Did Jim Morrison know Charlie Manson?
Salvadorwriter
> O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
> remember reading this anywhere, but do any
> of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
> [Charlie] Manson? ...
Probably, but to my knowledge no one has of prominence
has publicly stated that Morrison and Manson knew
each other, but there is compelling circumstantial
that they did.
- Canned Heat's drummer, Fito de la Parra, revealed
--in his book, Living the Blues--that Morrison was
friends with Alan Wilson, one of Canned Heat's
founding members, rhythm guitarist, harmonica
player, and vocalist.(1) On September 3, 1970,
Wilson was found dead in a sleeping bag near the
home of fellow band member, Bob "the Bear" Hite,
in Topanga Canyon, L.A.(2) Wilson was living with
Hite at the time of his death. De la Parra further
claims Hite (also deceased) boasted of "knowing
Manson family members."(3) It is quite possible
--given the location of Hite's home in Topanga
Canyon--that Hite did in fact meet members of the
Manson family at the Spiral Staircase, the Satanic
house in Topanga Canyon where Manson and his family
members once spent a lot of time. And since Morrison
was friends with Hite's house mate, Alan Wilson, it
is quite possible that Morrison and Wilson may have
accompanied Hite to the Spiral Staircase at some
point where Morrison may have met Manson. In
addition, Morrison had bought his longtime
girlfriend, Pamela Courson, a cottage in Topanga.(4)
So he was geographically close to the Spiral
Staircase through Courson as well as Bob Hite
and Alan Wilson.
- Rock journalist/author, Barney Hoskyns, revealed
in his book, Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or (2001),
that Manson family member Bobby Beausoleil played
rhythm guitar for the rock group Love briefly in
1965, when they were named The Grass Roots.(5)
(Different band than the Grass Roots that had
several hits in the late Sixties.) Beausoleil was
later convicted of murdering Gary Hinman. Morrison
was friends with Love's founder, Arthur Lee. In
fact, Lee encouraged Elektra Records' founder and
president, Jac Holzman, to sign the Doors. (6)
Beausoleil claims he remained on good terms with
Lee after leaving Love. (Beausoleil was replaced
by Bryan Maclean because Maclean had been a roadie
for the Byrds and had lots of connections in the
LA music scene through the renowned rock group.)
Beausoleil claims Lee renamed the group Love, in
honor of Beausoleil, because his nickname was
Cupid.(7) Surprisingly, Vincent Bugliosi
corroborated that Beausoleil's nickname was in
fact Cupid in Bugliosi's famous book, Helter
Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders.(8)
Given that Beausoleil and Lee apparently remained
friends after parting ways musically, and given
that Morrison was also friends with Lee, and given
that Beausoleil was a member of Charlie Manson's
renowned "family", it is quite possible that Manson
met Morrison through the Lee/Beausoleil connection.
- Writer Barney Hoskyns claims Jerry Hopkins and
Doug Lyon co-managed Love in 1966.(9) This is quite
odd, given that Hopkins mentioned Love in his
Morrison biography, No One Here Gets Out Alive
(co-authored with Danny Sugerman), but failed to
reveal that he managed the lesser-known LA band.
- One of Love's albums shows them standing/sitting
on a spiral staircase. During that period, Love
reportedly lived together in a Gothic mansion once
owned by actor Bela Lugosi. On May 22, 1999, Sean
Elder wrote an article about Love for Salon magazine
in San Francisco. In the article, Elder described
how the mansion's "destroyed fireplace and spiral
staircase appear in most of the Love photo shoots"
from the Sixties.(10) Could Lugosi's Gothic
mansion be the same place in Topanga Canyon that
Charlie Manson called the "Spiral Staircase," the
house of drugs, sex and depraved satanic practices?
(NOTE: Someone mentioned recently--in a discussion
group on one of Love's websites--that the Lugosi
house is not the same residence as the Satanic
Spiral Staircase, frequented by Manson et al.
Manson claims he met Bobby Beausoleil at the Spiral
Staircase, so there appears to be a common thread
surrounding this bizarre residence. Further
research is needed to determine if it is in fact
the same place.)
Based on the evidence presented herein, it is highly
possible--if not probable--that Manson and Morrison
met at some point, and perhaps saw each other
frequently at the Spiral Staircase in Topanga Canyon.
Salvador Astucia
SOURCES:
(1) Fito de la Parra, Living the Blues: Canned Heat's Story of Music, Drugs,
Death, Sex and Survival; p 76
(2) ibid, pp. 165-168
(3) ibid, p 217
(4) Jerry Hopkins and Danny Sugerman, No One Here Gets Out Alive, p 271
(5) Barney Hoskyns, Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or, pp. 22-24
(6) Jerry Hopkins & Danny Sugerman, No One Here Gets Out Alive, p 91
(7) Barney Hoskyns, Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or, pp. 22-24
(8) Vincent Bugliosi & Curt Gentry, Helter Skelter: The True Story of the
Manson Murders. Reference caption by photo of Robert "Bobby" Beausoleil, in
64-page photo-collection midway through book. The caption reads: "Robert
'Bobby' Beausoleil," aka Cupid, age 22...murderer." (Pages are not numbered in
the photo section.)
(9) Barney Hoskyns, Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or, p 26
(10) Sean Elder, "Love's labors lost", May 22, 1999, Salon;
http://www.salon.com/people/feature/1999/05/22/arthurlee/index1.html
===
Ordering information for Salvador Astucia's books can be found at
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/raveningwolf/
(About 150 pages from "Lennon book" (558 pages total) can be viewed
at http://www.jfkmontreal.com )
Salvadorwriter
[Fast Talker]
> O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
> remember reading this anywhere, but do any
> of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
> [Charlie] Manson? ...
Probably, but to my knowledge no one of prominence
has publicly stated that they did; however,
compelling circumstantial evidence reveals
a probable friendship or casual acquaintance.
Alexander DeLarge
discontent. :)
And the greatest cult film website on the internet is located at:
SUBTERRANEAN CINEMA
http://www.subcin.com
RARE FILM MEGASITE!
video / audio / wavs/ mp3s / screenplays
Alric Knebel
"Salvadorwriter" <salvado...@cs.com> wrote:
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . And Sally Field starred in the movie STEEL MAGNOLIAS, which was
directed by Herbert Ross, who directed the movie FOOTLOOSE, which starred
KEVIN BACON!
Alric Knebel
Fast Talker
>prominence has publicly stated that Morrison
>and Manson knew each other, but there is
>compelling circumstantial that they did.
Salvadorwriter,
It is not surprising that any musicians in those days would meet
other musicians. They were inventing or re-inventing Rock & Roll in the
Bayarea and L.A.
Before Helter Skelter, Manson was seen I think as an aspiring
musician to others...and Bobby B., things turned sour ( I think ) along
the way. Bobby B. has a website with a lengthy
bio written on it and the subject.
He said that he tried out for Love, I think they liked him but he was
too young then. He spoke of a band he formed with a musician who later
went on to perform the song "White Bird."
Surely you heard it ...It goes ...White Biiiiirddd in a golden
cage....etc. White bird must fly or
it will die... something like that.
I want to say the website is www.Bobby.com
or www.Bobby.net or org. It is a long story that
if you have interest in that kinda nostalgia you might like it.
He also said alot of people started O.D.ing
in those days. He says he wasn't into heroin
like allot of others then were and he saw what it
did to others.
