Ed Buller (Was Re: Bernard Butler's new single)
Nicole
Wojciech Beltkiewicz wrote:
>
> T. Haq (PRC...@leeds.ac.uk) wrote:
> : Suede`s new album will be released later this year (without the help of Ed
> : Buller I am glad to say)...I hope the other members of the band get more
> : opportunities to write some tunes.
>
> I don't understand. What do you have against Ed Buller. He did an
> excellent job producing the last 3 albums.
>
The primary flaw of all three Suede albums to date has been the
production. Buller has a tendency to completely overdo the production on
the songs, particularly the ballads; Suede have some wonderful songs,
but hearing them played live you can hear that the recorded versions
take away some of their magic and vibrancy. Good riddance to him, I
say...
Nicole
fred
pointed out, buller strangulated "dog man star", though as much as i like
bernie, i don't know if i would've liked him to get his way either.
it's not that ed did an excellent job, it's that he had excellent soe. it
was murky, the instruments weren't allowed room to breathe. "coming up"
wasn't that bad either. "trash" was horrible though. very trebly.
i'm not sorry to see him leave at all.
peace...fred
(np: my bloody valentine, "soon")
Lulu
>Wojciech Beltkiewicz wrote:
>> T. Haq (PRC...@leeds.ac.uk) wrote:
>> : Suede`s new album will be released later this year (without the help of Ed
>> : Buller I am glad to say)...I hope the other members of the band get more
>> : opportunities to write some tunes.
>> I don't understand. What do you have against Ed Buller. He did an
>> excellent job producing the last 3 albums.
>The primary flaw of all three Suede albums to date has been the
>production. Buller has a tendency to completely overdo the production on
>the songs, particularly the ballads; Suede have some wonderful songs,
>but hearing them played live you can hear that the recorded versions
>take away some of their magic and vibrancy. Good riddance to him, I
>say...
Amen, Nicole -- you've written almost word for word what my response to
this post was, before I realised other people had already replied and went
to read those thoughts. He strangled some of their songs. dogmanstar is an
amazing album, but a few of the songs were really suffering because of
production (and I *do* think that some of the ideas that Bernie had
would've worked much better for songs, the best one I've heard -- in
rumour only -- dealing with 2 of Us).
The only thing I can really *add* besides a lengthy 'mee too!' is this: I
think the vocal production on Coming Up is disasterous. Easily one of the
worst produced vocal tracks of the 90s. Brett was taken up waaaaay too
high -- first, I feared his voice had come to that, but listening to them
live, and listening to somewhat better produced later tracks, it's obvious
that his voice is still up to a similar par of his beautiful performance
on dogmanstar. So what gives? Buller turned a lovely voice into a helium
nightmare for me, and I can't forgive that.
Cheers,
Lulu
--
Visit the Spice Rack: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6151/
Peter Westermark
fred wrote:
> indeed. don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. as bernard's
> pointed out, buller strangulated "dog man star", though as much as i like
> bernie, i don't know if i would've liked him to get his way either.
> it's not that ed did an excellent job, it's that he had excellent soe. it
> was murky, the instruments weren't allowed room to breathe. "coming up"
> wasn't that bad either. "trash" was horrible though. very trebly.
> i'm not sorry to see him leave at all.
I disagree. Personally I think that "Dog Man Star" is the best album ever
made (yes, I do know that these are big words) and the production is part of
it. Suede/Buller uses a lot of instruments not used in most pop-music and
they create a beautiful wall of sound that surrounds Brett's lyrics and
singing perfectly. If they had made "Still Life" with just an acoustic
guitar and nothing more it would still have been a good song, but the
orchestrating made it great, IMO. Same thing with all the other songs on the
album.
You do have a point that "Trash" was not prefectly produced. I agree with
you on that one.
Peter
fred
In article <34EA9927...@hotmail.com>, Peter Westermark <ballag...@hotmail.com> writes:
> fred wrote:
>
>> indeed. don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. as bernard's
>> pointed out, buller strangulated "dog man star", though as much as i like
>> bernie, i don't know if i would've liked him to get his way either.
>> it's not that ed did an excellent job, it's that he had excellent soe. it
>> was murky, the instruments weren't allowed room to breathe. "coming up"
>> wasn't that bad either. "trash" was horrible though. very trebly.
>> i'm not sorry to see him leave at all.
>
> I disagree. Personally I think that "Dog Man Star" is the best album ever
> made (yes, I do know that these are big words) and the production is part of
> it.
decade.
> Suede/Buller uses a lot of instruments not used in most pop-music and
i would make that just "suede." i believe that the instrumentation was a
part of bernard's vision, not ed's. ed did put it all together and to me,
it sounds rather claustrophobic. on certain songs, it works ("introducing
the band", even "we are the pigs") but on others, it's just cluttered
("the wild ones.")
> they create a beautiful wall of sound that surrounds Brett's lyrics and
> singing perfectly.
again, i believe that if they used a different producer, the wall of sound
still would've existed as i believe it to be a part of the group's musical
idea, not ed's.
> If they had made "Still Life" with just an acoustic
> guitar and nothing more it would still have been a good song, but the
> orchestrating made it great, IMO. Same thing with all the other songs on the
> album.
>
again, i agree. but that's due to simphonia.
> You do have a point that "Trash" was not prefectly produced. I agree with
> you on that one.
>
i'll also add "she" to that one. very trebly mix, no bottom.
peace...fred
(np: my bloody valentine, "sometimes")
Lulu
>I disagree. Personally I think that "Dog Man Star" is the best album ever
>made (yes, I do know that these are big words) and the production is part of
>it. Suede/Buller uses a lot of instruments not used in most pop-music and
>they create a beautiful wall of sound that surrounds Brett's lyrics and
>singing perfectly.
But the instruments used had NOTHING to do with Buller. At all. Those were
part of Bernie's ideas. Buller overlayered it, added production levels
that Bernie didn't want put in, and made the sound overall murky. It's a
good album *despite* Buller's production.
u03rlg
Peter Westermark (ballag...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: fred wrote:
: > indeed. don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. as bernard's
: > pointed out, buller strangulated "dog man star", though as much as i like
: > bernie, i don't know if i would've liked him to get his way either.
: > it's not that ed did an excellent job, it's that he had excellent soe. it
: > was murky, the instruments weren't allowed room to breathe. "coming up"
: > wasn't that bad either. "trash" was horrible though. very trebly.
: > i'm not sorry to see him leave at all.
: I disagree. Personally I think that "Dog Man Star" is the best album ever
: made (yes, I do know that these are big words) and the production is part of
: it. Suede/Buller uses a lot of instruments not used in most pop-music and
: they create a beautiful wall of sound that surrounds Brett's lyrics and
: singing perfectly. If they had made "Still Life" with just an acoustic
: guitar and nothing more it would still have been a good song, but the
: orchestrating made it great, IMO. Same thing with all the other songs on the
: album.
True, and without the flute, the mid part of the 2 of us would just sound bland,
although I think the Saxophone at the start of Hollywood life was a bit
unecessary. However the brass on We are the pigs was amazing and added a whole
new dimension to the song.
Robert
Joseph Dustin Ruffatto
Are you my long-lost twin who was separated from me at birth? I could not
agree more, dogmanstar is the best album ever, and I make no apologies for
such a direct statement.
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Peter Westermark wrote:
> fred wrote:
>
> > indeed. don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. as bernard's
> > pointed out, buller strangulated "dog man star", though as much as i like
> > bernie, i don't know if i would've liked him to get his way either.
> > it's not that ed did an excellent job, it's that he had excellent soe. it
> > was murky, the instruments weren't allowed room to breathe. "coming up"
> > wasn't that bad either. "trash" was horrible though. very trebly.
> > i'm not sorry to see him leave at all.
>
> I disagree. Personally I think that "Dog Man Star" is the best album ever
> made (yes, I do know that these are big words) and the production is part of
> it. Suede/Buller uses a lot of instruments not used in most pop-music and
> they create a beautiful wall of sound that surrounds Brett's lyrics and
> singing perfectly. If they had made "Still Life" with just an acoustic
> guitar and nothing more it would still have been a good song, but the
> orchestrating made it great, IMO. Same thing with all the other songs on the
> album.
>
> You do have a point that "Trash" was not prefectly produced. I agree with
> you on that one.
>
> Peter
>
>
Wojciech Beltkiewicz
Nicole (star...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: The primary flaw of all three Suede albums to date has been the
: production. Buller has a tendency to completely overdo the production on
: the songs, particularly the ballads; Suede have some wonderful songs,
: but hearing them played live you can hear that the recorded versions
: take away some of their magic and vibrancy. Good riddance to him, I
: say...
