Monica. Words from the Brown Idiot

[Ben_Carnes]

Communicating through the internet really sucks. First, you don't get
to hear the inflection of a persons voice. Second, you don't see the
person face. and Third, we are still strangers to each other.

I am Kitty's husband, the one you called a brown idiot. You know
whether I agreed with you or not, I personally supported your stand on
principle for Johnm Boys Graham and Arlo. My true opinion on the
entire case of Annie Mae, is the M-----F---ing feds were behind it. I
don't excuse the person who pulled the trigger, but until the feds are
on trial for Annie Mae's murder, every so called evidence is suspect to
me. We may never know the truth.

But on the other hand the one truth that I do know, which I know that
you don't know is that I fell in love with a woman who happens to be
white and does know who all her blood ancestry is, and is pretty damn
proud of who she is. She has never claimed to be Indian. I spoke with
a Mohawk woman once who told me that what business is it of anyone
else's if you fall in love. The color of a person skin shouldn't
matter. That came out of a discussion because another Mohawk woman
made a comment, "What is a man of his stature doing marrying a woman
like that". That comment came from a mother of another Sundancer, but
I am accustomed to racism from our own people, even when it sounds like
Aryan Nation rhetoric or bullshit. Am I weak because the Creator or
God allows me to love one of his children? Are you saying the Creator
is wrong for allowing me to love someone and their daughter who
respects our way of life? Come on Monica, I didn't wake up one morning
and decide I'm weak, I guess I'll go and find me a white woman.

You have no idea of what my life has been like, who I have been with,
nor have you lived the experiences I have lived. Yet, because I am
with a white woman, I am a brown idiot. I can trult say that I am
disappointed at what I consider a verbal affront through a public ng. I
personally expected better of you. I know that you sometimes feel that
you have to feel that you have to defend yourself from attacks, but I
saw this as totally unnecessary. My wife was not attacking you, she
only made a humourous remark to lighten the situation, and somehow I
became a brown idiot.

When I met my wife, Kitty, I had pretty much gave up on any meaningful
relationship with women. I felt that my life was to be one of
solitude, and working for the people. If it meant that I may end up
dying and never having children to carry on for me, then that is what I
would do to honor the path the Creator had set for me. Instead, we met
and began a relationship. And Monica it hasn't been easy for her,
because she is white. But as I said, she knows who she is. Look at it
this way, say that if all you knew was that you were Indian, but didn't
know what Nation you belonged to. Does that make you any less Native?

I am of the Choctaw Nation. I traveled to Mississippi to the reserve
there, and one of the Choctaw women asked me in our language if she was
white. I said no, she is sicilian and Irish. I got an approving "Oh!"
instead of a disapproving "Oh." To me that just illustrates the
stupidity of judging a person by the color of their skin. I believe
that we need to look what is in their hearts than the color of their
skin.

In the practice of our spirituality, I have heard through the Lakota
people that if you aren't of their blood, there are some ceremonies
that non-Lakotas won't be able to perform. So does that mean the
Creator is a racist? Is that also to imply that the white people are a
mistake of the Creator?

When my wife first met me, she did not know that I was a ceremonial
leader, mainly because I didn't tell her. I wanted to be known just
for who I am, not because of my "stature" or as an activist/warrior, or
whatever people perceived me as. I am just Ben, but I am stuck with
being a Chief. And I respect that honor so much that I have paid for it
through enduring the jealousies and enviousness of others. But the
people whom I have met and worked with and helped have respected me.
As a Chief, there is responsibilities that has fallen upon my wife, and
she is terrified of failing and disappointing me and other Elders and
leaders. But she is learning. And she is asking other Native women for
help so that she can fulfill her responsibilities. She doesn't relish
being the Chiefs wife. She would rather be Bens' wife and not have to
deal with the rest.

She is not an Annette Claypoole, but it seems your presumption placed
her in that category, and I feel that is quite unfair. No one has known
her to be a groupie of any kind and I have been the first Native man
she has had a relationship with.

I had really hoped that there would have been more intelligent
discussion on this ng than what I have seen. I can totally ignore the
immature and childish cooments I have seen here, and I sometimes wonder
why I waste any time. I really wanted to see a place where discussions
could be held. And opposiong viewpoints could be discussed to show each
other something we are over looking.

Frosty has been one of the few who can stay on point and elaborate on
any topic, without falling into bs. I have utmost respect for his
presence on this ng. Which is the reason, I have began a new topic
since it was not germane to his original topic.