I don't want to speak for him... try to find his website if you
haven't read it already.
Fast Talker
>prominence has publicly stated that Morrison
>and Manson knew each other, but there is
>compelling circumstantial that they did.
I think Manson and Morrison have many similarities are at least a few.
The desert for one thing and the LSD poetry. Keep in mind that LSD was
not an illegal substance in the '60's and it is not surprising that
Manson being
a parolee would use LSD if no time was involved and others called it a
party.
I would think Manson had to try and walk a fine line a bit to keep
from being put right back into
prison. The books written about him and them
sound like they went everywhere met everyone
and were involved in a bit of everything over a
period of a few years. ( I'm exaggerating a little )
I think I read that the Church of Satan guy
was an L.A.P.D. crime scene photographer.
Anton Levay. ( not real surprsing )
I imagine the kinda music Bobby B. was into
is the kind of music you hear in the background
of films on Cable channels these days. It sounds allot like "Dark Art"
in my opinion.
That is only my guess....
Fast Talker
www.beausoleil.net/bobby.html
Fast Talker
>Spiral Staircase, so there appears to be a
>common thread surrounding this bizarre
>residence.
Back in the late '80's early '90's I read Charles
"Tex" Watsons book and I read Susan Atkins book ( They are presented as
Born again Christians ) I read another book written by a
Edwards I think it was and it was pretty good.
You've probably read them all yourself.
Watson describes a bad trip he took while eating some powerful drug
called Bella Donna
and said he wrecked a motorcycle and then went to sleep in the car he
hit. LOL.
I wonder if that Bella made him think of Bella Lagossi? (sp.) LOL.
The books were interesting reading. but none of the facts ever seem
to jive or stay the same.
For example Bobby B. says he met Manson from a flier he found that was
looking for a musician and he showed up and played a little bar gig with
Manson and that he thought they played together o.k. and then he
stopped off
later at a party which might be what you say is
the spiral staircase.
Again if you haven't read his version of the
story he has a website at www.beausoleil.net/bobby.html
Scroll down to Interview by Michael Moynihan for seconds magazine.
It is a long
story. I found the part about Lt. Cally was being tried for the Mai Lai
massacres in vietnam at the same time as Manson interesting.
Sorry for the bad links to Bobby B. earlier.
On my webtv search it is bobby.html and
scroll down to 3. and there it is.
Charles Watson has a good website to that describes those days.
I was at a public library one time doing some surfing and I found a
website that had a picture
of Bobby B. and a girl standing naked outside somewhere... I don't know
how it got through the library filter but it did. LOL.
I was about to go on a trip to the MInnesota area and I was
looking on the net for Spirit Lake
when up pops something that looked like the
Folgers woman or that other family that was murdered
and was talking about how they had went on an enjoyable trip to Spirit
Lake. I was like HUHH?
Turns out there is a Spirit Lake in California too. The woman was
smiling and had her hair up in a bun. That caused me to do a search on
Manson and up pops a nude picture of
Bobby B. and a girl. LOL.
Salvadorwriter
>> > O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
>> > remember reading this anywhere, but do any
>> > of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
>> > [Charlie] Manson? ...
[Salvador]
>> Probably, but to my knowledge no one of
>> prominence has publicly stated that they did;
>> however, compelling circumstantial evidence
>> reveals a probable friendship or casual
>> acquaintance.... [see description below]
[Fast Talker]
> It is not surprising that any musicians in those
> days would meet other musicians. They were
> inventing or re-inventing Rock & Roll in the
> Bayarea and L.A.
Whether it's surprising or not is neither here
nor there. You asked a question, and I provided
an answer.
[Fast Talker]
> Before Helter Skelter, Manson was seen I think
> as an aspiring musician to others...
You mean, you actually believe the Helter Skelter
scenario? Read this:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/part2_darkforces.htm#Manson_vs_Bugliosi
Recently I discovered several pro-Manson websites.
He's quite a popular guy. And many of his supporters
seem like decent people who view him as a political
prisoner. Here's an interesting site:
[Fast Talker]
> Manson was seen I think as an aspiring musician
> to others...and Bobby [Beausoleil], things turned
> sour ( I think ) along the way. Bobby B. has a
> website with a lengthy bio written on it and the
> subject.
Yes, I looked at it in one of your other posts,
but it doesn't mention Arthur Lee or the rock group
Love. It has several broken links to interviews
with Beausoleil, but they don't go anywhere.
[Fast Talker]
> He said that he tried out for Love, I think they
> liked him but he was too young then....
Funny, I looked on the Beausoleil webpage you
mentioned, but I didn't see where he mentions
Love at all. Perhaps you can direct me to the
exact spot.
Anyway, you appear to be challenging the facts
I presented about Bobby Beausoleil playing
several gigs with Arthur Lee's pre-Love band,
The Grass Roots (not the well-known Grass Roots).
I got the information from veteran rock journalist
Barney Hoskyns care of his book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
Again Or", published by Mojo Books, Copyright
2001 by the author, ISBN 1841950855.
There aren't many books about Arthur Lee and Love,
even less about Bobby Beausoleil; but Hoskyns'
book is a real gem. Hoskyns has quite a resume
as a rock journalist, having written for Rolling
Stone, Harper's Bazar, Spin, The Guardian, the
Independent, was US Bureau Chief at MOJO Magazine,
and is presently editor of Rock's Backpages website:
http://www.rocksbackpages.com/
The following is an excerpt from Hoskyns' book
(Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or) where Hoskyns
quotes Bobby Beausoleil describing how he
played several gigs with Arthur Lee's band,
but was replaced by Byron MacLean because
of MacLean's business connections with the
Byrds:
==== [quote on] ====
[Byron] MacLean said that the band he saw was "a
black version of folk-rock." He told Lee he'd cut
off his arm to join. Lee acceded to MacLean's wishes,
but only after a few gigs with another serious
contender: future Manson Family murderer Bobby
Beausoleil, who would go on to form his own band,
The Chamber Orkustra, up in San Francisco (and,
later still, compose the music for Kenneth Anger's
infamous Lucifer Rising). "He was known as ‘Bummer
Bob'," recalled Arthur. "I never had anything
to do with him other than auditioning him. People
told me Manson used to come to my shows. I never
knew that.
Beausoleil remembered seeing The Grass Roots support
The Byrds, and he was desperate to join a band. "One
day I went to Arthur Lee and I told him I thought
he needed a rhythm guitar player in the band," he
remembered. "They were getting ready to play a gig
at a place called the Brave New World. It was a gay
bar, although they didn't know it at the time--or
at least I didn't. But it was a gig that Arthur
didn't expect to be attended that well, so he decided
I could get on stage with them. Arthur saw the
potential in having some pretty white guy in the
band, apart from the musical potential.
The first couple of nights we played there, it was
all gay. After I played a few sets over a few evenings,
I went up on the Strip one night on our break. I just
got tired of the situation--we were all tired of it,
we wanted an audience. So I went out on Sunset Strip
and told everybody; this is where it's happening, and
I gave out directions to the Brave New World. By the
time I got back to the club, people were already
starting to arrive, and between that set and the next,
the place was packed.
Bobby Beausoleil was in The Grass Roots when the Watts
race riots erupted in south-central LA in August
1965--riots which must have seemed particularly pertinent
to a "two-tone" band like the Roots. "We actually went
into Watts, because Arthur wanted to check on his mom,"
recalled Beausoleil. "We all drove down into there, and
it was really strange. There were military vehicles,
police out everywhere."