Therefore, you're saying that it would be preferrable that the first two
Suede albums would have been better had they sounded more like Bernard
Butler's work after Suede (McAlmont & Butler, and Bernard's solo work)?
Very interesting!
-me
fred
work because brett would've had a say in the matter. but to me, sonically,
bernard's solo work is great. "yes", imo, may be better than anything he
ever recorded with suede and "you do" was another excellent song. but,
again, these songs were done in a solo capacity and not in a group setting
where the band would have some input.
peace...fred
(np: alpha, "sometime later")
Wojciech Beltkiewicz
fred (fsol...@forest.drew.edu) wrote:
: In article <6cho0e$6th$4...@isn.dac.neu.edu>, wbel...@lynx02.dac.neu.edu
Yes, of course. But whether with Suede, McAlmont or by himself, Bernard
has a particular feel by which he can be distinguished from other
guitarists.
I cannot help but to make a comparison here to Johnny Marr. Once no
longer with the Smiths, he still sounds like Marr, and the feel of his
music has not been altered all that much, regardless of whether he is
with Bernard Sumner or the Pet Shop Boys.
The arrangements on "Yes" remind me an awful lot of "Still Life," hence
Bernard is still Bernard, but without having to sound as "glam" as the
last three Suede albums would indicate.
Therefore, can we assume that Bernard's new single "Stay" could pass for
a Suede song, if it had better lyrics?
Just some random thoughts....
-me
Fookin Caged Tigah
anderson has received credit for numerous songs. most of them have been
from the coming up era (by the sea, lazy, another no-one, sound of the
streets, sadie, graffiti woman, etc.)
but a few are from the butler era. where the pigs don't fly, he's dead, the
power are the ones i can think of at the moment. there might be one or two
more.
while i imagine in the studio butler's music was tweaked to fit brett more,
from what i know their songwriting process wasn't very cooperative. i guess
bernard mainly wrote the music and passed it over to brett, much like
morrissey and his musicians.
but a note about dog man star is that butler left during the making of this
album, and that brett and co. are the ones who really did a lot of the
studio work. and butler wasn't always playing guitar...i know for sure that
brett was strumming on "the power"
Lulu
>Therefore, you're saying that it would be preferrable that the first two
>Suede albums would have been better had they sounded more like Bernard
>Butler's work after Suede (McAlmont & Butler, and Bernard's solo work)?
>Very interesting!
All I can really say is that The Sound of McAlmont & Butler is a helluva
lot better album than the throw away Coming Up. It was a different sound
for Bernie -- obviously, his ideas would've been, and were, different for
the first two Suede albums. It's an invalid comparison, because he changed
musical 'styles'.
Not having heard enough of his solo work, I can't comment, but his own
quotes are that he wants it to sound different from Suede as well.
Fred Solinger
wbel...@lynx01.dac.neu.edu (Wojciech Beltkiewicz) writes: > fred (fsol...@forest.drew.edu) wrote:
> : sure, why not...they wouldn't have sounded exactly like bernard's solo
> : work because brett would've had a say in the matter. but to me, sonically,
> : bernard's solo work is great. "yes", imo, may be better than anything he
> : ever recorded with suede and "you do" was another excellent song. but,
> : again, these songs were done in a solo capacity and not in a group setting
> : where the band would have some input.
>
> Yes, of course. But whether with Suede, McAlmont or by himself, Bernard
> has a particular feel by which he can be distinguished from other
> guitarists.
> I cannot help but to make a comparison here to Johnny Marr. Once no
> longer with the Smiths, he still sounds like Marr, and the feel of his
> music has not been altered all that much, regardless of whether he is
> with Bernard Sumner or the Pet Shop Boys.
marr has said, wanted to keep the group from sounding "modern." he sounds
downright funky on the electronic albums.
> The arrangements on "Yes" remind me an awful lot of "Still Life," hence
> Bernard is still Bernard, but without having to sound as "glam" as the
> last three Suede albums would indicate.
well, i don't think they're that alike...at all, actually. but yes, both
bernard's and johnny's personalities were submerged by charismatic frontmen
who wanted a particular sound. for bernard, it was the glam sound. he has
said in interviews that suede wanted another "metal mickey" but that wasn't
him.
> Therefore, can we assume that Bernard's new single "Stay" could pass for
> a Suede song, if it had better lyrics?
> Just some random thoughts....
quite possibly. then again, i think that many of the songs on "the sound of..."
would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
of suede. is he just lyrics? does he come up with the melodies? is he
only as good as his "sidemen" ala morrissey? has there ever been a suede
track that only featured a credit to anderson? i know neil has a song to
his credit (digging a hole?) but it's always anderson, et. al.
i also think that the lyrics to "stay" aren't that bad. they're more
direct but none the worse because of it.
peace...fred
(np: stevie wonder, "where were you when i need you?")
nica...@mailx.idtx.net
Fred Solinger wrote:
> quite possibly. then again, i think that many of the songs on "the sound of..."
> would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
> the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
> of suede. is he just lyrics? does he come up with the melodies? is he
> only as good as his "sidemen" ala morrissey?
I don't think Morrisey was "only as good as his sidemen" in the Smiths,
because his lyrics (and his vocal style, love it or hate it) were a
major part of the Smiths music.
> has there ever been a suede
> track that only featured a credit to anderson?
Yes, it is "Sam" (a B-side to "Beautiful Ones"). If you haven't heard
the tune it is basically Brett singing to acoustic guitar accompinament.
It reminds me of some of Marc Bolan's tunes like "Mystic Lady", "Cosmic
Dancer", etc., even down to the line "You're my main man".
Flashboy
On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:51:18 GMT, Fred Solinger <fsol...@nac.net>
wrote:
>> Therefore, can we assume that Bernard's new single "Stay" could pass for
>> a Suede song, if it had better lyrics?
>> Just some random thoughts....
>quite possibly. then again, i think that many of the songs on "the sound of..."
>would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
>the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
>of suede. is he just lyrics? does he come up with the melodies? is he
>only as good as his "sidemen" ala morrissey? has there ever been a suede
>track that only featured a credit to anderson? i know neil has a song to
>his credit (digging a hole?) but it's always anderson, et. al.
>i also think that the lyrics to "stay" aren't that bad. they're more
>direct but none the worse because of it.
>
>peace...fred
>(np: stevie wonder, "where were you when i need you?")
I think you'll find that Brett Anderson does (and always did) play a
very significant part in creating Suede's music - and not just the
lyrics. I'd say it has been unfairly portrayed as Bernard being the
genius songwriter, with Brett adding some words - which is not the
case.
Yes, there has been Anderson-only Suede tracks: Another No-One, By The
Sea, Lazy, Sam...one of my fave Suede songs is "Asda Town" - also an
Anderson composition.
Now go figure...
I think it would be somewhat of a tragedy if Suede's last couple of
albums had sounded like "The Sound of McAlmont & Butler". Bernard's
'organic' rock sound suits his solos stuff - but Suede are better off
with the 'futuristic', 'metallic' sound they perfected on "Coming Up".
I don't think Bernard would've been comfortable doing "Poor Little
Rich Girl" the way they've done it...but that's just my guess.
Flashboy.
(Remove 'nospam' to reply.)
Flashboy
>anderson has received credit for numerous songs. most of them have been
>from the coming up era (by the sea, lazy, another no-one, sound of the
>streets, sadie, graffiti woman, etc.)
>but a few are from the butler era. where the pigs don't fly, he's dead, the
>power are the ones i can think of at the moment. there might be one or two
>more.
There are no songs from the Butler era credited only to Anderson. All
songs from those days were Anderson/Butler.
>while i imagine in the studio butler's music was tweaked to fit brett more,
>from what i know their songwriting process wasn't very cooperative. i guess
>bernard mainly wrote the music and passed it over to brett, much like
>morrissey and his musicians.
Yes, but Brett would often have a large say in the structure of the
songs - which bit goes where, how many choruses etc. Also, in the
documentary (from years back, British TV) called "Opening Shot" you
can see (and hear!) Suede in their rehearsal room working on "Stay
Together" - and it's quite evident that the melody line isn't quite
there yet.....my guess is that Brett has had a lot of input regarding
the vocal melody lines on those old Anderson/Butler songs - he has
said as much himself in interviews.
>but a note about dog man star is that butler left during the making of this
>album, and that brett and co. are the ones who really did a lot of the
>studio work. and butler wasn't always playing guitar...i know for sure that
>brett was strumming on "the power"
That was because Bernard had left by then.
u03rlg
: > Therefore, can we assume that Bernard's new single "Stay" could pass for
: > a Suede song, if it had better lyrics?
: > Just some random thoughts....
