Yamaha Bousfield Professional Trombone
Les Whitehouse
Has anybody played one of these? I have been offered one at an excellent
price and wonder if it's worth going for this top of the range model. (I
play principal trombone in a symphony orchestra). My current 'bone is a VERY
old Bach Strad 42 with f valve.
Cheers.
Dan Cloutier
I found them to be too light in 19th and 20 Century orchestra literature.
They really bark ugly-like when you light them up.
From 1989-1992 or so I spent alot of time with Yamaha reps discussing the idea
of Yamaha building a "Heavy Wall" trombone, just like their trumpet. The
Yamaha R&D guys even did a lot of measuring and testing of a
Minick-customized Yamaha Alto trombone I own. They told me they were planning
on a heavy-wall horn, and were thinking about using the valve on my alto as a
basis for their design. They said they'd be in touch with me about it. Well,
several years went by with no word from Yamaha. Then one day I see a picture
of Ian Bousfield holding a Tenor with my Alto valve design on it!
Can't blame them, though. Who would buy a "Dan Cloutier" trombone?
==============================
The Second Amendment IS Homeland Security!
Andy Derrick
news:TuJs8.1425$rQ1.1...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
That isn't the Birmingham Philharmonic by any chance ? I depped a couple of
times on Bass and Tenor Trombone a few years back.
I played a friends Yamaha Bb/F and found it to be very light. It was the
only orchestral sized tenor that could cut it in a big band on a lead part.
Saying that, it might be appropriate for some 1st trombone orchestral work,
just choose carefully.
I recall an urban myth that Ian Bousfield didn't really get on with this
trombone and used his trusty Conn 8H with a Yamaha weight. Very reminiscent
of Denis Wick with his Besson that turned out to be a Conn with a Besson
weight.
--
Andy Derrick
www.triolatino.co.uk - bone, bass and bongos latin jazz
www.andyderrick.com - 2 trombone led jazz ensemble
Mark Chittenden
Andy Derrick wrote
> I recall an urban myth that Ian Bousfield didn't really get on with this
> trombone and used his trusty Conn 8H with a Yamaha weight. Very
reminiscent
> of Denis Wick with his Besson that turned out to be a Conn with a Besson
> weight.
In the early 80's Denis Wick also used to use a Bach 42 onto which he put a
B&H counter-weight. John Iveson and Michael Hext have also used the Yamaha
in the past but quickly went back to their Conns and Ian Bousfield now uses
Conn.
Kent
<ne...@andyderrick.com> wrote:
>
>I recall an urban myth that Ian Bousfield didn't really get on with this
>trombone and used his trusty Conn 8H with a Yamaha weight. Very reminiscent
>of Denis Wick with his Besson that turned out to be a Conn with a Besson
>weight.
I saw Ian last spring. He was playing a Conn and the Conn reps were
with him hawking their wares.
kent
keith.marr
could risk being sued by the one that paid them. Wish they had been "pour
encourager les autres".
Certainly this thread has moved Messrs Wick and Boustead down in my
estimation.
"Kent" <not.an....@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:jgg8bucchvpb1d41d...@4ax.com...
Andy Derrick
"keith.marr" <ke...@gothicway.fsnet> wrote in message
news:a91lg0$7v4$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Strikes me that people who endorse one manufacturer and then play another
> could risk being sued by the one that paid them. Wish they had been "pour
> encourager les autres".
>
> Certainly this thread has moved Messrs Wick and Boustead down in my
> estimation.
