This is stupid. In terms of lead playing, rythm playing, and
songwriting, Ed completely blows Nuno away. Ed accomplished more on VH 1
than Nuno has in his whole (basically over ) career...
That's funny because a guitarist invented tapping, he's the absolute best
guitarist of all-time? Just because he invented one guitar technique? I
wouldn't use the word "Kill" to say Nuno's better than Ed but IMHO he's a far
better musician and his guitar licks and solos revolves around something else
than just tapping. Just listen to Nuno's solo album and seriously, I doubt Ed
would be able to achieve the same kind of jewel. And to compare one-on-one
let's see:
Lead playing: they both compare even if I think Nuno is more creative.
Rythym playing: they both compare with maybe a slightest more for Ed.
Songwriting: Definitely Nuno.
Chris "Uno" Dufault
http://uno.home.ml.org
-Matt
"The question is not does love exist, but when she leaves where she goes"
I don't like these sorts of questions...
Nobody would be here without Eddie, But...
Eddie taps. That's what he does. Hammer On, Hammer Off.
If people are going to continue thinking Eddie is the God because of how many
notes he can play, that's just retarded. If that's really your means of
judgement, I'm willing to contend that Mr. Bettencourt can crunch almost as
many notes in there, cleanly, without tapping.
Rythmically speaking, don't even compare Eddie to Nuno. Pull out Extreme's
"Waiting For The Punchline," cue up "Midnight Express." Right...
Eddie is no rythm player. Extreme's sound has always been thick, no empty
space, and his rythmic ideas are very inventive.
Songwriting... once again, you can't even compare Eddie to Nuno.
Really, listen to both of them. Eddie deserves his credit, but Nuno has all of
the tools that Eddie doesn't, and Nuno does all of Eddie's tricks better than
Eddie does.
- dip
I think New Kids on the Block was a piece of shit group, but they sold millions
of records, and had millions of fans. They liked it. I thought it sucked.
Different opinions - no better, no worse.
Music is not a competition, it's an art.
Each creation is unique to its creator, and if it's honest, it's no better or
worse than any other honest work.
I love Nuno for his style, and I love Ed for his. I don't look at them as
either better or worse than each other. They both play their music straight
from the heart, and that's all that matters!
If it sounds good, it is good.
I recommend that you stop living in the 80s (the heyday of shredder
competition), it'll open up your ears...
Peace,
Linus
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't ever forget - Linus loves you!
"Big smiles, big smiles, big smiles!!"
- Martin Riggs (Lethal Weapon 2)
-matt
------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan D. Sheeler
rshe...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rs5150
"Lessons learned are like bridges burned. You only need to cross them
but once. Is the knowledge gained worth the price of the pain? Are the
spoils worth the cost of the hunt?"--Dan Fogelberg "Lessons Learned"
*I think most people in here think Ed is the ONLY guitar player; there
are many other excellent musicians with different styles who play &
sound just great!*
DY
Edward did not invent tapping; Jazz players have used it before he was
born. One guy (this is according to what Ed said it in a guitar rag
article) had been tapping playing 2 hands on the frets back in the '50s;
never used a pick; it's just how he played; like a keyboard.
Well, Matt, chances are no one will be leaving the newsgroup anytime soon
(though I don't recall seeing you post regularly over the past six or
seven months, just an onservation.) Let me preface by saying I don't play
guitar, just listen, and like to think I have an okay ear for picking
out good music. (And I hear ALOT of it as a manager of a record store.)
Okay, I'll grant you that Ed set the standard with the first FOUR
VH albums...Fair Warning in particular was about as raw, hungry and in
your face as VH got. Brilliant. Many would say (myself included) that it
is their best album. Ed and Dave at the respective peaks. However, Ed
hasn't done anything remotely close since. Extreme/Nuno definitely
borrowed from VH on many fronts, not the least being production. My
biggest problem with VH since 5150 has been Ed's need to have an "arena"
sound on the albums, where his guitar is just a wall of noise...there's
no space to breathe, so to speak. The first four or five VH albums had
this space...guitar to the right vocals left sorta thing. Extreme
borrowed this technique (not sure from whom exactly, maybe Queen, Led Zep
or VH) but it displays the artists in their rawest form generally, not
just a "wall" of noise. Listen to Porno or Punchline. Raw...like Fair
Warning. (By the way, Porno was probably the best VH album since Fair
Warning, since you all consider Nuno a VH clone.) Playing wise, Nuno is
easily the closest thing to what Ed once was...but Ed doesn't play like
that anymore. (At least he doesn't record and release material like that
to the public anymore.) Nuno on the other hand has continued to fuckin
smoke (do yourself a favor, go to a record store that lets you listen to
stuff before you buyit, ask to listen to Shizophonic by Nuno...go to
track two, Swollen Princess" and then tell me Nuno doesn't RIP!!!) Ed has
done nothing comparable in years. Sorry.