I wonder if all the people on this group were to sit and appear before
each other, with Elders present, minus barry and dirt clod, etc., if
each of those people would behave in the same way they do on this
group. I actually doubt it. Anonymity behaind a keyboard gives some
people the courage to speak in a way they wouldn't to a person face. It
is a cowardly antic like writing on an elementary bathroom wall.

So maybe Monica you would like to give me a call so that we can talk
abnout what happened here? I would be more than happy to talk with you
over the phone. Just email me and make arrangments to talk with us. I
do believe we will come to a better understanding at least through
verbal communication. I've been in touch with one of Arlo's cousin. A
Lakota who calls me brother and my wife sister, about the information
you have shared about Arlo's situation.

It is a small world after all, and we should all be acreful about the
hurtful things we say to one another, regardless of the circumstances.

In Unity,
Ben Carnes

[Monica]

Yeah I'll talk with you. I wish you were coming to Steve's memorial
then we could talk face to face. I feel strongly about the damage that
white women have done in our communities. I am sorry you are one that
let them in. I am sorry that white women have infiltrated Leonard's
committee and chased off the people that actually wanted to work to get
him out. I quit attending the sundances at Leonard's way back in the
beginning when John Fire Lame Deer brought in his second wife, a white
hippie girl. Security caught her taking pictures from his tipi. Cameras
were taken from everyone else. I wouldn't be happy attending ceremonies
where the head woman was white. But that is your choice. I think it is
a weakness. It is a sell out of the people. I stopped Lisa's attack on
another Indian. She is a white woman that thinks she has the right to
criticize and attack us because she is sleeping with a brown idiot.
Those kind of women always over step their bounds. You and Joe want to
force them down our throats. I don't have to put up with them and I
won't. Silence about what is wrong in our communities always
perpetuates it. It isn't right because you call yourself a chief. In my
opinion that makes it even more wrong. I am one of the few that uses my
own name on the internet. I take responsibility for what I say and do.
I don't hide behind a monitor and a pseudonym. You can send your phone
number to this address. I am attending a workshop all day today. I can
get back to you tomorrow.

Monica

[Rick]

Monica wrote:

There is a Sadness in this...

[cobra...@yahoo.com]

Chillman reporting live here on alt.native.

Ben has a white wife. Ben says she is a good woman, but Monica,
on the other hand, in my opinion of course, thinks that Ben would
have been better off as a gay man.

Ben is upset b/c communicating through the internet doesn't allow
him to see other people's faces, and therefore Ben probably thinks
everybody here is a liar?

Well anyway, so what! Feel free to pass right on through this portion
of the thread to find out why Ben enjoys his pal Frosty so much!
...Is it b/c: anger sins against its own soul, but happy postings sound
like the wax in your ears is old?

Now Monica doesn't appear to care about Ben's concerns of not being
able to see people's faces b/c she, Monica uses her very own name
to post here on the internet. Monica probably realizes that nobody
knows who she is anyway, so using her own name is probably okay...

As for myself, I finally realized that nobody cares what I myself
thinks
(cobrachill), so I've decided to become a reporter so as to report on
what everybody else thinks.

Screw it, why should I be grieved that nobody cares about what I have
to
say, b/c obviously what they have to say has no famine about it.

So reporting live without a face is cobrachill---whose own words came
to
absolutely nothing, therefore now reporting the words of others.

.........................................................................................................
.........................................................................................................

[opine]

The it begs the question, do you believe
Smashed Eyes acted alone or was he sent to do what he did?

Ben_Carnes wrote:

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Monica]

Cobra, usually you are a little too Christian for me, but every once in
a while you do have a chilling clarity in all this madness. What do you
think about wannabe white women like Lisa who think they have a right
to criticize us and impose their view of what Indian life is like or
should be? What is Joe West about? What is happening in the Anna Mae
case?

[Monica]

"I spoke with
> a Mohawk woman once who told me that what business is it of anyone
> else's if you fall in love. The color of a person skin shouldn't
> matter. That came out of a discussion because another Mohawk woman
> made a comment, "What is a man of his stature doing marrying a woman
> like that". That comment came from a mother of another Sundancer, but
> I am accustomed to racism from our own people, even when it sounds like
> Aryan Nation rhetoric or bullshit.

Alice Papineau came out here to visit in the late 80's or early 90's.
She told us that the Clan Mothers decided they had to do something
about the problem of intermarriage. She said they set a date and said
all white people had to leave the reservations on that day. If the
Indian spouse decided to stay with them they had to leave too. She said
it was real hard. Some Tribal members left with their mate. Some
marriages were broken up. It is a problem and we can deal with it or
ignore it. In the end, Kitty is your business and none of
mine.....unless she starts acting like Lisa.

