Ragnarok
Jack Jubala
I was wondering if anyone in this group knows if the Norse myths are the only
ones that end with the destruction of the gods? I am not sufficiently versed in
world mythology to know this, though certainly in Western mythology this seems
to be the only case of such all-out destruction. And also, why the Norse? I was
always impressed by how much those gods and goddesses seemed to love each
other. Of course, as in the Christian myth, in order to balance the "God of
Love" we have the Book of Revelation. Perhaps that is it.
In any event, I look forward to your learned replies.
Jack
****************************************************
"We are put on earth for a little space,
to learn to bear the beams of love."
-William Blake
Christopher B Siren
Jack Jubala <jju...@aol.comYADDA> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was wondering if anyone in this group knows if the Norse myths are the only
>ones that end with the destruction of the gods? I am not sufficiently versed in
>world mythology to know this, though certainly in Western mythology this seems
>to be the only case of such all-out destruction. And also, why the Norse? I was
>always impressed by how much those gods and goddesses seemed to love each
>other. Of course, as in the Christian myth, in order to balance the "God of
>Love" we have the Book of Revelation. Perhaps that is it.
Destruction of deities and rebirth is not entirely uncommon. In
Mesopotamia, a number of the old gods, led by Tiamat are destroyed by
Marduk and a new universal order is set up. In Classical mythology, the
Olympians battle with the Titans - an older set of deities - and also set
up a new cycle that way. Of course, in these two cases, the battle and
recovery has already happened an the casualties on the side of the "good
guys" are light. In Hinduism, however, we are currently withn the Kali
Yuga and at the end of this epoch, Kalki, the tenth avatar of Vishnu, will
appear with a blazing sword and riding a white horse to "re-establish a
golden age, punish the evildoers, comfort the virtuous, and then destroy
the world. Later from the ruins of the earth a new mankind will arise." -
_The Myths and Gods of India_ by Alain Danielou p. 181
As for why the Norse? Well personally, I blame Loki. He's such a
cunning bastard. Or maybe the blame should fall to the Norns for making
Loki the way he is - that and making the Aesir so reckless as to throw a
party and put Baldr's invulnerability to the test.
Chris Siren ICQ# 17091740
cbs...@cisunix.unh.edu http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren
Myths and Legends: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/myth.html
UNH Observatory: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/observatory.html
Xeva438
>Yuga and at the end of this epoch, Kalki, the tenth avatar of Vishnu, will
>appear with a blazing sword and riding a white horse to "re-establish a
>golden age, punish the evildoers, comfort the virtuous, and then destroy
>the world. Later from the ruins of the earth a new mankind will arise." -
>_The Myths and Gods of India_ by Alain Danielou p. 181
It is not universally agreed upon by all Hindus that we are within the Kali
Age, for there are sub-cycles withing larger cycles, and some say we are now
ascending in the third, or Dvapara Age and that we've been in it since the
year 1699.
Vik
Ceallaigh S.
Would anyone care to enlighten me further on the subject of the 'Kali Age?'
My field is Celtic Studies/Ethnomusicology, so I have very little knowledge
regarding Hindu belief systems.
Thanks!
Ceallaigh
Xeva438
>My field is Celtic Studies/Ethnomusicology, so I have very little knowledge
>regarding Hindu belief systems.
>
Briefly: Kali is one of the four yugas, or cycles, according to Hindu
cosmogony; the others, in order, are Satya or Krita, Treta, and Dvapara. Satya
Yuga is 9,600 years, Treta is 4,800; Dvapara is 2400 and Kali is 1200; light,
righteousness, honesty and virtue are prevalent amongst makind in full during
the Satya Yuga, but are proportinately lessened in each successive age;
therefore, the people of the Kali Yuga possess only 1/4 of the possible
righteousness than people had during the Satya Yuga, and only one in four is
honest. The majority of mankind is greedy, lustful, materialstic and wicked;
some argue that we are in Kali Yuga right now, but others claim we have
finished Kali Yuga and are now back in Dvapara Yuga. (There is a general
agreement, however, that this last Kali Yuga comenced at the end of the
Mahabharata War.) These yugas or cycles are divided into greater cycles, called
manvantaras (off the top of my head), and those are divided into even greater
ones; this entire Universe has a life-cycle just as individuals do, and at its
end all the gods except Brahma, the Creator, (and Shiva & Vishnu, of course)
along with all humans, animals, spirits, etc will persh in a great flood/many
fires that will cause a great dissolution. One life-cycle for the Universe (I
believe its called a Kalpa, but my memory is failing me) is equal in time to
one *day* in the life of Brahma; just as you have to go to work everyday,
Brahma's work everyday consists of creating a new Universe. At the end of his
"day," Shiva (the Destroyer) destroys the Universe; needless to say, Brahma's
lifetime is supposed to be very, very, very long, something along the lines of
however-many bilions or trillions of years!!
