About Patricia Kennealy..
Tami Brandt
because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
You don't have to agree with me, but don't attack me like sharks and down
right cuss me out for my opinion of Kennealy either, please.
Sir Zeus
>because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
>couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
>what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
Keneally was just another girl in Jim's eyes. Jim is the lover of Keneally's
life in her eyes. She had no effect on him, just as Yoko had no effect on
The Beatles. There were problems in the group long before Yoko arrived.
Krammerhead
>
> Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia Kennealy
> because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
> couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
> what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
>
> right cuss me out for my opinion of Kennealy either, please.
I really don't give a crap about Jims girlfriends.
Krammerhead
PButler111
>because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
>couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
>what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
>
>You don't have to agree with me, but don't attack me like sharks and down
>right cuss me out for my opinion of Kennealy either, please.
>
I don't see that there's any way to compare her to Yoko Ono. For one thing,
John Lennon loved Yoko Ono, devoted his life to her, married her. Jim denied
even knowing Kennealy and was obviously embarrassed of her and by her. Yoko
Ono had tremendous influence over John Lennon (though she didn't "do" anything
to the Beatles), while Pamela was Jim's muse. There's nothing to indicate that
Kennealy influenced Morrison to any extent beyond making him hide every once in
a while to avoid her if she chased him to L.A.
doorschild
Sir Zeus wrote in message ...
>>Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia
Kennealy
The problem with Jim was he was such a huge witch, that he had
a heck of a time dealing with it. It makes sense if he turned towards
that witchy woman.
The Beatles simply burned out, too much drugs, too much publicity,
too much security eventually caught up with them. When creativity
dies whats the point. They would not have been happy turning out
shit.
"Thats not quite how I see it"
tigerlily22
Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
I am not attacking you Tami, but how in the world do you see any
similarities between Kennealy and Yoko? Don't insult poor Yoko that
way. :)
In article <OS1z3.11352$914.6...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>,
"Tami Brandt" <playbo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia
Kennealy
> because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to
her,
> couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to
Jim
> what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
>
> You don't have to agree with me, but don't attack me like sharks and
down
> right cuss me out for my opinion of Kennealy either, please.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
lizard_a...@my-deja.com
tigerlily22 <sheil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The only thing that Kennealy was to Jim was a major pest and all that
> Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
> I am not attacking you Tami, but how in the world do you see any
> similarities between Kennealy and Yoko? Don't insult poor Yoko that
> way. :)
>
I think Kennealy is aware on some level that she didn't mean as much to
JM as she would have liked. The fact that her website is a one way
street and that she's insulated against snail mail is, I think, a mute
testimony to her lack of confidence in her self-created imaginary world.
I'm guessing that if JM had survived he would be her bitterest enemy and
she wouldn't even be in his thoughts.
There really is no comparison between Yoko Ono and Kennealy -- apart
from the banal fact that they both had relationships with famous rock
stars. But Yoko Ono has a world class brain and Kennealy's is second
rate at best. Comparing them is like comparing Mozart and Salieri, to
borrow an Ono-ism.
--
There are things known to the IRS
And there are things unknown to the IRS
And in between is The Accountant
LtMyFire67
>he only thing that Kennealy was to Jim was a major pest and all that
>Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
Ray said PKM loved Jim, "madly." Janet Erwin said, "Jim had been trying to let
her
down gently since Miami..."
Maybe Jim was really sending her "love' letters & poems from France. That'll
screw up anybodys head...
IMO, I think Jim loved Pam. He always went back to her & in the end was w/her.
Almost every book written by one of the women Jim slept with or had an affair
all say basicly the same thing, Jim loved Pam.The feeling was he let that be
known.
Question becomes , how do you deal with it? Sleep w/someone that beautiful &
not become emotionally attached. Most of them couldn't deal with it.
I understand the hurt but taking on his last name after he died??? I always
wonderd about that. That's a serious thing to do. Any comments on that,
anyone??
( sorry , went off topic...)
dawn
Krammerhead
>
> >Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia Kennealy
> >because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
> >couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
> >what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
>
> life in her eyes. She had no effect on him, just as Yoko had no effect on
Good point. Anyway I always thought it was Ringos nose that broke up
the Beatles.
Krammerhead
PButler111
>not become emotionally attached. Most of them couldn't deal with it.
> I understand the hurt but taking on his last name after he died??? I always
>wonderd about that. That's a serious thing to do. Any comments on that,
>anyone??
>( sorry , went off topic...)
> dawn
How about because she's a pathetic lunatic?
tigerlily22
lizard_a...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <7qjgjb$msp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> tigerlily22 <sheil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
that
> > Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
> > similarities between Kennealy and Yoko? Don't insult poor Yoko that
> > way. :)
> >
>
> I think Kennealy is aware on some level that she didn't mean as much
to
> JM as she would have liked. The fact that her website is a one way
> street and that she's insulated against snail mail is, I think, a mute
> testimony to her lack of confidence in her self-created imaginary
world.
>
Exactly!!!
**************************
>
I'm guessing that if JM had survived he would be her bitterest enemy
and
> she wouldn't even be in his thoughts.
>
I'd like to see her behave the way she is now, if Pamela were still
alive!!!
*****************************************************
tigerlily22
> >Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
>
trying to let
> her
> down gently since Miami..."
> Maybe Jim was really sending her "love' letters & poems from France.
That'll
> screw up anybodys head...
>
> IMO, I think Jim loved Pam. He always went back to her & in the end
was w/her.
> Almost every book written by one of the women Jim slept with or had an
affair
> all say basicly the same thing, Jim loved Pam.The feeling was he let
that be
> known.
beautiful &
> not become emotionally attached. Most of them couldn't deal with it.
> I understand the hurt but taking on his last name after he died??? I
always
> wonderd about that. That's a serious thing to do. Any comments on
that,
> anyone??
It's called insanity and being chronically obsessed.
**************************************************
( sorry , went off topic...)
> dawn
>
LadyChong
>what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
I don't think she had much influence on Jim, at least not as much as Yoko had
on John...
I don't really care either way about Patricia...
-Meg
"Are you telling me that you don't see the connection between government and
laughing at people? "
The Beatles Domain loves you. Visit now:
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/LennonsGal/index.html
Tracy
Thanks for such an accurate reponse. It's a good thing someone finally stated
it right.
Trace
Tami Brandt
consumed with Jim, it's like she tried to isolate him for just herself
alone, and as she tells it, she and Pam got into quite a few cat fights over
Jim with Jim present in the room. (Patricia said she once through Pamela
down a flight of stairs and was surprised she didn't kill her)
I never liked Patricia because it seemed to me like she tried to do that,
and he loved Pam... ok, I'll stop now. I doubt I'm making any sense with
this post. Anyone know what I mean, what I'm trying to get at with the
Patricia was with Jim. If not, than I'll just shut up.
tigerlily22 wrote in message <7qjgjb$msp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>The only thing that Kennealy was to Jim was a major pest and all that
>Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
>I am not attacking you Tami, but how in the world do you see any
>similarities between Kennealy and Yoko? Don't insult poor Yoko that
>way. :)
>
>
>
>
>In article <OS1z3.11352$914.6...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>,
> "Tami Brandt" <playbo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia
>Kennealy
>> because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to
>her,
>> couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to
>Jim
>> what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
>>
>> You don't have to agree with me, but don't attack me like sharks and
>down
>> right cuss me out for my opinion of Kennealy either, please.
>>
>>
>
>
Tami Brandt
LtMyFire67 wrote in message
<19990901224226...@ng-bg1.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: About Patricia Kennealy..
>
>>he would be her bitterest enemy
>>and
>>> she wouldn't even be in his thoughts.
>>>
>>*****************************************************
>>I'd like to see her behave the way she is now, if Pamela were still
>>alive!!!
>
>Never thought about that...holy shit!
> dawn ; )
Dawn --
The thing is Patricia DOESN'T deserve to carry Jim's last name I don't care
if they were married in a Wiccan-style wedding or a Christian wedding.
