Lesson 101: Let's Talk About Crystals And The Cherokee
Summer
The following is taken from a book written by a father and son who are
Cherokee of the Eastern Band from North Carolina. They are both extremely
educated both in traditional Cherokee ways, but also through Universities
and Colleges. They are both teachers of Indian Medicine and Cherokee
Medicine in particular. The father has been teaching what was taught to him
for over thirty five years. They are J.T. Garrett, Ed.D and Tlanusta
Garrett, Ph.D.....
I thought to share with you all a few excerpts from their book,
"Medicine of the Cherokee - The Way of Right Relationship". This book was
written by both Garrett's.
"To the Cherokee the Crystal is more than just an energy stone. It is a
spirit being with the healing energy of the Sun. It merges with our energy,
or it may 'feel' hot or repel like a magnet. Once merged or having the
connection with our energy, there is a special feeling or awareness. You
will feel a spirit movement or a tingle that you know is powerful. It is
not a process as much as an experience."
"The Sacred Crystal was used by the early Cherokee spiritual leaders,
just as the Sacred Pipe is used today by many tribes. Learning to use the
quartz crystal also provides a balance and protection to our spirit self.
It helps us to maintain control of the Four Directions. The light shining
through a crystal is the Sun rising in the East and the Moon setting in the
West, and is sacred. In earlier times, a divining crystal was used by the
spiritual clan leader, who would gather the families together in a room and
wait until the Sun would rise in the East and pass through the crystal.
While he or she would not touch the crystal, it was placed in such a way
that the reflected light would pass over the people to clear them for the
next Moon, or month. The crystal was to remind us of a true and natural
power that was protected by the "Little People" or the spirit people.
Therefore, the crystal was highly respected as an honor stone."
" The Cherokee understood the crystal to be the spirit of a person who
passed on and who was cleared by Mother Earth or by a star person who is
here to help balance us. The crystal has its own special energy that the
Cherokee say is connected to the Star Spirits."
ovation
The Cherokee is the main tribe that is picked on by fakes ... I have many
friends who are Cherokee... and I will be asking them about what you said...
One friend who has worked with the Cherokee Nation for many years... I
think she would be a great resource dont you?
Summer
~~~~~~~~
Granted this is truth, yet what does this have to do with what I have
placed here by authors who themselves are Cherokee?
~~~~~~~~~~
Keely posts:
I have many
friends who are Cherokee...
~~~~~~~~~~
So what?! So do I! Is this "friend" a spokesperson for the ENTIRE
Nation? People only know what they are taught. Who is to say that this one
person knows everything! I most certainly do not. Because I do not Keely,
I say I do not. I then ask get educated on it. I look to books. Not just
one book but as many as I can. I THIRST FOR KNOWLEDGE Keely! Therefore I
quench what I thirst for Keely!
~~~~~~~~~
Keely posts: and I will be asking them about what you said...
~~~~~~~
This is admission that you PERSONALLY don't know Keely! You are
learning! That is good. :-)
~~~~~~~~~~
Keely posts:
One friend who has worked with the Cherokee Nation for many years... I
think she would be a great resource dont you?
~~~~~~~~~
She might be one resource. But let me ask you this.....Is this person from
the Eastern Band as we are currently speaking of the Eastern Band of
Cherokees. :-)
BTW: If there is anyone interested in this book for information:
ISBN# 1-879181-37-1 Bear & Company Publishing
Another book to recommend here for further reading on Crystals and the
Cherokee's is by Thomas Mail (I realize he is a "Wisicu" yet he was accepted
by many Native Tribes, including the Lakota People)
"The Cherokee People" ISBN# 1-56924-762-5
I think it will make for interesting reading! It is very informative IMO
Mark K. Bilbo
Summer wrote in message ...
> The Cherokee is the main tribe that is picked on by fakes
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> Granted this is truth, yet what does this have to do with what I
have
>placed here by authors who themselves are Cherokee?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
Well, are you saying that all authors always tell the truth? Or that
it impossible to write a lie? Or maybe that once written, something
becomes true? Or perhaps you mean that no Indian would ever seek to
profit by writing something that meets the dominant culture's
expectations?
On what basis do you assert that these individuals are Cherokee other
than that they say so?
Assuming they are Cherokee, on what basis do you assert they know what
they are talking about *other than that they simply say they do?
Assuming they *do know what they are talking about, on what basis do
you assert they have written what they know and have done so
accurately?
Assuming *all of the above, on what basis do you assert that you have
understood what was meant?
>Keely posts:
> I have many
>friends who are Cherokee...
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> So what?! So do I! Is this "friend" a spokesperson for the ENTIRE
>Nation? People only know what they are taught. Who is to say that
this one
>person knows everything! I most certainly do not. Because I do not
Keely,
>I say I do not. I then ask get educated on it. I look to books.
Not just
>one book but as many as I can. I THIRST FOR KNOWLEDGE Keely!
Therefore I
>quench what I thirst for Keely!
>
> ~~~~~~~~~
And how do you sort out those books written purely for profit motive
that do nothing but play to cultural expectations? What criteria do
you use to discard incorrect information?
>
>Keely posts: and I will be asking them about what you said...
>
> ~~~~~~~
>
> This is admission that you PERSONALLY don't know Keely! You are
>learning! That is good. :-)
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
Keely has never asserted being Cherokee to my knowledge. In fact,
Keely is *very clear on tribal affiliation.
>
>Keely posts:
> One friend who has worked with the Cherokee Nation for many
years... I
>think she would be a great resource dont you?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~
>
>She might be one resource. But let me ask you this.....Is this
person from
>the Eastern Band as we are currently speaking of the Eastern Band of
>Cherokees. :-)
>
>BTW: If there is anyone interested in this book for information:
>
>ISBN# 1-879181-37-1 Bear & Company Publishing
Um, this "Bear & Company" bunch... aren't they the remains of Sun
Bear's old crew?
Mark
KDenn39
No, the person I will not be asking will not be Nanina of whom you hate so
much.
I will be asking LeeAnn Dreadfulwater. She is of the Cherokee Nation... not of
Eastern Band, for we both know where the Eastern Band stand on this issue.
I do not plan to read any books. I plan to go to the people themselves and ask
them, not read what a author thought they said, or what they author wishes they
had said.
Many books are written... but they are written by a person who is trying to
translate what they thought they heard...
This is the reason my people do not speak to authors... as one elder put it
"They always put words in my mouth that had never come out of my mouth"
I am in no way putting you down for reading books, everyone needs something to
do in their spare time... but always remember, just because it is written does
not make it so.
Always remember one lesson you had about those same books... you quoted
"Sitting Bull" as to having said "They made us many promises, they kept but
only one, they promised to take our land and they took it" When several people
told you it had been Red Cloud that had made that famous quote, you argued with
everyone... because you read it in a book... I ask you now, how correct was
your book about that statement being made by Sitting Bull?
