Marching trombones/Flugabones, etc.
RPatchell
looks vaguely like a large cornet and not something that looks like a
traditional trombone with a valve cluster.
Several companies make horns like this. The one I am most familiar with is the
Kanstal Flugabone. What are some others? Which ones are the best? Are there
any with 4 valves?
Roy Patchell
Ross
This was after earlier buying and then later selling a King Flugabone
model 1130. From what I've seen, the Kanstul Flugalbone is almost
a dead-on copy of the King, as I believe Kanstul developed the Flugabone
while working at King.
Dear Sirs:
Below I offer my unsolicited opinions on your M200S instrument, verses a King 1130 Flugabone (lacquer) which I purchased a year ago:
Delivery time:
King: Three months, far too long.
Blessing: Three months, far too long.
Overall cosmetic appearance:
King: Had several unsightly spots near the bell
rim wire where red/brown polishing rouge was trapped under the lacquer,
and had one small ding already in the bell throat area.
Blessing: Outstanding cosmetic appearance.
Slides:
King: Third valve slide sticky due to being "sprung"
when aligned to the other half of the slide.
Blessing: Second valve slide a bit loose, hard to keep fixed at one setting.
Case:
King: Very awkward double trapezoidal case, much
bigger than necessary. Anything (like sheet music) you set on top
will slide off. Despite huge size, no room for mutes.
Blessing: Nice compact rectangular case, also with no room for mutes. Slight problem: No mouthpiece port(s), so the mouthpiece can slide around in the accessory compartment.
Cost:
King: Expensive!! circa $1000 lacquer, $1140 silverplated
via local dealer.
Blessing: Less Expensive, $729 lacquer, $809 silverplated
via WW and BW.
Acoustic Impedance (sometimes referred to as intonation):
King: Low impedance overall (free blowing), but
very bad increase in impedance on 1_3 or 123 valve combinations.
Some notes are practically unplayable in a melody line due to the impedance
increase.
Blessing: Moderate impedance, more uniform over range, but still stuffy in lower register.
Tone Quality:
King: Excellent in high range, very poor in parts
of low range.
Blessing: Very good in high range. Low range OK, but hard to produce big volume. Brighter sound, probably due to silverplating. Can make it sound like a trumpet pretty easily, if desired.
Useability Issues:
King: Tight tubing bends in several places made it impossible to snake out certain parts of the instrument. Third valve slide is not nearly free enough to use the finger ring to push the slide dynamically. Annealed bell bend is so soft it can be dented by wedging action against the stiff foam in the case.
Blessing: One tight tubing bend in a different place. Could use a third water key to avoid the need to roll over the instrument to drizzle water out of the bell.
Valves:
King: Average quality nickle-plated valves, 1 and
3 were periodically sticky even after several months use. Felts on
valve top caps kept floating up.
Blessing: Excellent quality Monel valves, very slight stickiness new but quickly broken in, solid rubbery "felts" will obviously stay put.
I don't know of any with 4 valves, and I don't think you'd want one
if it existed, because all that contortion of the tubing would make for
high stuffiness. Cerveny in the Czech Republic makes a 3 rotary valve
unit. Also, the Woodwind and Brasswind folks warned me that the DEG
Dynabone has rather poor intonation.
Neal
like a cornet being called a "trombone"?
Ross wrote in message <3940EEAD...@fuse.net>...
ActiKid
>
> I am interested in getting a marching trombone. By this, I mean a thing that
> looks vaguely like a large cornet and not something that looks like a
> traditional trombone with a valve cluster.
>
> Kanstal Flugabone. What are some others? Which ones are the best? Are there
> any with 4 valves?
The Kanstul one is very nice. Decades ago, Kanstul designed this same
instrument while working at F.E. Olds in Fullerton. Olds made many of
these. They are strong as a tank, and pretty good players. You see
them about every other week on eBay. Nowadays, they are running about
$300 in rough condition.
I think there is a guy running a dutch auction of 7 King flugabones
right now. They sound pretty beat up, but playable. I doubt that these
will all sell, so the price will probably $250. These are similar to
the Olds/Kanstul ones.
Nowadays the Olds brand name is stamped on Blessing marching trombones.
They are a similar configuration. I have not played one.
I think DEG/Weril also makes one. I haven't played it.
My experience is that the Olds plays better than any conventional valve
trombone I have played. It is less stuffy, probably mainly because of
its .520 bore and more open wrap. The instrument is indestructible,
which is good fop marching, but that makes it a little dead. I think
the Kanstul may be a little more lively. With the Olds, I have trouble
playing loudly enough to balance in section, but it is a wonderful
instrument for soloing and combo work (one trombone in a line with
trumpet and sax, e.g.). It is about the cheapest trombone I own, and
may be my favorite. (Who am I kidding? They are all my favorites.)
actikid
>
> There are two basic designs for marching trombones that I'm aware of,
> the King/Kanstul/(older Olds?) version, which is .500" or .509" bore
> and looks like this:
Your picture is of the King Flugabone. As far as I know, King is the
only company selling this particular instrument.
The Fullerton Olds horns were designed and produced by Zig Kanstul and
they have a .520 bore, which I think is a sensible size for a valve
trombone. It mellows it out more like a flugelhorn tone.
The Kanstul horns today look almost identical to the original Fullerton
Olds horns. The biggest difference I could see was that the valve caps
are huge on the new Kanstuls. I'm sure there are some subtle
refinements as well. I think the valves are an improved technology,
although the Olds ones were not bad. As far as I know, the Kanstul horn
retained that same .520 bore from the Olds days.
Did you say you have one of the Blessings? How does it play? People
seem to be very happy with Blessing products across the board. Do you
ever play it in section with slide trombones? Any observations about
that?
Speed RacerX2K
well. I compared it to my 36 and it fared pretty well. The 36 beat it by far
though.
Ross
trombone "Flugelbone" as a .509" bore, and it looks just like the King
"Flugabone", but I don't know how it plays.
http://www.kanstulmusic.com/k_march.htm
(go down the page a bit).
I like the Blessing M200S so far, but I'm just an amateur picking up the
instrument, not a professional player. As per my earlier post it seems
better than the King on a number of counts. Nice mid and high range, but
difficult to put out volume in the low range. Somebody else would have to
listen to the instrument and render a judgement compared to a slide.