Pamela deserved his last name more than Patricia EVER did.
Tami
ICQ #4136507 <---If anyone has ICQ and wants to talk about the
Doors/Morrison
Sir Zeus
>consumed with Jim, it's like she tried to isolate him for just herself
>alone, and as she tells it, she and Pam got into quite a few cat fights
over
>Jim with Jim present in the room. (Patricia said she once through Pamela
>down a flight of stairs and was surprised she didn't kill her)
Umm...
#1. The movie is the last thing you'd want to consider a reliable source.
#2. You're thinking about the "Thanksgiving duck" scene in the movie which
is 100% fiction. ("You actually put your dick in this woman Jim?" "Well,
sometimes yeah." Hehe, I do love that part).
#3. It was not Pamela that Patricia knocked down the stairs. It was a woman
who goes by the name Tiffany (and Miz Scarlett online).
LtMyFire67
DLyte99720
>Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia Kennealy
>because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
>couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
>what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
I don't understand this.....since when did Patricia Kennealy ever have such a
great impact on the Doors as a band?
It seems like a terrible analogy to be comparing her to Yoko Ono. I don't see
how they are alike in anyway. It never seemed to me, from what I've read, that
whatever relationship Kennealy had with Morrison ever had an effect on the band
as a whole.
Dee
Robin Stritenberger
heck of a time dealing with it." What does this mean?
Sorry to seem dense.
doorschild wrote in message
<7qjb32$1r0g$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>
>Sir Zeus wrote in message ...
>>>Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia
>Kennealy
>>The Beatles. There were problems in the group long before Yoko arrived.
>
>
doorschild
<7qlres$m6m$1...@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>...
>I don't understand your comment that "Jim was such a huge witch he had a
>heck of a time dealing with it." What does this mean?
>Sorry to seem dense.
>
It just takes one to know one.
Have you ever met the one that makes you crazy?
The one who has a read inside your soul?
The one who knows you better than you do yourself?
Its hard to deal with when you do.
PButler111
price Oliver Stone had to pay in order to use Kennealy's real name. So what
you see is nothing but Kennealy's fantasy of how things were. Pamela wasn't
the "cat fighting" type. If Kennealy threw Pamela down a flight of stairs, I
assure you it was only in her mind and never in reality. Pamela may have been
half Kennealy's size, but she owned guns and knew how to use them, and she was
nowhere near the cream puff Kennealy likes to make her out to be. Pamela also
had several very large, potentially mean male friends who would've happily beat
the shit out of anyone who ever laid a hand on her, had Pamela only asked, Babe
Hill chief among them. If anything, Pamela felt sorry for Kennealy and her
obsession with Jim. When Kennealy showed up at their door and made the big
revelation to Pam that Kennealy had supposedly aborted Jim's child, Pamela
simply said to Kennealy, "How interesting; I never met one of Jim's women
before." She later told her mother she thought it was a shame Kennealy hadn't
kept the baby if she loved Jim so much.
>*Apologizes to Yoko* It just seemed that in the movie, Patricia was so
>consumed with Jim, it's like she tried to isolate him for just herself
>alone, and as she tells it, she and Pam got into quite a few cat fights over
>Jim with Jim present in the room. (Patricia said she once through Pamela
>down a flight of stairs and was surprised she didn't kill her)
>
>I never liked Patricia because it seemed to me like she tried to do that,
>and he loved Pam... ok, I'll stop now. I doubt I'm making any sense with
>this post. Anyone know what I mean, what I'm trying to get at with the
>Patricia was with Jim. If not, than I'll just shut up.
tigerlily22
Pam was just too cool! I love these little tid bits about her. The
trivial things are so facinating to me. I mean, it is so odd to picture
Pamela holding a gun.
And the whole meeting with Patricia K. (if that meeting even took place.
I have to remember that we ARE talking about Kennealy here.) is classic.
"'How interesting. I've never met one of Jim's women before.'" Classy,
classy.
Keep sharing these little stories Pat, I love them. (Yes, I've read your
book, too).
In article <19990902094828...@ng-fp1.aol.com>,
Tami Brandt
Sir Zeus corrected me, it was Tiffany, not Pamela that Patricia flung down a
flight of stairs. My apologies for getting that fact wrong.
Tami
ICQ #4136507
PButler111 wrote in message
<19990902094828...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
Todd Clark
"Tami Brandt" <playbo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dawn wrote:
> >
> > When did PKM take on Jim's last name??? After Pam died?
> > Never thought about that...holy shit!
I will not presume to speak for the late Jim Morrison, but personally,
I would be VERY upset if ANY of the dozens and dozens of female fans I
have had sex with over the three decades of my music career decided to
use my last name without my permission. My consenting to one or more
(or any number for that matter) of sexual interludes with a woman does
not in any way confer any additional rights or privileges that I have
not directly expressed of my own free will. (My two ex-wives, Sheree
and Nancy Jean, who are the mothers of my five children, had my
permission to use the name Clark. No one else has so far, although
several stalkers have tried everything short of it.) In the case of Jim
Morrison, his death precludes the ability to give such consent.
> The thing is Patricia DOESN'T deserve to carry Jim's last name.
> I don't care if they were married in a Wiccan-style wedding or
> a Christian wedding. Pamela deserved his last name more than
> Patricia EVER did.
Again, speaking only for myself, I personally do not find either
Patricia Kennealy or Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
intellectually, or spiritually. Now Nico, on the other hand...
--
Todd Tamanend Clark
Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist
The Clarkestra
Greensboro, Pennsylvania
PButler111
>
>Sir Zeus corrected me, it was Tiffany, not Pamela that Patricia flung down a
>flight of stairs. My apologies for getting that fact wrong.
>
>Tami
Either way it speaks volumes about the woman -- none of it good.
Tracy
>From: tigerlily22
>Keep sharing these little stories Pat, I love them. (Yes, I've read your
>book, too).
Doubt she'll share any more stories if you keep calling her Pat :)
Trace
Krammerhead
Whats the big deal? Its not like Jim Morrison is the only person who
had the last name of Morrison and Clark is not a unique last name
either. So anyone can go and change their last name to whatever they
want-it's no big deal.
Krammerhead
Loki
wrote:
<snip>
>Whats the big deal? Its not like Jim Morrison is the only person who
>had the last name of Morrison and Clark is not a unique last name
>either. So anyone can go and change their last name to whatever they
>want-it's no big deal.
The big deal is that she is using the name to associate herself in
marriage with Jim. She isn't even saying, "My name is Pamela Morrison
and I'm his 8th cousin" or some other distant relation like that.
She's claiming she's his wife.
At the same time, he did get married. Drunk or not, the rules don't
change. Being drunk - even being Jim Morrison - doesn't disqualify
you from responsibility.
>Krammerhead
--
Et in Arcadia Ego...
Loki
-[E-Mail]- juv...@citrus.infi.net
-[WWW]- http://members.xoom.com/balsebub
-[ICQ]- #13134728
"Sign upon the bloody line, a drop of yours, a drop of
mine." - Alice Cooper, "Nothing's Free"
Krammerhead
>
> On Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:50:45 GMT, Krammerhead <kwa...@infoserve.net>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Whats the big deal? Its not like Jim Morrison is the only person who
> >had the last name of Morrison and Clark is not a unique last name
> >either. So anyone can go and change their last name to whatever they
> >want-it's no big deal.
>
> The big deal is that she is using the name to associate herself in
> marriage with Jim. She isn't even saying, "My name is Pamela Morrison
> and I'm his 8th cousin" or some other distant relation like that.
> She's claiming she's his wife.
>
> At the same time, he did get married. Drunk or not, the rules don't
> change. Being drunk - even being Jim Morrison - doesn't disqualify
> you from responsibility.
>
>
> --
> Et in Arcadia Ego...
>
> Loki
I'm aware of all that. Except we are talking about Patricia not Pamela.
