Hatred in the Yes fold
LORNE MURPHY
on the _Union_ tour didn't speak one word to each other the WHOLE
tour! Not even "Good morning", he pointed out. I am curious. Who
does he mean?
Near as I can figure, Howe does not get along with Kaye. This seems
the more logical choice. But, knowing Yes, there could be several
sets of enemies.
I strongly doubt that Wakeman or White have any problems with
anybody. Perhaps Squire/Bruford? I know that Bruford doesn't much
care for Squire anymore... or at least, that's what I've been led to
believe.
Who could it be?
Lorne Murphy
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
Bill Wade
:In a 1992 interview, Rick Wakeman reported that certain individuals
:on the _Union_ tour didn't speak one word to each other the WHOLE
:tour! Not even "Good morning", he pointed out. I am curious. Who
:does he mean?
Squire & Bruford is the obvious choice. It could also be Howe/Rabin, or
Howe/Kaye. I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but I
suppose it could have been damn near anybody by the time the tour ended.
Damon M. Fibraio
the Yes camp?
I am not aware that all the guys are ready to kill each other? Squire/Bruford?
Howe Kay
howe Raben?
Anderson fighting with anybody?
What about Wakeman or Kay? Somebody tell me what's going on.
We almost need a soap opera for Yes? As the Relayer turns or somethintg.
Rhea A Frankel
: Quoth LORNE MURPHY on Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:56:00 GMT:
What was the deal with Howe and Kaye? I don't remember hearing anything
about them having a problem with each other. Then again, I hadn't heard
anything to the contrary either.
Rhea Frankel
Jay
(Damon M. Fibraio) wrote:
> Maybe somebody can enlighten me as to all the fighting that has gone on in
> the Yes camp?
The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
me. I've heard that Bruford doesn't like Squire, but I can't imagine
why--he gets along pretty well with Howe, though (though apparently not so
well with Wakeman, who he once described as being pretty disconnected from
ABWH, while he and Howe worked pretty closely together). I guess I'm just
being a gossip here, so don't take any of this seriously--it's just
speculation.
Bill Wade
>What was the deal with Howe and Kaye? I don't remember hearing anything
>about them having a problem with each other. Then again, I hadn't heard
>anything to the contrary either.
Supposedly, they had a rough relationship from the beginning. As I understand
it, Kaye was the one who first saw Howe and thought he'd be good for the band.
Apparently, Howe was using a more raw guitar approach then and that's what
Tony liked. Then, when he joined, he changed to the sound we hear on _TYA_,
which apparently po'd Kaye somewhat. This bust-up was one of the factors
in Kaye's departure.
That's the story *I* heard. Henry or someone else may know more.
Eric Smith
: In article <4flspc$1...@monmouth.edu>, s006...@hawkmail.monmouth.edu
: (Damon M. Fibraio) wrote:
What about Squire and Wakeman? Seems to be a lot of bad blood there.
Yann Clochec
jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay) wrote:
>In article <4flspc$1...@monmouth.edu>, s006...@hawkmail.monmouth.edu
>(Damon M. Fibraio) wrote:
>
>> Maybe somebody can enlighten me as to all the fighting that has gone on
>> in the Yes camp?
>
>The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
>me.
Logical idea though. On the tune of "This town ain't big enough for the
both of us".....
>I've heard that Bruford doesn't like Squire, but I can't imagine
>why
Broof made it plainly clear is a later interview that he considers Squire
to have lost all creativity and to have become some sort of fat lazy punk.
Nothing "personal", but said with Broof's inimitable dry wit, that hurts.
And he also considers White to be a lousy drummer. And all he liked in
_ABWH_/_Onion_ was the big bucks to fund Earthworks.
>--he gets along pretty well with Howe, though (though apparently not so
>well with Wakeman, who he once described as being pretty disconnected from
>ABWH, while he and Howe worked pretty closely together).
Interpersonal relations is Yes have always been somewhat of a puzzle,
mainly due to Little Jon's changing affections. Squire, Howe, Wakeman and
Rabin each had their turn. In early Yes, Peter Banks seems to have been
left pretty much aside by the others. And Little Jon does not seem to have
got along that well with Pat Moraz. And Broof himself is something of a
puzzle of his own. In the _YesYears_ video, he seems to have a witty
something to say about all others, perhaps to demonstrate that *he* is
the best....
>I guess I'm just
>being a gossip here, so don't take any of this seriously--it's just
>speculation.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Frog In The White Car - Knight Commander, Order of the Panther - Soundchaser and Cirkusmaster
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The girls is all salty, the boys is all sweet, the food ain't too shabby an' they piss in the streets
In France, way down in France, way on down, way on down in France - Frank Zappa
Steven Sullivan
: In article <4flspc$1...@monmouth.edu>, s006...@hawkmail.monmouth.edu
: (Damon M. Fibraio) wrote:
: > Maybe somebody can enlighten me as to all the fighting that has gone on in
: > the Yes camp?
: The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
: me. I've heard that Bruford doesn't like Squire, but I can't imagine
: why--he gets along pretty well with Howe, though (though apparently not so
: well with Wakeman, who he once described as being pretty disconnected from
: ABWH, while he and Howe worked pretty closely together). I guess I'm just
: being a gossip here, so don't take any of this seriously--it's just
: speculation.
I don't know that BB doesn't like Squire, the man, but he's made it clear
that he finds Squire, the musician, a bit wanting in the creativity
department. Also, he complains that Squire takes too long to do
anything (a complaint he's been making since at least the 70's.)
Michael Lord
: Quoth Rhea A Frankel on 11 Feb 1996 17:25:10 GMT:
In an interview around BG time, I remember Kaye mentioning that Howe didn't
really know about how to share space within a song. I think Kaye was upset
about Howe playing over his parts on The Yes Album.
Mike Lord
"Shop smart...Shop S-Mart!"
YESFAN1046
jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay) writes:
> I've heard that Bruford doesn't like Squire, but I can't imagine
>why--
<snip>
> I guess I'm just being a gossip here, so don't take any of this
seriously--it's just
>speculation.
In the following interview Bill speaks of his fondness for Chris.
YESFAN1046
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
From Anil Prasad's Interviews-Interview with Bill Bruford date: July 7/92
AP: Here's a question you'll despise. The acrimony between you and
Chris Squire has been tossed around the press ad nauseum, do you
want to talk about the origins of that? If you don't want to that's
ok... <p>
BB: (huge pause) Well, he represents pretty much everything I don't
represent in music. He's a difficult guy. He's slow, pedantic, very
politically-orientated, he doesn't generate that much music and he
certainly doesn't generate it easily. It's all a looooooong, drawn,
slow process. So he's not my favourite musician to work with. But,
I can work with anybody, if I have to (laughter and then a pause).
Not my bass player of choice. <p>
From:
Anil Prasad's INNERVIEWS®
http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad/
Dave Owen
I don't know about bad blood, but certainly blood that's been strongly
diluted with Vodka and Brown Ale respectively.
Dave "But then who am I to talk ?" Owen
--
Dave Owen - International Computers Limited - Bracknell, United Kingdom
+44 344 472724 (ICL ITD 7263 2724)
* I adore autographs, endorsements, marks and imprints: I'm a signature-phile *
Samuel H Theiner
>Bill Wade (gr...@vt.edu) wrote:
>
>In an interview around BG time, I remember Kaye mentioning that Howe didn't
>really know about how to share space within a song. I think Kaye was upset
>about Howe playing over his parts on The Yes Album.
What parts?
(Somebody was going to say it!)
-Sam
Edward Hibbert
: In an interview around BG time, I remember Kaye mentioning that Howe didn't
: really know about how to share space within a song. I think Kaye was upset
: about Howe playing over his parts on The Yes Album.
Yes, but be honest - weren't Howe's parts better?
Edward.
--
X.400: C=GB;A=TMAILUK;P=DCNET;S=HIBBERT;G=EDWARD Internet: e...@datcon.co.uk
"But you can't stab with a bread-knife, that's the irony, you have to slice -
because it has a bevelled edge." - Eddie Izzard.
Henry Potts
: In article <jblanks-1102...@jblanks.mindspring.com>,
: jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay) wrote:
: >In article <4flspc$1...@monmouth.edu>, s006...@hawkmail.monmouth.edu
: >(Damon M. Fibraio) wrote:
: >
: >> Maybe somebody can enlighten me as to all the fighting that has gone on
: >I've heard that Bruford doesn't like Squire, but I can't imagine
: >why
: Broof made it plainly clear is a later interview that he considers Squire
: to have lost all creativity and to have become some sort of fat lazy punk.
: Nothing "personal", but said with Broof's inimitable dry wit, that hurts.
: And he also considers White to be a lousy drummer. And all he liked in
: _ABWH_/_Onion_ was the big bucks to fund Earthworks.
No - he has said that ABWH had potential and that he enjoyed "Birthright",
which was beginning to reveal that potential, and that he enjoyed the
nostalgia, playing the old tunes with his old mates, which was all _Union_
was really about, no?
: >--he gets along pretty well with Howe, though (though apparently not so
: >well with Wakeman, who he once described as being pretty disconnected from
: >ABWH, while he and Howe worked pretty closely together).
: Interpersonal relations is Yes have always been somewhat of a puzzle,
: mainly due to Little Jon's changing affections. Squire, Howe, Wakeman and
: Rabin each had their turn.
One could even add David Foster.
Henry
Joseph B McGlinchey
people in Yes didn't get along...I mean, if I gathered together any
combination of 8 of my friends and forced them to hang out
continuously, I'm sure that at least 90% of the time two of 'em probably
would not get along, so what's so special about rock musicians? They're
people too [even if they think they're from the Pleaides:)]!
