Who was at the Dupont Pavilion?
r...@majure.com
'Lincoln' is my favorite TMBG album, and I would like to open up a discussion of the album in general... any interpretations of songs, references found anywhere, etc... anything you have to say about anything related to the album is welcome, and would be greatly appreciated.
You can post a followup or send me an email... Actually I'd love you forever if you did both. Thanx.
--Guy Hoosdum (GHoo...@aol.com)
Visit Guy Hoosdum's Monkey House at
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"I don't want the world; I just want your half" TMBG - Ana Ng
Wes
a single song or album by Them and call it my one favorite... I do think
it is the album with the best lyrics though. Way too many quotable lines to
count. As for the songs.... the emotionally charged You'll Miss Me is a
great song to listen to when you've just broken up with (or been dumped) by
someone....I've Got a Match is is wonderfully ironic and another good
relationship song, but certainly a more bitter one :-).......Piece of Dirt
is a nice melancholy song also about the power of love and the sadness it
can bring......actually, now that I think about it, a lot of the songs on
the album have something to do with love or relationships (Ana Ng, They'll
Need a Crane and Santa's Beard also) I guess the John's were going through
girl trouble at the time, which luckily resulted in inspiration for great
songs.
Funny little revelation. What does everyone else have to say about it?
-W.
"If it wasn't for disappointment, I wouldn't have any appointment"
John
creative. I really don't think that our Mr. Linnell was really ever pushed
in to a grave by his dance instructor's ghost while doing an interpretive
dance. Who knows...hey, when did They get married anyway?
An interesting break up song that is *much* more listenable that You'll Miss
Me, at least to me, is "I Just Found Out What Everybody Knows," and "Don't I
Have The Right?" by the uncannily eery Mono Puff.
Sincerely,
The John You Don't Listen To On Your CD Player
Wes wrote in message <6tjmr0$sek$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Will Beckley
Will
Jim Joyce
haven't been able to figure it out myself, but the DuPont Pavilion is
the main gymnasium at Villanova University.
BLNKRBOY
of them:
http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/ny64fair/map-docs/
dupont.htm
My guess is the picture of the musical review on this page could also be part
of the upcoming TMBG broadway revival extravaganza, ' Who are the DuPont's and
Why Do THEY have 27 Pavilions?'
An excerpt:
"Tell me Jefe, Would you say I have a plethora of pavilions?" >> Raucous
laughter<< , then John erupts into the showstopping number, ' Pavilion to One'
. Lights out - End of Act 4 (epilogue).
r...@majure.com
> haven't been able to figure it out myself, but the DuPont Pavilion is
> the main gymnasium at Villanova University.
Actually the DuPont Pavilion reference in the song is to the DuPont Pavilion which was set up during the 1964 World's Fair in New York, and like I said there were a few other 64 fair references in the song and the album. For example, the 64 fair was where the 'It's a Small World' Disney display was introduced, drawing the 'Eighty dolls yelling "Small girl after all"' reference. It has also been said that Ana Ng was at the 64 fair, as the "World's Smallest Woman". Does anyone know if that was true? Also, I
have discovered that Disney introduced their robotic Abe Lincoln model at the 64 fair as well. Can this just be a string of coincidences, or did TMBG engineer it this way?
--Guy Hoosdum (GHoo...@aol.com)
Visit Guy Hoosdum's Monkey House at
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Check back often for new and weekly updates!
"I don't want the world; I just want your half." TMBG - Ana Ng
Christopher M. Stangl
> www.tmbg.org has some great interpretations.
I beg to differ. www.tmbg.org is obviously indispensable, but if
I could slice one whole section out of it (or better yet, rewrite it
myself), it'd be the Interps. The original format (in which every interp
entry was accepted, and each page was simply a long list of people's
comments) was impossible to read, repetitive, and far too full of obvious,
irritating, and clearly, er, dumb remarks. The current format (in which a
"definitive" essay is written, based on all the interps collected from
before) is perhaps worse, as it is more difficult to alter as new
information comes to light, purports to be more accurate, and
attempts to mesh the very different ideas of dozens of interp-authors into
one coherent piece... And they're still mostly all clumsy and awful.