But who cares. There are a lot bigger problems in the world than
whether some woman thinks she was married to Jim Morrison.
Krammerhead
PButler111
>Patricia Kennealy or Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
>intellectually, or spiritually. Now Nico, on the other hand...
>
>--
>Todd Tamanend Clark
You know, I would have been willing to be persuaded that my initial impression
of you as a complete asshole might possibly be flawed -- until this post.
You're simply a jerk. You don't find "Pamela Courson to be attractive,
physically, intellectually, or spiritually"? Oh really? And just when did you
ever even meet Pamela Morrison, let alone get to know her so intimately that
you can speak about her intellectual or spiritual attributes? And I'm sure
she's in the afterlife with Jim really kicking herself that she never got a
chance to be groped by such a self-centered, egomaniacal poser like you.
PButler111
>At the same time, he did get married. Drunk or not, the rules don't
>change. Being drunk - even being Jim Morrison - doesn't disqualify
>you from responsibility.
There was no "responsibility" involved. That ceremony only holds water with
people who believe in such things (and even then it doesn't mean beans
legally), which Jim quite obviously didn't.
LtMyFire67
>From: Krammerhead
KRAMMERHEAD!!! HEY!!! Glad to see ya back....
Yeah ok, who cares... but ,why change your last name after the man dies?
After Pam dies too?
>There are a lot bigger problems in the world than
yeah, like mine...
dawn ; )
Tami Brandt
they carry on your name with dignity after you die"
I don't know if I'm missing a line in that quote or not, and since the movie
has very little credit to it being true or not, I have no idea if Jim really
said that or not. I just love the quote.
Tami
Todd Clark wrote in message <7qmpru$5et$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <WLnz3.334$9D2....@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>,
>I will not presume to speak for the late Jim Morrison, but personally,
>I would be VERY upset if ANY of the dozens and dozens of female fans I
>have had sex with over the three decades of my music career decided to
>use my last name without my permission. My consenting to one or more
>(or any number for that matter) of sexual interludes with a woman does
>not in any way confer any additional rights or privileges that I have
>not directly expressed of my own free will. (My two ex-wives, Sheree
>and Nancy Jean, who are the mothers of my five children, had my
>permission to use the name Clark. No one else has so far, although
>several stalkers have tried everything short of it.) In the case of Jim
>Morrison, his death precludes the ability to give such consent.
>
>> The thing is Patricia DOESN'T deserve to carry Jim's last name.
>> I don't care if they were married in a Wiccan-style wedding or
>> a Christian wedding. Pamela deserved his last name more than
>> Patricia EVER did.
>
>Again, speaking only for myself, I personally do not find either
>Patricia Kennealy or Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
>intellectually, or spiritually. Now Nico, on the other hand...
>
>--
>Todd Tamanend Clark
joerossi.com
Todd Clark boasted:
> I would be VERY upset if ANY of the dozens and dozens of female fans I
> have had sex with over the three decades of my music career decided to
> use my last name without my permission. My consenting to one or more
> (or any number for that matter) of sexual interludes with a woman does
> not in any way confer any additional rights or privileges that I have
> not directly expressed of my own free will.
Excuse me great hero, but please make it brief
Is there a hole for me to get sick in?
>
>
> --
> Todd Tamanend Clark
> Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist-Egotist
> The Clarkestra
> Greensboro, Pennsylvania
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
--
CHEERS!
CD now available through amazon.com!
PO BOX 685313 Austin TX 78768-5313
http://www.joerossi.com
themiss...@my-deja.com
"Sir Zeus" <sir...@the-doors.com> wrote:
>
> Keneally was just another girl in Jim's eyes. Jim is the lover of
Keneally's
> life in her eyes.
>
Articulately put, and perfectly said.
Krammerhead
Well ya know to all the people who it offends why not pretend that she
changed her last name to Morrison in honor of Barney Wilbert Morrison
who is a Wal Mart greeter with a penchant for wearing womens
undergarments? That way it won't be offensive.
Krammerhead
Krammerhead
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> PButler111 wrote ...
> <<You know, I would have been willing to be persuaded that my initial
> impression of you as a complete asshole might possibly be flawed --
> until this post. You're simply a jerk>>
>
> I must admit, it was the sad little 'dozens and dozens' comment that
> did it for me, rather than his opinions of a woman who wouldn't have
> given him the time of day (imho, of course).
In my original response to his post I had added that I wasn't sure that
he wasn't just showing off with his 'dozens and dozens' remark but I
deleted it when I figured that it was obvious.
Krammerhead
LtMyFire67
>Wal Mart greeter with a penchant for wearing womens
>undergarments? That way
Huh? LOL!! You kill me...
dawn
lizard_a...@my-deja.com
juv...@citrus.infi.net (Loki) wrote:
> The big deal is that she is using the name to associate herself in
> marriage with Jim. She isn't even saying, "My name is Pamela Morrison
> and I'm his 8th cousin" or some other distant relation like that.
> She's claiming she's his wife.
>
> At the same time, he did get married. Drunk or not, the rules don't
> change. Being drunk - even being Jim Morrison - doesn't disqualify
> you from responsibility.
>
If I correctly remember my contract law, a contract, including a
marriage contract, can be voided (annulled) if the mental incapacity of
one or more of the contractees can be proven to be diminished.
Of course, handfasting isn't legally binding in the first place.
--
There are things known to the IRS
And there are things unknown to the IRS
And in between is The Accountant
Todd Clark
pbutl...@aol.comnexxt (PButler111) wrote:
> > Again, speaking only for myself, I personally do not find either
> > Patricia Kennealy or Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
> > intellectually, or spiritually. Now Nico, on the other hand...
> >
> > Todd Tamanend Clark
>
> You know, I would have been willing to be persuaded that my
> initial impression of you as a complete asshole might possibly
> be flawed -- until this post. You're simply a jerk.
Your juvenile use of name-calling nouns with no scientific meaning such
as "asshole" and "jerk" ill becomes your supposed literary ability as a
published author. Stick to the issues and rise above the immature ad
hominem attacks.
> You don't find "Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
> intellectually, or spiritually"? Oh really? And just when did
> you ever even meet Pamela Morrison, let alone get to know her so
> intimately that you can speak about her intellectual or spiritual
> attributes?
Excuse me, but aren't you the person whose ENTIRE career is based on
this very same woman whom YOU ALSO HAVE NEVER MET ????
Furthermore, all of us are entitled to find or not find anyone
attractive as we are so naturally inclined by our own feelings and
intellect. No one can dictate to another who they MUST find attractive.
I also notice that you did not get the least bit upset over my holding
the same opinion about Patricia Kennealy. Financially motivated
selective outrage, perhaps?
--
Todd Tamanend Clark
Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist
The Clarkestra
Greensboro, Pennsylvania
PButler111
> pbutl...@aol.comnexxt (PButler111) wrote:
>
>> > Again, speaking only for myself, I personally do not find either
>> > Patricia Kennealy or Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
>> > intellectually, or spiritually. Now Nico, on the other hand...
>> >
>> > Todd Tamanend Clark
>>
>> You know, I would have been willing to be persuaded that my
>> initial impression of you as a complete asshole might possibly
>> be flawed -- until this post. You're simply a jerk.
>
>Your juvenile use of name-calling nouns with no scientific meaning such
>as "asshole" and "jerk" ill becomes your supposed literary ability as a
>published author. Stick to the issues and rise above the immature ad
>hominem attacks.
Further example of what a jerk you are.
>> You don't find "Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
>> intellectually, or spiritually"? Oh really? And just when did
>> you ever even meet Pamela Morrison, let alone get to know her so
>> intimately that you can speak about her intellectual or spiritual
>> attributes?
>
>Excuse me, but aren't you the person whose ENTIRE career is based on
>this very same woman whom YOU ALSO HAVE NEVER MET ????
Actually, Todd, I wrote one book about two people -- Jim and Pamela Morrison.