Joe McGlinchey
Teachers College
Columbia University
David Mazzarella
>Broof made it plainly clear is a later interview that he considers Squire
>to have lost all creativity and to have become some sort of fat lazy punk.
>Nothing "personal", but said with Broof's inimitable dry wit, that hurts.
Isn't the King Crimson song , "Great Deceiver", about Chris Squire, and
wasn't it recorded shortly after Bruford left Yes to join KC?
David Mazzarella
Bill Wade
::In an interview around BG time, I remember Kaye mentioning that Howe didn't
::really know about how to share space within a song. I think Kaye was upset
::about Howe playing over his parts on The Yes Album.
Then he should have been livid over Rabin playing all of the organ parts
to "Yours is No Disgrace" as he did on tour. Even in his dilapidated state,
Kaye could play *those* parts.
:What parts?
:
:(Somebody was going to say it!)
Probably not. As rampant as Kaye bashing is, there's nary a person who
doesn't acknowledge Kaye's work on the first 3 albums as anywhere from
rock solid to outstanding.
David J. P. Long
>: Tony liked. Then, when he joined, he changed to the sound we hear on _TYA_,
>: which apparently po'd Kaye somewhat. This bust-up was one of the factors
>: in Kaye's departure.
>: That's the story *I* heard. Henry or someone else may know more.
>In an interview around BG time, I remember Kaye mentioning that Howe didn't
>really know about how to share space within a song. I think Kaye was upset
>about Howe playing over his parts on The Yes Album.
Kaye was fired according the Hedges book.
---------*--------------------------------------------------------
*** djl...@magic.mv.com
***** djl...@msn.com
*******************
*************
***********
****** ******
**** **** [Insert pithy saying here]
-**-------------**-------------------------------------------------
Yann Clochec
performed live from the beginning or middle of 1973. But Are the words
really about Squire. Let's take it line by line :
"Health-food faggot with a bartered bride" refering to vegetarian tastes ?
Why not, but could be anyone in prog rock around that time, except Wakeman.
"Likes to comb his hair with a dipper ride" why not, but the peroxided
spikes came only later.
"Once had a friend with a cloven foot" Squire an adorator of Satan ? Come
on the guy has amply proved later that he's no Doctor Faust
"Once he called the tune with a chequered suit" could be, but could as well
be Anderson, they always seem to compete as to who is dressed with the most
ridiculous stage outfit.
"In the door on the floor in a paper bag"
"There's a shoe shine boy with a gin-shop slag" subtle reference to some
drinking habit ? Then it should have been vodka, no ?
"She raised him up and she called him son"
"And she canonized the ground that he walked upon" did Fishy Chrissy have
an over-caring and exclusive mother ? Don't know...
"In the night he's a star in the Milky Way"
"He's a man of the world by the light of day" could be a desciption of some
rock star, but why only Squire ?
"A golden smile and a proposition"
"And the breath of God smells of sweet sedition" would apply more to
Anderson and Howe, and the writing of _TfTO_.
"Sing hymns make love get high fall dead" short summary of Chris's life ?
But the "fall ded" bit (metaphorically) would only come after _Drama_.
"He'll bring his perfume to your bed" ???
"He'll charm your life til the cold wind blows" why not...
"Then he'll sell your dreams to a picture show" ???
"Cadillacs, blue jeans, Dixieland playing on the ferry" does Squire know
what Dixieland is ? would be more aptly used for Howe
"Cadillacs, blue jeans, drop a glass full of antique sherry" already
covered, should be vodka.
Well, is it Squire ? I doubt it. To relate this to an earlier thread, my
bet is that it is more likely about some televangelist guy 8-) But were
there any such guys around in 73 ???? Or maybe it is simply Palmer-James
doing his best to be as obscure as Sinfield at his best.
Steven Sullivan
: I can't believe Broof really said that. This guy is decidedly shameless.
: Everyone on the fucking planet knows that Broof was in ABWH *only* to
: collect money for Earthworks and that he did not give a donkey's shit about
: what he played as long as he was *credited* for co-writing and got the
: royalties checks. He said it one thousand times to anyone that would
: listen ! What a shithead ! He also said he hated _Union_ and the tour,
: found White a stinky drummer and Squire a fat lazy prick. But he never
: refused the big bucks for his computer-tuning on the tour !
I'd be really surprised if BB ever expressed himself this un-wittily to
the press.
: I have no doubt that Little Jon's wishes are much more divine than Broof's.
: Jon may be wierd and tyrannic, at least he's not a fucking dumbass. And the
: little serf should know better than whine after getting those big fat
: checks.
Calm down, Yann. Sheesh.
C. Currie
>Isn't the King Crimson song , "Great Deceiver", about Chris Squire, and
>wasn't it recorded shortly after Bruford left Yes to join KC?
Well, you're right about the second point (if we count "shortly" as
referring to the span of a year).
But...
(i) "The Great Deceiver" lyric was by Richard Palmer-James, making a
Squire connection unlikely.
(ii) Bruford rejoined Squire for the _Fish Out Of Water_ album.
------
An amusing idea nonetheless, though.
"And the breath of God smells of sweet sedition"
The Christopher Currie
Yann Clochec
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
>: I can't believe Broof really said that. This guy is decidedly shameless.
>: Everyone on the fucking planet knows that Broof was in ABWH *only* to
>: collect money for Earthworks and that he did not give a donkey's shit
about
>: what he played as long as he was *credited* for co-writing and got the
>: royalties checks. He said it one thousand times to anyone that would
>: listen ! What a shithead ! He also said he hated _Union_ and the tour,
>: found White a stinky drummer and Squire a fat lazy prick. But he never
>: refused the big bucks for his computer-tuning on the tour !
>
>I'd be really surprised if BB ever expressed himself this un-wittily to
>the press.
Not with these words, of course, Broof is too English to do that. But the
general sense is here. For a good example, just check the interview in
Anil Prasad's site. That's as close as Broof came to actually saying
"Squire is a fat lazy punk" and "I was in ABWH only to get money for
Earthworks". Ooops, I even *think* he says the latter in as many words.
>: I have no doubt that Little Jon's wishes are much more divine than
Broof's.
>: Jon may be wierd and tyrannic, at least he's not a fucking dumbass. And
the
>: little serf should know better than whine after getting those big fat
>: checks.
>
>Calm down, Yann. Sheesh.
Wake up, Surly. Whoooosh.
Carl Christensen
>I have no doubt that Little Jon's wishes are much more divine than Broof's.
>Jon may be wierd and tyrannic, at least he's not a fucking dumbass. And the
>little serf should know better than whine after getting those big fat
>checks.
I like Bill Bruford but his remarks sound like the same old prog rock
'line' you can see to this day in rec.music.progressive; e.g. "my band
isn't selling anything so we're better musically." I found much of
Earthworks to be nothing more than an excuse for music school
graduates to masturbate (and a lot of neo-prog in general, you know,
bands that have more members than fans ;-)
Although I like Bruford's drumming better than White, I can't believe
he would cut up on Alan and would need to see the interview. I think
Alan White is one of the better rock drummers out there (so he doesn't
want to be a fusion-head like Bill, that's his call), and the fact
that he was with John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band and Yes will probably
keep him in the rock history books long after Bruford's Union/ABWH
royalties have run out. I mean, how can he knock White and drum in
King Crimson with the ex-drummer for Mister Mister? My greatest wish
in life is for Crimson to get a #1 hit -- because then Belew will get
his pop dream come true; Fripp will finally have some moolah; Bruford
can't hide behind his non-pop drummer "mystique" and 99% of
progressive rock fans can bitch about how KC "sold out!" :-)
------
Carl Christensen /~~\_/~\ ,,, For music fun in Windows
E-mail: ca...@netaxs.com | #=#==========# | download alcomp11.zip
C/C++/Delphi/VB Consultant \__/~\_/ ``` at a popular FTP site!
Philadelphia, PA Obligatory WWW page --> http://www.netaxs.com/~carl
Steven Sullivan
: In article <4ftr3k$r...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
: >
: >I'd be really surprised if BB ever expressed himself this un-wittily to
: >the press.
: Not with these words, of course, Broof is too English to do that. But the
: general sense is here. For a good example, just check the interview in
: Anil Prasad's site. That's as close as Broof came to actually saying
: "Squire is a fat lazy punk" and "I was in ABWH only to get money for
: Earthworks". Ooops, I even *think* he says the latter in as many words.
Of course I read the interview. The point is that BB chose his words
carefully. He called Squire 'political', slow to create, and not his
first choice as a bassist. He seemed to be bending over backwards *not*
to let fly with the lazy punk business. So for you to get all bent out of
shape over words you put in his mouth, is kind of funny. As for ABWH
versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago to
Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been something
more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered. And
ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
DougG5
to the band. There have been, and always will be artistic differences, but
these guys don't HATE. They compete. They bump egos. They battle for the
spotlight. They push each other creatively. That's chemistry, not hatred.
____________
YES MAGAZINE can be reached via eMail at: yes...@yesmag.com or on the
web, http://www.yesmag.com/yesmag/
____________
michaeldamianjeter
'jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay)' wrote:
>The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
>me.
Why? Did Howe leave Yes, or was he pushed out after DRAMA? I would assume
the former. If I am correct, him bearing animosity toward Trev would show
an incredible ammount of ego(I left, therefore the band should have folded)
I thought Howe was supposed to be this real humble cat.
