Ritual Showing
JJ (UK)
which member of Yes it was who was doing the "RRRRRRA!" growling/shouting
during the percussion section.
I'm pretty sure it isn't Jon, almost as convinced it's not Chris (both
voices are too weak), doesn't sound like Steve too much so that leaves
Patrick Moraz or Alan White.
Any ideas anyone?
JJ (UK)
gmelin
JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote in article
<e0X0v9#i#GA....@nih2naad.prod2.compuserve.com>...
Given that it's part of the drum solo, I can't imagine that it would be
anyone other than White. I never saw "Ritual" live, but it seems it would
be pretty silly to have White wailing away on the drums and then have, say,
Anderson standing there growling into a mic.
gmelin
Steven Sullivan
No one is actually growling ; it's a synth.
--
-S.
Shut up, he explained.
P & G
gmelin <gme...@csu.edu> wrote in article
<01be8c0f$29c49620$da155682@gmelin>...
>
>
> JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote in article
> <e0X0v9#i#GA....@nih2naad.prod2.compuserve.com>...
> | Having just listened to Ritual on Yesshows I was wondering of anyone
knew
> | which member of Yes it was who was doing the "RRRRRRA!"
growling/shouting
> | during the percussion section.
<snip>
> Given that it's part of the drum solo, I can't imagine that it would be
> anyone other than White. I never saw "Ritual" live, but it seems it
would
> be pretty silly to have White wailing away on the drums and then have,
say,
> Anderson standing there growling into a mic.
>
> gmelin
>
I think I read somewhere (Henry?) that it was actually some kind of synth
making those growly sounds.
-Ginny.
phildoc
> <e0X0v9#i#GA....@nih2naad.prod2.compuserve.com>...
> | Having just listened to Ritual on Yesshows I was wondering of anyone knew
> | which member of Yes it was who was doing the "RRRRRRA!" growling/shouting
> | during the percussion section.
> |
> | voices are too weak), doesn't sound like Steve too much so that leaves
> | Patrick Moraz or Alan White.
>
> anyone other than White. I never saw "Ritual" live, but it seems it would
> be pretty silly to have White wailing away on the drums and then have, say,
> Anderson standing there growling into a mic.
>
> gmelin
>
Didn't everyone have a percussion part in that solo?
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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JJ (UK)
P & G wrote in message <01be8c0c$c5bf5720$f71e9cd1@default>...
>
>I think I read somewhere (Henry?) that it was actually some kind of synth
>making those growly sounds.
>
>-Ginny.
Steve & Ginny
Actually that makes a lot of sense but it sounds too human (consider the
state of the art of synths those days) to be just a synth on its own so
perhaps there was some 'synthification' to the voice...
It also makes sense that it's Alan's voice, particularly if you think how
difficult it would be for someone else to tie themselves in with the drum
'stabs'. I was just hoping there was some documentary evidence to support
the theory.
JJ
Peter Anderson
gmelin <gme...@csu.edu> wrote in article
<01be8c0f$29c49620$da155682@gmelin>...
>
>
> JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote in article
> <e0X0v9#i#GA....@nih2naad.prod2.compuserve.com>...
> | Having just listened to Ritual on Yesshows I was wondering of anyone
knew
> | which member of Yes it was who was doing the "RRRRRRA!"
growling/shouting
> | during the percussion section.
> |
> | I'm pretty sure it isn't Jon, almost as convinced it's not Chris (both
> | voices are too weak), doesn't sound like Steve too much so that leaves
> | Patrick Moraz or Alan White.
>
> Given that it's part of the drum solo, I can't imagine that it would be
> anyone other than White. I never saw "Ritual" live, but it seems it
would
> be pretty silly to have White wailing away on the drums and then have,
say,
> Anderson standing there growling into a mic.
>
> gmelin
> -----------------
This segment of Ritual, live had all the band going bananas on percussion,(
except keyboards) not just Alan. The only live version I've seen is the QPR
video and I can't see anyone doing these vocal sections, possibly Eddie
Offord is adding these sounds from tape.
Also if they played the whole of Ritual in concert I could die a happy man
:-)
Peter.