I thought the lyrics to stay, and all of its B-sides were pretty good, they are
not the same style as Brett's but they have a much more personal feel to them.
: quite possibly. then again, i think that many of the songs on "the sound of..."
: would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
: the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
: of suede. is he just lyrics? does he come up with the melodies? is he
: only as good as his "sidemen" ala morrissey? has there ever been a suede
: track that only featured a credit to anderson? i know neil has a song to
I think there are 2 Suede songs featuring only Brett's songwriting, one of these
is By the sea from coming up, the other track is off coming up, but I cant
remember what it is.
Robert
Mohsin Wadee
Nicole wrote in message <34EA2A...@earthlink.net>...
>Wojciech Beltkiewicz wrote:
>>
>> T. Haq (PRC...@leeds.ac.uk) wrote:
>> : Suede`s new album will be released later this year (without the help of
Ed
>> : Buller I am glad to say)...I hope the other members of the band get
more
>> : opportunities to write some tunes.
>>
>> I don't understand. What do you have against Ed Buller. He did an
>> excellent job producing the last 3 albums.
>>
>
>The primary flaw of all three Suede albums to date has been the
>production. Buller has a tendency to completely overdo the production on
>the songs, particularly the ballads; Suede have some wonderful songs,
>but hearing them played live you can hear that the recorded versions
>take away some of their magic and vibrancy. Good riddance to him, I
>say...
>
>Nicole
You silly cocksucker, good riddance to you birdbrain. In fact I haven't read
a single intelligent piece in this worthless newsgroup. Fact is the first 2
albums were fucking classics, maybe Ed could have done better, but hey, even
Eno has his bad days. Coming Up was great too. But its trebly sound was
probably due more to the band's new direction than the producer. The only
bad thing about Coming Up was Butler's absence. He gave lots more to the
band than just his guitar: just listen to the 1st CD of Sci-Fi Lullabies
Part 1 10/10, Part 2, 5/10, just as well it was sold at a single CD price).
One thing's for fucking sure, if anything needs improving it's Rick's
guitarwork. Him to Bernard is like Michael Jackson to Jesus. But, glory be,
he can write a decent tune with Brett, hence calling Coming Up a great
album.
So there you twats.
Mohsin
fred
In article <34ED1E...@mailX.idtX.net>, nica...@mailX.idtX.net writes:
> Fred Solinger wrote:
>
>> quite possibly. then again, i think that many of the songs on "the sound of..."
>> would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
>> the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
>> of suede. is he just lyrics? does he come up with the melodies? is he
>> only as good as his "sidemen" ala morrissey?
>
> because his lyrics (and his vocal style, love it or hate it) were a
> major part of the Smiths music.
>
career.
is it a bit disturbing that the best conversation i've had in this ng in
some time involves discussing the production (de)merits of ed buller?
peace...fred
(np: pulp, "disco 2000")
Brad Robinson
In article <6cjv4g$gqe$1...@info.abdn.ac.uk>, u03...@sysa.abdn.ac.uk (u03rlg)
says:
>
>: > Therefore, can we assume that Bernard's new single "Stay" could pass
for
>: > a Suede song, if it had better lyrics?
>: > Just some random thoughts....
>
>I thought the lyrics to stay, and all of its B-sides were pretty good,
they are
>not the same style as Brett's but they have a much more personal feel to
them.
>
>: would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
>: the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
>: of suede. is he just lyrics? does he come up with the melodies? is he
suede
>: track that only featured a credit to anderson? i know neil has a song
to
>
>I think there are 2 Suede songs featuring only Brett's songwriting, one
of these
>is By the sea from coming up, the other track is off coming up, but I
cant
>remember what it is.
>
>Robert
mr anderson is in my humble opinion extremely talented, evidenced not
least by "the power" on Dog Man Star solely written by him long before he
met any of the other lads from suede...and he means it, all of it from the
early days onward. may sincerity linger on.
Flashboy
On 20 Feb 1998 16:03:47 GMT, Brad Robinson <b.d.ro...@ncl.ac.uk>
wrote:
I am afraid you are mistaken. "The Power" was an Anderson/Butler
composition - like all songs from the Butler-era.
Wojciech Beltkiewicz
Lulu (bitchyspice@*.geocities.com) wrote:
: In article <6cho0e$6th$4...@isn.dac.neu.edu>, wbel...@lynx02.dac.neu.edu
: (Wojciech Beltkiewicz) wrote:
: >Therefore, you're saying that it would be preferrable that the first two
: >Suede albums would have been better had they sounded more like Bernard
: >Butler's work after Suede (McAlmont & Butler, and Bernard's solo work)?
: >Very interesting!
: All I can really say is that The Sound of McAlmont & Butler is a helluva
: lot better album than the throw away Coming Up. It was a different sound
: for Bernie -- obviously, his ideas would've been, and were, different for
: the first two Suede albums. It's an invalid comparison, because he changed
: musical 'styles'.
: Not having heard enough of his solo work, I can't comment, but his own
: quotes are that he wants it to sound different from Suede as well.
I'm sorry, but I found McAlmont & Butler a huge disappointment, with the
exception of "Yes."
-me
James Masente
Flashboy wrote:
>
>
> I am afraid you are mistaken. "The Power" was an Anderson/Butler
> composition - like all songs from the Butler-era.
>
> Flashboy.
> (Remove 'nospam' to reply.)
In an interview after Dog Man Star was released, Brett Anderson stated that
he wrote 'The Power' after Bernard left the band. Of course it's credited to
Anderson/Butler on the CD, so who knows. Maybe Brett's a pathological liar, or
something.
James
boeg
Do you know that the word "fred" means "peace" in Denmark?
(Sorry, I haven't got anything to say about Buller)
Ditte
nica...@mailx.idtx.net
If he said that he's also a really bad liar. I wonder how Bernard could
have played guitar on "The Power" if he left the band before it was
written...
Fookin Caged Tigah
flashboy:
okay, you can read liner notes, all songs are credited
anderson/butler...
you'll also notice all beatles songs are credited mccartney/lennon. but
that doesn't happen to be true.
i didn't just pick the songs out of a hat...the info comes from brett. he
said in interviews that "he's dead", "where the pigs don't fly" and "the
power" were all written by him.
as for brett playing the guitar on the power because butler left, i imagine
i knew that since i specifically stated that exact fact at the beginning of
the paragraph you responded to.
Fookin Caged Tigah
lulu: uh, you looked at the coming up liner notes and didn't see any songs
credited only to anderson???
why don't you have a second look, and keep an eye out for two songs called
"by the sea" and lazy"
actually, i think the liner just says "tracks 3 and 4 by anderson"
fred
"peaceful chieftain," but this "peace" thing is very new to me. so i guess
i can do this then.
fred...fred
...or maybe not. :D
peace...fred
(np: brian eno, "deep blue day")
fred
In article <bitchyspice-20...@ip-82-53.phx.dialup.dancris.com>, bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes:
> In article <6ck1sr$ldp$1...@hermes.is.co.za>, "Mohsin Wadee"
> <mwa...@ppc.co.za> wrote:
>
>>You silly cocksucker, good riddance to you birdbrain. In fact I haven't read
>>a single intelligent piece in this worthless newsgroup.
>
>
i'm almost tempted to agree with him though...about the lack of
intelligent posts in the ng. i'll chalk it up to a lull in the music
world. hopefully, things will come around again when there's something of
note to discuss. i mean, how else would we get around to discussing the
production techniques of ed buller? :D
>>Fact is the first 2
>>albums were fucking classics, maybe Ed could have done better, but hey, even
>>Eno has his bad days.
>
and sometimes a bad decade. :D
> Indeed, but Eno didn't fuck up every song. The point about the songs is
> that the albums were classics DESPITE the idiotic overproduction. A lot of
> those songs suffered from the production, if you listen to them live...
>
exactly, no one's disputing the quality of the albums. another thing that
annoys me, could there possibly be any more echo?
>>Coming Up was great too. But its trebly sound was
>>probably due more to the band's new direction than the producer.
>
> All I can say is that the sound is a lot better on the second disc of
> Sci-Fi, so if that was the band's 'new direction', they've obviously
> changed their minds on it, thank god. But I'm thinking that, since they've
> decided not to go with Buller anymore, maybe it was a bit more the
> producer's fault, and they realised after the fact...
>
yes! doesn't disc 2 sound so clean? beautiful!
damn it, i accidently erased the rest of the post.
um, i missed the hanson reference...huh? :D
peace..fred
(np: primal scream, "trainspotting")
Lulu
In article <W47H.113$qK1.1...@nntp1.nac.net>, Fred Solinger
<fsol...@nac.net> wrote:
>quite possibly. then again, i think that many of the songs on "the sound of..."
