Conn 88HY (Lindberg model) or Bach 42T or Besson 944R ?
Jean-Christophe MONIER
I plan to sold them to buy a large bore trombone.
Witch is the best :
Conn 88HY (Christian Lindberg model)
Bach 42T (like 42B but with Thayer valve)
Besson 944R (the one played by Denis Wick and Jacqueds Mauger).
Hope your help.
Ross
impressions from reading many online posts:
Conn 88HY - very flexible, sweet sound, strongly preferred by it's
partisans
Bach 42T - huge symphonic sound, strongly preferred by it's
partisans
Besson 944R - don't know anything about it
Elliott Moxley
Ross wrote:
> I imagine that would depend on what you want to play on it. My
> impressions from reading many online posts:
>
> Conn 88HY - very flexible, sweet sound, strongly preferred by it's
> partisans
> Bach 42T - huge symphonic sound, strongly preferred by it's
> partisans
> Besson 944R - don't know anything about it
I think that in getting the Bach 42 with the lightweight nickle/brass
slide and gold brass bell, you are combining the best qualities of the
Elkhart 88Hs and the standard (yellow brass) 42s.
Sue
Mark Chittenden
the instrument for. I assume you're buying new, in which case try as many
different horns as you can from each manufacturer. In my experience the Conn
is more flexible than the Bach, a little warmer sounding but has a tendency
to break up when played very loud in a large orchestral piece.
The Bach has a heavier, but slightly brighter sound, is not so responsive
and is particularly suited to large ensemble playing. Don't bother with
lightweight slides and gold brass bells on the Bach - in my experience they
compromise the traditional Bach sound. However, I've heard there is a 3
month waiting list for the Thayer valve version 42 so if that's the
instrument you decide upon you may have to take whatever you are given from
Bach's.
I've never played the new Besson but I've heard its quite good. I've played
the old style B&H Sovereign that Denis Wick designed and it played a bit
like a Bach. Although DW designed the Sovereign about 25 years ago with B&H
he rarely actually played on one. Seeing him play with the LSO in the late
70's and 80's he mostly used a straight Bach with a B&H counterweight to
confuse everyone.
Have you considered Edwards or Shires. I'm not sure about the pricing policy
of Shires but Edwards are quite a bit more expensive then either a Conn or
Bach, but they are fully modular and customisable and are establishing a
very good reputation for quality amongst professionals.
Good luck
MC
Jean-Christophe MONIER <jcmo...@euriware.fr> wrote in message
news:39473D85...@euriware.fr...
actikid
>
> However, I've heard there is a 3
> month waiting list for the Thayer valve version 42 so if that's the
> instrument you decide upon you may have to take whatever you are given from
> Bach's.
I've heard everything from 12 months to "discontinued" for the 42T.
None of this comes from official sources. However, Bach did seem to
have some licensing problems with their Thayer supplier. They offer
conventional rotor, K valve, and the recently launched Hegeman valve.
With such a varied product line, perhaps they have decided that the
Thayer wasn't worth the legal headache.
Howard Smith
I'm Howard, an amateur player from Leicester (UK).
Jacques Mauger plays the new Besson 944 (I'm not sure which bell option he
prefers, red(R) or yellow). These trombones have also been adopted by the
City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra section who are reported to prefer
"the darker sound" of the red bells.
My own trombone is the Courtois 400T convertible which I play mostly with
the F section in place. BTW, Courtois have also opted for the Haagman Valve
on their recent models.
Does anyone else out there play a Courtois? Your views would be welcome.
Howard
Gareth Dunley
thought nothing would better it! The Rath is a dream of a bone. I'm not
connected with them, but fell in love with it.
Gareth Dunley
Teacher and part time pro
Wales, UK
Howard Smith <Howard...@care4free.net> wrote in message
news:8ibltv$e3h$1...@lure.pipex.net...
Howard Smith
played one. Almost too scared to try anything that I would love but which
would be out of my reach financially. I thought that Nick Hudson had started
playing a Rath, but according to his website he is using a new Besson 944.
Howard
Gareth Dunley <Gar...@dunley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8iosb1$ktp$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Gareth Dunley
--
Best regards,
Gareth Dunley
www.dunley.freeserve.co.uk
I haven't lost my mind;
It's backed up on disk somewhere
Howard Smith <Howard...@care4free.net> wrote in message
news:8irfd9$vd$1...@lure.pipex.net...
Peter Mansfield
Howard.Smith wrote:
> Jacques Mauger plays the new Besson 944 (I'm not sure which bell option he
> prefers, red(R) or yellow).
We should possbly mention that Jacques is a contracted Besson Artist. Whther he would but one
if that weren't the case is another question. having siad tha, I tried one last year and was
most impressed.
> Does anyone else out there play a Courtois? Your views would be welcome.
I'm using the Prestige Hagmann/detachable bell model. It's very like a Bach 42 to handle
and a similar sound concept. It suffers a bit from the French vice of a flat open D, and is also built a bit flat
otherwise I like it. It needs serious chops to get the sound it's capable of, again like a Bach,
but it's fine if you don't weaken. I'm using it with a Schilke 52E. The Bach 4G sounds better, but my face
likes the Schilke rim. My colleague is using the Courtois Bass - we have a band set -
and reckons it's the best thing he's played -
and he's a Conn man, normally.
PeterM
--
Howard Smith
Peter Mansfield <pet...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4f2929d...@user.argonet.co.uk...
> Greetings, Howard and g'day all
>Whther he would but one if that weren't the case is another question.
having >siad tha, I tried one last year and was most impressed.
I saw J.Mauger at a workshop in Birmingham and we had a brief chat about the
relative merits of Besson/Courtois. He said he didn't like the French bone
because he found it broke up too easily for him in loud passages.