Steven Sullivan
There is documentary evidence that White/Yes was using drum synths on the
mid-70's tours; they are mentioned in ane equipment list for the 1975 tour
in 'Musician' magazine, for example. They were available in some form or
another as early as 1973 (and possibly before that) the first notable use
in prog I can think of was on ELP's 'Toccata'. My only question is
whether the growly synth was being triggered by White's drums or by those
being played by Anderson and Squire during that section of 'Ritual'.
If you want to hear the same 'screaming' electronic noise, listen closely
to scenes featuring the Tie-Fighters in the old Star Wars movies --
mid-late 70's vintage, again.
Steven Sullivan
On the Jersey City 1976 show version of Ritual there's a whole 'nother set
of electronic noises being triggered, but the 'growl' pops in and out
occasionally too. This version is actually quite a bit wilder than the
QPR or the Yesshows versions, noise-wise.
reel...@my-dejanews.com
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
> >Given that it's part of the drum solo, I can't imagine that it would be
> >anyone other than White. I never saw "Ritual" live, but it seems it would
> >be pretty silly to have White wailing away on the drums and then have, say,
> >Anderson standing there growling into a mic.
>
> No one is actually growling ; it's a synth.
Are you sure about this? on Yessows it sounds awfully live to me. Have the
band members never talked about this before?
~A
reel...@my-dejanews.com
> >Given that it's part of the drum solo, I can't imagine that it would be
> >anyone other than White. I never saw "Ritual" live, but it seems it would
> >be pretty silly to have White wailing away on the drums and then have, say,
> >Anderson standing there growling into a mic.
>
> No one is actually growling ; it's a synth.
Are you sure about this? on Yesshows it sounds awfully live to me. Have the
VidEOSMM
hear obvious drum synths at one point, and Patrick adding some
noodling/sequence on Yesshows.
Perhaps this was an early case of a triggered sample? Someone should track down
Alan to ask him about this.
Bill M.
Bill Mutschler
VidEOS
David Westbay
>
>Having just listened to Ritual on Yesshows I was wondering of anyone
knew
>which member of Yes it was who was doing the "RRRRRRA!"
growling/shouting
>during the percussion section.
>
>I'm pretty sure it isn't Jon, almost as convinced it's not Chris (both
>voices are too weak), doesn't sound like Steve too much so that leaves
>Patrick Moraz or Alan White.
>
>
>JJ (UK)
I don't have any evidence to back this up, and I was too far from the
stage to see anything well when I saw the tour that the Yesshows version
was taken from, but I always thought that those growls were coming from a
vocoder (a synth connected to a microphone that would alter the sound of
the voice coming through the mic). It seems to me that the most likely
candidates for using this vocoder would be Anderson or Moraz.
But this is pure speculation on my part.
Dave Westbay
Henry Potts
>on Yessows it sounds awfully live to me. Have the
>band members never talked about this before?
Yessows? Is that the album on which Squire and Wakeman make pigs of
themselves...
--
Henry
HRMMGY
>candidates for using this vocoder would be Anderson or Moraz.
>
>
I saw the concert several times and agree--MM
JJ (UK)
>Didn't everyone have a percussion part in that solo?
Sounds 'big' & complicated enough doesn't it?
JJ (UK)
JJ (UK)
Peter Anderson wrote in message <01be8c3d$c81278a0$e9ca28c3@default>...
>
>The only live version I've seen is the QPR video
Okay that's the second mention of "QPR" except that you specify it's a
video...
I've never heard of this video. Is it an official release or a bootie?
If it's official do you know if it's available in the UK?
JJ (UK)
Steven Sullivan
JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>Peter Anderson wrote in message <01be8c3d$c81278a0$e9ca28c3@default>...
>>
>>The only live version I've seen is the QPR video
>
>Okay that's the second mention of "QPR" except that you specify it's a
>video...
>
>I've never heard of this video. Is it an official release or a bootie?
Both.
It was released in Japan under Brian Lane's auspices, which made Yes
unhappy, but they seem not to be fighting it.
>If it's official do you know if it's available in the UK?
Only as a Japanese import AFAIK.
Peter Anderson
JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote in article
<#9TYgCWj#GA....@nih2naac.compuserve.com>...