[blut...@gmail.com]

Monica, it's a good thing you are finally showing your true colours
Racists are purging themselves all over the place these day's I am
reminded your a lier. And blinded by hate that is sick and likes to
revel in sickness. We were at a Healing of the Future conference where
we met plenty of Elders from around the Country. Our goals are to end
blinding fear and ignorance that feeds the cycles of dysfunction. You
slander me and my family and every elder that taught us and continue to
teach to end your kind of blind hatred. It's am infection on humanity
and keeps people thinking stinking! You may be comfortable in your
wallowing, I pray someone someday pulls your reaching hands out of the
ugly. You need some prayers that is what my family say's so I pass that
on to you.
lisa
lisa

[Monica]

Keep your prayers for yourself Lisa. I don't want or need them. I'll
give Misty a call and tell her to get in touch with you.

[blut...@gmail.com]

Thank you please do, we have plenty catching up to do. I know her and
she would never talk bad on my family. As specially under the bad
jacketing you are hell bent on. You talk wacky and expect people to
turn their back on those they know and love. Soon enough I will be
making my way back home and face to face do damage control and have big
hugs long over due. You have called so many people bad mouthing me and
my family it is disgusting. It was my husbands advise that I pray for
you dear. Oh, by the way, it was my husband who rescued my daughter off
the streets strung out on heroin. We did not abandon our daughter
because she was a stupid 12 and 1/2 year old. It was my husband that
said if we find our daughter lets move here to Molokai. It was Janet
that sent us here. It was Molokai that helped my daughter find her
"Pono" It was Misty bringing my daughter in to the smokehouse that gave
her spirit the will and strength to recover. Misty has family here but
you would know that now wouldn't you. My daughter is healthy and whole
married with two children designing organic clothing. Shes moving back
to Seattle soon so she will be getting a hold of Misty personally.
BUT FOR OUR RELATIONS! MY DAUGHTER WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN SHE COULD OVER
COME. YOU ARE THE KIND THAT WOULD HAVE SAID LET THE GIRL GO! SHE'S A
FILTHY HEROIN JUNKY. IT IS THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT HAS KILLED
GENERATIONS OF OUR KIDS FROM THE REZ AND BEYOND. THRIVING WILL HAPPEN
WHEN HEALING IS ALLOWED. GET OVER YOUR SELF AND YOUR HATE SPEW.

Isnt there a law against false statements like you are making here at
Alt Native and else where Monica? get a grip woman. You really insult
some very good people posting here at Alt Native and cannot even see
it...
lisa

[cobra...@yahoo.com]

Monica wrote:
> Cobra, usually you are a little too Christian for me, but every once in
> a while you do have a chilling clarity in all this madness. What do you
> think about wannabe white women like Lisa who think they have a right
> to criticize us and impose their view of what Indian life is like or
> should be? What is Joe West about? What is happening in the Anna Mae
> case?

Monica, you asked me my opinion bout people that criticize. The
question
inspired the following writing:

The sun rises in the morning, not a cloud in the sky, I wonder what
right
I have to enjoy this day? As I search my heart I see that it is clean,
therefore I feel I have the right to enjoy this beautiful day.

Whose "cause" can build a wall; who had the strength to build that
wall?
Anybody can criticize, and people that do usually reign for a couple of
years and then die out because they are living in their fatness.

..As far as Joe West---I currently know nothing about it. I could spend
some time there to have a vision bout it if you wish, let me know?

The Anna Mae case: I will offer my spirit's answer: A few things be
happening, depends of course upon who loves who, who hates who,
etc... Some people are feasting upon this case and it ain't because
they have good morals.

I have a hard time here b/c I feel that the F.B.I. should also be
brought
up on charges for Anna Mae's death as well. Yet they dwell in their
high
places (hang on, I just had a vision of another earth quake: I'm
getting
earth mourn's in my vision).

I also realize that we are living in today's times, not ancient times,
and
times are always changing. We no longer live only among our own
people, we live among many strangers with many different skin colors,
and many strangers sit upon many different thrones, and the only way
to cut these strangers outta our lives is to have our own strength that
we can rely upon to survive this life. We will never be able to get rid

of all our enemies, yet we will only endure them if we have the
strength
to survive. The strength includes our perfect hatred of them, yet it
should also include us realizing that each of us have to support our
own
household and raise our own children. Remember, to hate people takes
a lot of energy, so perhaps it's best to choose maybe just 50 or so
people
to hate, and spend more time just making fun of the rest of them?

Back to the Anna Mae case. My Spirit once told me something about the
F.B.I., my Spirit says that the F.B.I. are like a bunch of 5 month
old's that
will reign for 3 years or so.

Well, that's all I have time to say for now. Bye!

