Does Jim Morrison have a son ?
itza...@my-deja.com
Does Jim Morrison have a son by the name of Cliff Morrison ?
Any help will be appreciated .
thanx,
John
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
PButler111
>From: itza...@my-deja.com
>Date: 1/4/2001 11:41 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <933mqh$pt2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>Hi folks,
>
> Does Jim Morrison have a son by the name of Cliff Morrison ?
>Any help will be appreciated .
>
>thanx,
> John
No, he doesn't.
Tarlesio
Any help will be appreciated .
>>
yes he does. Although Cliff was born 2 years before Jim died he knever knew his
son. Jim told cliff's mother he did not want to raise a child he was not
ready, so she did not persue the issue.
The Morrisons treat Cliff like a relative, I myself have taken him down to see
them. That's all there really is to say on the issue.
tarlesio
darkbl...@my-deja.com
pbutl...@aol.com (PButler111) wrote:
>
> No, he doesn't.
>
If you say so.
- Dark Blackness
darkbl...@my-deja.com
tarl...@aol.com (Tarlesio) wrote:
> << Does Jim Morrison have a son by the name of Cliff Morrison ?
> Any help will be appreciated .
> >>
>
> yes he does
Here we go again. The cycle repeats itself.
- Dark Blackness
Somebody
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you have no proof, I suggest
you not speak up.
PButler111
This is quite an amazing lie. I wrote an article on Cliff MARSDEN several
years ago. The Morrisons cooperated with the writing of the article because
they were anxious to correct the lies that Marsden and his "agent," Anne
Morrison's erstwhile husband, Alan Graham, were spreading about Marsden being
related to them. They completely denounce the guy and his story. Marsden, for
his part, refuses to take a blood test to prove paternity. Gee, I wonder why?
Adam Cox
I'm sure if he did have a son (and the possibility is high) the
mother would have wanted to shield her son/daughter and chose
not to publicly disclose the information.
itza...@my-deja.com
I went on a search this morning and stubbled across this webpage
with an interview with Cliff and I heard the cd called "Know Peaking"
from a friend of mine and I must say Cliff sounds quite like his dad
a'la L.A. Woman circa 1970 with a deep registered singing voice much
like his father's from that time period . And the music is quite
interesting . Now, I don't know if that has any barrier upon him being
Jim's real son but, after I heard the disc I was kinda shocked . I've
heard other Doors tribute bands but, they painfully mimick Morrison to
a "T", Cliff on the other hand sounds original . Go ahead and check out
this interesting webpage with an interview with Cliff.
http://www.wildchildpublishing.com/issue10/onlinewith.html
Thanx,
John
PButler111
>From: itza...@my-deja.com
>Date: 01/05/2001 2:25 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <935ajf$55f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>Well folks,
>
> I went on a search this morning and stubbled across this webpage
>with an interview with Cliff and I heard the cd called "Know Peaking"
>from a friend of mine and I must say Cliff sounds quite like his dad
>a'la L.A. Woman circa 1970 with a deep registered singing voice much
>like his father's from that time period . And the music is quite
>interesting . Now, I don't know if that has any barrier upon him being
>Jim's real son but, after I heard the disc I was kinda shocked . I've
>heard other Doors tribute bands but, they painfully mimick Morrison to
>a "T", Cliff on the other hand sounds original . Go ahead and check out
>this interesting webpage with an interview with Cliff.
Gee, Joe Russo of the Soft Parade sounds exactly like Jim. In fact, Ray
Manzarek sounded quite a lot like Jim on the "Live" album when he did a solo.
Do you think that Joe and Ray are Jim's sons, too? I mean, your ear test is so
scientifically sound I don't see how anyone could possibly doubt it.
Get a clue.
darkbl...@my-deja.com
Somebody <no...@none.net> wrote:
> Regardless of the truth, to blindly believe you would be pure
idiocy.
> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you have no
proof, I suggest
> you not speak up.
You bring up an excellent point. Proof.
I aint got any proof, does anybody else?
- Dark Blackness
Ueli Niggli
Seaghnaid
- Dark Blackness
>>
I knkow that is why I was brief...it comes every month or so...
sign...
pfeff/tarlesio
Seaghnaid
>>
oh butler here we go again! It is not a lie, as I have taken Cliff down there
many times...you might wanna call up andy and ask him, if he's still speakin to
you..
Pfeff
Seaghnaid
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you have no proof, I
suggest
you not speak up.
>>
obviously you can't read, my jproof is that the Morrisons treat him like
family, as I myself have seen. That's what I said before...
pfeff/tarleiso
Somebody
Now, in case you are not understanding me, I am not accusing you of lying. You could be perfectly right. You could also be wrong and believe you are right. You could also be lying. No one has any way of knowing. This is why evidence is required, and you have offered none. Be aware that I certainly hope you are correct. I hope Jim's DNA is out there flourishing and that Cliff is truly Jim's bastard child. Unfortunately I have no way of knowing if he is or isn't, without proof. The burden of proof is on you. We can prove that we don't know if Cliff is Jim's son. You have not yet proven that he is. Do you expect our standards of judgment to be so lax that you can type these claims in an internet newsgroup and we will simply take your assertions at face value? That would be utterly asinine, and an insult to our critical faculties. Do you honestly think that we should be so credulous? I would have been in the poor house long ago if I conducted my every day affairs in such an incompetent manner. We must withhold judgment until evidence is presented, and Cliff is proven to be, or not to be, the son of James Douglas Morrison, beyond a reasonable doubt. Surely you agree.