>
> >Didn't everyone have a percussion part in that solo?
>
>
> Sounds 'big' & complicated enough doesn't it?
>
> JJ (UK)
>
>
> --------------------
This thread has given me a good excuse (not that I need any) to listen more
to the greatest peice of music ever written (I'm nothing if not objective).
Listening to Cobo Hall, '74 I noticed that it doesn't have any of the
"growling", but some of the drums sounds' sound as if there are being put
through some kind of synth./ distortion.
Every time I listen to Ritual, the part where they come out of the
percussion section and settle back down to "Hold me my love, hold me today,
call me round..." it almost makes me cry, it's just so beautiful. And I was
thinking that during my funeral (which should hopefully be some time off
yet) that while I've got a captive audience of family and friends, if I'm
going to take this golden opportunity to make them listen to a piece of Yes
music, then this part of Ritual will be it.
Peter.
Peter Anderson
Steven Sullivan <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote in article
<7fplbh$k...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>...
> =================
I got a copy of it from a friend who had the Japanese import laser disc, I
wasn't aware if you could get an "official" copy on video.
The sound quality defecits of this video are well documented and I remember
it being mentioned on amy before that it was probably taken from a
soundboard input as oppossed to the actual sound that the audience heard.
So I was wondering if any *audience* boots of the concert exist that we
would be able to compare, although I've never seen any.
Peter.
Steven Sullivan
Peter Anderson <p.and...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Steven Sullivan <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote in article
><7fplbh$k...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>...
>> In article <eN5FQEWj#GA....@nih2naac.compuserve.com>,
>> JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Peter Anderson wrote in message <01be8c3d$c81278a0$e9ca28c3@default>...
>> >>
>> >>The only live version I've seen is the QPR video
>> >
>> >Okay that's the second mention of "QPR" except that you specify it's a
>> >video...
>> >
>> >I've never heard of this video. Is it an official release or a bootie?
>>
>> Both.
>>
>> It was released in Japan under Brian Lane's auspices, which made Yes
>> unhappy, but they seem not to be fighting it.
>>
>> >If it's official do you know if it's available in the UK?
>>
>> Only as a Japanese import AFAIK.
>>
>> --
>> -S.
>> Shut up, he explained.
>> =================
>
>I got a copy of it from a friend who had the Japanese import laser disc, I
>wasn't aware if you could get an "official" copy on video.
THe Japanese import laser disc *is* the 'official' copy -- to the extent
that there is such a thing.
JJ (UK)
>>Okay that's the second mention of "QPR" except that you specify it's a
>>video...
>>
>>I've never heard of this video. Is it an official release or a bootie?
>
>Both.
>
>It was released in Japan under Brian Lane's auspices, which made Yes
>unhappy, but they seem not to be fighting it.
>
>>If it's official do you know if it's available in the UK?
>
>Only as a Japanese import AFAIK.
If anyone in the UK has ANY idea where I might be able to get hold of this
please let me know.
BTW, what is the full title? I'm assuming two things:
1 It's not 'officially' called QPR and
2 That QPR does NOT stand for Queens Park Rangers in this instance!
JJ (UK)
Steven Sullivan
JJ (UK) <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>>Okay that's the second mention of "QPR" except that you specify it's a
>>>video...
>>>
>>>I've never heard of this video. Is it an official release or a bootie?
>>
>>Both.
>>
>>It was released in Japan under Brian Lane's auspices, which made Yes
>>unhappy, but they seem not to be fighting it.
>>
>>>If it's official do you know if it's available in the UK?
>>
>>Only as a Japanese import AFAIK.
>
>If anyone in the UK has ANY idea where I might be able to get hold of this
>please let me know.
CDnow.com lists it on their site. $83 for the VHS, $96 for the laserdisc.
I presume that's for the whole show. Whether they can really get it, or whether
it's in backorder limbo, I don't know.
>
>BTW, what is the full title? I'm assuming two things:
>
>1 It's not 'officially' called QPR and
It is. IT's called "Live 1975 QPR" in the CDNow catalog.
>2 That QPR does NOT stand for Queens Park Rangers in this instance!