.............................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................

[opine]

That is sounding pretty accurate and would
have to agree with it as a timeline.
The guilty will be SQUIRMING in the meantime.

cobra...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Back to the Anna Mae case. My Spirit once told me something about the
> F.B.I., my Spirit says that the F.B.I. are like a bunch of 5 month
> old's that
> will reign for 3 years or so.

[opine]

That is saying until we hear the sound of the gavel falling.
Sometime 2009 would be when for whom the bell tolls.
Then we can can all relax a short bit and go fishing.

[Monica]

Thanks Cobra. You took me down real good. That's why I asked. It won't
be justice if the FBI isn't held accountable.

[Monica]

Lisa you are not Indian. Sleeping with a brown idiot does not give you
rights to attack real Indians or impose your fantasies on us. You can
support us, but you need to realize that does not mean you are Indian.

[oldwifetale]

opine wrote:
> That is sounding pretty accurate and would
> have to agree with it as a timeline.
> The guilty will be SQUIRMING in the meantime.

That may be so, but i can't believe that anyone is giving a 'white guy'
who masturbates half the time he is posting to any woman or man on
alt.native *credibility* while at the same time being 'offended' by
Kitty's remark which was very mild in comparison to the things
Cobrachill has said here. He is an ass, and has never been anything but
sexually crude and disrespectful toward women, even if he is referring
to someone's else's WIFE.

i am amazed.
as usual.

[Frosty]

Ben_Carnes wrote:
> Frosty has been one of the few who can stay on point and elaborate on
> any topic, without falling into bs. I have utmost respect for his
> presence on this ng. Which is the reason, I have began a new topic
> since it was not germane to his original topic.

Wow that is interesting. I am not sure how years I have been posting,
cross posting and writing my opinions. At one time I also did a weekly
"Did you know?" It was information I got from a book that showed the
Indian Act from the begining and the changes made to it. I gave
someone the book and they never returned it. I have tried to find the
book with no luck. I got the book someplace in traveling around.
It was paper back book and it was interesting.

Nia:wen kowa

[The Smiling Crow]

Hope the 'finds' you again....
I find that most of the time I have posted here..many so called Wannabes and
Those Relatives of Ours who live in The United States of America ...do not
really care about "The Indian Act"...up here in this stolen land calling
itself Canada.
There are a few 'folks' around this NG who can stick to topic...but I find
it hard to do..with so many individual *opinions* floating around any given
topic...someone will always slide off the topic because of "personality
issues".
Personality Issues..are here...because *we use*.the "English Language" for
communication...nd dats where we get into conflicts with different
personalities...but *we* are too proud to ever admit to something as simple
as saying.."Hey,I wrong..I apologize"

Wayne Turtleback George
==================
"Frosty" <fro...@ipermitmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155914465....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[Kitty]

Opine,

That is a question alot of people have asked. there are some strange
circumstances that didn't add up . And there are some people who need
to be found and talked to.

I spoke with Standing Deer not long before the murder happened and he
told me some pretty scary stuff which i wont go into here. However
there are those suspicions.

the most accurate report on the murder as the article that Ben posted
way back on this ng. Alot of others are incorrect.

K

[opine]

Found the posting of the timeline even more incredible and made a comment.

Wasn't offended by Kitty's remark myself.
Next thing you know, you will get a lecture about not telling Indians
what to do.

Never a dull moment lately.
It's the strangest dance of words have ever seen.

[opine]

The question was asked of Ben.
If he isn't comfortable answering,
maybe he could post his article/report again as a reply.

What do you believe?
Was Smashed Eyes sent or did he act alone?

[oldwifetale]

opine wrote:
> Found the posting of the timeline even more incredible and made a comment.
>
> Wasn't offended by Kitty's remark myself.
> Next thing you know, you will get a lecture about not telling Indians
> what to do.
>
> Never a dull moment lately.
> It's the strangest dance of words have ever seen.

Me too, actually. :)

[Monica]

I guess it's different living on a small rez than a big city like
Denver. I find Lisa extremelyh offensive. I found kitty's statement
offensive. But keep kissing white butts Joe. I'm sure it will buy your
way into heaven.

[oldwifetale]

Monica wrote:
> I guess it's different living on a small rez than a big city like
> Denver. I find Lisa extremelyh offensive. I found kitty's statement
> offensive. But keep kissing white butts Joe. I'm sure it will buy your
> way into heaven.