"Bummer Bob" maintained that when he took a quick trip
up to San Francisco, Lee brought in MacLean. "I went back
down to LA and found out that I'd been replaced in the
band, and the reason was that I was too young to play in
many of the clubs legally." MacLean, he said, took
advantage of his absence. Even so, Beausoleil made his
mark; according to him, the band's name change was
directly inspired by his own nickname, Cupid. "Just before
I went back to San Francisco I was at Ben Frank's on the
Strip, where the colorful people used to go for coffee
and cake and hang out. I was there by myself, getting
ready to leave, and...Arthur came in and sat down with me.
He told me that he'd decided to rename the band Love in
honor of me, alluding to the Cupid nickname that I had.
I felt honored. It kind of healed the hurt feelings."(1)
==== [quote off] ====
As I stated earlier, Vincent Bugliosi corroborated that
Beausoleil's nickname was in fact Cupid in Bugliosi's
famous book, Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson
Murders.(2)
If you do not accept the information Barney Hoskyns
presented in Barney Hoskyns' book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
Again Or," regarding Bobby Beausoleil playing several
gigs with Arthur Lee in 1965, and was seriously considered
for the rhythm guitar slot by Lee, then I would advise
you to contact Mr. Hoskyns via his website and present
your counter-arguments:
Rock's Back Pages; Barney Hoskyns, editor
http://www.rocksbackpages.com/
Thanks.
Salvador
SOURCES:
(1) Barney Hoskyns, Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or, pp. 22-24
(2) Vincent Bugliosi & Curt Gentry, Helter Skelter: The True
Story of the Manson Murders. Reference caption by photo of
Robert "Bobby" Beausoleil, in 64-page photo-collection midway
through book. The caption reads: "Robert 'Bobby' Beausoleil,"
aka Cupid, age 22...murderer." (Pages are not numbered in
the photo section.)
===== [original article] ====
Subject: Re: Did Jim Morrison know Charlie Manson?
From: salvado...@cs.com (Salvadorwriter)
Date: 5/20/04 2:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040520023955...@mb-m04.news.cs.com>
[CORRECTIONS]
[Fast Talker]
> O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
> remember reading this anywhere, but do any
> of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
> [Charlie] Manson? ...
Probably, but to my knowledge no one of prominence
has publicly stated that they did; however,
compelling circumstantial evidence reveals
a probable friendship or casual acquaintance.
- Canned Heat's drummer, Fito de la Parra, revealed
- Rock journalist/author, Barney Hoskyns, revealed
Manson claims he met Bobby Beausoleil at the Spiral
Staircase, so there appears to be a common thread
Fast Talker
>it doesn't mention Arthur Lee or the rock group
>Love. It has several broken links to interviews
>with Beausoleil, but they don't go anywhere.
>http://www.beausoleil.net/
I"m sorry that the links on the website are not working now. From what
you wrote I just thought that if you hadn't read that yet that you
would probably find it interesting and informative. I think the website
was formed by Bobby B.'s wife Barbara. I found that site while
websurfing several yrs ago and wanted to let you know of its existence.
If I can explains something to you about myself.
My life isn't about music and I am not really a fan of music. I am not
from California and I really don't need every outrageous fad from
California. Some people might think a dumb fad is worth getting shit all
over, but I know that I don't.
Fast Talker
>mentioned, but I didn't see where he mentions
>Love at all. Perhaps you can direct me to
>the exact spot.
Again I apologize, I kinda thought maybe you had already the Michael
Moyihan interview.
I vaguely remember what it said. Bobby B. said
he had bought a white Gibson SG guitar he use to practice around some
guitar shops and go to some of the bars to see the bands play. He said
that ( like you said ) auditioned for Love by saying he thought they
needed a rhythm guitar.
The band then was not Love. He said he always had a girlfriend or two in
those days and I think he said the first acid he took was with a girl he
met that was Sonny and Chers seamless. He said it was probably the best
acid on the planet and I forget the name of it.
He said it was a beautiful experience but he said he didn't really do
much acid because it wasn't
ever as good as that first time. I think he says
that is how drugs are. People spend the rest of the time chasing after
that first high. LSD was not Illegal then and he said that they really
didn't have anyone to say this drug is bad for you this s drug is good
for you.
Anyway he said he left his perfect Gibson
SG with Love and let that new guy borrow it
to play with the band and he left town to go somewhere with some people
and when he returned to get his guitar that guy who borrowed it had
scratched it all up.
Probably looked like a bad acid trip. LOL!
I can relate to that because when I was a teen ager I had a practically
new Brown SG myself
and my brother borrowed it and his doberman
pup chewed up the case and maybe he put a few scratches on it, but what
can you do? LOL!
Bobby B. also said he isn't or wasn't into people commercialising what
they were doing in those days... I don't know if they have any control
over
who reads the interviews, but maybe later you will be able to read his
version of those days.
Fast Talker
>own band, The Chamber Orkustra, up in San
>Francisco (and, later still, compose the music
>for Kenneth Anger's infamous Lucifer Rising).
>Arthur.
The Bobby B. interview said something about he lived with Kenneth Anger
for a while in San Francisco in a place they called the "Russian
Embassy" I think it was actually the Russian Embassy before Anger rented
it or bought it.
It showed a few pictures of it and him there
Kenneth Anger wrote a book about Hollywood
depicting stars who were screw ups. Decadence.
Charles Watson's wife has a website that talks about those things from a
Preachers viewpoint
Sex, Drugs, Rock & Roll, and the Occult isn't being on the right path.
Reverend!
Fast Talker
I wrote it as kinda a joke.
California has a music and film Industry that we know.
themissinglink
> I presented about Bobby Beausoleil playing
> several gigs with Arthur Lee's pre-Love band,
> The Grass Roots (not the well-known Grass Roots).
> I got the information from veteran rock journalist
> Barney Hoskyns care of his book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
> Again Or", published by Mojo Books, Copyright
> 2001 by the author, ISBN 1841950855.
I do remember that to be true, as I hung out at the World in the day.
I had never realized it was Bummer Bob that ended in jail with Manson.
Where have I been spaced?!
He was a basic character in the nightlife then. I believe I remember
he always had a beautiful big white husky type dog with him, and he
did jam with Arthur in after hours as well. I even think I vaguely
recall him passing through another classic character's house, the
beautiful Gretchen who was a raven haired beauty with I Ching and
smack.....I was at her house and believe if periphereal memory serves,
he passed through to score, and mention of the trip to SF also fell on
my ears. My focus was never concentrated on him other than he was one
of the pretty storybook characters on the Strip at that time, and I
certainly remember Brian determing to take the available throne in
Love. They indeed were the original Grass Roots first, (the better
known ones, were flaky next to these..) I do not know if the name
change thing is true, but it certainly could be. It was a small circle
of concentrated freaks at that time, and filled Canter's every night
around 2:30-4 in the morning as the final circus ring of the night
denizens. The characters would arrive to color the night, and everyone
was aware of everyone at that time.
Manson was never in the early days, and was a dark and oily wannabe as
far as I'm concerned. Not dark in the Jim sense of the word, but truly
negative. Had the worst vibes of anyone I've ever met the one time I
was introduced to him about a year before the serious shit began. I
sensed life and death danger in his presence, and certainly wasn't
colored by history or propoganda. He wasn't "heavy", just disturbed
with a real sense of evil clinging to him. I felt very much that I had
to manipulate an escape from danger and his presence.