My "ENTIRE career" is not based on the book, nor is the book based on one
person. Beyond that, I don't believe you'll find anywhere in that book a
section where I pronounce judgment on either of these people's personal
attributes, whether it be physical, intellectual, or spiritual, let alone say
that they aren't worthy of my attention because I feel they were lacking in one
or more of these areas.
>Furthermore, all of us are entitled to find or not find anyone
>attractive as we are so naturally inclined by our own feelings and
>intellect. No one can dictate to another who they MUST find attractive.
All you're qualified to say, then, is that you don't find photos of Pamela
physically attractive. You are not qualified to express an opinion beyond
that.
>I also notice that you did not get the least bit upset over my holding
>the same opinion about Patricia Kennealy. Financially motivated
>selective outrage, perhaps?
Yes, you're right, Todd. It was all financially motivated. Everyone knows I
get paid a commission every time someone says something insulting about
Patricia Kennealy. Guess you have me all figured out there. Beyond that, if
you were too stupid to grasp the point being made about Pamela, you are
obviously too stupid to understand that the point applies to both of the women
you insulted.
Charles Schenck
KENNEALY, WAS THAT JIM WAS SIMPLY INTERESTED IN LEARNING ABOUT HER WITCH
CRAFT. HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO LEARN, SO THIS PROBALLY FASCINATED HIM
FOR A WHILE. THEN I THINK HE BEGAN TO SEE HOW SICK IT ALL WAS. THEN HE
TRIED TO GET AWAY FROM HER. I DO THINK IT IS VERY WRONG SHE WAS ALLOWED
TO TAKE HIS LAST NAME. THAT IS JUST WRONG.
Todd Clark
pbutl...@aol.comnexxt (PButler111) wrote:
> > All of us are entitled to find or not find anyone attractive
> > as we are so naturally inclined by our own feelings and intellect.
> > No one can dictate to another who they MUST find attractive.
>
> All you're qualified to say, then, is that you don't find photos
> of Pamela physically attractive. You are not qualified to express
> an opinion beyond that.
In a strict technical sense, you are correct. But if you're going to
apply so severe a standard to my opinions, then you should also apply
it equally, not only to all others in this news group, but to everyone
on every fan-oriented site who ever comments on anyone that they never
knew well personally. The entire celebrity industry would then come to
a near standstill.
Jim Morrison deals with this sociological phenomenon extensively in
"The Lords and the New Creatures".
This poem from page twenty-nine says it well:
There are no longer "dancers," the possessed.
The cleavage of men into actors and spectators
is the central fact of our time. We are obsessed
with heroes who live for us and whom we punish.
If all the radios and televisions were deprived
of their sources of power, all books and paintings
burned tomorrow, all shows and cinemas closed,
all the arts of vicarious existence...
We are content with the "given" in sensation's
quest. We have been metamorphosised from a mad
body dancing on a hillside to a pair of eyes
staring in the dark.
as does this second stanza from page eighty-nine:
The Lords appease us with images. They give us
books, concerts, galleries, shows, cinemas. Es-
pecially the cinemas. Through art they confuse
us and blind us to our enslavement. Art adorns
our prison walls, keeps us silent and diverted
and indifferent.
> > I also notice that you did not get the least bit upset over my
> > holding the same opinion about Patricia Kennealy. Financially
> > motivated selective outrage, perhaps?
>
> Yes, you're right, Todd. It was all financially motivated.
> Everyone knows I get paid a commission every time someone says
> something insulting about Patricia Kennealy. Guess you have me
> all figured out there.
My point is that you have a vested interest in the continuous promotion
of Jim & Pam as an iconic couple along the lines of the celebrity
driven romances of John & Yoko and Sid & Nancy.
> Beyond that, if you were too stupid to grasp the point being made
> about Pamela, you are obviously too stupid to understand that the
> point applies to both of the women you insulted.
I was merely expressing my personal feelings. No direct insult was
intended, but I can see how one was inferred. For that, I do apologize
to both women.
tigerlily22
In article <19990902183317...@ng-ba1.aol.com>,
****************
OOPS! Well thanks for informing me, dear Tracy.
Sorry Patricia! : )
>
****************
LtMyFire67
>THAT JIM WAS SIMPLY INTERESTED IN LEARNING ABOUT HER WITCH
>CRAFT. HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO LEARN, SO THIS PROBALLY FASCINATED HIM
Your absolutely right...I agree, I think Jim was curious, but not taking the
'witchcraft" stuff too serious...at all.
>FOR A WHILE. THEN I THINK HE BEGAN TO SEE HOW SICK IT ALL WAS. THEN HE
>TRIED TO GET AWAY FROM HER.
I don't think that was the primary reason, if the reason at all...
I DO THINK IT IS VERY WRONG SHE WAS ALLOWED
>TO TAKE HIS LAST NAME. THAT IS JUST WRONG.
>
Ballsy. Then again, maybe she really feels she had the right.(?)
The thing is she waited until Pam was gone too... something's wrong there.
msng...@mauigateway.com
Todd Clark <tama...@helicon.net> wrote:
>
> There are no longer "dancers," the possessed.
> The cleavage of men into actors and spectators
> is the central fact of our time. We are obsessed
> with heroes who live for us and whom we punish.
> If all the radios and televisions were deprived
> of their sources of power, all books and paintings
> burned tomorrow, all shows and cinemas closed,
> all the arts of vicarious existence...
>
> We are content with the "given" in sensation's
> quest. We have been metamorphosised from a mad
> body dancing on a hillside to a pair of eyes
> staring in the dark.
>
> as does this second stanza from page eighty-nine:
>
> The Lords appease us with images. They give us
> books, concerts, galleries, shows, cinemas. Es-
> pecially the cinemas. Through art they confuse
> us and blind us to our enslavement. Art adorns
> our prison walls, keeps us silent and diverted
> and indifferent.
>
Ya gotta give the singer some! Brilliant post.... should be more like
them....
Steve
the relationship was in. Maybe they weren't listening ? Even I.Q."s of 180
somethimes miss the point.
PButler111 wrote in message
<19990902160539...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...
DSugerman
No One Here Gets Out Alive, for the sake of brevity, we used her story because
of the Wicca ceremony. We never meant to imply she was Jim's other woman.
Then Oliver Stone combined her with two other characters and suddenly she's
bigger than she was.
Now she's claiming she came up with the anagram for Mr. Mojo Risin'
which the Doors clearly recall Jim coming up with in rehearsal. While I hear
Patricia was sitting in the Doors office parking lot pointing this out to him.
During the L>A> Woman sessions, Jim was avoiding Patricia, I remember, it was
the first time I drove a car--his rented Dodge, from the front of th bldg. to
the back alley entrance, to avoid Keneally.
Just to set the record straight.
Falcon-1
--}Patricia was one of 4 female rock journalists Jim bedded and
proposed to. In
--}No One Here Gets Out Alive, for the sake of brevity, we used her
story because
--}of the Wicca ceremony. We never meant to imply she was Jim's other
woman.
--}Then Oliver Stone combined her with two other characters and
suddenly she's
--}bigger than she was.
--}Now she's claiming she came up with the anagram for Mr. Mojo Risin'
--}which the Doors clearly recall Jim coming up with in rehearsal.
While I hear
--}Patricia was sitting in the Doors office parking lot pointing this
out to him.
--}During the L>A> Woman sessions, Jim was avoiding Patricia, I
remember, it was
--}the first time I drove a car--his rented Dodge, from the front of
th bldg. to
--}the back alley entrance, to avoid Keneally.
--}Just to set the record straight.
From what I can see, she seems to have been just a more often than
not pain in the ass that provided a bit of interest and entertainment
for Jim (the Wicca thing and of course another piece of ass). I wonder
if that "relationship" (had he lived) would've become the original
"Fatal Attraction". She seems to have the proper chemical balances for
it.
One's own immortality is beyond dispute...
... until they die.
Falcon-1
--}In article <7qjgjb$msp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--} tigerlily22 <sheil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--}> The only thing that Kennealy was to Jim was a major pest and all
that
--}> Patricia had with him was a roll in the hay.
