Jack of Speed lyric - 'trading fours'
Nick Yeast
phrases I don't comprehend, but this one's got me intrigued. Does
anyone know what 'trading fours' means?
For convenience:
"Better move now, little Darlin', or you'll be
Trading fours with the Jack of Speed"
I assume that 'trading fours' implies a close and active association
of some kind, and that the lyric serves as a warning that the person
being addressed would become hooked herself.
But is 'trading fours' a phrase in common usage anywhere other than in
this song? (My only conjecture is that it might be a term used by
musicians meaning to trade off taking the melody 'four bars at a
time', sort of like a duet)
Thanks!!
Nick Yeast
clu...@bigfoot.com
Martin Stender
so trading fours with a dead person is not a good thing.
Anyway, that's how I see it.
Martin
Fearless
using www.deja.com for "trading fours" in this newsgroup.
You'll probably find a dozen messages in the past two weeks.
The following is a reply I posted to an earlier message on
the same topic a week ago:
"Teddy's not a major dude; he's hooked on drugs. Trading
fours has several
meanings but the one favored here is the jazz term where one
musician plays
four bars and then another plays four bars and they "trade
fours" back and
forth. In the context of JOS, it seems to mean that if 'lil
darlin' gives
into Teddy's pleas, she'll be
leaving/staying/leaving/staying etc (i.e. in a
no-win situation or 'trading fours')"
--
Marc "Fearless" Feldesman
(remove "hormel" to reply privately)
"Our motto here at camp is 'clean mind, clean body - take
your pick'"
"Nick Yeast" <nos...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:2coofs408il7424dp...@4ax.com...
: Normally, I don't spend huge amounts of time trying to
decode Dan
: phrases I don't comprehend, but this one's got me
intrigued. Does
: anyone know what 'trading fours' means?
:
: For convenience:
: "Better move now, little Darlin', or you'll be
: Trading fours with the Jack of Speed"
:
: I assume that 'trading fours' implies a close and active
association
: of some kind, and that the lyric serves as a warning that
the person
: being addressed would become hooked herself.
:
: But is 'trading fours' a phrase in common usage anywhere
other than in
: this song? (My only conjecture is that it might be a term
used by
: musicians meaning to trade off taking the melody 'four
bars at a
: time', sort of like a duet)
:
: Thanks!!
:
: Nick Yeast
: clu...@bigfoot.com
:
:
Nick Yeast
mean?
Nick Yeast
clu...@bigfoot.com
On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:05:10 +0200, mar...@pib.dk (Martin Stender)
wrote:
>At that point, our daredevil has 'gone into the light' - i.e he's dead -
>so trading fours with a dead person is not a good thing.
>Anyway, that's how I see it.
>
>Martin
>
>Nick Yeast <nos...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
richf...@my-deja.com
nos...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> Normally, I don't spend huge amounts of time trying to decode Dan
> phrases I don't comprehend, but this one's got me intrigued. Does
> anyone know what 'trading fours' means?
>
>
> this song? (My only conjecture is that it might be a term used by
> musicians meaning to trade off taking the melody 'four bars at a
> time', sort of like a duet)
>
You've got it almost exactly, Nick. Trading fours is something in
jazz, where the members of the combo take turns taking little four-bar
mini-soloes. In many cases, the drummer takes every other turn so that
it's: piano - drums - guitar - drums - bass - drums, etc.
Hard to pin down exactly what "tradin' fours with the jack of speed"
would entail, but Donald and Walter talk about this line in their
interview in the new Performing Songwriter magazine (which I very
cheapskatishly read all 10 pages of in Borders the other day).
They admitted that they had created a whole new idiom (in the sense of
an expression) with the phrase "jack of speed," - I think they meant
this to mean the drug itself, or its influence on one's life, the
addiction - and not as a reference to the person taking the drugs. So
they said, that, in this sense, the Jack Of Speed, is a very
competitive, dangerous guy, and they thought that the idea of tradin'
fours with him would be pretty scary. Something like that....go read
the interview!
richforman
> Thanks!!
>
> Nick Yeast
> clu...@bigfoot.com
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Greg Anderson
> Hard to pin down exactly what "tradin' fours with the jack of speed"
> would entail, but Donald and Walter talk about this line in their
> interview in the new Performing Songwriter magazine (which I very
> cheapskatishly read all 10 pages of in Borders the other day).
> They admitted that they had created a whole new idiom (in the sense of
> an expression) with the phrase "jack of speed," - I think they meant
> this to mean the drug itself, or its influence on one's life, the
> addiction - and not as a reference to the person taking the drugs.
Teddy, not Jack, is the user. I interpret "Jack of Speed" to mean the rush
he gets from using speed -- feeling "jacked" (up). Addicts fall in love with
that rush. It's why they keep going back.
When the narrator warns the girlfriend to get out now, or she'll be "tradin'
fours with the Jack of Speed," he means she will never have Teddy's full
attention ever again. The addiction has taken over, regardless of his pleas
to the contrary. In fact, the lyrics are full of warnings that his addiction
has been getting worse, not better: he's "gone," he's "skating backwards,"
he's a "one way rider," and there is "no way back from there to here."
However good their relationship was at the beginning, those days are over,
and she needs to walk away before she gets hurt any more.
Maybe you need to have lived with an addict (or at least know someone
intimately who has lived with one) to get this song's full meaning. Because
if you have, the message is painfully clear and true to life.