(and I certainly was not naive or unaquainted with dark lords....this
was altogether different, and I was not surprised AT ALL when the
events unfolded.
So I definitely do not agree with the goofy innocence
speculation....he was seriously oppressed and oppressive, and without
symmetry. I was stunned at the captivity and goofiness of his group.
It was imbalanced and uncool.)
Fast Talker
stories. Manson was 35-37
yr.'s old then and hanging out with kids and was also used to doing hard
time. My guess is your friends might not have been convicts then who
wanted to stay in prison to begin with.
I've read that Manson was a cell mate of Barker who was formerly in
the hardest prison
in America Alcatraz. the Barker Death Valley Ranch was I think where
Manson was eventually arrested.
I thought that most people are aware that the Manson Family
committed some serious crime.
They are not really a good topic of conversation,
but there are allot of convicts out there.
Some people wonder how many people were killed then. The political
prisoner must be some more establishment talk. Alister Crowley's
motto "Do what thou Will."
All of that shit might work in the bands and in the movies, but it
is all a dead end street.
If you were a flower power kid then and you met Manson...unless you had
just returned from vietnam I would think you were unaccustomed to
the hard life that he was living.
Bobby B.'s website explains how bad prison
life is. Murders between mexican gangs are
nearly or were daily occurrences. Most teenagers are interested in doing
something else besides that. A grown man who isn't....
I think they say Manson had been arrested
before for being a Pimp. I've heard guys say that sometimes prostitutes
with pimps wll try to act
super sweet and super innocent. I don't know if any of those people
were prostitutes, but I think Manson sounded like a hardcore pimp.
Most people are not. Just because you read about convicts on
Billionaire Bill's invention doesn't mean San Quentin isn't what San
Quentin is. The wolves den.
Fast Talker
abused in the Ahab-Grai(sp) prison?
Mainstream America doesn't really relate to that.
Those films that Anger makes doesn't seem
very mainstream either. That Ahab-Graib prison shit is some wicked shit
isn't man?
Hey Maybe someold Nazi from Germany
is being financed to make as much stupid fuck you as he get his hands
on...
All of that Occult shit might really be the opposite
of how it is after a baptism. A dirty ASSHOLE!
I had wondered something about the Manson
family being a Jesus freak commune on acid.
Have you wondered what it would of been like to meet King David?
Did he live in a sewer under the city? or did he live like King
Solomon? A 1000 wives was a good round number? Mary Magdelene was
dumped off at Christ...she was a prostitute who use to travel with a
caravan. Jesus message was don't flip flop though... Maybe I can get
some of those cool california flip-flops to round
out my good book.LOL! could be a useful product...what the hell.
Fast Talker
been obliterated. That was something real good for the Jewish team then,
but I think they say Manson is Scottish.
I don't know to compare Manson to Braveheart or whatever that Mel
Gibson movie was...but that scottish guy Wallace got his guts ripped
out of him on the rack for rebelling against
the British thrown... is that the establisment?
Fast Talker
>dark and oily wannabe as far as I'm
>word, but truly negative.
MissingLink... One other story that was pecular
and I'm sorry I rambled off on a few of those other threads, In a book I
read where Manson
after getting out of prison somehow shows up
at a Rev. Dean Moorehouse's house and conns him somehow out of a piano
and then he (Manson) went and traded the piano for a VW
micro-bus. Later on Dean Moorehouse is hanging out with Manson and then
Watson at the Beach Boy's estate. How did such a person
as you describe do those things. I would think
a Rev. or the Beachoys (who were sons of a marine) could of picked up a
phone and called the law. Is it possible that Manson could be charming
if he wanted to be.
Why would a Rev. just give Manson a piano
or want him around? I guess we really don't get all the details. I seen
the Beach Boys play at Rice Stadium in Houston and some people
wold say they are a goofy uncool band, but
they sing GOOD-GOOD_GOOD....GOOD
vibrations. I've seen the Monsters of Rock
at Rice stadium with Van Halen, The Scorpions, and Metalica who could be
described as grungy
and bad-vibee quite the opposite...anyway this this is just all bullshit
to me... I got to go.
Pete
news:c3f7c1a8.0405...@posting.google.com:
This is so off topic - but so compelling.
Missing link - your 1st and 2nd hand insights to the scene at that time
are great.
Thank you.
Pete
PButler111
>From: salvado...@cs.com (Salvadorwriter)
>Date: 5/20/2004 1:22 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040520022205...@mb-m04.news.cs.com>
>
>[Fast Talker]
>> O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
>> remember reading this anywhere, but do any
>> of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
>> [Charlie] Manson? ...
>
>Probably, but to my knowledge no one has of prominence
>has publicly stated that Morrison and Manson knew
>each other, but there is compelling circumstantial
>that they did.
Yes, instead of just asking intelligent questions of people who were actually
there and knew the two of them, it's far, far better to simply sit here and
speculate your paranoid schizo ass off spewing out utter bullshit. MUCH
better!
Pete
Fast Talker
>of people who were actually there and knew the
>two of them, it's far, far better to simply sit here
>and speculate your paranoid schizo ass off
>spewing out utter bullshit. MUCH better!
I think salvadorwriter has presumed and made
a presumption that Jim Morrison had probably met, or seen Manson at
least once. Probably no big deal. You sound like anything posted as
a thread about your imaginary lover and Idol Jim,
who you seem to want all to yourself, offends you. I've allready read
Ray Manzarek s first
hand account....who needs you? You hypocrite!
Or are you Ray in disguise?
PButler111
>From: Fastt...@webtv.net (Fast Talker)
>Date: 5/23/2004 1:34 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <16160-40...@storefull-3211.bay.webtv.net>
Who the fuck are you and what the fuck are you talking about?
Fast Talker
the drug ecstasy was found at the Tate estate. I did not know that drug
existed then... it became publicised I
think in the late eighties as it was being banned
as a controlled substance... In 1969 it was Legal then...was this the
LOVE drug...the Love
band...the I had never heard of SUCH LOVE
before that those girls had for Manson?
Any lurkers know of its use then? or Was
it the Millionaire's knew of it then?
Fast Talker
live SNL again the Mango skit where no man can resist Mango at the
club. BOOOOOO!!!!!!!
PButler111
>Message-id: <16159-40B...@storefull-3211.bay.webtv.net>
>
>O.K. one more tidbit... I seen on Saturday night
>live SNL again the Mango skit where no man can resist Mango at the
>club. BOOOOOO!!!!!!!
I "seen" on this newsgroup that you're full of shit.
Salvadorwriter
>> Anyway, you appear to be challenging the facts
>> I presented about Bobby Beausoleil playing
>> several gigs with Arthur Lee's pre-Love band,
>> The Grass Roots (not the well-known Grass Roots).
>> I got the information from veteran rock journalist
>> Barney Hoskyns care of his book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
>> Again Or", published by Mojo Books, Copyright
>> 2001 by the author, ISBN 1841950855.
> I do remember that to be true, as I hung out at the
> World in the day. I had never realized it was Bummer
> Bob that ended in jail with Manson. Where have I been
With all due respect, why should we believe you really
knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of people on the Internet
make all kinds of claims. Everything you've stated are
merely opinions, not facts. And you've presented nothing
to corroborate you are what you claim.