Respectfully,
Anonymous
Seaghnaid
Morrison, beyond a reasonable doubt. Surely you agree.
Respectfully,
Anonymous >>
I agree, however it is not my job to provide proof,that is Clif's job. Just
like we have asked Ms. Keneally and Ms. Butler to provide proof to which there
has been none,only their opinions.. This too is my expierence. That is all. If
you chose not to believe Cliff, one has to ask are you as skeptical about all
the other "hangers on" claiming to know Jim?
Just askin.
Pfeff/tarlseio
Somebody
itza...@my-deja.com
> Do you think that Joe and Ray are Jim's sons, too?
Patricia, that's ridiculous !! Did I even come close to asking that ?
I mean, your ear test is so
> scientifically sound I don't see how anyone could possibly doubt it.
>
Well, now that you mentioned that, my hearing is not bad, nor is it
great either ! I've been going to Rock 'n' roll concerts for a while
now. But, do you remember when Julian Lennon first appeared and
released an album ? and everyone (well, just about everyone) made a
reference a saying, "He sounds like his father !", that's what I'm
getting at !!! that is to say if Cliff is Jim's son ?
> Get a clue.
> Now, when somebody tells me to "Get A Clue", he or she usually has an
answer for me !? not a smart remark !
Patricia, I'm looking for intelligent discussion & answers, just like
you were back then before you wrote your book . Also, Patricia, you
have release a book and I'm interested in reading it when I get the
chance. Maybe, I won't find out the real answer !? Who knows ? besides,
The Doors were always a mysterious type band and that alone intrigues
me.
ttp://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
PButler111
>Message-id: <936m67$87f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>
>
>> Do you think that Joe and Ray are Jim's sons, too?
>
>Patricia, that's ridiculous !! Did I even come close to asking that ?
>
>
>I mean, your ear test is so
>> scientifically sound I don't see how anyone could possibly doubt it.
>>
>Well, now that you mentioned that, my hearing is not bad, nor is it
>great either ! I've been going to Rock 'n' roll concerts for a while
>now. But, do you remember when Julian Lennon first appeared and
>released an album ? and everyone (well, just about everyone) made a
>reference a saying, "He sounds like his father !", that's what I'm
>getting at !!! that is to say if Cliff is Jim's son ?
All kinds of people sound like all kinds of other people. That's absolutely no
basis for a claim of paternity (or maternity for that matter). That was the
point I was trying to make with Joe Russo and Ray Manzarek. Just because they
can sing like Jim doesn't mean they're related to Jim. Lots of people can sing
like Jim -- doesn't mean they're related. Marsden could sound like Margaret
Thatcher and it's not going to mean she's his mum.
PButler111
>Date: 1/5/2001 6:23 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010105192311...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
So, Pfeff, let me get this straight: You're claiming that you have visited
with Admiral and Mrs. Morrison many times, Cliff Marsden in tow. Is this
correct?
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010106002518...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
You've asked me to provide proof of what? You want me to provide proof that
Marsden isn't Morrison's son? Well, for one thing, you can't prove a negative.
It's Marsden's responsibility to prove he *is* Morrison's son, which he
refuses to do. If he is, as you claim, so incredibly chummy with Jim's parents
-- and OUTRAGEOUS lie! -- then there would be no problem whatsoever with
Marsden taking a DNA test. The very thought that the Morrisons would welcome
this imposter into their family without such proof is simply ludicrous. So
instead of asking me and Kennealy for proof -- when have you ever done that, by
the way, and in what possible way would you think it's our responsibility --
why don't you simply ask your close, personal friend Marsden to take a simple
blood test and prove us wrong?
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010105192012...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
But still you can't briefly explain why Marsden won't take a blood test.
Krauchi
abilities to create great music and write great poetry with him.
Cliff doesn't even come close to what his 'father' brought the world...
"Back to the drawing board, son!"
Seaghnaid
with Admiral and Mrs. Morrison many times, Cliff Marsden in tow. Is this
correct? >>
Im claiming I drove him up to the house walked to the front door, said hello to
the Morrisons, and left cliff to spend the day, then, picked him up at the end
of the day. The Morrisons live within 10 minutes of my own home.
pfeff
Seaghnaid
>>
that's smart. And as butler so gracefully put it(ha ha that's funny) " if your
his friend make him take a blood test" I can not make him to anything. That's
not a friend thats a mommy. I can barely keep track of him. And cautious is
smart. I appluad you. Again all I have to say on the subject.
pfeff/tarlesio
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010106113504...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
>
><< Yes, I am equally skeptical of all of them, as I think we all should be.
> >>
>
>
>that's smart. And as butler so gracefully put it(ha ha that's funny) " if
>your
>his friend make him take a blood test"
I can assure you that if I'd ever said that (I didn't) I would have spelled
"you're" correctly. Please watch what you put in quotation marks, Pfeff.