Cynical Fuck,
Dave L
I think comparing two vastly different guitarists is a mistake, first of
all. Nuno's playing is much funkier than Eddie's, but EVH does the guitar
pyrotechnic thing much better. Nearly half of Nuno's playing is acoustic,
whereas Ed rarely plays unplugged. Nuno hardly taps or uses the tremolo
bar, and Eddie...ah, you know the rest. Granted, there are similarities
between the two, but how many guys who came out at the same time as Nuno
DIDN'T sound a little like Eddie?
--
The Mick
---fashionably sensitive, but too cool to care...
Modern day Case in Point:
Stanley Jordan
- dip
Better yet, just look in the bargin bins, I'am sure you can pick it up real
cheap.(It Sucks)
I'll give Nuno a very slight edge in the speed catagory, but everything else
goes to Eddie Van Halen. Feeling, rhythm,song writing ability,live
performance,studio, and Eddie gets a better tone out of his guitar than Nuno or
anyone else for that matter.
Ricky
> Better yet, just look in the bargin bins, I'am sure you can pick it up
> real cheap.(It Sucks)
>
Chances are, though, you won't find it used anywhere cause A&M didn't
manufacture too many. They were sure the sheep wouldn't be interested ;)
By the way, IMO, it was the best album of last year. Daring in ways Ed
has NEVER been......
Cynical Fuck,
Dave
...I'm not knocking guitar god eddie...just making my opinion known.
...Also listen to the new song...I'd swear that is was NUNO playing in a
couple of spots. I noticed eddie doing some things he's never done
before...A certain style of funkiness trademark of nuno style.
(Not shit's gonna hit the fan)
Danny Rego
yankee7 wrote in message <01bd260e.0b510a60$3c9912cf@computer>...
>> "Chris Alexander" <al...@dryden.lakeheadu.ca> wrote in article
><01bd2572$ccd8c660$6998...@CharlesAlexander.dryden.lakeheadu.ca>...
>> i think nuno kills eddie. period. i like eddie, but nuno's rythems are
>> the best in musics.
>
> Okay, I'll grant you that Ed set the standard with the first FOUR
> VH albums...Fair Warning in particular was about as raw, hungry and in
> your face as VH got. Brilliant. Many would say (myself included) that it
> is their best album. Ed and Dave at the respective peaks. However, Ed
> hasn't done anything remotely close since. Extreme/Nuno definitely
> borrowed from VH on many fronts, not the least being production. My
> biggest problem with VH since 5150 has been Ed's need to have an "arena"
> sound on the albums, where his guitar is just a wall of noise...there's
> no space to breathe, so to speak. The first four or five VH albums had
> this space...guitar to the right vocals left sorta thing. Extreme
> borrowed this technique (not sure from whom exactly, maybe Queen, Led Zep
> or VH) but it displays the artists in their rawest form generally, not
> just a "wall" of noise. Listen to Porno or Punchline. Raw...like Fair
> Warning. (By the way, Porno was probably the best VH album since Fair
> Warning, since you all consider Nuno a VH clone.)
LOL! But he's right...The rhythm guitar tone on Porno is MONSTROUS. Listen to
"He-Man Woman Hater". You can hear the amp shake! That's real amp reverb,
baby, the kind Eddie used to use! The kind no one else uses any more! Sad.
You can hear the tubes freaking out. When's Eddie gonna wake up and retire the
rack?
> Playing wise, Nuno is
> easily the closest thing to what Ed once was...but Ed doesn't play like
> that anymore. (At least he doesn't record and release material like that
> to the public anymore.)
And that's too bad (for us)! Great take!
--
MC
To reply, remove the f***spam from my address.
LinusTripp wrote in message
<19980120204...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>There is no better or worse in music, only different.
>
>
[bunch of cool stuff snipped]
Once again, Linus, we see eye to eye. I totally agree with you on this one.
Incidentally, Nuno does too. I saw him in DC the same night Metallica was
at the USAir
Arena. He told the crowd, "I really appreciate that you guys missed
Metallica to see us"
(paraphrasing). Then a rabid fan yelled out something like "Metallica
sucks compared
to you". At that point, Nuno got indignant and made a point that there is
no "better" in
music, just different....just like you just said, Linus.
