Aja drummers
Greg Anderson
listings on Aja over the weekend. I noticed something that I had never
picked up before: In the rhythm section, there are only two bassists (mostly
Chuck Rainey, with a few by Walter), but the drummer is different on every
cut except two with Bernard Purdie. Isn't that odd? I got to thinking about
it while I was listening to I Got The News, because I figured it was the
same drummer as Aja (the rolls after "still be proud to know you" reminded
me of a section of Aja). Wrong!
Anyway, it seems like in most bands, the rhythm section tends to be the
stable element, since it can take a while for a drummer and bass player to
lock in to each other. Yet Donald and Walter went the other way on Aja. Does
anyone know the history behind this? For example, why not just use Porcaro
for all of most of it?
Greg
steve...@my-deja.com
I don't know a lot of history, but I remember when Porcaro died, that
one of the guys was recounting what a great drummer he was. The rhythm
section is very much a 'feel' situation and the drummer, in my mind has
the slight edge in influencing it, if you are using great players.
After cutting the formal 'band' loose, Fagen and Becker exploited their
freedom to go for the right feel to the max. The anecdote recounted at
the time of Porcaro's passing was that they were doing basics for the
Royal Scam or maybe Aja and Porcaro was struggling to come up with a
feel that satisfied the artists (can't remember the tune). He
appparently got frustrated and threw his sticks down and said he just
couldn't "get it...why don't you call (Bernard Purdie, Steve Gadd or
someone)". He apparently hung in for a long time and eventually "got
it" for them.
D and F have admitted to being 'pretty hard' on the guitar players they
used. I think they were at least as picky about the feel of the songs
as well. I saw an article on one of the SD web sites about an Aja
reunion of most of the original players. Someone (coulda been Becker or
Fagen) discussed how they specifically Didn't want the same feel (I
think Bernard Purdie was mentioned in a very positive way, but as an
example) song to song, album to album. They had the freedom to use a
lot of colors in the studio and they did. I've also read quotes from
Larry Carlton that D and F would have a song almost or completely
finished and decide the feel wasn't right and start over from scratch.
This off course, again after the band days whene they had the budget to
do such things.
You have to admit the feel and groove is consistantly excellent, and
possibly more 'upfront' as far as a real basis for the tune on all the
songs from Royal Scam on.
Steve
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Kevin Watson
Great topic Greg!
I can't pretend to know exactly why SD used a variety of drummers on the Aja
album, but I am glad they did. Of course, by this state in the Dan affair,
Walt and Don were pushing the personnel to make the best pass on the track
possible, so it's is likely that some of the drummers played at least a pass on
many of the album's tracks, and the final product was simply a selection.
In addition, Steve Gadd's playing on 'Aja', which I understand won him a grammy
(or at least a nom.), is so many things superlative, that perhaps his sound was
conserved to just the one track, as opposed to Gaucho where he was used on three
tracks. The difference with Gaucho is that the three tracks he played were
fairly different in rythm and pace. "Glamour Profession' sounds fairly
mechanized, and there may be some drum machine as set up by Gadd in that one.
'My rival' and "Third World Man' also have Gadd, and while TWM sounds at first
like a straight up tune for someone on the skins, listen closely, you will hear
the Gadd voodoo in there.
If you've listened to Gadd, you may hear that he has his tendencies just like
any other musician. Of course, for Gadd, tendencies are technical challenges
that most drummers salivate at, but he does have them. For example, his
drumming on di Meola's 'Casino' has the same 'Berty' tom rolls that you'll hear
on Aja. "Same" is used loosely here, but my point is Aja could be a lesson in
'variety is the spice of life.'
With Aja, SD had most of these dummers in certain situations on other albums,
and maybe they felt like a variety would allow each song to have its own
character. In this case the unifier is not the rythym section, but the vocals,
mid-range rythym (horns, keys).. In Royal Scam, the unifier was Larry Carlton's
lead, and the album rides that well.
Of course this is all speculation . . . .
steve...@my-deja.com
Kevin Watson <wat...@mail.auburn.edu> wrote:
>
> I can't pretend to know exactly why SD used a variety of drummers on
the Aja
> album, but I am glad they did. Of course, by this state in the Dan
affair,
> Walt and Don were pushing the personnel to make the best pass on the
track
> possible, so it's is likely that some of the drummers played at least
a pass on
> many of the album's tracks, and the final product was simply a
selection.
Excellent post, in depth...you must play drums. My only comment would
be that Gadd is such an excellent drummer that I would call
his 'tendencies'...."Style".
Also a possible theory on their use of Gadd more on Gaucho. I believe
Aja was basically an LA based project using the excellent studio talent
there. SD were soon to pack their bags and move to New York leaving LA
behind for good. They may have flown Gadd in for AJA or cut him in
their soon to be homebase NYC.