--}> I am not attacking you Tami, but how in the world do you see any
--}> similarities between Kennealy and Yoko? Don't insult poor Yoko
that
--}> way. :)
--}>
--}
--}I think Kennealy is aware on some level that she didn't mean as
much to
--}JM as she would have liked. The fact that her website is a one way
--}street and that she's insulated against snail mail is, I think, a
mute
--}testimony to her lack of confidence in her self-created imaginary
world.
--}
At one time she had an e-mail link or perhaps it was a general
question poster. She said she would answer questions as long as they
weren't based on hostility or stupidity in general. I had a question
regarding Jim's family and their overall thoughts as to his chosen
life style. She was very gracious in her answer. She explained to me
that... ... ... oh what a minute - over a year later and she hasn't
even acknowledged the question let alone answered it.
The main thing that bored the hell out of me about her site was the
amount of space that she uses explaining why "everyone" that Jim knew,
besides herself, were/are in general the bad guys.
themiss...@my-deja.com
dsug...@aol.com (DSugerman) wrote:
> Patricia was one of 4 female rock journalists Jim bedded and
proposed to. In
story because
woman.
she's
> Now she's claiming she came up with the anagram for Mr. Mojo Risin'
While I hear
out to him.
remember, it was
bldg. to
I confirm that.
LtMyFire67
>im was avoiding Patricia, I
>remember, it was
>> the first time I dro
do you believe Jim wrote her "loveletters & poems from Paris?The whole "Fire
heart" thing? Just curious...
Dawn
LadyChong
>this very same woman whom YOU ALSO HAVE NEVER MET ????
I was just about to say that myself.
-Meg
"Are you telling me that you don't see the connection between government and
laughing at people? "
The Beatles Domain loves you. Visit now:
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/LennonsGal/index.html
NLbitch
good to see you on here btw
PButler111
>>this very same woman whom YOU ALSO HAVE NEVER MET ????
>
>I was just about to say that myself.
>
>
>-Meg
>
Then it's a good thing you stopped yourself, or you would have made just as big
an ass of yourself as Todd did for saying something so stupid. Aren't you
relieved you didn't?
LadyChong
>big
>an ass of yourself as Todd did for saying something so stupid. Aren't you
>relieved you didn't?
Temper....Temper...
Hill Dweller
>>>this very same woman whom YOU ALSO HAVE NEVER MET ????
>>
>>I was just about to say that myself.
>>
>>
>>-Meg
>>
>
big
>an ass of yourself as Todd did for saying something so stupid. Aren't you
>relieved you didn't?
Actually they've got a good point. And you're the only one making an ass out
of yourself.
Falcon-1
wrote:
--}>>Excuse me, but aren't you the person whose ENTIRE career is based
on
--}>>this very same woman whom YOU ALSO HAVE NEVER MET ????
--}>
--}>I was just about to say that myself.
--}>
--}>
--}>-Meg
--}>
--}
--}Then it's a good thing you stopped yourself, or you would have made
just as big
--}an ass of yourself as Todd did for saying something so stupid.
Aren't you
--}relieved you didn't?
--}
--}http://www.AngelsDance-AngelsDie.com
I agree - that would have been very stupid. Perhaps if they used the
term "living" instead of career.
Is it my imagination or are you just a very bitter human being?
BTW - how's the scholarship funding from your book proceeds going...
Is your book the one with the great "Themis" photos in it?
Todd Clark
"joerossi.com" <j...@joerossi.com> wrote:
> > --
> > Todd Tamanend Clark
> > Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist-Egotist
> > The Clarkestra
> > Greensboro, Pennsylvania
Without the driving force of ego, no art is possible.
At least not art of any worthwhile caliber...
Until you understand this, you will never understand the Doors as a
group.
And you will certainly never understand Jim Morrison as an individual.
If the internet had existed when Morrison was alive, I could easily see
a critic revising Jim's theoretical posting signature to read:
James Douglas Morrison
Poet-Vocalist-Philosopher-Erotic Politician-Egotist
The Doors
Los Angeles, California
I suggest that you read Salvador Dali's classic manifesto "Declaration
of the Artist's Right to His Own Madness".
Or else buy any album by The Artist Formerly Known As Prince.
--
Todd Tamanend Clark
Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist
Greensboro, Pennsylvania
http://www.annihilist.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_all
PButler111
>x-no-archive: yes
>Todd Clark wrote in message <7r0luj$pp7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>:If the internet had existed when Morrison was alive, I could easily
>see
>:a critic revising Jim's theoretical posting signature to read:
>:
>:James Douglas Morrison
>:Poet-Vocalist-Philosopher-Erotic Politician-Egotist
>:The Doors
>:Los Angeles, California
>
No shit!
PButler111
>>Then it's a good thing you stopped yourself, or you would have made just as
>>big
>
>Temper....Temper...
>
>
>-Meg
How in the world would anyone infer anger from that post?
PButler111
>term "living" instead of career.
Had they used the term "living" it would have been just as inaccurate. I make
a "living" from my job. I make a career from my writing. The Morrison book
was simply one project out of that career, and apart from what I currently do
for a living.
>Is it my imagination or are you just a very bitter human being?
It is your imagination.
>BTW - how's the scholarship funding from your book proceeds going...
Fine. Why? Did you want to contribute?
>Is your book the one with the great "Themis" photos in it?
Yes, it is.
joerossi.com
Todd Clark wrote:
> > > --
> > > Todd Tamanend Clark
> > > Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist-Egotist
> > > The Clarkestra
> > > Greensboro, Pennsylvania
>
> Without the driving force of ego, no art is possible.
>
> At least not art of any worthwhile caliber...
>
> Until you understand this, you will never understand the Doors as a
> group.
>
> And you will certainly never understand Jim Morrison as an individual.
>
> If the internet had existed when Morrison was alive, I could easily see
> a critic revising Jim's theoretical posting signature to read:
yeah, well maybe. I was just making fun of your shameless, sexist boasting
of
all the female groupies you'd had sex with.
>
>
> James Douglas Morrison
> Poet-Vocalist-Philosopher-Erotic Politician-Egotist
> The Doors
> Los Angeles, California
>
> I suggest that you read Salvador Dali's classic manifesto "Declaration
> of the Artist's Right to His Own Madness".
>
> Or else buy any album by The Artist Formerly Known As Prince.
>
> --
> Todd Tamanend Clark
> Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist
> Greensboro, Pennsylvania
> http://www.annihilist.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_all
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
--
CHEERS!
CD now available through amazon.com!
PO BOX 685313 Austin TX 78768-5313
http://www.joerossi.com
PButler111
>of course having sex with dozens and dozens of women is sexist.
>
>Krammerhead
No, it was just lying.
Krammerhead
>
> Todd Clark wrote:
>
> > > > --
> > > > Todd Tamanend Clark
> > > > Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist-Egotist
> > > > The Clarkestra
> > > > Greensboro, Pennsylvania
> >
> > Without the driving force of ego, no art is possible.
> >
> > At least not art of any worthwhile caliber...
> >
> > Until you understand this, you will never understand the Doors as a
> > group.
> >
> > And you will certainly never understand Jim Morrison as an individual.
> >
> > If the internet had existed when Morrison was alive, I could easily see
> > a critic revising Jim's theoretical posting signature to read:
>
> yeah, well maybe. I was just making fun of your shameless, sexist boasting
> of
> all the female groupies you'd had sex with.
He sure was boasting but I don't think it was sexist boasting. Unless
Todd Clark
pbutl...@aol.comnexxt (PButler111) wrote:
Krammerhead wrote:
> > He sure was boasting but I don't think it was sexist boasting.
> > Unless of course having sex with dozens and dozens of women is
> > sexist.
Thank you for that much at least.