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010106113035...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
Right. Assuming this is true -- which I most certainly do not -- then you
weren't exactly on the level when you claimed you had seen the Morrisons
interacting with Marsden, or treating him as a grandson, or anything else
beyond "hello," were you? And this still doesn't explain why the Morrisons and
their attorney completely deny Marsden's claims and call him a liar and a
fraud, does it? Nor does it explain why Marsden doesn't take a DNA test,
something which the Morrisons -- not stupid people -- would absolutely require
before they even gave Marsden the time of day.
Seaghnaid
before they even gave Marsden the time of day. >>
right they invite him into their home for the day, no not an hour the DAY and
then treat him like shit, and yet when I picked him up 6 hours later, and
everyone was all smiles, were all playin...ha ha boy did they have me fooled.
Butler just let it go.
Im just stating what I saw you are the one making stories. And if you wanna go
finding speeling error in my posts then double check your own. They are not
without mistake. You will grasp at anything to try and have the upper hand and
face it you don't..Im leaving Southern Caifornia, and frankly im glad to leave
all this Doors bullshit behind.
pfeff
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010106122412...@ng-mh1.aol.com>
Pfeff, you're out of control. You forgot to mention that you WORK for Marsden
-- he pays you -- so your motivation is not exactly pure. And it doesn't take
a brain trust to figure out that your story doesn't make a bit of sense. The
Morrisons and their attorney certainly wouldn't have cooperated with an article
denouncing Marsden and Graham if they believed for a moment that he was in any
way related to them. Neither would they give any credence to Marsden's claims
without some sort of scientific proof -- namely a simple DNA test -- if not
only for legal reasons (you honestly think they're going to concede, WITHOUT
PROOF, that Jim had a legal heir -- meaning that his entire estate would have
to go to Marsden) then certainly for emotional reasons; they're not going to
welcome someone into their home only to later find out he's a fraud. Get real.
If Marsden were on the level he would take a simple blood test and prove it.
And there's simply no way the Morrisons would give any credence to his story
without such proof.
Seaghnaid
mother? I'm just wondering >>
oh god no! Im just his really good friend and I worked for Lizard Sun for quite
awhile as their publicist.
pfeff
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010106212309...@ng-mh1.aol.com>
Oh? Does that mean you worked for/with Alan Graham? How long exactly did he
spend in jail over that little video caper he pulled trying to exploit his
tenuous connection to Morrison? Or did you approve of the fact that he used to
beat Jim's sister during the time they were married? Nice lot of folks you
hang out with, Pfeff: a wife-beater felon and a bastard wanna-be.
Seaghnaid
Ok Butler you vindictive bitch, dragging Anne's life into this is just not
right. No I have never met Alan Graham, Cliff hasn't worked with him in many
years(about the same time Wildchild stopped working with Alan) We do however
constantly receive death threats ala phone and mail from him.
You know nothing about my life or if I myself have been abused as an adult or
child, yet you trying a final trump card have to bring in something that you
think you know about or that you think I approve of... You have only made
yourself look cold and vindictive....Next time check or facts before you attack
me for working for someone I have never even met...Now I know what your
research is like! Heh . Bad as your book.
Pfeff
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010106215815...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
How is my research bad when I asked you if you worked with Graham? I didn't
state you did, I asked if you did -- what is that, if not the very definition
of "research"? And what does whether or not you were or weren't abused as a
child or adult have to do with anything, other than you trying a desperate
gambit to win sympathy -- your own little "trump card" as it were? And, once
again, if I ask you whether or not you worked for Graham, how is that not
"checking out facts"? Before you scream your head off about people not knowing
what they're talking about, maybe you could simply calm down and answer the
fucking questions that are put to you instead of throwing up a smoke screen to
divert people's attention from the fact that the things you're doing are less
than savory.
Carolyn
>
> How is my research bad when I asked you if you worked with Graham? I
didn't
> state you did, I asked if you did -- what is that, if not the very
definition
> of "research"? And what does whether or not you were or weren't
abused as a
> child or adult have to do with anything, other than you trying a
desperate
> gambit to win sympathy -- your own little "trump card" as it were?
And, once
> again, if I ask you whether or not you worked for Graham, how is that
not
> "checking out facts"? Before you scream your head off about people
not knowing
> what they're talking about, maybe you could simply calm down and
answer the
> fucking questions that are put to you instead of throwing up a smoke
screen to
> divert people's attention from the fact that the things you're doing
are less
> than savory.
>
> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
Ok, I don't understand the reasoning about this? Is Pfeff "guilty by
association" of being less than savory? Is this a "non causa pro causa"
fallacy or a "post hoc ergo proctor hoc" fallacy? Will someone please
elucidate? BTW...the post before Pfeff's diatribe was a bit
provocative, Patricia. (I think this would be called "leading the
witness" or perhaps "baiting" would be a better term?)
Carolyn
itza...@my-deja.com
> O.K., this is something that turning into bad situation, if you guys
want to fight, I can't stop you . I was hoping this was going to be
a "friendly" discussion (obviously not). Oh well,I think I have enough
info on Cliff now . And I know what the bottom line is !!!?? it's
abbreviated, DNA test = Morrison's son or not Morrison's son... period.
