Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up'
b...@sonicnet.com
***Check out Addicted To Noise's
Music News of the World today! ***
Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
"Following the lead of the mega-chain Wal-Mart, whose 2,337 stores pulled
the album on Friday, and protests from the National Organization for
Women, Kmart's 2,150 U.S. stores pulled their 7,000 copies of the album
over the weekend"
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Rhodri
<b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> Music News of the World today! ***
>
> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the other
way round. What an arse.
--
rhodri
"I've always thought that you were a complete fuck" (Dylan Moran)
Edward Henigin
So NOW thinks that women are bitches?
I mean, they wouldn't think it applied to women unless *they*
equated bitches to women.
right?
:)
--
In alt.music.techno b...@sonicnet.com wrote:
: "Following the lead of the mega-chain Wal-Mart, whose 2,337 stores pulled
ou1
In the immortal words of Charles Babbit (Rainman)
"yeah, K-mart sucks, definitely sucks, yeah"
Maybe K-mart should stop selling GUNS to criminals and all the Gangsta's
out there....oops, I guess that's not a fucking problem; dead kids? silly ol
me
"K-mart is gonna clean up this here town"....and Music must be a real problem
if they are going to censor it..... FUCK K-mart even if it is Prodigy......
"yeah, K-Mart sucks"
b...@sonicnet.com wrote:
> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> Music News of the World today! ***
>
> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
>
> "Following the lead of the mega-chain Wal-Mart, whose 2,337 stores pulled
> the album on Friday, and protests from the National Organization for
> Women, Kmart's 2,150 U.S. stores pulled their 7,000 copies of the album
> over the weekend"
>
Water Trees
Rhodri wrote:
> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
--> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
--> Music News of the World today! ***
--> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the other
> way round. What an arse.
Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
It's still today here.
There's a reason we do things this way...
--
Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or Wednesday there?
----------------------------------------------------------
| The writer of this message may not be held responsible |
| for anything whatsoever. It's all Aaron Henne's fault. |
----------------------------------------------------------
Water Trees
Water Trees wrote:
> Rhodri wrote:
--> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
----> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
----> Music News of the World today! ***
----> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
--> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
--> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the
--> other way round. What an arse.
> Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
> It's still today here.
> There's a reason we do things this way...
I take that back. It's today now. Of course, you in California might
disagree.
> --
> Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
> just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or Wednesday there?
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> | The writer of this message may not be held responsible |
> | for anything whatsoever. It's all Aaron Henne's fault. |
> ----------------------------------------------------------
--
Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
still awaiting the answer to that Tuesday/Wednesday question...
Dave
Water Trees wrote:
>
> Water Trees wrote:
>
> > Rhodri wrote:
>
> --> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
>
> ----> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> ----> Music News of the World today! ***
>
> ----> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
>
> --> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
>
> --> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the
> --> other way round. What an arse.
>
> > Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
> > It's still today here.
> > There's a reason we do things this way...
>
> I take that back. It's today now. Of course, you in California might
> disagree.
>
> > --
> > Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
> > just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or Wednesday there?
everywhere? it's wednesday the 10th in england, anyway...
---
dave
living in the future, dreaming of the past... (or something)
Arsenic
Dave wrote:
> Water Trees wrote:
--> Water Trees wrote:
----> Rhodri wrote:
------> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
--------> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
--------> Music News of the World today! ***
--------> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
------> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
------> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the
------> other way round. What an arse.
----> Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
----> It's still today here.
----> There's a reason we do things this way...
--> I take that back. It's today now. Of course, you in California might
--> disagree.
----> --
----> Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
----> just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or Wednesday
----> there?
> what kinda weird question is that? aren't days on the same dates
> everywhere? it's wednesday the 10th in england, anyway...
Not any more, it's not - but it is here. Weird.
--
Lewis Bateman(*)mhm 15x11(*)lbateman*hotmail.com
,---.,--.,---.
/,-. (\ /) ,-.\
) >}{< (
\`-" (/ \) `-"/
`---"`--"`---"
Dave
Rocky wrote:
>
> Arsenic <nos...@D8C.co.ig> wrote:
>
> +>Dave wrote:
> +>
> +>> Water Trees wrote:
> +>
> +>--> Water Trees wrote:
> +>
> +>----> Rhodri wrote:
> +>
> +>------> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
> +>
> +>--------> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> +>--------> Music News of the World today! ***
> +>
> +>--------> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
> +>
> +>------> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
> +>
> +>------> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the
> +>------> other way round. What an arse.
> +>
> +>----> Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
> +>----> It's still today here.
> +>----> There's a reason we do things this way...
> +>
> +>--> I take that back. It's today now. Of course, you in California might
> +>--> disagree.
> +>
> +>----> --
> +>----> Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
> +>----> just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or Wednesday
> +>----> there?
> +>> what kinda weird question is that? aren't days on the same dates
> +>> everywhere? it's wednesday the 10th in england, anyway...
> +>
> +>Not any more, it's not - but it is here. Weird.
>
> Its now the 11/12/97 or so the yanks can understand 11th December 1997
can we please not make this an interesting thread where someone posts
the date every day? it'd get kinda boring after the first year or so...
:)
---
dave
11/12/97 (uk stylee) - 12/11/97 (for the lovely people over the pond) ;)
Bart Lateur
rho...@gyoker.demon.co.you-kay (Rhodri) wrote:
>12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
>
>I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the other
>way round. What an arse.
No matter how I look at these sentences, I can't interpret this in any
other way.
In that last sentence, you're talking about yourself.
Bart.
Rhodri
Bart Lateur <bart.me...@tornado.be> wrote:
> >12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on, pal?
> >
> >I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their dates the other
> >way round. What an arse.
>
> No matter how I look at these sentences, I can't interpret this in any
> other way.
>
> In that last sentence, you're talking about yourself.
yep. full marks.
nothing wrong with a bit of self criticism
Praetorius
Kmart sucks the big one, they are living in the 50's, but oh well, why would
i shop at Kmart, if i want music, i go to a music store, where they dont ban
music because it is offensive, god, if you find something offensive, just
dont buy it, its that simple
Cybervoid
>"Following the lead of the mega-chain Wal-Mart, whose 2,337 stores pulled
>the album on Friday, and protests from the National Organization for
>Women, Kmart's 2,150 U.S. stores pulled their 7,000 copies of the album
>over the weekend"
It's funny, my little brother bought his copy of the CD at K-Mart. The
words on the back case were censored, that's the only problem they had then,
what's the big deal now is all I ask?
--
LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone who sends me unsolicited commercial e-mail
will be charged a $500 proofreading fee. Consider this official
notification. Failure to abide by this will result in legal action.
Pursuant to US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/
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Sec.227(b)(3)(C) states that a violation of the aforementioned
Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss,
or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation.
Eat that, spam! PLEASE copy this and paste it to your sig card.
JackieBlue
Praetorius wrote:
> god, if you find something offensive, just
> dont buy it, its that simple
If you find something offensive, don't sell it. It's that simple.
K-Mart and Wal-Mart are PRIVATE BUSINESSES. Freedom of expression works
both ways, you know. Prodigy have every right to make an album with the
lyric "smach my bitch up", and by the same token, any private
organization has every right to refuse to carry it.
It may be silly, but it's their choice. I find it much more offensive
that such stores refuse to carry albums released on indie or even
quasi-indie (such as Matador) labels.
--
Rev. Jack Godsey - rental messiah, slam poet, noko.
http://members.tripod.com/~spill/index.html
now playing: Weezer "Tired of Sex"
Arsenic
Dave wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
--> Arsenic <nos...@D8C.co.ig> wrote:
----> Dave wrote:
------> Water Trees wrote:
--------> Water Trees wrote:
----------> Rhodri wrote:
------------> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
--------------> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
--------------> Music News of the World today! ***
--------------> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up',
--------------> 12/9/97
------------> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on,
------------> pal?
------------> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their
------------> dates the other way round. What an arse.
----------> Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
----------> It's still today here.
----------> There's a reason we do things this way...
--------> I take that back. It's today now. Of course, you in California
--------> might disagree.
----------> --
----------> Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
----------> just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or
----------> Wednesday there?
------> what kinda weird question is that? aren't days on the same dates
------> everywhere? it's wednesday the 10th in england, anyway...
----> Not any more, it's not - but it is here. Weird.
--> Its now the 11/12/97 or so the yanks can understand 11th December
--> 1997
> can we please not make this an interesting thread where someone posts
> the date every day? it'd get kinda boring after the first year or
> so... :)
> ---
> dave
> 11/12/97 (uk stylee) - 12/11/97 (for the lovely people over the pond)
> ;)
12/12/97 - 12/12/97. And all this while, you thought we wrote the date
differently over here. :-)
Binky, the performing seal
On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:00:11 -0500, JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com>
wrote:
>If you find something offensive, don't sell it. It's that simple.
That's FASCISM kid!
>K-Mart and Wal-Mart are PRIVATE BUSINESSES. Freedom of expression works
>both ways, you know. Prodigy have every right to make an album with the
>lyric "smach my bitch up", and by the same token, any private
>organization has every right to refuse to carry it.
Sure, but is it not a short step from there to banning
politically-opinionated records by Gays, non-whites, and any other
minority group that a government 9or nosy religious nuts) could
consider "offensive" or even just "unamerican"?
>It may be silly, but it's their choice. I find it much more offensive
>that such stores refuse to carry albums released on indie or even
>quasi-indie (such as Matador) labels.
The CORRECT thing to do with these records is to have an "ADULT"
section in record shops, where these things are openly in sale, but
with a sticker saying it contains lyrics that may offend some
listeners. Physically denying punters the product is both fascist and
stupid; I instantly make a note of these places that ban things and
refuse to buy records from there, and anyone who wants the record
anyway just has to take a short walk to somwhere that DOES sell it.
If it offends you, I'm sorry about that, but freedom of speech is a
right that most Americans don't even realise they have, and are all
too willing to give up without a fight.
I'm not really a big fan of the Prodigy, but I think if it were a
record by white suburban American men, it wouldn't get banned so
quickly. The fact that it's a record made by a multi-racial band from
England has a lot more to do with it, I think you'll find.
Think on....
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
BEN
Who gives a fuck anyway? The Prodigy et al probably paid k-mart to take
it off the shelf since this is *exactly* the type of "stink" they hoped
to cause when it was written & recorded. Shows their 'original' fans
how "hard core" they are, y'see. Also shows them how much they like
their money. :)
BEN
Bart Lateur
"Cybervoid" <Cyber...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>It's funny, my little brother bought his copy of the CD at K-Mart. The
>words on the back case were censored, that's the only problem they had then,
>what's the big deal now is all I ask?
Well, I think that by now, somebody at K-Mart has *listened* to the
track.
Bart.
fnord
In article <3491041...@news.demon.co.uk>,
Binky, the performing seal <Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:00:11 -0500, JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com>
>wrote:
>>If you find something offensive, don't sell it. It's that simple.
>That's FASCISM kid!
No...thats called running your business the way you see fit...K-Mart
and Wal-Mart have no duty whatsoever to sell a product they don't deem
worthy to be on their shelves...I'm not saying it doesn't suck or that
it's not stupid...but its their right...
On the same token I wouldn't hold it against you if some new book
supporting racism or other hate crimes came out and you decided not to
stock your shelves with it...
>>K-Mart and Wal-Mart are PRIVATE BUSINESSES. Freedom of expression works
>>both ways, you know. Prodigy have every right to make an album with the
>>lyric "smach my bitch up", and by the same token, any private
>>organization has every right to refuse to carry it.
>Sure, but is it not a short step from there to banning
>politically-opinionated records by Gays, non-whites, and any other
>minority group that a government 9or nosy religious nuts) could
>consider "offensive" or even just "unamerican"?
I think you are a bit too paranoid for your own good...unless K-Mart
and Wal-Mart suddenly become the only places where cds can be
purchased I don't think their actions will have any grave influence
over the fluctuations of the market and definately not lead to banning
of such material...
>>It may be silly, but it's their choice. I find it much more offensive
>>that such stores refuse to carry albums released on indie or even
>>quasi-indie (such as Matador) labels.
>The CORRECT thing to do with these records is to have an "ADULT"
>section in record shops, where these things are openly in sale, but
>with a sticker saying it contains lyrics that may offend some
>listeners. Physically denying punters the product is both fascist and
>stupid; I instantly make a note of these places that ban things and
>refuse to buy records from there, and anyone who wants the record
>anyway just has to take a short walk to somwhere that DOES sell it.
Then tell them this...start a campaign...voice your opinion to
them...then we'll see how many people agree with you and how many
care...until then your CORRECT thing to do pretty much doesn't mean
shit...I think the CORRECT thing to do for the most part is for these
respective businesses to run themselves the way they see fit...
>If it offends you, I'm sorry about that, but freedom of speech is a
>right that most Americans don't even realise they have, and are all
>too willing to give up without a fight.
The freedom of speech is in no way being afflicted by any of this...
>I'm not really a big fan of the Prodigy, but I think if it were a
>record by white suburban American men, it wouldn't get banned so
>quickly. The fact that it's a record made by a multi-racial band from
>England has a lot more to do with it, I think you'll find.
More paranoia...
GOD
--
YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT
I AM NOT GOD
JackieBlue
Binky, the performing seal wrote:
> >K-Mart and Wal-Mart are PRIVATE BUSINESSES. Freedom of expression works
> >both ways, you know. Prodigy have every right to make an album with the
> >lyric "smach my bitch up", and by the same token, any private
> >organization has every right to refuse to carry it.
>
> Sure, but is it not a short step from there to banning
> politically-opinionated records by Gays, non-whites, and any other
> minority group that a government 9or nosy religious nuts) could
> consider "offensive" or even just "unamerican"?
No... that's a pretty far-fetched step, in fact. I don't see Wal-Mart
yaking the new Wu-Tang CD (it sells too well). And the actions of
Wal-Mart aren't going to seriously affect the distribution of records in
this country.
Bill Maher made an excellent point on a related topic to this last
night. Everyone gets on Wal-Mart's case for being the Big Corporate
Meanie about this, when in fact they pulled the record because their
CUSTOMERS made a stink. Ultimately, they have to answer to the
stockholders and the will of their clientele.
I suggest you take this up with the women's rights groups which were
behind the controversy, not Wal-Mart and K-Mart.
> >It may be silly, but it's their choice. I find it much more offensive
> >that such stores refuse to carry albums released on indie or even
> >quasi-indie (such as Matador) labels.
>
> The CORRECT thing to do with these records is to have an "ADULT"
> section in record shops, where these things are openly in sale, but
> with a sticker saying it contains lyrics that may offend some
> listeners.
The "correct" thing to do? That's FASCISM, kid!
Do you think Wal-Mart and K-Mart have any interest whatsoever in
re-structuring their stores to have an "adult" record section, a section
which would invariably contain about two dozen CDs?
The CORRECT thing to do is simply buy your music elsewhere. Even the
smallest towns in America tend to have at least ONE record store.
> Physically denying punters the product is both fascist and
> stupid; I instantly make a note of these places that ban things and
> refuse to buy records from there, and anyone who wants the record
> anyway just has to take a short walk to somwhere that DOES sell it.