>would never find their way on to a suede album. this all comes down to
>the question of how much of a role did brett anderson have on the music
>of suede.
Obviously, the entire band had an influence. Bernie's influence was huge,
but obviously tempered. If he wanted to go in a musical direction for a
song that Brett didn't like, I'm sure Brett told him to piss off with it.
Brett obviously has a certain sound that he wants Suede to keep to, better
or worse, I think...
I did have a point there when I started, but I forgot what it was supposed
to be.
>has there ever been a suede track that only featured a credit to anderson?
Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, but I don't think that's
ever happened.
Lulu
In article <6cj8a8$4b1$1...@gte1.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
<moz...@gte.net> wrote:
>anderson has received credit for numerous songs.
Yeah, but are they solo credit or co-credit? I think that was really the
point he was getting at with that...Brett apparently hasn't written by
himself, so he was questioning what exactly Brett's influence was. I have
a pile of CDs next to me, and two of Suede's were here, and I looked at
the liner for Coming Up, and the songs are credited Anderson/Oakes, with
the exception of a few tracks which were co-written with someone else. The
entirety of Suede's first album is credited Anderson/Butler...
>while i imagine in the studio butler's music was tweaked to fit brett more,
>from what i know their songwriting process wasn't very cooperative. i guess
>bernard mainly wrote the music and passed it over to brett, much like
>morrissey and his musicians.
Yeah, that's how I think it worked, sort of, and I think it still works
that way, but I also believe that if Bernie wrote a song not in Brett's
'style', it'd be tossed out. *shrugs* And I'd be willing to bet that if
Brett wrote some lyrics Bernie thought were awful, things would get change
there...my idea is that they probably trampled all over each other,
despite seeming uncooperative processes.
Lulu
>You silly cocksucker, good riddance to you birdbrain. In fact I haven't read
>a single intelligent piece in this worthless newsgroup.
What a nice young chappy.
>Fact is the first 2
>albums were fucking classics, maybe Ed could have done better, but hey, even
>Eno has his bad days.
Indeed, but Eno didn't fuck up every song. The point about the songs is
that the albums were classics DESPITE the idiotic overproduction. A lot of
those songs suffered from the production, if you listen to them live...
>Coming Up was great too. But its trebly sound was
>probably due more to the band's new direction than the producer.
All I can say is that the sound is a lot better on the second disc of
Sci-Fi, so if that was the band's 'new direction', they've obviously
changed their minds on it, thank god. But I'm thinking that, since they've
decided not to go with Buller anymore, maybe it was a bit more the
producer's fault, and they realised after the fact...
>Him to Bernard is like Michael Jackson to Jesus.
Jarvis Cocker!
>So there you twats.
Bite me. Are you related to Hanson?
Lulu
In article <6ckjqr$q6f$1...@isn.dac.neu.edu>, wbel...@lynx01.dac.neu.edu
(Wojciech Beltkiewicz) wrote:
>I'm sorry, but I found McAlmont & Butler a huge disappointment, with the
>exception of "Yes."
I've gotten in this with Suede fans before, so I'm going to say the same
thing I did back when McAlmont & Butler came out: Yes is the song that,
IMO, sounds most like a Suede song. It makes sense that, if you were
expecting just another Suede album but with a different singer, you would
be disappointed by all tracks by Yes.
I don't think Yes is even close to being the best track on the album,
myself. You can't want it to sound like Suede. It's quite a different
musical style for the majority of it. I actually think that, judging by
things Bernie's said in interviews, The Sound Of... more accurately
reflects Bernie's tastes as well. *shrug*
A huge disappointment, to me, was Coming Up. Too bad they didn't release
Disc 2 of Sci-Fi as Coming Up. Now that would've been worth the money.
Fred Solinger
bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes: > In article <6ckjqr$q6f$1...@isn.dac.neu.edu>, wbel...@lynx01.dac.neu.edu
> (Wojciech Beltkiewicz) wrote:
>
> >I'm sorry, but I found McAlmont & Butler a huge disappointment, with the
> >exception of "Yes."
>
> I've gotten in this with Suede fans before, so I'm going to say the same
> thing I did back when McAlmont & Butler came out: Yes is the song that,
> IMO, sounds most like a Suede song.
house band, lyrics by holland-dozier-holland and la ross doing vocals. i
don't think i'd ever say that about any suede song.
> It makes sense that, if you were
> expecting just another Suede album but with a different singer, you would
> be disappointed by all tracks by Yes.
>
i think if the only track one liked was "yes", it was because they have
good taste in pop music, not necessarily that they were looking for suede
songs and "yes" happened to fit the mold.
> I don't think Yes is even close to being the best track on the album,
> myself.
i do. actually, at last count, it was my number 2 single of the decade.
certain songs just give you this ineffable rush. to me, "yes" is one such
song...add to that the excellent "fuck-off" lyrics. pure pop delight.
> You can't want it to sound like Suede. It's quite a different
> musical style for the majority of it.
i'm glad it didn't sound like suede. it was the rock-soul synthesis that
i was looking for.
> I actually think that, judging by
> things Bernie's said in interviews, The Sound Of... more accurately
> reflects Bernie's tastes as well. *shrug*
>
considering the few tracks i've heard from bernie's album, i'll agree.
they sound like descendants of the tunes from "the sound of..."
> A huge disappointment, to me, was Coming Up. Too bad they didn't release
> Disc 2 of Sci-Fi as Coming Up. Now that would've been worth the money.
>
well, i know how much you dislike coming up, but i still find it to be a
highly enjoyable album. there were duds on it for sure and if brett could've
gotten over this "strong b-sides, screw the album," coming up could've
been quite excellent instead of merely good.
then again, i don't feel that disc 2 of sci-fi was really that strong.
perhaps it's because i let the first disc inform my opinion of it. disc 1,
to me, is classic. there's not one track i skip over...disc 2, i think
it's harder to find the gems. what are your favorite tracks on the second
disc, lulu?
peace...fred
(np: ian brown, "can't see me")
> Cheers,
> Lulu
u03rlg
: mr anderson is in my humble opinion extremely talented, evidenced not
: met any of the other lads from suede...and he means it, all of it from the
: early days onward. may sincerity linger on.
Hang on, I seem to remember reading in an interview with Bernard Butler,
that Brett took Bernards Demo for this and played it, as Bernard had
allready been thrown out of the band by the time they came to record it.
Which story is true?
Robert
Lulu
In article <6cl7l0$jis$1...@gte1.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
<moz...@gte.net> wrote:
*shakes head* Mine doesn't, so I stand by what I said. Of course, it's a
promo copy, and so I'll stand by what *you're* saying as well. It's rather
obviously a typo if the official version states otherwise.
I blame it on their management, no wonder the press gives the impression
sometimes that Brett doesn't write music :)
Lulu
>If he said that he's also a really bad liar. I wonder how Bernard could
>have played guitar on "The Power" if he left the band before it was
>written...
Erm, I'm under the impression that he didn't...
Lulu
In article <lP7QIKnkx+Ry@forest>, fsol...@forest.drew.edu (fred) wrote:
>In article
<bitchyspice-20...@ip-82-53.phx.dialup.dancris.com>,
bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes:
>> In article <6ck1sr$ldp$1...@hermes.is.co.za>, "Mohsin Wadee"
>> <mwa...@ppc.co.za> wrote:
>>>You silly cocksucker, good riddance to you birdbrain. In fact I haven't read
>>>a single intelligent piece in this worthless newsgroup.
>> What a nice young chappy.
>i'm almost tempted to agree with him though...
*laughs* Oh, it's not necessarily what he said in theory, but I prefer not
to read people telling other people they are stupid whilst using the word
'cocksucker'. I mean, unless we're being very arch and ironic, it doesn't
help add to the intelligence quota...
>exactly, no one's disputing the quality of the albums. another thing that
>annoys me, could there possibly be any more echo?
Probably, but there would have to be an echo chamber involved, probably.
>yes! doesn't disc 2 sound so clean? beautiful!
Well, I think so. Especially when listened to right after Coming Up, which
sounds like a high pitched, tinny mess.
>um, i missed the hanson reference...huh? :D
I just figure that the littlest Hanson will snap one day, and start
calling the other two 'cocksucking birdbrains', so I was curious, like...
:)
Lulu
In article <eYpH.151$qK1.2...@nntp1.nac.net>, Fred Solinger
<fsol...@nac.net> wrote:
>bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes: > In article >> I've gotten in
this with Suede fans before, so I'm going to say the same
>> thing I did back when McAlmont & Butler came out: Yes is the song that,
>> IMO, sounds most like a Suede song.
