Bad Times at EMI
David Rheault
to recent press articles. In addition to ranking last among the big five
record companies (in the USA) it appears that they continue to rely too much
on aging artists way past their prime (hint: don't expect them to sign YES)
and they've also suffered from some recent bad business decisions (recall
that they signed Mariah "Glitter" Carey who's release for them tanked, this
amounted to about a $65 million mistake).
In order to rectify the situation they plan to: lay off/fire nearly 20% of
staff (about 1,800-1,900 jobs, one quarter in the USA), slim down the
bloated salaries of over-paid single hungry suit promo-meisters (aka
marketers), and focus on newer talent to help the company in their search
for consistent multi-million-selling artists.
dcr
Chris Oberst
"David Rheault" <drhe...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:a7ec4q$o24$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> In order to rectify the situation they plan to: lay off/fire nearly 20% of
> staff (about 1,800-1,900 jobs, one quarter in the USA), slim down the
> bloated salaries of over-paid single hungry suit promo-meisters (aka
> marketers), and focus on newer talent to help the company in their search
> for consistent multi-million-selling artists.
Does this mean there won't be a follow-up to Return to the Centre of the
Earth??? :)
Christopher Oberst
Dave Westbay
Not at all. It just means that:
1. The Voyage to the Center of the Earth That Came After Those
Previous Jaunts will be released on Rick's private label, Excessively
Prolific Records
2. Instead of the London Symphony Orchestra, it will feature The
Pasteurized Processed Synthetic Cheese Food Orchestra, a k a Rick,
Adam and Oliver Wakeman on a battery of Casio keyboards
3. It will feature guest appearances by Ashley Holt, Gordon Neville,
and whoever sounds best at "open mic night" at the Turnip & Jackalope
pub on the Isle of Man next week.
4. The cover art will be a Polaroid photo of Rick in a tattered
sequined cape, standing in front of a grade-school diorama of Carlsbad
Caverns.
5. The world concert premiere of TVTTCOTETCATOJ will be held on open
mic night at the Turnip & Jackalope pub on the Isle of Man
approximately six months after the CD is released.
Dave Westbay
Chris Oberst
"Dave Westbay" <yes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31a28ce0.02032...@posting.google.com...
> "Chris Oberst" <acob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<F3zm8.192167$uv5.16...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
> > Does this mean there won't be a follow-up to Return to the Centre of the
> > Earth??? :)
> >
> > Christopher Oberst
>
> Not at all. It just means that:
>
> 1. The Voyage to the Center of the Earth That Came After Those
> Previous Jaunts will be released on Rick's private label, Excessively
> Prolific Records
[snip]
LOL!
Actually, Rick might have an opportunity to work on his next masterpiece:
"The Other Six Wives of Henry VIII"
Christopher Oberst
Nic Caciappo
and trying to get me to help. Some of you "fans" (fanatics?) are so full of shite.
About EMI- I hope they can weather the storm, because they did put some effort into releases by Jon (Change We Must), Rick
(Return), Steve Hackett (Midsummer), Paul McCartney (Standing Stone), Ian Anderson...... all of which are in my CD
collection. Meanwhile, they give too good of a deal to Mariah Carey. Who would have known at the time she would tank so
badly? There is a fellow at EMI, a friend of Jon's and Rick's, who is very respected in the business. I hope he keeps his
job, because he's one of the few true music lovers I found to be employed by a major label, and a real great Yes fan. These
are rough times for musicians we appreciated in the 70's and 80's. Any help they can get is a blessing. EMI helped Jon do an
album he really hoped to do and the same for Rick with "Return".
It looks like us Yes fans or "Prog" fans are about to experience what it's like to be "Big Band/ Swing" fans, decades
removed from the peak popularity of the genre..... no airplay, very little sales. EMI tried, and then assholes slam
"Return", which was a very good effort from Rick. It wasn't a Yes album, but what do you expect? Open Your Eyes.........
hmmmmm
Nic
Chris Oberst
"Nic Caciappo" <nic...@mlode.com> wrote in message
news:3C9B9790...@mlode.com...
> This is very nice- coming from you Dave Westbay, who wanted Rick for some
SLO anniversary shindig you were putting together
> and trying to get me to help.
Evidently humor is a rare commodity at the Cacciapo household. I thought
Dave's comment was quite funny, actually.
