what is
Razi Ingber
Bastet
Baphomet:
?
Christopher B Siren
Razi Ingber <zee...@compuvision.co.il> wrote:
>what is
>Bastet
- another name for Bast, an egyptian goddessoften depicted with the head
of a cat. See http://www.ixpres.com/netjert/bastet.htm among other
places.
>Baphomet:
- the name given to the demonic creature supposedly worshiped by the
Knights Templar. It is usually depicted as the head of a goat in a
pentacle, or as a man with long hair and a beard. The name is
most likely a corruption of Muhammad --> Mahomet --> Baphomet.
Chris Siren ICQ# 17091740
cbs...@cisunix.unh.edu http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren
Myths and Legends: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/myth.html
Gord's Greyhawk: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/gordmain.html
UNH Observatory: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/observatory.html
Katherine Griffis
Siren) wrote:
>In article <38404C04...@compuvision.co.il>,
>Razi Ingber <zee...@compuvision.co.il> wrote:
>>what is
<snip>
>>Baphomet:
>- the name given to the demonic creature supposedly worshiped by the
>Knights Templar. It is usually depicted as the head of a goat in a
>pentacle, or as a man with long hair and a beard. The name is
>most likely a corruption of Muhammad --> Mahomet --> Baphomet.
I might disagree with "Baphomet" as an allusion to Mohamed, Christopher.
Baphomet is usually associated with the Rams of Mendes manifestation
(Banebdjedet), and the names are fairly close originally for the
eventual corruption to "Baphomet." In Egyptian art, the ram is
represented in two distinct types, Ovis longpipes paleoaegyptica [used
primarily in the representations of Khnum, Osiris], and the Ram at
Mendes [Banebdjedet], with undulating horizontal long horns, and a heavy
build. In Herodotus, the latter was often described as a 'goat.'
Most of the ancient literature and evidence indicate that the Egyptians
worshipped rams, although sheep were considered ritually unclean. I am
not aware of any references to goats in the literature, except for
Herodotus' statement, and it is generally thought he mistook the Mendes
ram sacrifices for "goats."
Banebdjedet is a late syncretism, and the deity is stated only in the
birth story of Ramses III, which is late (Dyn. 20). In this case, the
god Tatanen, which is an earth deity (thus the confusion with Geb) is
referred to here. He is often seen as androgynous and/or as bisexual.
Tatanen was a chthonic deity of vegetation shown as a man with ram horns
and two feathers. Ptah and Tatanen were syncretized by the Old Kingdom
[sometimes called "Ptah-tanen"], but not with Banebdjedet until Dyn. 20.
Likely the confusion comes form the late association of Banebdjedet*
with the creator-god Khnum very late in Egyptian literature, which is in
the Chester Beatty I Papyrus [Contendings of Horus and Seth], in which
the god is claimed to "dwell in Setit" - which is identified as an
island Seheil located at the First Cataract of the Nile in Aswan. Since
Khnum's cult was located at nearby Elephantine, it is apparent that the
syncretism of the two different ram-gods had occurred by this period
(again, Dynasty 20). Khnum is a southern god, and Banebdjedet a god of
the northeastern Delta. They are distinct gods, which had their own
"families" of worship:
Banebdjedet/Hat-Mehit/Harpocrates
Khnum/Satis or Anuket as consort
* Banebdjedet literally means "Soul [manifestation] of the Lord of the
Djedet [Mendes]."
HTH.
Regards --
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
Member, American Research Center in Egypt
International Association of Egyptologists
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Special Studies
http://www.griffis-consulting.com
Reading mail from me in a Usenet group does not
grant you the right to send me unsolicited commercial e-mail.
All senders of unsolicited commercial e-mail will be
reported to their postmasters as Usenet abusers.
Razi Ingber
Christopher B Siren wrote:
> In article <38404C04...@compuvision.co.il>,
> Razi Ingber <zee...@compuvision.co.il> wrote:
> >what is
> >Bastet
> - another name for Bast, an egyptian goddessoften depicted with the head
> of a cat. See http://www.ixpres.com/netjert/bastet.htm among other
> places.