>really, you think?
Oh, I think so. Obviously, if it had gone through Suede, and Suede's
production, it would've sounded a bit different, but I can easily see how
it would cross over in a heartbeat...
>i'm glad it didn't sound like suede. it was the rock-soul synthesis that
>i was looking for.
Agreed...
>well, i know how much you dislike coming up, but i still find it to be a
>highly enjoyable album. there were duds on it for sure and if brett could've
>gotten over this "strong b-sides, screw the album," coming up could've
>been quite excellent instead of merely good.
There are some listenable tracks, but I can't be bothered with most of it.
It's definitely the production that irritates me on it, although I do
think the songs are occasionally VERY weak (Saturday Night? *Hello*?).
Most of the songs would've been passable with different production and a
few other minor changes...
>then again, i don't feel that disc 2 of sci-fi was really that strong.
>perhaps it's because i let the first disc inform my opinion of it. disc 1,
>to me, is classic.
*laughs* Agreed, and I wasn't 100% sold on the second disc either first
listen, but then I went and listened to it without listening to disc one
at all...funnily enough, I found it to be excellent. Or at least better
than COming Up.
>what are your favorite tracks on the second disc, lulu?
Hard question, mainly cos I haven't listened in awhile! I'll give it a go
though, and state that my favourite track is wsd (I can't explain it, so
no one who hates the song ask :). For others though, I would have to
relisten -- I wasn't trying to imply that I was in love with disc two, but
rather that it was a lot better IMO than Coming Up. I really only listen
to disc one often though :)
Fred Solinger
bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes: > In article <lP7QIKnkx+Ry@forest>, fsol...@forest.drew.edu (fred) wrote:
>
> >In article
> <bitchyspice-20...@ip-82-53.phx.dialup.dancris.com>,
> >> In article <6ck1sr$ldp$1...@hermes.is.co.za>, "Mohsin Wadee"
> >> <mwa...@ppc.co.za> wrote:
> >>>You silly cocksucker, good riddance to you birdbrain. In fact I haven't read
> >>>a single intelligent piece in this worthless newsgroup.
> >> What a nice young chappy.
> >i'm almost tempted to agree with him though...
>
> *laughs* Oh, it's not necessarily what he said in theory, but I prefer not
> to read people telling other people they are stupid whilst using the word
> 'cocksucker'. I mean, unless we're being very arch and ironic, it doesn't
> help add to the intelligence quota...
>
> >yes! doesn't disc 2 sound so clean? beautiful!
>
> Well, I think so. Especially when listened to right after Coming Up, which
> sounds like a high pitched, tinny mess.
>
yes, especially "trash" where he sounds ziggy's cousin, castrati stardust.
it's interesting to try to hear him hit those notes live. :D
> >um, i missed the hanson reference...huh? :D
>
> I just figure that the littlest Hanson will snap one day, and start
> calling the other two 'cocksucking birdbrains', so I was curious, like...
> :)
or even "silly twats" :D but yes, little hanson is already a handful,
ain't he? :D
peace...fred
(np: nothing, honestly, there's just absolute silence...)
Fred Solinger
bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes: > In article <eYpH.151$qK1.2...@nntp1.nac.net>, Fred Solinger
> <fsol...@nac.net> wrote:
>
> >bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes: > In article >> I've gotten in
> this with Suede fans before, so I'm going to say the same
> >> thing I did back when McAlmont & Butler came out: Yes is the song that,
> >> IMO, sounds most like a Suede song.
> >really, you think?
>
> Oh, I think so. Obviously, if it had gone through Suede, and Suede's
> production, it would've sounded a bit different, but I can easily see how
> it would cross over in a heartbeat...
>
have been suede songs.
> >well, i know how much you dislike coming up, but i still find it to be a
> >highly enjoyable album. there were duds on it for sure and if brett could've
> >gotten over this "strong b-sides, screw the album," coming up could've
> >been quite excellent instead of merely good.
>
> There are some listenable tracks, but I can't be bothered with most of it.
> It's definitely the production that irritates me on it, although I do
> think the songs are occasionally VERY weak (Saturday Night? *Hello*?).
well, that's what happens when you cross-breed elton's "song for guy"
with clapton's "wonderful tonight." :D also, i'm not too crazy about
"starcrazy" or "lazy." "she", "by the sea", "trash" (despite it's problems),
"chemistry between us" and even "the beautiful ones" are amongst my
favorite suede songs too. as far as b-sides and non-album tracks,
"together" (a production mess), "europe is our playground", "another no-one",
"every monday morning comes" and "shipbuilding" are also top-notch suede
mark ii tracks.
> >then again, i don't feel that disc 2 of sci-fi was really that strong.
> >perhaps it's because i let the first disc inform my opinion of it. disc 1,
> >to me, is classic.
>
> *laughs* Agreed, and I wasn't 100% sold on the second disc either first
> listen, but then I went and listened to it without listening to disc one
> at all...funnily enough, I found it to be excellent. Or at least better
> than COming Up.
>
well, then again, you might be of the opinion that bernie brushing his teeth
at the end of "the sound of..." would make for a more intriguing album
than "coming up." :D seriously though, i read one review that said, "there
are a handful of good tracks on disc one, but disc two is where you'll find
the real gold." wtf? :D
> >what are your favorite tracks on the second disc, lulu?
>
> Hard question, mainly cos I haven't listened in awhile! I'll give it a go
> though, and state that my favourite track is wsd (I can't explain it, so
> no one who hates the song ask :). For others though, I would have to
> relisten -- I wasn't trying to imply that I was in love with disc two, but
> rather that it was a lot better IMO than Coming Up. I really only listen
> to disc one often though :)
disc one in itself may have been the best album i bought last year. "wsd"
though, huh? :D well, i can't say either way since i haven't heard it in
ages and only remember that the title is an acronym for "we're so disco."
has "poor little rich girl" been played over there? the realaudio that i
heard of it sounded like they're going in the direction of the "electronic"
type of sound that was found on "graffiti women" and other disc 2 tracks.
lots of bleeps and what not. guess they're going to make neil earn his
keep, huh? :D
peace...fred
(np: pulp, "mile end")
Filmstar
Lulu wrote in message ...
>In article <W47H.113$qK1.1...@nntp1.nac.net>, Fred Solinger
><fsol...@nac.net> wrote:
>>has there ever been a suede track that only featured a credit to anderson?
>
>Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, but I don't think that's
>ever happened.
I don't know where you got that idea...
Wild Ones B-side CD 2 - Asda Town (Anderson)
Trash B-side CD 2 (and Sci-Fi) - Another No-One (Anderson)
Coming Up - Lazy (Anderson)
Coming Up - By The Sea (Anderson)
Beautiful Ones CD 1 (& Sci-Fi) - Sound Of The Streets (Anderson)
Beautiful Ones CD 2 - Sam (Anderson)
Sat Night CD 1 (& Sci-Fi) - WSD (Anderson)
Filmstar CD 1 (& Sci-Fi) - Graffiti People (Anderson)
--
Filmstar : film...@eleylong.demon.co.uk
Suedeville : http://www.eleylong.demon.co.uk/
Lulu
In article <wWDH.173$qK1.2...@nntp1.nac.net>, Fred Solinger
<fsol...@nac.net> wrote:
>bitchyspice@*.geocities.com (Lulu) writes:
>> In article <lP7QIKnkx+Ry@forest>, fsol...@forest.drew.edu (fred) wrote:
>> >yes! doesn't disc 2 sound so clean? beautiful!
>> Well, I think so. Especially when listened to right after Coming Up, which
>> sounds like a high pitched, tinny mess.
>yes, especially "trash" where he sounds ziggy's cousin, castrati stardust.
>it's interesting to try to hear him hit those notes live. :D
I know. I like Trash, but the production on it is really awful. What *was*
that about?
>or even "silly twats" :D but yes, little hanson is already a handful,
>ain't he? :D
He's certainly worse than yer Britpop lot, I can be assured of that.
Typical 11-year-old psycho. He probably thinks all his female fans have
cooties, as well.
Lulu
In article <i5EH.176$qK1.2...@nntp1.nac.net>, Fred Solinger
<fsol...@nac.net> wrote:
[snipping lots, basically re: The Sound Of...]
>i'd say any of the slower-tempo tunes bar "you'll lose a good thing" could
>have been suede songs.
Whereas I disagree. It's a tough distinction for me, but I don't think
they could've worked with Suede. I think Yes *would've* though.
>well, that's what happens when you cross-breed elton's "song for guy"
>with clapton's "wonderful tonight." :D
Ugh, tell me about it. It makes me want to hurl the CD across the room.