Salvador
===== [earlier message ]====
Subject: Re: Did Jim Morrison know Charlie Manson?
From: salvado...@cs.com (Salvadorwriter)
Date: 5/22/04 3:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040522154253...@mb-m19.news.cs.com>
[Fast Talker]
>> > O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
>> > remember reading this anywhere, but do any
>> > of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
>> > [Charlie] Manson? ...
[Salvador]
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/part2_darkforces.htm#Manson_vs_Bugliosi
Yes, I looked at it in one of your other posts,
but it doesn't mention Arthur Lee or the rock group
Love. It has several broken links to interviews
with Beausoleil, but they don't go anywhere.
[Fast Talker]
> He said that he tried out for Love, I think they
> liked him but he was too young then....
Funny, I looked on the Beausoleil webpage you
mentioned, but I didn't see where he mentions
Love at all. Perhaps you can direct me to the
exact spot.
Anyway, you appear to be challenging the facts
I presented about Bobby Beausoleil playing
several gigs with Arthur Lee's pre-Love band,
The Grass Roots (not the well-known Grass Roots).
I got the information from veteran rock journalist
Barney Hoskyns care of his book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
Again Or", published by Mojo Books, Copyright
2001 by the author, ISBN 1841950855.
There aren't many books about Arthur Lee and Love,
even less about Bobby Beausoleil; but Hoskyns'
book is a real gem. Hoskyns has quite a resume
as a rock journalist, having written for Rolling
Stone, Harper's Bazar, Spin, The Guardian, the
Independent, was US Bureau Chief at MOJO Magazine,
and is presently editor of Rock's Backpages website:
http://www.rocksbackpages.com/
The following is an excerpt from Hoskyns' book
(Arthur Lee: Alone Again Or) where Hoskyns
quotes Bobby Beausoleil describing how he
played several gigs with Arthur Lee's band,
but was replaced by Byron MacLean because
of MacLean's business connections with the
Byrds:
==== [quote on] ====
[Byron] MacLean said that the band he saw was "a
black version of folk-rock." He told Lee he'd cut
off his arm to join. Lee acceded to MacLean's wishes,
but only after a few gigs with another serious
contender: future Manson Family murderer Bobby
Beausoleil, who would go on to form his own band,
The Chamber Orkustra, up in San Francisco (and,
later still, compose the music for Kenneth Anger's
Thanks.
Salvador
===== [original article] ====
Subject: Re: Did Jim Morrison know Charlie Manson?
From: salvado...@cs.com (Salvadorwriter)
Date: 5/20/04 2:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040520023955...@mb-m04.news.cs.com>
[CORRECTIONS]
[Fast Talker]
> O.K. I have a question for the group. I don't
> remember reading this anywhere, but do any
> of you think that Jim [Morrison] ever met
> [Charlie] Manson? ...
Probably, but to my knowledge no one of prominence
PButler111
>Message-id: <20040524011038...@mb-m26.news.cs.com>
Salvador -- apparently looking in a mirror, wearing his irony-proof suit,
actually wrote to someone else:
>With all due respect, why should we believe you really
>knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of people on the Internet
>make all kinds of claims. Everything you've stated are
>merely opinions, not facts. And you've presented nothing
>to corroborate you are what you claim.
Hey, Salvador! BACK AT YA, DUDE!
Salvadorwriter
>> With all due respect, why should we believe you [The
>> Missing Link] really knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of
>> people on the Internet make all kinds of claims. Everything
>> you've stated are merely opinions, not facts. And you've
>> presented nothing to corroborate you are what you claim.
[Pam Butler]
> Hey, Salvador! BACK AT YA, DUDE!
Everything I have presented in my book or in my Usenet
comments is verifiable. I cited newspaper articles, books,
I personally took photos of the Dakota (John Lennon's
home in New York). But I never claimed I knew any
famous person like Jim Morrison or Charlie Manson
personally. Missing Link's comments are highly
questionable. He's saying Manson was a scary person,
which is an opinion in the first place; but how do we know
he even saw him in person, or Beausoleil? Nothing
he stated is verifiable, therefore, he must be taken solely
at his word.
Salvador
PButler111
>> Hey, Salvador! BACK AT YA, DUDE!
>
>Everything I have presented in my book or in my Usenet
>comments is verifiable. I cited newspaper articles, books,
>I personally took photos of the Dakota (John Lennon's
>home in New York). But I never claimed I knew any
>famous person like Jim Morrison or Charlie Manson
>personally. Missing Link's comments are highly
>questionable. He's saying Manson was a scary person,
>which is an opinion in the first place; but how do we know
>he even saw him in person, or Beausoleil? Nothing
>he stated is verifiable, therefore, he must be taken solely
>at his word.
>
>Salvador
Nothing you've stated is "verifiable" either, including the "Pam Butler"
business.
Alexander DeLarge
>Nothing you've stated is "verifiable" either, including the "Pam Butler"
>business.
That's hilarious, Butler, except Salvador wasnt the one that called you "Pam",
it was another guy that said it, who might have meant it tongue in cheek
(sarcasm, like all humor, baffles you).
But I can see how someone would make a mistake with your name, since she is
just about the only subject you ever want to discuss (and the only Doors
related subject you seem to know anything about) ... and I can see how you
would confuse Salvador with the other person that posted, since pretty much
everyone here despises you and mocks you on a regular basis. Maybe you should
take notes from now on to keep em all straight. A bigshot "professional
writer" like you with a whole TWO (count em) TWO bargain bin books shouldnt
have a problem with that task.
Alexander DeLarge
>knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of people on the Internet
>make all kinds of claims. Everything you've stated are
>merely opinions, not facts. And you've presented nothing
>to corroborate you are what you claim.
I dont think its really that much of a stretch. Many people ran across the
trails of Charlie and co, and many people met Bobby Beausoleil. If Link knew
Morrison (as she claims quite credibly), then its certainly possible she could
have been acquainted with Beausoleil at some point (just as possible as
Morrison and Manson meeting, which I believe is VERY possible).
My ex-girlfriend's mom used to tell the story about how she met Charlie around
1968 and how he tried to get her to join up with the Family, and how persuasive
and magnetic he was (fortunately she turned down his offer). California was a
very active place in the 60s (northern AND southern) and lots of people met
lots of other people, some of whom went on to infamy.
Salvadorwriter
>>> Hey, Salvador! BACK AT YA, DUDE!
[Salvador]
>>Everything I have presented in my book or in my Usenet
>>comments is verifiable. I cited newspaper articles, books,
>>I personally took photos of the Dakota (John Lennon's
>>home in New York). But I never claimed I knew any
>>famous person like Jim Morrison or Charlie Manson
>>personally. Missing Link's comments are highly
>>questionable. He's saying Manson was a scary person,
>>which is an opinion in the first place; but how do we know
>>he even saw him in person, or Beausoleil? Nothing
>>he stated is verifiable, therefore, he must be taken solely
>>at his word.
[Pat Butler]
> Nothing you've stated is "verifiable" either....
Obviously one has to know how to read in order to verify
something, which leaves you out.
Salvadorwriter
>>With all due respect, why should we believe you really
>>knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of people on the Internet
>>make all kinds of claims. Everything you've stated are
>>merely opinions, not facts. And you've presented nothing
>>to corroborate you are what you claim.