Exactly. So your point is...?
> If it offends you, I'm sorry about that, but freedom of speech is a
> right that most Americans don't even realise they have, and are all
> too willing to give up without a fight.
No one is giving up freedom of speech. This isn't ABOUT freedom of
speech. It's about the right of a business to stock what it wants.
*-Marts choose not to stock LOTS of things. They don't have William
Burroughs novels or the latest Bikini Kill album, either. Why? Not
because of "censorship", but because they just simply feel they wouldn't
make a profit from such items.
> I'm not really a big fan of the Prodigy, but I think if it were a
> record by white suburban American men, it wouldn't get banned so
> quickly. The fact that it's a record made by a multi-racial band from
> England has a lot more to do with it, I think you'll find.
I think you'll find you're absurdly paranoid.
--
Rev. Jack Godsey - rental messiah, slam poet, dealer.
http://members.tripod.com/~spill/index.html
now playing: The Cure "Charlotte Sometimes"
Decklin Foster
Quoth bart.me...@tornado.be (Bart Lateur):
>Well, I think that by now, somebody at K-Mart has *listened* to the
>track.
Yeah, they heard that "Change my pitch up" lryic and it just pushed them over
the edge... :)
Tom Ewing
>On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:00:11 -0500, JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com>
>wrote:
>
>>If you find something offensive, don't sell it. It's that simple.
>
>That's FASCISM kid!
Nope, just capitalism.
Tom.
Decklin Foster
Quoth Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com (Binky, the performing seal):
>That's FASCISM kid!
Right. I *demand* that you sell my record. If not, you're an enemy of the
government. That sure doesn't set off my agenda detector...
>Sure, but is it not a short step from there to banning
>politically-opinionated records by Gays, non-whites, and any other
>minority group that a government 9or nosy religious nuts) could
>consider "offensive" or even just "unamerican"?
Yes, and then nobody would shop at K-Mart. It's called commercialism.
>The CORRECT thing to do <snip>
DO you actually think K-mart gives a fuck about what's correct? They want to
make money. They decided that potential lost sales from offended customers
were greater numerically than potential new sales from Prodigy fans. End of
story.
>If it offends you, I'm sorry about that, but freedom of speech is a
>right that most Americans don't even realise they have, and are all
>too willing to give up without a fight.
May I suggest for extra credit reading material, the First Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States.
--
Mccarthy is alive and well.
ghh...@delta.is.tcu.edu
Praetorius wrote:
>
> Kmart sucks the big one,
Hey, pal. Kmart is the reason why I'm in college and I have a car
and a computer! :)
>they are living in the 50's, but oh well, why would i shop at Kmart, if
>i want music, i go to a music store, where they dont ban music because
>it is offensive
Exactly. This is why I don't understand the bullshit about Kmart
and Walmart banning the Prodge disc. It would make sense if a major
US music retailer like Camelot or Blockbuster banned the single.
>god, if you find something offensive, just dont buy it, its that
>simple
True. But a majority of Kmart's customers are women. Women who would
probably be offended by the single word 'bitch' on a product, let
alone a smack reference along with it. Some people just don't have
the common sense to ignore something they might find offensive upon
investigation. My dad is a regional merchandise vice-president for
the Kmart Corportation. He thinks the self-imposed ban is silly; but
he also understands that his customer base [women] don't want to
have that around them, regardless of Howlett's message.
I remember in the late 1980's, when Kmart used to own Waldenbooks,
my dad would receive phone calls and letters at home from the American
Family Organization, some crazed group of Christian Fundamentalists
bent on ridding the world [or, at least, America] of filth. My
dad had nothing to do with Waldenbooks [which sold Playboy, Penthouse
and a few other soft core adult rags on their newsstand], yet we were
harrassed by AFO on a regular basis. This ordeal made me realize as
a child that some people just aren't happy unless they have something
to fight against. NOW has taken charge of the Prodigy situation and
private companies such as Kmart and Walmart are paying the price to
save face with their customers. It's not about supression of free
speech. It's about the bottom line. It'll become a laughable situation
one day, but it's a shame such practices continue in the States.
grant horne.
Marc Caruso
Do not buy tapes and cds at walmart i was told that they edit the cds
and tapes they receive to
make them unoffensive which is not too bad accept for the idea that when
you take an artists tape and start to edit it before selling it you
destroy the music and you sell something under an artist's or band's name
which was not written or even sung by the artist or band.
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 b...@sonicnet.com wrote:
> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> Music News of the World today! ***
>
> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up', 12/9/97
>
> "Following the lead of the mega-chain Wal-Mart, whose 2,337 stores pulled
> the album on Friday, and protests from the National Organization for
> Women, Kmart's 2,150 U.S. stores pulled their 7,000 copies of the album
> over the weekend"
>
> Find out the whole story at Addicted to Noise, the on-line music magazine
> that reports the latest breaking news in the music world, everyday.
>
> ENJOY!
> ----------
> To find the Music News Of The World cue your Web Browser to:
> ***(http://www.addict.com/MNOTW/) ***
>
>
> Wanna Read More?
> Search Addicted To Noise's huge database of hundreds of articles and
> album reviews. You'll find "Search" and the top of the Contents Page.
>
Drew Kalapach
fnord wrote:
well.... i guess they won't be carrying Rage Against the Machine's stuff
either.... ;)
Drew Kalapach
Houston.... "South Dallas" ;)
http://users.aol.com/dekkal/pages/drewpage.html
Rhodri
Marc Caruso <mca...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
> Do not buy tapes and cds at walmart i was told that they edit the cds
wouldn't worry about that. impossible.
Alex Cavaye
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.97121...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu>, Marc Caruso <mca...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
>Do not buy tapes and cds at walmart i was told that they edit the cds
>make them unoffensive which is not too bad accept for the idea that when
Paranoia paranoia paranoia.
----- electronic love -----
http://huizen.dds.nl/~sturm
JackieBlue
Justin Beck wrote:
> >No... that's a pretty far-fetched step, in fact. I don't see Wal-Mart
> >yaking the new Wu-Tang CD (it sells too well). And the actions of
> >Wal-Mart aren't going to seriously affect the distribution of records in
> >this country.
> >
>
> Yeah, they couldn't possibly affect the distribution of records in
> this country, even IF they are the largest distributor of records in
> this country.
The largest distributor of records, yes. The largest distributor of
IMPORTANT records? Not even close.
> >The CORRECT thing to do is simply buy your music elsewhere. Even the
> >smallest towns in America tend to have at least ONE record store.
>
> That is becoming more and more rare, because if you didn't already
> notice, big stores like Walmart are putting the small stores out of
> business. You would do well to actually talk to some small business
> owners and ask them what they think.
I'm not even talking about independant record stores. I'm talking about
chain stores in malls, which tend to pretty much never pull albums for
being "controversial", or stores like Circuit City, which are nearly as
prevalent as *-Marts. To my knowledge, none of these stores really care
what the lyrics on their albums say, and most of them have the advantage
of being vastly cheaper than *-Marts.
--
Rev. Jack Godsey - rental messiah, slam poet, c'oid.
http://members.tripod.com/~spill/index.html
now playing: Sloan "I Hate My Generation"
Justin Beck
In article <34918C...@planetc.com>,
JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com> wrote:
>Binky, the performing seal wrote:
>
>No... that's a pretty far-fetched step, in fact. I don't see Wal-Mart
>yaking the new Wu-Tang CD (it sells too well). And the actions of
>Wal-Mart aren't going to seriously affect the distribution of records in
>this country.
>
Yeah, they couldn't possibly affect the distribution of records in
this country, even IF they are the largest distributor of records in
this country.
Hmmm.
>Bill Maher made an excellent point on a related topic to this last
>night. Everyone gets on Wal-Mart's case for being the Big Corporate
>Meanie about this, when in fact they pulled the record because their
>CUSTOMERS made a stink. Ultimately, they have to answer to the
>stockholders and the will of their clientele.
>
Answering to stockholders is what they do. You think corporations act
on the will of consumers? You must have forgotten about advertising and
trade laws (which usually are negotiated totally in private, undemocrat-
ically). Or you've never heard of supply-side economics.
>I suggest you take this up with the women's rights groups which were
>behind the controversy, not Wal-Mart and K-Mart.
>
>> >It may be silly, but it's their choice. I find it much more offensive
>> >that such stores refuse to carry albums released on indie or even
>> >quasi-indie (such as Matador) labels.
>>
>> The CORRECT thing to do with these records is to have an "ADULT"
>> section in record shops, where these things are openly in sale, but
>> with a sticker saying it contains lyrics that may offend some
>> listeners.
>
>The "correct" thing to do? That's FASCISM, kid!
>
>Do you think Wal-Mart and K-Mart have any interest whatsoever in
>re-structuring their stores to have an "adult" record section, a section
>which would invariably contain about two dozen CDs?
>
>The CORRECT thing to do is simply buy your music elsewhere. Even the
>smallest towns in America tend to have at least ONE record store.
>
That is becoming more and more rare, because if you didn't already
notice, big stores like Walmart are putting the small stores out of
business. You would do well to actually talk to some small business
owners and ask them what they think.
You might also want to rethink your view that a "free" market necessarily
leads to a free market of ideas and viewpoints. Try living in a city
where small businesses have essentially been eradicated and see how long
you can retain your sanity in such a monoculture. Either you'll go nuts
and leave or withdraw into your apartment and watch TV all day. You could
start with someplace like Irvine, California, for example.
>> Physically denying punters the product is both fascist and
>> stupid; I instantly make a note of these places that ban things and
>> refuse to buy records from there, and anyone who wants the record
>> anyway just has to take a short walk to somwhere that DOES sell it.
>
>Exactly. So your point is...?
>
>> If it offends you, I'm sorry about that, but freedom of speech is a
>> right that most Americans don't even realise they have, and are all
>> too willing to give up without a fight.
>
>No one is giving up freedom of speech. This isn't ABOUT freedom of
>speech. It's about the right of a business to stock what it wants.
>*-Marts choose not to stock LOTS of things. They don't have William
>Burroughs novels or the latest Bikini Kill album, either. Why? Not
>because of "censorship", but because they just simply feel they wouldn't
>make a profit from such items.
>
>> I'm not really a big fan of the Prodigy, but I think if it were a
>> record by white suburban American men, it wouldn't get banned so
>> quickly. The fact that it's a record made by a multi-racial band from
>> England has a lot more to do with it, I think you'll find.
>
>I think you'll find you're absurdly paranoid.
>
>--
Justin Beck
In article <34919519...@nntp.netcruiser>,
Don't forget about neoliberalism, which is a combination of the two.
Binky, the performing seal
On 12 Dec 1997 10:43:13 -0600, fn...@atheist.tamu.edu (fnord) wrote:
>No...thats called running your business the way you see fit...K-Mart
>and Wal-Mart have no duty whatsoever to sell a product they don't deem
>worthy to be on their shelves...I'm not saying it doesn't suck or that
>it's not stupid...but its their right...
It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
>On the same token I wouldn't hold it against you if some new book
>supporting racism or other hate crimes came out and you decided not to
>stock your shelves with it...
All the more reason to stock the book, whatever it may be. Let people
read it and see what a load of bullshit it is, or decide not to read
it at all, or even read it and totally agree with it; whatever they
choose to do - as long as in doing so they aren't breaking the law or
hurting anyone else. It all comes down to crediting people with the
intelligence to decide for themselves what they want out of life.
Personally, I wouldn't like to stock such books, unless they were in
the best-seller list. If they were, I suppose I'd have to go ahead and
sell them - freedom of speech works both ways, of course.
>I think you are a bit too paranoid for your own good...
Where issues like this are concerned, no.
>unless K-Mart
>and Wal-Mart suddenly become the only places where cds can be
>purchased
Ahem!! I used to live in an area of Long Island NY where the only
place to buy records was K-Mart, so I refuse to believe your
supposition is impossible.
>I don't think their actions will have any grave influence
>over the fluctuations of the market and definately not lead to banning
>of such material...
Why are you defending this? It still sucks. What you are basically
saying is, "yes, this sucks; please let it suck and leave it be."
>>I'm not really a big fan of the Prodigy, but I think if it were a
>>record by white suburban American men, it wouldn't get banned so
>>quickly. The fact that it's a record made by a multi-racial band from
>>England has a lot more to do with it, I think you'll find.
>
>More paranoia...
Rubbish. In most of America there's one rule for slim white middle
class straight Americans and another for everybody else. If you live
there, you should know that already.
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
Binky, the performing seal
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:11:31 -0500, JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com>
wrote:
>The "correct" thing to do? That's FASCISM, kid!
Bat puckey. It's correct because it solves the problem and keeps
everybody happy. No one is prevented from buying the CD, nor is anyone
prevented from NOT buying the CD. What's fascist about that?
>Do you think Wal-Mart and K-Mart have any interest whatsoever in
>re-structuring their stores to have an "adult" record section, a section
>which would invariably contain about two dozen CDs?
No; that's why they suck.
>> Physically denying punters the product is both fascist and
>> stupid; I instantly make a note of these places that ban things and
>> refuse to buy records from there, and anyone who wants the record
>> anyway just has to take a short walk to somwhere that DOES sell it.
>
>Exactly. So your point is...?
I thought from your comments that you were misinformed; I didn't know
that you were also stupid. The Prodigy album is in the charts (or at
least it was when all this started) so therefore it sells. K-Mart, via
not stocking the CD, are losing sales. And if I don't buy anything
else there as a result, that's even more of my money they've lost. By
not selling everyone one item, they have prevented themselves selling
me any items. They, therefore, are stupid.
>No one is giving up freedom of speech.
Oh no...?
>This isn't ABOUT freedom of
>speech. It's about the right of a business to stock what it wants.
Why are you defending their choice to lose money and be stupid? Do you
work in one of these places?
>*-Marts choose not to stock LOTS of things. They don't have William
>Burroughs novels or the latest Bikini Kill album, either. Why? Not
>because of "censorship", but because they just simply feel they wouldn't
>make a profit from such items.
Horseshit. When were Bikini Kill at no.1 in the U.S. album charts? I
bet they stock the Billy Joel album with lyrics about masturbating,
because it sells and he's white, but they won't stock the Prodigy
album, because it has a track on it which *some people* may find
offensive. The truth of the matter is that *both* albums contain a
track which *some people* may find offensive, and *both* albums sell
(Prodigy were at no.1 not so long back, don't forget). Now spot the
album that's by a white American, and you'll have the album that
K-Mart will stock! Sure, there are other considerations, but it all
boils down to white Americans having the freedom of speech in America
and everyone else in America having jack-shit.
>I think you'll find you're absurdly paranoid.
I think you'll find you're yet another "me-too" poster with opinions
and comments too similar to fnord's for it to be a pure coincidence.
It could be the other way around of course, but that is neither here
nor there....
>Rev. Jack Godsey - rental messiah, slam poet, dealer.
That, and yet another messianic sig. Please, grow up.
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
Adam Richards
Love the sig!!!!!!
Purely out of interest, does it actually prevent spamming? If so, it
would mean that these commercial spammers actually READ EVERY MESSAGE,
to the end! How flattering!!!!
