in the same story of the great bear

[lucas]

is the sign virgo referring to Artemis?
lucas

[Kice Brown]

"lucas" <luc6...@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:3ee60db3$0$10831$ba62...@reader1.news.skynet.be...

> is the sign virgo referring to Artemis?
> lucas
>
>

from Theony Condos' "Star Myths of the Greeks and Romans" in which she
presents translations of _The Constellations_ of Pseudo-Eratosthenes and of
_Poetic Astronomy_ of Hyginus: Ps-Eratosthenes reports that Hesiod in the
_Theogony_ says that the constellation Virgo is Dike, daughter of Zeus and
Themis. He reports several other stories including that Virgo is Demeter
holding a sheaf of grain, or Isis or Atargatis or Tyche Hyginus reports
that Hesiod says the constellation Virgo is Themis whom Aratus called
Iustitia (Justice = Dike). Others say she is Fortuna (= Tyche) or Ceres (=
Demeter). or Erigone or Chrysothemis (a daughter of Apollo). Condos
herself writes "Between them, Ps-Eratosthenes and Hyginus provide seven
different identities for this constellation. Additional identities,
including Thespia, Eileithyia, Kore, Cybele, Athena, and Hecate, are
provided by later sources. The identification of this constellation figure
as a woman, most often a maiden, appears to have been borrowed by the Greeks
from the Babylonian tradition, which associated the constellation with the
maiden-aspect of the tripartite nature of the Great Mother Goddess.

[Dan Norder]

>Condos herself writes
[...]

>The identification of this constellation figure
>as a woman, most often a maiden, appears to
>have been borrowed by the Greeks from the
>Babylonian tradition, which associated the
>constellation with the maiden-aspect of the
>tripartite nature of the Great Mother Goddess.

Maiden aspect of the tripartite Great Mother Goddess?? The Babylonians
associated the constellation with a concept that wasn't invented until the late
19th and early 20th centuries??? Good trick that.

[Chris Siren]

lucas wrote:

>is the sign virgo referring to Artemis?
>lucas
>
>
>
>

Richard Hinkley Allen, in _Star Names, Their Lore and Their Meaning_
has her as both Proserpina and Demeter, as well as Ishtar, and for Persians
Khosha - the ear of wheat.

Chris Siren

[Kice Brown]

"Dan Norder" <dann...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030610161056...@mb-m03.aol.com...

Theony Condos cites RH Allen's _Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning_ "465"
for information on the Babylonian constellation figure. Since this is a
Dover reprint it may well be circa late 19th -- early 20th century. I'm
unfamiliar with the book myself. Chris Siren has mentioned Ishtar as "an
identity" of the Babylonian "Virgo" constellation, which seems consistent
with the intent at least of Dr. Condos's turn of phrase.

I've found another quote, this time from Cornelius and Devereux's _Secret
Language of the Starss and Planets_: [quote] From the periods of early
Mesopotamian and Egyptian cultures, Virgo has been protrayed as a female
figure associated with fertility. In Babylonian myth she represented
Ishtar, Queen of the Stars, also known as Ashtoreth. In his chronicles of
Anglo-Saxon England written in the 8th century AD, the Venerable Bede links
the goddess Astarte, related to Ashtoreth, with the Saxon fertility goddes
Eostre, who gives us the term "Easter". This was a matter of simple
observation. In Bede's time the stars of Virgo shone brightly in the night
skies of March and April, as the fertile growing season of the Northern
hemisphere commenced, and they remained visible until late summer to
guarantee the arrival of the harvest: ... [end quote]

[Odysseus]

Kice Brown wrote:
>
> "Dan Norder" <dann...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030610161056...@mb-m03.aol.com...
> > >Condos herself writes
> > [...]
> > >The identification of this constellation figure
> > >as a woman, most often a maiden, appears to
> > >have been borrowed by the Greeks from the
> > >Babylonian tradition, which associated the
> > >constellation with the maiden-aspect of the
> > >tripartite nature of the Great Mother Goddess.
> >
> > Maiden aspect of the tripartite Great Mother Goddess?? The Babylonians
> > associated the constellation with a concept that wasn't invented until the
> late
> > 19th and early 20th centuries??? Good trick that.
>
> Theony Condos cites RH Allen's _Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning_ "465"
> for information on the Babylonian constellation figure. Since this is a
> Dover reprint it may well be circa late 19th -- early 20th century. I'm
> unfamiliar with the book myself. Chris Siren has mentioned Ishtar as "an
> identity" of the Babylonian "Virgo" constellation, which seems consistent
> with the intent at least of Dr. Condos's turn of phrase.
>

Allen's book was originally published in 1899 as _Star-Names and
Their Meanings_. He refers to Virgo as "Maiden" (a fairly literal
translation of the name in several languages besides Latin, including
A.S. _Mæden_, Fr. _Vierge_, It. _Virgine_, Ger. _Jungfrau_, Gr.
_Korê_) but without reference to Trivia or any tripartite nature.
Citing Ovid and Aratos for her identification as Astræa. he says "she
is the oldest purely allegorical representation of innocence and virtue."

His discussion of Mesopotamian sources is on p. 463; after mentioning
Ishtar / Ashtoreth / Aphrodite, Allen says "the Sumerians of southern
Babylonia assigned this constellation to their sixth month as the
Errand, or Message, of Istar. [¶] In Assyria Virgo represented
Baaltis [with variants], Bel's wife ..." Again nothing is said of a
"Great Mother Goddess" beside the mention of these names.

--Odysseus

[Kice Brown]

"Odysseus" <odysseu...@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote in message
news:3EE8760C...@yahoo-dot.ca...

Thanks, Clearly the reference to "Mother-Goddess" was Condos' own
interpretation creeping in -- rather than just stating "Maiden-aspect" or
"Kore-aspect" . One might just as well refer to Apollon as being the
"ephebos-aspect" of the "Great Father-God", n'est-ce pas?

[Philip Anderson]

Kice Brown wrote in message ...

<snip>

>I've found another quote, this time from Cornelius and Devereux's
_Secret
>Language of the Starss and Planets_: [quote] From the periods of early
>Mesopotamian and Egyptian cultures, Virgo has been protrayed as a
female
>figure associated with fertility. In Babylonian myth she represented
>Ishtar, Queen of the Stars, also known as Ashtoreth. In his
chronicles of
>Anglo-Saxon England written in the 8th century AD, the Venerable Bede
links
>the goddess Astarte, related to Ashtoreth, with the Saxon fertility
goddes
>Eostre, who gives us the term "Easter". This was a matter of simple
>observation. In Bede's time the stars of Virgo shone brightly in the
night
>skies of March and April, as the fertile growing season of the Northern
>hemisphere commenced, and they remained visible until late summer to
>guarantee the arrival of the harvest: ... [end quote]

Bede certainly links the name Easter with a goddess Eostre, though this
is the only known reference to such a goddess and some scholars suspect
it may be a back-formation. I'm not sure whether Bede linked her name
(more likely connected with Eos & east anyway) with Astarte, or whether
that was a later idea, but it's worth noting that the quote given here
is also reminiscent of RH Allen's _Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning_
(p463). Bede's reference was actually in his _De Temporum Ratione_
rather than in his history, which suggests an indirect source.

--
hwyl/cheers
Philip Anderson
Cymru/Wales