[Alexander DeLarge]
> I dont think its really that much of a stretch....If Link knew
> Morrison (as she claims quite credibly), then its certainly
> possible she could have been acquainted with Beausoleil
> at some point (just as possible as Morrison and Manson
> meeting, which I believe is VERY possible).....
Sure, anything's possible. But I have to take "Link's"
comments with a grain of salt since I don't know her
from Adam. In fact, I didn't even know she was a she
until you mentioned it. She may be a nice person, but
she presented extremely vague information that
cannot be verified. No serious researcher would
take the word of someone like that, someone he/she
met on a Usenet discussion group. There's nothing
personal, but assuming the US Government sponsored
the murders of Tate, et al, as I believe, don't you
think they'd have people posting responses to
people like me who occasionally look at the crime
more closely? I'm not accusing Link of doing this
because, again, I don't know Link from Adam.
But one has to be careful with people who claim
to have first-hand relationships with famous
people, particularly if you met these people via
Usenet.
Unless I've met a so-called witness, I generally
don't like to use their accounts, unless they've
been published somewhere. Then it becomes more
verifiable. I can quote the person's comments,
cite where I got the comment in an end note,
and move on.
Internet discussion groups sometimes can point
me in the right direction, but I generally regard
specific comments as hearsay, and therefore,
something I don't want to use.
PButler111
>something, which leaves you out.
>
>Salvador
Wow -- snappy comeback! What's the matter, was "soze yer muther" unavailable?
Get a life, you paranoid lunatic.
PButler111
>comments with a grain of salt since I don't know her
>from Adam. In fact, I didn't even know she was a she
>until you mentioned it. She may be a nice person, but
>she presented extremely vague information that
>cannot be verified. No serious researcher would
>take the word of someone like that, someone he/she
>met on a Usenet discussion group.
Are you kidding me with this shit? Who the fuck are you that anyone would take
your word for anything? You come here hiding under an alias, spouting all
kinds of hackneyed, paranoid, X-Files bullshit, and then you turn around and
give lectures on research credibility? You're in serious need of a reality
check. In fact, go check yourself in for the whole program.
Salvadorwriter
>> Sure, anything's possible. But I have to take "Link's"
>> comments with a grain of salt since I don't know her
>> from Adam. In fact, I didn't even know she was a she
>> until you mentioned it. She may be a nice person, but
>> she presented extremely vague information that
>> cannot be verified. No serious researcher would
>> take the word of someone like that, someone he/she
>> met on a Usenet discussion group.
[Pat Butler]
> Who...are you that anyone would take your word for
> anything?....
No one has to take my word for anything because I
never provided eye-witness accounts of anything
substantial in my books. The facts I present are verifiable,
whereas, Link's comments about meeting Bobby
Beausoleil and Charlie Manson are tantamount
to eye-witness testimony. In a courtroom, opposing
lawyers can destroy someone's eye-witness testimony
by discrediting the witness. On the other hand, if a lawyer
presents verifiable evidence, then it doesn't matter where
the evidence came from, so long as it can be verified.
For example, I cited two New York Times articles which
stated several facts about John Lennon's murder. It doesn't
matter what you think of me personally because the cited
NYT articles will say the same thing regardless of your
opinion of me. On the other hand, if I can show that
Link has a history of telling tall tales, then all of her
comments about Manson and Beausoleil would have
to be disregarded. But since I don't know anything
about Link, I will just take her comments with a grain
of salt. Anyone who knows her personally can do
otherwise. Just don't expect everyone else to believe
her comments at face value.
PButler111
>Message-id: <20040524191643...@mb-m04.news.cs.com>
So I guess you post under a phony name because you're so extremely proud of
your history of journalistic integrity, right? Right.
themissinglink
> [Salvador]
> >> Anyway, you appear to be challenging the facts
> >> I presented about Bobby Beausoleil playing
> >> several gigs with Arthur Lee's pre-Love band,
> >> The Grass Roots (not the well-known Grass Roots).
> >> I got the information from veteran rock journalist
> >> Barney Hoskyns care of his book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
> >> Again Or", published by Mojo Books, Copyright
> >> 2001 by the author, ISBN 1841950855.
> [Missing Link]
> > I do remember that to be true, as I hung out at the
> > World in the day. I had never realized it was Bummer
> > Bob that ended in jail with Manson. Where have I been
> > spaced?! ....
>
> With all due respect, why should we believe you really
> knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of people on the Internet
> make all kinds of claims. Everything you've stated are
> merely opinions, not facts. And you've presented nothing
> to corroborate you are what you claim.
>
> Salvador
>
Actually, with no intent on reaching into any kind of defense, I NEVER
said I knew Bummer Bob, other than passing in the night on an
occasion, and knowing his presence among the characters on the Strip
and at Ben Franks and Canter's which was a selective public display
that anyone hanging out at that time would have noted. I did not hang
out or know him. He was not among my circle of friends. I hung out
with Elliot Ingber a lot, however, who was rhythm guitar in the
original Mother's of Invention, who I also met at the World as they
were among the group's who played to the underground in that scenario.
Arthur Lee played there a lot as well as at Bido Lito's. Elliot left
the Mother's and formed the Fraternity of Man and wrote "Don't Bogart
that Joint, My Friend".... and was an afficianado of the late night
Circus. There was a very colorful cast of characters at that time, and
what I said was they all went bump in the night.
themissinglink
> >> Anyway, you appear to be challenging the facts
> >> I presented about Bobby Beausoleil playing
> >> several gigs with Arthur Lee's pre-Love band,
> >> The Grass Roots (not the well-known Grass Roots).
> >> I got the information from veteran rock journalist
> >> Barney Hoskyns care of his book, "Arthur Lee: Alone
> >> Again Or", published by Mojo Books, Copyright
> >> 2001 by the author, ISBN 1841950855.
> [Missing Link]
> > I do remember that to be true, as I hung out at the
> > World in the day. I had never realized it was Bummer
> > Bob that ended in jail with Manson. Where have I been
> > spaced?! ....
>
> With all due respect, why should we believe you really
> knew Bobby Beausoleil? Lots of people on the Internet
> make all kinds of claims. Everything you've stated are
> merely opinions, not facts. And you've presented nothing
> to corroborate you are what you claim.
>
> Salvador
>
PS----sorry I left that Elliot link drift off, I mentioned him because
I know he jammed with him and Arthur in afterhour riffs that were
pretty standard exercise for the restless and compulsive musicians.
Not constantly the same combos, but the consummate and driven blues
guitar, which was TOTALLY Elliot, would always find compadres willing
to jam till dawn. (He ended up in Captain Beefheart after Fraternity
disbanded. He was one of my very dearest friends, and always
disapproved of my "fraternizing" with Jim whom he thought of as
basically a punk. There were very diverse strains in all the offerings
at that time, and I liked to move through numerous cross currents just
because.
(as for trying to help you research, I was not in anyway moving into
that posture. It was just an amusing thread, and those who have
suffered my random ramblings here over the years, are rather a Dream
Team I enjoy tossing rose petals to at odd times when the stream is
flowing along in a way that strikes my consciousness. Very
undisciplined as all will attest. I am a witness and representative of
the "damage done" I suppose.)
...with all due respect........................link
Pete
news:20040524191643...@mb-m04.news.cs.com:
> [Salvador]
>....... I will just take her comments with a grain
> of salt. Anyone who knows her personally can do
> otherwise. Just don't expect everyone else to believe
> her comments at face value.