Any way, be careful about projecting our animosities onto YES. Generators
may hate Rabin b/c he is not Howe, but it does not necessarily follow that
Rabin and Howe hate each other. a similar case: Jake E. Lee replaced
Randy Rhoads in Ozzy's band. All the time Jake was with Oz, he got the
"Randy Rules!" "Jake Sucks!" signs at the shows. One night he goes to the
microphone and says, "Look, I didn't even know the guy. He was Ozzy's best
friend, so all your doing is upsetting Ozzy." I realize I stand a big
chance of getting flamed just for mentioning Ozzy, Jake and Randy in the
same post with Yes and Steve Howe. I don't think Trev or his fans will
mind, and I doubt Yes or Steve would mind. But the die-hard troopers might
michaeldamianjeter
There, by the waterside
Here, where the lens is wide
You&me, By the sea
Taken in Tranqulity
I am a Camera--St. Trevor of the Horn
Yann Clochec
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
>: In article <4ftr3k$r...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
>: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>: >I'd be really surprised if BB ever expressed himself this un-wittily to
>: >the press.
>
>: Not with these words, of course, Broof is too English to do that. But
>: the general sense is here. For a good example, just check the interview
>: in Anil Prasad's site. That's as close as Broof came to actually saying
>: "Squire is a fat lazy punk" and "I was in ABWH only to get money for
>: Earthworks". Ooops, I even *think* he says the latter in as many words.
>
>Of course I read the interview. The point is that BB chose his words
>carefully. He called Squire 'political', slow to create, and not his
>first choice as a bassist. He seemed to be bending over backwards *not*
>to let fly with the lazy punk business.
Maybe that's why it sounded so harsh.
Someting like Sinfield's lyrics for "The letters" 8-)
>So for you to get all bent out of
>shape over words you put in his mouth, is kind of funny.
I'm always happy when you say I'm funny 8-)
>As for ABWH
>versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago to
>Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been something
>more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered. And
>ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
Did Bruford do his best to improve ABWH ? I seriously doubt it, in the
light of his own comments. And to hear Broof call Squire "political" with
this devilish sneer only confirms the feeling that he is a conservative.
Too bad. And finally, IMO, ABWH was not *that* of an abortion. It is surely
spread rather thin as far as the musical content goes, and does not have
the best Anderson lyrics (my bit at Broofish understatement), but it is
nice listening though. Talk about _Union_, *that* was an abortion.
Steven Sullivan
: In article <4fvssd$3...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: >As for ABWH
: >versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago to
: >Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been something
: >more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered. And
: >ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
: Did Bruford do his best to improve ABWH ? I seriously doubt it, in the
: light of his own comments. And to hear Broof call Squire "political" with
: this devilish sneer only confirms the feeling that he is a conservative.
You Gallic goofball! Ever been in a band? Ever hear of 'band politics'?
I doubt very much that BB was referring to Squire's voting habits in
British elections.
amused ne'er unto death,
S.
Axe Mann
>to the band. There have been, and always will be artistic differences,
but
>these guys don't HATE. They compete. They bump egos. They battle for the
>spotlight. They push each other creatively. That's chemistry, not hatred.
Gotta disagree with you here...Peter Banks made clear to me his dislike of
several of the Yes family, particularly Jon. He felt that Jon was
primarily motivated by money, and is a bit of a skinflint...now mind you,
I'M not saying that, Peter did. I also gathered things were rather tense
in the Yes-camp during the Union era, during which I knew Banks. Tony
Kaye was in litigation with the other seven while he was touring with
them!!! Can't have been too easy to deal with that. A lot of the
acrimony apparently dealt with the royalties over the Yesyears set.
Everyone assumed that there would be some big bucks there, which turned
out not to be the case.
I tend to think that a lot of the latter-day disputes turn on money, while
the '70s era fights were about the music. This is, to me, a sad turn of
events.
Christopher Oberst
Jeremy S.
michaeldamianjeter <lord...@nyc.pipeline.com> wrote:
>On Feb 11, 1996 23:01:05 in article <Re: Hatred in the Yes fold>,
>'jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay)' wrote:
>
>
>>The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
>
>>me.
>
>Why? Did Howe leave Yes, or was he pushed out after DRAMA? I would assume
>the former. If I am correct, him bearing animosity toward Trev would show
>an incredible ammount of ego(I left, therefore the band should have folded)
> I thought Howe was supposed to be this real humble cat.
>
My understanbding was that Horn didn't want to sing anymore, and Downes
had the concept of Asia running through his head. He asked Steve to join,
and he said "sure." I don't think he was pushed out in any sense of the
word.
--Jeremy
Gary Hobish
>Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
>: In article <4ftr3k$r...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
>: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>: >
>: >I'd be really surprised if BB ever expressed himself this un-wittily to
>: >the press.
>
>: Not with these words, of course, Broof is too English to do that. But the
>: general sense is here. For a good example, just check the interview in
>: Anil Prasad's site. That's as close as Broof came to actually saying
>: "Squire is a fat lazy punk" and "I was in ABWH only to get money for
>: Earthworks". Ooops, I even *think* he says the latter in as many words.
>
>
>
>Of course I read the interview. The point is that BB chose his words
>carefully. He called Squire 'political', slow to create, and not his
>first choice as a bassist. He seemed to be bending over backwards *not*
>to let fly with the lazy punk business. So for you to get all bent out of
>shape over words you put in his mouth, is kind of funny. As for ABWH
>versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago to
>Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been something
>more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered. And
>ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
Something to be considered in the 'judgement' of BB's words in interviews is that the man has a sharp, rather sarcastic sense of humor (which I like). His words come across very differently when you hear him speak, as opoosed to reading those words later in print. The man's just honest. Too bad some people can't deal with that.
--
/// To receive notices of performances by \\\
||| San Franciso's TRUE MARGRIT, |||
||| send email to gho...@tscan.com |||
"Wherever you go, there you are!" (Buckaroo Banzi)
Yann Clochec
>
>: >As for ABWH
>: >versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago
to
>: >Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been
something
>: >more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered.
And
>: >ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
>
>: light of his own comments. And to hear Broof call Squire "political"
with
>: this devilish sneer only confirms the feeling that he is a conservative.
>
>You Gallic goofball! Ever been in a band? Ever hear of 'band politics'?
>I doubt very much that BB was referring to Squire's voting habits in
>British elections.
>
>amused ne'er unto death,
>S.
>
"politically motivated". Did not sound like having anything to do with
"band politics" as you put it, though I suspect that "band policy" would
have been better English on your part, Yankee duckhead.
BTW, I *was* in a band some time years ago. Just for fun, no politics 8-)
Yann Clochec
lord...@nyc.pipeline.com (michaeldamianjeter) wrote:
>On Feb 11, 1996 23:01:05 in article <Re: Hatred in the Yes fold>,
>'jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay)' wrote:
>
>
>>The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer
to
>
>>me.
>
>Why? Did Howe leave Yes, or was he pushed out after DRAMA? I would
>assume the former. If I am correct, him bearing animosity toward Trev
>would show an incredible ammount of ego(I left, therefore the band should
Why should he, Mike ? For Yes' style of music up until 1980, Howe was
better than Rabin. And, again, this is not a question of talent, just
of which instrumental style suits a compositional style better.
>Any way, be careful about projecting our animosities onto YES.
>Generators may hate Rabin b/c he is not Howe,
It's the reverse, Mike, now you will get flamed for *that* 8-)
>but it does not necessarily
>follow that Rabin and Howe hate each other. a similar case: Jake E. Lee
>replaced Randy Rhoads in Ozzy's band. All the time Jake was with Oz, he
>got the "Randy Rules!" "Jake Sucks!" signs at the shows. One night he
>goes to the microphone and says, "Look, I didn't even know the guy. He
>was Ozzy's best friend, so all your doing is upsetting Ozzy." I realize I
>stand a bigchance of getting flamed just for mentioning Ozzy, Jake and
>Randy in the same post with Yes and Steve Howe.
Not as long as you can prove that Wakeman was there too.
>I don't think Trev or his
>fans will mind, and I doubt Yes or Steve would mind. But the die-hard
>troopers might
>
>michaeldamianjeter
>There, by the waterside
>Here, where the lens is wide
>You&me, By the sea
>Taken in Tranqulity
>I am a Camera--St. Trevor of the Horn
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Steven Sullivan
: In article <4fvssd$3...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
: >Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: >: In article <4ftr3k$r...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: >: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
: >: >
: >: >I'd be really surprised if BB ever expressed himself this un-wittily to
: >: >the press.
: >
: >: Not with these words, of course, Broof is too English to do that. But the
: >: general sense is here. For a good example, just check the interview in
: >: Anil Prasad's site. That's as close as Broof came to actually saying
: >: "Squire is a fat lazy punk" and "I was in ABWH only to get money for
: >: Earthworks". Ooops, I even *think* he says the latter in as many words.
: >
: >
: >
: >Of course I read the interview. The point is that BB chose his words
: >carefully. He called Squire 'political', slow to create, and not his
: >first choice as a bassist. He seemed to be bending over backwards *not*
: >to let fly with the lazy punk business. So for you to get all bent out of
: >shape over words you put in his mouth, is kind of funny. As for ABWH
: >versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago to
: >Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been something
: >more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered. And
: >ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
: Something to be considered in the 'judgement' of BB's words in interviews is that the man has a sharp, rather sarcastic sense of humor (which I like). His words come across very differently when you hear him speak, as opoosed to reading those words late
r in print. The man's just honest. Too bad some people can't deal with that.