I just want to know, Monica... since i have held great respect for your
opinions in the past... when did i stop being just another human and
start being a "white butt"? Because it seems that so long as a white
woman agrees with you, it is okay, but if a white woman disagrees, she
loses her humanity in your eyes. This makes me feel disappointed...
because i do not share the same sentiment toward you. I'm not
commenting on intermarriage... because maybe that is more a 'cultural'
problem than a 'racist' one, and besides, it is none of my business.
But in the battle against 'racism'... i think it is just as appropriate
to argue for the side that is against racism in ALL its forms as it is
to fight against racism toward people of color. To have to defend
'love' is one thing, but to have to defend the color of your skin is
another. Even if your skin is white. I have to confess... i feel
'dehumanized' when you speak of me as a "white butt" rather than a
woman - just another human being - who has only exchanged friendly
words with you. If it is not so... then it seems i am expected to kiss
*your* but just because you are a native woman... which also seems like
a 'racist' thing to do, imo, because when it comes right down to it, i
don't give a shit what color your skinsuit is, i only care where your
heart is at. That is all i care when it comes to *any* person i am
willing to call a friend. Disagree with me by all means! I would take
no offense. But to 'invalidate' me because i am 'white'... i do not
understand. And please believe me, i am writing this with utmost
respect, regardless of my white butt.

Donna

[Monica]

When did I call you a white butt? There is a problem in Indian
communities with white women who marry or live with Indian men and
think that gives them equal or superior rights as Indians. Lisa is one
of those women. She has claimed to be an enrolled Indian and she is
not. Do you remember she told me that if I had contacted her off list
she would have told me where she is enrolled. When I confronted her
this time she said she is not enrolled. It matters. Look what damage
Ward Churchill has done speaking as an Indian when he is not. We have a
problem here in the PNW with a major leader who has a white girlfriend
about 20 years younger than he. She has tried to take over programms
and demands special attention. No one is giving it to her and sadly he
is becoming a laughing stock. There are Indian men who think the
ultimate success symbol is a white woman. There is a teaching here
that a man only kknows as much as the woman behind him. Power and
knowledge travel through women. Ceremonies powered by a white woman
will be impotent. I have confronted Lisa about her lies. She is a white
woman trying to speak as an Indian. That is wrong. If someone had
confronted Churchill 20 or so years ago we wouldn't have to be dealing
with all the damage he has done. I have angered you and Ben. I am
sorry. But it is wrong to allow Lisa to be speaking as Indian when she
is not. One of our problems in our communities is people liek Joe. He
is willing to allow Lisa her lies simply because she attacks Wayne and
me. He is a sellout. I don't care who agrees with me or disagrees with
me. I think the fbi ordered the execution of Anna Mae. I think an
AIM/FBI double agent carried out that execution. I think AIM stupidly
allowed themselves to be entrapped in this. I don't have any mroe proof
than the feds do. I don't think there will be anymore indictments.
Arlo and John will be the scapegoats in this. I hear Arlo is being
promised early release for cooperation and he is cooperating. That
breaks my heart. But there is nothing I can do about it. If Joe and
others knew who the killers are for 30 years and they really cared
about justice for Anna Mae then why didn't they come forward before
this? Answer me this, what would you think about this case if it was
happening in old Russia? There are days that I want to just walk away.
There is mostly wannabes, white people and cops of various kinds
posting on this list. There are very few Indians here these days. Arlo
was abandoned by all his friends. I don't believe that there can be
justice for Indians in a white man's court. I believe that Arlo and
John have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Tell
me what is wrong with that? I believe that the fbi is responsible for
Anna Mae's death and should be held acccountable. What is wrong with
that?

As for Cobra, I don't read his posts unless he is on a thread I'm on.
Sometimes he makes me laugh. I haven't seen his vulgar stuff you talked
about. It was wrong of me but I was trying to sic him on Lisa and Joe.
That was a dud. I don't read RC, Lisa, and the ones I think are Eli's
fractured personalities. I was told that Cobra is Eli, which is why I
stopped reading his posts a long time ago.

[blut...@gmail.com]

You are such a lier Monica I have NEVER claimed to be enrolled PERIOD!
YOUR DAMN RIGHT IT MATTERS. Your a lier and your paranoid reputation
for sick provocation speaks for it's self loud and clear. DAmn, go find
yourself a man and stop dreaming up ways to harm good people.

[opine]

It was misdirected respect Donna. It happens.
You are not alone in this mistake either.
It has happened to a lot of people especially where AIM is concerned.

Blind ignorance, hatred, and racism is exactly what has brought so much
genocide upon native people. Doing the same in reverse is just as wrong.

None of us besides Michael Jackson can change the color of our skin.
The only thing we can change is how we treat ourselves and each other.

