They messed the child up for life. as well as the family. Nothing
ever said or done can stop the pain Know that you are not alone in feeling that
pain.
Mike
FAWNSCRIBE
name was Running Wolf, instead of his real name...added a bone choker, ate
frybread and borrowed van with a bumper falling off to get*chicks* who wouldnt
give a japanese guy the time of day but felt by appropriating what he felt was
*Indian mystique* he could get all the babes.
That is about as sorry an excuse of a man I could imagine, but what is WORSE is
that it worked more times than you can count.
And this was in the days BEFORE Shanghai Noon came out
fawn
Jennifergiggle
FAWNSCRIBE wrote:
Ha, ha,
I think he was just doing what he could do get what he could. Since it worked for
him, I think he was pretty smart.
If the babes wanted to 'buy' into indian by injection, hey, thats their own
weakness.
Um, that is, unless you are one of the babes who fell for it, in that case, I still
think he was pretty slick.
Jennifer-he, he, he, ha, ha, ha,
p.s. My Japanese language teacher who was from Okinowa-to me-looked nothing other
than a man from Nipon, Japan, the land of the rising sun. :-) Hai
Wayne George
I see this little door(hobbit size) somewhere in Okeenowa,where all Japanese
people come out of...why it's in Okeenowa,I'll never know. And out pops one
who wants to be a Wannabe....SssssssssssOKay wit me........
Hi Jennifer
By Jennifer
The Smiling Crow :-)
~~~~
Jennifergiggle <theg...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3B6AA1BC...@bigfoot.com...
Redbear55
However, I disagree that the child's life is ruined forever. Why allow
a pervert to win? And you do that by letting them ruin your whole
life. My stepdaughter is living proof that her whole life was ruined
by that sicko. She is living a good life. When this happened to her,
we assured her it was not her fault. We told her what happened to her
was a terrible thing and that she had a right to be angry. Not just
with the guy that did it, but those that doid not protect her. She was
angry. And now? She told me she rarely thinks about it. It is past. It
stays there. He has no power over her. She has the power.
And I do understand about how awful it is, and why she could not allow
him to win: I was raped at knife point at age 21. I do not allow that
pervert to win either. My klife is not ruined, and I dare anyone to
call me a victim.
put...@aol.com (MIKE) wrote in message news:<20010803000709...@ng-fl1.aol.com>...
David Vorous
> I don't agree with the three strikes law. If you do it you should pay. Why wait
> till the third time. The laws are screwed up you can get less time for killing
> some one than battery.
Can you cite any cases where that has happened?
> Anyone that harms a child should pay for the rest of
> their life. They messed the child up for life. as well as the family. Nothing
> ever said or done can stop the pain Know that you are not alone in feeling that
> pain.
I went though counseling and the most important thing the
counselor said was; "You do not have to be a victim all your
life." I thought about it and I made the CHOICE to not live in
the past and to not let what happened many years ago to run my
life today. If an individual, or a group of people, choose to
live in the wrongs of the past cannot grow emotionally, or
spiritually. I can say that, I've been there.
--
David J. Vorous
Yosemite Llama Ranch
da...@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
Clan Cian - Flecti Non Frangi
lenapelady
Although I hear you and agree with much of what you said, I still
disagree on something: just because something still hurts and affects
you doesn't mean that you are "living in the past" or being a victim.
Example: I have a shoulder that's been hurt three times, the last time
really wracked up in a horseback riding accident. Now, I can go to
therapy, which I still have to, several times a year.. I can exercise. I
can take herbs and vitamins. I can do everything that is available to me
to do, participating willingly even in painful therapy, as I had to do
for weeks and weeks and weeks; and carefully sheltering it when, once
again, as it did recently, the bone rolls partially out of the shoulder
socket. I can work hard at regaining strength and dealing with episodes
when it acts up. I can accept and work with the fact that a new problem,
in this case the RA, will afflict the old injury in new ways.
Even with all that, the results of that injury are still with me.
Even though I am still feeling episodes of pain from the injury, even
though some things, even unexpected things, can sometimes trigger the
pain, and even though I am still affected in what I can and can't do
sometimes, I am not living in the past nor am I a victim.
It's the same way with psychic/emotional/psychological injuries, too.