Thank you Patricia for your help !
Good luck with your book and I look forward to reading it some day .
Thanx,
John
darkbl...@my-deja.com
Are we playing bridge, poker, gin rummy, or go fish?
- Dark Blackness
PButler111
>association" of being less than savory? Is this a "non causa pro causa"
>fallacy or a "post hoc ergo proctor hoc" fallacy? Will someone please
>elucidate? BTW...the post before Pfeff's diatribe was a bit
>provocative, Patricia. (I think this would be called "leading the
>witness" or perhaps "baiting" would be a better term?)
>
>Carolyn
Let's see . . . she works for and promotes an obvious fake; she tells stories
that I know aren't true in order to further that end . . . Unsavory by
association? You betcha.
As for my previous post regarding Alan Graham, I don't see how it's either
"leading" or "baiting" someone (she's not a "witness" that I know of) to ask
someone if they work with someone else.
And I'm sure the Latin impresses a lot of people, Carolyn, but I don't happen
to be one of them. Speak English to English speaking people if you want to be
understood. Save the Latin for your lawyer or your priest.
Carolyn
I believe it's poke-her;-)with jokers wild....
--
Nudge-wink~say no more!
Seaghnaid
what they're talking about, maybe you could simply calm down and answer the
fucking questions that are put to you instead of throwing up a smoke screen to
divert people's attention from the fact that the things you're doing are less
>>
I did in the first sentence. I have never met him,
as I stated...you idiot
pfeff
Seaghnaid
ha ha ha....yep you got it.
pfeff
Seaghnaid
that I know aren't true in order to further that end . . . Unsavory by >>
prove it...
pfeff
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010107005213...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
Then you really didn't need the rest of the rant, did you? Just like there was
absolutely no call for you to add the "you idiot" to the end of this post. You
certainly do a lot of lecturing about how people should treat *you* on this
newsgroup, Pfeff, but apparently you don't think those same rules should apply
to you.
PButler111
>From: seag...@aol.com (Seaghnaid)
>Date: 1/6/2001 11:52 PM Central Standard Time
You first, dear.
Carolyn
> Let's see . . . she works for and promotes an obvious fake; she tells
stories
> that I know aren't true in order to further that end . . . Unsavory
by
> association? You betcha.
Well, according to your own statements, she might be lying about
everything and there may not even be any associations at all.
>
> As for my previous post regarding Alan Graham, I don't see how it's
either
> "leading" or "baiting" someone (she's not a "witness" that I know of)
to ask
> someone if they work with someone else.
I think you knew what response she would give you and you pushed her
buttons on purpose.
>
> And I'm sure the Latin impresses a lot of people, Carolyn, but I
don't happen
> to be one of them. Speak English to English speaking people if you
want to be
> understood. Save the Latin for your lawyer or your priest.
>
> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
Ok, I'll speak English, but I was citing them just for the purpose of
figuring out how the perceptions of the arguement might be catagorized
when faulty reasoning is used.
"Like all inductive arguments, causal arguments should be evaluated for
their relative strength. How well is the causal inference justified?
Has all available and relevant information been taken into account?
Does the suggested account explain more than it leaves unanswered?
It should be remembered that causal arguments-- based as they are upon
observation-- are also subject to the qualification of leading only
to “probable” (rather than certain) conclusions. "
Guess I'll go and say a couple of Novenas now. BTW, it's a shame, but
Latin isn't really used in the Catholic Church these days as a norm.(
Vatican II, dontcha know)
Carolyn
--
Nudge-wink~say no more!
Seaghnaid
I asked you to prove im lyiing...I hve already stated the truth, now if you are
so sure you can, prove it, or shut up.
pfeff
Seaghnaid
Then you really didn't need the rest of the rant, did you? >>
you just bait people till they break. Ya know you are right there was no need
of the rant. Im sorry you can't read, when I state simple fact, and Im sorry
that you don't understand plain english.
pfeff
Valentine Michael Smith
"Krauchi" <kra...@pi.be> wrote in message
news:937f03$gdl$1...@news.planetinternet.be...
Hey Guys!
I missed something along the way.
Who is Cliff's mother?
VMS
>
>
Ian
--
Get paid to read E-mails - http://www.stitch41.freeserve.co.uk/e4.htm
Seaghnaid <seag...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010107013726...@ng-mh1.aol.com...
Perhaps you should prove that you are correct?
You are making all the claims here and I think PB is right. If this Cliff IS
Jims son, then why won't he take a DNA test to prove it.
The burden of proof is on Him and his supporters, not the rest of the
world!!
Ian
PButler111
>Hey Guys!
>I missed something along the way.
>Who is Cliff's mother?
>VMS
Apparently it's Pfeff.
;-)
GENN...@webtv.net
without a DNA test. Their must be allot of people claming to be their
grandson and the process of elimitation has to be in order to get at
the truth. And why should she just let it go when everyone else keeps
the thread going! Come on posters, take a good look at yourselves for
once and pick on each other. You can blame PB for some of the things,
but not all the things. I feel this topic has run it's course and should
be laid to rest, basically due to the fact theirs no solid answer. Cliff
will not take the test, and that means to me that he's full of shit.