This is probably the fault of us fans, and not entirely the
creators of www.tmbg.org.
> The one they have for "Purple Toupee" is simply marvelous, it changes
> your outlook on the song forever.
On the contrary, the "Purple Toupee" section is closer to an
"Annotated TMBG" entry than a good interp. And I DO think we need an
Annotated TMBG page. But we need to understand that it's a very very
different beast than an interp page.
-Chris Stangl
Jim Joyce
>
> > I'm not really sure what this has to do with anything in Ana Ng, I
> > haven't been able to figure it out myself, but the DuPont Pavilion is
> > the main gymnasium at Villanova University.
>
> Actually the DuPont Pavilion reference in the song is to the DuPont Pavilion which was set up during the 1964 World's Fair in New York, and like I said there were a few other 64 fair references in the song and the album. For example, the 64 fair was where the 'It's a Small World' Disney display was introduced, drawing the 'Eighty dolls yelling "Small girl after all"' reference. It has also been said that Ana Ng was at the 64 fair, as the "World's Smallest Woman". Does anyone know if that was true? Also, I
> have discovered that Disney introduced their robotic Abe Lincoln model at the 64 fair as well. Can this just be a string of coincidences, or did TMBG engineer it this way?
Oops! I thought there was only the one DuPont Pavilion. Sorry! Hmm.
Coincidence? I THINK NOT! Ana Ng is a pretty dense song when you get
into interpreting it. It's fascinating the way it's woven together and
it shows Their flair for lyrics. When They did Ana Ng at a show I saw a
few years ago, they replaced the "I don't want the world etc." part by
singing "It's a small girl after all" to the tune of "It's a Small World
After All." A nice touch, and it fit perfectly in the song.
r...@majure.com
|> Coincidence? I THINK NOT! Ana Ng is a pretty dense song when you get
|> into interpreting it. It's fascinating the way it's woven together and
|> it shows Their flair for lyrics. When They did Ana Ng at a show I saw a
|> few years ago, they replaced the "I don't want the world etc." part by
|> singing "It's a small girl after all" to the tune of "It's a Small World
|> After All." A nice touch, and it fit perfectly in the song.
|>
|> Jim
|> sea...@pond.com
I think you're right... for some reason 'Lincoln' always struck me as being the
best TMBG album (lyrically anyway). Ana Ng was the song that got me hooked on
TMBG in the first place. And look at me now! I've decided to set up my TMBG page
on the web as a tribute to 'Lincoln' completely, hopefully making it the most
comprehensive source of information, interpretations, etc.. from 'Lincoln'. If
anyone has anything to contribute (links to info, interpretations, comments, and
even reworded songs, ANYTHING) send me an email to GHoo...@aol.com with the
details... I'll give you credit on my page any way you want me to... Any help
would be appreciated, I'm obsessed with Lincoln and I would like to do this the
right way. Thanks!
Francesca Lynn Parker
>
>Actually the DuPont Pavilion reference in the song is to the DuPont Pavilion which was set up during the 1964 World's Fair in New York, and like I said there were a few other 64 fair references in the song and the album. For example, the 64 fair was wher
e the 'It's a Small World' Disney display was introduced, drawing the 'Eighty dolls yelling "Small girl after all"' reference. It has also been said that Ana Ng was at the 64 fair, as the "World's Smallest Woman". Does anyone know if that was true? Also,
and it's also where They filmed the video for Ana Ng. there's some info
on this in Myke's Early Years FAQ, if that's still kicking around anywhere
(tmbg.org, maybe?)
franny
--
ujytmjytmjutkiy
r...@majure.com
this discussion thread. Like I said, I'm going to dedicate the TMBG section of
my web page specifically to Lincoln, and what I need is a good set of opinions
and interps of Lincoln songs... this is the first original interp of Ana Ng I've
seen in a long time... It's perfect for my page. I implore anyone else reading
this to not be afraid to state any opinion or interp, no matter how odd it might
seem... you know TMBG, the odd ones are usually right. I'll email anyone with an
interesting take on it asking permission to include it on my webpage... I just
want to say, I love this stuff. Thanks to everyone who has responded on this
thread, and keep them coming!