But even if it doesn't prevent spamming, it'd be nice to have $500
every time it happens anyway...
<Ad...@suck.my.spam>
Cilla Jism
On 12 Dec 1997 10:43:13 -0600, fn...@atheist.tamu.edu (fnord) wrote:
>More paranoia...
Go and read KarmaFuzz's message in the "Walmart Conspiracy..." thread;
I dare you!
>GOD
Can't be; she doesn't exist.
> YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT
> I AM NOT GOD
Go away, you copiously productive puckered arsehole.
JackieBlue
Binky, the performing seal wrote:
> >The "correct" thing to do? That's FASCISM, kid!
>
> Bat puckey. It's correct because it solves the problem and keeps
> everybody happy. No one is prevented from buying the CD, nor is anyone
> prevented from NOT buying the CD. What's fascist about that?
No. I meant that it's fascist to claim that you know the "correct"
thing to do.
And clearly, this solution does NOT make everyone happy. If everyone
would be happy if the album were sold at *-Marts, then it WOULD be sold
there. If people who shop at these places want the album to not be
there, then it's their right to voice that opinion.
> I thought from your comments that you were misinformed; I didn't know
> that you were also stupid. The Prodigy album is in the charts (or at
> least it was when all this started) so therefore it sells. K-Mart, via
> not stocking the CD, are losing sales. And if I don't buy anything
> else there as a result, that's even more of my money they've lost. By
> not selling everyone one item, they have prevented themselves selling
> me any items. They, therefore, are stupid.
And, doubtless, if ENOUGH people boycotted *-Marts, then they would put
the album back on the shelf. I already avoid such places if possible.
If you're so concerned about this, I suggest you use your time
organizing a formal boycott and writing letters to the stores rather
than arguing on Usenet.
> >This isn't ABOUT freedom of
> >speech. It's about the right of a business to stock what it wants.
>
> Why are you defending their choice to lose money and be stupid? Do you
> work in one of these places?
Because in America we have the freedom to do stupid things.
And no. I don't work at places that drug-test, generally.
> Sure, there are other considerations, but it all
> boils down to white Americans having the freedom of speech in America
> and everyone else in America having jack-shit.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're a white
suburbanite yourself.
I'm not disagreeing that there are disquieting trends. I remember, back
in '88, you could buy the Guns-N-Roses album AND the N.W.A. album at
K-Mart, and while both had LOTS of obscenities, neither were censored.
> I think you'll find you're yet another "me-too" poster with opinions
> and comments too similar to fnord's for it to be a pure coincidence.
This is the opinion I've always had. I think you'll find that lots of
posters have had YOUR opinion, as well. Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
> >Rev. Jack Godsey - rental messiah, slam poet, dealer.
>
> That, and yet another messianic sig. Please, grow up.
I am grown up. My position as a spiritual leader is real and has
nothing to do with this discussion.
--
Rev. Jack Godsey - rental messiah, slam poet, lao.
http://members.tripod.com/~spill/index.html
now playing: Juliana Hatfield "A Dame With a Rod"
Alex Cavaye
In article <34a58a17...@news.demon.co.uk>, Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com (Binky, the performing seal) wrote:
>On 12 Dec 1997 10:43:13 -0600, fn...@atheist.tamu.edu (fnord) wrote:
>>and Wal-Mart have no duty whatsoever to sell a product they don't deem
>>worthy to be on their shelves...I'm not saying it doesn't suck or that
>>it's not stupid...but its their right...
>It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
>they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
>
Walk over to the next record store/department store/whatever and buy it there.
You don't HAVE to shop at K-Mart. Exercise your rights and boycot them if
you want. You've got your right to choose, so do they. They chose not to
sell the CD. So fucking handle it!
>Ahem!! I used to live in an area of Long Island NY where the only
>place to buy records was K-Mart, so I refuse to believe your
>supposition is impossible.
>
No record stores on Long Island??? Perhaps you should learn how to walk
further than a half mile from your front door.
Alex
fri...@vaxxine.com
All I can say is that it's funny how everyone is talking about this now.
The cd came out in June.
The Prodigy suck, they used to be good, there best album was in '94. All
the true Prodigy fans know this. What Prodigy is doing is just to get
promotion for there album, because they know that this is the only way to
get there album to sell. The music sucks and the regualar Prodigy fans
have stopped listening to them, so they sell an image to people looking for
something 'so called rebellious'
The fucks who are trying to ban it are no better, let just leave it at
that.
Pete Thomas
<fri...@vaxxine.com> wrote:
>All I can say is that it's funny how everyone is talking about this now.
>The cd came out in June.
>The Prodigy suck, they used to be good, there best album was in '94. All
>the true Prodigy fans know this.
I'm a true Prodigy fan, and you're talking shit.
>What Prodigy is doing is just to get promotion for there album,
>because they know that this is the only way to
>get there album to sell.
Oh yeah, like they have never sold well before! Get a grip, loser!
>The music sucks and the regualar Prodigy fans have stopped listening to them,
Wrong again.
>so they sell an image to people looking for
>something 'so called rebellious'
Better than grinning and gurning to the days of cartoon samples.
--
Prodigy FAQ maintainer.
Peter Prodge: paul [at] watford-fc.demon.co.uk
Address about to change soon... watch this space!
New to this group? READ the FAQ at www.prodge.demon.co.uk
Dec 20th MEET US! See http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~crosbya/
Sakurambo
Once upon a time in the land of alt.cesium,
Rocky wrote:
> Arsenic <nos...@D8C.or.ig> wrote:
> +>Dave wrote:
> +>
> +>> Rocky wrote:
> +>
> +>--> Arsenic <nos...@D8C.co.ig> wrote:
> +>
> +>----> Dave wrote:
> +>
> +>------> Water Trees wrote:
> +>
> +>--------> Water Trees wrote:
> +>
> +>----------> Rhodri wrote:
> +>
> +>------------> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
> +>
> +>--------------> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> +>--------------> Music News of the World today! ***
> +>
> +>--------------> Kmart Joins Ban Of Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up',
> +>--------------> 12/9/97
> +>
> +>------------> 12/9/97? New Of THe World Today? What planet are you on,
> +>------------> pal?
> +>
> +>------------> I wrote that, then remembered that Americans do their
> +>------------> dates the other way round. What an arse.
> +>
> +>----------> Yes, but that date is yesterday, in the UK.
> +>----------> It's still today here.
> +>----------> There's a reason we do things this way...
> +>
> +>--------> I take that back. It's today now. Of course, you in California
> +>--------> might disagree.
> +>
> +>----------> --
> +>----------> Lewis Bateman mhm 15x11 lbat...@hotmail.com H
> +>----------> just out of curiosity, is the 10th of Dec. Tuesday or
> +>----------> Wednesday there?
> +>------> what kinda weird question is that? aren't days on the same dates
> +>------> everywhere? it's wednesday the 10th in england, anyway...
> +>
> +>----> Not any more, it's not - but it is here. Weird.
> +>
> +>--> Its now the 11/12/97 or so the yanks can understand 11th December
> +>--> 1997
> +>> can we please not make this an interesting thread where someone posts
> +>> the date every day? it'd get kinda boring after the first year or
> +>> so... :)
> +>
> +>> ---
> +>> dave
> +>> 11/12/97 (uk stylee) - 12/11/97 (for the lovely people over the pond)
> +>> ;)
> +>
> +>12/12/97 - 12/12/97. And all this while, you thought we wrote the date
> +>differently over here. :-)
> 13/12/97 England 13 December 1997 for the yanks @ 01:50
For various europeans and the Japanese, it is today 97/12/15
Sakurambo
--
____ _
/__ _]|
/ \/ |_ |
/ /\ _)|
WINGS OF HONNEAMISE: Man trains to become astronaut.
Nate Patrin
Pete Thomas <pa...@watford-fc.demon.co.ukSPAMSUCKZ> wrote:
> <fri...@vaxxine.com> wrote:
>
> >What Prodigy is doing is just to get promotion for there album,
> >because they know that this is the only way to
> >get there album to sell.
>
> Oh yeah, like they have never sold well before! Get a grip, loser!
Not in the States- which, to this poster, seems to be the only market that
matters. "Music For the Jilted Generation" peaked at #1 in the UK but that
poster probably didn't care 'cause it hit a whopping #197 in the US. And
I'm just wondering what bands 'fritzie' likes that *haven't* benefited
sales-wise from controversy... (see: Pistols, the Sex)
--
-Nate Patrin: Gullible Music Consumer
****************************************************************************
*********
The Ramones, Beck, The Delta 72, A Tribe Called Quest, (the) Prodigy,
Nirvana, the Clash, Daft Punk, Iggy Pop and/or the Stooges, David Bowie,
U2, Sonic Youth, the Chemical Brothers, BDP/KRS-One, Dr. Octagon (aka
Kool Keith), DJ Shadow, Dead Kennedys, Soundgarden, Pink Floyd, Bob
Dylan, John Coltrane, Velvet Underground, the Doors, De La Soul, DJ Krush,
Miles Davis, Santana, Sly and the Family Stone, James Brown, the Beastie
Boys, the Police, the Beatles, the Stones, the Who, and Jimi f*ckin'
Hendrix
(NOTE: You may dislike many of the above bands. Tough.)
Patrick Roessler
Rocky (mhm_1...@alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk) wrote:
> Arsenic <nos...@D8C.or.ig> wrote:
> +>Dave wrote:
> +>
> +>> Rocky wrote:
> +>
> +>--> Arsenic <nos...@D8C.co.ig> wrote:
> +>
> +>----> Dave wrote:
> +>
> +>------> Water Trees wrote:
> +>
> +>--------> Water Trees wrote:
> +>
> +>----------> Rhodri wrote:
> +>
> +>------------> <b...@sonicnet.com> wrote:
> +>
> +>--------------> ***Check out Addicted To Noise's
> +>--------------> Music News of the World today! ***
So what are you trying to tell us...?
--
roessi
-=[ DJ dF ]=-
Final comment to the lame Smack my BITCH up discussion...
a) Why bother about a god damn FUCKIN' title!
b) It's obvious that the Prodigy knew this was going to happen...
read: MORE talking about it means MORE selling because it's the oldest
trick in the book: if it's forbidden, people want it...
c) K-Mart can suck my white dick
d) America can suck my white dick...
e) Every moron who thinks this is discussable can suck my already 2
times sucked white dick...
f) My next record will have the title: Smoosh that doggie, with a
photograph on the cover of dog who was just ran over by a car... do
you GOT MY POINT...
Djeezes...
辰 keep da vibe alive! 馬
辰 m...@mindless.com! 馬
辰 contact muh @ yar own risk 馬
[ REMOVE [remove] FER REPLY! ]
Kevin C Welch
Binky, the performing seal (Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com) wrote:
: It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
: they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
Wow, you really are a small-minded individual.
As a private institution, K-Mart can sell whatever music albums they
choose to sell. It may be censorship, but it is by no means illegal.
They are not impinging on any consumer's right whatsoever; you can pick
up and go to the next store. No store is obligated to sell a product to
the public. Fascist. Please.
: Personally, I wouldn't like to stock such books, unless they were in
: the best-seller list. If they were, I suppose I'd have to go ahead and
: sell them - freedom of speech works both ways, of course.
*sigh*
This is the common cry of someone who really doesn't know what the First
Amendment is all about. K-Mart, etc. is not infringing on your freedom
of speech; nor are they infringing on Prodigy's freedom of speech in the US.
: Ahem!! I used to live in an area of Long Island NY where the only
: place to buy records was K-Mart, so I refuse to believe your
: supposition is impossible.
Then your problem is geographical, not political, social or moral.
: Why are you defending this? It still sucks. What you are basically
: saying is, "yes, this sucks; please let it suck and leave it be."
I think people are saying "it sucks, but it's their right." That's the
basis of the Constitution -- protecting the minority opinion. All you
people are saying is "It sucks; K-Mart can suck me dick." If you really
had any shining intelligence, you would organize a campaign and choose to
boycott K-Mart. Smart people organize and use the community as leverage
against such companies. They haven't done anything illegal, so you
should organize.
: Rubbish. In most of America there's one rule for slim white middle
: class straight Americans and another for everybody else. If you live
: there, you should know that already.
I'm really embarrassed by American's like yourself. Your cranial
deficiencies just perpetuate the notion that Americans are idiots.
--
__kevin c welch___________________________________________________________
kwe...@sas.upenn.edu
Pete Thomas
kwe...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Kevin C Welch) wrote:
>: It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
>: they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
>Wow, you really are a small-minded individual.
>As a private institution, K-Mart can sell whatever music albums they
>choose to sell. It may be censorship, but it is by no means illegal.
Legal or illegal, it is *wrong* to do what they are doing. Don't tell
me everything legal is fine and dandy and everything illegal is really
hideously evil.
>They are not impinging on any consumer's right whatsoever; you can pick
>up and go to the next store.
*If* there is a next store, that is.
>boycott K-Mart. Smart people organize and use the community as leverage
>against such companies. They haven't done anything illegal, so you
>should organize.
Er, you sure on that? I'm sure their policy of dragging in new
releases before their proper release date is illegal. (Well, it would
be here in the UK)
It puts other record stores out of business. Think about it.
>: Rubbish. In most of America there's one rule for slim white middle
>: class straight Americans and another for everybody else. If you live
>: there, you should know that already.
>I'm really embarrassed by American's like yourself. Your cranial
>deficiencies just perpetuate the notion that Americans are idiots.
I think Kmart is one of the main things backing the "Americans are
idiots" notion.
A "family based store" that doesn't like selling recordings about
violence, but has no qualms about selling guns?
Hmmmm!
--
And yes, Kmart *can* suck my dick.
Pete Thomas
"Nate Patrin" <patr...@tc.umn.no_i_don't_want_hot_XXX_sluts.edu>
wrote:
>> >What Prodigy is doing is just to get promotion for there album,
>> >because they know that this is the only way to
>> >get there album to sell.
>> Oh yeah, like they have never sold well before! Get a grip, loser!
>Not in the States-
Well, Liam and the boys were already rich before FOTL and that
fire-related song (hehe).
>which, to this poster, seems to be the only market that matters.
hehe...
The Teletubbies (currently at #1 here) haven't got a hit outside of
the UK yet, but I'm sure they are gonna be rich bastards. (If it
weren't for the fact that they are kid's TV characters, tho)
>"Music For the Jilted Generation" peaked at #1 in the UK but that
>poster probably didn't care 'cause it hit a whopping #197 in the US. And
>I'm just wondering what bands 'fritzie' likes that *haven't* benefited
>sales-wise from controversy... (see: Pistols, the Sex)
"One rule for the others" springs to mind. ;-)
--
From alt.music.prodigy-the
Matt B Parisi
In <882306588.11904.0...@news.demon.co.uk>
All the poster did was say the the argument about K-Mart infringing
some sort of First Amendment right is bogus. He did not comment about
it's immorality and hypocrisy. Yes, K-Mart is abominably hyprocritical
with this action, but nothing that they do is any kind of legal
violation. Furthermore, I don't even see why it is morally wrong. A
store can sell whatever it wants to. My grocery store is not immoral
because it sells yellow bananas but never stocks the red ones. It's
not immoral because it sells Rolling Stone and Spin magazines but does
not sell Alternative Press.