I am not putting you down... but trying to get you to THINK!
Mark K. Bilbo
Meggie wrote in message <35ee8dcb...@news.mindspring.com>...
>You have made some damn fine points here. May I save these to hurl at
>my opponent when it comes up again. You know, it ALWAYS comes up
>again. ;)
Be my guest. Because you're right, it *always* comes up again... and
again... and again...
Mark (ten years, it's really been ten years...)
jeanine r pinkney
Have you gotten permission from the authors of this book to be quoting
extensively from them?
What prompts you at this time to expose information that many consider
sacred, to a large mixed forum where some people will disrespect this
information?
If this information has been published in books, why repost it here?
Anyone who is really interesetd can look up the book. But reposting it
here creates some awkward situations. For the sake of those who -do- pray
with crystals, I feel bad to see this information exposed to derision in
this way.
I do not pray with crystals, this is not my way. But I respect the fact
that some people do. Just like some people pray with rosaries, tobacco,
relics, candles, river stones, etc etc etc. These things help people
pray. I personally believe that God is more concerned with what's in our
hearts, than what's in our hands, when we pray.
You say you learn a lot from books. Beware -- the written word is a great
trickster. The best teacher is the team of Experience, Insight, and
Vision.
Right now there's a hurricane on the east coast. We have all been asked
to pray for the safety of the people out there. WHether you pray with
crystals or something else, please, let's all pray.
All the best --
Dee
KDenn39
I am a great fan of prayers.... no matter whom one worships or what...
But I doubt there is one person here who wants anyone to shove their beliefs,
or their books upon anyone of us who were raised within our culture... to be
told we are wrong or we should have crystals is out of line IMO
My religion is very private to me... I was raised to keep it private... I
would rather someone post about their private sex life no matter how dull than
to listen to anyone go on about their religion.. or the use of crystals of
which I am sure someone is out there using one during sex thinking it will
bring them to a higher.... er ahhh lets leave it at that <g>
Kdawn
K
Meggie wrote:
> kde...@aol.com (KDenn39) wrote:
>
> >My religion is very private to me... I was raised to keep it private... I
> >would rather someone post about their private sex life no matter how dull than
> >to listen to anyone go on about their religion..
>
> You took the words right out of my mouth!
>
> Meggie
Jmcatron
So has anyone heard any good jokes lately?
hahaha
Ouia
Elaine
jeanine r pinkney wrote:
> I got a stupid one ...
> You know why they call seagulls, seagulls?
> No, why?
> cos they fly over the sea. If they few over the bay we'd have to calll
> them bay-guls!
>
> Here's a dirty story -- my white dog jumped in the mud puddle and then
> jumped on me! He did that cos he loved me and wanted to honor me. An
> honor is not an honor when it leaves the honorer's paws, but only when it
> is accepted on the honoree's shirt.
>
> Scraping the bottom of the barrel ...
> Dee
Elaine
Here's one about the old native American who wanted a loan for $500.
The banker pulled out the loan application, "What are you going
to do with the money?"
"Take jewlery to city and sell it," was the response.
"What have you got for collateral?"
"Don't know collateral."
"Well that's something of value that would cover the cost of
the loan.Have you got any vehicles?"
"Yes, 1949 Chevy pickup."
The banker shook his head, "How about livestock?"
"Yes, I have a horse."
"How old is it?"
"Don't know, has no teeth."
Finally the banker decided to make the $500 loan.
Several weeks later the old man was back in the bank. He pulled
out a roll of bills, "Here to pay." he said.
He then handed the banker the money to pay his loan off
"What are you going to do with the rest of that money?"
"Put in teepee."
"Why don't you deposit it in my bank," he asked.
"Don't know deposit."
"You put the money in our bank and we take care of it for you.
When you want to use it you can withdraw it."
The old Indian leaned across the desk, "What you got for
collateral?"
Thunder Voice
jeanine r pinkney wrote:
> Well, in some religions for some people there is a time and a palce for
> it. But the trick is to talk about it only in times and places where it
> will be respected and udnerstood. Otherwise everyone winds up dissing on
> sacred thigns and that can only lead to dirty socks in the punchbowl.
>
> JRP
And there is NO good time to discuss it in this forum. This is NOT the place to be
discussing spirituality.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
For URGENT email: 146...@pager.mirabilis.com
I will recieve this mail the instant I log on!
Visit The CHERRONE Family Homepage:
http://home1.gte.net/web101jj/
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove yourself from that which you know to be wrong!
Jim Mitchell
authority, then it's not good to go flashing titles and affiliations,
especially if these are not real. If there is a possibility that the
sacred matter under discussion will be disrespected, then best to keep
quiet about it on these forums.
Comments, anyone?
thanks --
Dee"
jeanine r pinkney
it. But the trick is to talk about it only in times and places where it
will be respected and udnerstood. Otherwise everyone winds up dissing on
sacred thigns and that can only lead to dirty socks in the punchbowl.
JRP
Bart Torbert
>
>Prove they were Cherokee Linda/Summer/nagi
>
many
>friends who are Cherokee... and I will be asking them about what you
said...
>One friend who has worked with the Cherokee Nation for many years... I
>think she would be a great resource dont you?
>
>
the general point about the use of crystals for sprititual/healing
purposes is quite valid. Whether the authors of the book know the real
scoop on this is another issue.
Dee is right about asking if it was proper to quote the book on line and
if this newsgroup is an appropriate forum for the dispersion of
this sort of "private" information. It seems to me to go a bit too far.
Just mentioning the book would have been sufficient.
Bart
jeanine r pinkney
Greendarnr
<christophe...@gte.net> writes:
>And there is NO good time to discuss it in this forum. This is NOT the place
>to be discussing spirituality.
And yet again, it is said. Now, won't anybody listen? >sigh<
c.w. >I<
"I was born with eyes that can never close." -from: I Give You Back" by Joy
Harjo '83
Tegan
Many Blessings,
Tegan :)
Who is fishing out the socks...
jeanine r pinkney <jr...@gnofn.org> wrote in article
<6s4vka$l...@junkie.gnofn.org>...
Summer
place
>to be discussing spirituality.
And yet again, it is said. Now, won't anybody listen? >sigh<
~~~~~~~~~
LOL You're joking right?! This board has talk about "spirituality"?! Does
any one of you have any idea just what "Spirituality" is?! REALLY! I have
yet to see a post that is about it, all I have seen is garbage about me in
truth! I must really make all of your day! I'm so happy to be able to give
you that good feeling inside that you have someone to pick on. It gives me
a chuckle as well to see what joy you get out of it, and to see how creative
some can be! :-)
JAMADACAI
(Jmcatron) writes:
>So has anyone heard any good jokes lately?