> I'm using the Prestige Hagmann/detachable bell model. It's very like a
Bach >42 to handle
I thought they had stopped the detachable option. The catalogue I have shows
a non-detachable bell on the Hagmann Prestige. Did you get a special deal
from Jonathan Edwards in Oldham? :-)
I used to play a Bach 42 before the Courtois and the biggest difference I
found was that the Courtois was much more free blowing and more responsive
generally.
However I seem to have a big problem with hitting and holding the tone
quality on a concert G (brass bander's top A) in short second position. It
is much more secure in 4th. Could this be the instrument or am I entirely to
blame?
Does anyone else have a particular note they dread / don't like / don't have
confidence in, on a particular trombone, (but perhaps not on another)?
> and a similar sound concept. It suffers a bit from the French vice of a
flat >open D, and is also built a bit flat...
I hadn't noticed. BTW I use a Schilke 51D or sometimes a 51 which I found a
bit less stuffy than the Bach 5G I used to play on.
Cheers
Howard
Mark Chittenden
Howard Smith wrote:
> Does anyone else have a particular note they dread / don't like / don't
have
> confidence in, on a particular trombone, (but perhaps not on another)?
My "trusty" old Bach 42B has a really dodgy high Ab - its sounds dull and
when I try to attack the note it invariably cracks. Its as though it has a
very wide slot to it, so hitting it accurately requires a certain amount of
luck. Also the high Bb rings, and this can be disconcerting. The F-valve
notes are also pretty stuffy. Infact the more I think about it I reckon I've
got a rubbish trombone.
Does anyone out there want to buy a bashed up old 42B? Several, not very
careful owners, plays like a dream (if nightmares are dreams)!!!
MC
actikid
Well, that certainly went downhill in a hurry. Quick, nurses! Sedate
this man before he throws that trombone out the window. :)
For quite a long time, I had worked a job that had a heavy travel
requirement. I tried to maintain some involvement with musical groups I
had performed with earlier. Of course, they kept playing material with
the same degree of challenges. At the same time, my level of play was
eroding. I found some "bad spots" appear my horn (a 42B at that time)
that made for very treacherous play. The point here is that, while
these bad spots may have moved to a different place on a different horn,
the fundamental problem was me.
I have quite a few horns these days. Some are easier to play in certain
ranges than others, but I don't notice particular notes being harder to
attack cleanly than others. Certainly as you get higher, greater
strength and breath control are required to make a clean attack, but I
haven't experienced the phenomenon you describe.
What I have experienced is surprising intonation on certain of the
partials on certain horns. For example, on one horn if I tune the F
attachment to play C on the staff in a closed 1st with the trigger, then
the F below that is too flat. It took me awhile to figure this out
because my ear was making me lip this note up. That subconscious
reaction was causing me to miss the center of the note by a wide
margin. Of course the problem can be solved by tuning the F attachment
shorter and playing the C in a long 1st position.
I'm wondering if something like that is going on with your high Ab. If
your slide is in the wrong place by even 1/4" you might be lipping it so
much that you miss the attack.
Mark Chittenden
actikid wrote:
The point here is that, while
> these bad spots may have moved to a different place on a different horn,
> the fundamental problem was me.
>
> I'm wondering if something like that is going on with your high Ab. If
> your slide is in the wrong place by even 1/4" you might be lipping it so
> much that you miss the attack
Yes, part of the problem could me, but I've tried adjusting the slide
position, if only to brighten the sound quality and it hasn't been that
successful. The whole harmonic has a wide "slot" except, strangely enough,
the high Bb, which rings but is very solid - a note I hardly ever split.
This means that accurately hitting the other notes of the harmonic
problematic - most pronounced on the high Ab...........The more I describe
it to you and myself the worse it gets!! Any offers for a duff 42B
gratefully received!!.............Edward's come to the rescue!!!
MC
Mark Chittenden
Dafydd y garreg wen
>
> Howard Smith wrote:
>
> > Does anyone else have a particular note they dread / don't like / don't
> have
> > confidence in, on a particular trombone, (but perhaps not on another)?
>
> My "trusty" old Bach 42B has a really dodgy high Ab - its sounds dull and
> when I try to attack the note it invariably cracks. Its as though it has a
> very wide slot to it, so hitting it accurately requires a certain amount of
> luck. Also the high Bb rings, and this can be disconcerting. The F-valve
> notes are also pretty stuffy. Infact the more I think about it I reckon I've
> got a rubbish trombone.
My "rusty" old Bach 50B2L has a couple of odd spots - on the first trigger
the higher notes have a marked tendency to slip flat if not approached
with the utmost control. Low Eb is the worst; it's nigh-on impossible to
play it piano without a rather wooden sound. Actually, I lie - F is worse,
but that's so bad that I always play it in 6th. Strangely enough, E is
okay. The D and Db are now fine, but were very tricky for me when I bought
the instrument (when I was 14 - I'd only taken up trombone the year
before). I remember playing 'Ballet for Band' (Joseph Horovitz) with the
National Youth Brass Band, and being extremely embarrassed by my flatness
in the long quiet section in the key of Db which uses a trombone bass all
through. The other odd feature is that when I try to slur from a 4th
partial Bb up Bb-F-Bb (8th harmonic) at piano, I almost invariably hit a C
9th harmonic cleanly instead of the Bb. The Bb has a marked tendency to
split, so I'm guessing that there's a dent somewhere affecting it. Haven't
been able to find one though.
Slightly tangentially, has anyone else noticed a tendency of Besson/B&H
Sovereign Eb tubas to split on the F at the bottom of the bass staff?
I have great trouble keeping this note under control.
Dave Taylor