The immoral act, which I know that *Wal*-Mart engages in, is placing a
G-rated version of the "offending" product on the market in their
stores without clear labels informing the purchaser of the alterations.
On a final note, even if K-Mart WAS engaging in a first amendment
violation by it's "censorship," the consumer has no standing to object
to the practice, as no right of the consumer is being violated. If
"banning" a prodigy album does violate a 1st A right, it is Prodigy's
itself (from being heard), and only the artist could seek legal
redress.
The 1st A protects your right to speak, not listen.
Matt P
Dave O'Flynn
Binky, the performing seal wrote:
> If it offends you, I'm sorry about that, but freedom of speech is a
> right that most Americans don't even realise they have, and are all
> too willing to give up without a fight.
Are yo seriously trying to say this?! In my experience Americans tend
to be the most obsessed with their right to freedom of speech. As for
K-Mart not stocking the Prodigy album - it is their right. I don't
agree with them, but they can do what they want - it's their
equivalent of your freedom of speech. You can't have it both ways.
Just so you know, I've been a Prodigy fan since '92, before most
Americans knew what dance music was...so I'm not biased against bands
like the Prodigy.
Dave.
Dave O'Flynn
fri...@vaxxine.com wrote:
>
> All I can say is that it's funny how everyone is talking about this now.
> The cd came out in June.
That's Americans for ya...they're never up to date on anything to do
with dance music :-)
> The Prodigy suck, they used to be good, there best album was in '94. All
> the true Prodigy fans know this. What Prodigy is doing is just to get
> promotion for there album, because they know that this is the only way to
> get there album to sell. The music sucks and the regualar Prodigy fans
> have stopped listening to them, so they sell an image to people looking for
> something 'so called rebellious'
Bullshit. They haven't sold out, or anything like it. Their music has
changed from Jilted Generation to FOTL, but then Jilted was
completely different from Experience. I don't see any Cartoon Techno
on FOTL (remember "Charlie" anyone?).
As for getting the album to sell, no-where except the States has
caused this kind of hassle over "Smack my Bitch Up". One or two radio
staions have got a little antsy about playing the single during the
day, but that's about it. Can't wait for "Smack my Bitch Up" to be
released as a single in the States...
> The fucks who are trying to ban it are no better, let just leave it at
> that.
Especially since the lyric "Smack my Bitch Up" has nothing to do with
beating up women...it doesn't actually mean anything - it's just a
phrase. So says Liam anyway (Mixmag interview, July 1997). For those
who should know better Liam (Howlett) is the guy who writes all the
music. The others are just dancers and, more recently, singers.
Dave.
bob dawson
Pete Thomas wrote:
> It puts other record stores out of business. Think about it.
>
Okay, I just got in an argument over this last night so I must comment.
K-Mart et al do *not* put other stores out of business. People choosing
to shop at K-Mart is what drives out other businesses. If you think
that small, independently-owned businesses are important then it is up
to you to support them. Be willing to pay (more than likely) higher
prices in exchange for doing what you think is right.
You cannot blame the closure of some stores on their competition. It is
the consumers that are doing it. Wait until the proper release date to
go buy your copy of the record.
My roommate bitches non-stop about how so many towns are losing their
downtown cores and people are choosing to live and shop in the suburbs,
yet virtually everytime he goes out shopping he goes to Wal-Mart. This
is not Wal-Mart gutting the downtown of Christiansburg, VA, it is
consumers like my roomie. And the thing is, he will tell you this
too--he has a JD and is completing a PhD in econ, he is very smart and
knows full-well what is going on, yet he still contributes to the
problem.
> A "family based store" that doesn't like selling recordings about
> violence, but has no qualms about selling guns?
Can't argue with you on this one. Hypocrisy at its finest.
bob
--
Just call me Economist Spice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Dawson | Start the car, I know a whoopee spot
Dept. of Ag. & Applied Econ | Where the gin is cold but the jazz is
hot.
Virginia Tech | It's just a noisy hall
Blacksburg, VA 24061-0401 | Where there's a nightly brawl
Phone (540) 231-6399 | And all that Jazz.
Bart Lateur
Dave O'Flynn <eei...@eei.ericsson.se> wrote:
>Especially since the lyric "Smack my Bitch Up" has nothing to do with
>beating up women...it doesn't actually mean anything - it's just a
>phrase.
Well, I've heard is part of (ore based on) a larger phrase, "(I'm) like
a pimp that smacks his bitch up". Not women in general, but prostitutes.
And thus, that's REALLY smacking up. I don't like the idea of that
image.
Bart.
Pete Thomas
ltri...@ix.netcom.com(Matt B Parisi) wrote:
>All the poster did was say the the argument about K-Mart infringing
>some sort of First Amendment right is bogus. He did not comment about
>it's immorality and hypocrisy. Yes, K-Mart is abominably hyprocritical
>with this action, but nothing that they do is any kind of legal
>violation. Furthermore, I don't even see why it is morally wrong.
Selling people's music re-written to some 'standards' *is* morally
wrong.
>A store can sell whatever it wants to. My grocery store is not immoral
>because it sells yellow bananas but never stocks the red ones.
Ah, but the Prodigy are a 'yellow banana'. People want the Prodigy.
>It's not immoral because it sells Rolling Stone and Spin magazines but does
>not sell Alternative Press.
I can't comment on those mags, not knowing the full situation of the
US media, but if there's a good commercial demand for AP, they should
stock it.
>The immoral act, which I know that *Wal*-Mart engages in, is placing a
>G-rated version of the "offending" product on the market in their
>stores without clear labels informing the purchaser of the alterations.
Well said.
>On a final note, even if K-Mart WAS engaging in a first amendment
>violation by it's "censorship," the consumer has no standing to object
>to the practice, as no right of the consumer is being violated.
ie: the law sucks.
>If "banning" a prodigy album does violate a 1st A right, it is Prodigy's
>itself (from being heard), and only the artist could seek legal
>redress.
>The 1st A protects your right to speak, not listen.
--
Anthony
> >> Physically denying punters the product is both fascist and
> >> stupid; I instantly make a note of these places that ban things and
> >> refuse to buy records from there, and anyone who wants the record
> >> anyway just has to take a short walk to somwhere that DOES sell it.
> >
> >Exactly. So your point is...?
>
> that you were also stupid. The Prodigy album is in the charts (or at
> least it was when all this started) so therefore it sells. K-Mart, via
> not stocking the CD, are losing sales. And if I don't buy anything
> else there as a result, that's even more of my money they've lost. By
> not selling everyone one item, they have prevented themselves selling
> me any items. They, therefore, are stupid.
>
business spread all over North and even South America can not be stupid. So
- you and others like you boycott K-Mart because they banned the album (
which by the way sucks anyways ) - but think of all these "feminist ..."
and " ... against violence" organizations which count thousands of members
plus their families that could boycott K-Marts if they WERE selling the
album. A simple math, man. And who on your opinion is more "valuable"
customer for them - you that go and buy music once in a while - or some
mother with 3 kids that fills up her van with K-Mart stuff every weekend
for years ? Nah, man, they are FAR from being stupid.
A.
Robert Mashlan
JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com> wrote:
>If you find something offensive, don't sell it. It's that simple.
>
>K-Mart and Wal-Mart are PRIVATE BUSINESSES. Freedom of expression works
>both ways, you know. Prodigy have every right to make an album with the
>lyric "smach my bitch up", and by the same token, any private
>organization has every right to refuse to carry it.
I can appreciate your free-market philosophy, but I think with the
case of large department stores it is different. You may live in a
big city where you have lots of choices where you can shop. However,
in smaller communities in America, these stores like K-Mart and
Wal-Mart, come and build big stores that kill off all the small family
run businesses in the downtown of that community, simply because they
cannot compete with the lower prices these megastores are able to
offer, because of the economy of scale.
When this happens, the K-Mart or Wal-Mart is becomes a defacto
monopoly, like a government run store in an communist country.
Therefore, in a culture where freedom of expression is allowed and
supported, it is inappropriate for a megastore to make
political/artistic decisions.
Binky, the performing seal
On 16 Dec 1997 16:31:29 GMT, kwe...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Kevin C
Welch) wrote:
>Binky, the performing seal (Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com) wrote:
>
>: It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
>: they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
>
>Wow, you really are a small-minded individual.
What do I care what you think of me? The point is that I'm right, so
suck on it, baby!!
>As a private institution, K-Mart can sell whatever music albums they
>choose to sell. It may be censorship, but it is by no means illegal.
Oh, go away and don't come back until you can prove that you
understand the the point of this thread - which is, yes, K-Mart can do
what they like, fine, but they still suck and we have every right to
say so if we want to. If you're that keen on sticking up for K-Mart,
go and start up a K-Mart newsgroup.
>They are not impinging on any consumer's right whatsoever; you can pick
>up and go to the next store. No store is obligated to sell a product to
>the public. Fascist. Please.
I didn't ever say they were obligated to sell it (read it again), but
they are making shopping more difficult for people who would have
bought the album and may not live near a proper record shop, and who
don't have any other way of getting it - casual buyers - this
situation does exist, for millions of people.
Why are you defending K-Mart's choice to lose money and be stupid by
withdrawing a top-selling album from their shelves? Do you work for
one of these places?
>This is the common cry of someone who really doesn't know what the First
>Amendment is all about. K-Mart, etc. is not infringing on your freedom
>of speech; nor are they infringing on Prodigy's freedom of speech in the US.
Oh no? I never said K-Mart were infringing on my freedom of speech.
What I said was that they have double standards about what they ban
and what they don't ban, which does affect the Prodigy's freedom of
speech. Go and read my previous posts - I won this argument ages back.
>: Ahem!! I used to live in an area of Long Island NY where the only
>: place to buy records was K-Mart, so I refuse to believe your
>: supposition is impossible.
>
>Then your problem is geographical, not political, social or moral.
Problem? I don't have a problem; K-Mart does. They suck; that is their
problem.
>: Why are you defending this? It still sucks. What you are basically
>: saying is, "yes, this sucks; please let it suck and leave it be."
>
>I think people are saying "it sucks, but it's their right."
Yeah, and it's a person's right to shoot himself or jump off a cliff -
I bet you go around saying that's cool, too.
> That's the
>basis of the Constitution -- protecting the minority opinion.
So K-Mart's opinions are "the minority" are they? That's debatable.
>All you
>people are saying is "It sucks; K-Mart can suck me dick."
We've got a situation we're not happy with, and we're complaining
about it - what the hell are you doing? Sounds like you want things to
suck and for people to be unhappy. So you're a Tory, then?
>If you really
>had any shining intelligence, you would organize a campaign and choose to
>boycott K-Mart. Smart people organize and use the community as leverage
>against such companies. They haven't done anything illegal, so you
>should organize.
Good idea, sure; but that puts the onus back on us, and in the end
will probably do very little to affect K-Mart and their blinkered
policies - they will still ban things like this in future and the next
time there's one of these debates we'll have to "organise" yet again -
why can't K-Mart just see sense and realise they're being stupid and
losing money?
And who said I had "any shining intelligence" 'cos I didn't; I leave
that sort of shit to idiots like you! I don't shop at K-Mart because
there aren't any here in the UK where I've been for the past few
years. I used to avoid the place like the plague when I lived in
America in the '80s, after I moved away from Long Island to
Pennsylvania; and no doubt if I still lived in America I would still
be boycotting them. Why? Because they suck.
Suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck
suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck suck.
Angry?
>: Rubbish. In most of America there's one rule for slim white middle
>: class straight Americans and another for everybody else. If you live
>: there, you should know that already.
>
>I'm really embarrassed by American's like yourself. Your cranial
>deficiencies just perpetuate the notion that Americans are idiots.
"American's"(sic)? I'm embarrassed by that, mate! You ought to get
your spelling sorted out before you accuse a whole country full of
people of having "cranial deficiencies". I'm not American, but those
that I've met would make you look like a species of lesser pond life
that eats through its anus. You probably do that anyway; you certainly
talk through it already.
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
Binky, the performing seal
On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:43:40 GMT, rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan)
wrote:
Excellently put! This is EXACTLY the situation I experienced in
America when I used to live there.
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
bob dawson
Robert Mashlan wrote:
>
> However,
> in smaller communities in America, these stores like K-Mart and
> Wal-Mart, come and build big stores that kill off all the small family
> run businesses in the downtown of that community, simply because they
> cannot compete with the lower prices these megastores are able to
> offer, because of the economy of scale.
>
While I commend you for getting the concept of "economy of scale" mostly
right you are wrong in saying that the "small family run businesses" are
being killed off becuase of what Wal-Mart or K-Mart does. They die
becuase *consumers* choose to shop at the super stores rather than
downtown.
Adam Richards
On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:05:11 +0000, bob dawson <rda...@vt.edu> wrote:
>While I commend you for getting the concept of "economy of scale" mostly
>right you are wrong in saying that the "small family run businesses" are
>being killed off becuase of what Wal-Mart or K-Mart does. They die
>becuase *consumers* choose to shop at the super stores rather than
>downtown.
Do you say this is good, or are you just being pedantic?
You seem to have this weird idea that all of America is composed
entirely of either shopping malls or "downtown", and any person who
may be unhappy with one has but a five-minute stroll to reach the
other. The truth of the matter is that large areas of America are
tarmacked over with vast seas of concrete where the only place you can
buy anything is a K-Mart, and for a large proportion of the population
there simply is no other choice; your "downtown" no longer exists for
a high proportion of the population because K-Marts, etc., have put
them out of business. These big K-Mart stores spring up and suddenly
they become meccas for busy, undemanding consumers who like the
convenience of doing all their shopping at one big store, instead of
at several small ones. The big store can't cater to every taste; it is
a "jack of all trades and a master of none".
Yes, *some* consumers are mindless sheep who actually like shopping at
K-Mart, but not everyone is like that, and it is the more discerning
customer who is being disenfranchised by this trend. K-Mart sell what
they sell cheaper (by and large); therefore, smaller shops go out of
business. If you're a discerning customer living in an area where
K-Mart has cornered the market, your choice is severely limited as a
result.
So I don't agree it's a matter of choice for some people. And what if
you don't have loads of money to buy gas to go "downtown", anyway?
<Ad...@roblang.demon.co.uk>
Robert Mashlan
bob dawson <rda...@vt.edu> wrote:
>While I commend you for getting the concept of "economy of scale" mostly
>right you are wrong in saying that the "small family run businesses" are
>being killed off becuase of what Wal-Mart or K-Mart does. They die
>becuase *consumers* choose to shop at the super stores rather than
>downtown.
Sure, they choose, because the prices were lower. Not everybody is
going to boycott just because they pissed about this or that. People
are going to do what it takes to save money and survive. The effect
is to kill off small businesses, destroying a free market in a small
community, and leaving one megastore as the monopoly. I really do
not see much difference between one of these megastores and a
government-run department store in the old Soviet Union.
