Notes on "I'm getting sentimental over you"
Milton Brewster
409 when my back hollered, "stop!!" I actually felt a tendon in
my lower back tear and the vertebre shift just a little. I braced
myself on the counter, which probably saved me a month's recovery
time. Fifteen minutes later, I made it to my LazyBoy chair, where
I have curdled for a week.
For two days, I couldn't get up. The only thing I could do, was
to listen to some CDs on my boombox. It turned out, that I had
six CDs with different versions of "I'm Getting Sentimental Over
You" recorded on them. Having a little unscheduled down-time, I
decided to listen to all those versions back-to-back several
times and see what I thought.
* * * * * *
I think the five most important notes ever played on the trombone
are the first five notes that Tommy Dorsey played on his 1935
recording of "I'm Getting Sentimental over You." He moves from
interesting, to overpowering, to sublime in just two measures.
The Trombone has not been the same ever since.
I think it's even more remarkable; given that the song itself is
not a great composition, nor is Dorsey's dated arrangement. My
next discovery was even more remarkable to me.
I put on Christian Lindberg's version of "I'm Getting Sentimental
over You," that's on his Ten-Year Jubilee CD. He plays with a
beautiful, centered light tone, and climbs lovingly into the
stratosphere where he needed to be -- but it was mechanical. He
makes two stylistic mistakes toward the end of the piece. First;
he tried to make a triple gracenote turn pass for an improvised
phrase, and then he used a glissando that was a just plain
terrible choice. It sounded phoney.
The "Absolute Trombone" CD has a great, great trombone choir
version of "Sentimental," with Bill Watrous playing the solo. The
Choir has a very masculine sound, and it's interesting. Watrous
plays a beautiful solo, but it sounded a little stuffy to me and
his slow vibrato style wouldn't have been my choice. Just a
little too smokey-cool.
Tom Garling plays a nice, light up-tempo version on his "Tom
Garling" CD. It might be on a superbone -- the tone is a little
harsh for the Kings that the CD credits mention. Garling
expressed the improvised feeling that Lindberg tried for, and I
thought that the improvisation worked well.
Somewhere, I also have versions by Ashley Alexander, Frank
Rosolino and Buddy Morrow, but I couldn't find them tonight.
* * * * *
My main discovery, was a rediscovery: That it is often harder to
play simple passages than it is to play complex passages. Dorsey
doesn't play anything out of the ordinary. Transpose Dorsey's
solo to Bb, and any fair HighSchool player could play every note
in the Dorsey arrangement.
... but Dorsey married technique, style and expressiveness
perfectly, where Lindberg and Watrous and the others didn't
(great as they all are). And because it was a simple passage,
these slight differences were easy to hear and appreciate. But
also; because they were simple passages, it is easy to overlook
how masterful Dorsey's original performance was.
milt brewster
Peter Ward
(Milton Brewster) wrote:
> Transpose Dorsey's
> solo to Bb, and any fair HighSchool player could play every note
> in the Dorsey arrangement.
Why?
Bobby Knight
<scri...@best.com> wrote:
>My main discovery, was a rediscovery: That it is often harder to
>play simple passages than it is to play complex passages. Dorsey
>doesn't play anything out of the ordinary. Transpose Dorsey's
>solo to Bb, and any fair HighSchool player could play every note
>in the Dorsey arrangement.
>
in the original key for the last 30 years.
>... but Dorsey married technique, style and expressiveness
>perfectly, where Lindberg and Watrous and the others didn't
>(great as they all are). And because it was a simple passage,
>these slight differences were easy to hear and appreciate. But
>also; because they were simple passages, it is easy to overlook
He was a great influence, and one of the great ballad players of all
time. Dorsey's best attribute was in his phrasing and breath control,
but; technique, style, expressiveness? Maybe you haven't listened
enough to JJ, Watrous, Fontana, Rosolino, and on, and on, and on. As
an afterthought, what about Jack Jenny?
Milton Brewster
pwa...@cix.co.uk says...
Because Dorsey plays it in the key of Eb, which puts his highest
note on a soaring, forte high D natural. This is a hard note for
anyone to play well. I suspect most high school students can more
easily hit the A natural that you get if you transpose the song
down a fourth, to Bb.
milt
Michael Shoshani
<bkn...@verio.net>'s message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if
anyone notices:
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:28:35 -0700, Milton Brewster
><scri...@best.com> wrote:
>>My main discovery, was a rediscovery: That it is often harder to
>>play simple passages than it is to play complex passages. Dorsey
>>doesn't play anything out of the ordinary. Transpose Dorsey's
>>solo to Bb, and any fair HighSchool player could play every note
>>in the Dorsey arrangement.
>>
>"Fair" high school trombone players have been able to play this solo
>in the original key for the last 30 years.
I could do it with *ease* in high school (early 1980s), on a King
Cleveland 605. Startled plenty of people who weren't aware that a
bone could go that high.
However, now that I've recently restarted again after a decade of not
playing, it's gonna take some time before I regain that high range.
But if I had it then, I'll eventually get it back...I hope :)
Michael Shoshani
Chicago, IL
"Life is an art, not a science;
You make it up as you go along." -Al Hirschfeld
Michael Shoshani
Brewster <scri...@best.com>'s message with Folger's Crystals. Let's
see if anyone notices:
>I think the five most important notes ever played on the trombone
>are the first five notes that Tommy Dorsey played on his 1935
>recording of "I'm Getting Sentimental over You." He moves from
>interesting, to overpowering, to sublime in just two measures.
>The Trombone has not been the same ever since.
Ever hear TD's original 1932 recording with The Dorsey Brothers? The
basic elements are there but he clearly has some difficulty with the
highest notes. Could have been his horn, could have been the session,
might have just been an off-day; he was still playing a sort of
"gutbucket dixieland" lower register at that time, so he may not have
been working as hard on the lyrical upper.
MS
Chicago
John Sunday
<scri...@best.com> writes:
>Because Dorsey plays it in the key of Eb, which puts his highest
note on a soaring, forte high D natural.
I think if you listen closely you will find that Dorsey plays "Getting
Sentimental Over You" in the key of D, which puts his highest note at C#,
unless he would prefer to end on the high D. Maybe your turntable/tape deck is
running a little fast. :-). Even some of the better players do it in Bb. I
would choose to do it in D, but most keyboard players that I encounter would
prefer Bb.
John Sunday
The Villages, FL
Actikid
>
> In article <MPG.15e5bf378...@nntp.best.com>, Milton Brewster
> <scri...@best.com> writes:
>
> >Because Dorsey plays it in the key of Eb, which puts his highest
> note on a soaring, forte high D natural.
>
> I think if you listen closely you will find that Dorsey plays "Getting
> Sentimental Over You" in the key of D, which puts his highest note at C#,
> unless he would prefer to end on the high D.
That would be news to me. I've always believed the original was Eb.