>
>hahaha
>
>Ouia
Quickest way to take the CENSUS in Scotland?
Throw a penny into the street.
Angela : )
http://members.aol.com/JAMADACAI/3index.html
jeanine r pinkney
<35E60D94...@exis.net>:
Distribution:
hehehe ... good one!
earlier today I was thinking of a coupla f@rt jokes. Shall I spare ya'll?
Dee
Elaine <meha...@exis.net> wrote:
(etc)
> "You put the money in our bank and we take care of it for you.
> When you want to use it you can withdraw it."
> The old Indian leaned across the desk, "What you got for
> collateral?"
> Elaine wrote:
> > GROAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me go look in my file for ya............
> >
> > j
> --------------D5E33498C1112B5DBA4060FC
> Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Description: Card for Elaine Harvey
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"
> begin: vcard
> fn: Elaine Harvey
> n: Harvey;Elaine
> email;internet: meha...@exis.net
> title: Corporate Goddess
> note: Never take life seriously...no one gets out alive, anyway.
> x-mozilla-cpt: ;0
> x-mozilla-html: FALSE
> version: 2.1
> end: vcard
> --------------D5E33498C1112B5DBA4060FC--
jeanine r pinkney
how if we could agree upon a brief message to this effect, and post it
whenever appropraite, it might stop some of these religious quarrels taht
keep popping up. Maybe something like this:
"Many people regard it improper to discuss sacred things in public where
they may be misunderstood, misapplied, or, worst of all, disrespected.
Please refrain."
Only problem is, there are times when it is ok. Every now and then
someone posts a poem or story or joke that can be appreciated by all. Or a
call for prayer -- no humans have been hurt or lost their lives in this
hurricane and maybe that's in part becaause many here in Usenet land
responded to the call for prayer.
I think the key here is respect. Humor and humility help, too. Also
timeliness, etc. It's a tough call.
If a person cannot let good words and good truth stand on their own
authority, then it's not good to go flashing titles and affiliations,
especially if these are not real. If there is a possibility that the
sacred matter under discussion will be disrespected, then best to keep
quiet about it on these forums.
Comments, anyone?
thanks --
Dee
Thunder Voice <christophe...@gte.net> wrote:
> jeanine r pinkney wrote:
> > Well, in some religions for some people there is a time and a palce for
> > it. But the trick is to talk about it only in times and places where it
> > will be respected and udnerstood. Otherwise everyone winds up dissing on
> > sacred thigns and that can only lead to dirty socks in the punchbowl.
> >
> > JRP
> And there is NO good time to discuss it in this forum. This is NOT the place to be
> discussing spirituality.
td...@skylands.net
wrote:
>
>Another book to recommend here for further reading on Crystals and the
>Cherokee's is by Thomas Mail (I realize he is a "Wisicu" yet he was accepted
>by many Native Tribes, including the Lakota People)
> "The Cherokee People" ISBN# 1-56924-762-5
>
>I think it will make for interesting reading! It is very informative IMO
we're talking about cherokees and someone is using lakota words?
Trika
td...@skylands.net
<mark_k...@csi.com> wrote:
Mark,
Say it ain't so? Is that ugly head rearing up still?
Trika
Magpie
>And there is NO good time to discuss it in this forum. This is NOT the
>place
>>to be discussing spirituality.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~
>
>LOL You're joking right?! This board has talk about "spirituality"?! Does
>any one of you have any idea just what "Spirituality" is?! REALLY!
Nope. No spirituality here. Not a spark. Everybody here is as shallow as they come.
The latest Box office returns, household help and Gianni Versace is about all they
usually talk about here. Obviously we'll never be able to converse on your higher
level. We'll never get it.
I guess you'll have to move along. Sorry!
Bu-Bye! :)
-m
lisa dillon
carrved the word in my wall next to my bed so every nite when I rolled
over thats what I saw! entill he changed it to EERP! In our house we
call them BUMMBLE BEES for girls and POP ROCKETS for boys, became a big
hit at the Montissori school! anyway I dont mind f@rt jokes that much
..Lisa Dillon
Beadedweb2
>told we are wrong or we should have crystals is out of line IMO
>
>
Yes, a non-Indian corrected an Indian on 'how to be more Indian' is wrong - I
have had this happen to me, and I just say 'ok' and walk away (just my
approach)... although Indians did not use crystals universally, some in my
tribe do. So, although I don't like to see crystals overused, it is not
accurate to say no Indians use/used crystals.
Personally, I like to ignore the issue since crystals are so very overused by
new agers.
thanks for listening. bye! Chris
Summer
Baamaapii...
Jimmie
Thank you Jimmie! I think you've said it all......do you think someone might
catch on and possibly "get it"? There is really no time left for all this
and that is why I can not waste anymore precious time on such GARBAGE.
Kdawn
jeanine r pinkney
Distribution:
Ok, I'm running out of time for right now but I'll mark htis spot and next
time post the f@rt jokes I had in mind, unless anyone objects! If anyone
does, speak now or forever hold it in -- or at least till you can get in
private... or just skip over my next message on this thread!
pbbbbbbttftftft!
HotDog!
Randy R. Cox
Ha! Good one. With a few words and a laugh you triggered one of
those mysterious hints to truth that life often offers, but we too
seldom follow.
You see I am so free with things I own or control that my tool buddy
at work has threatened to divorce me. He says I give away all our
material, tools, and printed information so often to others that ask
that we never have anything to work with ourselves. He also complains
that I spend so much time helping others that I leave him to work
alone when he really needs my help.
Now my three sisters are just the opposite. They ask for personal
favors at the drop of a hat, but on the rare occasion that one is
asked of them they politely explain how they have just read some book
that taught them how to say no! When it comes to money they are so
tight they squeak when they walk. One of them called my wife once and
asked if she would drive across town to visit her. My wife needed to
stay home for some reason, but asked her to come visit us. My sister
said it cost nearly a dollar in gas to go both ways and it just didn't
fit her budget. Her husband made three times as much money as I did!
I have a lifetime of similiar stories about all three of my sisters.
My mother was as crazy with things and money as I am. It has been a
mystery all my life where my sisters got their severe frugality. Now,
in an instant I have a hint-- Scottish ancestors! Who knows? It was
just a little joke, but thanks!
Randy
Thunder Voice
jeanine r pinkney wrote:
> Yep. I was thinking earlier and discussion in email with someone, about
> how if we could agree upon a brief message to this effect, and post it
> whenever appropraite, it might stop some of these religious quarrels taht
> keep popping up. Maybe something like this:
>
> "Many people regard it improper to discuss sacred things in public where
> they may be misunderstood, misapplied, or, worst of all, disrespected.
> Please refrain."
>
> Only problem is, there are times when it is ok.