I believe in a free market economy, but I do not think that businesses
should be allowed to conduct business in an uncurtailed manner, such
that we end up with an economy run by a few large corporations. Even
though these large corporations are not officially controlled by the
government, there's not much difference between an economy like this,
where decisions are made by a small group of elite people that serve
as the board of directors, and a small group of elite people that
serve as the seven year planning commission in a communist/government
run economy.
Matt B Parisi
In
<4F8A01F4031A4ACB.A0A4043A...@library-proxy.airne
s.net> rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan) writes:
>
>JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com> wrote:
>
>>If you find something offensive, don't sell it. It's that simple.
>>
>>K-Mart and Wal-Mart are PRIVATE BUSINESSES. Freedom of expression
works
>>both ways, you know. Prodigy have every right to make an album with
the
>>lyric "smach my bitch up", and by the same token, any private
>>organization has every right to refuse to carry it.
>
>I can appreciate your free-market philosophy, but I think with the
>case of large department stores it is different. You may live in a
>in smaller communities in America, these stores like K-Mart and
>Wal-Mart, come and build big stores that kill off all the small family
>run businesses in the downtown of that community, simply because they
>cannot compete with the lower prices these megastores are able to
>offer, because of the economy of scale.
>
>monopoly, like a government run store in an communist country.
>Therefore, in a culture where freedom of expression is allowed and
>supported, it is inappropriate for a megastore to make
>political/artistic decisions.
>
No monopoly here. You can mail order, internet-order, travel, etc. to
get the desired product. There is no possible way that K-Mart's
practices can violate a first amendment right, as it is neither a
branch of the government or a government supported agency.
Furthermore, even if K-Mart somehow WAS a branch of the government, the
only first amendment right possibly being violated is the owner of the
rights in The Prodigy's album -- Maverick Records -- as all rights and
uses pertaining to ownership in a sound recording are typically
transfered by the artist to the label as part of the recording
contract.
Only Maverick records would have standing to raise a first amendment
argument, as while the first amendment does give you a right to
diseminate information, it gives you no right to receive it.
Matt P
Robert Mashlan
ltri...@ix.netcom.com(Matt B Parisi) wrote:
>>When this happens, the K-Mart or Wal-Mart is becomes a defacto
>>monopoly, like a government run store in an communist country.
>>Therefore, in a culture where freedom of expression is allowed and
>>supported, it is inappropriate for a megastore to make
>>political/artistic decisions.
>>
>
>No monopoly here. You can mail order, internet-order, travel, etc. to
>get the desired product. There is no possible way that K-Mart's
>practices can violate a first amendment right, as it is neither a
>branch of the government or a government supported agency.
Yes, all those are a possibility, except not everyone has a credit
card, or a computer, or a way to travel to the big city on a whim to
buy records. Since I do not live in a big city, I do most of my
records shopping via the internet and mail-order, and I've very glad
that I have that choice. However, it is nice just to go into a cool
record store, look at the covers to the CDs, check out the music they
might be playing in the store, talk with the record store employee
about music (as long as they aren't an asshole), which is something
you don't get with mail order, or you get in the music department of
K-Mart.
When K-Mart or Walmart comes to town and runs the cool record stores
out of business, and the decisions are made on what is going to be
sold by a board of directors (usually white, upper class males), how
is this board of directors different from a group of managers at a
government bureaucracy called "The People's Department of Art and
Culture"?
Robert Mashlan
bart.me...@tornado.be (Bart Lateur) wrote:
>Well, I've heard is part of (ore based on) a larger phrase, "(I'm) like
>a pimp that smacks his bitch up". Not women in general, but prostitutes.
>And thus, that's REALLY smacking up. I don't like the idea of that
>image.
No, the UMCs rap is a freestyle about Kool Keith's rapping skills.
Freestyle meaning that the words come from the top of his head. When
he said "change my pitch up/smack my bitch up/like a pimp", his
"bitch" is his freestyle rap. Now, the metaphor is a very disturbing
image to mostly any white person that lives in the white suburbs,
because you just don't see prostitutes and pimps and the violence
(except portrayed on television) But in the world where Kool Keith
came from, this is just a common harsh image from the backdrop of his
world, right or wrong.
It's the same kind of thing where white people and white culture has a
big problem with gangsta rap. Gangsta rappers are just rapping about
what life is like in their culture, right or wrong, and alot of white
people just don't want to know about it.
Robert Mashlan
JackieBlue <god...@planetc.com> wrote:
>No... that's a pretty far-fetched step, in fact. I don't see Wal-Mart
>yaking the new Wu-Tang CD (it sells too well). And the actions of
>Wal-Mart aren't going to seriously affect the distribution of records in
>this country.
To conform to Wal-Mart policy, there are two different versions of the
new Wu-Tang CDs. One with all the words edited out, and an explicit
version. The "clean" version is the only one available in Wal-Mart.
There's a lot of rap records that do this. It's kinda funny to hear
a clean version, because when they really get going with the
"offensive" words, it sound like the CD player's fucked up. It's
pretty unfortunate that they have to do this to conform to this
puritanical code, but anyone with half a brain can fill in the missing
words and figure out what the song is about.
I'm sure that anybody that calls Wu-Tang and other rappers sellouts
for doing this so that they can sell their records at Wal Mart doesn't
have the slightest understanding what it's like to live in destitution
in the projects.
Binky, the performing seal
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:43:52 GMT, rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan)
wrote:
>Yes, all those are a possibility, except not everyone has a credit
>card, or a computer, or a way to travel to the big city on a whim to
>buy records. Since I do not live in a big city, I do most of my
>records shopping via the internet and mail-order, and I've very glad
>that I have that choice. However, it is nice just to go into a cool
>record store, look at the covers to the CDs, check out the music they
>might be playing in the store, talk with the record store employee
>about music (as long as they aren't an asshole), which is something
>you don't get with mail order, or you get in the music department of
>K-Mart.
>
>When K-Mart or Walmart comes to town and runs the cool record stores
>out of business, and the decisions are made on what is going to be
>sold by a board of directors (usually white, upper class males), how
>is this board of directors different from a group of managers at a
>government bureaucracy called "The People's Department of Art and
>Culture"?
Exactly what I'm saying!
Kevin C. Welch and Bob Dawson: take note.
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
Crazy Persi
First of all, I don't shop at K-MART.
Second of all, anyone who goes to K-MART for their music is seriously missing
a loose screw.
--
In My CD Changer/Stereo:
"Kundun" - Soundtrack
Led Zeppelion - BBC Sessions
Led Zeppelin - III
Matt B Parisi
In
<D5B0B66CEF4908FE.F7D2E9EE...@library-proxy.airne
>
>>>When this happens, the K-Mart or Wal-Mart is becomes a defacto
>>>monopoly, like a government run store in an communist country.
>>>Therefore, in a culture where freedom of expression is allowed and
>>>supported, it is inappropriate for a megastore to make
>>>political/artistic decisions.
>>>
>>
>>No monopoly here. You can mail order, internet-order, travel, etc.
to
>>get the desired product. There is no possible way that K-Mart's
>>practices can violate a first amendment right, as it is neither a
>>branch of the government or a government supported agency.
>
>card, or a computer, or a way to travel to the big city on a whim to
>buy records. Since I do not live in a big city, I do most of my
>records shopping via the internet and mail-order, and I've very glad
>that I have that choice. However, it is nice just to go into a cool
>record store, look at the covers to the CDs, check out the music they
>might be playing in the store, talk with the record store employee
>about music (as long as they aren't an asshole), which is something
>you don't get with mail order, or you get in the music department of
>K-Mart.
I really understand your points and I'll say up front that it does suck
to live in a place where there are no cool record stores to buy
non-mainstream music, and it sucks even more when a place like K-Mart
needlessly curtails your options. This, unfortunately, is just the
by-product of choosing to live in the boon-docks. In many less
populated parts of middle America, getting good CDs is the least of
your worries. There probably is no fresh seafood for miles; (should
the local groceries be forced to truck it in?); no good Italian
restaraunts (should K-Mart's cafeteria be forced prepare chicken
marsala because serving only hot-dogs is immoral?) no new car
dealerships, etc. etc. etc. A dearth of available consumer goods is an
accross-the-board issue when one chooses to live in the less-populated
parts of our country.
Again, CDs is almost no worry at all -- at least they are small, cheap,
and can easily be ordered through the mail. Try doing the same, as
cost effective, for crab legs, Italian food, or a new cadillac.
As far as not having a computer or a credit card, well, everything is
tougher on the poor, buying CDs included.
>When K-Mart or Walmart comes to town and runs the cool record stores
>out of business, and the decisions are made on what is going to be
>sold by a board of directors (usually white, upper class males),
this is a case of needlessly bringing up the issue of class and race.
The white, upper-class males certainly are NOT selecting the cultural
media that they wish their communities to consume. They are getting
inventory based on what sells, period: except for extremely rare
exceptions like the current one. Claiming that there is a racial issue
behind the "ban" of The Prodigy is just asinine.
Frankly, a song called "Smack My Bitch Up," including lyrics
consistinng of nothing more than the repeated phrase in the title, is
practically begging to be banned retail outlets who have a history of
caring about such things.
In a rural town that is 95% white, I would expect nothing more or less
than a music-store selection of mostly white artists. Purposely not
caryying black artists is not racism, it is smart marketing. Likewise,
you can go into virtually any inner-city record store and be nearly
unable to purchase much by a white artist. This, also, isn't racism,
it is catering the market.
Matt P
Robert Mashlan
ltri...@ix.netcom.com(Matt B Parisi) wrote:
>>When K-Mart or Walmart comes to town and runs the cool record stores
>>out of business, and the decisions are made on what is going to be
>>sold by a board of directors (usually white, upper class males),
>
>this is a case of needlessly bringing up the issue of class and race.
>The white, upper-class males certainly are NOT selecting the cultural
>media that they wish their communities to consume. They are getting
>inventory based on what sells, period: except for extremely rare
>exceptions like the current one. Claiming that there is a racial issue
>behind the "ban" of The Prodigy is just asinine.
Has Matchbox 20 been banned from K-Mart/Walmart, even though they do
have a hit song that directly and unambiguously refers to beating his
girlfriend up? Keep in mind that this is a mainstream white rock
band. Prodigy is a multi-racial band, which takes quite a bit from
hip-hop, including the vocalist behind the sample.
Remember the outrage over Ice-T's "Cop Killer"? The even had
quintessential white male, Charlton Heston, in front in of the Warner
Brothers board of directors reciting these terrible lyrics? Ice-T's
whole point was it was a double standard, he wrote the "Cop Killer"
from the point of view of a fictional character, a serial killer who's
thing is killing fucked-up cops. Likewise, Arnold Swarzenegger,
another quintessential white male, portrayed a robot that slaughtered
a stationful of police in a movie, and there wasn't a huge outcry over
that.
Why is it they hold congressional hearings on how gangsta rap is
ruining society (because white kids listen to it), when they don't
hold hearings on ultra-violent movies like the Terminator or Natural
Born Killers, created by white people for other white people.
There's clearly a double standard in american culture, one set of
rules for whites, and one set of rules for blacks, and your are
willfully ignorant if you don't recognize that.
>Frankly, a song called "Smack My Bitch Up," including lyrics
>consistinng of nothing more than the repeated phrase in the title, is
>practically begging to be banned retail outlets who have a history of
>caring about such things.
>In a rural town that is 95% white, I would expect nothing more or less
>than a music-store selection of mostly white artists. Purposely not
>caryying black artists is not racism, it is smart marketing. Likewise,
>you can go into virtually any inner-city record store and be nearly
>unable to purchase much by a white artist. This, also, isn't racism,
>it is catering the market.
So the segregated "race" labels and "race" radio stations from the
50's and before just might be a good idea bring back? Smart
marketing? That will keep those white kids from listening to black
music. You can force them to buy Elvis and Pat Boone records of
covers of black music that's acceptable for white people to listen to.
That will keep the white girls from wanting to have sex with black
men.
In case you haven't been paying attention, this is 90's, and more
white people than you think do listen to and buy music made by blacks.
How do you think albums by black people make it to number 1 on the
charts? Wake up! Jeeez...
Bart Lateur
rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan) wrote:
>To conform to Wal-Mart policy, there are two different versions of the
>new Wu-Tang CDs. One with all the words edited out, and an explicit
>version. The "clean" version is the only one available in Wal-Mart.
>There's a lot of rap records that do this. It's kinda funny to hear
>a clean version, because when they really get going with the
>"offensive" words, it sound like the CD player's fucked up. It's
>pretty unfortunate that they have to do this to conform to this
>puritanical code, but anyone with half a brain can fill in the missing
>words and figure out what the song is about.
I know what you mean. Here it's the same situtaion with P.F.Project's
"Choose Life", from the second Trainspotting soundtrack. In the rap, the
guy spices up his lyrics with the word "Fuckin'" all the time (about
every 5th word). Everytime it has been faded out. Sounds really stupid.
Bart.
Bart Lateur
rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan) wrote:
>I can appreciate your free-market philosophy, but I think with the
>case of large department stores it is different. You may live in a
>big city where you have lots of choices where you can shop. However,
>in smaller communities in America, these stores like K-Mart and
>Wal-Mart, come and build big stores that kill off all the small family
>run businesses in the downtown of that community, simply because they
>cannot compete with the lower prices these megastores are able to
>offer, because of the economy of scale.
>
>When this happens, the K-Mart or Wal-Mart is becomes a defacto
>monopoly, like a government run store in an communist country.
>Therefore, in a culture where freedom of expression is allowed and
>supported, it is inappropriate for a megastore to make
>political/artistic decisions.
I know what you mean, but I don't think you need to worry about that for
too much.
We have had pretty much the same situation here (Ghent, Belgium, Europe)
for over twelve years, with FNAC, an international, originally French,
chain trying to do the small business in.
Well, the current situation is that now we have over twice as many
interesting record shops than ten years ago.
Two new shops (of the alternative/indie style) in one street, have
opened up during the last month.
This situation is possible because FNAC only stores stuff they're pretty
sure will sell. So there's a really huge gap left there for the
not-for-the-masses stuff. And that is what these new shops are amining
at. With good prospects.
About those low prices in the large shops: well, it won't stay that way.
FNAC started out being really cheap. Now that they feel they draw enough
customers (i.e. when they think the cometetition is killed off; it's a
constant rush hour in that shop), they're not cheap any more. I think
that eventually you may expect the same situtation in *Mart.
Bart.
Matt B Parisi
In
<2CDD4302C1FA667A.42217287...@library-proxy.airne
>
>>>When K-Mart or Walmart comes to town and runs the cool record stores
>>>out of business, and the decisions are made on what is going to be
>>>sold by a board of directors (usually white, upper class males),
>>
>>this is a case of needlessly bringing up the issue of class and race.
>>The white, upper-class males certainly are NOT selecting the cultural
>>media that they wish their communities to consume. They are getting
>>inventory based on what sells, period: except for extremely rare
>>exceptions like the current one. Claiming that there is a racial
issue
>>behind the "ban" of The Prodigy is just asinine.
>
>Has Matchbox 20 been banned from K-Mart/Walmart, even though they do
>have a hit song that directly and unambiguously refers to beating his
>girlfriend up? Keep in mind that this is a mainstream white rock
>band. Prodigy is a multi-racial band, which takes quite a bit from
>hip-hop, including the vocalist behind the sample.