That should be understood by all.
Gen
..................................................................
Butler just let it go.
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010107013922...@ng-mh1.aol.com>
And in what way have I demonstrated that I "can't read" or that I "don't
understand plain English" (capitalized in most of the world)? And at what
point did you "state simply fact" without surrounding it with a lot of
name-calling and useless information (i.e., hinting at some sort of mysterious
abuse that, I guess, is supposed to explain everything you do)? I read just
fine, Pfeff. I think, in this case, it's my ability to read you too well and
not the reverse that's causing you discomfort.
PButler111
>Date: 1/6/2001 11:59 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <9390kb$u4j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>
>> Let's see . . . she works for and promotes an obvious fake; she tells
>stories
>> that I know aren't true in order to further that end . . . Unsavory
>by
>> association? You betcha.
>
>Well, according to your own statements, she might be lying about
>everything and there may not even be any associations at all.
>
>>
No, I have no doubt she's hanging onto the likes of Cliff Marsden. He's just
her type. Hard to believe she could've actually moved downward after clinging
to Kennealy so long, but Pfeff's certainly managed it.
>> As for my previous post regarding Alan Graham, I don't see how it's
>either
>> "leading" or "baiting" someone (she's not a "witness" that I know of)
>to ask
>> someone if they work with someone else.
>
>I think you knew what response she would give you and you pushed her
>buttons on purpose.
>>
Well, I'm sure it wasn't the first time you were wrong, and equally sure it
won't be the last.
>> And I'm sure the Latin impresses a lot of people, Carolyn, but I
>don't happen
>> to be one of them. Speak English to English speaking people if you
>want to be
>> understood. Save the Latin for your lawyer or your priest.
>>
>> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
>
>Ok, I'll speak English, but I was citing them just for the purpose of
>figuring out how the perceptions of the arguement might be catagorized
>when faulty reasoning is used.
>
>"Like all inductive arguments, causal arguments should be evaluated for
>their relative strength. How well is the causal inference justified?
>Has all available and relevant information been taken into account?
>Does the suggested account explain more than it leaves unanswered?
>It should be remembered that causal arguments-- based as they are upon
>observation-- are also subject to the qualification of leading only
>to “probable” (rather than certain) conclusions. "
Did you really quote this from some sort of textbook? Incredibly discouraging
if you did, as the word "inference" is used completely incorrectly.
>Guess I'll go and say a couple of Novenas now. BTW, it's a shame, but
>Latin isn't really used in the Catholic Church these days as a norm.(
>Vatican II, dontcha know)
>
>Carolyn
I think it's a shame Latin isn't used more frequently for all kinds of
purposes. But I'm not Catholic, so I'm afraid "Vatican II -- The Death of
Latin" is rather lost on me.
PButler111
>Date: 1/7/2001 4:34 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <939gkt$f6p$1...@lure.pipex.net>
Quite true.
Seaghnaid
Jims son, then why won't he take a DNA test to prove it. >>
and as I stated that is for him to do, not me. But what Butler is accusing me
of is consorting with a known abuser , and in actuality I have never met said
person.
pfeff
PButler111
>Date: 1/7/2001 11:46 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010107124613...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
Would you like to explain how *asking* you if you also worked with him is
*accusing* you of anything?
Seaghnaid
MET HIM!!!!(re-read ths till you get it.) I freely admit I have worked with
Cliff for a couple of years, and that he is a good friend. . That to me is
nothing to hide. And just so you know I knew Cliff before I knew PK well. SO
again another one of your accusations blown out of the water.
Pfeff
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010107132228...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
What in the hell are you talking about?? Let's review the previous posts,
shall we:
You said:
Subject: Re: Does Jim Morrison have a son ?
From: pbutl...@aol.com (PButler111)
Date: 1/7/2001 12:10 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <20010107131040...@ng-cd1.aol.com>
>Subject: Re: Does Jim Morrison have a son ?
>From: seag...@aol.com (Seaghnaid)
>Date: 1/7/2001 11:46 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010107124613...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
>
><< If this Cliff IS
>Jims son, then why won't he take a DNA test to prove it. >>
>
>
>and as I stated that is for him to do, not me. But what Butler is accusing me
>of is consorting with a known abuser , and in actuality I have never met said
>person.
>pfeff
Then I replied:
>Would you like to explain how *asking* you if you also worked with him >is
*accusing* you of anything?
So where am I saying that you are in any way associated with Alan Graham? At
what point did I write anything that even remotely sounded like I didn't "get
it" when you hysterically screamed the first time that you didn't know him?
And what, precisely are the "accusations blown out of the water" related to
Cliff Marsden and Patricia Kennealy?
Jesus god, Pfeff, you are totally over the edge. Do you even know what you've
gotten yourself all worked up over? Try -- TRY -- to react only to what is
actually being said to you and not to what those numerous voices in your head
seem to be whispering.
Seaghnaid
you've
gotten yourself all worked up over? Try -- TRY -- to react only to what is
actually being said to you and not to what those numerous voices in your head
seem to be whispering.>>
you crack me up, you throw out all kinds of assumptions and accusations and
then turn them on the person who reacts. You have been doing it for years, I
should have learned by now. But I have some sense of morals compared to you. I
was foolish to react, true, by now I should know the game you play.
pfeff
Carolyn
> No, I have no doubt she's hanging onto the likes of Cliff Marsden.
