Bb or C?
Jack Wright
tenor trombone in the key of Bb or C? I played a tenor 'bone in jr high
band back in the late 60's and have thought for all of these years that
it was in the key of Bb but people are telling me now that a tenor 'bone
is in non-transposing concert C. I've inquired at local music stores
and I've been told both Bb and C depending on who I asked. Which is
correct?
Richard Bush
both answers are, in a way, correct. Baritone or euphonium functions the
same way when reading a bass clef part. Only when the player is handed a
treble clef part does he then read a Bb transposed part. When doing this,
the player is using the same fingering/note relationship as a trumpet
player. The difference is that all sounds come out an octave lower. Years
ago it was common to transfer trumpet or cornet players to baritone and
have them read treble clef parts. Today, the trend is to have them learn
bass clef fingerings (what they're actually playing) and play bass clef
music.
Jack Wright wrote:
-- Richard Bush
Bassoon Reed Maker
Nigel Horne
> Tenor trombone is pitched in Bb but reads untransposed, bass clef music.
In a brass band the tenor trombone plays treble clef, transposed up a major
9th.
--
Nigel Horne. Arranger, Composer, Conductor, Typesetter.
Owner of the brass band group of the Internet. ICQ#20252325
n...@despammed.com http://www.bandsman.co.uk/music.htm
Richard Bush
Isn't this a practice in only British brass bands?
Nigel Horne wrote:
-- Richard Bush
Bassoon Reed Maker
Actikid
Richard Bush wrote:
>
> Tenor trombone is pitched in Bb but reads untransposed, bass clef music. So
> both answers are, in a way, correct. Baritone or euphonium functions the
> same way when reading a bass clef part. Only when the player is handed a
> treble clef part does he then read a Bb transposed part. When doing this,
> the player is using the same fingering/note relationship as a trumpet
> player. The difference is that all sounds come out an octave lower. Years
> ago it was common to transfer trumpet or cornet players to baritone and
> have them read treble clef parts. Today, the trend is to have them learn
> bass clef fingerings (what they're actually playing) and play bass clef
> music.
>
Yes, the key thing (bad pun intended) is to separate the instrument from
the dots. The instrument is usually in Bb, but some are in C, F, Eb, or
G. The dots are usually in concert pitch ("C" if you like), but
trombonists also regularly play dots written in Bb (British Band), F
(french horn parts), and Eb (bari sax parts), plus tenor and alto clef
in concert pitch.
I realize the trombone is conventionally described as "non-transposing",
but it sure feels like transposing when I read a tenor clef part on an
Eb alto.
Dafydd y garreg wen
<rbushi...@home.com> writes
>Nigel,
>
>Isn't this a practice in only British brass bands?
That's a sizeable enough only...
As standard practice in a reasonably widely defined ensemble, I can't
bring any other examples to mind, but I've seen parts for other
ensembles (e.g. Wind band, Symphony orchestra) supplied in Treble as an
extra, presumably to aid those brought up in the brass band tradition.
Dave
>
>Nigel Horne wrote:
>
>> Richard Bush wrote:
>>
>> > Tenor trombone is pitched in Bb but reads untransposed, bass clef music.
>>
>> In a brass band the tenor trombone plays treble clef, transposed up a major
>> 9th.
>>
>> --
>> Nigel Horne. Arranger, Composer, Conductor, Typesetter.
>> Owner of the brass band group of the Internet. ICQ#20252325
>> n...@despammed.com http://www.bandsman.co.uk/music.htm
>
>-- Richard Bush
>Bassoon Reed Maker
>
--
Dafydd y garreg wen
Peter Mansfield
Actikid <acti...@netzero.net> wrote:
> > I realize the trombone is conventionally described as "non-transposing",
> but it sure feels like transposing when I read a tenor clef part on an
> Eb alto.
Even worse, American editors sem to dislike the alto clef and write alto parts in
concert treble. This is fine if you're playing a tenor trombone but tricky if you meet
it unexpectedly on your once-a-year outing on alto.
Happened to me once doing a Mozart C Minor Mass. I made it all the way through, by a great feat of
concentration, until the last glorious C major chord when I went onto auto pilot and went for the
top C in . . . 1st - right??? Wrrrrong, unfortunately. Flat 9th ringing all round St Albans Abbey! Oops.
Like Coleridge's wedding guest I departed sadder and wiser . . .
PeterM
--
mcnamara
treble clef as if they were Eb alto saxes. Of course I didn't find this out
until after I got a lot of dirty looks when my non-Moravian choir ran
through their books.
Actikid <acti...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:3BCD9E24...@netzero.net...
Peter Mansfield
> The Moravian Trombone Choir in Bethlehem PA has its altos read transposing
> treble clef as if they were Eb alto saxes. Of course I didn't find this out
> until after I got a lot of dirty looks when my non-Moravian choir ran
> through their books.
Well that's quite logical in its way. Now that there are some cheap altos on
the market I'm contemplating using then for young beginners and the choice of
reading system is one of the main questions. I'm tempted to start teaching
everything in transposing treble as making it easier to switch instruments and on the grounds
that if trombonists are good enought to progress beyond the first couple of years
they'll be able to pick up conert pitch reading when they need it.
Views??
--
Nigel Horne
> Nigel,
>
> Isn't this a practice in only British brass bands?
No, all brass bands, including SA bands, read treble clef for the tenor
trombones.
-Nigel
Harry Wootan
I just ran across your question and didn't see a clear answer for you.
A regular old Conn tenor trombone can play in *any* key. The "key" is
not the question. The question you're looking for is whether it's a Bb
instrument or a C instrument.
The answer --- it's a Bb instrument. That's simply because the
fundamental [lowest] concert pitch sounded [in 1st position] is a Bb.
In American bands we typically learn to play a trombone by reading a
"Bb" and playing that fundamental pitch --- a Bb. So, the trombone is
called a non-transposing instrument. You see a Bb; you play a concert
Bb.
An Eb alto trombone is an Eb instrument. [It's not just a coincidence
that it's called an Eb trombone!] It's fundamental concert pitch is an
Eb.
.... etc.
A regular old Conn trumpet or cornet can also play in any key. And,
believe it or not, it's also a Bb instrument. That's because the
fundamental concert pitch sounded [open; with valves up] is a Bb.
But trumpet players learn to play by reading a written "C" and playing
their fundamental pitch, which is a concert Bb. So, some people call a
trumpet a transposing instrument. You look at a written "C"; but you
end up sounding a concert "Bb".
-- Harry
Jack Wright <wvbari...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3BCD5D06...@earthlink.net>...