I like She the best on the album, I think. Beautiful Ones is alright, but
a bit toss off sounding...I'd like Trash, except for the hideous
production. By The Sea is good as well. That's about it, for me...
>well, then again, you might be of the opinion that bernie brushing his teeth
>at the end of "the sound of..." would make for a more intriguing album
>than "coming up." :D
Well, a more intriguing album, definitely. Coming Up really didn't have
any tricks up its sleeve, it was pretty well straightforward pop IMO, so
yeah, Bernie brushing his teeth was more intriguing... :)
>seriously though, i read one review that said, "there
>are a handful of good tracks on disc one, but disc two is where you'll find
>the real gold." wtf? :D
I don't buy that at all. Disc One has My Insatiable One on it. That's
enough to make it worth the buy price, if you don't already have the
song...
>disc one in itself may have been the best album i bought last year.
Well, I'd not go that far, probably... :)
>has "poor little rich girl" been played over there? the realaudio that i
>heard of it sounded like they're going in the direction of the "electronic"
>type of sound that was found on "graffiti women" and other disc 2 tracks.
>lots of bleeps and what not. guess they're going to make neil earn his
>keep, huh? :D
Well, he's got to do summit besides sit around and stare vacantly and be
'glamourous'. Haven't heard that one, no, I don't think. Might look it up
though, sounds interesting enough...
craig peacock
>> In an interview after Dog Man Star was released, Brett Anderson
stated that
>> he wrote 'The Power' after Bernard left the band. Of course it's
credited to
>> Anderson/Butler on the CD, so who knows. Maybe Brett's a
pathological liar, or
>> something.
>
> James
>
>have played guitar on "The Power" if he left the band before it was
>written...
Fact: Bernard left a complete demo of a composition that became 'The
Power' at the studio when he left.
The guitar parts on Bernard's demo were simply replicated by Brett for
the version you hear on DMS. The lyrics were of course written by Brett.
I think that makes it an Anderson/Butler composition...
Craig
----------------------------------------------------------------
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News and much more about Bernard Butler
New EP : 'Not Alone' : March 16
Album : 'People Move On' : Coming soon!
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Flashboy
On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:16:24 +0900, craig peacock <cra...@twics.com>
wrote:
>Fact: Bernard left a complete demo of a composition that became 'The
>Power' at the studio when he left.
>
>The guitar parts on Bernard's demo were simply replicated by Brett for
>the version you hear on DMS. The lyrics were of course written by Brett.
>I think that makes it an Anderson/Butler composition...
Thanks for backing me up on this Craig! All these people keep telling
me that Brett wrote "The Power" and "The 2 of Us" on his own.
Especially in the case of the latter it just sounds ludicrous.
There were strong rumours that the electric guitar on "The Power" was
played by a session musician - copying Bernard's demo. What do you
think of that? Any thruth in it?
Have a nice day.
Flashboy.
PS: Craig's BB Website is worth checking out if you haven't done so
already. There's an exclusive interview on there at the moment.
(See Craig's post for URL.)
(Remove 'nospam' to reply.)
boeg
> If he said that he's also a really bad liar. I wonder how Bernard could
> have played guitar on "The Power" if he left the band before it was
> written...
Bernard doesn't play guitar on "The Power"! I've read a thousand times that
Brett does the guitar playing on that one - and he does that very well
indeed!
Ditte
Nicole
Flashboy wrote:
>
> On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:16:24 +0900, craig peacock <cra...@twics.com>
> wrote:
> >Fact: Bernard left a complete demo of a composition that became 'The
> >Power' at the studio when he left.
> >
> >The guitar parts on Bernard's demo were simply replicated by Brett for
> >the version you hear on DMS. The lyrics were of course written by Brett.
> >I think that makes it an Anderson/Butler composition...
>
> Thanks for backing me up on this Craig! All these people keep telling
> me that Brett wrote "The Power" and "The 2 of Us" on his own.
> Especially in the case of the latter it just sounds ludicrous.
>
> There were strong rumours that the electric guitar on "The Power" was
> played by a session musician - copying Bernard's demo. What do you
> think of that? Any thruth in it?
I've heard the same rumor several times, and there probably is some
truth to it. I don't mean to sound cynical, but I have a hard time
believing Brett is a passable enough guitarist to do the track himself.
Nicole
--
Torra Fy Ngwallt Yn Hir
Fookin Caged Tigah
well, whatever you have a hard time believing doesn't matter much.
brett is instrumentally inclined. that's pretty obvious. on "coming up"
and i imagine the b-sides as well, the whole band switched around on the
instruments, so you aren't ALWAYS hearing richey on guitar, neil on
keyboards, simon on drums, mat on bass, and quite often it will be brett
playing whatever instrument. looking at his track record for writing songs,
he's obviously more than a hack. if he could write "by the sea" he could at
least manage to play "the power" i'm sure.
and secondly, what is this source people are quoting about the bernard
butler demo of "the power"? it's straight from brett's fucking mouth that
he wrote it, and you are all going "oh, well, brett's probably lying." i
might be insane, but i'm going to trust the actual band before other
sources. bernard butler may very well have left a demo, but how do you know
it wasn't him playing brett's composition? that is very much a possibility.
i'm so glad all of you know more about suede than suede does!
Flashboy
>well, whatever you have a hard time believing doesn't matter much.
>brett is instrumentally inclined. that's pretty obvious. on "coming up"
>and i imagine the b-sides as well, the whole band switched around on the
>instruments, so you aren't ALWAYS hearing richey on guitar, neil on
>keyboards, simon on drums, mat on bass, and quite often it will be brett
>playing whatever instrument. looking at his track record for writing songs,
>he's obviously more than a hack. if he could write "by the sea" he could at
>least manage to play "the power" i'm sure.
Where have you heard this? I've seen Brett play drums - he could not
have played drums on any of Suede's recordings!
>and secondly, what is this source people are quoting about the bernard
>butler demo of "the power"? it's straight from brett's fucking mouth that
>he wrote it, and you are all going "oh, well, brett's probably lying." i
>might be insane, but i'm going to trust the actual band before other
>sources. bernard butler may very well have left a demo, but how do you know
>it wasn't him playing brett's composition? that is very much a possibility.
>
>i'm so glad all of you know more about suede than suede does!
Actually, the source quoted is the band themselves. They said "The
Power" was written by Bernard (I'm referring to the music here of
course) and was demoed before he left the band.
Lulu
In article <34f09acf...@news1.telia.com>, flas...@NOSPAMonline.no wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:47:29 -0800, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
><moz...@gte.net> wrote:
>>well, whatever you have a hard time believing doesn't matter much.
>>brett is instrumentally inclined. that's pretty obvious. on "coming up"
>>and i imagine the b-sides as well, the whole band switched around on the
>>instruments, so you aren't ALWAYS hearing richey on guitar, neil on
>>keyboards, simon on drums, mat on bass, and quite often it will be brett
>>playing whatever instrument. looking at his track record for writing songs,
>>he's obviously more than a hack. if he could write "by the sea" he could at
>>least manage to play "the power" i'm sure.
>Where have you heard this? I've seen Brett play drums - he could not
>have played drums on any of Suede's recordings!
I'm seconding this one, Flashboy...I think certain people have a little
*too* much faith in Brett's ability.
>>and secondly, what is this source people are quoting about the bernard
>>butler demo of "the power"? it's straight from brett's fucking mouth that
>>he wrote it, and you are all going "oh, well, brett's probably lying." i
>>might be insane, but i'm going to trust the actual band before other
>>sources. bernard butler may very well have left a demo, but how do you know
>>it wasn't him playing brett's composition? that is very much a possibility.
>Actually, the source quoted is the band themselves. They said "The
>Power" was written by Bernard (I'm referring to the music here of
>course) and was demoed before he left the band.
There seems to be two stories that have gone around. The one myself and
apparently 90% of this thread have read in the press, that the band says
that Bernard left demos that they went off of after he left, and the one
that ol' Fookin Caged Tigah has read, that seems to be Brett stating that
he wrote The Power completely by himself. I'll go by the first one,
myself. I've actually *seen* that one written down in several places. I've
never seen this Brett-solo story outside of this newsgroop...
Fookin Caged Tigah
gee, brett can't play drums. guess that just refutes everything. well, i
didn't say WHAT he played, he just said that during the coming up sessions
they each played different instruments.
what i would like to know is why people are so insanely skeptical of
brett's ability to play a musical instrument competently??? every damn
singer is not morrissey, you know.
brett himself did grant that he wasn't a *real* guitar player, but that
he could play. you have NO reason to believe otherwise. you're just
sitting around going "oh, i don't know! i just don't think he could do it!"
as for "the power" i guess we're at a standstill. you can doubt that i
actually read the information, but i assure you you'd be standing on weak
ground there. but i imagine your sources exist also. so unless some
interviewer manages to bring up the subject again and force brett into a
corner, we won't know. i would only like to add that simon was also present
at the interview that i read my info in.