Just to be clear we are saying the same thing, I'm talking the first
chord being EbM7, with the lead line starting on the M7th, as in D, Eb,
G, Bb, D, etc.
FWIW, I just spun the Ron Milkins CD and he did it in D as you suggest.
The Wilkins cut is definitrly worth a listen. I'm not saying this
rendition beats the Dorsey original. You can't top the original, and
the title of the CD is "A Tribute to the Masters". I think you would
find this cut a lot less mechanical than Lindberg.
Bobby Knight
wrote:
>John Sunday wrote:
>>
>> In article <MPG.15e5bf378...@nntp.best.com>, Milton Brewster
>> <scri...@best.com> writes:
>>
>> >Because Dorsey plays it in the key of Eb, which puts his highest
>> note on a soaring, forte high D natural.
>>
>> I think if you listen closely you will find that Dorsey plays "Getting
>> Sentimental Over You" in the key of D, which puts his highest note at C#,
>> unless he would prefer to end on the high D.
>
>That would be news to me. I've always believed the original was Eb.
>Just to be clear we are saying the same thing, I'm talking the first
>chord being EbM7, with the lead line starting on the M7th, as in D, Eb,
>G, Bb, D, etc.
The original was in D, first note is a C#.
bk
Gary Persons
in trombone. I had a teacher when I was young who played it in F (a
minor third above Dorsey's D) without a flub.
All these years, I've been trying that, but there's no way that I could
hit that high E with any sound or power. I just tried it in D and IT'S
EASY!
Thanks -
--
- Gary Persons gper...@earthlink.net
Milton Brewster
says...
I'm not getting close to all the responses in this thread.
Thanks for the tip on Ron Wilkins' recording. Where can I find
the CD?
I *do* like Lindberg, even though I don't sound like it these
days. I have more Lindberg CDs than I have of anyone else. He
plays difficult pieces, so it's probably easier to criticize him.
... nevertheless; I don't think should ever put a gliss into a
passage again.
My Dorsey CDs are all bad digital rehashes of old 30s and 40s
Dorsey recordings. They could easily be off. I checked my best
recording of "Sentimental" out on a keyboard, and I get Eb. My
keyboard isn't definitive, though.
My original point was that Dorsey's solo is very high for many
highschool trombonists to play, but that just about any fair
student could play it if it were transposed down to Bb. I thought
this was important, because I wanted to make the point that
Dorsey's solo was not difficult to play; just difficult to play
in the simple style he played it in. As supporting evidence; I
listened to some other very good trombonists playing the same
piece, and I heard some things that raised my eyebrows.
milt b
Milton Brewster
sh0s...@home.com says...
I've got a couple of old LPs, but neither of them have that old
recording. Do you know where I can get it?
By the way, Dorsey also recorded a new arrangement in the early
50s sometime, playing a mute and backed by a mindless, humming
chorus. AAWWFFUULL arrangement.
milt b
Milton Brewster
bkn...@verio.net says...
---
I don't mind being a little provocative, if it pulls good
information out of the woodwork.
I defer to your greater experience, but hasten to note that my
High School experience is quite different from yours. I used to
be pretty good on the trombone in High School -- went to contests
and won first chair three times in Western States' competition
bands. I also won a trip to Hollywood to perform in an all-star
HS Rehearsal band one year. I played first chair there, too;
partly based on my high register. I'm sure you and other here
have much more to note; but my point is not that I'm as good as
other posters here -- it's just that I'm not exactly Mister
Slouch, either.
In my non-slouchey experience; I **NEVER** have heard a
highschool player who could perform Dorsey's solo in its original
key, except me. And my teacher roundly discouraged me from
"fooling around" up there.
As far as other greats go; I will never listen enough to any of
the performers you listed. I love them all, but they also are not
perfect. My Watrous and Rosolino CDs are dazzling, but their
improvisations don't make musical statements that are as strong
as their technical artistry can support. I have a soft spot in my
head for Carl Fontana, but he doesn't leave me humming his solos,
either.
Your mileage is very welcome to vary, and maybe you can explain
to me what I'm missing. Note my first sentence.
milt b
Bobby Knight
wrote:
>I don't mind being a little provocative, if it pulls good
>information out of the woodwork.
>
>I defer to your greater experience, but hasten to note that my
>High School experience is quite different from yours. I used to
>be pretty good on the trombone in High School -- went to contests
>and won first chair three times in Western States' competition
>bands. I also won a trip to Hollywood to perform in an all-star
>HS Rehearsal band one year. I played first chair there, too;
>partly based on my high register. I'm sure you and other here
>have much more to note; but my point is not that I'm as good as
>other posters here -- it's just that I'm not exactly Mister
>Slouch, either.
trombonist, and played somewhat past that level.
>highschool player who could perform Dorsey's solo in its original
>key, except me. And my teacher roundly discouraged me from
>"fooling around" up there.
players must be limited. It isn't that hard. I, and others that I
knew, was able to do it in high school...in 1954. You certainly
aren't the only player of that age group with that ability..
>
>As far as other greats go; I will never listen enough to any of
>the performers you listed. I love them all, but they also are not
>perfect. My Watrous and Rosolino CDs are dazzling, but their
>improvisations don't make musical statements that are as strong
>as their technical artistry can support. I have a soft spot in my
>head for Carl Fontana, but he doesn't leave me humming his solos,
>either.
common; they were (are) never satisfied. As for their musicality,
you've made another very telling statement about yourself. If you
can't hear the statements that are made by them, that's a deficiency.
I'm sure that can't hum any of these solos.. I guarantee that you
can't play them.
>
>Your mileage is very welcome to vary, and maybe you can explain
>to me what I'm missing. Note my first sentence.
players, it would be difficult to explain to you what you're missing.
Actikid
>
> Thanks for the tip on Ron Wilkins' recording. Where can I find
> the CD?
> I *do* like Lindberg, even though I don't sound like it these
> days. I have more Lindberg CDs than I have of anyone else. He
> plays difficult pieces, so it's probably easier to criticize him.
> ... nevertheless; I don't think should ever put a gliss into a
> passage again.
He does so many things so well, I wish we could get rid of those %&#$^#
glisses. The community band I play with saved Lassus Trombone for the
next-to-last song of the last concert this summer. This is one
thoroughly insulting piece of music, IMHO. Of course, one plays it with
gusto out of respect to the audience, but I can't escape the feeling
that every time I play this, I set the progress of our instrument back
another 2 years.
Same thing for those obnoxious slide vibratos.
There are so many wonderful things that the trombone can do, we really
don't need to wank around with the slide just 'cuz we can. That would
be like saying a clarnet player should squeak between eack of their
notes just because they can. If I could make it through the rest of my
life without hearing another trombone gliss, I would die a happy man.
David Shriver
"Actikid" <acti...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:3B7F093C...@netzero.net...