LL
FAWNSCRIBE
Um, that is, unless you are one of the babes who fell for it, in that case, I
still
think he was pretty slick.
Jennifer-he, he, he, ha, ha, ha,
p.s. My Japanese language teacher who was from Okinowa-to me-looked nothing
other
than a man from Nipon, Japan, the land of the rising sun. :-) Hai
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
He may have thought he was slick but it is sad beyond belief he thought he had
to be a real sexy MAN by pretending he was someone he wasn't.After all Jackie
Chan no doubt gets chicks:)
Fawn
MIKE
>From: redb...@my-deja.com (Redbear55)
>Message-id: <e091071.01080...@posting.google.com>
>
My sister was raped and blinded when she was ten. They never found the man
responsible. She killed her self when she was fifteen. I was nine at the time.
The pain altho duller with time is still there.
Mike
MIKE
>
John Casey 20 years for 1st degree murder.
Sgt Lucas charged aggravated battery faces up to 60 years starke fl.
Willie Crain convicted of 6 felony rapes. 1st one he cut the arms off the girl.
Last one he raped, killed, cut up a 7 year old girl put her in a crab trap.
He's appling his sentince now may be out in two to six.
Mike
lenapelady
I'm so sorry for your family's tragedy.
LL
Redbear55
stepdaughter. Someone made the mistake of calling me a "rape victim."
I told them I was not a victim. Then they called me a "rape survivor."
I said I was not a rape ANYTHING. I am a person who was raped and
chose to move on with my life. Using rape as an adjetive is not
something I like. I was avictim when it happened, true. But not now.
Not ever again.
David Vorous <da...@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
JRWolf
Sorry I took so long to reply...I have been "up to my ass in alligators"
(and trolls). LOL!
I just wanted to say thank you for the feedback on my words. And keep
something very important in mind the next time you say "I will never be the
same again": that is a good thing. If we cease growing and changing we
become as BroJack has: mean, spiteful, disillusioned, and trying to kick the
world down everyday.
I hope that you can always look back over your life and say "I will never be
the same again!"
And it is good that you learned not be hard on weak people, but do not carry
that thought to the other extreme. One reason some of those people are so
weak is that they did not have someone being hard on them earlier in their
lives (or they may have had someone being *too* hard on them). Be strong,
be firm, be resolute. But be kind, compassionate, and a friend.
I wish you well,
JRWolf
"Annie" <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tmg28o1...@corp.supernews.com...
> You made me cry sweet tears, JRWolf.
>
> Although I don't have a drinking problem I had problems with depression
> since I immigrated to Canada. It's been a long struggle, but I am getting
> off Prozac finally.
> Even though I will never be the same again there were a few good lessons I
> learnt, and not being hard on 'weak' people is one of them.
>
> Thank you,
> Annie.
> "JRWolf" <JRW...@barefootxNOSPAMxcreations.com> wrote in message
> news:hwD97.8307$k7.27...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
> > Dear Annie
> >
> > Many of life's struggles can be unbearably difficult sometimes. That is
> how
> > we grow stronger. The is great wisdom in: "that which does not kill us
> only
> > makes us stronger". And yes, one day you feel like you've won, and the
> next
> > day you can be belly up. But the day after that and the day after
> > that....those can be wins again.
> >
> > Different people are cruel for different reasons. Some are cruel
because
> > they want to be sure they have company in their misery. Others are
cruel
> to
> > be sure they have people below them. Still others are cruel because,
> well,
> > they are just dark souls, and they gain strength from the suffering of
> > others. They are nothing more than emotional and spiritual vampires.
> >
> > Ah, the will to live, or the lack thereof. When I was young, I thought
> "Why
> > would anyone *not* want to live?". At one time many years ago, when I
was
> > near the bottom of my decline, I realized why many people do not want to
> > live. They have lost touch with life! They believe that life is pain,
> and
> > suffering, and loss, and maybe self-loathing. What they have forgotten
is
> > that those are the *costs* of life! They are looking at the bill and
not
> > the groceries! Life is love, and laughter. It is flowers and trees and
> > long grass. It is cricket song and bird song. It is the warmth of sun
> and
> > coolness of the evening. It is the flashes of lightening, the rolling
> > thunder, the flickering stars, the blackness of the night sky, the sound
> of
> > the running stream, the crash of an ocean wave. It is the nuzzle of a
> > loving pet, the hug of a child, the giggling of a baby. It is the pat
on
> > the back from a parent or the squeeze of your hand by an elder. It is
the
> > warmth of another body against yours, be it spouse, parent, grandparent,
> or
> > child.