(snipped)
I try, not very successfull though, to apply a rule from back when I was in a christian
church. "Does it edify anyone or any thing?" If not, dont discuss it!
fi...@digitalcave.com
"Summer" <Summe...@Aol.Com> wrote:
> Another book to recommend here for further reading on Crystals and the
> Cherokee's is by Thomas Mail (I realize he is a "Wisicu" yet he was accepted
> by many Native Tribes, including the Lakota People)
> "The Cherokee People" ISBN# 1-56924-762-5
>
> I think it will make for interesting reading! It is very informative IMO
>
Dear Summer,
Regardless of whether Mails was "accepted" by "many Native Tribes", his book
on the Cherokee should not be used as a source of information. He made some
MAJOR mistakes regarding Cherokee history and culture, by being quite
selective with his source materials. (Rather than go so far as to say that
this was deliberate misinformation, I would rather say that he let his
background as a Christian Minister and his desire to reconcile Native
religious belief with Christianity get the best of him. He selected source
materials that "fit" christian teachings as closely as possible. The problem
with this, as one example, was when he did such things as accept as
"traditional" various folktales that were told to missionaries by their
converts. After being indoctrinated in Christianity and told that the Native
religious practices were mere "primitive superstition" or even "works of the
devil," is it any wonder than they would parrot back slightly garbled
versions of what the missionaries had been teaching them and claim that this
was what the Cherokee believed? Mails should have realized his error by
noting that the ONLY time such close biblical parallels were recorded was
when asked of christianized Cherokees! Similarly, Mails did such things as
interpret vague recollections of Spanish and English "renegades" who had gone
native among a few Cherokee villages as meaning that the ancient Cherokee had
ALL been heavily bearded!
The Mails book is interesting to read, but it is at least half fiction. So
trust it only at your peril!
Sincerely (not amused with Thomas Mails),
Wade Wofford.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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jeanine r pinkney
Distribution:
I see what you're saying now. Sometimes even edifying is not enough!
My apologies to all.
Dee
jeanine r pinkney
Distribution:
Warning -- Bathroom humor! If it may offend you, please skip this post!
Ok, here goes --
Once there was a man who liked beans. But he hardly ever ate them
because, well, you know. One morning his wife told him, take your time
coming home cos I got some errands to do this evening. So he stopped on
the way home and had some beans.
He got home and found the hosue all dark. He tried the light switch,
didn't work. He struck a match and found a note taped to the switch.
"Blown fuse. Gone to hardware store to get another one. Luv -- wife" So
he sat down and decided to make himsself comfrotable while he waited.
He was a nudist at heart, so he took off all his clothes like he often did
when relaxing at home. He Scratched himself and let out a few rippers....
Brrp! Brrptptptp! Pbbbbbpbppttt! Phew, did it stink! But he was alone
in his own house ... and many people secretly enjoy the smell of their
own, um, you know ...
After a while his wife replaced the fuse. It was just a ruse.
She'd removed the fuse to buy time for all the friends and relatives to
sit there in the dark, waiting for just th eright moment.
The wife entered, fliped the light switch, and hollered "Surprise !
Hapy Birthday!" It was the man's birthday. And there he was sitting there
naked and surrounded by his own farts! What a way to celebrate his
birthday -- in his birthday suit!
Another one --
There was a concert pianist who had a nervous colon. Every time he went
on stage, well, you know ...
So he said "I will play my own composition, -Thunder-" He banged the keys
atonally while he let out a few rippers ... then went on with the program.
Later on in the evening he started feeling pressure inside again. So he
said "I shall play a reprise of -Thunder-"
And a guy in the front row hollered out "Mister, can you leave out the
place where the outhouse blows over?"
Ok, good things come in threes --
"Bob" says that every body function except one has been elevated to the
status of sacrament in one religion or another. So in his "Church" he
institutes the sacrament of Excermeditation. That's when you, um, give up
something, it creates a vacuum inside. Then, if the top of your head is
open, "Slack" can come in! that's why a lot of good ideas come in the
bathroom.
Ok, I'm done ...
Randy R. Cox
wrote:
>ra...@worldnet.att.net (Randy R. Cox) wrote:
>
>>My mother was as crazy with things and money as I am. It has been a
>>mystery all my life where my sisters got their severe frugality. Now,
>>in an instant I have a hint-- Scottish ancestors! Who knows? It was
>>just a little joke, but thanks!
>>
>>Randy
>
>That's funny, Randy! It made me think about my brothers and sisters...
>seems like the boys got the 'cheap bug' in our family! My mother's
>father came from Ireland, but who's to say he didn't have some
>Scottish kin? Ya never know! ;)
>
>Meggie
Hi Meggie,
My ancestors were Scotch-Irish! That branch was Mckee and I have the
family back to the 1600's and old Tom Jefferson fits into there
somewhere around the middle. With all that info, I am ashamed to
admit that I can't tell Scotch from Irish. The name Mckee, and the
family goes back and forth between the two countries like a Cherokee
Princess in the Southern states.
If I were to seek my roots in those countries, as some suggest, can
you imagine how I would be received when I constantly kept getting
the spellings mixed up, and finally admitted that I couldn't tell a
Scotch from Irish. What a wannabe I would be? :-)
Randy
mys...@dorsai.org
>. With all that info, I am ashamed to
>admit that I can't tell Scotch from Irish.
It's verrrra easy me lad....Scotch is a whiskey while Irish is a
nationality. :-)
Nancy L Torrey - Hesse
mys...@dorsai.org wrote in message <6s8krf$4...@enews3.newsguy.com>...
FALL
I'm
a little hesitant to correct you---but-----
~~~~~~~
There is really nothing to correct "Apple". It is just someone viewing
something one way, and another viewing it from their own window in their
way. It's ok.
~~~~~~~
I am aware that some Cherokee did/do use crystals for a variety
of purposes but you need to use a more reliable reference to support your
argument.
~~~~~
There really was no argument!
~~~~~~~
This is not intended as a flame or the start of another argumentative
thread.
There are other writers out there with more reliable information that you
could
use to support your argument.
~~~~~~
And I do not take it as one. I respect your view actually and did a
post on this, not too long ago in regards to Mails and Mooney and other
authors of the kind....There were(and are) many authors who have put their
own Christian views into some of these books. This is true! This can
actually be dangerous when writing of a Peoples culture and history and
such. But yet, I posted on something that happens to be fact and someone
here who is Dine' stated it as such. Whether the source was a Christian
holds no bearing IF it actually is truth. What would hold water would be if
the author had said it wasn't because then he might be viewed as someone not
putting all the truth in because he left out the crystals simply because his
own religion didn't believe in them.