I have no trouble sensing when BB's being dry in interviews. Some people
interpret that as 'arrogant'. or 'self-absorbed' or, god forbid,
'conservative'. Some people have no sense of humor.
Steven Sullivan
: In article <4g2kat$9...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
: >Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: >
: >: >As for ABWH
: >: >versus money, I remember him saying something to taht effect years ago
: to
: >: >Yes Magazine too, while also lamenting that it *could* have been
: something
: >: >more, if record companies and unspecified politics hadn't interfered.
: And
: >: >ABWH *was* an abortion, IMO.
: >
: with
: >: this devilish sneer only confirms the feeling that he is a conservative.
: >
: >You Gallic goofball! Ever been in a band? Ever hear of 'band politics'?
: >I doubt very much that BB was referring to Squire's voting habits in
: >British elections.
: >
: >amused ne'er unto death,
: >S.
: >
: I think the exact phrasing was to the effect that Squire was too
: "politically motivated". Did not sound like having anything to do with
: "band politics" as you put it, though I suspect that "band policy" would
: have been better English on your part, Yankee duckhead.
oy gevalt. You want to believe he was talking about the whether Squire
was a Tory or not, be my guest. That sound you hear isn't laughter,
honest.
Jay
(michaeldamianjeter) wrote:
> On Feb 11, 1996 23:01:05 in article <Re: Hatred in the Yes fold>,
> 'jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay)' wrote:
>
>
> >The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
> >me.
>
> Why? Did Howe leave Yes,...?
Yep.
> If I am correct, him bearing animosity toward Trev would show
> an incredible ammount of ego(I left, therefore the band should have folded)
> I thought Howe was supposed to be this real humble cat.
Oh, yeah?? I've read interviews where Howe talks about the state of Yes
with Rabin, and he makes clear (though he never mentions Trevor's name)
that he doesn't even consider it _real_Yes_music_. I don't know whether
he thought the band should have folded if he wasn't in it, but I think
it's clear he considers himself a good judge of what Yes should be. It
seems he thinks Rabin ruined Yes, essentially, though he's too forbearing
to say it up front in public. It's not necessarily a matter of "ego,"
though I wouldn't be surprised if that was a part of it. You have to
remember, too, that he thought Yes was _over_, and that he was essential
enough to it that they would naturally contact him if they wanted to
re-form Yes. The way it happened, it's as if they went behind his
back--but, you know, that's just the way things developed. YesWest is
Yes, IMHO, because it's not anything else (except when it's being Cinema).
> Jake E. Lee replaced
> Randy Rhoads in Ozzy's band. All the time Jake was with Oz, he got the
> "Randy Rules!" "Jake Sucks!" signs at the shows. One night he goes to the
> microphone and says, "Look, I didn't even know the guy. He was Ozzy's best
> friend, so all you're doing is upsetting Ozzy."
They should've given Jake a chance. What did they want? How could they
act that way (though I knew they did) considering the circumstances?
Would they have been satisfied if Ozzy had put it to the fans for a vote?
> I realize I stand a big
> chance of getting flamed just for mentioning Ozzy, Jake and Randy in the
> same post with Yes and Steve Howe.
You wouldn't happen to be a guitarist yourself, would you? I'm looking
for a prog-minded hard-rock/metal guitarist for my own projects.
Bill Wade
:: Why? Did Howe leave Yes,...?
:
:Yep.
No, not really. It was more along the lines of Yes leaving everyone.
Howe & Downes were the only ones left in Yes when the smoke cleared, and
they didn't feel that they could rebuild the band. They deserve some
credit for not turning Yes into Asia. That came later.
:Oh, yeah?? I've read interviews where Howe talks about the state of Yes
:with Rabin, and he makes clear (though he never mentions Trevor's name)
:that he doesn't even consider it _real_Yes_music_.
Hell, circa 1989, *Jon* had similar comments for _Big Disappointment_.
I'm sure Peter Banks probably feels everything post-_Ta&W_ isn't Yes
music. Does that make him an asshole?
:It seems he thinks Rabin ruined Yes, essentially, though he's too forbearing
:to say it up front in public.
I don't think this is the case. *I* don't even think Rabin ruined Yes.
He had a hand in its downturn, but he wasn't the only assassin.
:You have to remember, too, that he thought Yes was _over_, and that he was
:essential enough to it that they would naturally contact him if they wanted
:to re-form Yes. The way it happened, it's as if they went behind his
:back--but, you know, that's just the way things developed.
I doubt he felt any angst because he wasn't in the new Yes, which was only
Yes because some Atlantic executives heard the cash registers go off. Howe
had his own profit-maker(s) at the time.
>YesWest is Yes, IMHO, because it's not anything else (except when it's being
>Cinema).
I think I speak for others when I say "huh???".
John Allgaier
>In a 1992 interview, Rick Wakeman reported that certain individuals
>on the _Union_ tour didn't speak one word to each other the WHOLE
>tour! Not even "Good morning", he pointed out. I am curious. Who
>does he mean?
>
>Near as I can figure, Howe does not get along with Kaye. This seems
>the more logical choice. But, knowing Yes, there could be several
>sets of enemies.
>
>I strongly doubt that Wakeman or White have any problems with
>anybody. Perhaps Squire/Bruford? I know that Bruford doesn't much
>care for Squire anymore... or at least, that's what I've been led to
>believe.
>
>Who could it be?
>
> Lorne Murphy
>
>
>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
A too easy first guess would be Howe and Rabin. Also, I noticed Anderson
and Squire avoiding each other onstage here in Kalamazoo. It kinda stuck
out to me as I remembered the row over the rights to the Yes name. (the
ending to _Teakboi_ (sp)?). Any comments on this concept?
John Allgaier
C and W Vig
David Mazzarella (dama...@du.edu) wrote:
: 10077...@compuserve.com (Yann Clochec) wrote:
: >Broof made it plainly clear is a later interview that he considers Squire
: >to have lost all creativity and to have become some sort of fat lazy punk.
: >Nothing "personal", but said with Broof's inimitable dry wit, that hurts.
: Isn't the King Crimson song , "Great Deceiver", about Chris Squire, and
: wasn't it recorded shortly after Bruford left Yes to join KC?
: David Mazzarella
Have you read the lyrics to this song or heard it? It's credited to
Wetton, Fripp & Palmer-James Bill Bruford is not credited to this song
at all. Bruford may not like Chris, granted, but this song is in no way
about him. Listen to it, read the words. IMHO it's about an evangelist
or seeming "man of God" who is really a "Great Deceiver" It's one of my
favorites
*Wendy*
The Order of The Universe
Welcomes
All Good People
Jay
> Quoth Jay on Sun, 18 Feb 1996 02:10:43 -0500:
>
> :: Why? Did Howe leave Yes,...?
> :
> :Yep.
>
> No, not really. It was more along the lines of Yes leaving everyone.
> Howe & Downes were the only ones left in Yes when the smoke cleared, and
> they didn't feel that they could rebuild the band. They deserve some
> credit for not turning Yes into Asia. That came later.
Well, OK. You're right; he "left" to the extent that he wasn't fired (but
then there was no one there to fire him). I don't know if Howe and Downes
could have had the legal right to put a new version of Yes together unless
they could have gotten Anderson and maybe one other old member (but whom?)
back.
> :Oh, yeah?? I've read interviews where Howe talks about the state of Yes
> :with Rabin, and he makes clear (though he never mentions Trevor's name)
> :that he doesn't even consider it _real_Yes_music_.
>
> Hell, circa 1989, *Jon* had similar comments for _Big Disappointment_.
For me, side 2 of that album _was_ Yes music--not the best or most
representative Yes music, but Yes music all the same, which I hope
explains my comment below.
> >YesWest is Yes, IMHO, because it's not anything else (except when it's being
> >Cinema).
In fact, the same goes for _Drama_. It's not "_not_ Yes music," so it's
Yes music. You could say that _Drama_, ABWH, and YesWest are _extensions_
of Yes.
Tom Nicolaides
>In a 1992 interview, Rick Wakeman reported that certain individuals
>on the _Union_ tour didn't speak one word to each other the WHOLE
>tour! Not even "Good morning", he pointed out. I am curious. Who
>does he mean?
>
>Near as I can figure, Howe does not get along with Kaye. This seems
>the more logical choice. But, knowing Yes, there could be several
>sets of enemies.
>
I remember seeing Jon and Chris in an interview on MTV not long after 90125
came out. The interviewer told them that he was asked to ask them about the
eagle in the _owner of a lonely heart_ video. Jon immediately takes off with
something about the bird represendting the cosmic consiousness....... Chris
listens for a moment and laughs, slaps Jon on the knee and says, "I think
they're looking for the funny version, Jon, not the cosmic version." Chris
then tells how it was difficult to get the bird to do what they wanted it to
do while filming that video.... Now Jon has a fake, pained smile on his face
and is beginning to lean away from Chris.. I never saw clearer body language.
Hatred? naw.. more like a marital spat, I'd say.
Tom
Bill Wade
:I don't know if Howe and Downes could have had the legal right to put a new
:other old member (but whom?) back.
AFAIK, at the time, they had the legal right to the name Yes. Squire & White
were working on other projects, none of which they intended to be called
Yes.
Alan Williams
would be that Bill has some "tough Times" with either Chris or Jon
because he left them expressing a dislike of the band's musical
direction. and he is the least pretentious of any of the individuals
mentioned (well, i bet he and Rick still speak)
Henry Potts
: Quoth Jay on Mon, 19 Feb 1996 01:08:06 -0500:
My understanding too is that the name resided with those who were then in the
band, so if Horn/Howe/Downes had continued with anyone, they might have been
able to call themselves Yes.