> About EMI- I hope they can weather the storm, because they did put some
effort into releases by Jon (Change We Must), Rick
> (Return), Steve Hackett (Midsummer), Paul McCartney (Standing Stone), Ian
Anderson......
I don't think anyone here wants to see them go under. Of course, none of
these releases exactly lit up the charts, and a major label has a lot of
overhead that won't be taken care of with such a bunch of 'boutique'
releases. Although I don't listen to much mainstream music anymore, I can
fully understand why labels aim at a broader audience--they have to.
> collection. Meanwhile, they give too good of a deal to Mariah Carey. Who
would have known at the time she would tank so
> badly?
She was already on the downslope when they signed her. I don't believe her
previous Sony album had done as well as her early work. Of course, compared
to the Michael Jackson sh*t sandwich that Sony ate last year, Mariah's album
wasn't such a flop.
>.....assholes slam
> "Return", which was a very good effort from Rick.
Errr, no it wasn't. I can only remember one or two others besides yourself
that gave a positive review here back when it came out. Maybe my memory is
bad. It's not worth searching Google. Rick had an opportunity to do
something fantastic, and he turned out a turkey (IMHO). "Dance of a
Thousand Lights" is really cool, but most of the rest is just simply awful.
Of course, I've never thought that well of the original "Journey", so that
might mean something. I would have preferred to see Rick work in a mostly
instrumental context and actually use the orchestra and chorus as something
other than padding---kinda like Yes did on Magnification.
>It wasn't a Yes album, but what do you expect? Open Your Eyes.........
Hell, Nic, it wasn't much better than that. Personally, I would prefer to
listen to OYE--at least it doesn't bring to mind a bad Monty Python skit.
Christopher Oberst
Paul Goodwin
>
> >.....assholes slam
> > "Return", which was a very good effort from Rick.
>
> Errr, no it wasn't. I can only remember one or two others besides
yourself
> that gave a positive review here back when it came out.
I think it's unfairly maligned, personally. With the exception of that
godawful Bonnie Tyler song I like every track, the title track, the Ozzy
song, the Rabin song, Dance of..., Floodflames, yeah I liked this album from
day one and still play it fairly often. Having Captain Picard as narrator
was an inspired move also ;-)
--
Paul
Dave Westbay
> and trying to get me to help. Some of you "fans" (fanatics?) are so full of shite.
Nic, it was all in fun. I think Rick is a great guy, a great musician,
and I'm very sorry that the SLO thing didn't work out. I would love to
have seen Return be a huge success for him and for EMI, even though I
didn't think Return was all that fabulous (I would grade it about a B-
or C+). My whole point was making fun of what happens when an artist
has to do things on a shoestring budget, without a major label to back
them. I wasn't dissing Rick specifically.
> About EMI- I hope they can weather the storm, because they did put some effort into releases by Jon (Change We Must), Rick
> (Return), Steve Hackett (Midsummer), Paul McCartney (Standing Stone), Ian Anderson...... all of which are in my CD
> collection. Meanwhile, they give too good of a deal to Mariah Carey. Who would have known at the time she would tank so
> badly? There is a fellow at EMI, a friend of Jon's and Rick's, who is very respected in the business. I hope he keeps his
> job, because he's one of the few true music lovers I found to be employed by a major label, and a real great Yes fan. These
> are rough times for musicians we appreciated in the 70's and 80's. Any help they can get is a blessing. EMI helped Jon do an
> album he really hoped to do and the same for Rick with "Return".
It is a good sign that there are fans of the music that you and I
appreciate in positions of authority at some labels: this fellow at
EMI, and the people at Beyond. It is not such a good sign that the
music-buying public doesn't support the artists that we like in
sufficient numbers to make these people at the labels look good. Is
there anything that can be done about that? If I could answer that
question, I would be very much in demand in the music industry, and at
the moment I'm not.
>
> It looks like us Yes fans or "Prog" fans are about to experience what it's like to be "Big Band/ Swing" fans, decades
> removed from the peak popularity of the genre..... no airplay, very little sales. EMI tried, and then assholes slam
> "Return", which was a very good effort from Rick. It wasn't a Yes album, but what do you expect? Open Your Eyes.........
I think we are already experiencing the "no airplay, very little
sales" condition in our niche. The "slams" that Return has taken have
had little to do with that, I expect. Let's face it, opinions are
going to differ about any artistic effort that is produced. Some
people loved Return, some didn't. Some love Magnification, some don't.
As Bruce Hornsby once said, that's just the way it is; some things
will never change.