Now adays you have so much "New Age" stuff. Alot of people are
writing on many things to make a buck! Some authors slant truth to fit their
own point of view. Some even enhance the stories to sell better giving less
authenticity to its true meaning. This bothers me because everything that
you read may not necessarily be true. So therefore, "Reader beware"! This
brings me to asking if you feel there should be some kind of censorship
within the tribes. What do you feel about this? Anyone have any thoughts
or comments?
As for these authors, well I had to go and ask someone who actually was
an author for their opinion and it was given to me. I went to a friend of
mine who is also a Lakota author by the name of Ed McGaa (Eagleman) because
I know that if you ask 10 different people (Native) about "white" authors,
or even this one in particular, you will find different responses. I
suppose it can be said that everyone sees things from a different angle and
view or even perspective as I indicated above in another paragragh. The
author Ed McGaa(Eagleman) with whom I asked his opinion in regards to this
author and other "white" authors. . .With permission from EagleMan, his
response was "all these authors were slanted, except for a few and those are
mentioned in the back of my books." He seems to feel that Mooney was as you
proclaim with Mails in regards to "inaccuracy". This one particular
author(Eagleman) feels Mooney is slanted besides being inaccurate. It must
be remembered however, that it is only right to respect others opinions, and
hope they allow us ours. You will note however, that he does indeed
recommend Mails as a good author.
With permission, I have taken the books/authors he recommends for
Native/Spirituality Reading, and will post them here for anyone who is
interested in his recommendations. (* this does not reflect on my own
thoughts or opinions)
SUGGESTED READINGS
Ed McGaa(EagleMan)
****
Adams, Barbara Means. Prayers of Smoke. Berkeley, CA: Celestial Arts,
1990.
Arquelles Jose. The Mayan Factor, Santa Fe, NM: Bear & Company, 1987.
Bend Cynthia, and Tayja Wiger. Birth of a Modern Shaman. St. Paul, MN:
Llewellyn, 1988.
Brown, Joseph Epes. The Sacred Pipe: Black Elk's Account of the Seven
Sacred Rites of the Oglala Sioux. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press,
1953.
Brown, Tom. The Vision, New York: Berkley, 1991.
Brown, Vinson and William Willoya. Warriors of the Rainbow. Happy Camp,
CA: Naturegraph, 1962.
Bryde, John F. Modern Indian Psychology. Vermillion, SD: Department of
Indian Studies, University of South Dakota, 1971.
Campbell, Joseph, The Power of Myth. New York: Doubleday, 1988.
-------------------- . Transformation of Myth through Time. New York:
Harper & Row, 1990.
Carr~Gomm, Philip. The Druid Tradition. Shaftesbury, Dorset and Rockport,
Massachusetts: Element, 1991.
Croone, Brian R. Dennis W. Harcey. White~Man~Runs ~Him(Crow Scout With
Custer) Evanston, IL: Evanston Publishing, Inc. 1993.
Deloria Vine, Jr. Custer Died For Your Sins. New York, Avon Books, 1969.
Eastman, Charles A. (Ohiyesa). From Deep Woods To Civilization. Lincoln:
University of Nebraska Press, 1916.
---------------------. The Soul of the Indian. Lincoln: University of
Nebraska Press, 1980.
Ehrlich, Paul R. & Anne H. Healing the Planet. Reading, MA:
Addison-Wesley, 1991.
Fell, Barry. America B.C. New York: Simon & Schuster, Pocket Books, 1976.
Fire, John(Lame Deer) and Richard Erdoes. Lame Deer Seeker of Visions. New
York: Simon & Schuster, 1972.
Gallenkamp, Charles. Maya, The Riddle and Rediscovery of a Lost
Civilization-3d rev.ed. New York: Penguin, 1987.
Haught, James A. Holy Horrors. An Illustrated History of Religious Murder
and Madness. Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books,1990.
Hultkrantz, Ake. Native Religions of North America. San Francisco: Harper
Collins, 1987.
Johnson, Sandy and Dan Budnik. The Book of the Elders. San Francisco:
Harper Collins, 1987.
Keeney, Bradford. Shaking Our the Spirits. Barrytown, NY: Station Hill
Press, 1994.
Mails, Thomas. Fools Crow. Tulsa, OK: Council Oaks Books, 1991.
Manitonquat,(Medicine Story). Return to Creation. Spokane, WA: Bear Tribe
Publishing, 1991.
McGaa, Ed, EagleMan. Mother Earth Spirituality. San Francisco: Harper &
Row, 1990.
--------------------------. Rainbow Tribe. San Francisco: Harper Collins,
1992.
Medicine Eagle, Brooke. Buffalo Woman Comes Singing. New York:
Ballantine, 1991.
Miller David Humphreys. Custer's Fall: The Indian Side of the Story.
Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1957.
Morgan, Marlo. Mutant Message. Lees Summit, MO: MM Co., 1991.
Moore, Thomas. Care of the Soul: A Guide for Cultivating Depth and
Sacredness in Everyday Life. New York: Harper Collins, 1992.
Neihardt, John G. Black Elk Speaks. New York: William Morrow, 1932.
Reprint Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1957.
Powers, William K. Oglala Religion. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press,
1977.
----------------------. Sacred Language. Norman: University of Oklahoma
Press, 1986.
-------------------------------. Yuwipi. Lincoln: University of Nebraska
Press, 1982.
Ross, Allen Charles. Mitakuye Oyasin. Ft. Yates, ND: BEAR, 1989.
Sahtouris, Elisabet. Gaia, The Human Journey From Chaos to Cosmos. New
York: Simon & Schuster, 1989.
Sams, Jamie. Medicine Cards. Santa Fe: Bear & Co., 1988.
-------------------------. Sacred Path Cards. San Francisco: Harper
Collins, 1990.
------------------------------. Other Sacred Fires Were Here Before Ours.
San Francisco, Harper Collins, 1991.
Sandoz, Mari. Crazy Horse: The Strange Man of the Oglalas. Lincoln:
University of Nebraska Press, 1961.
Silverberg, Robert. The Mound Builders. Athens: Ohio University Press,
1970.
Standing Bear, Luther. My Indian Boyhood. Lincoln: University of Nebraska
Press, 1988.
Stolzman, William, S.J. How to Take Part in Lakota Ceremonies. Pine Ridge,
SD: Heritage Center, Red Cloud Indian School, 1986.
Sun Bear. Sun Bear: The Path Of Power. Spokane, WA: Bear Tribe
Publishing, 1983.
Unrau, William. The Kansa Indians. A History of the Wind People,
1673~1873. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1986.
Vanderwerth, W.C. Indian Oratory: Famous Speeches by Noted Chieftans.
Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1971.
Vestal, Stanley. WarPath: The True Story of the Fighting Sioux Told in a
Biography of Chief White Bull. Boston and New York: Houghton Mifflin,
1934.
------------------------. WarPath. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press,
1984.