--Guy Hoosdum (GHoo...@aol.com)
Visit Guy Hoosdum's Monkey House at
http://members.aol.com/GHoosdum/main.htm
Check back often for new and weekly updates!
"I don't want the world; I just want your half." TMBG - Ana Ng
In article <19980918014243...@ng133.aol.com>, em...@aol.com (Emble) writes:
|> I have some additions of my own, however:
|>
|> I think this song is a sequel to Everything Right is Wrong again, and a prequel
|> to Birdhouse, in that they're all about infinite stories - "and now this song
|> is over now" (but it isn't) - "her voice 1) is a backwards record, 2) it's like
|> a whirlpool and 3) it never ends" and of course the night-light's endless
|> filibuster sold to his audience with the never-revealed secret he supposedly
|> has.
|>
|> This song hinges on a gramatical trick mechanism:
<mongolloid snip>
|> This song is a lot more forgiving than my interp is - there's that bit where
|> John's gallantly resigned to the whole world being so topsy-turvy that you
|> can't blame Ana anyway: It's not just Ana's voice (saying everything in his
|> world is upside down (Everything right is wrong again, sings (endlessly) the
|> army of Lucille Ball updates)) which is like a backwards record: "EVERYTHING
|> sticks like a broken record and the truth is we don't know anything."
|>
|> I've been there, man. Doesn't matter if the record is broken, you still want
|> a chance to hear it play again. Sigh . . .
|>
|> Love and politics. A cancerous mix . . .
|>
|> And you wonder why they're screaming in the video?
|>
|> Emble
Christopher M. Stangl
> Well, Lincoln has always been one of my favs, though I could never pinpoint
> a single song or album by Them and call it my one favorite.
"Birdhouse In Your Soul" and "Apollo 18" are the correct answers.
> Way too many quotable lines to count.
The tricky bit is finding an appropriate context in which to quote them.
> the emotionally charged You'll Miss Me is a great song to listen to when
> you've just broken up with (or been dumped) by someone.
Or, er, more appropriately, KILLED by someone.
> I've Got a Match is is wonderfully ironic and another good relationship
> song, but certainly a more bitter one
I don't know about "ironic". Our narrator is being pretty blunt
and straightforward. The song's "charge" is rising out of his REFUSAL to
resort to irony or beat around the bush.
And "I've Got a Match" more bitter than "You'll Miss Me"?!
> actually, now that I think about it, a lot of the songs on the album
> have something to do with love or relationships. I guess the John's
> were going through girl trouble at the time, which luckily resulted in
> inspiration for great songs.
You're treading dangerous territory there. Do not confuse
text-narrator and author. Soul Coughing's M. Doughty may openly admit
"Every song is an open letter to an ex-girlfriend", but TMBG does NOT, and
regularly insists (for example, Flans' recent Pitchfork interview;
Linnell's explanation of "Why Must I Be Sad?" from the newsletter) that
they are most frequently writing from CHARACTER perspectives. The distinct
possibility remains that Flan & Lino were having NO girl troubles.
> Funny little revelation. What does everyone else have to say about it?
Fine (though if that was a revelation, it was purely a personal
one...), except that you didn't take it far enough: "girl trouble" is what
a vast, vast portion of TMBG's work is about (along with death, coffee,
birds and telephones), and those themes are certainly not confined only to
"Lincoln"!
-Chris Stangl
Emble
After some abortive research on the 1964 World's fair (the library closes too
early, damnit! And those microfilm machines are too testy! And I have to WORK
for a living! And sooner or later everybody has to die! God it's so wrong) I
must correct an earlier contributor: Nylon was introduced by DuPont in the
*1939* world's fair, not the sixty-four. Hey, I didn't know until I read the
"25 years after Nylon" DuPont editrisement (I coined a new one! I coined a new
monster word! Only I guess 'infotainment' is so much scarier than
'editrisement' as to make it irrelevant - ah, well).
According to another DuPont circularticle, one answer to the question "Who was
at the DuPont Pavillion" is: OLEG CASSINI!!!!