> >
> > If one can close their eyes and feel or hear or see any of these things,
> > then they know that life is still within them waiting to be reborn. If
> they
> > cannot, they know they have either forgotten life or they have never
lived
> > and they cannot leave this existence until they have lived! To do so,
is
> to
> > taint the greatest gift of the universe. To matter what one's spiritual
> > leanings, life is a precious gift that is *meant* to be experienced!
> >
> > I will always remember something that Archie Fire Lame Deer spoke of in
> his
> > book "Gift of Power". He said that no one can give strong council to
> > someone walking a path unless he has walked that path too. And although
I
> > don't believe it completely (for some people have the gift of true
> wisdom),
> > I believe there is an immense amount of truth there.
> >
> > So, I hope you will lose you eyes and search for those memories that
> remind
> > of what a joyous gift life is, so that next time you do not feel that it
> is
> > too hard or too sad.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > JRWolf
> >
> >
> >
> > "Annie" <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:tmdq2b9...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Thank you, JRWolf.
> > >
> > > It is very hard indeed. And one day it looks like you won, and the
next
> > day
> > > you are belly up again.
> > > And another thing you see when you are at the bottom - people are
cruel.
> > > Cruel and intolerant to those who are weak.
> > > And when it comes to one's will to live... There are many reasons why
> some
> > > people don't want to live. And why they don't want to fight.
> > > It's just too freaking hard.
> > > And too freaking sad.
> > >
> > > A.
> > > "JRWolf" <JRW...@barefootxNOSPAMxcreations.com> wrote in message
> > > news:UIA97.7936$k7.26...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
> > > > Annie,
> > > >
> > > > I guess it all boils down to one's will to live. And isn't that the
> > > reason
> > > > we are here...to live...or to die?
> > > >
> > > > My own mother was a *severe* alcoholic for many, many years (close
to
> > 15).
> > > > She tried to choke my older brother to death one day. Sometime
after
> > that
> > > > she checked herself into a hospital and began her journey back to
> > health.
> > > > She made it back, got her BS & MA degrees, and took up counseling as
> her
> > > > career. She helps those who are on the same road as she traveled
and
> > she
> > > is
> > > > very good at her job. She can't be fooled easily because she knows
> the
> > > > tricks and the lies, as she says.
> > > >
> > > > She came back into my life when I was 18 and has been a part of my
own
> > > > healing since then. I was never as far down the road as she, but
she
> > > > recognized the path and spoke only of my worth and my strength. I
> > turned
> > > > around more than 15 years ago before I had destroyed my body and my
> > > spirit.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe that it cannot be fought and beaten. I only believe
> > that
> > > > one chooses not to fight it for whatever reason. it is not an easy
> > > journey
> > > > for most...I was fortunate.
> > > >
> > > > I have a great respect for those who are strong enough to make the
> > journey
> > > > back from that place....a very great respect.
> > > >
> > > > JRWolf
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Annie" <apal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:tmdehnj...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > > LL,
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe to some alcoholics there is no alternative? I mean, you see
it
> > as
> > > a
> > > > > choice, but they don't see anything except for the bottle. It's an
> > > illness
> > > > > you see. Some can fight it, some will die with it.
> > > > > IMHO,
> > > > > Annie.
> > > > > "lenapelady" <lde...@mail.bartnet.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3B6634B7...@mail.bartnet.net...
> > > > > > Me, too. Bravo Dave.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I firmly believe that you drink or do drugs because you choose
to
> do
> > > > > > that; you abuse others because you choose to do that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Until and unless someone makes the decision to make other
choices,
> > > > > > learns how to do it, and endures the discipline to do that, they
> > will
> > > > > > continue in not only their mercy, but continue to inflict it on
> > > others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kerchee wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In article
<_vo97.4391$9i1.3...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>,
> > > > > > > Amen bro.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rick
> > > > > > > ********************************************
> > > > > > > "Before I judge a man, I walk a mile in his mocassins. Then if
I
> > > don't
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > him, I am a mile away, and I got his mocassins."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
JRWolf
I am sorry for the loss of your sister. I have to ask you: is the pain you
still feel due to the loss of your sister or the fact she was raped and
blinded? If she lived today and was happy and healthy, would you still have
that same pain?