Why down in your estimation? They didn't sacrifice musicality for
commercialism. They should go up in everyones esteem.
keith.marr
under false pretences and strove to deceive the public as well as the
sponsor. I would've thought that was obvious, but then I forgot most slide
merchants had no sense of morality <smirk>
"Andy Derrick" <ne...@andyderrick.com> wrote in message
news:a93j8f$vf1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
Kent
<ke...@gothicway.fsnet> wrote:
>Didn't sacrifice musicality for commercialism!!! Behave! They took money
>under false pretences and strove to deceive the public as well as the
>sponsor. I would've thought that was obvious, but then I forgot most slide
>merchants had no sense of morality <smirk>
>
Well, there was no deception at the recital I attended. I would
assume that Mr. Bousfeild had a contract with Yamaha within which
Yamaha purchased the rights you use his name on a trombone. Perhaps
there was a time limit or no agreement for Ian to promote that
instrument which left him free to pursue another mfg. Or he didn't
like the instrument and they worked out termination terms which left
his name on the Yamaha. I don't think there is a Bousfield Conn
model.
Regardless, if Bousfield, by playing Conns, was breaking a contract,
Yamaha legal vultures would be all over him.
Of course everything is conjecture.
kent
Tim Dowling
several years, and eventually went back to Conn, and began promoting
Conn trombones. Perhaps UMI bought him but I imagine that it went
somewhat similarly to my case.
UMI bought out the CL model 88's and approached several players across
Europe to try them and appraise them. I was also one of these players. I
didn't receive any money for it, nor did I receive a trombone. I tested
three instruments including one sterling silver SGX built for Bousfield,
and sent in a report. Perhps that's when Bousfield made the change back
to Conn.
BTW Yamaha does not use the name Bousfield any more to promote that
model. "Designed by a leading trombonist" is the current blurb. I think
he is to be commended on playing and promoting his trombone of choice. I
mean he is a truly BIG fish in our small pond. Methinks this is getting
out of hand!
Tim Dowling (also a Conn devotee\fan -by choice)
see also http://www.tarrodi.se/lindberg/instruments.html
Edward Solomon
> Well, there was no deception at the recital I attended. I would
> assume that Mr. Bousfeild had a contract with Yamaha within which
> Yamaha purchased the rights you use his name on a trombone. Perhaps
> there was a time limit or no agreement for Ian to promote that
> instrument which left him free to pursue another mfg. Or he didn't
> like the instrument and they worked out termination terms which left
> his name on the Yamaha. I don't think there is a Bousfield Conn
> model.
You assume incorrectly. At least in the UK, the Yamaha YSL 681 was never
promoted specifically as a "Bousfield" model. It had his name associated
with it, true, but never was called the "Bousfield model". There was no
contract which allowed Yamaha to call this instrument the "Bousfield model",
nor, for that matter, is there any contract with Doug Yeo to call the YBL
622 the "Doug Yeo model" bass trombone.
The Conn 88H that Ian is playing on at the moment is far from standard,
anyway. He has modified it himself, such that it no longer exactly resembles
the factory model. This is due to the exigencies of making the right sound
in the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, which I explained in my write-up of
his November 2001 masterclass at the British Trombone Society Festival.
Ed.
__________________________________________
Edward Solomon
British Trombone Society Webmaster
mailto:webm...@trombone-society.org.uk
Visit "The Trombonist Online" -
the online magazine of the
British Trombone Society
http://www.trombone-society.org.uk
__________________________________________
Mark Chittenden
> The Conn 88H that Ian is playing on at the moment is far from standard,
> anyway. He has modified it himself, such that it no longer exactly
resembles
> the factory model. This is due to the exigencies of making the right sound
> in the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, which I explained in my write-up of
> his November 2001 masterclass at the British Trombone Society Festival.
I've looked for the article on the British Trombone Society website but
couldn't find it. Perhaps you could list the modifications Ian Bousfield has
made to his 88H to make it more suitable for playing in the Vienna Phil.
Thanks.
Edward Solomon
> couldn't find it. Perhaps you could list the modifications Ian Bousfield
has
> made to his 88H to make it more suitable for playing in the Vienna Phil.
> Thanks.
That write-up is only in the magazine, but I have copied and pasted it
below.
Masterclass
The first masterclass of the day was given by Ian Bousfield, ex-principal
trombonist of the London Symphony Orchestra who was recently appointed
principal trombone of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra and had flown in
from the Continent especially for the occasion.