In fact, it does. That's where the gig was played.
Ken Robertson
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:07:28 +0100, "JJ (UK)" <not...@nowhere.com>
gmelin
HRMMGY <hrm...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990422214951...@ng51.aol.com>...
| >It seems to me that the most likely
| >candidates for using this vocoder would be Anderson or Moraz.
| >
| >
|
| I saw the concert several times and agree--MM
I don't understand why everybody seems to think it couldn't be White. On
_Yesshows_ there's a series of "yah yah yah" which time perfectly with a
big drum break. C'mon, grunting while wailing away on the drums is not
unreasonable, whereas I can't get past how stupid it would look to have
Anderson just standing there going, "ugh!" As a drummer, the idea of White
making the noises makes sense, but the idea of someone else doing it just
doesn't. Besides, that deep growl couldn't possibly come out of Anderson,
and does not sound sufficiently processed to be a Vocorder; those are
pretty distinctive. I accept I could be wrong on this, but it makes
massively more sense for the grunting during the drum solo to come from the
+drummer+ rather the guys standing there shaking things.
gmelin
Peter Anderson
gmelin <gme...@csu.edu> wrote in article
<01be8e12$74082940$57155682@gmelin>...
> --------------------
As I mentioned in a previous post, Anderson ( and Howe and Squire) are all
playing percussion during this section, it's not just a straight forward
drum solo, but still at that, I can't see him doing any vocal parts on the
video.
Peter.
Ken Robertson
WhiteFish section on the OYE tour.
( as Squire was doing the Moses-looking hands up thing " )
I don't think he was mic'ed,
but he certainly was vocalizing something
In fact it looked like he was doing something
very simular to the Ritual / growling stuff.
gmelin
Ken Robertson <kro...@NOSPAMdhc.net> wrote in article
<D2CED91ACE1CB96C.095F5155...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
| He was vocalizing something during the
| WhiteFish section on the OYE tour.
| ( as Squire was doing the Moses-looking hands up thing " )
| I don't think he was mic'ed,
The drumset is.
| but he certainly was vocalizing something
| In fact it looked like he was doing something
| very simular to the Ritual / growling stuff.
gmelin
gmelin
Peter Anderson <p.and...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in article
<01be8e24$13867ba0$d5c428c3@default>...
| > I don't understand why everybody seems to think it couldn't be White.
On
| > _Yesshows_ there's a series of "yah yah yah" which time perfectly with
a
| > big drum break. C'mon, grunting while wailing away on the drums is not
| > unreasonable, whereas I can't get past how stupid it would look to have
| > Anderson just standing there going, "ugh!" As a drummer, the idea of
| White
| > making the noises makes sense, but the idea of someone else doing it
just
| > doesn't. Besides, that deep growl couldn't possibly come out of
| Anderson,
| > and does not sound sufficiently processed to be a Vocorder; those are
| > pretty distinctive. I accept I could be wrong on this, but it makes
| > massively more sense for the grunting during the drum solo to come from
| the
| > +drummer+ rather the guys standing there shaking things.
| >
| > gmelin
| > --------------------
|
| As I mentioned in a previous post, Anderson ( and Howe and Squire) are
all
| playing percussion during this section,
That's what I meant by "shaking things."
it's not just a straight forward
| drum solo, but still at that, I can't see him doing any vocal parts on
the
| video.
Is his mouth tightly closed the entire time? He doesn't have to stop
playing and lean into a mic. The drumset is mic'ed, quite able to pick up
any noises he'd care to make.
gmelin
Steven Sullivan
That clearly, over the din of the drums themselves? Not likely.
It's synths.
gmelin
Steven Sullivan <sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote in article
<7fst95$1...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>...
| >Is his mouth tightly closed the entire time? He doesn't have to stop
| >playing and lean into a mic. The drumset is mic'ed, quite able to pick
up
| >any noises he'd care to make.
|
| That clearly, over the din of the drums themselves? Not likely.
Microphone technology is astonishing, even in the 70's. They could easily
have set up a mic to pick him up which would not require him to lean into
it or anything.
| It's synths.