Weatherford, Jack. Indian Givers. New York: Crown, 1988.
-----------------------. Native Roots. New York: Crown, 1991.
Ywahoo, Dhyani. Voices of Our Ancestors. Boston: Shambhala,1987.
Apple10
>matter in what we are discussing which was the fact that Cherokees use
>Crystals. He didn't shade this as it is someone who's family member is
>dine' has stated it as truth on this board. So whether you do not like or
>dislike the author presented, really holds no water with the discussion
>here.
>
>
Seeing the number of disagreements you are already involved in on this ng, I'm
a little hesitant to correct you---but-----
When a book has numerous factual errors or misinterpretations---which Mails
book does---one has to question any and all of his information and conclusions.
The issue here is whether the you can use this particular book in support of
your logic ir whether the errors which are found other sections make this
questionable. I am aware that some Cherokee did/do use crystals for a variety
of purposes but you need to use a more reliable reference to support your
argument.
mys...@dorsai.org
An old Scotman taught me that...Scotch is a whiskey and Scots the
nationality. Yeah, yeah, I know that there are Irish whiskeys, but
I've never heard of them being referred to simply as Irish; it's
always Irish whiskey or Scotch (whiskey optionally added on ;o) ).
Mark K. Bilbo
"Jim Mitchell" <Wolf...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>Why, I'll bet ya if we took all them letters and rearrainged them =
>differently, a couple of grants could have been written with all these =
>words by now to help some Native based programs...
I've written two and planning the third. You?
>
>Who cares who is what? Are they into your pocket? Have they taken your =
>last chunk of Frybread or something serious like that? =20
Nuagers perpetuate false stereotypes that are detrimental to the very
efforts you advise people to be doing.
>
>I ask ya, not to point blame or cause shame but to ask: When are we =
>going to start rowin in the same direction instead of clunking each =
>other over the head with our paddles? =20
Soon as people stop trying to steal what isn't theirs.
>
>The policy of divide and conquer the dominant society set upon us is =
>sure working it's evil here and will until we put aside our differences =
>and start figuring out just what the hell it is that we are doing here.
>
>Is it necessary? Is it kind?
No, it's not necessary nor kind to exploit Indian people and their
cultures.
Mark
Mark K. Bilbo
"Summer" <Summe...@Aol.Com> wrote:
>I would agree with this assessment---I was pretty disappointed with this
>book
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>There are many authors we could get into such as Neilhardt.
Boy are *you behind the times. AFAIC, Neihardt has been totally
discredited. You must have missed that one. But I'm betting the debate
wasn't published in the nuage section.
From where I sit, the man exploited Black Elk for his own uses and
appointed himself BE's "heir." Which is about as silly an idea as one can
get.
>I just gave
>references and included Mails. Because the author is christian is not of
>matter...
Of *course it matters. Culture *always matters.
>... in what we are discussing which was the fact that Cherokees use
>Crystals.
That isn't what the debate is about.
>He didn't shade this as it is someone who's family member is
>dine' has stated it as truth on this board. So whether you do not like or
>dislike the author presented, really holds no water with the discussion
>here.
It's not a matter of "like," it's a matter of accurate reporting,
motivation, cultural framework, and the like.
Mark
Randy R. Cox
Ha! Ha! Thanks!! I didn't have to venture too far in that direction
to get into trouble, did I? Ha! Just goes to show that assimilation
is an unbiased root disease. It destroys all roots, regardless of the
color! Nothing left but the "American", and if I strut that stuff
outside the borders of U.S. they'll no doubt let me know what a real
American is.
Because of all the sterotypes that exist in people's minds, they just
can't accept that it is traditional in some "American" families to
live in Cherokee "Tee Pees" with shamrock designs painted on the
plastic walls, and they laugh when they see my beige butt shining when
the wind lifts my plaid loincloth.
Us assimilated human beings got traditions just like other people--we
just don't know what they are! :-)
Oh, by the way, does anybody know what culture traditionally used
suspenders to hold up their loincloths? That's been in the family
since anyone can remember but no one knows where it came from.
They're not plaid, so there probably not Scottish. Could have been
one of those branches of the family that came and went in a hurry
leaving only this small cultural icon. :-(
Randy
Jan Kinney
jeanine r pinkney wrote:
> "Bob" says that every body function except one has been elevated to the
> status of sacrament in one religion or another. So in his "Church" he
> institutes the sacrament of Excermeditation. That's when you, um, give up
> something, it creates a vacuum inside. Then, if the top of your head is
> open, "Slack" can come in! that's why a lot of good ideas come in the
> bathroom.
>
> Ok, I'm done ...
And when you bless a loved one, include thanks and good wishes for the ability to let
go of what is no longer needed...
Thanks.
jk
Jan Kinney
little leather pants--lederhosen. A development from the original
suspenders/loincloth combination, adapted for the coolor climate of the
German Alps. Do your suspenders have the embroidered eidelweisses?
Decorum being so very important to Germans, they wanted to make extra sure
that nothing was left to chance. As my German grandma used to say:
"Cleanliness is Godliness, and Order is the first law of Heaven." I was an
adult before I found out that other people say "Cleanliness is *next to*
Godliness."
Tidily,
jk
jeanine r pinkney
<35e762e5...@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <6s8krf$4...@enews3.newsguy.com> <6sa535$gmr8$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> <6scd4f$e...@enews1.newsguy.com> <35ea16a8...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>:
Distribution:
As Official Internet Representative of the Wanabi Tribe, I, um, I, um...
am ROTFL!!!
Better watch out for that melting pot, it can burn ya real bad!!
HotDog!
jeanine r pinkney
Distribution:
**WARNING** MORE BATHROOM HUMOR -- Gee, I"m on a roll!
Yes indeed ... otherwise we'd all be like Walking Eagle, too fulla
something to fly!
Boyd Nystedt
>
>>In article <199808271908...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
jmca...@aol.com
>>(Jmcatron) writes:
>>
>>>So has anyone heard any good jokes lately?
>>>
>>>hahaha
>>>
>>>Ouia
blending the subjects of jokes and "cross-spirituality".....................
two indin guys were sittin' in the city jail. both had been brought up on
some serious trumped up charges. Both were very concerned about their
future and decided that they must pray for good fortune. One guy asks the
other if he know a good prayer. "Nope" says the second, "I wasn't brought
up traditional and I spent so much time in the city that I never learned how
to pray". "Me neither" says the first, "But for a while I lived under a
church and I heard them christians praying all the time. I guess we could
say one of their prayers. Let me see if I remember how they
pray............................ Oh One, Before, eyes heaven, N- 13, G- 12,
......................."