First of all, it is not sexist when both partners are mutually
consenting adults. And it is definitely not sexist when the woman is
the initiator, as many were. Secondly, I come from a culture (Iroquois)
in which women are respected, empowered, honored, and cherished, and
our clan mother system and matriarchal social order is, in many ways,
the forerunner of the modern women's movement. I'm sorry if the so-
called boasting offends the conservative norms and mores of Eurocentric
society, but I was simply trying to convey what a nightmare it would be
if all the women Jim Morrison or any other performer had ever slept
with were to come forward and begin using his or her last name. I used
myself as an example in order not to presume to speak for another.
To which Butler, without one shred of evidence on her part, added:
> No, it was just lying.
It was not in any way a lie.
tigerlily22
name. She took his last name while he was living and he was aware of
it and it didn't bother him, from what I can gather from all the info
out there.
Patricia Kennealy, on the other hand, took his name after he died and
she is the one that I hope you are directing your comments to on the
subject of name taking. She really has no right to take Jim 's name.
In my book, that is a disgrace to him...when it is so obvious that he
really wouldn't go for THAT ONE!
In article <7r1d1m$9s0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
PButler111
as Iroquiois as my cat is, and I'm sure your tales of sexual exploits would go
over big in an 8th grade locker room, but here it sounds like so much wishful
thinking. Real men don't need to brag about such things. Only little pretend
men who have nothing to really brag about need to go around shouting about how
macho they are.
>> > He sure was boasting but I don't think it was sexist boasting.
>> > Unless of course having sex with dozens and dozens of women is
>> > sexist.
>
>Thank you for that much at least.
>
>First of all, it is not sexist when both partners are mutually
>consenting adults. And it is definitely not sexist when the woman is
>the initiator, as many were. Secondly, I come from a culture (Iroquois)
>in which women are respected, empowered, honored, and cherished, and
>our clan mother system and matriarchal social order is, in many ways,
>the forerunner of the modern women's movement. I'm sorry if the so-
>called boasting offends the conservative norms and mores of Eurocentric
>society, but I was simply trying to convey what a nightmare it would be
>if all the women Jim Morrison or any other performer had ever slept
>with were to come forward and begin using his or her last name. I used
>myself as an example in order not to presume to speak for another.
>
>To which Butler, without one shred of evidence on her part, added:
>
>> No, it was just lying.
>
>It was not in any way a lie.
joerossi.com
Todd Clark wrote:
> In article <19990906150341...@ng-fj1.aol.com>,
> pbutl...@aol.comnexxt (PButler111) wrote:
>
> Krammerhead wrote:
>
> > > He sure was boasting but I don't think it was sexist boasting.
> > > Unless of course having sex with dozens and dozens of women is
> > > sexist.
>
> Thank you for that much at least.
>
> First of all, it is not sexist when both partners are mutually
> consenting adults. And it is definitely not sexist when the woman is
> the initiator, as many were. Secondly, I come from a culture (Iroquois)
> in which women are respected, empowered, honored, and cherished, and
> our clan mother system and matriarchal social order is, in many ways,
> the forerunner of the modern women's movement. I'm sorry if the so-
> called boasting offends the conservative norms and mores of Eurocentric
> society, but I was simply trying to convey what a nightmare it would be
> if all the women Jim Morrison or any other performer had ever slept
> with were to come forward and begin using his or her last name. I used
> myself as an example in order not to presume to speak for another.
>
> To which Butler, without one shred of evidence on her part, added:
>
> > No, it was just lying.
>
> It was not in any way a lie.
>
> --
> Todd Tamanend Clark
> Poet-Synthesist-Guitarist-Percussionist
> Greensboro, Pennsylvania
> http://www.annihilist.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_all
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
--
Todd Clark
pbutl...@aol.comnexxt (PButler111) wrote:
> You're about as Iroquiois (sic) as my cat is.
Seni'dano:we:h.
You, Patricia Butler, are guilty of both lying and racism.
De'e nissaya'da:wes?
Have you no absolutely no shame, that you think even someone's
ethnicity is fair game for your completely unwarranted ad hominem
attacks against so many of us on this and other news groups?
And how about all the times on previous postings that you've called
both Ray Manzarek and Danny Sugerman liars for what they have written
in their respective books?
I hereby publicly turn my back on you, as is the custom among Native
Americans towards someone who behaves as you do.
I encourage all others whom you have wronged to do likewise.
Gaedi'gwa ho'we:' dago:ji'?
PButler111
>Americans towards someone who behaves as you do.
>
>I encourage all others whom you have wronged to do likewise.
>
>Gaedi'gwa ho'we:' dago:ji'?
>
ROFL! Even my cat's laughing at this one!!
By the way, I know several words in Spanish, too, but that doesn't make me
Carmen Miranda.
Krammerhead
But to be sexist is to discriminate in favour of members of one sex or
to assume that a persons abilities and social functions are
predetermined by his or her sex.
Krammerhead
Marcia Philbin
MP
Krammerhead
>
> No, that's chauvinist, right?
>
> MP
Actually no. That is the belief that ones own sex is superior. He
never mentioned being superior just that he slept with a lot of women.
He was bragging, perhaps, nothing more.
Krammerhead
Gerard Honore
partiality-and-loyalty to one's own interest group. The term takes its name
from Nicholas Chauvin, a character in Cogniard's 19th century play, and an
ultra-patriotic devotee of Napoleon's.
The use of the term as applied to discrimination by gender is much newer,
and not entirely accurate.
Gerard
Krammerhead <kwa...@infoserve.net> wrote in message
news:37D597...@infoserve.net...
Krammerhead
>
> Actually, "chauvinism" refers to excessive and thoughtless patriotism, or of
> partiality-and-loyalty to one's own interest group. The term takes its name
> from Nicholas Chauvin, a character in Cogniard's 19th century play, and an
> ultra-patriotic devotee of Napoleon's.
That is one meaning of the word but not the one that was inferred.
> The use of the term as applied to discrimination by gender is much newer,
> and not entirely accurate.
According to the new Oxford Dictionary it is accurate.
Regardless, boasting about ones sexual exploits in neither sexist or
chauvinist. Annoying, maybe.
Krammerhead
Tracy
>From: "Marisa"
>It's ill-mannered, ill-advised, and screams "small penis".
LOL, Marisa. Can you imagine Jim making public statements like that? He
probably slept with more women than 90% of the male population, but he didn't
need to tell the world.
Trace
Jamison
On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:16:57 -0400, "Marisa" <mar...@citrus.infi.net>
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>Tracy wrote in message ...
><< Can you imagine Jim making public statements like that? He
>probably slept with more women than 90% of the male population, but he
>didn't need to tell the world. Trace>>
>
>Yup. He was very discreet -- gotta respect that.
>
>Marisa
>
Jamison
themiss...@my-deja.com
LtMyFire67
>I think he just couldn't remember their names the next day.
>
>
>On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:16:57 -0400, "Marisa" <mar...@citrus.infi.net>
>wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>Tracy wrote in message ...
>><< Can you imagine Jim making public statements like that? He
>>probably slept with more women than 90% of the male population, but he
>>didn't need to tell the world. Trace>>
>>
>>Yup. He was very discreet -- gotta respect that.
>>
>>Marisa
Somehow I doubt that...
sea2...@abac.com
Yoko Ono did nothing to John Lennon. He was an intelligent man. His
choices were his alone.
Jim's dead (surprise surprise) there's no way to prove the things Ms.
Kennealy claims until after the year 2000. Why don't we all make our
decisions about the woman AFTER she has released the papers given to her
before his death? Papers she says will prove many things regarding his
relationship with her.
sea2sand
Sir Zeus wrote:
>
> >Is it just me or does anyone else feel resentment towards Patricia Kennealy
> >because of the way she was with Jim. I mean I never could take to her,
> >couldn't stand her, didn't and never will like her. To me she did to Jim
> >what Yoko Ono did to the Beatles.. anyone else feel this way?