In the 70's I don't think synth technology was suffiecienct to produce that
close a simlucrum of the human voice. As I've said, I could be wrong, but,
unless someone who was really involved clears this up, I still say it makes
more sense for it to be White than someone standing off to the side. Let
me put it this way: +why+ would they do that? "Hey, Jon, while we do this
why don't you stand at a mic and sound like you're passing a kidney stone!"
gmelin -- former sound engineer and synth programmer -- would really like
to find out what it really was
CountV
> In the 70's I don't think synth technology was suffiecienct to produce that
> close a simlucrum of the human voice.
Just listen to Jean Jaques Perrey's "Gossipo Perpetuo" from Moog Indigo,
released in 1970, which is built around a great number of voice-like Moog
sounds, and which incidentally is a definite contender for the title of
'most irritating song ever made"[1]. Also, I remeber some quite human
voice-sounding stuff on one Tomita track (Gollywog's Cakewalk, I believe),
which is almost certainly early 70's.
CountV
[1] I'll put up an MP3 of this, if anyone's interested.
NP: Sheila Chandra - A BoneCroneDrone
--
"The guy who said that money can't buy happiness has been shopping in the
wrong places" - David Lee Roth
Peter Anderson
> it's not just a straight forward
> | drum solo, but still at that, I can't see him doing any vocal parts on
> the
> | video.
>
> Is his mouth tightly closed the entire time? He doesn't have to stop
> playing and lean into a mic. The drumset is mic'ed, quite able to pick
up
> any noises he'd care to make.
>
> gmelin
> -------------
Please don't go all defensive on me, I was actually agreeing with you. I
should have been clearer, but I meant I couldn't see Jon doing any vocals.
Peter.
gmelin
"Peter Anderson" <p.and...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > it's not just a straight forward
> > | drum solo, but still at that, I can't see him doing any vocal parts on
> > the
> > | video.
> >
> > Is his mouth tightly closed the entire time? He doesn't have to stop
> > playing and lean into a mic. The drumset is mic'ed, quite able to pick
> up
> > any noises he'd care to make.
> Please don't go all defensive on me, I was actually agreeing with you. I
> should have been clearer, but I meant I couldn't see Jon doing any vocals.
Ah, okay. When you said "him" you seemed to be talking about White. I
wasn't getting "all defensive," I was asking a serious question. For the
people who are sure it can't be White, I just want to know if he (White) in
fact never opens his mouth, which would certainly lay my theory to rest.
I've never seen any of the films, so I don't know. This is actually one of
the more unusual arguments here, since for once it appears that no one is
arguing from direct knowledge, but rather, "It sounds like. . ." or, "It
would make sense that. . ." or, "It didn't look like. . ."
gmelin
JJ (UK)
>
>In fact, it does. That's where the gig was played.
>
Blimey! That must be the best attendance QPR have had there for years then!
(snigger)
JJ (UK)
Steven Sullivan
gmelin <gme...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>In article <01be8e8c$07bdd6c0$e0c428c3@default>,
> "Peter Anderson" <p.and...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > it's not just a straight forward
>> > | drum solo, but still at that, I can't see him doing any vocal parts on
>> > the
>> > | video.
>> >
>> > Is his mouth tightly closed the entire time? He doesn't have to stop
>> > playing and lean into a mic. The drumset is mic'ed, quite able to pick
>> up
>> > any noises he'd care to make.
>
>> Please don't go all defensive on me, I was actually agreeing with you. I
>> should have been clearer, but I meant I couldn't see Jon doing any vocals.
>
>Ah, okay. When you said "him" you seemed to be talking about White. I
>wasn't getting "all defensive," I was asking a serious question. For the
>people who are sure it can't be White, I just want to know if he (White) in
>fact never opens his mouth, which would certainly lay my theory to rest.
>I've never seen any of the films, so I don't know. This is actually one of
>the more unusual arguments here, since for once it appears that no one is
>arguing from direct knowledge, but rather, "It sounds like. . ." or, "It
>would make sense that. . ." or, "It didn't look like. . ."
Have you listened to the part in question lately? It's mostly a low,
monotonic moaning punctuated by 'shouts' -- I think you'd really have to
be close-miked to pick up the 'moaning' as clearly is it sounds on record,
if it was an actual vocalist.