You just have to learn to recognize them as the enemy they are.
They are those who would bring pan-indianism as an answer.
They are those who would say hatred, ignorance, and racism guised as
something sweet and heroic the ignorant unsuspecting might swallow.
They would say you cannot work side by side as an equal human being.
They cannot stand it if you disagree with them.
You either bow to them or you are their enemy.
They learned it well from their handlers.

This is why AIM lost credibility with so many nations.
What they spoke was not the same as their actions.
They didn't hesitate to murder those whose words matched their deeds.
Anna Mae was one of many this happened to.
It is why they attack like mad dogs when confronted with the truth.
This is what they are trained to do and they are consistent in it.

It is why so many have awakened and realized they don't need AIM.
They have learned the truth and turned their backs on AIM.
They can stand on their own as people of their nation and do
what needs to be done and do it with honor and respect.

So Donna, while some of us may disagree with your opinions at times,
we don't have to hate and despise you just because you're white.
We don't have to treat you or speak to you in a degrading manner.

We do reserve the right to tease you about your white butt though.
It wouldn't be done to be dehumanizing though.
If people don't learn to laugh with each other,
they will never get along or learn anything.

oldwifetale wrote:
> Monica wrote:
>> I guess it's different living on a small rez than a big city like
>> Denver. I find Lisa extremelyh offensive. I found kitty's statement
>> offensive. But keep kissing white butts Joe. I'm sure it will buy your
>> way into heaven.
>
> I just want to know, Monica... since i have held great respect for your
> opinions in the past... when did i stop being just another human and
> start being a "white butt"?

[Monica]

Lisa, sometimes you are pitiful and sometimes you are funny.

[Ben_Carnes]

opine wrote:
> The question was asked of Ben.
> If he isn't comfortable answering,
> maybe he could post his article/report again as a reply.
>
> What do you believe?
> Was Smashed Eyes sent or did he act alone?

Just got off the road. Been gone for a few days, and it looks like I
have a lot to catch up on here. But as to whether I think the FBI
fulfilled their threat to Standing Deer that if he betrayed them, he
would pay with his life. Conjecture or circumstantial evidence comes
in to play here. If people would like I can repost the link to the
news story that was done on what could have happen.

There are some people that needs to be spoken with. I did speak with
Pius within a week after he murdered SD at the County Jail. He reminds
me of a psychopathic liar. If one lie doesn't work, then just switch to
another lie. Never mind that it conflicts with everything he had just
said.

Until I know for sure, I won't say if Price or Woods were guiding
Pius. But his travels prior to reaching Houston seems odd, like a
person on a mission. He needed someone to give him an "in", and Anna
got used.

The night before he was murdered, I may have been the last one person
to speak with Standing Deer. He told me Leonard Crow Dogs nephew was
there. Knowing how so many people drops Leonards name. I ask Deer to
ask him where Onwa lives. He asked Pius, who said that he lived on Pine
Ridge. I responded by saying that I thought he lived on Rosebud. Pius
said that he goes back and forth.

When I saw him in the County Jail, A friend who went with me, talk to
Pius at length about what had happened. He stauch with his immocent
story and how he found him dead early the next morning after he left
the apt. around 7PM. So I asked him where Onwa lived. He repeated
everything the same as when I call that night. He looked at me kinda
funny. So I told him that if he left Standing deers at 7 PM, what the
fuck was he doing there at 10:20 PM and at 12:10 AM? He kept looking at
me and I told him that I was the one who called Standing Deer and asked
him the same questions. Then he changed his story. How Standing Deer
sent him to go and get a case of beer, fifths of vodka, whiskey, and
some wine. The autopsy reported there was no alcohol in SD's blood.
Pius is not a very good liar.

Ben

[opine]

Donna
Sometimes when the anger and discomfort levels rise here.
There is one question that has to be asked.

What is being fought about?
Is it cultural theft?
Is it genocide and racism and murder?
Is it assimilation?
Is it theft of our natural resources?

These things have to be fought against no matter how uncomfortable.
Sometimes it gets down and dirty and a bit rough and ugly.

There are some guidelines though.
A person doesn't have to resort to racism to fight racism is just one.
Hate and blind ignorance are not needed.
Threatening and physical violence are not needed except in reaction.
In other words, it is okay to defend yourself against bullies.
It is okay to stop a wrongdoer engaged in wrongdoing.
Truth is required.
Respect towards the wrongdoers is usually an abused waste.
Outsiders are generally not appreciated or wanted in a family fight.

It is a rotten thing to do to pretend to be using these guidelines
but actually be fighting for the bad things already mentioned.