Fookin Caged Tigah
jesus, i'm starting to feel like i'm the only person who reads articles on
suede around here. dammit, i can't remember which article i read that said
the whole band varied the instruments they played, but i generally read Q or
Select, and a couple interviews off the suede websites. and it's hardly a
"bizarre" idea. it's just the damn truth, is all. i'm simply telling you
what i get from interviews with suede, and you act like i sit here and dream
this shit up. ever think of how silly it makes you look if i'm actually
right?
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett
Fookin Caged Tigah wrote:
>
> as for "the power" i guess we're at a standstill.
Uh, no, you've lost. Bernard's confirmed as well; it's his. Trust me,
I'll get Suede's management office to confirm it further if you can't
accept that.
--
O-O-O- Founder of the alt.music.alternative Court of Star Chamber O-O-O-
O-O- Minister of Obscure Musics, Britpop/Isolationist Division, DNRC O-O
Ned Raggett n...@kuci.org nrag...@uci.edu
Listowner for the Oasis, Suede, Sparks and T. Rex lists -- ask for info!
"When it's time to change you won't know how
It won't matter years from now
No matter what you think/Or do or say/Everything turns grey..."
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O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O- http://kuci.org/~nraggett/ O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-
Lulu
In article <6cqfpa$od4$1...@gte1.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
<moz...@gte.net> wrote:
> brett himself did grant that he wasn't a *real* guitar player, but that
>he could play. you have NO reason to believe otherwise.
No, we don't. And no one has said that he can't play guitar. The only
thing that has been refuted has mainly been your bizarre and unfounded
assertion that Brett 'often' played other people's instruments on Coming
Up, despite he himself saying he wasn't a great guitarist and no one in
Suede ever claiming anything like that at all.
I'm starting to become very curious as to where you get your information...
Fookin Caged Tigah
no, shithead, we're still at a standstill. how does you saying "bernard's
confirmed it as his" carry any more weight than me saying "brett confirmed
it as his"? please explain!!! like i said, until someone brings in a
higher authority here, i don't see how your post makes any difference from
the other people who have also heard the opposite of what i heard (from
brett's mouth, interview conducted at the time between "dogmanstar" and the
release of "coming up").
i might be wrong about whether brett wrote it or not, but it would only be
because brett lied about it. i am NOT wrong that he did claim it.
so go get suede's management service, because what we DON'T need is more
unsubstantiated quotes.
bullet lover
In article <01bd3f2e$9f684c20$LocalHost@default>, "boeg"
<emil...@post9.tele.dk> wrote:
just because he may have played guitar doesn't mean he wrote it!!!!!
-kerry
--
"if you don't ask me out to dinner i don't eat."
- stanley donwood
Lulu
In article <6crbi9$a0l$1...@gte2.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
<moz...@gte.net> wrote:
>no, shithead, we're still at a standstill. how does you saying "bernard's
>confirmed it as his" carry any more weight than me saying "brett confirmed
>it as his"? please explain!!!
Mainly because NO ONE but you has ever seen anything saying that Brett has
confirmed anything of the sort. I've certainly never seen him imply
anything other than what Bernard says: it's partially his. And until YOU
come up with a source for this quote besides 'jesus i don't know what i
read it in', I'm going with Bernard's quote which has been published just
about everwhere. It's a lot more reliable than something I've never seen,
and that no one else seems to have seen either.
Fookin Caged Tigah
alright, goddammit, i TOLD you you were standing on weak ground trying to
say i didn't actually read such information, but you insist on saying so
anyway. i'm pretty sure my best friend back in iowa has the issue, so i'm
gonna find out the name of the magazine. if he doesn't have it anymore,
i'll talk to the friend i ripped it off from. oooooh, if i find that damn
issue, i'm going to make it quite clear what a buffoon you are for doubting
me. either way it's not really a big deal to me, since i'm fully aware of
the reality of the situation, and in that light, little ants screaming the
opposite of what i know to be true are quite simply amusing and funny to
see.
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett
Fookin Caged Tigah wrote:
>
> little ants screaming the
> opposite of what i know to be true are quite simply amusing and funny to
> see.
And what a charming life you must lead if you waste your time doing
craig peacock
> There were strong rumours that the electric guitar on "The Power" was
> played by a session musician - copying Bernard's demo. What do you
> think of that? Any thruth in it?
>
>I've heard the same rumor several times, and there probably is some
>truth to it. I don't mean to sound cynical, but I have a hard time
>believing Brett is a passable enough guitarist to do the track himself.
>
>Nicole
You could be right, but any guitarist will tell you that 'The Power' is
one of the simpler songs on the album so maybe Brett had a go at it. I
doubt that a studio musician was called in, I think that was a theory
once put forward that has conveniently become the accepted truth...
Lulu
In article <6ct48r$et$1...@gte2.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
<moz...@gte.net> wrote:
>alright, goddammit, i TOLD you you were standing on weak ground trying to
>say i didn't actually read such information, but you insist on saying so
>anyway. i'm pretty sure my best friend back in iowa has the issue, so i'm
>gonna find out the name of the magazine. if he doesn't have it anymore,
>i'll talk to the friend i ripped it off from. oooooh, if i find that damn
>issue, i'm going to make it quite clear what a buffoon you are for doubting
>me. either way it's not really a big deal to me, since i'm fully aware of
>the reality of the situation, and in that light, little ants screaming the
>opposite of what i know to be true are quite simply amusing and funny to
>see.
Please come back when the Prozac kicks in.
Cheers,
Lulu, still waiting for this quote's source to materialise...
Persi
In article <bitchyspice-23...@ip-81-103.phx.dialup.dancris.com>,
bitchyspice@*.geocities.com says...
>
>In article <6ct48r$et$1...@gte2.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
><moz...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>alright, goddammit, i TOLD you you were standing on weak ground trying to
>>say i didn't actually read such information, but you insist on saying so
>>anyway. i'm pretty sure my best friend back in iowa has the issue, so i'm
>>gonna find out the name of the magazine. if he doesn't have it anymore,
>>i'll talk to the friend i ripped it off from. oooooh, if i find that damn
>>issue, i'm going to make it quite clear what a buffoon you are for doubting
>>me. either way it's not really a big deal to me, since i'm fully aware of
>>the reality of the situation, and in that light, little ants screaming the
>>opposite of what i know to be true are quite simply amusing and funny to
>>see.
>
>Please come back when the Prozac kicks in.
Prozac usually starts to kick in within a week, so I'm assuming we won't have
much of a wait. :)
Better off giving him Paxil or Zoloft, instead.
--
In My CD Changer/Stereo:
Windsor For The Derby - Metropolitan Than Poland EP
Hood - Rustic Houses, Forelorn Valleys
DJ Spooky - Synthetic Fury EP
Quote:
"What's the difference between the Acadamy
Award nominees and the President of the US?
Non whites have a chance to become President"
- Entertainment Weekly
Fookin Caged Tigah
in the meantime, why don't you all spare us the PREDICTABLE sarcasm and
actually bother to find some sources yourselves. you might have noticed,
but you've failed to provide any yourselves...we've simply been given
generalizations like "90% of the people in this forum have read it" when
referring to about three or four individuals, or "it's been published
everywhere"
oh, yeah, "everywhere"...i forgot about that mag.
i'm doing my research. my best friend knows the magazine i'm talking about,
and is going to get back to me on it. making an effort to supply your own
resources won't make your sarcasm so hollow and laughable...
Neil Kothari
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett wrote:
>
> Fookin Caged Tigah wrote:
> >
> > as for "the power" i guess we're at a standstill.
>
> Uh, no, you've lost. Bernard's confirmed as well; it's his. Trust me,
> I'll get Suede's management office to confirm it further if you can't
> accept that.
I remember reading an article that Suede's label put out after the
release of the album where they were basically trying to do some
quick spin doctoring on Bernard's departure. They wrote something to
the effect that though Butler is present on most of the album, on
"The Power" it's all Brett.
I think they're basically saying that Butler didn't play on the album
version of the Power... they never made it clear to me that Butler
hadn't made the original demo.
Actually, I just remembered where I read it -- it was the press release
on Sony's website (www.sonymusic.com) under their "London (sic) Suede"
category. They've since removed their site because www.londonsuede.com
was created.