>
> Salvador
>
>
Salvador, this isn't a court of law - its a conversation. Mostly, the
contributions here are subjective and as such we all make our own
judgments about how well informed those contributins are.
You're absolutely right that weirdos making unverifiable and often false
claims are characteristic of newsgroups and the internet in general. But
it is also true that because of the global nature of the internet - we
get a very diverse set of points of view - many of which we are
unfamiliar with.
I too would like to see a little more corroboration to the contributions
here - not because I don't trust or respect the contributors - I'd just
like a fuller picture.
..and a bit less sniping would be good too.
Specialise in having fun.
Pete
Salvadorwriter
>>>> Sure, anything's possible. But I have to take "Link's"
>>>> comments with a grain of salt since I don't know her
>>>> from Adam. In fact, I didn't even know she was a she
>>>> until you mentioned it. She may be a nice person, but
>>>> she presented extremely vague information that
>>>> cannot be verified. No serious researcher would
>>>> take the word of someone like that, someone he/she
>>>> met on a Usenet discussion group.
[Pat Butler]
>>> Who...are you that anyone would take your word for
>>> anything?....
[Salvador]
>>No one has to take my word for anything because I
>>never provided eye-witness accounts of anything
>>substantial in my books. The facts I present are verifiable,
>>whereas, Link's comments about meeting Bobby
>>Beausoleil and Charlie Manson are tantamount
>>to eye-witness testimony. In a courtroom, opposing
>>lawyers can destroy someone's eye-witness testimony
>>by discrediting the witness. On the other hand, if a lawyer
>>presents verifiable evidence, then it doesn't matter where
>>the evidence came from, so long as it can be verified.
>>For example, I cited two New York Times articles which
>>stated several facts about John Lennon's murder. It doesn't
>>matter what you think of me personally because the cited
>>NYT articles will say the same thing regardless of your
>>opinion of me. On the other hand, if I can show that
>>Link has a history of telling tall tales, then all of her
>>comments about Manson and Beausoleil would have
>>to be disregarded. But since I don't know anything
>>about Link, I will just take her comments with a grain
>>of salt. Anyone who knows her personally can do
>>otherwise. Just don't expect everyone else to believe
>>her comments at face value.
[Pat Butler]
> So I guess you post under a phony name because
> you're so extremely proud of your history of
> journalistic integrity, right? Right.
I am not a journalist and I am not the first writer to
use a pseudonym. I use it mainly because I write
openly about Jewish Nationalism (aka, Zionism)
and various aspects of Judaism, the religion and
the culture. America is ruled by a Zionist Occupied
Government and anyone who criticizes it must
do so from the shadows. In many ways America
is more oppressive than the Soviet Union ever
was.
Now I've got a question for you.
Do you sell your body on the street corner,
or are you strictly a Usenet whore?
PButler111
>> So I guess you post under a phony name because
>> you're so extremely proud of your history of
>> journalistic integrity, right? Right.
>
>I am not a journalist and I am not the first writer to
>use a pseudonym. I use it mainly because I write
>openly about Jewish Nationalism (aka, Zionism)
>and various aspects of Judaism, the religion and
>the culture. America is ruled by a Zionist Occupied
>Government and anyone who criticizes it must
>do so from the shadows. In many ways America
>is more oppressive than the Soviet Union ever
>was.
And there's also the small matter of you being a complete nutter who
periodically squats on newsgroups and spends months spamming them with your
bullshit until someone finally gets fed up and posts your real name, address
and phone number in order to get rid of you. This has happened to you several
times over the years, in many, many newsgroups. Running out of people to
annoy?
>Now I've got a question for you.
>
>Do you sell your body on the street corner,
>or are you strictly a Usenet whore?
>
>Salvador
And this was supposed to make you appear more credible... how, exactly?
Salvadorwriter
>>....... I will just take her comments with a grain
>> of salt. Anyone who knows her personally can do
>> otherwise. Just don't expect everyone else to believe
>> her comments at face value.
[Pete]
>Salvador, this isn't a court of law
Quite obvious.
> - its a conversation.
> Mostly, the contributions here are subjective and as such
> we all make our own judgments about how well informed
> those contributins are.
>
> You're absolutely right that weirdos making unverifiable
> and often false claims are characteristic of newsgroups
> and the internet in general. But it is also true that because
> of the global nature of the internet - we get a very diverse
> set of points of view - many of which we are unfamiliar with.
Sounds like you're more interested in a feel-good
discussion than worrying about trivial things like
verifiable facts.
> I too would like to see a little more corroboration to the
> contributions here
But that's not what you've been promoting.
> - not because I don't trust or respect the contributors
> - I'd just like a fuller picture.
I never said not to respect Ms. Link. I don't know her
enough to dislike her.
>..and a bit less sniping would be good too.
>
>Specialise in having fun.
Who are you, Pat's older brother? (I mean that in the
spirit of fun.)
Pete
> Sounds like you're more interested in a feel-good
> discussion than worrying about trivial things like
> verifiable facts.
That's right. Although interesting and stimulating conversation rather
than just feel good.
>
>> I too would like to see a little more corroboration to the
>> contributions here
>
> But that's not what you've been promoting.
I'm not promoting anything Salvo. And I'm not having a snipe at you
either. I'm actually agreeing with you.
>
> I never said not to respect Ms. Link. I don't know her
> enough to dislike her.
Please - you misunderstand me.
>
>>..and a bit less sniping would be good too.
>>
>>Specialise in having fun.
>
> Who are you, Pat's older brother? (I mean that in the
> spirit of fun.)
lol
Salvadorwriter
>>> So I guess you post under a phony name because
>>> you're so extremely proud of your history of
>>> journalistic integrity, right? Right.
[Salvador]
>>I am not a journalist and I am not the first writer to
>>use a pseudonym. I use it mainly because I write
>>openly about Jewish Nationalism (aka, Zionism)
>>and various aspects of Judaism, the religion and
>>the culture. America is ruled by a Zionist Occupied
>>Government and anyone who criticizes it must
>>do so from the shadows. In many ways America
>>is more oppressive than the Soviet Union ever
>>was.
[Pat Butler]
> And there's also the small matter of you being a
> complete.....<real nasty talk>...Running out of
> people to annoy?
You're a funny character, Pat, Pam, or whatever
the Hell your name is. Now I don't mean to insult
you, really I don't. But are you a man or a
woman? (This is a discussion group, it's
hard to tell.) Being a newbie on this newsgroup,
I had assumed you were a man at first because I've
never known a woman to be so filthy. Then
someone started calling you Pam, and I thought,
Hey, this filthy guy is really a chick. I guess
anything's possible. Must be a fat chick with
an attitude.
When I asked the following question, I assumed
you were a vulgar loose woman:
>>Now I've got a question for you.
>>
>>Do you sell your body on the street corner,
>>or are you strictly a Usenet whore?
Apparently the gender issue is what got you so
upset. If you're a man, you probably wouldn't
sell your body on a street corner, and I'm
sorry for making that suggestion. But come
on, it's obvious you're a Usenet whore.
themissinglink
Well, I guess I was being lazy not to build a little clearer if I'm
going to stir the water with my intrusion. The only reason I ever
ended up walking through that mess, was that in high school, Uni High
to be exact, there were very few people yet into drugs, so those of us
who were, knew each other easily. Patty Krenwinkle was a classmate and
fellow drug abuser, as was David Crosby's girlfriend Beth. We went to
Hollywood together for a period of time. I dropped out of school to
work at the World and give myself to overindulgence.