> Milton Brewster wrote:
>
> He does so many things so well, I wish we could get rid of those %&#$^#
> glisses. The community band I play with saved Lassus Trombone for the
> next-to-last song of the last concert this summer. This is one
> thoroughly insulting piece of music, IMHO. Of course, one plays it with
> gusto out of respect to the audience, but I can't escape the feeling
> that every time I play this, I set the progress of our instrument back
> another 2 years.
>
> Same thing for those obnoxious slide vibratos.
>
> There are so many wonderful things that the trombone can do, we really
> don't need to wank around with the slide just 'cuz we can. That would
> be like saying a clarnet player should squeak between eack of their
> notes just because they can. If I could make it through the rest of my
> life without hearing another trombone gliss, I would die a happy man.
I always rather liked Lassus Trombone. Sure its not a very serious piece,
but I still think its fun.
The trombone is the only wind instrument that can really do a gliss, so its
only natural that we should get to take advantage of this uniqueness, at
least occasionally.
Clear Skies,
David Shriver
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Michael Shoshani
>In article <vb3rntoj5j42l90eb...@4ax.com>,
>sh0s...@home.com says...
>> Ever hear TD's original 1932 recording with The Dorsey Brothers? The
>> basic elements are there but he clearly has some difficulty with the
>> highest notes. Could have been his horn, could have been the session,
>> might have just been an off-day; he was still playing a sort of
>> "gutbucket dixieland" lower register at that time, so he may not have
>> been working as hard on the lyrical upper.
>>
>I've got a couple of old LPs, but neither of them have that old
>recording. Do you know where I can get it?
Check out the Columbia/Legacy CD "The Dorsey Brothers: Best Of The Big
Bands" (CK 48908). It's the final track.
This CD also contains the somewhat risque song "Annie's Cousin Fanny",
which has the first verse sung by TD and the last verse sung by the
song's composer: Glenn Miller.
MS
Milton Brewster
bkn...@verio.net says...
---
I'm going to be a nice guy, Mister Knight; and not respond in
kind.
I don't care whether Dorsey played "I'm Getting Sentimental over
You" in the key of Eb or D, and I don't mind being corrected. I
also don't believe that the Dorsey solo, in whatever key he
originally played it; is within the range of an average High
School trombonist. I have more than enough personal experience at
contests and playing in bands, to have formed that opinion
honestly. I don't mind being corrected there, either, but my
experience still stands and it's still valid for me. I do have
sufficient regard for the trombonists you mentioned, but I still
do not think that the musical statements they tend to make are as
strong as their technical artistry can support.
Now; for the sake of civilized discourse, I will repeat my offer
to you: If you think I've missed something in performances by
current virtuosos you mentioned, just tell me what I've missed.
Try as hard as you can to not dismiss my question by assuming
that I wouldn't understand the answer. There are probably 1200
high school trombonists reading this exchange, so be forthcoming,
and be nice.
milt brewster
Peter Ward
(Milton Brewster) wrote:
> Article: 18756 of alt.music.trombone
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> From: Milton Brewster <scri...@best.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.music.trombone
> Subject: Re: Notes on "I'm getting sentimental over you"
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:30:33 -0700
> Organization: lying socialist weasels
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I think you'll find it is in D flat/C sharp.
Actikid
>
> The trombone is the only wind instrument that can really do a gliss, so its
> only natural that we should get to take advantage of this uniqueness, at
> least occasionally.
>
the slide vibrato is a stalling maneuver used by players who don't know
what they are trying to state musically. I wouldn't have a problem with
the occasional gliss if it weren't for the fact that this tacky move
dominates the lay perception of our instrument. Ask any non-player what
a trombone sounds like and more often then not they will give you that
air trombone gliss thing.
I just think our instrument should rise a few notches above the slide
whistle on the musical totem pole. I think it is really ironic that one
of the guys (Lindberg) who has worked so hard to elevate the image of
the instrument finds himself backsliding so often with excessive
glissandi.
Gary Persons
Mr. Knight.
Milt is saying that the average High Schooler will find it out of his
range. Mr. Knight, who by all indications was way above average, is
saying that he could have done it.
When I was in High School (I'm a trumpet player) we had trombone player
who had a very good high range (solid High G's) but the second guy had
trouble with Bbs. This is all consistent...I'm going to guess that most
High Schoolers can hit Fs to Bbs, but not higher. I also know (as does
Knight) that SOME can play higher.
Sheesh!
Gary
--
- Gary Persons gper...@earthlink.net
John Sunday
>Because Dorsey plays it in the key of Eb, which puts his highest
note on a soaring, forte high D natural.
In article <memo.20010819...@pwardc.compulink.co.uk>,
pwa...@cix.co.uk (Peter Ward) writes:
>I think you'll find it is in D flat/C sharp.
Another country heard from! I'm still sticking with the key of D (not Db), but
the highest note is C#. I'm in good company because Bobby Knight thinks so
too.
Zemry
>the performers you listed. I love them all, but they also are not
>perfect. My Watrous and Rosolino CDs are dazzling, but their
>improvisations don't make musical statements that are as strong
>as their technical artistry can support. I have a soft spot in my
>head for Carl Fontana, but he doesn't leave me humming his solos,
>either.
>
>Your mileage is very welcome to vary, and maybe you can explain
>to me what I'm missing. Note my first sentence.
milt b
Hmmmmm.......It may be that you just don't like the sound of the trombone. If
so, then there is nothing that we can do to make you like any trombone
recordings.
And remember....The toads march off to war at noon.
Bobby Knight
Persons) wrote:
>If you read this, I think it's pretty easy to agree with both Milton and
>Mr. Knight.
>
>Milt is saying that the average High Schooler will find it out of his
>range. Mr. Knight, who by all indications was way above average, is
>saying that he could have done it.
I wasn't way above average as a high school player, and my quote was:
>" I, and others that I knew, was able to do it in high school...in 1954".(sic)
Others! Several others! It just isn't that hard to do, especially
now that players have raised the level of ability on the instrument..
>Sheesh!
Sheesh!
GRIZ, Gary L. Kurbis Sr.
I tried to stay out of this, but you should know, if BK says it was
"D", it was "D"!
But I wouldn't worry - most of the folks who would ever request this
song, to dance to, are in their upper 80's, & most of them, aren't
fortunate enough to dance with the partner that they first heard this
tune with. Does the KEY SIG matter to them? Play it in the key of "low
J", & nobody will even notice!
Griz
trombone is good!
Kent
wrote:
High range has been for me a real buggaboo. I 've only met a couple
of people in the high school age who could really play above the
b-flat. I have never been able to do so and as such am curious as to
why. Is it a mental block created by the belief that playing high is
actually hard to do, is it lack of correct practice, or could there be
physical limitations? When a pro says its not hard, I'm all ears.
So rather than continuing a pissing match on whether it's hard or not,
perhaps a poll of how hard (or easy) it has been for each of us to
conquer range and how the beast was vanquished.