--
NK...@worldnet.att.net -- koth...@umdnj.edu
nk...@yahoo.com -- nk...@geocities.com -- nk...@iname.com
UMDNJ-NJMS '00 -- http://www.umdnj.edu/~kotharne/
An Excess of INXS -- http://www.umdnj.edu/~kotharne/inxs.html
The Best of 1997 -- http://www.umdnj.edu/~kotharne/music1997.html
Fookin Caged Tigah
oh, fabulous, i should be more agreeable...of course. i shouldn't be so
damn stubborn about what i know i read...
i have a very clear memory of reading the article. it was from a magazine
that still exists in my best friend's home.
the theory i am fighting says that perhaps i didn't actually read the
article. or whatever i read didn't say what i'm saying it said.
what possible grounds would i have for being "open" to that possibility???
i'm merely insisting on something that is very obvious to me. what if i
were to start accusing you of having mis-shapen earlobes? and when you
denied it, i said "you're not being very open to opposing theories, you
know."
and if i'm so "i'm right, damn you all to hell" why did i bother asking
people to please support THEIR claims??? i have simply stated that i intend
to support my claim, and am asking the same. instead, what i have
repeatedly gotten is constant meaningless sarcastic remarks that might fool
those taken in by rhetoric, but i'm far too familiar with rhetoric to be
impressed at all.
oh, i hope i can get some more empty snide remarks in return for this
post!!! don't you really feel though that your snideness might at least
have SOME ground to stand on if somebody could provide ONE source for the
opposing argument??? and where is that guy who was going to ask the suede
management service???
as i said before, it may very well be true that brett didn't write "the
power," i'm open to that possibility. but when you come off like "oh, who
are you fooling, you didn't REALLY read that!" then i will be quite stubborn
on the issue. surely you must realize how ridiculous your complaining about
my inflexibility is.
Fookin Caged Tigah
okay, my friend will get his hands on the issue later to look at the
specific month,etc.
but the name of it is "the big takeover"
it's a uk publication, of course.
again, it was published in between dogmanstar and coming up.
brett is on the cover, looking horrid.
the interview is with him and simon.
i'll have more info later
Lulu
In article <6cu2cv$k...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>,
cow...@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com (Persi) wrote:
>In article <bitchyspice-23...@ip-81-103.phx.dialup.dancris.com>,
>bitchyspice@*.geocities.com says...
>>In article <6ct48r$et$1...@gte2.gte.net>, "Fookin Caged Tigah"
>><moz...@gte.net> wrote:
>>>alright, goddammit, i TOLD you you were standing on weak ground trying to
>>>say i didn't actually read such information, but you insist on saying so
>>>anyway. i'm pretty sure my best friend back in iowa has the issue, so i'm
>>>gonna find out the name of the magazine. if he doesn't have it anymore,
>>>i'll talk to the friend i ripped it off from. oooooh, if i find that damn
>>>issue, i'm going to make it quite clear what a buffoon you are for doubting
>>>me. either way it's not really a big deal to me, since i'm fully aware of
>>>the reality of the situation, and in that light, little ants screaming the
>>>opposite of what i know to be true are quite simply amusing and funny to
>>>see.
>>Please come back when the Prozac kicks in.
>Prozac usually starts to kick in within a week, so I'm assuming we won't have
>much of a wait. :)
Yeah, but I'm not saying go away for a long time. Just when he becomes a
bit more agreeable and a bit less I'M RIGHT DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL. And
hopefully with the ability to quote posts.
Cheers,
Lulu
BiGirl4266
>From: Peter Westermark
>I disagree. Personally I think that "Dog Man Star" is the best album ever
>made (yes, I do know that these are big words) and the production is part of
>it.
I hated some songs on Dog Man Star, but upon hearing those same songs live, I
fell in love with them. I felt the production for certain songs was definitely
overblown and ridiculous.
>If they had made "Still Life" with just an acoustic
>guitar and nothing more it would still have been a good song, but the
>orchestrating made it great, IMO.
I hated touches like that. That's what ruined it for me. It was too much.
IMO.
Who's the new producer?
Bi Bi,
Elonna from New York
BiGirl4266
>From: "Mohsin Wadee"
>You silly cocksucker, good riddance to you birdbrain. In fact I haven't read
>a single intelligent piece in this worthless newsgroup.
Your own "piece" being the least intelligent thing I've read today. Insulting
people simply because their opinion differs from yours? Nobody here is saying
"Suede Sucks".
Some people who love this band are saying certain songs were overproduced by
Buller, and I have to agree with them.
>Fact is the first 2
>albums were fucking classics, maybe Ed could have done better, but hey, even
>Eno has his bad days.
Fact is, your "fact" is just an opinion. Just like everyone else's. Maybe you
should think about that before insulting people, simply because their opinions
aren't the same as your (so called) "facts".
>So there you twats.
>Mohsin
So eat my rag.
Persi
In article <6d0bj1$lcg$1...@gte1.gte.net>, moz...@gte.net says...
>
>oh, fabulous, i should be more agreeable...of course. i shouldn't be so
>damn stubborn about what i know i read...
You might consider quoting the text that you are following up in the future
as well. Helps us all figure out what the hell you are referring to.
--
In My CD Changer/Stereo:
Low - Transmission EP
Slow Death In The Metronome Factory (Compilation)
Animals On Wheels - Designs and Mistakes
Usenet Quote:
"Art is short for Arthur and
has no place in Rock n roll"
- br...@globalnet.co.uk
podj@feedme
> >From: Peter Westermark
> I hated some songs on Dog Man Star, but upon hearing those same songs live, I
> fell in love with them. I felt the production for certain songs was definitel
y
> overblown and ridiculous.
>
i mean, imagine how much a song like the wild ones would improve if they just li
fted
the echo off brett's voice. i never liked dog man star at all apart from new
generation until i got a bootleg of a show pre-dog man star which had early vers
ions
of songs that would turn up on the album... and that was a lot better.
sorry, as much as i like suede, the sad fact is i don't like any of their albums
at all.
they're all flawed one way all the other. (suede has some bad songs, dms has cra
ppy
production, coming up has bad songs).
i don't know... the future for suede looks bleak to me.
podj
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Colm Dougan
BiGirl4266 wrote:
> I hated some songs on Dog Man Star, but upon hearing those same songs live, I
> fell in love with them. I felt the production for certain songs was definitely
> overblown and ridiculous.
I couldn't agree more. Before I got Dog Man Star I saw (and taped)
Suede on
Later... with Jools Holland and they did "Still Life" and "The Wild
Ones" with
only an acoustic guitar - and it was wonderful.
Then when I got the album I hated the way those two songs had been
produced.
I think that the orchestration on Still Life, while an excellent piece
of music,
takes away from what the meaning of the song.
Does anyone know why Buller actually left - did he jump or was he
pushed?
Cheers
Colm
Mohsin Wadee
BiGirl4266 wrote in message
<19980225070...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Maybe all I was trying to say is that some silly Suede fans have got more
than their poor producer to worry about, if Part 2 of Sci-Fi Lullabies is
anything to go by, although there are a few excellent tracks, but nowhere
near as compelling as Part 1.
Mohsin
Fookin Caged Tigah
sorry, i thought it was completely apparent to anybody reading the thread
what i was talking about. i was of course referring to reading an interview
with brett anderson claiming that "the power" was his song. he also claimed
"he's dead" and "where the pigs don't fly" although nobody seems to dispute
me there. as far as a direct quote, i've not been able to get my best
friend to flip through the damn mag yet (he's a lazy git), but i have
provided the name of the magezine, a description of the cover, and the
general time period that it was published in.
i also said that i read from brett that the band had all played different
instruments in the studio, and that was also questioned for some completely
obscure reason. i am unfortunately unable to remember where i read it.
however, i DID read it. it's amazing how nothing i say can be considered
true unless i provide the name, date and page number of the magazine it
appeared in. i imagine i'll be a reasonable fucker and not automatically
hold the same expectations for every damn thing i read in here myself. and
if someone assures me they've read something and remember it precisely, i'll
probably trust them.
Mohsin Wadee
Colm Dougan wrote in message <34F3F0...@qub.ac.uk>...
Oh gee, you may as well join silly Eric Clapton unplugged fans.
danlos emmanuel
>Maybe all I was trying to say is that some silly Suede fans have got more
>than their poor producer to worry about, if Part 2 of Sci-Fi Lullabies is
>anything to go by, although there are a few excellent tracks, but nowhere
>near as compelling as Part 1.
>
>Mohsin
>
Right, the second part of sci-fi is less interesting than the first part.
Some of the songs are really avoidable (duchess for example)
But some really good tracks too (have you ever been this low? or W.S.D)
Anyway, remember they're just b-sides and are really great compared to some
groups a-sides
Emmanuel