>
>Remember the outrage over Ice-T's "Cop Killer"? The even had
>quintessential white male, Charlton Heston, in front in of the Warner
>Brothers board of directors reciting these terrible lyrics? Ice-T's
>whole point was it was a double standard, he wrote the "Cop Killer"
>from the point of view of a fictional character, a serial killer who's
>thing is killing fucked-up cops.
Oh, please. Listen to ALL of Ice T's output (and I have the infamous
"cop killer" album, as well as "Iceberg" and "OG") and you see a clear
pattern of violence toward police advocated. I'm not saying this is
good or bad, I'm saying that the song Cop Killer obviously represented
Ice T's true feelings on the subject, and anyone who gets outraged
about such song lyrics has a perfectly legitimate target in Ice T.
Also, I don't see much of a racial double standard. Arnold movies
don't get picked on because Arnold is a huge contributor to the
Republican party. Hypocrisy, yes, but purely financial. Have Ice T
start funnelling his millions into Republican candidates, and watch the
criticism dry up from these people.
Likewise, Arnold Swarzenegger,
>another quintessential white male, portrayed a robot that slaughtered
>a stationful of police in a movie, and there wasn't a huge outcry over
>that.
See above.
>
>Why is it they hold congressional hearings on how gangsta rap is
>ruining society (because white kids listen to it), when they don't
>hold hearings on ultra-violent movies like the Terminator or Natural
>Born Killers, created by white people for other white people.
I fail to see how these movies were "created for white people."
Certainly, this idiotic comment invalidates your desire for people to
be exposed to music of other races, below.
>There's clearly a double standard in american culture, one set of
>rules for whites, and one set of rules for blacks, and your are
>willfully ignorant if you don't recognize that.
And you are living in the '50s. Grow up. This is the '90s. This kind
of thing may have been true once, but it is an ignorant fantasy to
persist in believing it.
Alex Cavaye
In article <349a5cba...@news.demon.co.uk>, Ad...@roblang.demon.co.uk (Adam Richards) wrote:
> The truth of the matter is that large areas of America are
>tarmacked over with vast seas of concrete where the only place you can
>buy anything is a K-Mart, and for a large proportion of the population
>there simply is no other choice; your "downtown" no longer exists for
>a high proportion of the population because K-Marts, etc., have put
>them out of business.
>
travel 2 hours in the bus to get to a city so i can pay a higher price for CDs
from an indy record shop. Yes, i could buy the same music here for cheaper
AND not have to travel 2 hours both ways, but i don't. If you're hypocritical
enough to be anti-K-Mart but still shop there your whole argument is defeated.
Why does K-Mart "kill off" all the indy stores in your town? Because YOU
shop there and support it!
And on top of that, it's YOUR CHOICE to live in some pathetic little village
which doesn't have indy stores. If you're not willing to take a bus to a
decent city AND you're not willing to actually move to a bigger city, you've
put YOURSELF in the situation where you can't buy FOTL. It's not K-Mart's
fault at all - they're just doing what they think will earn them money, you
can't condone them for that, it's THEIR CHOICE. And it's YOUR CHOICE to live
in a shit town and to shop from a shit store. So don't complain.
Alex
----- electronic love -----
http://huizen.dds.nl/~sturm
jay
Matt B Parisi wrote:
>
> In
> <2CDD4302C1FA667A.42217287...@library-proxy.airne
> s.net> rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan) writes:
> >
> >ltri...@ix.netcom.com(Matt B Parisi) wrote:
> >Has Matchbox 20 been banned from K-Mart/Walmart, even though they do
> >have a hit song that directly and unambiguously refers to beating his
> >girlfriend up? Keep in mind that this is a mainstream white rock
> >band. Prodigy is a multi-racial band, which takes quite a bit from
> >hip-hop, including the vocalist behind the sample.
> >
> >Remember the outrage over Ice-T's "Cop Killer"? The even had
> >quintessential white male, Charlton Heston, in front in of the Warner
> >Brothers board of directors reciting these terrible lyrics? Ice-T's
> >whole point was it was a double standard, he wrote the "Cop Killer"
> >from the point of view of a fictional character, a serial killer who's
> >thing is killing fucked-up cops.
>
> Oh, please. Listen to ALL of Ice T's output (and I have the infamous
> "cop killer" album, as well as "Iceberg" and "OG") and you see a clear
> pattern of violence toward police advocated. I'm not saying this is
> good or bad
>
> >There's clearly a double standard in american culture, one set of
> >rules for whites, and one set of rules for blacks, and your are
> >willfully ignorant if you don't recognize that.
>
> And you are living in the '50s. Grow up. This is the '90s. This kind
> of thing may have been true once, but it is an ignorant fantasy to
> persist in believing it.
Right, firstly, America has a race problem. That is undoubted. Its a
fact that cash per head for schools in ghetto areas of New York is less
than in richer areas. Its also a fact that there are obvious differences
in the types of culture, music included, that whites and blacks prefer.
Its the same in Britain but to a far lesser degree. Over here its not
unusual to like Wu-Tang, Blur and Miles Davis or some other seemingly
incongruous
mix.
This cultural divide in the US is to a large extent down to the fact
that the US radio stations are genre orientated. Rock stations play rock
(listened to mainly by whites) and black music stations play soul, RnB
etc etc. This explains the failure of bands like Fishbone who are black
and play rock(y) music. They aren't accepted in either group.
As for racism in music, well, I think it exists in both white and black
music. Stuff like Cop Killer IS out of order, immoral in fact, as Ice-T
has a duty not to incite violence against cops, however much he dresses
the song up as fiction. Same goes for Ice Cube with his song about
raping white women. Its racist, no other way to describe it. Which is a
pity as songs like that give rap a bad rep which it doesn't deserve as
most of it preaches unity, not division in society and doesn't simply
pin all of the problems on all white people; see stuff like Paris. To
get a good look at this sort of thing have a good listen to "Message to
the Messengers" by Gil Scott-Heron.
I agree that there is a lot of double standards about violence in the
arts but glamourising violence in rap doesn't make it right in films or
vice-versa.
jay
Binky, the performing seal
On 17 Dec 1997 19:58:42 GMT, "Anthony" <abe...@interlog.com> wrote:
>I think somebody who turned one shitty local store into multibillion
>business spread all over North and even South America can not be stupid. So
>- you and others like you boycott K-Mart because they banned the album
There are lots of other reasons to boycott K-Mart, but let's just say,
for the sake of argument, that you're right; carry on:
(
>which by the way sucks anyways ) - but think of all these "feminist ..."
>and " ... against violence" organizations which count thousands of members
>plus their families that could boycott K-Marts if they WERE selling the
>album. A simple math, man. And who on your opinion is more "valuable"
>customer for them - you that go and buy music once in a while - or some
>mother with 3 kids that fills up her van with K-Mart stuff every weekend
>for years ? Nah, man, they are FAR from being stupid.
OK, but if they could please both sorts, they'd be a lot less stupid;
that's the point. It is possible, via having an "adult" section of CDs
that have stickers on them saying "this item cannot be purchased by
anyone under the age of 16", or some such nonsense. Yeah, it does mean
the Prodigy CD (which doesn't suck, by the way) would be ghettoized,
but at least it could still be bought. If these Izuzu Trooper mums
don't agree to that, then fuck 'em.
Of course this won't happen, because it would require some thought and
effort on K-Mart's part - fat chance!
At the end of the day K-Mart can do what it likes, but they're still
losing money, and they're still stupid.
<Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
Adam Richards
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:29:06 GMT, st...@dds.nl (Alex Cavaye) wrote:
>In article <349a5cba...@news.demon.co.uk>, Ad...@roblang.demon.co.uk (Adam Richards) wrote:
>> The truth of the matter is that large areas of America are
>>tarmacked over with vast seas of concrete where the only place you can
>>buy anything is a K-Mart, and for a large proportion of the population
>>there simply is no other choice; your "downtown" no longer exists for
>>a high proportion of the population because K-Marts, etc., have put
>>them out of business.
>>
>So????? There are still stores around which *are* "masters of one trade".
Not everywhere, sorry.
>I
>travel 2 hours in the bus to get to a city so i can pay a higher price for CDs
>from an indy record shop.
Great that you've got the money to do that; not everybody does.
>Yes, i could buy the same music here for cheaper
>AND not have to travel 2 hours both ways, but i don't. If you're hypocritical
>enough to be anti-K-Mart but still shop there your whole argument is defeated.
> Why does K-Mart "kill off" all the indy stores in your town? Because YOU
>shop there and support it!
I don't do anything of the sort! Idiots who could easily shop
elsewhere, and get better products while they're at it do that - don't
accuse me of doing that, mate; I don't even live in America, but I
know what it's like because I have gone there many times. You better
check your facts or shut fuck up!
>And on top of that, it's YOUR CHOICE to live in some pathetic little village
>which doesn't have indy stores. If you're not willing to take a bus to a
Do you really check out what sort of record shops are in the area
before you buy a house? You are talking through your arse, go away.
Robbie Langton For Sci-Fi Cult TV Satire see:
http://www.roblang.demon.co.uk/fangrok/index.html
fnord
In article <34a58a17...@news.demon.co.uk>,
Binky, the performing seal <Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com> wrote:
>It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
>they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
I don't possibly see how K-Mart could disallow you from purchasing
this cd at any other store that had it in stock...
>hurting anyone else. It all comes down to crediting people with the
>intelligence to decide for themselves what they want out of life.
Which basically means that someone running a business should be able
to decide what items they sell...
>Ahem!! I used to live in an area of Long Island NY where the only
>place to buy records was K-Mart, so I refuse to believe your
>supposition is impossible.
There are a gambit of online cd stores now...so that shouldn't be a
problem either...
>>I don't think their actions will have any grave influence
>>over the fluctuations of the market and definately not lead to banning
>>of such material...
>Why are you defending this? It still sucks. What you are basically
>saying is, "yes, this sucks; please let it suck and leave it be."
I am not defending it...I am saying it sucks...and there are ways to
go about doing something about it...none of which you are doing...if
this really is something important to you I suggest you bring up the
adult section idea to someone who actually works there and see what
they say...good or bad I am sure it will give you some insight...
GOD
--
YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT
I AM NOT GOD
Robert Mashlan
ltri...@ix.netcom.com(Matt B Parisi) wrote:
>Oh, please. Listen to ALL of Ice T's output (and I have the infamous
>"cop killer" album, as well as "Iceberg" and "OG") and you see a clear
>pattern of violence toward police advocated.
Ok. All of Ice-T's output. New Jack City: Ice-T portrays an
undercover cop that takes down a murderous drug dealer. Players:
Ice-T portrays a hustler cooperating with the FBI. O.G. (an album you
say you have): track 11, "The House". Ice-T advocates calling a cop
to protect some kids being abused.
For someone who supposedly demonstrates a clear pattern of violence
toward the police, why would he do or say things like that?
Sure, Ice-T has a dislike of the way police do things in south central
LA, at least during the period where he grew up there. Fucked up
things like making sure they arrested at every young black man in the
area (on bullshit charges like jaywalking, if need be), whether they
were into criminal activity or not, just so they would have a dossier
on all of them.
>I'm not saying this is
>good or bad, I'm saying that the song Cop Killer obviously represented
>Ice T's true feelings on the subject, and anyone who gets outraged
>about such song lyrics has a perfectly legitimate target in Ice T.
I think you have a serious misunderstanding about his true feelings on
the subject.
Yes, Ice-T doesn't like fucked-up, corrupt asshole cops -- and he has
said that he supports police that do their job. And yes, he also says
he has no love for the other kind of police. And if you seriously
believe that he advocate for his fans to shoot police and face life
sentences and/or death sentences for it, I think you've lost touch
with reality more than you realize. If Ice-T actually goes out and
shoots a cop himself, then you just might have a point.
>>There's clearly a double standard in american culture, one set of
>>rules for whites, and one set of rules for blacks, and your are
>>willfully ignorant if you don't recognize that.
>
>And you are living in the '50s. Grow up. This is the '90s. This kind
>of thing may have been true once, but it is an ignorant fantasy to
>persist in believing it.
That's a big sack of shit. Believe there is no racism and trying to
dismiss it away doesn't make it not so. Approximately one third of
all black men in america are under the control of the corrections
system, either in prison or on parole (which is far greater than the
number of black men in college). Either you can make up some racist
bullshit about how black people are prone to criminal activity, or you
can realize there is a really serious problem in the way black people
are treated by whites.
It's an ignorant fantasy to persist in believe we have racial harmony.
Pete Thomas
bart.me...@tornado.be (Bart Lateur) wrote:
>>Especially since the lyric "Smack my Bitch Up" has nothing to do with
>>beating up women...it doesn't actually mean anything - it's just a
>>phrase.
>Well, I've heard is part of (ore based on) a larger phrase, "(I'm) like
>a pimp that smacks his bitch up". Not women in general, but prostitutes.
>And thus, that's REALLY smacking up. I don't like the idea of that
>image.
You're still wrong... when Kool Keith used the word 'smack', he
doesn't mean 'hit'. He's using 'smack' as a verb, which, in this
context, means to drug up the aforementioned prostitute with 'smack' -
better known as heroin.
Not-very-nice pimps have been known to do this, as it's said to make
their 'bitches' better at their, er, particular line of work, ahem.
While that's not such A Good Thing either, (in fact, quite possibly
worse) it's still amusing to see the knee-jerks carrying on with their
'violence-against-women' whining.
In the latest Prodigy interview NME, Liam says he is using the sample
as a street-slang phrase, that's it's all a metaphor for letting off
energy. Leeroy on the Prodigy interview disc says the 'bitch' is the
tune.
If anyone out there decides to hit their girlfriend after hearing this
song, then that's their own problem, NOT the Prodigy's.
Pete Thomas
st...@dds.nl (Alex Cavaye) wrote:
>So????? There are still stores around which *are* "masters of one trade". I
>travel 2 hours in the bus to get to a city so i can pay a higher price for CDs
>from an indy record shop.
Er, but you're not in America, so you're lucky.
>Yes, i could buy the same music here for cheaper
>AND not have to travel 2 hours both ways, but i don't. If you're hypocritical
>enough to be anti-K-Mart but still shop there your whole argument is defeated.
What if they can't get to any other stores?
> Why does K-Mart "kill off" all the indy stores in your town? Because YOU
>shop there and support it!
If they have no choice...
>And on top of that, it's YOUR CHOICE to live in some pathetic little village
>which doesn't have indy stores.
*WRONG*... wrong, wrong... oh-so wrong.
Not everyone chooses where they live. In fact, if I had the choice,
I'd be living in London, but 1) I ain't got the cash for the high
rent. 2) My living costs would be high.
>If you're not willing to take a bus to a decent city AND you're
>not willing to actually move to a bigger city, you've
>put YOURSELF in the situation where you can't buy FOTL.
Oh my.... <cries>...
We've reached the bottom of the barrel here, haven't we?
I can just see it now, in the estate agents:
"Suburban semi-detached house in middle-class area, 3 bedrooms, fitted
kitchen, central heating, double glazed windows, secure garage,
one-acre garden BUT NO NEARBY SHOPS WHERE YOU CAN BUY PRODIGY
ALBUMS!!"