For me: Very difficult to play above A-flat, mouthpiece size makes no
difference so I opt for a larger size. Current approach: long tones,
lip slurs and VERY quiet tones. Moderate sucess. Takes a few months
to hear improvement. I gauge improvement by increase in range (a half
tone usually) or the feeling of security on existing range.
Next:
kent
Actikid
>
> >>Milt is saying that the average High Schooler will find it out of his
> >>range. Mr. Knight, who by all indications was way above average, is
> >>saying that he could have done it.
Are we talking: take a giant breath, squeeze the cheeks together as hard
as you can, twist your face, jam the mouthpiece 1n, and let out a
piercing screech that may or may not be a specific note? I know lots of
high schoolers who can do this, and seem to fancy doing it all the
time. I have seen hundreds of high schoolers over the years and I never
met one who could play cleanly, accurately, under compolete control,
with good tone quality, for long sessions, tongued and legato high C
through Eb or F. I'm sure there might be a few of them out there who
can, and I don't doubt that Bobby Knight was one of the exceptions as a
high schooler.
> So rather than continuing a pissing match on whether it's hard or not,
> perhaps a poll of how hard (or easy) it has been for each of us to
> conquer range and how the beast was vanquished.
I really believe part of this is luck of the genes. My mouth is
especially small, which seems to favor the high register. I practice
the high register a lot, but it has always come fairly easily for me.
The low register is my downfall. The same way you work hard for upper
notes, I celebrate if I can extend the range downward a half step in 2
months of practice.
How to get the high register? Lots of people say practicing low notes
improves the high notes. That may be true, but I've never made that
connection. For me, playing well, under control in the high register is
mainly a matter of developing muscle -- realy strong muscle -- in the
lips, particularly in the region that closes off the aperture (as in
"firmness at the edges"). Practicing low notes may be excellent for
developing essential breath support, but I don't see that it does much
for developing the necessary strength in the embouchure for high
altitude playing.
I don't have a perticular practice regimen for the high register. I
just play whatever music is in front of me and really try to concentrate
on playing each note as accurately as I can. Above high Bb, I find
tonguing much more difficult than slurring, so I do work some high
register tonguing into my warm-up.
Bobby Knight
wrote:
>Kent wrote:
>>
>> >>Milt is saying that the average High Schooler will find it out of his
>> >>range. Mr. Knight, who by all indications was way above average, is
>> >>saying that he could have done it.
>
>Are we talking: take a giant breath, squeeze the cheeks together as hard
>as you can, twist your face, jam the mouthpiece 1n, and let out a
>piercing screech that may or may not be a specific note? I know lots of
>high schoolers who can do this, and seem to fancy doing it all the
>time. I have seen hundreds of high schoolers over the years and I never
>met one who could play cleanly, accurately, under compolete control,
>with good tone quality, for long sessions, tongued and legato high C
>through Eb or F. I'm sure there might be a few of them out there who
>can, and I don't doubt that Bobby Knight was one of the exceptions as a
>high schooler.
First of all, if you're talking about the high schooler who plays in
the marching band, and dogs it otherwise, we're on different pages. I
mean players who practice the instrument regularly....
You've added a lot of qualifiers. There aren't a lot of college
players who can play cleanly, accurately, under complete control, with
good tone quality for long sessions...in the MIDDLE register. I just
remember many high school players playing "Blue Bells" in
competitions...and it starts C to high C. That's the same partial as
the D we're discussing. Of course none of them could match Dorsey's
musicial abilities, but they could play Sentimental Over You.
<clip>
>
>I really believe part of this is luck of the genes.
Could be. <clip>
>
>How to get the high register? Lots of people say practicing low notes
>improves the high notes. That may be true, but I've never made that
>connection. For me, playing well, under control in the high register is
>mainly a matter of developing muscle -- realy strong muscle -- in the
>lips, particularly in the region that closes off the aperture (as in
>"firmness at the edges"). Practicing low notes may be excellent for
>developing essential breath support, but I don't see that it does much
>for developing the necessary strength in the embouchure for high
>altitude playing.
It just strengthens your embouchure, period. Can't hurt.
I really believe that teachers can hinder players by telling them that
the high register, or pedal tones, can be difficult. If you think
that, it automatically makes you apprehensive.
John Sunday
<bkn...@verio.net> writes:
>First of all, if you're talking about the high schooler who plays in
>the marching band, and dogs it otherwise, we're on different pages. I
>mean players who practice the instrument regularly....
>clip<
>I just remember many high school players playing "Blue Bells" in
>competitions...and it starts C to high C. That's the same partial as
>the D we're discussing.
I guess I may have fallen into that group mentioned above. I found little time
for practice in high school (1952), except for our daily 45 minute rehearsals.
My highest "usable" note was high C, and I too played Blue Bells..... That was
pretty much the story thru my college days also. Now that I have been retired
for 7 years, I find much more time for practice. I am playing in a concert
band, a trombone quartet and a weekly jam session, and practice most days
anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours. While the high C used to take a lot of
effort, I can now play high D's all night long with no strain. Eb, E, F take
some effort, and I don't have a whole lot of confidence in them yet, but I am
working on it. Practice is the key. As I've mentioned before (and took a lot
of criticism) I play a King 3B Silversonic with a 3G mouthpiece.
In article <3B812837...@netzero.net>, Actikid <acti...@netzero.net>
writes:
>Lots of people say practicing low notes improves the high notes.
I can't say that low notes improve high notes, altho (to BK's comment) "It just
strengthens your embouchure, period. Can't hurt." I do find (in my personal
experience) that playing peddle tones during warmup enhances flexibility, and
shortens the time I need for warmup. When I can hit all the peddle tones from
Bb to E with ease, I'm ready to go.
Les
I had a good range as a young guy, I went to the conservatorium and I
suppose that also aided my range, at the age of 14 I was already entering
solo contests and I could play a high F. I seem to remember that all the
bone players at school and in other school bands I met seemed to have a
fixation that because high B flat was at the time ( circa 60's ) the highest
note you would ever play in brass bands or concert bands then this was the
end of the known world. It was onlt the jazz guys who boldly went where no
one had gone before.
I have been extremely lucky to be able to maintain my range without a lot of
practice.( but I suffer on big nights and the next day) But when I was "in
training" I used to work out of a book called " Practice with the Experts"
and this had so many range building excercises you could not help but to
expand your range. I also do long octave intervals starting on low F and go
until you cannot go any further, I hold each measure for 4, then 2, then 1,
gradually increasing the measure and time. Heaps of live gigs or playing at
real volumes and not pracitce volumes also helps build stamina and that
inturn gives you chops as well.
Hope some of this is of use.
regards
Les
Peter Ward
(John Sunday) wrote:
> Article: 18797 of alt.music.trombone
> Path:
> news.cix.co.uk!peernews.cix.co.uk!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!diablo.
> netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!ne
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> -for-mail
> Lines: 17
> X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
> From: jss...@aol.com (John Sunday)
> Newsgroups: alt.music.trombone
> Date: 19 Aug 2001 16:53:54 GMT
> References: <memo.20010819...@pwardc.compulink.co.uk>
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler
> Subject: Re: Notes on "I'm getting sentimental over you"
> Message-ID: <20010819125354...@nso-fs.aol.com>
> Xref: news.cix.co.uk alt.music.trombone:18797
I've checked the Lindberg recording, as well as having many years ago
checked the original. My trombone teacher who was arranger with a well
know British big band, and during his spell in the army had the chance of
sitting in with Artie Shaw's Navy Band, also told me it was in C sharp/D
flat.
Pete
Milton Brewster
281.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, PAPAGR...@webtv.net ("GRIZ", Gary
L. Kurbis Sr.) says...
> Hey boyz!
> I tried to stay out of this, but you should know, if BK says it was
> "D", it was "D"!
> But I wouldn't worry - most of the folks who would ever request this
> song, to dance to, are in their upper 80's, & most of them, aren't
> fortunate enough to dance with the partner that they first heard this
> tune with. Does the KEY SIG matter to them? Play it in the key of "low
> J", & nobody will even notice!
>
> Griz
>
> trombone is good!
>
hear, hear!!
I wonder what it would sound like, played on a stainless steel
trombone.
m
John Sunday
(Peter Ward) writes:
>I've checked the Lindberg recording, as well as having many years ago
>checked the original. My trombone teacher who was arranger with a well
>know British big band, and during his spell in the army had the chance of
>sitting in with Artie Shaw's Navy Band, also told me it was in C sharp/D
>flat.
I have no idea what key Lindberg plays it in. I understand John Allred plays
it in Bb. I'm convinced that Dorsey did it in D. I have a 78 from the 40's,
and a CD of "The Best of Tommy Dorsey". Both in the key of D. I have a strobe
on my turntable to set turntable speed, so I'm sure it is accurate. As was
stated previously: If BK (Bobby Knight) says it is in D, it is in D. End of
discussion? Probably not :-) As also stated (sort of) previously: What
difference does it really make? If you're going to play it, play it in the key
that is best for you. I prefer the key of D, but usually play it in Bb, since
that seems to "lay" better for most.
Craig
the lower notes on "Sentimental" sounds when TD played it? I believe I have
the most common version.
"Michael Shoshani" <sh0s...@home.com> wrote in message
news:m9hunt8b4dmub60f8...@4ax.com...
Michael H. Pittsley
plays
> it in Bb. I'm convinced that Dorsey did it in D.
I have a video tape of Dorsey on television (from very early 1950's I
believe). He plays a few bars of "Sentimental Over You" and judging by the
positions he's using, he's in the key of D. I understand from an alto sax
player who worked with Dorsey in the late 1940's, that he would sometimes
play it in Bb if his chops were tired.
Incidentally, John Allred is one smokin' jazz 'bone player - one of my
personal favorites. His dad, Bill Allred, is no slouch either.
Mike Pittsley
Michael H. Pittsley
> David Shriver wrote:
> >
> > The trombone is the only wind instrument that can really do a gliss, so
its
> > only natural that we should get to take advantage of this uniqueness, at
> > least occasionally.
> >
> Sorry I can't share that opinion. To me, the gliss is clown schtick and
I think it depends on the trombonist who's playing the gliss. Listen to
Urbie Green's version of 'I've Gotta Right to Sing The Blues' on his second
21 Trombones album. Not only does he employ beautiful slide vibrato, he
does a gliss from Ab in 7th position to a high D in first position - and it
fits the context perfectly.
> the slide vibrato is a stalling maneuver used by players who don't know
> what they are trying to state musically.
I must be missing your point here because I can't believe you really mean
this. Are you saying that Tommy Dorsey, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous, Dick
Nash, Lloyd Ulyate, Murray McEachern, et al, are using slide vibrato as a
"stalling maneuver" because they don't know what they're trying to state
musically?
Bobby Knight
<mpit...@satx.rr.com> wrote:
>"Actikid" <acti...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>news:3B7FB7A9...@netzero.net...
<clip>
>> the slide vibrato is a stalling maneuver used by players who don't know
>> what they are trying to state musically.
>
>I must be missing your point here because I can't believe you really mean
>this. Are you saying that Tommy Dorsey, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous, Dick
>Nash, Lloyd Ulyate, Murray McEachern, et al, are using slide vibrato as a
>"stalling maneuver" because they don't know what they're trying to state
>musically?
I passed on this too, thinking that I must have misread it. You're
dead right Michael. I actually don't even understand his
sentence...stalling maneuver? Frankly, I can't even think of a
player who doesn't use slide vibrato when it's called for. Like any
other part of ones technique, there are times to use it, and to eschew
it.
bk
Kent
wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:29:33 GMT, "Michael H. Pittsley"
I've never quite grasped why vibrato of any type is so frowned upon.
I suspect it is discouraged to prevent newbies from getting carried
away as newbies are prone to do and not use vibrato as a crutch. To
me it is icing on the cake both necessary and easy to use too much. I
like it and don't think it should be discouraged quite so much.
Who cares if it's done with the slide or the chops, or the gut, its
the musical context that counts.
IMHO
kent
ActiKid
>
> > the slide vibrato is a stalling maneuver used by players who don't know
> > what they are trying to state musically.
>
> I must be missing your point here because I can't believe you really mean
> this. Are you saying that Tommy Dorsey, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous, Dick
> Nash, Lloyd Ulyate, Murray McEachern, et al, are using slide vibrato as a
> "stalling maneuver" because they don't know what they're trying to state
> musically?
Yes, or maybe it is just a bad habit. The slide vibrato is completely
unnecessary musically. A lip vibrato achieves a better result under
greater control. The slide vibrato is a matter of presentation, like
the magician does all sorts of gestures to hold your eye while he/she is
manipulating cards. To my eye, this move is hackneyed and tacky. A
great musician doesn't need to do that. Maybe in the swing era when
average people went to see the big bands, the extra schtick was
worthwhile. But nowadays, the only people watching jazz performers are
serious listeners. They are interested in music, not gimmicks.
Others are welcome to the opposite opinion, but that is how I feel.
Less slide wanking. More music.
Bobby Knight
wrote:
No problem with having an opinion. It's just wrong.
John Sunday
writes:
>Others are welcome to the opposite opinion, but that is how I feel.
>Less slide wanking. More music.
I respect anybodys right to their own opinion, no matter how ridiculous it is.
Michael H. Pittsley
"ActiKid" <act...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:3B827A29...@my-deja.com...
> "Michael H. Pittsley" wrote:
> >
> > > the slide vibrato is a stalling maneuver used by players who don't
know
> > > what they are trying to state musically.
> >
> > I must be missing your point here because I can't believe you really
mean
> > this. Are you saying that Tommy Dorsey, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous, Dick
> > Nash, Lloyd Ulyate, Murray McEachern, et al, are using slide vibrato as
a
> > "stalling maneuver" because they don't know what they're trying to state
> > musically?