>
> >Baphomet:
> - the name given to the demonic creature supposedly worshiped by the
> Knights Templar. It is usually depicted as the head of a goat in a
> pentacle, or as a man with long hair and a beard. The name is
> most likely a corruption of Muhammad --> Mahomet --> Baphomet.
>
Thanks for answering.
My second question is:
what is the possible connection betwenn these two "creatures" to one another,
and the connection between baphomet bastet and the greek goddess artemis.
I already know that both artemis and bastet are somehow connected and
associated with the moon.
But what else?
Ivanovas/Milatos
you wrote:
<the Ram at
<Mendes [Banebdjedet], with undulating horizontal long horns
Have you ever seen a ram like that? Or were they goats???
Sabine in Crete (where rams look different - and goats, too ...)
Reinhard, Lysiane
Razi Ingber schrieb:
>
> what is
> Bastet
>
> Baphomet:
> ?
Hi,
Bastet is the goddess of joy and happiness in the egyptian mythology.
The egyptian priests see her in form of a cat, that's why in her town
Bubastis cats were mumified.
In which context did you hear about her?
Katherine Griffis
Hello Sabine --
Yes, in Egyptian art you see the distinction between the two quite a
bit, and yes, they are sheep and not goats. Patrick Houlihan in his
_Animal World of the Pharaohs_ [Thames and Hudson: London, 1996], pp.
21-22, points out that this type of sheep [Ovis longpipes
paleoaegyptica], also called ovis orientalis, which was non-fleece
producing, was native to the Egyptian Valley, and can be seen in its
"pure form" in the Mastaba of Ti at Saqqara, which is from the Old
Kingdom. I have placed an image of this scene online at
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/4914/ReschEgy/ovis-ti-ok.jpg
You can tell from the build of the rams themselves they are more massive
than goats, for example.
According to Houlihan, this breed was replaced over the centuries by the
more standard curved horn sheep, ovis aries, [or Ovis aries platyra
aegyptiaca (which makes up the representations of Amun, for example)],
which is probably from Western Asia, during the Middle Kingdom. By the
New Kingdom, it is thought that the standard curved horn sheep
predominated. However, the undulated horn ram was ingrained into
Egyptian imagery, and is particularly seen in representations of the
combined Ba of Osiris and Re in the Litany of Re, for example, See
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/4914/ReschEgy/litany-re-ovis.jpg
Houlihan also points out that after the demise of the undulated horn
style, the Egyptians still retained the imagery for deities, which is
why the Ram of Mendes and several deities are often shown with their
horns. Later art often shows animals (as well as occasionally deities'
and royal kings' headdresses) with combined horns of both species, but
Houlihan doubts such composite creatures actually existed. See such an
example of this composite ram creature at
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/4914/ReschEgy/ovis-qena-ptol.jpg
Hope this assists.
Ivanovas/Milatos
after having seen the figure you gave us (thanks for the effort - very
interesting, as well as your mail!) I understood better where the actual
problem in the Baphomet context is: as you wrote in your first mail the
Egyptian "goat-ram" with his undulating horns wears them >horizontally< -
and that is what makes it obvious he is a ram (my book about Cretan
shepherds 'Where Zeus became a man', about to appear in Athens, shows the
difference with modern Cretan rams - and by the way, the Cretan ewes often
wear horns, too!)
There is an ancient figurine from Ur (royal graves, gold, silver, Lapis,
stone and shell, from c. 2550 BC, London) depicting a male goat with
undulating horns that rise >vertically< (!!) from his head. And this kind of
goat must have been the prototype for Christian 'Satan', also called
'Beelzebub, a name going back to the ancient Semitic word for lord/god
'Ba'al', c.f. 'Ba'al Zaphon' (different spellings, traditionally associated
with animals, especially goats) the Canaanite first god of fertility who
became anathema with the Israelites in the 10th century (story of Jezebel)
if my sources are right. As Bel is supposed to have come into Egypt in the
15th cent. (did he?), maybe the two images somehow fit well iconographically
to help a certain syncretism... But as ancient religions all around Europe
worshipped goats/rams/bulls, the Phoenician god was welcome for Christians
to serve as the prototype of the Anti-Christ.