He's just
> her type. Hard to believe she could've actually moved downward after
clinging
> to Kennealy so long, but Pfeff's certainly managed it.
I don't know the guy, I can't make any judgements about him. Do you
actually know this person Cliff? The only sources cited about him have
been conflicting opinions presented in this group.
> >
> >"Like all inductive arguments, causal arguments should be evaluated
for
> >their relative strength. How well is the causal inference justified?
> >Has all available and relevant information been taken into account?
> >Does the suggested account explain more than it leaves unanswered?
> >It should be remembered that causal arguments-- based as they are
upon
> >observation-- are also subject to the qualification of leading only
> >to “probable” (rather than certain) conclusions. "
>
> Did you really quote this from some sort of textbook? Incredibly
discouraging
> if you did, as the word "inference" is used completely incorrectly.
Quoted material is from a Logic Professor in Missouri...the "Show me"
state. They take their Logic seriously in Missouri.
Ok, let's go back to the dictionary yet again.
Main Entry: in·fer·ence
Pronunciation: 'in-f(&-)r&n(t)s, -f&rn(t)s
Function: noun
Date: 1594
1 : the act or process of inferring: as
a : the act of passing from one proposition, statement, or judgment
considered as true to another whose truth is believed to follow from
that of the former
b : the act of passing from statistical sample data to generalizations
(as of the value of population parameters) usually with calculated
degrees ofcertainty
2 : something that is inferred; especially : a proposition arrived at by
inference
3 : the premises and conclusion of a process of inferring
I believe that the Professor of Logic that I quoted has indeed done
their homework, since the use of language in Logic is very important.
I'm assuming that English may have been your Major, but Logic was not.
Am I right?
> >Guess I'll go and say a couple of Novenas now. BTW, it's a shame, but
> >Latin isn't really used in the Catholic Church these days as a norm.(
> >Vatican II, dontcha know)
> >
> >Carolyn
>
> I think it's a shame Latin isn't used more frequently for all kinds of
> purposes. But I'm not Catholic, so I'm afraid "Vatican II -- The
Death of
> Latin" is rather lost on me.
>
> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
>
I think it's a shame too that Latin isn't used more frequently,but then
the Church Fathers decided to use the language of the people where the
Diocese is located. Speak English where English is spoken. I think you
_do_ have a grasp of it after all;-)
DN41144
years ago. The Morrisons cooperated with the writing of the article because
they were anxious to correct the lies that Marsden and his "agent," Anne
Morrison's erstwhile husband, Alan Graham, were spreading about Marsden being
related to them. They completely denounce the guy and his story.
Where can this article be found, Ms. Butler? I'd like to read it.
itza...@my-deja.com
PButler111
>Date: 1/7/2001 1:50 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010107145033...@ng-fj1.aol.com>
It was in the first or second edition of The Doors Collector's Magazine. I'll
see if I still have it on disk somewhere and post it here if I can find it.
PButler111
>Date: 1/7/2001 12:44 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010107134403...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
And you haven't yet clarified what accusations have been made against you in
regard to Alan Graham, even though you've been asked to do so several times
now. What is it you think you're being accused of, Pfeff? It's a simple
question -- kindly answer it.
PButler111
>Date: 1/7/2001 1:23 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <93afnm$v7n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>Snipping
>
>> No, I have no doubt she's hanging onto the likes of Cliff Marsden.
>He's just
>> her type. Hard to believe she could've actually moved downward after
>clinging
>> to Kennealy so long, but Pfeff's certainly managed it.
>
>I don't know the guy, I can't make any judgements about him. Do you
>actually know this person Cliff? The only sources cited about him have
>been conflicting opinions presented in this group.
My information comes from more solid and reliable sources. I generally (though
not always) bring information to this group, not derive information from it.
>> >"Like all inductive arguments, causal arguments should be evaluated
>for
>> >their relative strength. How well is the causal inference justified?
>> Did you really quote this from some sort of textbook? Incredibly
>discouraging
>> if you did, as the word "inference" is used completely incorrectly.
>
>Quoted material is from a Logic Professor in Missouri...the "Show me"
>state. They take their Logic seriously in Missouri.
>
>I believe that the Professor of Logic that I quoted has indeed done
>their homework, since the use of language in Logic is very important.
>I'm assuming that English may have been your Major, but Logic was not.
>Am I right?
It doesn't make any difference. I may imply something by my statements; how
you interpret those statements is your inferrence. The sentence should have
read, "How well is the casual implication justified?" "Imply" and "infer" are
probably two of the most misused words in the English language. Even the most
learned scholar often gets them confused.
>
>
>> >Guess I'll go and say a couple of Novenas now. BTW, it's a shame, but
>> >Latin isn't really used in the Catholic Church these days as a norm.(
>> >Vatican II, dontcha know)
>> >
>> >Carolyn
>>
>> I think it's a shame Latin isn't used more frequently for all kinds of
>> purposes. But I'm not Catholic, so I'm afraid "Vatican II -- The
>Death of
>> Latin" is rather lost on me.