Henry
LORNE MURPHY
Kaye/Howe
Kaye/everybody except Wakeman and possibly Squire
Bruford/Squire (not a hatred, but not friends)
Anderson/Moraz
Rabin/Horn
Does this appear accurate thus far?
Lorne Murphy
Yann Clochec
Wetton and Palmer for example ? That would have been fun ! And imagine
today's Yes with Downes and Jon Payne !!! Another example that parallel
universes always end up on the same course as the real one : Downes/Payne
doing their best to emulate the worse of Rabin 8-)
>have been able to call themselves Yes.
>
>Henry
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Frog In The White Car - Knight Commander, Order of the Panther - Soundchaser and Cirkusmaster
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
We are obscene, lawless, hideous, dangerous, dirty, violent and young. We are forces of chaos and
anarchy. Everything they say we are, we are, and we're very proud of ourselves - Paul Kantner
Theslammer
To get to the other side
The Amazing Slammer
I've Been Waiting for the Sun to Come Up......I've been waiting for the
showers to stop
Theslammer
Kaye/everybody except Wakeman and possibly Squire
Bruford/Squire (not a hatred, but not friends)
Anderson/Moraz
Rabin/Horn
Does this appear accurate thus far?<<<<
Also:
Kaye/Horn
Henry Potts
: In article <4g1qrf$r...@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com>,
: michaeldamianjeter <lord...@nyc.pipeline.com> wrote:
: >On Feb 11, 1996 23:01:05 in article <Re: Hatred in the Yes fold>,
: >'jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay)' wrote:
: >
: >
: >>The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer to
: >
: >>me.
: >
: >the former. If I am correct, him bearing animosity toward Trev would show
: >an incredible ammount of ego(I left, therefore the band should have folded)
: > I thought Howe was supposed to be this real humble cat.
: My understanbding was that Horn didn't want to sing anymore,
To be more detailed: Horn didn't want to *perform* any more and wanted to
concentrate on producing. He did however finish off the second Buggles
album, _Adventures in Modern Recording_, on which he sings.
: and Downes
: had the concept of Asia running through his head. He asked Steve to join,
: and he said "sure." I don't think he was pushed out in any sense of the
: word.
Squire/White seem to have 'left' next after Horn, although it might be
fairer to describe the whole affair as a general dissolution of everyone
going their own way. In interviews, Howe seems miffed that he was
deserted by the rest of Yes. Having struck up a good relationship with
Downes - and also with Horn - forming Asia with Downes was a logical
move.
Note how Howe's relationship with both Downes and Horn has been far
better than with Squire or White since. Howe has guested on albums
involving Horn a number of times (Frankie Goes to Hollywood's _Welcome
to the Pleasuredome_; Propaganda's _A Secret Wish_; ???_Toys_
soundtrack) and has worked extensively with Downes (Asia's _Asia_,
_Alpha_ and _Aqua_; _GTR_). In comparison, in the same period, Howe
has never worked on an album with Squire/White until the current
NewOldYes. The only Yes member that Howe has worked with (and
released material) outside of Yes/ABWH is Bruford, who drums on
Howe's _Turbulence_.
Henry
LP: "Stormy Circles", Kite
Henry Potts
: Well it seems we have this animosities thus far:
: Kaye/Howe
: Kaye/everybody except Wakeman and possibly Squire
I am not aware of any animosity between Kaye and anyone.
: Bruford/Squire (not a hatred, but not friends)
: Anderson/Moraz
Perhaps once...
: Rabin/Horn
The last is certainly not true: Horn is producing Rabin's new solo album.
: Does this appear accurate thus far?
One could add animosity between Banks and most of the other Yes men.
Plus Howe, Wakeman and Bruford dislike Johnaton Elias
Perhaps we shouldn't talk about animosities as about who is
particularly friendly with whom:
Rabin/Squire/White/Wakeman/?Offord all seem good friends
Squire is friends with Kaye and Sherwood
Howe is friends with Horn, Downes and Bruford
Rabin and Horn are (now) friends
Bruford is also friends with Levin and ?Moraz
Banks and Downes are friends
Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
Clifford.
White seems the friendliest towards everyone, always having something
good to say in interviews about them all.
Henry
David Vincent Halpern
: Gee, this is a little Soap Opera in tone...but oh well! My guess
Bill didn't leave b/c of any "dislike" per se. He just felt that he
had accomplished all that he could with the group. As he has said, in all of
its infamy, all he felt he could contribute after _CTtE_ was son of
_CTtE_. King Crimson offered musical challenges, and has since become
BB's "spiritual home" as a result of Robert Fripp's endless drive to be
unique and sincere. I'm not saying that YES after _CTtE_ isn't sincere,
but BB was afraid that rehashes of older material was what he would
encouter with the group. So, he did the honorable and diplomatic thing
of saying, "I am proud of what I have done, but it is time for me to move
on."
As for being pretentious, Bill is actually, IMO, one of the more
pretentious ppl who has been involved w/ YES b/c he is so confidant of his
abilities, and he comes off with an air of extreme insight into the
workings of all music. I think he's a bit arrogant, but then again, he
*has* proven himself (look at all the work he did simply between '74 and
'81). He could tone down his attitude, but he has always remained true
to himself (in fact, I think that he is a near-perfect drummer/musician
b/c he incororates all styles: jazz, rock, heavy rock, fusion, various
ethnic, etc.).
$.02
David
Bill Wade
:Note how Howe's relationship with both Downes and Horn has been far
:better than with Squire or White since. Howe has guested on albums
:involving Horn a number of times [...] and has worked extensively with
:Downes [...].
Which makes one wonder why Downes & Howe never asked Horn to produce Asia
(or if they did, why he didn't). I can't help but believe that a
Hornification would have been *far* better than Mike Stone's hack job.
:Henry
:
:LP: "Stormy Circles", Kite
Kite? Nah, couldn't be....could it?
Nathan Tocus
>Note how Howe's relationship with both Downes and Horn has been far
>better than with Squire or White since. Howe has guested on albums
>involving Horn a number of times (Frankie Goes to Hollywood's _Welcome
>to the Pleasuredome_; Propaganda's _A Secret Wish_; ???_Toys_
>soundtrack) and has worked extensively with Downes (Asia's _Asia_,
>_Alpha_ and _Aqua_; _GTR_). In comparison, in the same period, Howe
>has never worked on an album with Squire/White until the current
>NewOldYes. The only Yes member that Howe has worked with (and
>released material) outside of Yes/ABWH is Bruford, who drums on
>Howe's _Turbulence_.
>Henry
>LP: "Stormy Circles", Kite
Wrong, Henry. Pat Moraz and Alan White (as well as Bill Bruford) also
worked with Steve Howe on Steve's first solo project; Beginnings.
Benjamin Perry
>BTW, I *was* in a band some time years ago. Just for fun, no politics 8-)
What did you play in this band, Yann, arrangements of _Drama_ tunes for oboe
and flugelhorn?
Bennie
Martin H. Booda
Henry Potts <some...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>Rabin/Squire/White/Wakeman/?Offord all seem good friends
>
>Squire is friends with Kaye and Sherwood
>
>Howe is friends with Horn, Downes and Bruford
>
>Rabin and Horn are (now) friends
>
>Bruford is also friends with Levin and ?Moraz
>
>Banks and Downes are friends
>
>Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
>significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
>Clifford.
>
>White seems the friendliest towards everyone, always having something
>good to say in interviews about them all.
>
admitted having wet dreams as a youth about Chris and perhaps even Jon.
Banks and Banks have been bitter enemies since one of them painted a fake
tunnel on a cliff face for the other to run into.
Rabin, Vangelis and Igor Stravinsky were at one time friendly with John Major,
but seem to have cooled to him since the most recent round of currency talks.
Chris is rather chummy with the makers of Dial Soap.
Steve Howe is eternally grateful to Robert Fripp, and for similar reasons,
everyone praises the existence of Sly and the Family Stone.
Peter Banks claims to be a personal friend of Warren Beatty. Eddie Offord and
Fergie are civil in public but their personal relationship is a shambles.
Donna Summer is still not talking to the Yogi Paramhansa Yoganada.
Eddie Jobson was quite happy with the hotel service.
Ozzy Osbourne liked Rick but prefers bats.
Syd Barrett is simply enraptured by a small mouldy spot behind the fridge.
Greg Lake is very friendly with himself.
--
Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of people passing notes in class. --R. Kadel
Steven Sullivan
: Howe has in effect said Kaye leaving and Wakeman joining Yes was the
: best thing that happened for the band-- he considered Kaye a limited
: talent.
: I think what Broof meant by calling Squire "political" was that he
: felt Squire's decisions regarding Yes are often more about business than
: music.
: There was a public feud between Wakeman and Squire in the 80's;
: apparently Squire originally asked Wakeman to join the reformed Yes,
: Wakeman on MTV said he turned them down due to their history of
: diaagreement; at the same time, Squire said he deliberately chose Kaye
: for 90125 because realizing what a "tricky guitarist trevor is", he
: didn't want to fall in the Tormato trap of twiddlyism... he then a few
: years later, when asked about Wakeman's activities, said he "didn't give
: a damn where he is, he's always trying to make a name for himself..."
some further notes;
Squire almost quit the band prior to Tales; the reasons were unclear (this
from teh Hedges Yes Biography) but seemed to be about Squire wanting more
spotlight in the band, and more control (i.e. , band politics)
on the 78-79 tour, word from roadies was that most of the band members
were no longer on speaking terms with each other.
after Yesshows was released, Wakeman called Squire's
compilation/production job a disgrace.