Dave Westbay
Nic Caciappo
Nic
Nic Caciappo
Dave Westbay wrote:
> Nic Caciappo <nic...@mlode.com> wrote in message news:<3C9B9790...@mlode.com>...
> > This is very nice- coming from you Dave Westbay, who wanted Rick for some SLO anniversary shindig you were putting together
> > and trying to get me to help. Some of you "fans" (fanatics?) are so full of shite.
>
> Nic, it was all in fun. I think Rick is a great guy, a great musician,
> and I'm very sorry that the SLO thing didn't work out. I would love to
> have seen Return be a huge success for him and for EMI, even though I
> didn't think Return was all that fabulous (I would grade it about a B-
> or C+).
Gee...... I dunno. It all sounded very insulting to me. Not very nice or funny at all. I mean if you simply don't like a record I
have no problem with saying that at all. But the way you did it seemed very insulting, when afterall, many people did like the
album, though some simple close their eyes to that.
Nic
gmelin
Nic Caciappo <nic...@mlode.com> wrote in article
<3C9E3462...@mlode.com>...
| Gee...... I dunno. It all sounded very insulting to me. Not very nice or
funny at all. I mean if you simply don't like a record I
| have no problem with saying that at all. But the way you did it seemed
very insulting,
This from the guy who makes up insulting variations on the names of people
he doesn't like, eg "VanRabin," "Billy Surewould," or (my favorite) "Billy
Bag o' Rags." I still don't know what that last one means.
--
gmelin
History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people
who weren't there.
-- George Santayana
Henry Potts
>1. The Voyage to the Center of the Earth That Came After Those
>Previous Jaunts will be released on Rick's private label, Excessively
>Prolific Records
>3. It will feature guest appearances by Ashley Holt, Gordon Neville,
>and whoever sounds best at "open mic night" at the Turnip & Jackalope
>pub on the Isle of Man next week.
>4. The cover art will be a Polaroid photo of Rick in a tattered
>sequined cape, standing in front of a grade-school diorama of Carlsbad
>Caverns.
>5. The world concert premiere of TVTTCOTETCATOJ will be held on open
>mic night at the Turnip & Jackalope pub on the Isle of Man
>approximately six months after the CD is released.
LOL... except, to be pedantic, Wakeman has moved away from the Isle of
Man since his separation from Nina and now spends much of his year in
Milan.
--
Henry
NP: A s i a , _ A u r a _
Henry Potts
>This is very nice- coming from you Dave Westbay, who wanted Rick for
>some SLO anniversary shindig you were putting together and trying to
>get me to help. Some of you "fans" (fanatics?) are so full of shite.
A.m.y. has been rather tense of late. Perhaps we could all try to take
jokes less seriously?
>[...] It looks like us Yes fans or "Prog" fans are about to experience
>what it's like to be "Big Band/ Swing" fans, decades removed from the
>peak popularity of the genre..... no airplay, very little sales. EMI
>tried, and then assholes slam "Return", which was a very good effort
>from Rick. It wasn't a Yes album, but what do you expect? [...]
Might I suggest quite the reverse? Namely, that _Return..._ was a rather
poor album and that it was ill-conceived as a project. It wasn't really
a prog effort, more a melodic rock one, something that might have done
better in the 1980s. Prog as we knew it does not have a mass popularity:
it probably has more to do with '80s melodic rock than the current
mainstream, but melodic rock is in just as parlous a commercial state as
prog these days. However, there are bands doing well in the '00s who
have a certain connection to prog: post-rock is incredibly cool; acts
like Radiohead have put out albums like _Kid A_ (which seems to me to
have more to do with a putative prog ethos than anything Wakeman has put
out since the late '70s); some of the nu-metal bands get pretty
musically complicated (e.g. Chris Squire's favourite, Tool). Were I a
record label trying to re-launch a '70s progressive rock act today,
that's the direction I would be going for, not the melodic rock of
_Return to the Centre of the Earth_.
What strikes me as interesting is that, while some '70s prog acts could
relate to the 'intelligent dance music' scene in the '90s (Fripp
guesting with Future Sound of London, Hillage and Giraudy's System 7 and
other Gong crossovers etc.), there haven't been many older names
interfacing with post-rock. The only examples I can think of are the
rather obscure cases of Zeena Parkins working with Bjork on the latter's
_Vespertine_ and Dirk Campbell on Euphoria's two albums.
Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Sigur Ros are the talk of the
underground. After someone had heard _Lift Your Skinny Fists Like
Antennas to Heaven_ or _Agaetis Byjorn_, I would be embarrassed for prog
to be represented by an album as mainstream and, IMHO, as bad as _Return
to the Centre of the Earth_.
--
Henry
YesELPkCrimson
<< About EMI- I hope they can weather the storm, because they did put some
effort into releases by Jon (Change We Must), Rick (Return), Steve Hackett
(Midsummer), Paul McCartney (Standing Stone), Ian Anderson...... >>
I guess the news about EMI's difficulties doesn't bode well for this somewhat
outdated "What's New" blurb from keithemerson.com:
<< "Everything's going ahead with EMI Classic's
release of _Emerson Plays Emerson_ (Solo
Piano), scheduled for March 2002." >>
Keith hasn't been on a major label new release since Victory put out ELP's _In
The Hot Seat_ a.k.a. "Snatching Defeat From The Jaws Of Victory".
I'll keep my fingers crossed for Keith & EMI.
--
'YesELPkCrimson'
MAFortFam<at>aol<dot>com (MarkF)
"Parts without parts are simples.
All simples are parts of moments.
Not all moments of parts are simples."
- Kenneth Derus: _Memories And Their Objects_
(I dunno, it just sounds cool...)
Chris Oberst
> You see Chris- it's all subjective.
In terms of the reviews the album received here, no it's not. The album has
been panned by most commenters on a.m.y. Does that mean the album is
objectively bad--of course not. There is no such thing as objectivity in
music tastes.
Perhaps one reason that the album has received so much negativity is that
the prerelease hype (in which you were a leading participant) was so
intense. The album itself was a giant letdown. If the album had lived up
to Criminal Record or Six Wives, I would defend it passionately. But
instead of the triumphant return of Rick Wakeman we got a Spinal Tap/Monty
Python hybrid that is mostly (IMHO) unlistenable.
I'm glad you enjoy it. I do not.
Christopher Oberst
Dave Westbay
My small attempt at humor was not directed at "Return" but rather at
the potential sequel and what form it might take if there was no
budget behind it. I deliberately exaggerated the "cheapness" of my
description to make it sound possibly more humorous. If it came across
as insulting in your (or anyone else's) perception, that was not my
intent. Hyperbole is a time-honored technique in humor; but humor,
like taste in music, is subjective.
No offense meant to Rick or to the people who really like Return. Like
I said, I don't hate it; I just don't think it is one of Rick's better
efforts. I'm sure that if he did do another trip to the Centre, it
would be much better than the one I described. :-)
Dave Westbay
David Rheault
"gmelin" <gme...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:01c1d389$e10d2580$94f9fc9e@computer...
>
>
> Nic Caciappo <nic...@mlode.com> wrote in article
> <3C9E3462...@mlode.com>...
> | Gee...... I dunno. It all sounded very insulting to me. Not very nice or
> funny at all. I mean if you simply don't like a record I
> | have no problem with saying that at all. But the way you did it seemed
> very insulting,
>
> This from the guy who makes up insulting variations on the names of people
> he doesn't like, eg "VanRabin," "Billy Surewould," or (my favorite) "Billy
> Bag o' Rags." I still don't know what that last one means.
Yes, Nic has helped to deflate a few overrated faux Yes members.
dcr
Martin ~ Malaysia
> "Nic Caciappo" <nic...@mlode.com> wrote in message
> news:3C9E326D...@mlode.com...
> > You see Chris- it's all subjective.
>
> In terms of the reviews the album received here, no it's not. The album has
> been panned by most commenters on a.m.y. Does that mean the album is
> objectively bad--of course not. There is no such thing as objectivity in
> music tastes.
>
Many independent reviewers at the time gave it very high marks, e.g.
Progressive Music Review, SoundStage, Classic Music Mag and even the
SF Site.
Furthermore, fans at Wakeman's site gave it high marks, which is as
close to an a.m.wakeman you can come.
Further to you point, a.m.yes's views on Wakeman's solo output are
barely more relevant as, say, alt.music.genesis' views on Phil
Collins' solo output.
That it did not sell very well is another matter, but it still sold (I
think) roughly on par with Ladder and better than Magnification.