Brian
I have the video, Matt. Sure Ed does a few great solos, and overall a
great show (even with DLR in his super prime mode.) But that was what, 15
YEARS ago?....If ya want, I have an Extreme show from Denmark 1991, Nuno
at his best...totally into the show and ripping...but you probably
wouldn't be interested in expanding your musical tastes...oh well, your
loss...
Cynical Fuck,
Dave L
Hey, Nuno is in music for music's sake. His stuff comes straight from the
heart, and anyone who really cares about the art in music will see things as we
do. Most rock fans (at least those I have met, I'll try to be fair here...) are
not like us, which is fine - music means something different to them.
I love music. It calls to me, and I can't imagine life without it. I don't
think I could really deal with life all that well if I was deaf and couldn't
hear music.
Ed did not invent tapping...It's been on blues albums for decades...He
POPULARIZED tapping...
-tapping
-harmonics
-rhythm playing (Ed is a very inventive rhythm player!)
-his sense of how to bulid a solo
-his tone (the best damn tone of any rock player of the last 20 years IMO)
------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan D. Sheeler
rshe...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rs5150
"Lessons learned are like bridges burned. You only need to cross them
but once. Is the knowledge gained worth the price of the pain? Are the
spoils worth the cost of the hunt?"--Dan Fogelberg "Lessons Learned"
Again, I'm not criticizing Ed, I'm just saying he should own up to the
fact that he wanted the tapping to be "his" calling card. Many
musicians want to be big acts (which also means you'll be well-known),
so what['s the big deal for Ed to admit he wanted to be the first guy on
the fingertapping moon if that was something he thought would help the
band rise?
Ben
I was also thinking that from what we've heard, "Fire in the Hole"
sounds like the song that will most be like the old Van Halen, a real
headbanger with whammy to boot. It'll be like F.U.C.K.'s "Judgment Day"
or "Balance"'s "Big Fat Money". There is always one song at least in
which Ed goes crazy on the guitar. Cool title for a song too. I just
wish we could get a little more of that hard rock sound, though. I
think in the long run that's what made Extreme so cool. Most songs were
heavy rock and the voclas meshed perfectly.
Ben
clo...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message
<6as0qt$b...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>A little while ago, Nuno Bettencourt was quoted as saying he loved III
>when he heard it, and that it was the best stuff since the David Lee
>Roth era. Nuno is a heavy shredder of a rock player, and his musical
>styles have never wavered, so it seems to me this is at least one good
>indication of the album's potential. He said all the diehard Van Halen
>fans (such as himself) would not be disappointed.
Actually, Nuno was quoted as saying that Eddie had "forced Gary to sound
just like Sammy" and that it neglected Gary's ability to sound "beautiful".
He went on to say that Ed probably doesn't know what "beauty" is.
I have *no* idea where you got your info. To me, it sounded like sour grapes
from Nuno.
-Rex
Where did you hear that? This info from Nuno was from February 1997 in
a Guitar World interview:
"Then the Van Halen thing happened and there was no reason to keep it to
ourselves. I was so excited that Gary got the gig. I think it's perfect
for him, and Van Halen fans don't know what they're in for. They're
going to love it. I heard the stuff, and it's great! It's the best stuff
since Roth."
Unless he was really bitter and lying about his opinions, it sounds to
me like he really liked the material he'd heard. I just wonder how much
of the songs they had written by then.
Ben
clo...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message
<6assia$5...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>Where did you hear that?
From "Nuno Steps Out". It appeared in issue #8 of The Inside: The (then)
Unofficial International Van Halen Magazine.
Inside: Have you heard any of the new Van Halen songs with Gary?
Nuno: Yes, I have.
Inside: The other members of Van Halen have been mentioning that Gary sounds
different than when he was in Extreme. Is that true?
Nuno: Edie would like you to think that. They're trying to make him sound
different, I think. As far as I'm concerned, Eddie didn't even know what
Gary sounded like in Extreme. When those guys think of Gary, they're
thinking "More Than Words" and all the light stuff. The Van Halen guys are
trying to make him sound like a 300-pound bodybuilder. He's screaming his
lungs out and putting all sorts of shit over his voice. They've got to get
over that. There were times when I heard Gary sing with them and it sounded
like Sammy Hagar. That's how far they're trying to push him.
Inside: People who have heard the material say he sounds like a young Sammy
Hagar.
Nuno: That's what they'd like, but it's not natural. It's like Gary's
pushing so hard that it doesn't really sound like Gary anymore. Van Halen
has a real macho, cock-rock thing going. They always have. They're afraid
people are going to think that Gary isn't macho enough for Van Halen.
Inside: But Gary has such a beautiful voice...
Nuno: They don't want beautiful. Don't mention that word in the Van Halen
camp. They don't like beautiful.