>
> Yes, or maybe it is just a bad habit.
Not at all. Every one of the trombonists I mentioned is a master of their
instrument and has complete control over what they're playing. The use of
slide vibrato (or any kind of vibrato for that matter) is a musical choice
they make.
> The slide vibrato is completely
> unnecessary musically. A lip vibrato achieves a better result under
> greater control.
I think we may be talking about totally different idioms here. I suspect
you're talking about trombonists in a purely orchestral setting. If that's
the case, I know that slide vibrato is
frowned upon in favor of lip vibrato (or no vibrato at all).
However, for the sort of playing I do (jazz - commercial), slide vibrato is
part and parcel of the music. I've been asked to play 'I'm Getting
Sentimental Over You' many times, and although I try to incorporate some
slight (very slight) personal embellishments, I try to stay very close to
Dorsey's version. I do this simply because that's what's expected of me.
It's pretty much given that anyone who asks a trombonist to play "I'm
Getting Sentimental Over You," has Dorsey's version in his or her mind's
ear, and any major deviation from this will disappoint to the person who
requested it. Sometimes I will vary the amplitude and/or the intensity of
the vibrato to suit the tempo, or to convey a certain "mood," but that's
about it.
> The slide vibrato is a matter of presentation, like
> the magician does all sorts of gestures to hold your eye while he/she is
> manipulating cards.
If that's the case, then why do so many world-class trombonists employ slide
vibrato during recording sessions? They do so because they consider slide
vibrato a valid and useful musical tool and appropriate for the particular
situation that calls for it. If it's nothing more than a visual parlor
trick as you suggest, then using slide vibrato during a recording session
would be akin to a juggler or a mime performing their act on radio.
> But nowadays, the only people watching jazz performers are
> serious listeners. They are interested in music, not gimmicks.
I'm sorry, but I just can't agree that slide vibrato is a "gimmick." It's
just another tool in the trombonist's bag.
Gareth Dunley
""GRIZ", Gary L. Kurbis Sr." <PAPAGR...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13614-3B8...@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
It mattered to me a few years back when I was standing in with a band from
the next county. The MD asked me if I fancied doing Sentimental, and I said
yes (who would turn down a chance like that!). We played a couple of sets,
then there it was on the stand - IN D!! I had always played it in Db. I
don't know or care what key TD played it in; I lost about 30 pounds in sweat
trying to play it in the "wrong key". I know it should be easy to do, but at
sight on the gig when you THINK you know it ......
On the matter of high register - have a look at www.marcusreynolds.co.uk and
download a couple of the files. This guy can play this register for 4 - 5
hours a day; I've been there!
Gareth Dunley
Deepest Wales
ActiKid
>
> :Others are welcome to the opposite opinion, but that is how I feel.
> :Less slide wanking. More music.
>
> No problem with having an opinion. It's just wrong.
No problem. That happens all the time. :)
It is all a matter of taste. I don't have as much trouble listening to
Kenny G as some other people, but I just don't like seeing trombonists
do that slide vibrato thing. I guess if I were to be consistent, I
would object to the Kenny G hip gyrations as the same false theatrics as
the slide vibrato. I guess I don't expect much out of Kenny G, and I
understand he is appealing to a more lowbrow audience. I just think the
trombone should be more dignified.
Just to make sure I'm not being misunderstood, I don't have a problem
with vibrato (assuming it is used in appropriate places). It is simply
that I can accomplish any vibrato sound that I need simply using the
lips and breath. If you think about it, the people who do the slide
vibrato correctly are buzzing a constant pitch. They are not using the
slide to vary the pitch (they had better not be anyway -- that sounds
like rush hour in Hong Kong). By moving the slide, they are shifting
the "center" of the pitch, which changes the timbre a little bit. If
you listen to (not watch) the slide vibrato, its effect is really quite
small. I can achieve that slight vibrato, or a much greater sweep in
timber using only the lips -- never moving the slide. That is why I say
the slide vibrato is completely unnecessarily musically and
to me is more of a distraction than an enhancement to the music. As I
say, it is my opinion, and probably a minority opinion at that.
I think most players leave the vast possibilities of lip-only timbre
changes unexplored. Last evening, I had a big band rehearsal. There
was a section where the trumpets and trombones together did some offbeat
half note accents. The director decided to give those a "wah" attack
instead. He asked for us to do that with hand over bell. The problem
was that in my part, the last of the "wahs" was followed a beat later by
a low B (both triggers down, plus a reach with the slide. I couldn't do
the hand over bell and get that B. But with a breath attack and a
little pinching of the lips, I found I could do a "wah" that was
actually more pronounced than the "wah" the guys were doing with their
hands.
ActiKid
Those guys aren't gods. They are great players who have developed
superb skills and I enjoy much of what they do. But we all operate
under many musical influences. Some of those influences help move the
art forward. Some hold it back. IMHO, the slide vibrato is one of
those things that links to a bygone era. I know a lot of people have
great fondness for those days, but my tastes run to the more modern.
I notice you didn't include Steve Turre on that list. I saw him several
months ago. I'm guessing he knows how to do a slide vibrato. But if he
did one during his 90-minute set, I missed it. It could be he did a
whole bunch of them that I didn't notice because he wasn't trying to
call attention to that. Perhaps I should amend my comment to say what I
object to is trombonists who make the slide vibrato the central feature
of their playing, as in "look at me, I'm wagging my slide around. Can
you see me? I have a slide in my hand." It makes me nervous to watch
people like that.
ActiKid
>
> I think we may be talking about totally different idioms here. I suspect
> you're talking about trombonists in a purely orchestral setting. If that's
> the case, I know that slide vibrato is
> frowned upon in favor of lip vibrato (or no vibrato at all).
classical music (unless one is a violinist or singer).
> However, for the sort of playing I do (jazz - commercial), slide vibrato is
> part and parcel of the music. I've been asked to play 'I'm Getting
> Sentimental Over You' many times, and although I try to incorporate some
> slight (very slight) personal embellishments, I try to stay very close to
> Dorsey's version. I do this simply because that's what's expected of me.
> It's pretty much given that anyone who asks a trombonist to play "I'm
> Getting Sentimental Over You," has Dorsey's version in his or her mind's
> ear, and any major deviation from this will disappoint to the person who
> requested it. Sometimes I will vary the amplitude and/or the intensity of
> the vibrato to suit the tempo, or to convey a certain "mood," but that's
> about it.
I agree it is how they played 80 years ago. If you are being employed
to do a faithful recreation of that era, then I suppose the slide
vibrato is part of that. But most of the people who remember how Dorsey
used to do it have passed on by now.
I've never felt any pressure to use the slide vibrato, even when playing
music from that era. Once or twice the lead trombonist has asked for it
during a soli section (which is another can of worms I'm not going to
open). I can't recall a band leader ever mentioning slide vibrato. But
then, I don't go out of my way to play swing era gigs these days.