"An integral part of the show are fashions being created by four leading
American designers making full use of DuPont fibers. The prophetic quartet --
predicting fall [sic] and winter [sic] fashions for 1964 and spring and summer
fashions [sic] [sic] for 1965 -- are Donald Brooks of Townley, Oleg Cassini,
Ceil Chaplan and David Kidd of Arthur Jablow. The fashion sequence, called
"Four Seasons," will be created in five DuPont fibers: nylon, "Orion" acrylic,
"Dacron" polyester, "Lycra" spandex and "Antron" nylon." [that last could be
"autron" or "astron" my photocopy's unclear]
Ahem.
OF COURSE, the big yield of my library trip was the chance to think over the
debut of a Disney-animatronic Abraham Lincoln (focus of the "Illinois
Pavilion") at the fair. Disney does make an appearance in Ana Ng in the form
of the "it's a small world" display which (someone here said) also got its
start at the fair.
But the real tip-off is the Brian Dewan album art CONSISTING OF A DISPLAY OF
TWO CIVIL WAR GENERALS, DISPLAYED ON SIXTIES FURNITURE LEGS, PLUGGED IN BY AN
ELECTRIC CORD!!!! PLUS all sorts of antique sillhouettes plugged in in the same
way. I mean, DUH!!!! We all should put our heads on our desks for missing
this one. Lincoln, MA is henceforth dethroned as the namesake of the Lincoln
album, whose album art is nothing but a commentary on the Lincoln animatronic
at the sixty-four world's fair. The name of the Johns' birthplace provides
nothing but a cover STORY for the album COVER's commentary on how people
exploit and misrepresent and sell their history. The display turns Lincoln
into a performing monkey, an advertisement for the technical skill of Disney
Corp and the endless progress of the fair. "The effect is so real that it's
chilling to watch as the creaking automata lurch into action and act out
historical deeds and make speeches, sign legislation, and TURN THEIR HEADS AND
BLINK THEIR EYES!!!!" barks Linnell in mocking praise a similar display.
Illinois makes a robot Lincoln to sell illinois and Disney and whatever but
it's all still on sixties table legs. What's worst of all, the fair makes
Lincoln SPEAK and there are General Hospital and his domestic partner with a
bunch of microphones set before them. This is the Johns saying, "Hey, if
America can do it we can too! And on the back cover let's throw in all kinds
of other historical characters to speak for us!"
What we need now is the text spoken by the Lincoln robot at the fair. "A house
divided against itself cannot stand" would be nice but even if it's that we'd
need to know how the fair was USING it to manipulate and bepandar their
audience.
The most chilling thing about that sculpture is the drawers visible at the top
of those white governmental houses . . . What's being stored in them? By
whom?
Whatever.
Emble
Alpaca2500
<<After some abortive research on the 1964 World's fair >>
<<I coined a new one!>>
And i was in an antique store the other day and i saw a "coin" from the 39
worlds fair
• •• • Dave Browne
•••• Alpac...@aol.com
• •• • "Cuidado Las Llamas"
••••••
••
• •
Christopher M. Stangl
> What we need now is the text spoken by the Lincoln robot at the fair.
I wish I knew. What I CAN provide is the following: the script
for "Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln", the attraction at Disneyland which
houses and showcases the pride of '64:
(NOTE: this is the script for the Animatronic portion of the show. The
robo-Lincoln speech is first preceded by a slide-show + narration, then a
multi-media presentation [which also has Honest Abe talking])
---------------------
LINCOLN:
The world has never had a good definition of the word 'liberty',
and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all
declare for liberty; but in using the same word, we do not all mean the
same thing.
What constitutes the bulwark of our liberty and independence? It
is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts. These are not
our reliance against tyranny. Our reliance is in the love of liberty
which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation
of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all
lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of
despotism around your own doors.
At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what
means shall we fortify against is? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic
military giant to step the ocean and crush us in a blow? Never! All the
armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined could not by force take a
drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a
thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be
expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up from amonsgst
us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves
must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live
through all times, or die by suicide.
Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations
against us, nor frightened from it by the menaces of destruction to the
Government nor dungeons to ourselves. Let us have faith that right
makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as
we understand it.