>
> Keneally was just another girl in Jim's eyes. Jim is the lover of Keneally's
> life in her eyes. She had no effect on him, just as Yoko had no effect on
> The Beatles. There were problems in the group long before Yoko arrived.
sea2...@abac.com
wicca ceremonial papers, signed and witness? The numerous times he
spent in her apartment in New York? His letters to her seem awfully
ummm.. personal for a woman who is being called nuts.
Was she there during the trial in Miami? Do you consider her a stalker?
I have my own doubts about the truths she espouses but I'm willing to
wait until she is legally able to release her "proof" as she calls it.
THe fact remains, Morrison's life away from the watchful eye of the band
members and hired baby-sitters was his own. Who can say they know his
exact motivations, loves or thoughts?
sea2sand
DSugerman wrote:
>
> Patricia was one of 4 female rock journalists Jim bedded and proposed to. In
> No One Here Gets Out Alive, for the sake of brevity, we used her story because
> of the Wicca ceremony. We never meant to imply she was Jim's other woman.
> Then Oliver Stone combined her with two other characters and suddenly she's
> bigger than she was.
> Now she's claiming she came up with the anagram for Mr. Mojo Risin'
> which the Doors clearly recall Jim coming up with in rehearsal. While I hear
> Patricia was sitting in the Doors office parking lot pointing this out to him.
> During the L>A> Woman sessions, Jim was avoiding Patricia, I remember, it was
> the first time I drove a car--his rented Dodge, from the front of th bldg. to
> the back alley entrance, to avoid Keneally.
> Just to set the record straight.
sea2...@abac.com
great detail about the movie. If one is to believe your book Ms. Butler
then we must give the same respect to Ms. Kennealy's book.
Anyway, the movie is a fantasy, the sequences of events are not true to
the real time frame in which they happened.
According to Ms. Kennealy's book, she never threw Pam down the stairs...
They smoked some pot together and drank wine.
Your quote attributed to Pam, "How interesting; I never met one of Jim's
women before." Is similar to the quote Ms. Kennealy wrote in her book.
PButler111 wrote:
>
> But you have to remember that Kennealy wrote her own part in the movie, the
> price Oliver Stone had to pay in order to use Kennealy's real name. So what
> you see is nothing but Kennealy's fantasy of how things were. Pamela wasn't
> the "cat fighting" type. If Kennealy threw Pamela down a flight of stairs, I
> assure you it was only in her mind and never in reality. Pamela may have been
> half Kennealy's size, but she owned guns and knew how to use them, and she was
> nowhere near the cream puff Kennealy likes to make her out to be. Pamela also
> had several very large, potentially mean male friends who would've happily beat
> the shit out of anyone who ever laid a hand on her, had Pamela only asked, Babe
> Hill chief among them. If anything, Pamela felt sorry for Kennealy and her
> obsession with Jim. When Kennealy showed up at their door and made the big
> revelation to Pam that Kennealy had supposedly aborted Jim's child, Pamela
> simply said to Kennealy, "How interesting; I never met one of Jim's women
> before." She later told her mother she thought it was a shame Kennealy hadn't
> kept the baby if she loved Jim so much.
sea2...@abac.com
participants being dead...
sea2sand
Steve wrote:
>
> I guess you could say some don't ,can't or won't grasp the actual context
> the relationship was in. Maybe they weren't listening ? Even I.Q."s of 180
> somethimes miss the point.
>
>
PButler111
>How do you respond to the gifts he gave Ms. Kennealy? The poetry, the
>wicca ceremonial papers, signed and witness? The numerous times he
>spent in her apartment in New York? His letters to her seem awfully
>ummm.. personal for a woman who is being called nuts.
>Was she there during the trial in Miami? Do you consider her a stalker?
I don't know that he gave her anything. Do you? It certainly seems as though
she keeps conveniently "discovering" new things all the time. She must have
quite a messy apartment if she still keeps turning up new stuff after 28 years.
She did turn up at the Miami trial to try to get Jim to marry her. Nothing
like adding to his stress. He told Babe Hill, who was there with Jim, that she
was a problem he had to take care of, that she was making all sorts of claims,
saying they'd been married, which he had no memory of whatsoever. She'd turn
up occassionally in L.A. looking for him, too, and Jim would have to hide and
ask others to help him keep her away from him. Stalker? What do you think?
>I have my own doubts about the truths she espouses but I'm willing to
>wait until she is legally able to release her "proof" as she calls it.
She can legally do whatever she wants right now but she won't. There's nothing
stopping her from distributing this information. And she won't be any more
legally entitled to within her lifetime. That whole copyright bullshit is just
that -- bullshit. She's never asked for permission, and the copyright won't
lapse in her lifetime.
>THe fact remains, Morrison's life away from the watchful eye of the band
>members and hired baby-sitters was his own. Who can say they know his
>exact motivations, loves or thoughts?
>
>sea2sand
I'd say he could. And, since he denied Kennealy's claims and left the country
with another woman, I'd say he made those "motivations, loves or thoughts"
quite clear.
"Cunnilingus and psychiatry have brought us to this." -- Tony Soprano
PButler111
Actually, Stone had to agree to let her rewrite her character in the movie in
order for him to have permission to use her real name, so she did, in fact,
have pretty close control over that aspect of the script.
Her book goes in
>great detail about the movie. If one is to believe your book Ms. Butler
>then we must give the same respect to Ms. Kennealy's book.
That's pretty convoluted logic. That's like saying, If one is to believe the
New York Times, then we must give the same respect to The National Enquirer."
> Anyway, the movie is a fantasy, the sequences of events are not true to
>the real time frame in which they happened.
>According to Ms. Kennealy's book, she never threw Pam down the stairs...
>They smoked some pot together and drank wine.
Yes, that's what she said.
>Your quote attributed to Pam, "How interesting; I never met one of Jim's
>women before." Is similar to the quote Ms. Kennealy wrote in her book.
>
Yes, that's where I got it. That's why I wrote in the book that Pamela
"reportedly" said it.
Steve
sea2...@abac.com wrote in message <37DF37B8...@abac.com>...
Barry Welch
...
>THe fact remains, Morrison's life away from the watchful eye of the band
>members and hired baby-sitters was his own. Who can say they know his
>exact motivations, loves or thoughts?
>
sea2...@abac.com
Patricia Keneally wrote and published a slew of popular sci-fi books titled
the Keltiad, using her real name, Patricia Keneally. She never spoke
publicly about Jim until the movie was made in the mid 90's, at that point
she felt she should write her own book, She did not use his last name
earlier because she would be accused of making money off of his name. I
believe 1996, was the first year she added Morrison to her name and to her
books.
The Wiccian ceremony is considered a legal document of marriage.
Recognized under the freedom of religion laws in all states.
Pam while certainly at one time Jim's lover and friend used the name Pam
"Morrison." Without the benefit of a legal marriage. Jim certainly made no
move to make her his wife...
I'm not going to bag on Pamela. She's dead. She lived the "high" and died
the "high" life. She was a beautiful woman. Nobody really knows how the use
of drugs changed her personality....or his. I wish she were still alive.
If she deserved his last name then why didn't he want to marry her?
Sara
PSSS..You're right about Nico, she was beautiful...
> > > > When did PKM take on Jim's last name??? After Pam died?
> > > > Never thought about that...holy shit!
> >
> > I will not presume to speak for the late Jim Morrison, but personally,
> > I would be VERY upset if ANY of the dozens and dozens of female fans I
> > have had sex with over the three decades of my music career decided to
> > use my last name without my permission. My consenting to one or more
> > (or any number for that matter) of sexual interludes with a woman does
> > not in any way confer any additional rights or privileges that I have
> > not directly expressed of my own free will. (My two ex-wives, Sheree
> > and Nancy Jean, who are the mothers of my five children, had my
> > permission to use the name Clark. No one else has so far, although
> > several stalkers have tried everything short of it.) In the case of Jim
> > Morrison, his death precludes the ability to give such consent.
> >
> > > The thing is Patricia DOESN'T deserve to carry Jim's last name.