Just a thought,
JRWolf
"MIKE" <put...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010803221037...@ng-cu1.aol.com...
JRWolf
Your comment reminded me of a roommate, Tom, I had after college. We would
go to the bars on the weekend and he used to think he was so funny when he
would stop a girl and say to her "Do you have a little Indian in you?".
When she would reply "No", he would point at me and say "Would like to?".
I think he always got the reaction he wanted: severe blushing from me and
either blushing or anger from the ladies.
JRWolf
"Jennifergiggle" <theg...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3B6AA1BC...@bigfoot.com...
>
>
Ellen Mill
My granddaughter was 4 when it happened to her; the guy was sentenced to
three years, and this was NOT his first offence. He's out now, my sweet
baby girl is 12 and will always carry those scars. My prayers are for all
the daughters and sisters and nieces (and sons and nephews and
brothers) who have been made victims. This stuff runs across all social
and ethnic barriers. it's my opinion (but only that, my opinion), that
the victims need, need, need all the healing and help our communities can
give them, so they don't either allow their own children to fall victim,
or become molesters themselves.
Redbear, you can be very, very proud of your daughter; she sounds like a
remarkable young woman.
Ellen
In article
<e091071.01080...@posting.google.com>,
Ellen Mill
Mike;
My heart goes to you; this must be so hard to bear. I know words on a
screen aren't much, but I'll hold you in my thoughts.
Ellen
In article
<20010803221037...@ng-cu1.aol.com>,
Ellen Mill
Standing ovation! To you both; bravo for not letting a bad thing define
you.
Ellen
In article <e091071.01080...@posting.google.com>,
Redbear55 <redb...@my-deja.com> wrote:
MIKE
>Date: 8/4/2001 12:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <HsKa7.28545$k7.62...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>
>
I guess the pain is all of it. If she hadn't been raped and hurt like that she
wouldn't have killed her self. In my family we had eight boys and three girls
if one of us hurt we all did we were that close growing up. Not many of us left
now, but we talk and get together all the time. If she was still alive today
the pain wouldn't be as bad, but it would still be there.
Mike
Morfydd
>that time, our state was the first in the nation to pass a "Three
>strikes" law: Three felonies of a certain kind, you go to jail and
>never come out. I wanted to kill the &&*^^&* but the counselor said
>"No. She's already traumatized. Do you want her to feel that it is her
>fault you're in jail?" So we learned how to best help her through the
>worst of it. She is a stong woman. No one will ever take advantage of
>her.
Yes, it is a hard thing to have to deal with. I did pretty much the same
thing
with my girl and I only hope that she will continue to thrive as she is now.
These people that do these things! Urgh! I cannot begin to describe the
anger
I feel towards them. They revolt me and even had they been abused themselves
I
cannot allow them quarter for inflicting pain and misery on people,
especially
when they know and feel the results of that pain themselves.
Mop
Jennifergiggle
FAWNSCRIBE wrote:
Hi Fawn,
I can't imagine but, guess I would've wanted to somehow stick a 'kick me I'm
phoney' sign on the back of his truck.
Malipulating and deceptive people are indeed unbearable to watch in action. In
hindsight the only way my previous post could be completely true would be with a
grain of salt.
Jennifer
p.s. ya gotta give him credit for 'scoring' since that was his ultimate goal, the
foolish women who fell for it were looking for a fantasy anyhow and that is all he
gave them.
Morfydd
really matter when you are attracted to someone? I have met my fair share of
men and by and large I would say that the person that they are will seep
into
their looks. If they are not nice people then no mater how physically
attractive they may be there will always be an ugliness about them that you
will see.
just my two pennies worth,
Mop
>===== Original Message From theg...@bigfoot.com =====
tclock
news:e091071.01080...@posting.google.com...
> When my stepdaughter was 11, a freakin' no good sob molested her.