In any case Stebeve Gadd cut one of the alltime great musical drum
parts in his featured spot on the track AJA-I never call it a 'drum
solo' because of the sometimes negative connotations associated with
that term. He is improvising, but it is not free form timewise-he's
doing that fanstastic playing within the songs endout structure,
complete with the dropped beat (or 2) accents.
When SD did Gaucho, it was a New York project and Gadd is based there
so it would seem natural for him to get calls for a few more sessions.
Good catch as well on the drum machine feel on a couple of tunes. Fagen
and Becker have never been ones jump on a 'flavor of the month'
technical bandwagon, that's a reason the music generally avoids
the 'dated sound' of other bands of the time. The further you go of
into an outlandish sound or style, the more dated it sounds when that
style is 'out'. However drum machines were beginning to make a huge
impact on the entire industry in 1979-80 (one that would last several
years and be obnoxiosly overdone by lesser artists/producers.) So they
may have been influenced a bit by the trend, but didn't overuse it.
Isn't there a credit on the album for a fake name they gave the drum
machine or computer? In any case, things like "Hey 19" which I believe
is credited to a live drummer, has such a crisp, simple snappy snare
sound, that for years I thought it was a machine. It was probably just
a nice sounding "real" snare with a noise gate on it to give it a wee
touch of manipulated sound.
Howard Wright
steve...@my-deja.com wrote:
> When SD did Gaucho, it was a New York project and Gadd is based there
> so it would seem natural for him to get calls for a few more sessions.
<snip>
> Isn't there a credit on the album for a fake name they gave the drum
> machine or computer?
I think there's a credit to "Wendel, for sequencing and special effects".
Wendel was the name of the drum machine/sequencer that Roger Nichols built.
I think there is a credit to Wendel on the Nightfly as well.
Howard
Kevin Watson
steve...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Nice insight. I had no idea about the location switch between the two
> albums.
I feel like Gaucho's drum tracks just don't have that punch that TRS or KL
seem to have. The Nightfly also seems to be missing that kick in the
pants. I wonder if that is because of the mastering, in other words,
Gaucho and the Nightfly especially were on the early edge of digital
recording, whereas the previous albums were firmly and thoroughly analog.
In fact, Aja is still used a 'check' for hi end audio. But the high ends
are so prominent on Gaucho and Nightfly, I usually have to re-mix the
sounds pretty good through equalization to get low end out of it. Perhaps
this weill be remedied with remasters (anyone know if this is in progress
or done?). But Gaucho and Nightfly do have that sterile drum quality no
matter what the freq. response is. I wonder if electronic as opposed to
acoustic drums were used on them . . . .
Jason Wilcox
>
> Here's a new topic for a new week: I was looking through the personnel
> listings on Aja over the weekend. I noticed something that I had never
> picked up before: In the rhythm section, there are only two bassists (mostly
> Chuck Rainey, with a few by Walter), but the drummer is different on every
> cut except two with Bernard Purdie. Isn't that odd? I got to thinking about
> it while I was listening to I Got The News, because I figured it was the
> same drummer as Aja (the rolls after "still be proud to know you" reminded
> me of a section of Aja). Wrong!
>
> Anyway, it seems like in most bands, the rhythm section tends to be the
> stable element, since it can take a while for a drummer and bass player to
> lock in to each other. Yet Donald and Walter went the other way on Aja. Does
> anyone know the history behind this? For example, why not just use Porcaro
> for all of most of it?
>
> Greg
record the same song with like 10 different drummers and then pick the
best take later. Porcaro didn't have the same modern jazz feel, or the
depth of jazz background as some. You need a real jazz player to do the
sort of interaction with Shorter that happens on Aja. - I think he was
more of a R&B/Funk influenced player with great feel and chops.
steve...@my-deja.com
I had mentioned the same Carlton quote in one of my posts...Becker and
Fagen had specifics in mind on feel when they had finally had the
freedom to pick rhythym sections. You'd be surprised how
many 'official' groups love their drummer (who is fine live) but run
into problems (especially if they do different feels on different
songs) by being locked into using the drummer. It drove Tom Petty nuts
for a while and was a contributing factor to him doing his first solo
release, where I think all the Heartbreakers played on some things
except the drummer. He eventually quit after 15 years or so.
One of the alltime drummer anecdotes is the one that has the Beatles
(who had replaced Pete Best with Ringo Starr). Most folks have heard
that after their first session, Martin had pulled Epstien and maybe
Lennon aside and said Pete wasn't gonna cut it in the studio-so at the
next session Martin had a session drummer on hand, only to find out the
Beatles had replaced Best with Starr. Apparently Ringo still only
played percussion on "Love Me Do", their first modest hit (Martin said
he did multiple takes and let Ringo play on one, which is on their
anthology collection as an outtake).