On the 1976 Roosevelt Stadium tape, there are portions where you can hear
a synth warble turning into the 'moaning', though it's much more fleeting
than on the Cobo Hall version.
P & G
saw:
C Squire with some drum sticks,
J Anderson with drum sticks and "shaking" something
P Moraz making all sorts off synth noises
not much of S Howe
lots of flashing lights and smoke
some sort of lighted crab thing and...
I didn't specifically see Alan (or anyone else for that matter) vocalising.
Inconclusive from the QPR video...(unless I watch it in slo-mo) : P
-Ginny.
JJ (UK)
From The Edge site last night to see if I could get a definitive answer.
Mike has already replied:
>From viewing the QPR video it appears to be Patrick. --Mike
Man I gotta get that video!!
JJ (UK)
gmelin wrote in message <01be8e6d$6b8f85a0$LocalHost@gmelin>...
David Westbay
>
>I e-mailed Alan, Jon, Chris and Steve as well as Mike Tiano of the
Notes
>From The Edge site last night to see if I could get a definitive answer.
>
>Mike has already replied:
>
> >From viewing the QPR video it appears to be Patrick. --Mike
>
I am leaning towards thinking it was most likely Patrick as well rather
than Anderson. But we must remember that the QPR show was recorded in
1975 and Yesshows was recorded in 1976, so things could have changed
between tours. I won't rule out the possibility that Alan did it, but I
agree with Steven that the growls sound much too clear on Yesshows to be
something picked up by the drumset mics, and I haven't heard anyone say
that they remember Alan having a vocal mic on the 1976 tour.
I will see if I can find out anything from Patrick's camp.
Dave Westbay
JJ (UK)
Steven Sullivan wrote in message <7fqfvd$l...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>...
>>If anyone in the UK has ANY idea where I might be able to get hold of this
>>please let me know.
>
>CDnow.com lists it on their site. $83 for the VHS, $96 for the laserdisc.
>I presume that's for the whole show. Whether they can really get it, or
whether
>it's in backorder limbo, I don't know.
*cough cough*
*splutter splutter*
$83 = £51!
Good grief!
Much as I love Yes, I'm finding it really difficult to justify paying that
much with a 6-month old daughter to feed (oh, and an Amiga to get fixed).
Now I'm depressed! :(
JJ (UK)
JJ (UK)
David Westbay wrote in message
<7g27ov$140a$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>I am leaning towards thinking it was most likely Patrick as well rather
>than Anderson. But we must remember that the QPR show was recorded in
>1975 and Yesshows was recorded in 1976, so things could have changed
>between tours. I won't rule out the possibility that Alan did it, but I
>agree with Steven that the growls sound much too clear on Yesshows to be
>something picked up by the drumset mics, and I haven't heard anyone say
>that they remember Alan having a vocal mic on the 1976 tour.
>
>I will see if I can find out anything from Patrick's camp.
>
I was wondering if you'd had any luck with getting info from Patrick's
camp...
JJ (UK)
JJ (UK)
You rememer this thread don't you folks? Who makes those strange guttural
growling noises during the Yesshows version of Ritual?
Well I've sussed it. I've finally got the QPR video converted to PAL and
although you never see Jon very clearly you can make out that it is him.
He has the microphone right on front of his face while he's banging away on
the drums with the rest of them while no-one else does so it's definitely
him.
Phew! Didn't take long did it!?
JJ (UK)
JJ (UK)
making the 'Wwwrrraah!' noises during the percussion section Ritual on
Yesshows.
There were many theories bandied about but we came to no really positive
conclusion.
However, having got the QPR video I've had a look and I reckon it's Jon.
He's in darkness during it but you can see he's the only one near a
microphone (in fact it's right where he'd need it to get the noises
heard...!) and let's face it, he's the only one with the nerve and
conviction!
JJ (UK)
David Westbay
I think that anyone who happens to talk to Jon (or Chris or Alan or
Steve) during this tour should ask if they remember who did the "growls"
on that tour. Of course, they may *not* remember, but it couldn't hurt to
try!
Dave Westbay