In this sea of words called the internet,
it can be hard to figure out who the real wrongdoers are.
There are some clues that eventually give them away.
You've just had the displeasure of such an experience.

this comment was exceptional and many agree with you:

> i think it is just as appropriate
> to argue for the side that is against racism in ALL its forms as it is
> to fight against racism toward people of color.

If that's what is called kissing your white butt by some,
then smooch! lol!

[opine]

He was sent.

If John Boy talks, Standing Deer's murdering conspirators have a lot
to be nervous about because that will probably come out too.

[Monica]

If that's what is called kissing your white butt by some,
> then smooch! lol!

geeze joe.....You are so funny...btw I'm not AIM. I just believe that
Arlo and John have the right to be considered innocent until proven
guilty. Why does that threaten you so? Remember when Floyd Westerman
did that song about BIA Indians? He needs to do a new one about FBI
Indians. Why don't you want the FBI held accountable for their
significant part in the murder of Anna Mae?

[oldwifetale]

I agree with many of your words, Opine. But about Monica i do not
agree. To me Monica is a human, her words are her 'voice', and i do not
lump her into a 'collective', as to say "those AIM People". I don't
know *anything* about AIM except that it was infiltrated. I'm an
outsider. Her position in AIM is not something i can 'judge' one way or
another. Personally, i've always had a 'feeling' that something about
the John Boy part doesn't seem right, but i couldn't say what, and i
sure am not going to make any argument based on only a 'feeling'. And
about Anna Mae... as i told Monica several years ago... the more i try
to understand it, the more confusing it gets. And that is why i don't
say anything about ANY of it. Wasn't there, don't know. But i do know
that Monica is not 'that'. She is a 'who', at least to me. I know that
she loves her family, her people. That means she's not walking around
with an empty skinsuit and no heart. So long as that's the case - i
don't care *who* it is - then i'm not going to say that person is
'unworthy' of my respect! What am *i*, the queen of england? I do not
think my respect is misdirected even if i disagree with her about
something, or if i am wrong, or if she is wrong, or if whoever is wrong
- unless i also lose her respect just because i am white. I don't think
that will happen. So i would rather just think about Monica's post for
a bit, and then talk with her about this directly, friend to friend.

donna

[opine]

Look who really is SQUIRMING and feels threatened.

Why do you keep protecting the FBI?
Why resort to blatant racism?
Why resort to such lying?

Arlo told too many people what he did over the years.
John Boy talks and it can lead to a solid case against the FBI involved.
A good clean fair trial for John Boy would be great!
It would remove a lot of doubts in a lot of minds.
That opinion alone has driven you to irrational posting.
It will bring the whole dirty mess out into the open.
Your precious FBI is going to be publicly humiliated.
That really frightens you. It has you completely flustered.

Are you going to presume the FBI involved innocent until proven guilty?
Besides, wanting John Boy to talk then proves beyond all reasonable
doubt who is really full of garbage.

Why don't you really want the FBI involved held accountable?
Why do you work against the very thing that can make that happen?

We've known for a very long time that John Boy pulled the trigger.
Most of us want real justice, not courtroom garbage.
Anna Mae's family is who wanted to proceed with this legally.

You have no idea how many were kept from handing out justice
and getting this over with clean and quick.
You also have no idea what it took to even get indictments.
Your precious FBI sure does not want this going to trial.
It especially does not want it to go to trial in Canada.

You are not GW Bush where you can keep telling a big lie and if it
gets told enough people will believe it is true.

btw, Joe said you're just crazy. Apparently that is an opinion held
by more than just a few people. Maybe it is why you cannot read.
Maybe it is why you are so irrational and have to have someone else
post for you sometimes.

Sorry, don't know anyone here that wants to kiss your butt.
It does not matter how much they SQUIRM and prod you,
it will be over soon enough and soon they won't be able to stop it.

[opine]

So on some things we can just agree to disagree.

oldwifetale wrote:

> I agree with many of your words, Opine. But about Monica i do not
> agree. To me Monica is a human, her words are her 'voice', and i do not
> lump her into a 'collective', as to say "those AIM People". I don't
> know *anything* about AIM except that it was infiltrated. I'm an
> outsider. Her position in AIM is not something i can 'judge' one way or
> another. Personally, i've always had a 'feeling' that something about
> the John Boy part doesn't seem right, but i couldn't say what, and i
> sure am not going to make any argument based on only a 'feeling'. And
> about Anna Mae... as i told Monica several years ago... the more i try
> to understand it, the more confusing it gets. And that is why i don't
> say anything about ANY of it. Wasn't there, don't know. But i do know
> that Monica is not 'that'. She is a 'who', at least to me. I know that
> she loves her family, her people. That means she's not walking around
> with an empty skinsuit and no heart. So long as that's the case - i
> don't care *who* it is - then i'm not going to say that person is
> 'unworthy' of my respect! What am *i*, the queen of england? I do not
> think my respect is misdirected even if i disagree with her about
> something, or if i am wrong, or if she is wrong, or if whoever is wrong
> - unless i also lose her respect just because i am white. I don't think
> that will happen. So i would rather just think about Monica's post for
> a bit, and then talk with her about this directly, friend to friend.
>
> donna
>
>

[opine]

Thank you for making it clear that Monica is your friend.