>It's not K-Mart's fault at all - they're just doing what they think will earn them money,
Wrong. The Prodigy album is a very big seller. I'm sure you know the
band, y'know... Keef...Firestarter...'electronica'...twisted
firestarter. <grins>
One of the biggest selling albums globally this year, so the assholes
at K-mart can't make any excuses about 'losing money'.
>you can't condone them for that, it's THEIR CHOICE.
A very stupid choice.
>And it's YOUR CHOICE to live in a shit town and to shop from a shit store.
<sigh!>
That is one of the most stupidest statements I have ever read. So
laughable.
Anyway, I'm off to move to central London right now... or maybe Los
Angeles... or Paris... Tokyo... whatever I feel like... </sarcasm>
>So don't complain.
Of course, in 1930's Germany, when Adolf Hitler made it law to start
discriminating against Jews and other minority races, that was purely
the government's CHOICE. I suppose no-one should have complained, eh?
Adam Richards
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:59:09 GMT, pa...@watford-fc.demon.co.ukSPAMSUCKZ
(Pete Thomas) wrote:
(Very well)
Top words, excellently put....
Lord of deXness
Pete Thomas wrote:
>
> st...@dds.nl (Alex Cavaye) wrote:
>
> >Yes, i could buy the same music here for cheaper
> >AND not have to travel 2 hours both ways, but i don't. If you're hypocritical
> >enough to be anti-K-Mart but still shop there your whole argument is defeated.
>
> What if they can't get to any other stores?
>
Then that's too bad. K-Mart, as a BUSINESS, has absolutely NO moral
responsibility to carry everything on the face of the earth. By your
arguments, we should also be calling them fascist for not selling
every line of clothing that exists in the United States.
>
> >It's not K-Mart's fault at all - they're just doing what they think
> >will earn them money,
>
> Wrong. The Prodigy album is a very big seller. I'm sure you know the
> band, y'know... Keef...Firestarter...'electronica'...twisted
> firestarter. <grins>
>
> One of the biggest selling albums globally this year, so the assholes
> at K-mart can't make any excuses about 'losing money'.
>
Somehow, I seriously doubt that the Prodigy's US sales (which are the
only figures K-Mart would be looking at, anyway) can compare to those
of Puff Daddy, Mariah Carey, The Spice Girls' first album, or Garth
Brooks. I find it hard to believe you'd be this hopping mad if K-Mart
decided not to carry an album by a band that you hate.
And if you _really_ can't see why losing weekly/bi-weekly/monthly sales
on household items is more threatening than losing one-time sales of
an album, I suggest you brush up on your math.
>
> Of course, in 1930's Germany, when Adolf Hitler made it law to start
> discriminating against Jews and other minority races, that was purely
> the government's CHOICE. I suppose no-one should have complained, eh?
>
This is such a fatuous statement that my mind is boggling. Comparing
K-Mart's decision to drop _Fat of the Land_ to the Holocaust is
melodramatic, inaccurate, and trivializes the Holocaust. The only way
this analogy could hold any type of water would be if the US government
were to propose that everyone who owns a copy of the album should be put
in a concentration camp. Since this is a patently ridiculous scenario,
I suggest you deal with the real issue (You're pissed that you can't by
the Prodigy's album at K-Mart) and stop saying things that make you look
stupid.
deX!
bob dawson
Adam Richards wrote:
>
>
> Do you say this is good, or are you just being pedantic?
No I don't think it is good. I think it is truly tragic that many towns
are becoming a shell of what they once were; are now only a place for
people to work during the week and then the place is desolate the rest
of the time. I live in a place like this. When I need to buy "cheap
mass produced crap" as my roomie put it, I go to Wal-Mart. When I spend
money on anything else, I go to the shops that best cater to my needs at
the lowest price--and my needs include helping the downtown of
Blacksburg to survive.
> your "downtown" no longer exists for
> a high proportion of the population because K-Marts, etc., have put
> them out of business.
This is my point: Once there were downtowns and you had to go there to
shop, work, everything. Those peole that didn't live there still went
there to do business. Then a K-Mart opened on the edge of town, in what
we call suburbs now, and people started shopping there *for whatever
reason*. Pretty soon because choose to shop at K-Mart the small stores
downtown go out of business, the post-office (say, when it needs to
expand) builds a new location out there too, the banks build branches
out there cause that's where people are now shopping, etc. This is not
because K-Mart existed, it is because people *chose* to shop there.
> These big K-Mart stores spring up and suddenly
> they become meccas for busy, undemanding consumers who like the
> convenience of doing all their shopping at one big store, instead of
> at several small ones. The big store can't cater to every taste; it is
> a "jack of all trades and a master of none".
This says nothing as to whether it is K-Mart's "fault" (as it is being
suggested by most of these postings) or not that the small businesses
leave. In fact, you are arguing exactly what I am saying.
> K-Mart sell what
> they sell cheaper (by and large); therefore, smaller shops go out of
> business. If you're a discerning customer living in an area where
> K-Mart has cornered the market, your choice is severely limited as a
> result.
And the small shops go out of business due to a lack of demand for their
goods--or more to the point because at the quantity they would be able
to sell it doesn't cover their costs. Why is this K-Mart's fault?
>
> So I don't agree it's a matter of choice for some people.
ON this point I will concede that you are correct. Some people have
little to no choice in their immediate area--it's either K-Mart or
Wal-Mart. However....
> And what if
> you don't have loads of money to buy gas to go "downtown", anyway?
> <Ad...@roblang.demon.co.uk>
I don't know about gasoline demand in the UK (much different prices) but
in the US gasoline is one of the most inelastic goods that is sold--i.e.
people will buy however much they need no matter the price. Virtually
everyone can get "downtown."
My whole point is that you cannot blame these super-stores for running
other businesses out. It is the consumers that do it. Particularly
here in the US where people preference is usually to get what they want
at the lowest price, the end. They don't care otherwise.
Joshua Levenson
Pete Thomas wrote in message
<882214946.18706.1...@news.demon.co.uk>...
><fri...@vaxxine.com> wrote:
>
>>All I can say is that it's funny how everyone is talking about this now.
>>The cd came out in June.
>>The Prodigy suck, they used to be good, there best album was in '94. All
>>the true Prodigy fans know this.
>
>I'm a true Prodigy fan, and you're talking shit.
>
I'm Sorry
>>What Prodigy is doing is just to get promotion for there album,
>>because they know that this is the only way to
>>get there album to sell.
>
>Oh yeah, like they have never sold well before! Get a grip, loser!
>
They didn't you bozo
>>The music sucks and the regualar Prodigy fans have stopped listening to
them,
>
>Wrong again.
No not wrong.
>
>>so they sell an image to people looking for
>>something 'so called rebellious'
>
>Better than grinning and gurning to the days of cartoon samples.
>
Another typical mainstream loser who has unfortunately found his way into
the "Rave Scene" next thing you know we will be jamming away to Nirvana
remixes.
>--
>Prodigy FAQ maintainer.
bob dawson
Binky, the performing seal wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:43:52 GMT, rmas...@r2m.com (Robert Mashlan)
> >When K-Mart or Walmart comes to town and runs the cool record stores
> >out of business, and the decisions are made on what is going to be
> >is this board of directors different from a group of managers at a
> >government bureaucracy called "The People's Department of Art and
> >Culture"?
>
> Exactly what I'm saying!
>
> Kevin C. Welch and Bob Dawson: take note.
> <Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com>
I'm taking note Binky. I'll tell you the difference. K-Mart has a
bottom line to meet. If people don't like their products and stop
buying them, K-Mart will change their behaviour. The problem is that it
is people on the margin (in the usual sense, not economic) that are
getting screwed because they don't constitute a large enough market
share to have any swing. So it doesn't matter if every Prodigy fan in
Blacksburg complains because the Garth Brooks fans who have no problem
with K-Mart selling guns yet believe that a disc from that group of
"faggots" from England that sing about hitting their gf (I say that
becuase its the popular perception--I've never heard the song) ought not
be on the shelf have a much larger voice.
I must hand it to everyone, this is one of the most interesting
discussions I've had in a newsgroup in quite some time. Unfortunately I
leave town tomorrow for four weeks and won't be able to participate. So
if you see no responses from me you know why.
bob
bob dawson
Robert Mashlan wrote:
> Has Matchbox 20 been banned from K-Mart/Walmart, even though they do
> have a hit song that directly and unambiguously refers to beating his
> girlfriend up? Keep in mind that this is a mainstream white rock
> band. Prodigy is a multi-racial band, which takes quite a bit from
> hip-hop, including the vocalist behind the sample.
>
> There's clearly a double standard in american culture, one set of
> rules for whites, and one set of rules for blacks, and your are
> willfully ignorant if you don't recognize that.
>
While I will never try to argue that there is no racism in this country
(I witness it here everyday in the good ole south, and I saw plenty in
the northeast), I really don't think this is a race issue at all.
These stores are trying to appeal to "family" shoppers. And they know
that if they make a public statement saying that they aren't going to
carry a disc because it has what many people perceive to be a
mysoginistic song on it, they are doing it because they think it will
draw in more costumers. Prodigy fan's and/or people who feel that this
is a form of cencorship are a much smaller % or their annual revenue
then the people who will respond to this the way they hope.
You can witness racism everyday here, but I'm convinced that this is not
an example of it. This is greed, pure and simple.
bob
have a nice christmas/chanuka/kwanzaa/ramadaz/solstice everyone
Pete Thomas
"Joshua Levenson" <leve...@vnet.net> wrote:
>>>The Prodigy suck, they used to be good, there best album was in '94. All
>>>the true Prodigy fans know this.
>>I'm a true Prodigy fan, and you're talking shit.
>I'm Sorry
So are your parents.
>>>What Prodigy is doing is just to get promotion for there album,
>>>because they know that this is the only way to
>>>get there album to sell.
>>Oh yeah, like they have never sold well before! Get a grip, loser!
>They didn't you bozo
Er, excuse me? Countless top ten hits, fool. See the Prodigy FAQ.
Prodigy have been a household name since August 1991.
No big deal to people who know the score.
>>>The music sucks and the regualar Prodigy fans have stopped listening to
>them,
>>
>>Wrong again.
>No not wrong.
Prove.
>>>so they sell an image to people looking for
>>>something 'so called rebellious'
>>
>>Better than grinning and gurning to the days of cartoon samples.
>Another typical mainstream loser who has unfortunately found his way into
>the "Rave Scene"
Sorry, I'm EX-RAVE. ie: I've evolved.
What about you? Still wearing white-gloves and dropping dog biscuits?
Sorrry, that scene is dead. Finished. Gone.
>next thing you know we will be jamming away to Nirvana remixes.
<yawn>
You're just pretending to be an old Prodigy fan. You're not.
--
From alt.music.prodigy-the
Pete Thomas
Lord of deXness <djp...@bbn.com> wrote:
>> What if they can't get to any other stores?
>Then that's too bad.
Oh that's right. Long live K-mart and it's ever-increasing monopoly.
>K-Mart, as a BUSINESS, has absolutely NO moral
>responsibility to carry everything on the face of the earth. By your
>arguments, we should also be calling them fascist for not selling
>every line of clothing that exists in the United States.
That's not my argument.
>> >It's not K-Mart's fault at all - they're just doing what they think
>> >will earn them money,
>> Wrong. The Prodigy album is a very big seller. I'm sure you know the
>> band, y'know... Keef...Firestarter...'electronica'...twisted
>> firestarter. <grins>
>> One of the biggest selling albums globally this year, so the assholes
>> at K-mart can't make any excuses about 'losing money'.
>Somehow, I seriously doubt that the Prodigy's US sales (which are the
>only figures K-Mart would be looking at, anyway) can compare to those
>of Puff Daddy, Mariah Carey, The Spice Girls' first album, or Garth
>Brooks.
True, the Prodigy aren't as big-selling as those. (Phew!) But it sure
as hell ain't a commercial death-wish. It would be profitable for them
to stock FOTL, so what's their problem?
>I find it hard to believe you'd be this hopping mad if K-Mart
>decided not to carry an album by a band that you hate.
I don't like Sheryl Crow, but I like her anti K-Mart ethos.
>And if you _really_ can't see why losing weekly/bi-weekly/monthly sales
>on household items is more threatening than losing one-time sales of
>an album, I suggest you brush up on your math.
*sigh*
>> Of course, in 1930's Germany, when Adolf Hitler made it law to start
>> discriminating against Jews and other minority races, that was purely
>> the government's CHOICE. I suppose no-one should have complained, eh?
>This is such a fatuous statement that my mind is boggling. Comparing
>K-Mart's decision to drop _Fat of the Land_ to the Holocaust is
>melodramatic, inaccurate, and trivializes the Holocaust. The only way
>this analogy could hold any type of water would be if the US government
>were to propose that everyone who owns a copy of the album should be put
>in a concentration camp. Since this is a patently ridiculous scenario,
>I suggest you deal with the real issue (You're pissed that you can't by
>the Prodigy's album at K-Mart)
What, *me?* From the UK?
>and stop saying things that make you look
>stupid.
Oh it was a severe analogy, but there was some truth in it.
And I don't look as stupid as Alex's comments.
Josh
The funny thing is, the Prodigy album is advertised in this weeks K-mart ad,
for $11.88.
>Has Matchbox 20 been banned from K-Mart/Walmart, even though they do
>have a hit song that directly and unambiguously refers to beating his
>girlfriend up? Keep in mind that this is a mainstream white rock
>band. Prodigy is a multi-racial band, which takes quite a bit from
>hip-hop, including the vocalist behind the sample.
But Matchbox 20 said that it really wasn't about violence towards women,
that is was a mental thing. Oh yeah, and like you said, they're white.
RHS Linux User
In article <349814...@vt.edu>, bob dawson <rda...@vt.edu> wrote:
>> However,
>> in smaller communities in America, these stores like K-Mart and
>> Wal-Mart, come and build big stores that kill off all the small family
>> run businesses in the downtown of that community, simply because they
>> cannot compete with the lower prices these megastores are able to
>> offer, because of the economy of scale.
>>
>
>
>right you are wrong in saying that the "small family run businesses" are
>being killed off becuase of what Wal-Mart or K-Mart does. They die
>becuase *consumers* choose to shop at the super stores rather than
>downtown.
>
Nonetheless:
if you live in many towns, you effectively have no choice
but to shop at the local superstore, because everything
else has gone away ... and so the superstore effectively
has a monopoly.
RHS Linux User
In article <67b8km$r...@news.usq.edu.au>, Alex Cavaye <st...@dds.nl> wrote:
>In article <349a5cba...@news.demon.co.uk>, Ad...@roblang.demon.co.uk (Adam Richards) wrote:
>So????? There are still stores around which *are* "masters of one trade". I
>travel 2 hours in the bus to get to a city so i can pay a higher price for CDs
I think you fail to understand the situation in the United States;
there are quite frankly places where it would be a _four or five
hour drive_ to a city which has an indy record shop. By bus,
that'll probably be 10 hours.