Greg
DrJ
[instead of 5,836 in the datebase with no chronolgy].
i just don't understand it... but i'm all tingly again. sniff.
David
Kathryn Ballard
Greg Anderson <gr...@afstrade.com> nailed it in message:
> When the narrator warns the girlfriend to get out now, or she'll be
"tradin' fours with the Jack of Speed," he means she will never have
Teddy's full attention ever again. The addiction has taken over, regardless
of his pleas to the contrary. In fact, the lyrics are full of warnings that
his addiction has been getting worse, not better: he's "gone," he's "skating
backwards," he's a "one way rider," and there is "no way back from there to
here."
EXCELLENT analysis, Greg, most likely the best I've read so far!
Not only has it taken over, but it's *been* warming up to that point of
meltdown for 10 years; the warning to the girlfriend should have been
painfully obvious!
My father is a musician and a recovering alcoholic who turned to drugs
(particularly cocaine) as a very young man. When I listen to this song, I'm
reminded of how I used to hear my mother say that my father "had changed"
since she'd met him in high school. Sadly, when they had started dating, he
was 16 and clean. By the time they divorced, he was "gone," at 28, just
like in the lyrics. He's alive today after having sought help, but he was a
prisoner of his addictions for over 15 years and made a living hell out of
the lives of the people he touched in the meantime.
Greg, the lines you quoted, along with the full
"Ten years rolling almost every night ... skating backwards at the speed of
light ... he's changed .... in a thousand little ways, he's changed", hit
home for me along with the analysis you stated. Not only does the _addict_
skate backwards, but s/he also pulls everyone else along for the frightening
ride.
It's practically universal that the true victims (the people who have to
live with someone in a mess like this) always defend their choice of a mate
who has turned to drugs by saying that that person is no longer the same
person as before. In the case with my parents, from the beginning to the
end of their relationship, after 12+ years together (10 married), my mother
swears that what emerged of my father was a completely different person in
the end. I believe it. There's no way that a sober person could have done
some of the maniacal things he did.
> However good their relationship was at the beginning, those days are over,
and she needs to walk away before she gets hurt any more.
Maybe you need to have lived with an addict (or at least know someone
intimately who has lived with one) to get this song's full meaning. Because
if you have, the message is painfully clear and true to life.
<touches her nose and points at Greg repeatedly -- "Exactly.">
Yours,
Kathryn Ballard
P.S. Thanks for reading!
Nick Yeast
Jack of Speed is far and away my favourite track on the album. It's
interesting that Steely Dan's material nowadays almost invariably
sounds better live than on the album (my own $.02) - what a reversal.
The musical and technical craftsmanship that went into 2VN is clear,
and I admire it in and of itself. Still, for me, SDs music has become
less compelling as it moved from 'anticeptic' to 'sterile' beginning
with Gaucho and on through Kamakiriad to 2VN (again, purely IMHO).
Maybe it's because I'm not a musician (at best a rank amateur) that I
don't feel as drawn to their more recent work; I appreciate it, but it
doesn't move my soul to the same degree. I listen to 2VN often and
smile wryly at every track - hey, it's definitely the Dan I love - but
Jack of Speed was the only cut that grabbed me by the privates and
demanded my attention.
Thanks again to all who responded!
Nick Yeast
clu...@bigfoot.com
On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:11:54 -0700, "Fearless" <n...@onyourlife.com>
wrote:
Steely105
I heard Skunk Baxter is running for Congress (republican platform). The line:
"that right wing hooey sure stunk up the joint. He's gone - he walks through
the old routines, But he's gone - guaranteed"
I thought Fagen was here referring to Skunk's being "lost" to the right wing.
The words "stunk up" and "right wing hooey" seem pretty ironic to me...
Interesting how everyone interprets something different into the same SD lyric.
I'm convinced...the lyrics originate from some kind of otherworldly alien
encryption ;-)
steel
flepi...@embarqmail.com
> Normally, I don't spend huge amounts of time trying to decode Dan
> phrases I don't comprehend, but this one's got me intrigued. Does
> anyone know what 'trading fours' means?
>
> "Better move now, little Darlin', or you'll be
> Trading fours with the Jack of Speed"
>
> I assume that 'trading fours' implies a close and active association
> of some kind, and that the lyric serves as a warning that the person
> being addressed would become hooked herself.
>
> this song? (My only conjecture is that it might be a term used by
> musicians meaning to trade off taking the melody 'four bars at a
> time', sort of like a duet)
>
>
> Nick Yeast
> clu...@bigfoot.com
TRADING FOURS IS A JAZZ MUSICIAN'S PHRASE. IT MEANS WHEN SOLOISTS PLAY A 4 BAR PHRASE, THEN HAND IT TO THE OTHER SOLOIST WHO, IN TURN PLAYS A 4 BAR PHRASE. THIS TRADING PHRASES BACK AND FORTH (MUSICAL SPARRING, IF YOU WILL) IS A WAY TO TEST THE OTHER PLAYERS ABILITY TO IMPROVISE ACROSS A SET OF CHORD CHANGES AND CAN ALSO LEAD TO A BUILDING IN INTENSITY TO THE MUSIC. THIS CAN BE DONE ONCE OR MANY TIMES, DEPENDING ON THE SETTING AND COMPOSITION.
The old geezer
Paul Snyder
> I really like this song!!
The old geezer
> A little off-topic to the subject header, but same tune.
Was he elected????