Kdawn
KDawn
Tootswee
grade...intelligent ...yes..medicine men ???????would never let either one of
them doctor me......Toots
tootswee
Tootswee
would never recognize them as Indian if you met them on the street
tootswee
WhiteHawk
of being "medicine men." They do, however, make reference that "all of us
have our own "Medicine," as well as our own lessons, challenges, and mean of
healing." Let me make myself clear here. I do not live by this book or any
other book. It is ONLY a book. I've read the book and found it
interesting. That's all, just an interesting book IMO. I would like to ask
if you've read their book, and if so, what did you think of it? After
seeing what others get as a result of admitting that they read a book, I
really hesitate in posting this, but am going to anyway. Thanks...
Dennis
Tootswee wrote in message
<199809051455...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Tootswee
that they are medicine men....but JT does profess to be one....all of us here
know this and those who have worked with him at various levels in Indian Health
Service do as well.....good that you have read the book....keep
reading...expanding the mind is being a path to greatness....Teresa
tootswee
WhiteHawk
Yea, I thought the book was interesting, but I do not know anything
about JT other than what the credits say. I don't guess they would be
putting anything negative about him in his own book, huh? lol
I am really glad to hear your suggestion about reading. I really try to
keep an open mind when reading and always try to remember that just because
it is in a book does not mean it is the truth. Something's just can't be
denied that they are correct, while other things are just too far fetched to
be anything but fabrication. I just finished reading a book called, "The
Wind is My Mother" by Bear Heart and thought it was also very interesting.
In fact, I really enjoyed reading that book and would recommend it. I am
also in the middle of reading "Cherokee Cavaliers" by Edward Everett Dale
and Gaston Litton. Are you familiar with this book? It contains 200
letters that cover about forty years of history of the old Cherokee Nation -
from Removal to the Civil War and into early Reconstruction. These are
letters from Stand Watie, Major Ridge, Elias C. Boudinot, John Ross, John
Waite, John Ridge, Andrew Jackson, etc. Basically, this book contains
letters wrote from both the Ridge side and the Ross side. I've not read it
all and in fact, have just recently started reading it.
Dennis
Tootswee wrote in message
<199809052139...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
WhiteHawk
>sources of sacred knowledge or any other kind of knowledge.
>to time.
>
>Taking sacred knowledge from a book and passing it off as one's own
>knowledge is another thing altogether. That's what makes people mad.
>
>Real sacred knowledge comes from primary sources such as experience,
>vision, and the (mouth to ear) teachings of one's elders. Occaisionally a
>person with such knowledge is supposed to pass it along. Then htis person
>must learn the right time, manner, and place in which to do so. A person
>in this position may misfire sometimes, pass the knowledge along wrongly
>and learn from his mistakes. But anyone with experiecne in these things
>can tell the difference between a person with real sacred knowledge who is
>struggling to pass it along rightly, and someone who is just plagarazing
>from a book.
>
>One problem with taking sacred knowledge from a book, is that written
>words can be so easily misunderstood. For example, look at how often
>people misunderstand each other's messages here in Usenet, and get into
>fights. Then sometimes they admit that they misunderstood each other's
>message, and they shake hands and make up, so to speak.
>
>If messages on Usenet can be misunderstood and lead to online friction,
>how much more can sacred messages in a book be misunderstood? Especially
>if the book was "ghost written" from the words of an elder who does not
>speak English as his or her primary language?
>
>For this and many other reasons, books should not be considered primary
>sources of sacred knowledge or any other kind of knowledge.
>
>Regards --
>JRP
jeanine r pinkney
Tootswee
will try to lay my hands on it and do so....have you read "Slavery Among the
Cherokee" by Theda Perdue.....it addresses such an interesting aspect of
Cherokee life that many never have given thought to...
.As far as the Garrett's go....I feel very strongly that they crossed the line
when they put into writing the sacred "secrets" which were supposedly bestowed
upon JT by an uncle of his. One does not talk of these things if they are
truly enlightened....I could go on and on.....Teresa
tootswee
jeanine r pinkney
my message I didn't mean to say books are no good. I"ve leared a lot from
books, ranging from calculus to how to train my dog. But books are
secondary sources, never to replace experience. I do'nt -really- know
calculus or dogtraining till I"ve successfully and consistently -done-
these things.
My -main- point in that message, was explaining why people get annoyed at
people who plagarise sacred knowledge from books (that probalby shouldn'at
have been written in the first place) and then get in a written forum such
as this and try to pass it off as their own. You can smell stale twinkies
from halfway around the world.
Writing sacred knowledge in a book is something that a great many people
frown on. This began several decades ago when people such as Lame Deer
and Black Elk truly felt that their People were dying, and wished to at
least be remembered in print. Then, when rumors of the People's death
turned out to be greatly exaggerated, these books spawned a buncha newage
scammers.
Yet it is true that the ancestral spirits choose whom they will. A book
containing sacred knowledge can be a source of confirmation to a lost bird
who is trying to make sense of something that he really ought to talk to
his grandparents about, only he'd have to go back about 3 or 4 generations
to find a grandparent who'd understand. But still such books are an
inferior source, used only as a matter of last resort. Many traidtionals
say that such books should not be written, and they have a great many good
reasons why. The only defense of such books is that they may help a lost
bird here and there. But for every lost bird they help there are a
million people who mistake reading a book for having the experience.
Dee aka JRP
WhiteHawk <Ayas...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> I do not understand, then go read up on it and sometimes gain a better =
> understanding as to why it happened the way it did. Personally, I can =
> see lots of situations where reading a book that is confirmed as a =
> "reliable source" could be beneficial. This, of course, is only my =
> opinion.
> Dennis
> ps This does not mean that I consider the Garrett's as a "reliable =
> source" of information. <s>
WhiteHawk
I will be on the lookout for "Slavery Among the Cherokee". I appreciate
the suggestions and your opinion. Wado.
Respectfully,
Dennis
Tootswee wrote in message
<199809060607...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
WhiteHawk
I understood what you wrote the first time. As far as the
misunderstanding goes, well, I know from my own experience the need I get
sometimes to explain in greater detail just what exactly I meant by the
words of a previous post. This is what just happened between you and I. I
felt like I had to explain what I meant and now you are explaining what you
meant and now I am explaining what I meant in the explanation of what I
originally meant and now you will feel the need to explain what your
explanation really meant and eventually somebody will probably get PO'd. It
does become aggravating after a while. I appreciate what you are saying and
can see your point clearly. Thanks for taking the time to explain what you
meant.
Dennis
jeanine r pinkney wrote in message <6su6qi$4...@junkie.gnofn.org>...
>> I do not understand, then go read up on it and sometimes gain a better =
>> understanding as to why it happened the way it did. Personally, I can =
>> see lots of situations where reading a book that is confirmed as a =
>> "reliable source" could be beneficial. This, of course, is only my =
>> opinion.