> Why does K-Mart "kill off" all the indy stores in your town? Because YOU
>shop there and support it!
That doesn't follow. I refuse to shop at the local crown books --
but enough people shop there that it is able to turn a profit.
>And on top of that, it's YOUR CHOICE to live in some pathetic little village
>which doesn't have indy stores. If you're not willing to take a bus to a
It is if i'm over 18. But if I grew up in a pathetic little village
without indy stores, and can still get free rent there, and
am going to college and don't have a large income ... i'm better
off staying there.
And i'm still subject to a monopoly.
RHS Linux User
>Somehow, I seriously doubt that the Prodigy's US sales (which are the
>only figures K-Mart would be looking at, anyway) can compare to those
>of Puff Daddy, Mariah Carey, The Spice Girls' first album, or Garth
>Brooks. I find it hard to believe you'd be this hopping mad if K-Mart
>decided not to carry an album by a band that you hate.
>
>And if you _really_ can't see why losing weekly/bi-weekly/monthly sales
>on household items is more threatening than losing one-time sales of
>an album, I suggest you brush up on your math.
Grant (a) that KMART has an effective monopoly in certain areas.
If that is true, the second paragraph above is nonsensical;
if they have an effective monopoly, they won't lose sales
due to selling the album they claim will cause them to
lose sales ...
so what's really happening is they're saying "we don't like
[x], so we're not going to sell it", which wouldn't be
that bad, if there were other places to go to buy it ...
Robert Mashlan
Lord of deXness <djp...@bbn.com> wrote:
>> Of course, in 1930's Germany, when Adolf Hitler made it law to start
>> discriminating against Jews and other minority races, that was purely
>> the government's CHOICE. I suppose no-one should have complained, eh?
>>
>
>This is such a fatuous statement that my mind is boggling. Comparing
>K-Mart's decision to drop _Fat of the Land_ to the Holocaust is
>melodramatic, inaccurate, and trivializes the Holocaust. The only way
>this analogy could hold any type of water would be if the US government
>were to propose that everyone who owns a copy of the album should be put
>in a concentration camp. Since this is a patently ridiculous scenario,
>I suggest you deal with the real issue (You're pissed that you can't by
>the Prodigy's album at K-Mart) and stop saying things that make you look
>stupid.
Actually, whenever the Nazis are mentioned, it is supposed to mean the
thread is over.
Robert Mashlan
bob dawson <rda...@vt.edu> wrote:
>These stores are trying to appeal to "family" shoppers. And they know
>that if they make a public statement saying that they aren't going to
>carry a disc because it has what many people perceive to be a
>mysoginistic song on it, they are doing it because they think it will
>draw in more costumers. Prodigy fan's and/or people who feel that this
>is a form of cencorship are a much smaller % or their annual revenue
>then the people who will respond to this the way they hope.
If that is really the case, then they should pull all their Matchbox
20 albums, and about half of the country section, if ridding the store
of allegedly misogynistic songs to appeal to family shoppers is the
goal. Otherwise, it's a case of singling out certain bands based on
the color of some of the member's skin and/or musical influences.
Robert Mashlan
"Josh" <tel...@dnc.net> wrote:
>>Has Matchbox 20 been banned from K-Mart/Walmart, even though they do
>>have a hit song that directly and unambiguously refers to beating his
>>girlfriend up? Keep in mind that this is a mainstream white rock
>>band. Prodigy is a multi-racial band, which takes quite a bit from
>>hip-hop, including the vocalist behind the sample.
>
>But Matchbox 20 said that it really wasn't about violence towards women,
>that is was a mental thing. Oh yeah, and like you said, they're white.
Are you saying that what he's really saying is that he's pushing
around his mental thing? Unless he's gay, his lyrics are talking
about his desire to push his girlfriend down.
Matt B Parisi
In
<6D56AB5015C677BE.2BAE6CFC...@library-proxy.airne
>Sure, Ice-T has a dislike of the way police do things in south central
>LA, at least during the period where he grew up there. Fucked up
>things like making sure they arrested at every young black man in the
>area (on bullshit charges like jaywalking, if need be), whether they
>were into criminal activity or not, just so they would have a dossier
>on all of them.
>
>>I'm not saying this is
>>good or bad, I'm saying that the song Cop Killer obviously
represented
>>Ice T's true feelings on the subject, and anyone who gets outraged
>>about such song lyrics has a perfectly legitimate target in Ice T.
>
>I think you have a serious misunderstanding about his true feelings on
>the subject.
>
>Yes, Ice-T doesn't like fucked-up, corrupt asshole cops -- and he has
>said that he supports police that do their job. And yes, he also says
>he has no love for the other kind of police. And if you seriously
>believe that he advocate for his fans to shoot police and face life
>sentences and/or death sentences for it, I think you've lost touch
>with reality more than you realize. If Ice-T actually goes out and
>shoots a cop himself, then you just might have a point.
>
>>>There's clearly a double standard in american culture, one set of
>>>rules for whites, and one set of rules for blacks, and your are
>>>willfully ignorant if you don't recognize that.
>>
>>And you are living in the '50s. Grow up. This is the '90s. This
kind
>>of thing may have been true once, but it is an ignorant fantasy to
>>persist in believing it.
>
>That's a big sack of shit. Believe there is no racism and trying to
>dismiss it away doesn't make it not so. Approximately one third of
>all black men in america are under the control of the corrections
>system, either in prison or on parole (which is far greater than the
>number of black men in college). Either you can make up some racist
>bullshit about how black people are prone to criminal activity, or you
>can realize there is a really serious problem in the way black people
>are treated by whites.
Just look at the unbelievable stuff you are saying! We started out
talking about how K-Mart deemed a Prodigy album too immoral to stock
and you somehow turned this into a manifesto about racism in America.
Here are the only facts relevant to the issue at hand:
Fact: K-Mart's "ban" of the Prodigy album is completely unrelated to
any race issue. While this band is technically multi-racial, they are
associated almost entirely with their white lead singer and bandleader,
and their music (British Techno) is a genre predominated by white
males.
Fact: K-Mart's decision-makers about whether or not to stock this
album are not, as you claim, working on an agenda to enforce a
clearly-defined white/male/conservative artistic ideology on the
American public. K-Mart typically stocks any domestic album in the top
100 regardless of genre, with the apparent exception of albums that
contain songs that are as blatatntly degrading as "Smack my Bitch Up."
K-mart couldn't give a rat's ass what the color of the leading
album-sellers are, as long as they are making their millions.
You project yourself as a person with an itch to turn any conversation
into a foolish attempt to perpetuate the fantasy that there is some
kind of white majority that makes it their business to "keep the black
man down" at every turn. There is a disproportionate number of black
males in prison because they commit a disproportionate amount of the
crimes, period. I don't know why this is -- it's almost certainly
cultural and not racial -- but it is a fact nontheless.
>
>It's an ignorant fantasy to persist in believe we have racial harmony.
It is a far cry to turn my doubts about a purposeful racism on the part
of K-Mart CEOs and my noticing the obvious violence in Ice T lyrics and
claim that I believe that there is racial harmony in America. Of
course, there isn't. However, institutional racism no longer exists in
this nation, and you appear to be the kind of person ready to find it
at every turn. I hope that you do not use your imagination to find
racism as the cause of all of your life's failures. Ultimately, you
will grow up to be a bitter person who never bettered himself.
Furthermore, individuals with your warped perceptions of reality will
likely create "cry wolf" scenarios for people in those instances where
they really have experienced discrimination.
Matt P
Binky, the performing seal
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:29:06 GMT, st...@dds.nl (A complete, flaming
asshole) wrote:
>they're just doing what they think will earn them money, you
>can't condone them for that, it's THEIR CHOICE.
"Condone"? I think you'll find that to "condone" something means to
accept it or forgive it, and not what you mean at all if we are to
take your context as gospel. The word I think you wanted was
"condemn".
>And it's YOUR CHOICE to live
>in a shit town and to shop from a shit store. So don't complain.
And I suppose it's your choice, also, to be an ignorant twat who talks
through his arse.
Flamers note the address below:
The picture of him is very funny, too!! Looks a COMPLETE tosspot!!
Samantha R.
Robert Mashlan wrote:
> I'm sure that anybody that calls Wu-Tang and other rappers sellouts
> for doing this so that they can sell their records at Wal Mart doesn't
> have the slightest understanding what it's like to live in destitution
> in the projects.
Okay, not sure about all other rappers, but Wu-Tang are LOADED AND
ROLLING IN MONEY, millionaires. So, destitution in the projects is not
even a question.
Maybe they're selling out, maybe they aren't. But anyone who buys their
music at Kmart can't be too obsessed with artistic integrity anyways, so
why not make a buck off them?...
Samantha R.
Pete Thomas wrote:
> True, the Prodigy aren't as big-selling as those. (Phew!) But it sure
> as hell ain't a commercial death-wish. It would be profitable for them
> to stock FOTL, so what's their problem?
Everyone seems to be missing the point. They pulled it off as a
symbolic gesture for their long-term shoppers.
Besides, I think this whole Kmart thing brings up a very serious issue,
and that is the takeover of North America by large corporations. More
and more we see how encouraging free-enterprise doesn't lead to
democracy, but rather a weakening in small-community enterprises. The
bigger they get, the lower their prices, the more people shop there, the
richer they get, the more they can take over. It makes the poor poorer
and the rich richer. That's why the more Kmarts there are, the more
Kmart shoppers there are, because it means that poor people have to shop
in places that give them the lowest price. They may be aware of the
system, but they are locked in a cycle that continues to put them at the
bottom of the ladder. This whole Kmart-Prodigy issue only serves to
highlight how free-enterprise contributes to the death of the little
man, and continued subservience to big-business. Isn't capitalism
great?
Binky, the performing seal
On 18 Dec 1997 13:41:34 -0600, fn...@atheist.tamu.edu (fnord) wrote:
>In article <34a58a17...@news.demon.co.uk>,
>Binky, the performing seal <Bi...@marineworld.dayton.com> wrote:
>>It's fascist because people aren't being allowed to not buy the album;
>>they are simply not being allowed to buy the album.
>
>I don't possibly see how K-Mart could disallow you from purchasing
>this cd at any other store that had it in stock...
No one said that - this part of the argument is old hat - you lost it
ages ago.
>Which basically means that someone running a business should be able
>to decide what items they sell...
(heavy sigh) It also should mean that the Prodigy have a market for
their album. In places where K-Mart is the ONLY store in town, they
have been denied that market.
>There are a gambit of online cd stores now...so that shouldn't be a
>problem either...
And the people who aren't in posession of a computer or a telephone?
Don't they matter? Isn't their money as good as everybody else's? Your
arguments are circular: you're moving the goalposts with every message
you send, when people have already countered the points you are making
in previous posts.
>I am not defending it...I am saying it sucks...and there are ways to
>go about doing something about it...none of which you are doing...if
>this really is something important to you I suggest you bring up the
>adult section idea to someone who actually works there and see what
>they say...good or bad I am sure it will give you some insight...
Yeah!
Great ideas, but in case you haven't noticed, this is A NEWSGROUP. A
newsgroup is for talking about things, and we are talking about it.
You seem to have a problem with that - weird.
>GOD
>
>--
> YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT
> I AM NOT GOD
Wanna bet? Please change this, mate. It makes you a laughing stock,
and it looks like you're screaming to have the piss taken out of you.
I pity you if you ever come up against a real Oscar-Wilde type wit: he
/ she'll have you crying in 10 seconds - you're heading for a fall,
I'm sorry to say.
Robert Mashlan
ltri...@ix.netcom.com(Matt B Parisi) wrote:
>Just look at the unbelievable stuff you are saying!
Meaning that you refuse to believe it. No effort to refute it.
>We started out
>talking about how K-Mart deemed a Prodigy album too immoral to stock
>and you somehow turned this into a manifesto about racism in America.
>Here are the only facts relevant to the issue at hand:
>Fact: K-Mart's "ban" of the Prodigy album is completely unrelated to
>any race issue. While this band is technically multi-racial, they are
>associated almost entirely with their white lead singer and bandleader,
>and their music (British Techno) is a genre predominated by white
>males.
Lead singer? On Fat of the Land, the only album that Keith Flint
sings on, he shares vocals on Breathe, and sings on three others. I
seriously doubt that qualifies him as a lead singer. He may get his
picture taken more often because he looks like a freak with his
haircut, but that doesn't qualify him as a lead singer.
Secondly, the song in question has vocals by Kool Keith, a black man,
not Keith Flint.
Thirdly, you are mistaken if you think Prodigy now represents techno.
It's more like hip-hop and breakbeat meets punk.
>Fact: K-Mart's decision-makers about whether or not to stock this
>album are not, as you claim, working on an agenda to enforce a
>clearly-defined white/male/conservative artistic ideology on the
>American public. K-Mart typically stocks any domestic album in the top
>100 regardless of genre, with the apparent exception of albums that
>contain songs that are as blatatntly degrading as "Smack my Bitch Up."
>K-mart couldn't give a rat's ass what the color of the leading
>album-sellers are, as long as they are making their millions.
What make you say this? K-Mart wouldn't dream of stocking something
like 2 Live Crew, but you can find Matchbox 20 on the shelves, along
with all the misogynist crap by cowboys that sing about drinking and
beating their women in the country section? Are you purposely failing
to comprehend the evidence?
>However, institutional racism no longer exists in
>this nation, and you appear to be the kind of person ready to find it
>at every turn.
That's where you got your head up your ass.
If you know any black people, ask them about their experiences with
police and compare them to yours.
>I hope that you do not use your imagination to find
>racism as the cause of all of your life's failures. Ultimately, you
>will grow up to be a bitter person who never bettered himself.
>Furthermore, individuals with your warped perceptions of reality will
>likely create "cry wolf" scenarios for people in those instances where
>they really have experienced discrimination.
What the hell are you talking about? I think you are a white liberal
who's very uncomfortable your own racism.
Louis Counter
Dave O'Flynn wrote:
> Bullshit. They haven't sold out, or anything like it. Their music has
> changed from Jilted Generation to FOTL, but then Jilted was
> completely different from Experience. I don't see any Cartoon Techno
> on FOTL (remember "Charlie" anyone?).
>
> As for getting the album to sell, no-where except the States has
> caused this kind of hassle over "Smack my Bitch Up". One or two radio
> staions have got a little antsy about playing the single during the
> day, but that's about it. Can't wait for "Smack my Bitch Up" to be
> released as a single in the States...
I agree that Prodigy haven't sold out. People find change scary and
those that can't hack it often report bands as selling out. I think
FOTL was a dangerous step, if they had re-worked Jilted Generation and
released that people would have rightly said that they were just
working to a formula. What exactly do people think they should have
done, and if anyone has an idea of what they should of done why don't
you do it and shut up complaining.
<rant mode off>
There have been a huge number of complaints about the SMBU poster in
England, the posters have been removed and the Advertising Standards
Agency is investigating, it's not only the yanks who are a bit over
the top.
Louis Counter
coun...@boat.bt.com
www.angelfire.com/hi/BrokenDrum
It's like... tape is an expansion of your memory but you can't always
remember where your memory is! Philosophically that's very interesting,
I think.
Kraftwerk.