The first giveaway that this masterclass was going to be something out of
the ordinary was immediately explained by Ian, given that he was holding an
unusual trombone, a Conn 88H open wrap instrument, but unlacquered and
bearing evidence of considerable amounts of packing tape stuck to the
handslide and the bell section. Ian promised to explain this further later
in the session. The ever-present mobile telephone made its appearance, too,
as Ian explained that the orchestra could call at any time and require him
perform that evening instead of Rudi Josel, the orchestra's other first
trombonist, should Rudi for any reason become incapacitated.
His first impressions covered the obvious differences between playing in
London and in Vienna. The sheer demands of the job became very apparent as
he pointed out that he was now practising, which, albeit, he never had time
for previously, due to the pressing engagements of London musical life, but
now found himself needing due to the workload. The "Wiener Philharmoniker"
are what is termed a "Dienstorchester", for this is an orchestra that
doubles as a concert orchestra and an opera pit orchestra. The VPO therefore
has a hectic schedule of concert programmes and opera performances, and next
to no time at all for rehearsal, hence the need for practice, for, as Ian
explained, "the first time you hear it is the first time you play it" - in
other words you only get one stab at it!
The method he uses for practising excerpts from this repertoire is an
unusual one, too. Indeed, it has to be, as the orchestral schedule he
announced included Schoenberg's opera "Jakobsleiter", Strauss operas,
including "Die Frau ohne Schatten", as well as the odd Bruckner and Mahler
symphony for good measure. However, with such a tight schedule and next to
no time for rehearsal, it is impossible to procure scores and recordings and
find the time to study each work before the performance. Ian Bousfield has
therefore adopted his own system of practising by awarding points, whereby
he practises an excerpt and rates himself out of five for each excerpt.
Critically, he examines how he scored overall after practising each excerpt
five times in succession. After all, as he put it, it's no good getting the
solo in Bolero right on the fifth attempt, because you only have one chance
in performace.
Responding to questions from the audience, as well as working from an
outline of topics to discuss, Ian touched on various issues, including the
differences between the LSO and the VPO, the alto trombone, the Conn 88H he
was using, embouchure, and national styles.
His comments on the differences between the VPO and the LSO were very
interesting. Due to the techniques of playing for CD recording sessions, he
said, very few orchestras are prepared to take risks like the VPO still
does. In fact, he claimed that the LSO and the VPO were poles apart as the
VPO is best heard live, whereas the LSO is an excellent orchestra to use for
recording film scores. The main difference between the two, he said, was the
string sound, as the VPO has a rich string sound, and is not dominated as
much by woodwinds, brass or percussion.
Playing in the orchestra is very different, as well. This time, Ian made
specific mention of the instruments used and that there is a very strong
tradition to maintain, which is hard to do on the newest of instruments.
Among his collection of trombones is an early 20th century tenor trombone
made by Kruspe. This instrument is typical of German trombones of the period
in having a smallish bore (by modern standards, though it was large for the
day compared with contemporaneous British and French trombones) and a very
wide bell with a "kranz" or garland that extends half way up the bell. When
describing it, he said it was "dead". This same adjective was also used to
describe the old instruments made in Elkhart by the C.G.Conn company. This
was the obvious lead-in to talking about his current instrument and Ian went
on to explain that the trombone he was using was adapted specifically to try
to match that dullness. The justification for this is that the latest in
trombone technology endeavours to make an instrument more and more
responsive so that it can be played with the least possible amount of
effort. Ian's ideas about this, though, are born out of the exigencies of
playing in the Vienna Philharmonic, where the orchestra really does play
'pianissimo' and insists on taking risks that most others would never
endure. The demands which that places on the brass player hinge on quiet
playing, because this is where a responsive instrument is not quiet enough
for his needs in the Vienna orchestra.
