Was El A Sumerian God?
Jake Kebobshaw
asta...@flash.net,
I am cross posting this message from alt.religion.angels,
to alt.magick, and alt.mythology, because alt.religion.angels
is a small pond in the usenet universe, and these other groups
may have some experts than can help us.
You posted that El was a Sumerian God.
When I replied, I said that I believed El was one of
chief Gods of Canaan.
You replied saying that you knew which books I used,
and that these books were flawed.
You also criticized me for referring to web pages.
Could you please tell me specifically which books,
and web pages that I used are flawed?
Anyway, let's continue.
Are you saying that El was a major Sumerian deity, or
are you saying that El is more a title, than a name,
like the title, Ba`al?
Which books, and sources of information are you using
for reference purposes?
I will look for these at the local libraries.
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jake Kebobshaw
By the way, I believe that one of your favorite male spirits,
listed in the Goetia as Astaroth, was actually the Canaanite Goddess
Astarte (In Greek). The name in Ugaritic was Athtartu, according
to my flawed sources.
--
Jake Kebobshaw
Spiritual Credentials: Personally trained by New Age Guru, and
Spiritual Master, Lord Leroy The Radiant, from the Tibetan monastery,
via Detroit, Michigan.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Aslannd
still unclear.It was the common designation for God in all Semitic
languages,from the old Sumerian period to the Arabic[Allah]. In the Ugaritic
myths,EL like the Sumerian God An,represents divine authority and cosmic
order.He is the father of all Gods [with the exception of Baal who is called
the son of Dagon]and like Enlil in Mesopotamia,the source of royal power.He
is the seen as the father of mankind and has some connection with human
fertility and childbirth.His relationship with Baal is ambiguous, and the
Baal myths in particular show that there is tension between them.
"Jake Kebobshaw" <jakeke...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8btgkd$cji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Christopher B Siren
>
>When I replied, I said that I believed El was one of
>chief Gods of Canaan.
>
>You replied saying that you knew which books I used,
>and that these books were flawed.
>
>You also criticized me for referring to web pages.
>
>Could you please tell me specifically which books,
>and web pages that I used are flawed?
>
>Anyway, let's continue.
>
>Are you saying that El was a major Sumerian deity, or
>are you saying that El is more a title, than a name,
>like the title, Ba`al?
From what I have seeen, El, like Baal, is both the name of a deity, and a
title. While the word El (or Il) can refer to a god, as in Western
Semetic languages like Ugaritic and Hebrew, it also refers to a specific
deity, one of the chief Ugaritic gods. El is not a Sumerian
deity. Thematically, El is somewhat similar in character to the
Babylonian Anu or the Sumerian An, but linguistically, and to some extend
thematically as well, El appears to me to be more related to the
Babylonian Ellil and the Sumerian Enlil. (Note also that neither Ellil
nor Enlil were exclusively Babylonian or Sumerian names for those
deities.) En-lil translates generally as "lord of the lil", where lil is
basically the air, the winds or the atmosphere. In this sense the name
too is a title or a description - but it did refer to a specific deity.
>Which books, and sources of information are you using
>for reference purposes?
>
>I will look for these at the local libraries.
>I look forward to your reply.
As for me, books I have used for this, as well as further information on
the Canaanite, Babylonian, and Sumerian pantheons can be found in their
respective FAQ's at:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/canaanite-faq.html
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/assyrbabyl-faq.html
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/sumer-faq.html
Chris Siren ICQ# 17091740
cbs...@cisunix.unh.edu http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren
Myths and Legends: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/myth.html
Jake Kebobshaw
Christopher Siren,
Thank you for sharing from your research, and studies.
I have read a few of your web pages in the past,
and you are to be commended.
Take care,
Jake Kebobshaw
richard sprigg
> to alt.magick, and alt.mythology, because alt.religion.angels
> is a small pond in the usenet universe, and these other groups
> may have some experts than can help us.
>
Likely they are confusing the supreme god of Sumer, "Enlil" with "El".