-Rex
Well, what about his "retarded"?
It's a grammar thing...
>> Ed did not invent tapping...It's been on blues albums for decades...He
>> POPULARIZED tapping...
>>
What sets Edward apart from other guitarists was the fact that he was the
FIRST guitarist to incorporate tapping, hammer-on/pull-offs, different kinds
of harmonics, and such. Edward created a signature style of guitar playing
by using several different techniques together, synthesizeing them, and
coming up with the "brown sound". Edward should be recognized for his
contribution to Rock Music.
Still, the fact that he's a killer guitarist doesn't change the fact that
he's letting the industry eat him alive. It's actually sad. I feel sorry
for him. He's let his managar take too much control over his career. In
doing so, he's alienated two great singers. I wish that VH with Cherone
could live up to the past, but from what I've already heard of "without you"
it doesn't look like it. The song really sucks.
That's an interesting take. Do you really think this is true? I did
sort of have the feeling Ed resented Ed Leffler since he came over from
Sammuy's side, and it's entirely possible that Eddie Van Halen has
become so controlling that he and his band have suffered. He controls
the band and is controlled by Ray Danniels (If Ray got canned, that
would probably put a strain on Alex's marital state too). It isn't good
when the bandmember who writes all the music makes the big decisions.
You never know when you've taken a wrong step.
The fact is both Eddie and the band have had some really negative spin
in the last two years. The personally looked very deceptive and the
public took note of that. Everyone knew about the Roth thing, and if VH
meant it only to be low-key, then they handled it wrong and it made them
look bad to the world. Whether Dave looked foolish or not, he's not
selling well and Van Halen is, so who do you think had more to lose?
Ben
That was Sammy's big beef...Sam's concern was that the band was going
downhill in a business fashion after Ed Leffler, their manager died of
cancer (reminds me of Brian Epstein with the Beatles; they eventually
self destructed). He was opposed to Alex's bro-in-law running the show
because he didn't have the experience a big act like Van Halen needed to
keep them forging ahead into new pasteurs. Strange how when the new
manager takes over, it isn't long before he rides the band hard about a
greatest hits cd...and the band is at it's pinnacle. NOT a smart
business move!!!
DY
Hey DY, why do I always end up replying to your posts? I actually like your
takes, generally, but a lot of times you seem to have a few notions that I just
can't agree with.
Like your take on Ray Danniels and SRO Management. The guy has managed Rush
since their inception, and they are one of the only bands around for 20 or more
years that had all of their records go at least gold. Believe me, he's got the
experience. And as far as the new "pasteurs" thing (you meant new pastures,
right?), it's really not his responsibility as far as the music is concerned.
His job is to sell the band, and I think the publicity for the album will be
rather large. If it sells, well, that's another matter. You can only do so
much. He's gonna try for some new fans, I'm sure, since they've lost quite a
few of the old ones, but VH doesn't really seem like the stuff most people
would like to listen to these days (even though I love it) - the pop world has
really "dumbed down" if you will...
The loss of Ed Leffler was a devastating blow to VH Mach II, and I think that
Sammy was put off a bit by the change since Leffler seemed to be his champion
in the group. Sammy's inability to adapt to the change (along with his own
personal issues, like his divorce, his new wife, his marriage, etc.) probably
caused the friction between the band members, along with his ability to control
his partying, something Eddie and Alex obviously couldn't do all that well.
How do you know that it was Ray Danniels that made up the idea for a greatest
hits? I think it could have been the new pretentious, "sober" Eddie (the quotes
don't question his actual freedom from alcohol (since Val would have left him
if he drank any more), they question his decision-making ability). I remember
how he was slagging Ace Frehley in Guitar World (Dec. 96, I think...) and it
really bugged me. He almost seems like a different person than he did years
ago. He's much less humble. I guess it's easier to have some humility when
you're the big guitar hero than when the new guys are calling the pop clown who
was more about looks than playing the reason they play the guitar. I guess he
was trying to preserve his "legacy". Notice that his solo "Eruption" was the
first track on the album? Coincidence? I think not.
I guess this take will confuse both the DLR-lovers and the Eddie-worshipers
alike as to where I stand!
There's much more to this story than we as a public have access...
One of the only truly impartial people here,
Linus
P.S. Hey DY - it's a good idea to post a snippet of what you are responding to
so others can understand the first parts of your posts more easily...I didn't
know what you were "HERE HERE"-ing! Otherwise, keep up the spirited posting!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't ever forget - Linus loves you!
"I just can't find the time, to write my mind the way I want it to read..."
- Jeff Tweedy (Wilco)