The solution to this problem was to go back to the drawing board and examine
the playing characteristics of the older instruments and try to emulate
them. Of course, brass instruments, like woodwind and string instruments,
mature over time and it takes a while for the metal to settle down,
according to the playing of a particular individual, but that is why older
instruments play very differently from newer ones. The instrument he is now
using, a Conn 88H in all but appearance, fulfils the task for which it was
intended. He finds it sufficiently lacking in response to produce a true
'pianissimo' and blend with the others in the brass section. This is
particularly important in the Vienna orchestra, for the brass section works
as a whole and the sound itself is largely dictated by tradition.
This in itself is no surprise as the most famous conductor the orchestra has
ever had is Gustav Mahler, who used to mark up the orchestral parts in blue
pencil. These markings are still present in many of the works performed
today, guaranteeing the continuance of the tradition, although as Ian
explained, that can be quite tough. The first time that the Third Symphony
was performed, Mahler himself brought in a German trombonist to handle the
first trombone part. Ian was told that the orchestra had a tradition of
hiring foreign principal trombonists - the last one had been hired one
hundred years ago by Mahler!
On the subject of embouchure, the differences between the schools of playing
in Britain, continental Europe and North America were highlighted. According
to what Ian Bousfield has found, the way in which the mouthpiece itself is
placed on the lip has much to do with the sound qualities associated with
the national schools of playing. In Britain, the method is to place the
mouthpiece on the top lip and set the embouchure, allowing the lower lip
freedom to vibrate. The opposite is true in North America and continental
Europe, where the lower lip sets the embouchure and the upper lip has
freedom of movement, North America having largely copied the German/Austrian
method. This makes for a "darker" sound overall, and in combination with the
types of instrument used, may go some way towards explaining why there is a
tradition of a brighter sound quality in Britain, say, compared with the
USA, Germany or Austria.
Ian now uses the alto trombone much more frequently and finds it a
refreshing change. He went on to tell the audience that he always felt that
the alto trombone is something of a cop-out for those who are unable to rely
on a secure high register, which he always thought he had. However, playing
in the Vienna Philharmonic, he has found that the alto trombone has its
place in the modern orchestra, largely because it is the right instrument to
use for many Classical and early Romantic works. It has the right tone
quality and blends better with the horns and trumpets, who are particularly
insistent that the trombone should sound like a trombone and not sound too
"spread". The net result is that the heavy brass in Vienna play with a more
homogeneous sound because the trombones must try to match what the trumpets
do.
This need to conform was exemplified by Ian's quotation of the Sword motif
from Wagner's Ring cycle. He explained how the orchestra, while able to
produce a real 'pianissimo', can also produce a terrific 'fortissimo', and
the accents required for passages of this nature go off like firecrackers
around you on stage. No wonder, then, tying all these threads together, that
with the less responsive instruments, the centuries old tradition and the
music of Bruckner, Mahler, Wagner and Strauss which they play, that the
brass really do play the accents that are written on the page - which, in
Ian's words is the hardest thing to do. Never mess with the music - play
what's written!
Recital
Ian Bousfield's recital left everyone present with no doubt as to why this
consummate trombonist was appointed successively to the principal chairs of
the London Symphony and Vienna Philharmonic Orchestras.
The programme started with a significant contribution to the modern
repertoire, Hours of Time, a challenging piece for trombone and piano,
followed by "Four Pieces for Violoncello & Piano" by Frank Bridge, a highly
evocative suite of pieces, very English and reminiscent of works by the
likes of Delius, Elgar and Vaughan Williams in style.
The obligatory show pieces rounded off the performance: Autumn Leaves and
The Blue Bells of Scotland, by Arthur Pryor, all played with Ian's customary
panache and delighting the audience as he and his able accompanist, Alison
Proctor, made their way through the myriad of notes. Ian's humourous
anecdotes kept the audience amused during the recital, too, as he recounted
stories of playing and practising in Vienna. Our lasting impressions were of
a man who really enjoys the trombone, and so should we all!
--
Mark Chittenden
> That write-up is only in the magazine, but I have copied and pasted it
> below.
Many thanks!