>
>> Dennis
>
fi...@digitalcave.com
"FALL" <Summe...@Aol.Com> wrote:
<snip>
> did a
> post on this, not too long ago in regards to Mails and Mooney and other
> authors of the kind....There were(and are) many authors who have put their
> own Christian views into some of these books. This is true! This can
> actually be dangerous when writing of a Peoples culture and history and
> such. But yet, I posted on something that happens to be fact and someone
> here who is Dine' stated it as such. Whether the source was a Christian
> holds no bearing IF it actually is truth. What would hold water would be if
> the author had said it wasn't because then he might be viewed as someone not
> putting all the truth in because he left out the crystals simply because his
> own religion didn't believe in them.
Dear SummerLynn,
The religious beliefs (and other background information regarding) of an
author should ALWAYS be taken into account. You evidently feel that
information written on Native religions by Christians is "valid." To put
that into perspective, it would be “just as valid” as a book on Christianity
written by a Hindu or a Norse Neo-Pagan. (Which is to say, it COULD BE
accurate, but it is almost certain to be less correct than one written by
either an actual Christian or at least someone raised within the
“Euro-Christian” cultural tradition. And any “religious ethnocentric
distortion” would certainly be greater in a book written by a priest than in
one written by a “lay person”).
In the case of Thomas Mails (a Christian minister), as has been stated
elsewhere, he DID NOT manage to avoid letting his research be biased by his
religious beliefs. “Picking and choosing sources to fit his beliefs” IS NOT
valid scientific research, contrary to your evident impressions. Mails
distorted Cherokee traditions, in part by relying heavily on some very
obviously corrupted sources of information, and by accepting as “genuine”
some traditions that were of non-Cherokee origin (some even of non-Indian
origin).
He also distorted the depiction of the ancient Cherokee by confusing their
way of life with that of the Muskogean people, due to the fact that the
Keetoowah Cherokee had picked up a certain degree of ancestry and religious
belief from Creek and Natchez Indians living among them. Mails seized apon
this thread of tradition relating to a stratified society with a "high
priest" and a central deity as being most similar to what he perceived the
early Judaic tribal society was (ie, as being most similar to the "primitive"
roots of his own religion).
<snip>
> As for these authors, well I had to go and ask someone who actually was
> an author for their opinion and it was given to me. I went to a friend of
> mine who is also a Lakota author by the name of Ed McGaa (Eagleman) because
> I know that if you ask 10 different people (Native) about "white" authors,
> or even this one in particular, you will find different responses. I
> suppose it can be said that everyone sees things from a different angle and
> view or even perspective as I indicated above in another paragragh. The
> author Ed McGaa(Eagleman) with whom I asked his opinion in regards to this
> author and other "white" authors. . .With permission from EagleMan, his
> response was "all these authors were slanted, except for a few and those are
> mentioned in the back of my books." He seems to feel that Mooney was as you
> proclaim with Mails in regards to "inaccuracy". This one particular
> author(Eagleman) feels Mooney is slanted besides being inaccurate. It must
> be remembered however, that it is only right to respect others opinions, and
> hope they allow us ours. You will note however, that he does indeed
> recommend Mails as a good author.
Mooney at least had the benefit of being able to interview living people who
remembered what life was like before the Trail of Tears disrupted traditional
Cherokee society almost beyond recognition. As such, many of his sources had
been taught by people born and raised into an even more pristine Cherokee
culture. Mails interviewed only Cherokee from the modern era, and even when
this included the traditionalist Keetoowahs it was NOT representative of the
old style Cherokee culture due to the admixture of Natchez and Creek elements
into their beliefs. (It also might not have been representative of the
Keetoowah as a whole, as he tended to deal most closely with individuals who
were willing to interact closely with the Christian Church, or who possessed
a mixture of Keetoowah and Christian beliefs). And as I recall, he did
little or no research among the Eastern Band, which might have balanced
things out more. (He also relied heavily on books, including unpublished
manuscripts written by Christian missionaries among the Cherokee....)
While some distortion and error exists in Mooney's books, it is surprisingly
minor considering when they were written. Evidently, the "purity of the
source material" helped make up for the fact that the sciences of
anthropology and ethnology were still in their infancy. Mails (who had even
less training than Mooney, had no such advantage).
> With permission, I have taken the books/authors he recommends for
> Native/Spirituality Reading, and will post them here for anyone who is
> interested in his recommendations. (* this does not reflect on my own
> thoughts or opinions)
> SUGGESTED READINGS
<snip>
> Ywahoo, Dhyani. Voices of Our Ancestors. Boston: Shambhala,1987.
This is a perfect illustration of how little credence should be placed on the
opinion of Ed McGaa(Eagleman),the author you consulted. You say that he
speaks well of Mails and denigates Mooney? Note that you also listed Dhyani
Ywahoo's book as one that he recommended for "Native/Spirituality Reading."
THAT BOOK IS ONE OF THE WORST PIECES OF NEW AGE BULLSHIT ON THE MARKET! (In
fact, there have been several posts made concerning it by a number of
different people). "Dhyani Ywahoo" is a thinblooded, possibly "Cherokee
lineal descendant" who took a mishmash of various Eastern religions (mostly
Hinduism) and tried to pass it off as "ancient Cherokee teachings from a
secret Ani-Kutani family." Her family has NOT backed up her claims, nor is
there any match between what she says, what was recorded in the past, and
what traditionalist Cherokees believe today.
Going by that example alone, it would indicate that if anything, you should
take Ed McGaa's suggestions and then DO THE REVERSE!
Sincerely (outraged at New Agers),
Wade Wofford.
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KDenn39
Thank you for the information on McGaa
Sani news
explosives on powerlines in Sweden.
Following below is a brief.
-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-<*>-
Sabotage against powelines
Two of Swedens 8 main powerlines have been sabotaged by a group that
call themselves "Actiongroup against the free smallgamehunting", a group
that has been unknown until monday September 14 when they sent letters
with a statement to several Swedish newspapers. In the letters the
author states that "Sweden have been messing enough with the Sami people
- the indigenous people of this country" and: "By turning off the
powergrid we show that this threat is serious".
The free smallgame hunting have been a controversial issue since 1992
when the government decided to allow non-natives to hunt on the
traditional huntinggrounds for the Sami people. The decision was viewed
as a provocation by the Sami´s, especially since it was taken one day
before the opening of the Sami parliament in Sweden.
More information is found at:
http://www.samefolket.se/index.htm
A.
Beau Bowen
> take Ed McGaa's suggestions and then DO THE REVERSE!
>
> Sincerely (outraged at New Agers),
>
> Wade Wofford.
Thanks for the info. Somebody loaned me a book of his, but I never could
quite bring myself to read it. Sad to say, even some Indians get hoodwinked
by this New Age junk.
Beau