-------
-Chris Stangl, Rev. Stegosaurus
GHoosdum
What does everyone think would be a good format for the interpretations of the
songs for my new webpage?
--Guy Hoosdum (GHoo...@aol.com)
Visit Guy Hoosdum's Monkey House at
http://members.aol.com/GHoosdum/main.htm
Check back often for new and weekly updates!
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." TMBG - Ana Ng
Emble
>What does everyone think would be a good format for the interpretations of
>the
>songs for my new webpage?
>
Well, you could divide them into an EMBLE THINKS THIS: section and an EMBLE
LAUGHS AT THE PITIFUL FOOLS WHO THINK THIS: section. The EMBLE THINKS THIS:
section could be organized by the levels of wit, beauty, and
economy-of-expression in my many contributions - examples of notable wit could
go under the WIT section - beautifully elegant arguments would go under the
BEAUTY section - examples of both could go in the WIT AND BEAUTY section, and
then for economy of expression. . . um. Then a PRAISE FOR EMBLE! page, and
then a page telling everyone to vote EMBLE for the New York Times' first-ever
100 Neediest Cases Online Poll!
Um.
Christopher M. Stangl
> Well, you could divide them into an EMBLE THINKS THIS: section
Not a bad idea, actually. Somebody besides DejaNews should be
archiving and organizing Emble's interps. And mine for that matter... at
least I ASSUME you're interested in archiving other people's work.
> and an EMBLE LAUGHS AT THE PITIFUL FOOLS WHO THINK THIS: section.
This section, I assume, would also be known as the "CHRIS STANGL
SAYS:" section.
-Chris Stangl
Christopher M. Stangl
> What does everyone think would be a good format for the interpretations of the
> songs for my new webpage?
I think the ONLY way to go for a reasonable, rational person
(ie. not like www.tmbg.org), is to allow each interp-artist space for
their entire essays. It's ridiculous (www.tmbg.org) to attempt to compile
several authors' takes on a single song (www.tmbg.org) into one original
coherent piece, as some sites have attempted and failed to do (www.tmbg.org).
So I'd organize my interp page in the usual way (grouping pieces
by appropriate album, and then in track-listing order), and under each
song title, separating entire essays by individual contributors. Again:
at least I ASSUME you want to archive other people's work.
What I think is just as important as another interp page, is an
Annotated TMBG page. Other performers (REM, Tori Amos) have some quite
lovely annotation pages, and it'd be not just an invaluable resource for
TMBG fans, but a good public-relations move (REM is putting us to shame,
kids).
-Rev. Chris Stangl
Michael Ackerson
derf
----------
In article <19980929215634...@ng05.aol.com>, md...@aol.com
(MDJSK) wrote:
>Someone who kept the bench warm....which begs the question....what bench?
hmmm..... and of course the question... who is this person who had kept the
bench warm?
maybe it was a bench by the curb of the empty parking lot in the store where
they let him play the organ...... nah, wrong album
_______________________________________________
derf
We can be happy underground - Ben Folds Five, "Underground"
Don't want to hear another love song/But that's all I seem to write about -
Ridel High,"Hello"
I've created Lutherans - Lisa Simpson
MDJSK
>Who was at the Dupont Pavilion any way?
Someone who kept the bench warm....which begs the question....what bench?
-Jake
http://www.angelfire.com/va/loserboi
"we're just trying to claw our way to the middle."
-John Flansburgh on "Modern Rock Live"
NoraChica
>Who was at the Dupont Pavilion any way?
It was a DuPont pavilion ... the company that basically invented plastics
amoung other things.... artilliary suppliers... inventors.
I guess employees and scientists would be there.....
Wait, was that a rhetorical question?
Nora... who grew up in DuPont country where it all started.. and knows way too
much about the founders..
"Its really not that you can't see the forest for the trees, you've never been
out in the woods alone...."
Erica
<Mack...@PowerLink.net> wrote:
> Who was at the Dupont Pavilion any way?
Yeah, and why was the bench still warm?
Who had been there?
Erica
--
And so we grace another table
And raise our glasses one more time
There's a face at the window
And I ain't never, never sayin' good bye...
Brian May