>>
>> http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
>>
>
>I think it's a shame too that Latin isn't used more frequently,but then
>the Church Fathers decided to use the language of the people where the
>Diocese is located. Speak English where English is spoken. I think you
>_do_ have a grasp of it after all;-)
>
>Carolyn
It's a shame you can't seem to carry on any conversation without trying to
sneak in an insult or two. Regardless of what you inferred (see, that's how
that word is correctly used) I didn't say I thought all masses should be
conducted in Latin for English speaking congretations. I said I think it's a
shame Latin isn't used more frequently for all kinds of purposes.
Seaghnaid
yes me too. Where ewas it published and how can we get a copy of it.
pfeff
Carolyn
> It's a shame you can't seem to carry on any conversation without
trying to
> sneak in an insult or two. Regardless of what you inferred (see,
that's how
> that word is correctly used) I didn't say I thought all masses should
be
> conducted in Latin for English speaking congretations. I said I think
it's a
> shame Latin isn't used more frequently for all kinds of purposes.
>
>
nolo contendre, mea culpa, pax vobiscum...ave
Seaghnaid
I'll
see if I still have it on disk somewhere and post it here if I can find i >>
that would be great. Does Kerry have a copy of it?
pfeff
Seaghnaid
(though
not always) bring information to this group, not derive information from it. >>
ohmy god this is hilarious...I thought you'd met him. But you never even have.
pfeff
PButler111
>Date: 1/7/2001 4:51 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010107175109...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
>
><< Where can this article be found, Ms. Butler? I'd like to read it. >>
>
>
>yes me too. Where ewas it published and how can we get a copy of it.
>pfeff
I answered this once already. It was in the first or second edition of the
DCM. It was called "The Children's Hour."
Seaghnaid
DCM. It was called "The Children's Hour." >>
I will call Kerry and get him to send me a copy.
pfeff
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010107175322...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
I haven't met most of the dozens and *dozens* of pathetic losers who claim to
be Morrison's offspring. Whether or not I've met him doesn't change the fact
that the Morrisons denounce him as a fraud and he himself won't take a DNA test
to prove otherwise. Or are you saying that all that's stopping him from taking
a DNA test is a meeting with me?
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010107192130...@ng-xc1.aol.com>
Was there some point in announcing that?
PButler111
>Message-id: <20010107175149...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
Gee, let's see . . . it's Kerry's magazine . . . hmmm . . . I wonder if he
might have a copy of that?
Oh, brother, Pfeff!
Dee
wrote:
> And you haven't yet clarified what accusations have been made against
you in
> regard to Alan Graham, even though you've been asked to do so several
times
> now. What is it you think you're being accused of, Pfeff? It's a
simple
> question -- kindly answer it.
>
I just wanted to respond to this. Patricia, you wrote :
"Oh? Does that mean you worked for/with Alan Graham? How long exactly
did he spend in jail over that little video caper he pulled trying to
exploit his tenuous connection to Morrison? Or did you approve of the
fact that he used to beat Jim's sister during the time they were
married? Nice lot of folks you hang out with, Pfeff: a wife-beater
felon and a bastard wanna-be. "
The last line very clearly indicates that you are accusing pfeff of an
association with Graham without waiting for any indication she even
knew him. If you were only researching, why put the assumption in?
Just to push pfeff's buttons?
Dee
PButler111
>Date: 1/9/2001 8:19 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <93ggrn$o2h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
She wasn't accused of anything -- Graham was. She was asked if she had worked
for/with him. It required a one-word answer. So far she's been hysterical
over it for about a week.
Seaghnaid
Just to push pfeff's buttons?
Dee
>>
pfeff
PButler111
>Date: 1/9/2001 9:31 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010109223113...@ng-cf1.aol.com>
Yes, poor little Pfeff. Physicall incapable of answering direct questions or
making sense. Poor, poor baby.
Dee
pbutl...@aol.com (PButler111) wrote:
> She wasn't accused of anything -- Graham was. She was asked if she
had worked
> for/with him. It required a one-word answer. So far she's been
hysterical
> over it for about a week.
Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear: the line I'm referring to is
"Nice lot of folks you hang out with, Pfeff: a wife-beater felon and a
bastard wanna-be. "
To me, it's very clearly aimed straight at Pfeff and a statement, not a
question (unless of course you are referring to some other wife-beater
felon that I haven't managed to pick up from the conversation). You
_had_ asked the question in the same paragraph, but made your
assumption by the end of the paragraph and fired the barb regardless.
And I do believe she has now answered it in several posts, and the
hysteria you are referring to was really brought on by your initial
comment. If you didn't want the hysteria, maybe you should have worded
it differently: perhaps "Nice lot of people you might hang out with
Pfeff, depending on your answer to my posed question", or even "Gosh,
if you answer yes to my question and these are the type of people you
hang out with, they are a nice bunch." Of course, the Gosh is optional.
PButler111
>Date: 1/10/2001 10:40 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <93jdf8$7or$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
No, gosh was never an option. As usual, Dee, you're nitpicking, and long after
the whole thing is over. Any reason you have to still be talking about this?