The lesser known story (which I've posted before)is that after"Love Me
Do" was a mid size hit in Britain, Brian Epstein knew it was do or die
time for the Beatles. EMI had given the go ahead for more sessions and
the manager knew they had to come up with some hits.
He ordered the band to work hard- Harrison says John and Paul came up
with their strongest writing to date and wrote such tunes as She Loves
You, I Wanna Hold, All My Lovin etc which were then rehearsed and
arranged intensely before the went in to record them. Epstien was
pleased at with the results but felt (perhaps Martin did too) that some
songs still needed more punch. He apparently took the masters of
several of those early songs to New York where a kickin young Benard
Purdie overdubbed the drums. The example most often mentioned is
probably the strongest Beatles 'dance' song, their cover of "Twist and
Shout." The Best/Starr snafu has been discussed publicly by Marin and
Ringo, the Purdie overdubs aren't talked about much..but I've read
quotes from Purdie talking about his doing it. It's not in his
discography however.
I had the good fortune to see Porcaro play live several times with Boz
Skaggs, Les Dudek and once with Toto. He defintitely had a deep pocket
he played from, a lot of Skaggs music is pop/R and B. But he was also a
superb rocker, continuously inventive while holding down a strong
groove. I frequently would find myself mesmerized watching him instead
of the star. I call it that kind of playing 'magic hands'.
In the 70's, drummer Russ Kunkel did a lot of sessions and toured
behind some big names...he had the same ability to lift the band live
with his groove and very creative fills and punches. Adding to the
music but only in a complimentary way...everything always 'fit' and the
songs sounded better for it. It's a rare talent to be able to add to
the songs like that and never be have your playing be
considered 'overplaying.'
These days I find rock drummer Kenny Aaronnoff carrying that same torch-
originally with JC Melloncamp for all his big hits, now doing sessions
and touring behind top stars. When you see Kenny up there, get ready
for a great show as he never fails to inspire the bands he's in to play
at their best with his inventive and energetic playing, deeply routed
in his groove.
Greg Anderson
>You'd be surprised how
>many 'official' groups love their drummer (who is fine live) but run
>into problems (especially if they do different feels on different
>songs) by being locked into using the drummer.
Ah, this supports my theory that Spinal Tap's drummers did not just suffer a
string of coincidental "accidents." Nigel and David were trying to keep the
drum chair fresh. 8^)
Greg "Millions of people spontaneously combust every year. It's just not
widely reported."
Jason Wilcox
I'm saving it because as a music teacher you never know when that kind
of info might come in handy. All the best !
Michael Conroy
accident."
Michael Conroy
band called Streamwinner, and he was Cobhamesque. Then he totally
reinvented himself for Mellencamp. But the capper is the work he did on
tour with the Pumpkins last year. The guy can play anything...and well.
Michael Conroy
screw in the bulb and nine to discuss how Steve Gadd would have done it.
DrJ
>
> It is not well known, but Porcaro actually died in a "bizarre gardening
> accident."
anaphylactic shock- the ultimate allergic reaction [to some pesticide
herbicide fungacide he was applying which kicked back visciously and
committed Dan-o-cide]. this is a legitimate medical phenomenon- case in
point: person allergic to aspirin reached for the tylenol bottle at the
in-laws house for a headache. In-laws had no allergies, and a nod is as
good as a wink for headache relief- they had dumped the last 3 or 4
aspirin tabs into the tylenol bottle to save space in the med. chest.
the one with the allergy inadvertently ingested the aspirin.
the headache stopped rilly good. look up the word tragedy in the
dictionary- there might be a picture...
but:
there are those who slide this story on down the pigeon hole next to the
bit about Cass Elliot bit into her ham sammmich and choked...
another drug casualty???
Porcaro is sorely missed.
may we all die of very old age
David
Jackofdays
>screw in the bulb and nine to discuss how Steve Gadd would have done it.
<ba-DING!>
Curiosity killed the cat. But for a long time, the authorities suspected me.
There's nothing funny about AOL.
http://members.aol.com/membabe/libelsuit.htm
Jackofdays
>screw in the bulb and nine to discuss how Steve Gadd would have done it.
>
prematurely ejaculated, sorry... you all right, luv?
I meant to say Michael gets the rim shot for that one.
diane (whaddya mean girls can't? I do it all the time...)
Greg Anderson
>Michael Conroy wrote:
>>
>> It is not well known, but Porcaro actually died in a "bizarre gardening
>> accident."
>
>anaphylactic shock- the ultimate allergic reaction [to some pesticide
>herbicide fungacide he was applying which kicked back visciously and
>committed Dan-o-cide].
I think Michael was following up on my joke about Spinal Tap's drummers all
succumbing to mysterious deaths. "Bizarre gardening accident" is another
line from the movie.
Greg