> > > I don't care if they were married in a Wiccan-style wedding or
> > > a Christian wedding. Pamela deserved his last name more than
> > > Patricia EVER did.
> >
> > Again, speaking only for myself, I personally do not find either
> > Patricia Kennealy or Pamela Courson to be attractive, physically,
> > intellectually, or spiritually. Now Nico, on the other hand...
PButler111
>Todd and Tami, Dawn...
>
>Patricia Keneally wrote and published a slew of popular sci-fi books titled
>the Keltiad, using her real name, Patricia Keneally. She never spoke
>publicly about Jim until the movie was made in the mid 90's, at that point
>she felt she should write her own book.
That's not true. She was talking about and writing about Jim long before the
thought of the movie had come up. In fact, her "bio" started out to be a novel
but she couldn't sell it. It was only when the movie was made and there was a
demand for Morrison books that she was able to sell the thing, only revamped as
"non-fiction."
She did not use his last name
>earlier because she would be accused of making money off of his name.
And how is that any different than using it later for the same reason?
> The Wiccian ceremony is considered a legal document of marriage.
>Recognized under the freedom of religion laws in all states.
This is simply false. This is in no way a legal ceremony nor a legal marriage.
Kennealy was never legally married to anyone, least of all Jim Morrison.
>Pam while certainly at one time Jim's lover and friend used the name Pam
>"Morrison." Without the benefit of a legal marriage. Jim certainly made no
>move to make her his wife...
Really? Then how do you explain all those marriage licenses the two of them
kept taking out? And the fact that he told his friends they wanted to get
married? In fact, simply the fact that he very publicly acknowledged her as
his companion while hiding from Kennealy if she ever showed up in town and
getting the people at the Doors office to tell her he was out of the country?
Pamela and Jim lived together from 1966 until his death. They came one hell of
a lot closer to "the benefit of legal marriage" than Kennealy could ever dream
of having done.
>I'm not going to bag on Pamela. She's dead. She lived the "high" and died
>the "high" life. She was a beautiful woman. Nobody really knows how the use
>of drugs changed her personality....or his. I wish she were still alive.
>If she deserved his last name then why didn't he want to marry her?
If Kennealy deserved Morrison's last name, why did she have to wait until he
and Pamela were both long dead to use it? Pamela used Jim's last name with
Jim's full approval and blessing. He loved that she called herself Morrison.
He called her that, too. So did his friends refer to her as Pamela Morrison.
In fact, Jim referred to Pam's parents as "the in-laws." No one who knew the
two of them ever thought of any other woman as holding that place in Jim's life
-- no one.
TerriRites
<<But you have to remember that Kennealy wrote her own part in the movie, the
price Oliver Stone had to pay in order to use Kennealy's real name. So what
you see is nothing but Kennealy's fantasy of how things were.>>
Really? Well if that's true why is Patricia so pissed about the movie? Why
does she claim that very little about she and Jim in the film is accurate? Do
you mean she lied to Oliver and then lied about what she lied about?
<<Pamela wasn't the "cat fighting" type. If Kennealy threw Pamela down a
flight of stairs, I assure you it was only in her mind and never in reality.>>
I'm sure you've been corrected on this, but PKM never claimed to have thrown
Pam down a flight of stairs. She contends that all of her dealings with Pam
were civil, maybe even boardering on pleasant.
Terri
TerriRites
<<She's never asked for permission, and the copyright won't lapse in her
lifetime.>>
I just really want to know Patricia. Do you really think that the Courson's
would grant her that permission? Do you actually think PKM should even bother
to ask them? Can you understand why she won't ask for it? I certainly can.
Likewise, I can understand why they wouldn't grant the permission in the first
place!
Also, again... before this repeats... The copyright is up in three years.
She'll still be quite alive by then.
Terri
PButler111
>
><<She's never asked for permission, and the copyright won't lapse in her
>lifetime.>>
>
>I just really want to know Patricia. Do you really think that the Courson's
>would grant her that permission? Do you actually think PKM should even bother
>to ask them? Can you understand why she won't ask for it?
I know exactly why she won't ask for it. If she did, and they granted it,
she'd be up shit's creek without an excuse. She never presented this scenario
as she wouldn't ask the Coursons for permission, she's always presented it that
they refused to give that permission, thus making them the bad guys.
I certainly can.
>Likewise, I can understand why they wouldn't grant the permission in the
>first
>place!
And, by the way, they hated my guts and threatened to sue me every day over my
book, but I got permission for all the poetry I wanted to use. I doubt the
Coursons even see these requests. Kennealy could quite easily get permission
if she really wanted to, but she doesn't.
>Also, again... before this repeats... The copyright is up in three years.
>She'll still be quite alive by then.
>
>Terri
You seem to be getting your copyright information straight from Kennealy. Best
check up on your facts. The copryight for this material will not be up in
Kennealy's lifetime, nor in most of ours, either.
PButler111
>price Oliver Stone had to pay in order to use Kennealy's real name. So what
>you see is nothing but Kennealy's fantasy of how things were.>>
>
>Really? Well if that's true why is Patricia so pissed about the movie? Why
>does she claim that very little about she and Jim in the film is accurate?
>Do
>you mean she lied to Oliver and then lied about what she lied about?
No, she's pissed because Stone made Pamela appeared more important than
Kennealy wanted him to (thought still not as important as she was) and because
he portrayed -- accurately -- Jim telling her in Miami that he was stoned
during the so-called "wedding" and just thought it would be a fun thing to do
at the time.
><<Pamela wasn't the "cat fighting" type. If Kennealy threw Pamela down a
>flight of stairs, I assure you it was only in her mind and never in
>reality.>>
>
>I'm sure you've been corrected on this, but PKM never claimed to have thrown
>Pam down a flight of stairs. She contends that all of her dealings with Pam
>were civil, maybe even boardering on pleasant.
>
>Terri
The person who posted here that Kennealy threw Pam down the stairs was
corrected on that, yes.
Fab521
>you mean she lied to Oliver and then lied about what she lied about?
Where ya been?
I think the above is a good call.
Lies, then lying about the lies.
Seems to be the case with PK.
fab
TerriRites
<<And, by the way, they hated my guts and threatened to sue me every day over
my book, but I got permission for all the poetry I wanted to use.>>
Most likely because they had seen all the poetry that you had access to. As
far as I know, they don't know what PKM has and I doubt they want to open that
Pandora's Box.
<<Kennealy could quite easily get permission if she really wanted to, but she
doesn't.>>
Again, I don't see why she should have to ask their permission in the first
place. But she would have to, no matter how ridiculous it is. Regardless of
whether or not they would grant the permission (which I doubt)... if she
doesn't want to grovel to them, I don't blame her.
<< Best check up on your facts. The copryight for this material will not be up
in
Kennealy's lifetime, nor in most of ours, either.>>
Okay. Do you mind sharing the information you have regarding the copyright
then? Why is she saying the copyright is up in three years when it won't be?
What do you think is her motivation for that?
Terri
TerriRites
<<No, she's pissed because Stone made Pamela appeared more important than
Kennealy wanted him to (thought still not as important as she was) and because
he portrayed -- accurately -- Jim telling her in Miami that he was stoned
during the so-called "wedding" and just thought it would be a fun thing to do
at the time.>>
I assume you didn't hear this from her. She told everyone else something
completely different.
Terri
TerriRites
Hi Fab! Nice to hear a kind voice!
<<Where ya been?>>
Oh, just lurking, you know. Since I've been back on here, I'm already falling
way behind in everything I need to do. But, I just can't resist sometimes. ;-)
I wrote:
>Do
>you mean she lied to Oliver and then lied about what she lied about?
Fab wrote:
<<I think the above is a good call.
Lies, then lying about the lies.
Seems to be the case with PK.>>
Seems like a lot of trouble to me. Well anyway, from what I remember about you
Fab, you and I pleasantly agreed to disagree and that sure makes things easier
around here... and promotes healthy relationships! Take care!
Terri