Good description. People who get their jollies out of abusing others in some
way deserve to be socially shunned (w/ the ultimate "shun" being a healthy
visit to the Big House).
> We did not tell her to "get over it." We told her it was not her fault.
It's the fault of the s.o.b, period.
> That it was the man's fault because he was an adult and should know
> better.
Perhaps he did "know better". He just didn't feel that that "better" was
better than
f-gratification.....:o(
>We talked to her and told her that she had to decide whether
> or not to let this creep ruin her life. The best revenge on him would
> be to go on with her life and live it well.
Yesyesyesyes
> It was not easy.
No, it isn't........:o((((((((((((
> She had a lot of anger, and we tried to deal with that.
Was the pig-let even caught?
If so, perhaps a healthy civil suit would have poured som cold water over his noggin.
> But she is now a wife and mother. She just had her 2nd baby.
'tis wondersful...)))))))))
> She knows that the man who did that had NO EXCUSE for what he did.
None, zero, nada.
.....though I'm sure that, in this day and age where playing the " 'They' made me do it" Card is so de rigeuer he or his legal lapdogs tried to paint that picture.
> Not drugs, alcohol,
The usual "poor li'l me" excuses.
> or "the colonizer's made me do it."
.....oy.......:o(((((((((
> And, unlike her mom, she is a good protector of her babies. She is not going to just "let it happen" as
> her mom did. Her mom is white, and probably was molested, the molestor
> is Indian, and still out there.
....wonder if the pig trued to justify his actions with "....the colonizers deserve it..."....:o(
> He thinks that 11 year olds are in their prime. It cuts
> across all races. Some people make excuses.
M
y husband and I do not.
tclock
news:9kfrq2$m...@garcia.efn.org...
>
> My granddaughter was 4 when it happened to her; the guy was sentenced to
> three years, and this was NOT his first offence. He's out now, my sweet
> baby girl is 12 and will always carry those scars. My prayers are for all
> the daughters and sisters and nieces (and sons and nephews and
> brothers) who have been made victims. This stuff runs across all social
> and ethnic barriers. it's my opinion (but only that, my opinion), that
> the victims need, need, need all the healing and help our communities can
> give them, so they don't either allow their own children to fall victim,
> or become molesters themselves.
> Redbear, you can be very, very proud of your daughter; she sounds like a
> remarkable young woman.
>
Nancy Rhodes
down. After being contacted by my former husband after 13 years, he was
amazed I wasn't still mad at him. Why should I hurt myself by remaining mad?
Yes, what he did was bad, but it was in the past. One good point was that he
admitted I was right to leave. He acknowledged he was not good with infants
(reason I left.) He and his new wife choose to not have any children
together because he really learned the lesson.
My son grew up in a much better environment. Why muck it up with old hurt
feelings? The best revenge for bad experiences is to let them go and have a
good life.
Nancy
"David Vorous" <da...@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
news:3B6AF529...@thellamaranch.com...
Redbear55
early. I am hoping he is in jail somewhere so he can not hurt others.
His excuse was that 11 year old girls were in their "prime." Or, if
not in jail, maybe someone will have beat the stuffing out of him.
"tclock" <tim...@pfg.batnet.com> wrote in message news:<EIUa7.94$8v.21...@news.inreach.com>...
Redbear55
thing. But I hope she does not allow herself to be a victim. Victims
can be victimized again. Strong women cannot easily be victimized. I
hope that your granddaughter grows into a strong woman.
o...@efn.org (Ellen Mill) wrote in message news:<9kfrq2$m...@garcia.efn.org>...
Redbear55
This is so awful. No, the pain does not go away. My favorite sister in
law was raped and murdered. I know the pain only dulls. My prayers are
with your family.
Last year, 10&1/2 years after Tina's murder, we had a healing
ceremony. That has helped some.
put...@aol.com (MIKE) wrote in message news:<20010803221037...@ng-cu1.aol.com>...
MIKE
>From: redb...@my-deja.com (Redbear55)
>Message-id: <e091071.01080...@posting.google.com>
>
Thank you all, and mine go for yours.
We had a healing way also, and it did help some. There is a word we have I'm
not sure of the spelling it's yo'zho' it means a combination of harmony and
beauty a way of peace with the world being in tune with life all together in
one word. yo'zho' my friends.
Mike