The excavations at Nippur suggest an ongoing worship of Enlil that
lasted from the 5th millenium bc until the 8th century.
>
> When I replied, I said that I believed El was one of
> chief Gods of Canaan.
This is essentially correct. "El" was the name of the Canaanite God, as
evidenced by numerous artifacts and other evidence.
>
> You replied saying that you knew which books I used,
> and that these books were flawed.
>
> You also criticized me for referring to web pages.
That is silliness.
There are excellent academic resources on the web: for example the
Rutgers VRI. In most cases the posted articles have excellent
bibliographies for further study.
Go to http://religion.rutgers.edu/vri/index.html
and have a ball.
>
> Could you please tell me specifically which books,
> and web pages that I used are flawed?
>
> Anyway, let's continue.
>
> Are you saying that El was a major Sumerian deity, or
> are you saying that El is more a title, than a name,
> like the title, Ba`al?
It appears to have meant "God".
Whether this was a title or a name is moot.
>
> Which books, and sources of information are you using
> for reference purposes?
>
> I will look for these at the local libraries.
> I look forward to your reply.
>
> Regards,
> Jake Kebobshaw
>
> By the way, I believe that one of your favorite male spirits,
> listed in the Goetia as Astaroth, was actually the Canaanite Goddess
> Astarte (In Greek). The name in Ugaritic was Athtartu, according
> to my flawed sources.
Perhaps. She was certainly the Babylonian Goddess Ishtar, who seems to
have been the direct descendant of the Sumerian Inanna.
Jaxom
experience by magicians (see "Pacts with the Devil" by S. Jason Black and
Christopher Hyatt, Ph.D., both notable magicians) is in every way a male
demonic entity. Astarte, Ishtar, and Innana were all female dieties of sex,
love, and war.
Jake Kebobshaw <jakeke...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8btgkd$cji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Mister Rofocale De Angeles,
> asta...@flash.net,
>
> I am cross posting this message from alt.religion.angels,
> to alt.magick, and alt.mythology, because alt.religion.angels
> is a small pond in the usenet universe, and these other groups
> may have some experts than can help us.
>
>
> By the way, I believe that one of your favorite male spirits,
> listed in the Goetia as Astaroth, was actually the Canaanite Goddess
> Astarte (In Greek). The name in Ugaritic was Athtartu, according
> to my flawed sources.
>
Carl KICE Brown
Kice here: from my "ancient" (circa 1940) _Westminster Dictionary of the
Bible_, quoting the entry for Ashtaroth: (plural of Ashtoreth (qv)) In
connection with the plural of Baal, a general designation for the female
divinities of the Canaanites; or perhaps, to judge from Gen 14:5 & I Sam
31:10, the plural of majesty, whereby the goddess Ashtoreth was
honorably spoken of in the plural number. [END QUOTE] Now to quote
entry for Ashtoreth: (S. Arab. _'athara_, to be rich, to irrigate,
whence perhaps the reflexive _'athtar_, the self-waterer, a spring).
Astarte, a goddess of the Phoenicians and Canaanites. The name occurs
in South Arabic as 'Athtar, a god identified with the planet Venus. In
the Ras Shamra tablets are found the masculine 'Athtar and the feminine
'Athtart. In the Amarna letters this goddess is known as Ashtartu. In
Babylonia Ishtar, whose name is cognate with Astarte (Ashtart), was
identified with Venus. She was the goddess of sexual love, maternity,
and fertility. Prostitution as a religious rite in the service of this
goddess under various names is widely attested. The identification of
'Ashtart with Aphrodite is evidence of her sexual character. She also
appears as a war-goddess in Assyria and Babylonia; cf. placing the armor
of Saul as a trophy in the temple of the Philistine Ashtaroth (I Sam
31:10). Her worship was early established at Sidon, hence she is called
the goddess of the abomination of the Sidonians (I Kings 11:5, 33; II
Kings 23:13). It was in vogue e. of the Jordan in the days of Abraham
(Gen 14:5). As early as the time of Judges it had spread to the Hebrews
(Judg 2:13; 10:6). Solomon in his old age gave it the support of his
great name (I Kings 11:5; II Kings 23:13). The pronunciation of the
name as Ashtoreth instead of Ashtareth is believed to express the
loathing felt for idolatry, by conforming the sound to that of _bosheth_
(shame).