: Howe was mad at Squire using the Yes name; Squire said "I think he was
: given a nice check" when asked about this. In the same interview, Squire
: said Horn actually got to a point in his singing on tour where he could
: surpass Jon's ability (specifically "And YOou and Eye")
Yeah, well, that's about the time he (Squire) started to bloat up too.
Draw your own conclusions as to the acuity of his faculties.
: The Rolling Stone Record Guide said there were problems with Wakeman's
: "relaxed and meat-eating" attitude, and Howe and Anderson's "uptight,
: health-concious" vibe. (Wakeman has once said his method of preparation
: for a gig is to consume a case of beer and two bottles of wine.)
Sources close to the band (e.g. Hedges) later wrote that this
veggie-versus-cannibal thing was largely a creation of the press, looking
for *some* angle on a band that was a bunch of hermits. Howe seems to
have been the only real health-nut in the band (notice he's the only one
to remain gaunt all these years). At the very least , Anderson and Squire
were or are cigarette smokers. Howe also seems to enjoy a smoke now and
then, though not necessarily of the tobacco variety.
J Greene
best thing that happened for the band-- he considered Kaye a limited
talent.
I think what Broof meant by calling Squire "political" was that he
felt Squire's decisions regarding Yes are often more about business than
music.
There was a public feud between Wakeman and Squire in the 80's;
apparently Squire originally asked Wakeman to join the reformed Yes,
Wakeman on MTV said he turned them down due to their history of
diaagreement; at the same time, Squire said he deliberately chose Kaye
for 90125 because realizing what a "tricky guitarist trevor is", he
didn't want to fall in the Tormato trap of twiddlyism... he then a few
years later, when asked about Wakeman's activities, said he "didn't give
a damn where he is, he's always trying to make a name for himself..."
given a nice check" when asked about this. In the same interview, Squire
said Horn actually got to a point in his singing on tour where he could
surpass Jon's ability (specifically "And YOou and Eye")
"relaxed and meat-eating" attitude, and Howe and Anderson's "uptight,
health-concious" vibe. (Wakeman has once said his method of preparation
for a gig is to consume a case of beer and two bottles of wine.)
and Howe, Bruford seemed somewhat embarassed and rushed offstage quickly
both times, Wakeman and Howe had a mutual admiration society, Howe and
Rabin avoided each other like the plague (I detected Rabin parodying Howe
in his solo section) and Squire gave a genuine big shoulder hug and grin
to Wakeman at the final bow. I think these boys just let money get in
the way too often.
MoongateCl
Potts) writes:
>Rabin/Squire/White/Wakeman/?Offord all seem good friends
~~~~~~~~
>Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
>significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
>Clifford.
According to Rick's autobiography, he & Jon have been solid friends for
around 20 years.
j...@conterra.com
wrote:
>: Rabin/Horn
>
>The last is certainly not true: Horn is producing Rabin's new solo album.
Yeah, and Rabin pops up on a number of Horn productions.
When is the new Rabin solo project due?
j...@conterra.com
wrote:
> On the Onion tour, to my eyes, it seemed like Squire ignored Bruford
>and Howe, Bruford seemed somewhat embarassed and rushed offstage quickly
>both times, Wakeman and Howe had a mutual admiration society, Howe and
>Rabin avoided each other like the plague (I detected Rabin parodying Howe
>in his solo section) and Squire gave a genuine big shoulder hug and grin
>to Wakeman at the final bow. I think these boys just let money get in
>the way too often.
You are forgetting the mutual admiration between Wakeman and
Rabin...both were looking forward to working together again, as I
recall. Could have been interesting....they could have called the
project "wankfest" or something.
Yann Clochec
No Bennie. *I* played bass and violin and sang. Not too bad, if you can
bear a voice that is something of a cross between Jorma Kaukonen and Lou
Reed. We also had guitar, keyboards, drums and a trumpet. Each member had
the choice of two songs. The last year we played together, I had chosen
"Don't kill the whale" and Jefferson Airplane's "Long John Silver". But we
had also played "Into the Lens" with the guitar part reduced to rhythm and
Big Steve's licks played by a violin-trumpet duet. Do you dig that, pal ?
Edward Antoniu
>Sources close to the band (e.g. Hedges) later wrote that this
>veggie-versus-cannibal thing was largely a creation of the press, looking
>for *some* angle on a band that was a bunch of hermits. Howe seems to
>have been the only real health-nut in the band (notice he's the only one
>to remain gaunt all these years). At the very least , Anderson and Squire
>were or are cigarette smokers. Howe also seems to enjoy a smoke now and
>then, though not necessarily of the tobacco variety.
When I saw YesYears, I asked myself: "Man, was any non-smoker in this
band at all?" You know, I had just quit smoking myself I don't remember
certainly well when during last summer, so then I was fooling myself around Ian
Andersonicly-like, you know what I mean. Squire has many snapshots while he was
smoking. Both he and Kaye are smoking while they talk for YesYears. Wakeman
smokes. Bruford is caught smoking by a camera while he drives a car
disorderedly filled in with all the others, remember that clip circa 1970? Oh,
well, and the list, of course, is open...
Eddie
Henry Potts
: In article <4g1qrf$r...@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com>, lord...@nyc.pipeline.com
: (michaeldamianjeter) wrote:
: > On Feb 11, 1996 23:01:05 in article <Re: Hatred in the Yes fold>,
: > 'jbl...@mindspring.com (Jay)' wrote:
: >
: > >The idea of Howe bearing animosity toward Rabin seems like a no-brainer
: > >[...]
: > Why? Did Howe leave Yes,...?
: Yep.
Yes dissolved around him after _Drama_, so he didn't really leave then.
He did leave after _Union_, although you could describe him as again
being abandoned as ABWH dissolved (Anderson and, for a while, Wakeman
effectively joining YesWest).
: > If I am correct, him bearing animosity toward Trev would show
: > an incredible ammount of ego(I left, therefore the band should have folded)
: > I thought Howe was supposed to be this real humble cat.
: Oh, yeah?? I've read interviews where Howe talks about the state of Yes
: with Rabin, and he makes clear (though he never mentions Trevor's name)
: that he doesn't even consider it _real_Yes_music_.
Anderson has said the same thing many times...
: I don't know whether
: he thought the band should have folded if he wasn't in it, but I think
: it's clear he considers himself a good judge of what Yes should be.
He does have better qualifications for the job than nearly anyone...
: It
: seems he thinks Rabin ruined Yes, essentially, though he's too forbearing
: to say it up front in public.
So, many Yes fans would agree with him.
: It's not necessarily a matter of "ego,"
: though I wouldn't be surprised if that was a part of it. You have to
: remember, too, that he thought Yes was _over_, and that he was essential
: enough to it that they would naturally contact him if they wanted to
: re-form Yes. The way it happened, it's as if they went behind his
: back--but, you know, that's just the way things developed. YesWest is
: Yes, IMHO, because it's not anything else (except when it's being Cinema).
I think Howe's reaction was quite reasonable.
Henry
Derek Walker Haines
:: Does this appear accurate thus far?
:
:One could add animosity between Banks and most of the other Yes men.
:
:Plus Howe, Wakeman and Bruford dislike Johnaton Elias
:
:Perhaps we shouldn't talk about animosities as about who is
:particularly friendly with whom:
:Rabin/Squire/White/Wakeman/?Offord all seem good friends
:
:Squire is friends with Kaye and Sherwood
:
:Howe is friends with Horn, Downes and Bruford
:
:Rabin and Horn are (now) friends
:
:Bruford is also friends with Levin and ?Moraz
:
:Banks and Downes are friends
:Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
:significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
:Clifford.
:White seems the friendliest towards everyone, always having something
:good to say in interviews about them all.
:
:Henry
Woo Hoo! I just came to the pointless realization that this is exactly
like those logic puzzles where they present you with a few factual
statements about, er, well, anything, and you infer and deduce the
relationships between everything else; you usually use a grid to help you
figure it out. Ah, er, something to do tonight then, for the sheer
pointless quantification of it.
Derek
para...@udel.edu
Bill Wade
:some...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Henry Potts) wrote:
::Note how Howe's relationship with both Downes and Horn has been far
::better than with Squire or White since. Howe has guested on albums
::involving Horn a number of times (Frankie Goes to Hollywood's _Welcome
::to the Pleasuredome_; Propaganda's _A Secret Wish_; ???_Toys_
::soundtrack) and has worked extensively with Downes (Asia's _Asia_,
::_Alpha_ and _Aqua_; _GTR_). In comparison, in the same period, Howe
::has never worked on an album with Squire/White until the current
::NewOldYes. The only Yes member that Howe has worked with (and
::released material) outside of Yes/ABWH is Bruford, who drums on
::Howe's _Turbulence_.
:
:Wrong, Henry. Pat Moraz and Alan White (as well as Bill Bruford) also
:worked with Steve Howe on Steve's first solo project; Beginnings.
He was speaking of the post-Drama period (re-read his first sentence above;
the keyword is "since").
Michael Lord
: Well it seems we have this animosities thus far:
: Kaye/Howe
I agree.
: Kaye/everybody except Wakeman and possibly Squire
Since I believe he is still in the management team of the NewOldYes, I don't
think there can be that much animosity between Kaye and the others. Just
because he can't play, doesn't mean the other members of the band don't like
him.
: Bruford/Squire (not a hatred, but not friends)
At least not musically.
: Anderson/Moraz
I'll agree, although I've seen less direct evidence (interview quotes, etc...)
than for the others.