Martin ~ Malaysia
Martin ~ Malaysia
> > Nic, it was all in fun. I think Rick is a great guy, a great musician,
> > and I'm very sorry that the SLO thing didn't work out. I would love to
> > have seen Return be a huge success for him and for EMI, even though I
> > didn't think Return was all that fabulous (I would grade it about a B-
> > or C+).
>
> Gee...... I dunno. It all sounded very insulting to me. Not very nice or funny at all. I mean if you simply don't like a record I
> have no problem with saying that at all. But the way you did it seemed very insulting, when afterall, many people did like the
> album, though some simple close their eyes to that.
>
> Nic
But what did I read on one of Rick's old tour programs, something
about a christmas-party which involved a challenge called "journey to
the centre of the turkey". Almost in the same vein.
Martin ~ Malaysia
> What strikes me as interesting is that, while some '70s prog acts could
> relate to the 'intelligent dance music' scene in the '90s (Fripp
> guesting with Future Sound of London, Hillage and Giraudy's System 7 and
> other Gong crossovers etc.), there haven't been many older names
> interfacing with post-rock. The only examples I can think of are the
> rather obscure cases of Zeena Parkins working with Bjork on the latter's
> _Vespertine_ and Dirk Campbell on Euphoria's two albums.
>
> Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Sigur Ros are the talk of the
> underground. After someone had heard _Lift Your Skinny Fists Like
> Antennas to Heaven_ or _Agaetis Byjorn_, I would be embarrassed for prog
> to be represented by an album as mainstream and, IMHO, as bad as _Return
> to the Centre of the Earth_.
How would you categorise Oliver Wakeman's stuff?
Martin ~ Malaysia
Dave Westbay
Whoops, my error. I should have said the *Pigeon and Olive Pizzeria*
in lovely Milano, the sister establishment to the Turnip and
Jackalope. :-)
Dave Westbay
Henry Potts
>>
>> What strikes me as interesting is that, while some '70s prog acts could
>> relate to the 'intelligent dance music' scene in the '90s (Fripp
>> guesting with Future Sound of London, Hillage and Giraudy's System 7 and
>> other Gong crossovers etc.), there haven't been many older names
>> interfacing with post-rock.
>> Godspeed You Black Emperor! and Sigur Ros are the talk of the
>> underground. After someone had heard _Lift Your Skinny Fists Like
>> Antennas to Heaven_ or _Agaetis Byjorn_, I would be embarrassed for prog
>> to be represented by an album as mainstream and, IMHO, as bad as _Return
>> to the Centre of the Earth_.
>
>How would you categorise Oliver Wakeman's stuff?
What I've heard (which is mainly _The 3 Ages of Magick_) is firmly in
the progressive rock genre: sometimes very much like his father's work,
sometimes neo-prog. I have not generally been impressed.
--
Henry
Martin ~ Malaysia
I share your views, though I have only listened to '3 Ages' from tape
in the car. A glimmer of hope in some parts though.
Martin ~ Malaysia
> the progressive rock genre: sometimes very much like his father's work,
> sometimes neo-prog. I have not generally been impressed.
Agreed. Neither am I.
YesELPkCrimson
<< How would you categorise Oliver Wakeman's stuff?
Henry Potts wrote:
<< What I've heard (which is mainly _The 3 Ages of Magick_) is firmly in the
progressive rock genre: sometimes very much like his father's work, sometimes
neo-prog. >>
I've also heard Oliver's collaborative efforts with Clive Nolan, _Jabberwocky_
and _The Hound Of The Baskervilles_, and both feel even more 'neo-prog' than
_The 3 Ages of Magick_. If I had to compare them, I'd rate both more listenable
than Rick's most recent long-form, literary-themed effort _Return to the
Centre..._
Yet Oliver seems to have inherited his father's tendency to employ lead
vocalists that are inadequate for the task at hand. (In fariness, the OW/CN
collaborations may well have had more influence from Clive and co-producer Karl
Groom as to the choices for vocalists.)
Oliver's first album _Heaven's Isle_ was an instrumental effort in the vein of
Rick's multi-layered synth projects. Oliver is certainly no hack at the
keyboards, but his composing here was not all that memorable really. (Perhaps a
Wakeman family tradition since the '80s?)
Oliver reportedly plays all the music on some new age/spiritual healing
instrumental album called _Chakras_, but I haven't heard that one yet. IIRC it
was being downplayed on Oliver's website as not being an essential inclusion in
his solo catalog.
Marksguitar
Classical label in Canada for the Canadian release.
Marksguitar
but is under the EMI Classical label