--
Kice, writing from Lone Tree
"There are things we do not understand.
Yet they exist nonetheless." -- Lt. Worf
Gnome d Plume
<jakeke...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Mister Rofocale De Angeles,
>asta...@flash.net,
>
>I am cross posting this message from alt.religion.angels,
>to alt.magick, and alt.mythology, because alt.religion.angels
>is a small pond in the usenet universe, and these other groups
>may have some experts than can help us.
>
>You posted that El was a Sumerian God.
>
>When I replied, I said that I believed El was one of
>chief Gods of Canaan.
>
>You replied saying that you knew which books I used,
>and that these books were flawed.
>
>You also criticized me for referring to web pages.
>
>Could you please tell me specifically which books,
>and web pages that I used are flawed?
>
>Anyway, let's continue.
>
>Are you saying that El was a major Sumerian deity, or
>are you saying that El is more a title, than a name,
>like the title, Ba`al?
>
>Which books, and sources of information are you using
>for reference purposes?
>
>I will look for these at the local libraries.
>I look forward to your reply.
>
>Regards,
>Jake Kebobshaw
>
>By the way, I believe that one of your favorite male spirits,
>listed in the Goetia as Astaroth, was actually the Canaanite Goddess
>Astarte (In Greek). The name in Ugaritic was Athtartu, according
>to my flawed sources.
****Jake:
You are right. El, or Latipan, is the Father God of the Canaanite
Pantheon. Ashtaroth is the Canaanite Goddess Astarte.
Come visit The Order of The Temple of Astarte if you are interested in
a modern recreation of ancient Canaanite religion.****
Gnome d Plume
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/welcome.html
richard sprigg
>
> 'Athtart. In the Amarna letters this goddess is known as Ashtartu. In
> Babylonia Ishtar, whose name is cognate with Astarte (Ashtart), was
> identified with Venus. She was the goddess of sexual love, maternity,
> and fertility.
And, interestingly, of war: an attribute that seems to have been
inherited from Inanna.
AlbanBurger
she's really hot to most fans...
so El is a Sumerian Goddess...
The way is culture. To learn eternity through ART. Then you will start
to feel what is The Lord's and what is not.
ftp://rmp3:prog...@24.4.21.182/RMP3/
http://www.bwgen.com
deja.com is an archive
beware of gorgons posing as gods.
AlbanBurger
>Elle McPherson is the current avatar of El...
>
>she's really hot to most fans...
>
>so El is a Sumerian Goddess...
>
I am serious about this...not the Elle McPherson joke...that El is a
goddess...just like "God" in the bible is ruach elohim...a girl ghost...I can't
show proofs though....its top secret stuff at the Pentagon..."Pentagon" will
kill me...
http://www.erowid.org/library/periodicals
Prophet 718
alban...@aol.com (AlbanBurger) wrote:
> Elle McPherson is the current avatar of El...
>
> she's really hot to most fans...
>
> so El is a Sumerian Goddess...
There is evidence that EL may have been of the
feminine mystique. EL SHADDAI in Hebrew is commonly interpreted as GOD
ALMIGHTY, with EL meaning GOD and SHADDAI meaning ALMIGHTY. Some
scholars believe the linguistic root of SHADDAI actually means NOURISHER
or MANY-BREASTED, lending credence to the interpretation of EL SHADDAI
as a female deity.
--
Prophet 718
I am the Magician and the Exorcist. I am the axle of the wheel, and the
cube in the circle.
``Come unto me'' is a foolish word: for it is I that go.
--
Prophet 718
I am the Magician and the Exorcist. I am the axle of the wheel, and the
cube in the circle.
``Come unto me'' is a foolish word: for it is I that go.