Another question, Katherine: I just came across the statement that the
notorious magic root (used for all kinds of black and white magic and
healing) of ancient Europe, mandrake (mandragora spec.) has been recognized
in an Egyptian wall painting (grave of the 18th Dynasty). Is that true? I
couldn't find any closer information or image of that painting, so I don't
know how much of this 'identification' is correct or just an interesting
fantasy of whoever. I'm just writing an article on possible depictions of
nightshade poisonings in Minoan art and would be very grateful for your
statement (I'm too far away from the right books to find it fast...)
Best wishes from Crete
Sabine Ivanovas
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
"Ivanovas/Milatos" <ivan...@agn.forthnet.gr> wrote:
<snip a bit>
> Another question, Katherine: I just came across the statement that the
> notorious magic root (used for all kinds of black and white magic and
> healing) of ancient Europe, mandrake (mandragora spec.) has been
recognized
> in an Egyptian wall painting (grave of the 18th Dynasty). Is that
true? I
> couldn't find any closer information or image of that painting, so I
don't
> know how much of this 'identification' is correct or just an
interesting
> fantasy of whoever. I'm just writing an article on possible
depictions of
> nightshade poisonings in Minoan art and would be very grateful for
your
> statement (I'm too far away from the right books to find it fast...)
Hello again, Sabine:
Sorry for the delay in answering, but am answering away from my office
at the moment, which explains why my information is not as complete as
I would like. Sounds like a very interesting article you have there,
BTW.
Mandrakes were known in Egyptian paintings primarily in flower form
(there's a rather famous scene of Ankhsenamun offering lotus and
mandrake flowers to Tutankhamun, which was located on the top of a
chest found within his tomb), and the meaning in such scenes is usually
erotic. The species of the plant has been distinguished to a certainty
by several botains and Egyptologists, so I don't think it's guesswork
on anyone's part. However,I am not clear this is the same imagery as
found in Minoan art. However, note my reference to Nunn, below.
There are two excellent books on the subject of plants and their uses
in ancient Egyptian culture you may wish to review. The first is
called _Pharaoh's Flowers: the Botanical Treasures of Tutankamun_
(1990), by Nigel Hepper, which details each and every flowering plant
depicted in Tutankhamun's tomb, and their uses; therefore, the mandrake
and its use would be most certainly discussed. The second would be the
_Garden in Ancient Egypt_ (1998), by Alix Wilkinson, which discusses
plants, to a lesser extent, in a similar vein.
Lise Manniche has also written two books which may be helpful in your
research on this plant -- _An Ancient Egyptian Herbal_ (1989) and
_Sacred Luxuries : Fragrance, Aromatherapy, and Cosmetics in Ancient
Egypt_ (1999). I feel sure that Manniche covers the use of mandrake in
ancient Egypt.
For the medicinal use of mandrakes, check out John Nunn's _Ancient
Egyptian Medicine_ (1996). While I don't have this volume before me, I
am sure if ancient Egyptian medical papyri used mandrake as a
drug/poison, Nunn would have it listed there.
William Emboden also wrote several articles for medical journals on the
psychoactive use of particular plants in ancient Egypt, particularly
the blue lotus, but also covering other plants as well. I will check
those articles when I return to my office later this week and let you
know if the mandrake is discussed. If so, I will forward those titles
to you as well.
HTH.
Regards --
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
Member, American Research Center in Egypt
International Association of Egyptologists
Univ. of Alabama at Birmingham,Special Studies
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Razi Ingber
"Reinhard, Lysiane" wrote:
I heard it in a song called the principle of evil made flesh by cradle of
filth.
there's a line there:
"
To the name of Baphomet:
Artemis, Bastet, Astarte
"
and i wanted to know who were all these beings , and how are they
related.
(if at all , they are)
Razi