A note here: what many people forget is that the Yugas progress in a cyclical
manner, like the seasons; hence there have been many cycles of the Yugas, and
the final dissolution (and is not supposed to occur after the completion of
*every* Kali Yuga: on the other hand, the cycle reverses itself at the end of
Kali and is followed by an upward climb towards Satya agan; therefore the
upward order is Kali, then Dvapara, Treta and finally Satya. There are supposed
to be "transition" periods between the proper yugas began as well, and these
vary in length; for example, there is a transition age between Satya and Treta,
Treta and Dvapara, etc. The cycles are supposed to be synchronized with the
precession of the equinoxes (right now the vernal equinox is in Pisces, not
Aquarius - hence we're not in the "Aquarian Age" anyway), and with the
revolution of our solar system around the center of our galaxy (the
"Vishnuabhi"), as well as the revolution of our Sun around its invisible dark
counterpart; as our solar system comes closer to the center of the galaxy, we
recieve more of its spiritual light and hence, righteousness & knowledge are
increased on Earth. How did the Hindus equate the timing with actual
astronomical cycles that are observable with modern telescopes? I don't know,
but I guess thats a different post; irs an interesting point to consider,
nonetheless - even totally atheist Western astronomers such as Carl Sagan have
expressed their wonderment at the scale of Hindu time cycles. A great source to
read more on these cycles, however, is David Frawley's classic "Astrology of
the Seers," which goes in detail about
A good comparison is always made with the four Hindu yugas and the four Ages of
Mankind in Ovid's Metamorphosis or Hesoid's Ages in Works & Days; I'd guess the
yugas are simply the Indian counterparts to the Greek Golden, Silver Bronze and
Iron Ages, respectively. Check these accounts for more detail on the Greek
Ages.
Vik
Jack Jubala
>Destruction of deities and rebirth is not entirely uncommon. In
>Mesopotamia, a number of the old gods, led by Tiamat are destroyed by
>Marduk and a new universal order is set up. In Classical mythology, the
>Olympians battle with the Titans - an older set of deities - and also set
>up a new cycle that way. Of course, in these two cases, the battle and
>recovery has already happened an the casualties on the side of the "good
>guys" are light.
I knew about the Titans and Olympians, but for the reason you already gave, I
didn't think it parallel to Ragnarok. I don't know Mesopotamian myth. That was
interesting.
In Hinduism, however, we are currently withn the Kali
>Yuga and at the end of this epoch, Kalki, the tenth avatar of Vishnu, will
>appear with a blazing sword and riding a white horse to "re-establish a
>golden age, punish the evildoers, comfort the virtuous, and then destroy
>the world. Later from the ruins of the earth a new mankind will arise."
>-
>_The Myths and Gods of India_ by Alain Danielou p. 181
This sounds a litle bit more like the Christian myth, as at least ONE of the
gods survive.
>
>As for why the Norse? Well personally, I blame Loki. He's such a
>cunning bastard. Or maybe the blame should fall to the Norns for making
>Loki the way he is - that and making the Aesir so reckless as to throw a
>party and put Baldr's invulnerability to the test.
>
>Chris Siren
Yes, Loki is somewhat unique, isn't he? Coyote comes close in the Native
American cast of mythic characters, but the sheer destructiveness of Loki
coupled with his cunning may be the prescription for Impending Doom. Yet he
could be an affable guy as well. Remember when he and Thor went searching for
the hammer Mjollnir together? Even got Thor to dress like a woman! But, that
also fits the cunning, doesn't it.
In any event, thank you very much for your reply.
Freya233
common ground between the Celtic music and some of the revived Nordic music
comingout of Scandinavia?
Maybe it's just my Swedish ear, but I really dohear melodic and rhythmic links
between the two. I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
Freya