: Rabin/Horn
Can't agree on this. Rabin has played on the Seal albums, which Horn has
produced. I will agree on a Horn/Kaye split, since this is what seemed to
cause Kaye to leave the 90125 band initially after the recording of the album.
Mike Lord
Shop smart...shop S-Mart!
Yann Clochec
moong...@aol.com (MoongateCl) wrote:
>In article <4gf0mu$f...@news.ox.ac.uk>, some...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Henry
>Potts) writes:
>
>
>>Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
>>significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
>>Clifford.
>
>around 20 years.
>
_Going for the one_ and _Tormato_, the wreckage of "Awaken" and the
shame of "Madrigal".... Little Jon should definitely have kept Big
Steve as his favorite partner.
xpn...@hic.net
>From: bo...@datasync.com (Martin H. Booda)
>Subject: Re: Hatred in the Yes fold
>Date: 22 Feb 1996 10:37:37 -0600
>In article <4gf0mu$f...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
>Henry Potts <some...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Rabin/Squire/White/Wakeman/?Offord all seem good friends
Big snip.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>good to say in interviews about them all.
>>
>Rick, as we have seen, is friendly with Pat Buchanan, while Rush Limbaugh has
>admitted having wet dreams as a youth about Chris and perhaps even Jon.
Yet another largish snip
>Greg Lake is very friendly with himself.
>--
>Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of people passing notes in class. --R. Kadel
That was so funny I nearly died laughing.
Sir, if you continue to parody so effectivly, I may have to file a lawsuit
against you after I stitch my gut back into my sides.
xponent
rob
Anthony Hobbs
> : Anderson/Moraz
>
> Perhaps once...
I wouldn't call the Jon/Pat rift so much "hate", as "this band ain't big
enough for two space cases".
> Plus Howe, Wakeman and Bruford dislike Johnaton Elias
Like all sentient beings.
--
Anthony "Slug of Doom" Hobbs, GCP: musician and amateur ranter, Wellington, NZ.
hob...@ix.wcc.govt.nz ant...@actrix.gen.nz
"I could ta-ta-ta-ta-talk myself to death..." "CPL-953H!"
Anthony Hobbs
Henry Potts <some...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> To be more detailed: Horn didn't want to *perform* any more and wanted to
> concentrate on producing. He did however finish off the second Buggles
> album, _Adventures in Modern Recording_, on which he sings.
This brings me to a question that's nagged me for a while. Could some
loyal Panther archivist tell me: what exactly is St. Trevor's middle
name? He's credited on _Pleasuredome_ as "Trevor C. Horn"...
> LP: "Stormy Circles", Kite
*blush* :)
Axe Mann
After all, the music's the thing.
Suggestion: a new soap opera...Tales From Topographic Oceans, featuring
an endless cast of spoiled, narcissistic musicians who badmouth each other
in the press in the hopes of landing that One Big Deal....
Christopher Oberst
Yann Clochec
ant...@cs.ualberta.ca (Edward Antoniu) wrote:
>sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) writes:
>
>>Sources close to the band (e.g. Hedges) later wrote that this
>>veggie-versus-cannibal thing was largely a creation of the press, looking
>>for *some* angle on a band that was a bunch of hermits.
At some point in YesYears, Wakeman states that *he* was the only non-veggie
in the band (must be around the time _Tales_ was recorded). And he also
makes fun at the press which made tons of gossip out of this, largely on
the lines described by Surly.
>>Howe seems to
>>have been the only real health-nut in the band (notice he's the only one
>>to remain gaunt all these years). At the very least , Anderson and
>>Squire were or are cigarette smokers.
And amateurs of heavily loaded liquids, though not necessarily of the
same category nor in the same periods. Wakeman says himself he was a heavy
drinker too in the 70s but has stopped now ("now" being 1991 when
_YesYears_ was filmed).
>>Howe also seems to enjoy a smoke
>>now and then, though not necessarily of the tobacco variety.
The star bevahing like his fans, what's more natural ?
>When I saw YesYears, I asked myself: "Man, was any non-smoker in this
>band at all?" You know, I had just quit smoking myself I don't remember
>certainly well when during last summer, so then I was fooling myself
>around Ian Andersonicly-like, you know what I mean. Squire has many
>snapshots while he was smoking. Both he and Kaye are smoking while they
>talk for YesYears. Wakeman smokes. Bruford is caught smoking by a camera
>while he drives a car disorderedly filled in with all the others, remember
>that clip circa 1970? Oh, well, and the list, of course, is open...
Only Broof is not caught smoking during the actual _YesYears_ filming. In
the 20 years between this clip and the _Union_ tour, he may have quit.
Perhaps while he was teaming with the ascetic Fripp 8-) I remmeber a line
in the _Frame by Frame_ booklet to the effect that Fripp is "sex crazed"
but otherwise does not indulge in any sort of abuse.
>Eddie
Pete Shishakly
> around 20 years.
Rick wrote an autobio? Tell me more. where can I find it?
Yann Clochec
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
<lots snipped>
>after Yesshows was released, Wakeman called Squire's
>compilation/production job a disgrace.
I think everyone can agree on that. Particularly on the point that Squire
chose performances that disgrace both Jon's singing and Moraz' playing.
>: said Horn actually got to a point in his singing on tour where he could
>: surpass Jon's ability (specifically "And YOou and Eye")
>
>Yeah, well, that's about the time he (Squire) started to bloat up too.
>Draw your own conclusions as to the acuity of his faculties.
Obviously you have not listened enough to any _Drama_ tour boots you may
have, Steven. Horn is weak (and perhaps even more than that) on "Yours is
no disgrace" but he is quite good on "And you and I". Compare the _Age of
the Buggles_ version with both the original and the _Yessongs_ versions,
and you will see that there are very few differences in singing abilities,
even if there are lots in style. In fact, what amazes me the most in
"classic Yes" fans' reactions to the _Drama_ tour is that Horn took all the
slamming. In this logic (which I do not share, you knwo that), if something
should really have been found "offensive", in comparison to the previous
line-up, that was Downes' keyboard playing, not Horn's vocals. Howe too
should have been the focus of some slamming, because his style changed
radically both on _Drama_ and on the tour.
>: The Rolling Stone Record Guide said there were problems with Wakeman's
>: "relaxed and meat-eating" attitude, and Howe and Anderson's "uptight,
>: health-concious" vibe. (Wakeman has once said his method of preparation
>: for a gig is to consume a case of beer and two bottles of wine.)
While Squire's method was two bottles of vodka ?
Steven Sullivan
: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
: <lots snipped>
: >after Yesshows was released, Wakeman called Squire's
: >compilation/production job a disgrace.
: I think everyone can agree on that. Particularly on the point that Squire
: chose performances that disgrace both Jon's singing and Moraz' playing.
: >: said Horn actually got to a point in his singing on tour where he could
: >: surpass Jon's ability (specifically "And YOou and Eye")
: >
: >Yeah, well, that's about the time he (Squire) started to bloat up too.
: >Draw your own conclusions as to the acuity of his faculties.
: Obviously you have not listened enough to any _Drama_ tour boots you may
: have, Steven. Horn is weak (and perhaps even more than that) on "Yours is
: no disgrace" but he is quite good on "And you and I". Compare the _Age of
: the Buggles_ version with both the original and the _Yessongs_ versions,
: and you will see that there are very few differences in singing abilities,
: even if there are lots in style. In fact, what amazes me the most in
: "classic Yes" fans' reactions to the _Drama_ tour is that Horn took all the
: slamming. In this logic (which I do not share, you knwo that), if something
: should really have been found "offensive", in comparison to the previous
: line-up, that was Downes' keyboard playing, not Horn's vocals. Howe too
: should have been the focus of some slamming, because his style changed
: radically both on _Drama_ and on the tour.
Now listen up, Yann, because I'm only going to repeat this ONE MORE TIME:
I was *at* one of the widely bootlegged shows (Madison Square Garden).
And another show from the same tour. That's two shows I was *at*. Plus,
I have the bootleg to shore up my memory. Which is that on phrases like
'coming quickly to terms of all expression laid' Horn is screeching rather
than singing. The guy gave it the old college try, god bless 'im, but
only Squire (and rabid Panthers, naturally) seemed to think Horn was
really cutting it as a touring vocalist/frontman. And Squire's vocals
were pretty ragged too, which says something. The whole idea of Horn
being a viable frontman seems to have been wishful thinking on Squire's
part. Don't you remember that 'Trevor's nightmare' story Squire relates
on YesYears?
Gordon McFee
Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) writes:
> In article <4gid3b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> moong...@aol.com (MoongateCl) wrote:
>>In article <4gf0mu$f...@news.ox.ac.uk>, some...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Henry
>>Potts) writes:
>>
>>
>>>Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
>>>significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
>>>Clifford.
>>
>>around 20 years.
>>
> _Going for the one_ and _Tormato_, the wreckage of "Awaken" and the
> shame of "Madrigal".... Little Jon should definitely have kept Big
> Steve as his favorite partner.
>
What is this "wreckage"? I happen to think it's a good song, organ
part especially (unless you are referring to a different part of the song)
--
"The Heart and Mind united in a single, perfect sphere." - Rush
"And any fool knows a dog needs a home, a shelter from pigs on the wing." - PF
"To whom does he speak? Maybe he's speaking to me." - Queensryche
"Death is the first dance, eternal." - Dream Theater
James Thomas Kirkhope
> Well it seems we have this animosities thus far:
>
> Kaye/Howe
> Kaye/everybody except Wakeman and possibly Squire
> Bruford/Squire (not a hatred, but not friends)
> Anderson/Moraz
> Rabin/Horn
>
> Does this appear accurate thus far?