After a period of time, I got a terrible kidney infection and my
father told me he would help me with medical if I would graduate via
summer school, so I went back to Samohi (Santa Monica) where my old
best friend Beverly and I continued in drugs. I had gone to Samohi
earlier than Uni High (divorce swapmeet boogie woogie) and there was a
period where Bev and Patty and I hung out. Never saw either of them
again for several years.
One day I bumped into Bev, who I was closest to in school, and she
said that lo and behold she had had a communication from Patty to come
see her commune in Topanga Canyon, and Bev wanted me to accompany her.
In the name of catching up on her doings and for Auld Lang Syne, I
agreed. What followed chilled me to the bone, and I ended up
maneuvering myself and Bev-- (who didn't really notice anything
wrong,) so I had to subtley get her out of there with me with careful
calculation. I was truly and deeply aware there was real evil in
Charlie's heart and I felt real dread but also impotence to do
anything for Patty who was Katie by this time.
The really weird thing, was that while in SF I had worked topless in
North Beach on occasion(which was a crazy "harmless" way hippie girls
made easy money intermittently at the time) and Susie Atkins was one
of the dancers. She wanted me to room with her, which I did for about
two weeks, but I left with an unshakeable feeling about her massive
insecurity & imbalance being bound for serious trouble. So it was
truly weird to see her there as well as Sadie.
As I said, it was a very small world at that time with wheels spinning
within wheels. It was a mere fleeting glimpse into that corner, but
was all I ever wished to endure. I dropped a startled Beverly off to
her home, after encouraging her to never go back there again, and
never saw any of them again, including Bev. They seemed a million
miles away from my world at that point in a swirl of my own
psychedelphia.
Hope that helps. It's all just an aside, as my main address and
attention in those days was strictly Hollywood in its deepest
entrails. And as I said.... Jim's darkness had depth and articulation
compared to the assymetrical and discordant murkiness and oiliness I
felt in Manson. Jim was a class act...charlie was low life.
PButler111
(That's "Salvador's" real name -- David.) By the way, fascinating all this
insight you pretend to have about The Doors when your entire base of knowledge
about the band is the fact that you read NOHGOA 7 months ago. But you never
let actual facts get in the way of your constant spouting, do you?
From: TAR (tom....@ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Salvadorwriter won't give up ( Was Re: blah, blah, blah)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Date: 2004-05-16 12:06:37 PST
Salvadorwriter wrote:
>
> The exchange below is a discussion about the
> following article:
> I [Salvador] commented that I saw George Harrison's
> Jewish physician, Dr. Gilbert Lederman (the subject
> of the article above), on the TV news shortly after
> George passed away in late 2001....<snip>
I [Donna] think that Salvadorwriter is going too far with this stupid
nonsense, and I'd be very happy if he'd just go away.
From: Beatlology (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Salvadorwriter
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Date: 2003-08-09 19:42:05 PST
You're such a waste of time...
Posting a few thoughts is fine, making it a career is just plain sad.
You've made it to my kill file.
From: AH-64 (the...@ss.mil)Subject: Salvadorwriter <-------piece of shit
Newsgroups: alt.religion.islamDate: 2003-03-23 11:22:25 PST "Salvadorwriter"
<salvado...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20030323133618...@mb-mr.news.cs.com...
>
> Advice for peace activists:
<snip crap>
From: .Tna Yzarc!.. (heb...@helle.co.ukkllk)Subject: Salvadorwriter FUCK OFF
AND STOP SPAMMING YOU ASSHOLE........ Re: Jose Perdomo, doorman or security
guard? Newsgroups: rec.music.beatlesDate: 2003-06-15 15:49:52 PST
"Salvadorwriter" <salvado...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20030615182505...@mb-m25.news.cs.com...
> Recently someone stated that Jose Perdomo
> (the guy guarding the entrance to the Dakota the night
> John Lennon was killed) should be held accountable
> since his job was to guard the tenants of the Dakota.
>
> What do you think?
i think you're a pathetic stupid cunt and you should go back to fucking your
mom.
Pete
> fucking your mom.
LOL
Long live the internet
I think I'm going to use this as my signature.
LOL
The Passion
>and give myself to overindulgence.
I remember one time going to 6th street in Austin where the clubs are
many yrs. ago.
I was just out alone and people watching a bit
(seeing what they do)...and I had my walkman
headphones on listening to the radio.
I walked through a shop that turned out to be a S&M store full of
Leather whips and etc.
(I didn't buy any)...and a song came on I think it
goes....LOVE...MY....WAY...its a New World.
I...FOLLOW...were my mind goes....and I thought about "Tex" Watson then
( I had read his book ) and I walked out of the store (I wasn't
intimidated or underage then ) and the colorful lights and the kids were
out and a small tree was in front of the store...I walked down the
street and I saw a guy who kinda looked Mansonish and from the
'6o's...he looked
homeless and was sitting alone in a doorway
of a closed down store.
The situation reminded me of that and I guess people are still
making music from what
ya'lls days then. The timing was strange and maybe was sorta like the
story books about all of that goes.
I think the rich kids out among all of that
might be having more fun than the homeless,
but like the LINK said I realized that the people who were out there
were probably strippers
and common people. Not UT students.
A UT man probably has allot more woo
than the homeless people who are living on the streets of Austin. I
allways thought of Malibu
and Beverly Hills people to be snobs...they really don't just cave in to
living on the streets
like some people do.
The Passion
where am was probably ...IF YOU BELIEVE
IN THINGS THAT YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND!......superstiton aint the way.
I'm not from your World has just taking on New
meaning.
Salvadorwriter
> I see they think pretty highly of you on other newsgroups
> to have about The Doors when your entire base of
> knowledge about the band is the fact that you read
> NOHGOA 7 months ago. But you never let actual facts
> get in the way of your constant spouting, do you?
[the following rec.music.beatles article was posted by Pat Butler]
> From: .Tna Yzarc!.. (heb...@helle.co.ukkllk)
> Subject: Salvadorwriter FUCK OFF AND STOP
> SPAMMING YOU ASSHOLE........ Re: Jose Perdomo,
> doorman or security guard?
> Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
> Date: 2003-06-15 15:49:52 PST
> news:20030615182505...@mb-m25.news.cs.com...
[Salvador]
>> Recently someone stated that Jose Perdomo
>> (the guy guarding the entrance to the Dakota the night
>> John Lennon was killed) should be held accountable
>> since his job was to guard the tenants of the Dakota.
>>
>> What do you think?
[.Tna Yzarc!]
> i think you're a pathetic stupid cunt and you should go
> back to fucking your mom.
=== END OF MESSAGE ===
See response on a new thread entitled
"Jose Perdomo, John Lennon & the Internet Police"
The Passion
now... If YOU BELIEVE IN THINGS...that YOU
DON'T UNDERSTAND...you can SUFFER!!!
superstition aint the way... LOL!
Some of those preppies are into that other tune... LOVE...MY...WAY...its
isit a new road
or a New World. LOL!
Alexander DeLarge
>now... If YOU BELIEVE IN THINGS...that YOU
>DON'T UNDERSTAND...you can SUFFER!!!
>superstition aint the way... LOL!
Actually, Stevie Ray borrowed them from Stevie Wonder. :-D