Any reason you have to continue repeating it all? Any reason this is even any
of your business. "Nice way you spend your time, depending on your answer to
my posed question."
Seaghnaid
hey thanks, and yes exactly! That is where the hysteria cam from...
pfeff
PButler111
>Date: 01/11/2001 12:01 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010111130117...@ng-fx1.aol.com>
>
><< Dee >>
>
>
>hey thanks, and yes exactly! That is where the hysteria cam from...
>pfeff
>
That, and an already established mental illness that goes back far longer than
this newsgroup.
Seaghnaid
than
this newsgroup.
>>
thanks for alerting us to your problem... I had no idea...
pfeff
Dee
pbutl...@aol.com (PButler111) wrote:
> No, gosh was never an option. As usual, Dee, you're nitpicking, and
long after
> the whole thing is over. Any reason you have to still be talking
about this?
> Any reason you have to continue repeating it all? Any reason this is
even any
> of your business. "Nice way you spend your time, depending on your
answer to
> my posed question."
I'm actually remarkably amused by your comment "as usual". Considering
I've posted on here a total of 12 times, that's pretty impressive...
My last post was quite a long time ago (as a matter of fact, 25 April
2000), so I applaud your seemingly boundless memory.
I didn't realise that this post had a self imposed time limit (if you
could maybe put in one of your posts "And this is the last post
accepted on the subject", I would appreciate it), and obviously an "is
this your business" limit (you might also want to point that out in
your post too) - please accept my apologies for standing on your toes.
As is obvious, I'm a newbie, so if there's maybe a FAQ I should be
reading outlining this, maybe you can point it out? If I'd realised you
didn't actually want an answer to your "what did I accuse Pfeff of"
question, all this could have been avoided.
Rhetorical seems beyond me.
Seaghnaid
Dee
>>
she thinks you are someone who used to post here, but doesn't anymore. Of
course you KNOW she is the center of the ng and must make everyone else feel
less. Be welcome.\
pfeff
Dee
Thanks for the welcome Pfeff! At least if I know she's confusing me
with someone else I can make sense out of the last post...
Dee
>
--
"A conclusion is where you got tired of thinking"
FRODE NÆSS
The book looks interesting!
But Jerry Hopkins writes that "this is not a Sid & Nancy-story".
Well, I think it is. Their story is quite similar. Another dreadful and
glamorous rock & roll lovestory - ending on a sad note...
Sid Vicious was truly amazing, by the way. He is to this day THE face of
youth rebellion, almost as much as Jim is.
They both went under when the pressure went too big. They lost it
completely.
Have any of you seen the works of the young art school student Sid? His
poems, paintings and photographs are awesome!
What he became was what media brought him up to be. Jim Morrison was a poet.
A good one. Perhaps the best one. I know most of his lyrics, and I love them
more than any other poetry I can think of. The Sex Pistols were hugely
influenced by The Doors, believe it or not.
In fact - The Doors were the only group all the Pistols adored.
"When there's no future - how can there be sin?
We're the flowers in your dustbin..." - Johnny Rotten, 1977
Chris...
PButler111
>From: "FRODE NÆSS" frode...@c2i.net
>Date: 1/23/2001 6:00 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <zWob6.5239$Yv.6...@juliett.dax.net>
Well, he said it's not a "vicious Sid and Nancy tale," but goes on to say that
there are moments when "the crazed rock and roll drama of the time -- of all
time? -- takes hold." I think both Sid and Nancy had more and far more serious
mental problems than either Jim or Pamela, though there are some similarities,
yes.
appoap...@gmail.com
appoap...@gmail.com
gioiaf...@gmail.com
> Hi folks,
>
> Does Jim Morrison have a son by the name of Cliff Morrison ?
> Any help will be appreciated .
>
> thanx,
> John
He found out someone was to have an abortion she didn't she had a baby girl who was given up for adoption he found out and wanted his daughter and yes he had two sons' , She was just found by a PI and doesn't speak of it she loved him so I'm sure it was a shock but I happen to know the girl.
gioiaf...@gmail.com
Zen JDM
ivanba...@gmail.com
michael...@gmail.com
> >Subject: Re: Does Jim Morrison have a son ?
> >From: seag...@aol.com (Seaghnaid)
> >Message-id: <20010106212309...@ng-mh1.aol.com>
> >
> ><< Are you saying you're his
> >mother? I'm just wondering >>
> >
> >
> >oh god no! Im just his really good friend and I worked for Lizard Sun for
> >quite
> >awhile as their publicist.
> >pfeff
> Oh? Does that mean you worked for/with Alan Graham? How long exactly did he
> spend in jail over that little video caper he pulled trying to exploit his
> tenuous connection to Morrison? Or did you approve of the fact that he used to
>
Pff Yours seems the only calm voice of reason in a thread of silent shrieks... Scarlett
put...@gmail.com
Jezebell Pecoraro
According to this one article, a DNA sample WAS provided and if I read it correctly, nobody contested it. English is my second language, I apologize for any errors on my part. I also tend to believe NOTHING on the Internet, let alone any media outlet.
Ciao
Here ya go:
https://www.dailybreeze.com/2011/10/07/jim-morrisons-alleged-son-facing-life-in-prison/