>
> Lorne Murphy
Much speculation has centered on Howe/Rabin.
JTK
dmw
10077...@compuserve.com writes:
>Only Broof is not caught smoking during the actual _YesYears_ filming. In
>the 20 years between this clip and the _Union_ tour, he may have quit.
I believe BB is still a smoker. After the KC show in Austin last fall,
Bill threw a cigarette on the ground when he came out to sign autographs.
dmw
Gary Hobish
>
>Suggestion: a new soap opera...Tales From Topographic Oceans, featuring
>an endless cast of spoiled, narcissistic musicians who badmouth each other
>in the press in the hopes of landing that One Big Deal....
>
...and the fans who love them. On the next "Carnie."
--
/// To receive notices of performances by \\\
||| San Franciso's TRUE MARGRIT, |||
||| send email to gho...@tscan.com |||
"Wherever you go, there you are!" (Buckaroo Banzi)
Steven Sullivan
: In article <4grcif$4...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
: >Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: Have you bothered to compare these versions (which I assume to be from _Age
: of the Buggles_) with Anderson's originals. Do that and you will notice
: that Trev's rendition of "And you and I" is a *note for note* carbon-copy
: of Jon's. He does not even hint of a narrower voice range.
My ears tell me different. Horn sounds hard-pressed to reach most of the
high notes.
: >The guy gave it the old college try, god bless 'im, but
: >only Squire (and rabid Panthers, naturally) seemed to think Horn was
: >really cutting it as a touring vocalist/frontman.
: Madison Squire Garden audience too, if you judge by their reactions.
: The booing actually starts when Downes plays "Video killed the radio star",
: fourth track of the CD and (if I remember the setlist correctly) must have
: been the sixth or seventh in the concert.
Most of the truly disaffected didn't even bother to show; there were lots
of empty seats (though the shows were ostensibly sold out, as tix went on
sale *before* the line-up change was announced.) Besides, Yes audiences
are, if nothing else, a pretty accomodating lot, given the revolving
membership structure of the band.
: >And Squire's vocals
: >were pretty ragged too, which says something. The whole idea of Horn
: >being a viable frontman seems to have been wishful thinking on Squire's
: >part. Don't you remember that 'Trevor's nightmare' story Squire relates
: >on YesYears?
: Come one Surly, you were the first one to testify that Fishy Chrissy has
: "dry wit", and that was just an example of it. Really stupefying to see you
: take this at face value. And you know as well as me that what pissed off
: Trevor was the prejudiced reaction of many British Yes fans. I doubt that
: Howe would have had such a good time on this tour (and he does testify of
: this in _YesYears_) and enjoyed himself so well with Geoff and Trev if the
: music had really been so bad.
I didn't say the music was *so bad*. I said Horn was not *so good* as you
distempered panthers are always yowling he is. Capische? And I see no
reason not to accept the nightmare tale at face value; it was Squire
relating a story Horn told him, after all. It would not surprise me at
all if Horn found the whole experience rather scarifying. In retrospect,
the whole idea -- of having someone with virtually zero concert performing
experience and demonstrably more limited vocal range step into Anderrson's
shoes -- was a bit nutty.
Yann Clochec
ant...@atlantis.actrix.gen.nz (Anthony Hobbs) wrote:
>In article <4gf042$f...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
>Henry Potts <some...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>To be more detailed: Horn didn't want to *perform* any more and wanted
>>to concentrate on producing. He did however finish off the second Buggles
>>album, _Adventures in Modern Recording_, on which he sings.
>
>This brings me to a question that's nagged me for a while. Could some
>loyal Panther archivist tell me: what exactly is St. Trevor's middle
>name? He's credited on _Pleasuredome_ as "Trevor C. Horn"...
Cuthbert ? Wouldn't that be cute ?
And I took this from Stephen King 8-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Frog In The White Car - Knight Commander, Order of the Panther - Soundchaser and Cirkusmaster
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Don't you see the children they're just like you, they want everything to be fine
But they let it slide and the laughing lets you know that smiling breaks the rules - Grace Slick
Yann Clochec
ant...@atlantis.actrix.gen.nz (Anthony Hobbs) wrote:
>In article <4gf0mu$f...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
>Henry Potts <some...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> : Anderson/Moraz
>>
>> Perhaps once...
>
>I wouldn't call the Jon/Pat rift so much "hate", as "this band ain't big
>enough for two space cases".
Too bad, they could have done wonderful music together. Moraz' brand
of musical wierdness would fit exactly the "dark side" of Little Jon.
But maybe he was not ready to pursue in the "Gates"/"Soundchaser" vein
and found the comic-elves trip more appropriate.
Yann Clochec
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) wrote:
>:have, Steven. Horn is weak (and perhaps even more than that) on "Yours
>:is no disgrace" but he is quite good on "And you and I". Compare the _Age
>:of the Buggles_ version with both the original and the _Yessongs_
>:versions, and you will see that there are very few differences in singing
>:abilities, even if there are lots in style. In fact, what amazes me the
>:most in "classic Yes" fans' reactions to the _Drama_ tour is that Horn
>:took all the slamming. In this logic (which I do not share, you knwo
>:that), if something should really have been found "offensive", in
>:comparison to the previous line-up, that was Downes' keyboard playing,
>:not Horn's vocals. Howe too should have been the focus of some slamming,
>:because his style changed radically both on _Drama_ and on the tour.
>
>Now listen up, Yann, because I'm only going to repeat this ONE MORE TIME:
One more time for the world, Surly, hope you get the reference 8-)
>I was *at* one of the widely bootlegged shows (Madison Square Garden).
>And another show from the same tour. That's two shows I was *at*. Plus,
>I have the bootleg to shore up my memory. Which is that on phrases like
>'coming quickly to terms of all expression laid' Horn is screeching rather
>than singing.
Have you bothered to compare these versions (which I assume to be from _Age
of the Buggles_) with Anderson's originals. Do that and you will notice
that Trev's rendition of "And you and I" is a *note for note* carbon-copy
of Jon's. He does not even hint of a narrower voice range.
>The guy gave it the old college try, god bless 'im, but
>only Squire (and rabid Panthers, naturally) seemed to think Horn was
>really cutting it as a touring vocalist/frontman.
Madison Squire Garden audience too, if you judge by their reactions.
The booing actually starts when Downes plays "Video killed the radio star",
fourth track of the CD and (if I remember the setlist correctly) must have
been the sixth or seventh in the concert.
>And Squire's vocals
>were pretty ragged too, which says something. The whole idea of Horn
>being a viable frontman seems to have been wishful thinking on Squire's
>part. Don't you remember that 'Trevor's nightmare' story Squire relates
>on YesYears?
Come one Surly, you were the first one to testify that Fishy Chrissy has
"dry wit", and that was just an example of it. Really stupefying to see you
take this at face value. And you know as well as me that what pissed off
Trevor was the prejudiced reaction of many British Yes fans. I doubt that
Howe would have had such a good time on this tour (and he does testify of
this in _YesYears_) and enjoyed himself so well with Geoff and Trev if the
music had really been so bad.
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Yann Clochec
ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee) wrote:
>
>Yann Clochec (10077...@compuserve.com) writes:
>> In article <4gid3b$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>> moong...@aol.com (MoongateCl) wrote:
>>>In article <4gf0mu$f...@news.ox.ac.uk>, some...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Henry
>>>Potts) writes:
>>>
>>>>Rabin/Squire/White/Wakeman/?Offord all seem good friends
>>> ~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>>Anderson seem to infuriate everyone, but they all love him :) More
>>>>significantly, Anderson seems better friends with Vangelis and Matt
>>>>Clifford.
>>>
>>>According to Rick's autobiography, he & Jon have been solid friends for
>>>around 20 years.
>>>
>> Since Rick came back, then ? Which would explain his front-role in
>> _Going for the one_ and _Tormato_, the wreckage of "Awaken" and the
>> shame of "Madrigal".... Little Jon should definitely have kept Big
>> Steve as his favorite partner.
>>
>
> What is this "wreckage"? I happen to think it's a good song, organ
>part especially (unless you are referring to a different part of the song)
No, I'm specifically referring to the organ part in the first place, to
Howe's mindless noodling around and around the organ in the second place.
The first four minutes or so of "Awaken" are good (the part that Moraz
wrote, you know 8-). The rest is just the most over-rated Yes song (and
possibly prog song) ever.
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Frog In The White Car - Knight Commander, Order of the Panther - Soundchaser and Cirkusmaster
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Jon Hinchliffe
>As an intern at VH1 a few summers back, I had the opportunity to work
>with Dan Hedges (I worked with him for a few months before I made the
>connection). He was the press manager for the band. You can't really
>get much closer than that (on the road at least). Does "as accurate
>as the English front line" mean very accurate or not accurate?
At the time England were not doing very well (I still thinks thats the
case) So I got the impression inaccurate.
Jon
(Am I the only fan of NWOBHM Rock group Praying Mantis on the net?)
Steven Sullivan
: >Sources close to the band (e.g. Hedges)
: Was Hedges close to the band? When I got Wakeman to sign the book he
: also wrote "This is about as accurate as the English front line"
: I would be interested in what comments he has put in other books
Heges was the publicity man with Yes from 1977 through 79 or so; when I
spoke with him back in the early 809's, he said he'd spent all of the
making of GftO with the band, and had become quite chummy with Squire.
He claimed not to have hung out much at all with Rick.