John Sunday
Pittsley" <mpit...@satx.rr.com> writes:
>Incidentally, John Allred is one smokin' jazz 'bone player - one of my
>personal favorites. His dad, Bill Allred, is no slouch either.
I was listening to Bill Allred in Rock Island, IL about 35 years ago. Bill
Allred's Classic Jazz Band has appeared here in The Villages several times in
the last few years. They performed here every Monday night in November last
year in our "Music Hall". No cover, no minimum, free except for the cost of
your drinks, etc. How can you beat that? John was working in New York, but
was home (Orlando area) for Thanksgiving, so performed with the band for 2 of
those Monday nights. Only one word to *attempt* to describe that group:
***WOW***. On one other occasion David Steinmeyer filled the 2nd trombone
spot.
Are you familiar with a trombone player named Harold Betters? He was visiting
a friend of his in The Villages a few weeks ago, and joined our weekly jam
session. It was a fantastic 4 hour fun gig played to a packed house.. About a
week later I was surprised to receive his latest CD, a photo his wife had taken
of my wife and I, and a note with some very kind words "From one trombone
player to another". A night to remember.
John Sunday
writes:
>But most of the people who remember how Dorsey
>used to do it have passed on by now.
I have no idea how old you are. Dorsey recorded many of his hits in the late
30's to mid 40's. I believe the Dorsey Brothers TV show appeared in the early
to mid 50's. I first became interested in Tommy Dorsey in the mid 40's. I'm
67 and still playing a lot of trombone. I know that might seem really ancient
to you, but there are a LOT of us still around. :-) Incidentally, Bill Allred
(who was mentioned by someone on the NG a few days ago) is just about my age.
Carl Fontana is 6 years older, as is Harold Betters. All still great
performers, when they can manage to get out of the "old folks home". :-)
John Lowe
ActiKid wrote:
>
>
SNIP
> I agree it is how they played 80 years ago. If you are being employed
> to do a faithful recreation of that era, then I suppose the slide
> vibrato is part of that. But most of the people who remember how Dorsey
> used to do it have passed on by now.
>
I'd consider that a good reason to do a slide vibrato on such occasions.
Recreating the era isn't just about pleasing those who remember it, it's
also about educating those who did not.
John Lowe
Jerry Lapham
> I've never quite grasped why vibrato of any type is so frowned upon. I
> suspect it is discouraged to prevent newbies from getting carried away
> as newbies are prone to do and not use vibrato as a crutch.
Or perhaps because it's used by a lot of singers to conceal the fact that
they are basically tone-deaf. :-)
> Who cares if it's done with the slide or the chops, or the gut, its the
> musical context that counts.
And as a general rule, I don't care for it. Just personal preference.
-Jerry
--
============================================================
Jerry Lapham, Monroe, OH
E-Mail: rjla...@infinet.com
Written Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:43 PM (EDT)
============================================================
MR/2 Ice tag: Hard work never hurt anyone--but why risk it?
MartinG
I had sat and written a lengthy reply, but I'm afraid that it boils down to
this;
37 + messages on what key a solo is in and who would have been or is
currently capable of playing it (pointless speculation based on an
individual's personal experience and not necessarily directly comparable
with any other individual)...
sorry to be negative, but........
don't care! (Also a valid opinion!)
Vibrato..we've been here before guys, again all opinions are equally valid
and relevant to the individual, I can't stand it myself but others obviously
like it..no-one's opinion will be chaged by a ng discussion on this......
:-))
MartinG
Andy Derrick
wrote:
>"Michael H. Pittsley" wrote:
>>
>> I think we may be talking about totally different idioms here. I suspect
>> you're talking about trombonists in a purely orchestral setting. If that's
>> the case, I know that slide vibrato is
>> frowned upon in favor of lip vibrato (or no vibrato at all).
>
>No, I'm talking jazz / commercial. There are rarely any vibratos in
>classical music (unless one is a violinist or singer).
I saw a solo recital by Ron Barron and he employed slide vibrato as an
aid to expression. Slide vibrato is used in orchestral circles for
example in the trombone solo in Ravel's Bolero and in the solo in
L'enfant et les sortilèges. It is trus they are a parody or pastiche
of the Jazz style current at that time, they are however valid use of
slide vibrato.
My own opinion is that the trombone sound needs to be constantly
supported by the air column. Lip vib is something that interrupts
that. The effect is similar when euphonium players play trombone and
try to lip notes in tune instead of moving the slide. The sound
suddenly folds up. With slide vib, the integrity of the air column is
maintained and the speed and intensity of the vibrato can be finely
controlled with the slide.
I think actikid's dislike of slide vib could be more of a dislike of
the old guys bands and some of the band members you may have had to
endure as a youngster. I know I certainly hated playing Glenn Miller
only gigs, 3 nights a week and having to do slide vib on a knackered
bass trombone. Nowadays, I have come to listen to more music of that
era, and I do appreciate its good qualities a lot more.
--
Visit the Andy Derrick Group - Jazz trombones
Go to http://www.andyderrick.com
Gig list - MP3 files - free sheet music
John Sunday
writes:
>sorry to be negative, but........don't care! (Also a valid opinion!)
If you don't care, why do you bother reading them? I don't care much about
bass trombone comparisons, wireless microphones, history of the King
Liberty/2B, etc. After reading a few, I make judicious use of the "Delete"
key. That option is open to anyone. Don't waste your time on subjects when
you "don't care!" I think your message on "...I'm getting sentimental over
you" may have pushed the total to 38+, but who's counting? :-)
Actikid
>
> I think actikid's dislike of slide vib could be more of a dislike of
> the old guys bands and some of the band members you may have had to
> endure as a youngster. I know I certainly hated playing Glenn Miller
> only gigs, 3 nights a week and having to do slide vib on a knackered
> bass trombone. Nowadays, I have come to listen to more music of that
> era, and I do appreciate its good qualities a lot more.
Probably true. I guess I have some deep seeded issues. :)
Milton Brewster
says...
different kinds of vibratos (slide, lip and shaking the horn)? I
suspect that vibrato has its place. I also think that a little
vibrato goes a very long way.
Perhaps the typical trombonist hasn't thought much about vibrato
techniques and uses it inappropriately. I often hear players use
a slow or wobbly vibrato that takes away from the melodic line
they are playing. The Guy Lombardo "permanent" vibrato is awful
(for me) to listen to, and it must have been a nightmare for him
to keep his band in tune. I don't know how in the world a
trombone section playing a close harmony passage using vibrato
can stay in tune (maybe someone here can tell me).
On the other hand, if vocalists, violinists, saxophones, trumpets
and other instruments can use vibrato as an expressive tool in
their performance repertoire, then the Trombonist ought to be
able to use it sparingly as well, in the same situations.
I think the REAL questions here, are 1) what does the vibrato
express? and 2) when and how is a vibrato appropriate to use?
milt b
Milton Brewster
says...