We don't want her to get confused and think that we are friends.
We don't want anyone else getting confused and thinking it either.
That is something that probably cannot ever be possible.
It just is not in me to talk to a friend the way she has talked to you.

oldwifetale wrote:

> So i would rather just think about Monica's post for
> a bit, and then talk with her about this directly, friend to friend.
>
> donna

[Monica]

Joe you are so funny. If you have known for 30 years what really
happened why didn't you come forward? Why don't you want the fbi held
accountable? All you do is talk about John. Did Arlo confess to you?
Why didn't you come forward and testify that he confessed to you? I
want the FBI held accountable for their significant role in Anna Mae's
murder. Let's hear you say what you want them held accountable for?
What do you think is their role in the murder of Anna Mae Aquash?

[Monica]

btw. Did you call the people who have been exposing Churchill's lies
for years a racist? I suppose you defended him like you're defending
Lisa. Weak link Joe.

[opine]

That is called hearsay.
This is what was told to several people Arlo confessed to.
The taped confession, the mess that it was, was not hearsay.
The prosecuter determines who is called to testify.

Why didn't you ever investigate?

No wonder Joe thinks you're crazy.

Monica wrote:

> Why didn't you come forward and testify that he confessed to you?

[Monica]

Joe I would never call you a friend. My friends are mostly artists and
writers, intelligent and active within their Tribal community. You and
I don't have anything in common. I live on a small remote rez in the
pacific northwest. You live in a big city far from your homelands. I am
a part of my Traditional Faith. It looks like you are a Sioux wannabe
with your inipi ceremonies. Be assured I would never call you a friend.

[opine]

This is so far out there, so wrong, and so very weak.
Sitting here looking at the thread title, it is so appropriate.
All it needs is a correction in punctuation.
Monica: Words from the Brown Idiot
Now that you have the title, you can write a book.

Monica wrote:
> btw. Did you call the people who have been exposing Churchill's lies
> for years a racist? I suppose you defended him like you're defending
> Lisa. Weak link Joe.

[Monica]

That is also called rumor. So you didn't actually hear Arlo say that he
was involved? Arlo was drunk when he was taped. He doesn't remember it.
It should have been suppressed because he was incapacitated. Everyone
is repeating the story that Arlo has been confessing but I have yet to
find anyone who heard the story first hand. Shaina too said that Arlo
had been confessing but she had never heard him confess. Could this be
another fbi planted story? Sounds like it to me. You told me a couple
years ago that everytime Anna Mae's name was menntioned Arlo would
throw up. Why didn't you testify to that? Did you actually see that
yourself or is that another story that you heard? Sounds like another
fbi planted story to me. If you knew anything about the murder of Anna
Mae you should have come forward with it. Especially if you have known
for 30 years. That is if you actually want justice for Anna Mae.

[Monica]

That's your story Joe, you write it. You make me laugh. I agree with
Wayne. I can't ignore you either. I keep hoping for you Joe.

[opine]

Who said anything about Joe or me being friends with you?
Or are you suddenly confusing yourself with Donna.
What personality are you posting with, Donna or Monica?

Do you have a disability reading?
How are you going to write your book:

Monica: Words from the Brown Idiot

If you keep doing things like this?

If you are going to write a book, even plagerizing like Churchill,
at least have the decency to get your facts straight.
Sorry, forgot that you have issues with the truth.

Sockpuppets are known to have certain dysfunctions from time to time.

[opine]

There you go again.
You don't know who came forward and when they came forward.
You don't know who they spoke to or if they were at the grand jury.
The only planting is the effort you're making to say ignore the truth.

SQUIRMING

[opine]

As long as you help keep them SQUIRMING
you can write your book even if the title is true
and the content is fiction.

[Monica]

Donna's going to have fun with you thinking that I am her. I can't wait
to see that. No Joe, unlike you I read well and a lot. Truth is a big
part of what I do. How do you know that John was involved in Anna Mae's
death? Were you a witness. You admitted that you did not hear "Arlo's
confession" first hand. Let's have truth Joe. What do you know that
you can actually prove? Did you call the people that exposed
Churchill a racist? Comeon Joe stand by your word.