My original point had everything to do with music and almost
nothing to do with what key it is played in.
I still think that TD played the five most important notes ever
played on the trombone when he recorded "I'm getting sentimental
over you." I think it was music.
*****
Nevertheless, I've learned my lesson. Discussing music is like
discussing religion. Everybody has a different opinion, nobody
can prove anything, and strongly held opinions tends to force out
thoughtful or objective observations. Perhaps mouthpieces are
safer to discuss.
milt b
MartinG
"sorry to be negative, but........don't care! (Also a valid opinion!)"
is why...it's an opinion expressed for a reason ;-)
MartinG
Michael H. Pittsley
Bill
> Allred's Classic Jazz Band has appeared here in The Villages several times
in
> the last few years. They performed here every Monday night in November
last
> year in our "Music Hall". No cover, no minimum, free except for the cost
of
> your drinks, etc. How can you beat that? John was working in New York,
but
> was home (Orlando area) for Thanksgiving, so performed with the band for 2
of
> those Monday nights. Only one word to *attempt* to describe that group:
> ***WOW***.
I couldn't agree with you more. Talk about one hot, swingin' ensemble!
Bill's band is much in demand and has been a big hit on the festival circuit
for several years now.
> On one other occasion David Steinmeyer filled the 2nd trombone
> spot.
Bill Allred and Dave Steinmeyer? They must have burned the place down!
Incidentally, Bill Allred made a CD not too long ago with another one of my
favorite jazz trombonists, Roy Williams (Roy is from the UK and is not quite
as well known here in the US, but he's a marvelous player). Their
individual styles compliment each other and they really sound great
together.
> Are you familiar with a trombone player named Harold Betters?
Yes, but I'm sorry to say I've only heard small samples of his playing.
From what little I've heard, he seems to play with a lot of enthusiasm.
> He was visiting
> a friend of his in The Villages a few weeks ago, and joined our weekly jam
> session. It was a fantastic 4 hour fun gig played to a packed house.
It sounds like you really had a ball. Nights like that are why we do this
and seem to make it all worth it.
Gonzo
"Yes, but I'm sorry to say I've only heard small samples of his
playing.
From what little I've heard, he seems to play with a lot of
enthusiasm."
Harold is from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (USA) and is a great jazz
player. I have a record of his that I haven't listened to in years,
but this makes me want to go do that. In fact, I am! Anyway, grew up
in Pittsburgh, and my dad always said we whoudl go down to his club
and listen to him. I'm sad to say I never took him up on that. I
suppose I could now, but my dad has lost much of his hearing and I
don't think it would be to enjoyable for him anymore.
Heading down to the stereo,
Gonzo
Brad & Susan Brown
than your pain. I hope so for your sake anyway.
I also think that the amazing number of posts for this thread clearly makes
your point. It is pretty neat that we (bone players) can decide what key to
play in and can be the featured instrument and even do slide vibe. Our
instrument has come along way from that day in the Nile and the Dolphemabone
era ;-) (see Trombone History thread of 8/25).
It is nice to be taken seriously and to have enough parts written for us
that we can be musical snobs of sorts and decide how to play rather than
taking any job available and counting rests. Thanks for the great
discussion. I have learned a ton .... so far.
"Milton Brewster" <scri...@best.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15ec672f2...@nntp.best.com...
Jon Moeller
> How to get the high register? Lots of people say practicing low notes
> improves the high notes. That may be true, but I've never made that
> connection. For me, playing well, under control in the high register is
> mainly a matter of developing muscle -- realy strong muscle -- in the
> lips, particularly in the region that closes off the aperture (as in
> "firmness at the edges"). Practicing low notes may be excellent for
> developing essential breath support, but I don't see that it does much
> for developing the necessary strength in the embouchure for high
> altitude playing.
well, playing low pedal notes makes you target the corner muscles, because
they are the only ones you can tighten to be able to get that low
Actikid
Could be, but for me, those aren't the muscles that are most important
for playing high under control. If you try to use those muscles for the
high register, the only choice is to stretch the lips really tight. I
don't feel that control is easy to achieve in that configuration. For
the high register, I go for a much smaller aperture, which means I
concentrate on the muscles much closer to the middle of the lips. It is
like the difference between a trumpet mouthpiece and a trombone
mouthpiece. When you do that, the lips don't have to be nearly as
tense, which allows more control, comfort, and endurance, IMHO.
Strength anywhere is the embouchure is a good thing though. I'm
certainly not against practicing the low register. I just don't
experience a connection between low practice and high results. When I
need to be in my best shape on the high register, I practice the high
register.
Mark Conrad
question anyway.
Can anyone recommend a currently in print "authentic" big band
arrangement of "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You". I'd be looking for
one in D or Eb or Db, but not a version in Bb. Our band has a lot of
mature listeners that love any of the standards, and I'd like the
challenge of the higher key.
Along the same lines, can anyone recommend a good trombone fake book
type thing with famous trombone standards in the original keys? Just
wondering.
Thanks!
Mark Conrad
Greece Jazz Band
Rochester, NY
Milton Brewster
m...@pt.com says...
I nosed around a little last night on Google and nothing came
readily to the screen. I *did* find a letter posted to the
trombone-l list that refers to three Band Arrangements, and I
also found a listing at the following UK publisher website:
****
www.lushlifemusic.co.uk/arrangements/
I'm Getting Sentimental Over You
By Ned Washington & George Bassman
£ 22.00
Transcribed & re-scored by Myles Collins
Style: Instrumental ballad @ 85 b.p.m.
Duration: 4 mins 15 secs
This is the theme tune for the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra, and
perhaps the definitive solo vehicle for Trombone, where the
melody brings out the best of the instrument. This arrangement is
true to the original, with the solo part written on 1st Trombone,
excepting that the sax backings are not taken on full section
clarinet doubles (including bass clarinet), but have reverted
back to standard sax section voicing to avoid awkward, and nearly
impossibly quick changing of instruments. The solo trombone range
is from stave F# to high C#, and the arrangement is in the
(original) key of D.
******
Also; I suspect that IGSoY would not be too hard to transcribe
if you had something like Finale or Encore to help out. It's a
fairly straightforward piece. Once you got the basic lines down
and the chords marked, it wouldn't be too hard to fill everything
else in. Encore/Finale/Sibelius/Cakewalk would also print out
individual part sheets for you. Still; it would probably take
more than a few dozen hours to get everything written, debugged
and printed out.
I fiddled around with a more ambitious version a few years ago. I
got it presentable in about 30 hours, but I was taking my time.
If I were seriously going to 'steal' the arrangement, I'd use
notation software and I think I'd put out versions in D, Eb and
Bb for bands that found those other keys convenient.
milt b
Peter Mansfield
Milton Brewster <scri...@best.com> wrote:
>> Perhaps mouthpieces are safer to discuss.
At your own risk, buddy! ;~}
--