DF: Rhodes or Wurlitzer?
Eric Petrusic
Does anyone here know whether DF used a Rhodes or a Wurlitzer
electric piano on the older albums? Some of both? I've heard that
Pretzel Logic (the song) was done on a Wurlitzer, but I could swear that
some of the other songs are a Rhodes.
For that matter, I don't suppose there is a comprehensive, or at
least extensive, discussion somewhere of what kind of equipment was used
on the various songs?
Eric
petr...@ibm.net
Steve_2000
welome, especially on this one. I'm shootin from the hip on this
Wurlitzer deal.-Steve
In article <3A60989C...@ibm.net>,
petr...@ibm.net wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Does anyone here know whether DF used a Rhodes or a Wurlitzer
> electric piano on the older albums? Some of both? I've heard that
> Pretzel Logic (the song) was done on a Wurlitzer, but I could swear
that
> some of the other songs are a Rhodes.
Hi Eric,
Your post gave me an excellent...uh reason...to listen to my shiny new
ShowBiz Kids CDs very closely yesterday after the Oakland Raiders broke
my heart.
I did a sorta track by track comparison, playing the cds on this
computer's CDrom player while posting. The new masters on ShowBiz Kids
sound Great. The best I've ever heard from SD, except maybe the first
play of a vinyl copy of Aja on a friend's very high end stereo in
1977...
Fortunately I upgraded the multimedia speakers on this baby a while
back and it's the sound is really clean.
Unfortunately it's an older machine and sometimes won't do the 2-things
at-once deal and AOL crashed right at the end of my online post..so
it's cyberdust. Damn Atari computer! Damn Almost On Line! I am gonna
upgrade computers and switch from freakin AOL! You just watch me.
Anyway, in my humble opinion...the unique Wurlitzer sound seems to be
all over a Lot of the earlier stuff.
This surprised the heck outa me. Don is such a Rhodes guy thesedays.
A 'Rhodes' is the only electric piano he plays on the 'road' (gong).
But, indeed on 'Pretzel Logic'-the song- you hear the more
compact 'musicbox' tonality of a Wurlitzer, along with the unique
punchy grindy notes down in the bass register. That's such a great song.
I checked a few other tunes...'Any Major Dude,' 'Dirty Work,' 'Change
of the Guard'-all said Wurlitzer to me. Those are such great songs.
It was hard to tell on 'Do It Again,' as the electric piano on that one
has a lot of tremolo (or, incorrectly, 'vibrato' on it) and the Rhodes
is known for it's built-in tremolo...but Wurlitzers may have it too,
dunno. Messed around with lots of Rhodes over the years, never a
Wurlitzer. I always stayed out of those traditional music stores which
sold mainly pianos and Wurlitzer console organs to old people..with
*maybe* one electric piano and No Guitars in the house.
Someone did tell us a while back that the plastic organ thingy listed
on CBAT's liner notes -and used for the keyboard solo on 'Do It Again'-
was a circa early 70s Yamaha combo organ with a glissando slider thing,
probably chosen by DF so he could bend notes in those pre-synth
times. 'Do It Again' is such a great song.
I noticed a lot of Wurlitzer early on the earlier albums. It almost
seemed to be the electric piano of choice when the song was built on a
major electric piano part. Hard to tell on stuff like 'Black Friday'-
as the Phamous Phaser began making it's appearance.
There's simply got to be a some Fender Rhodes on the early stuff, but -
again surprisingly to me-the Wurlitzer sound *seemed* to be in a lot
more tunes than I ever thought...probably coz I had never really
thought of it or listened really closely specifically to the tonality
of that instrument. I just assumed 'Rhodes' as it was the
major 'electric piano' sound used by Steely Dan in the later 70s- and
by a lot of other artists. Please feel free to weigh in on this.
In 60s, 70s and later, most fans-except musicians-weren't that 'gear'
oriented. The Beatles played 'Electric' guitars (except Ringo who
played Ludwig Drums...it said 'Ludwig' right over the big Beatles logo
on his kick drum which zillions of people saw). Best advertising
Ludwig ever had. Paul played a unique violin shaped left handed bass,
but it was years later till anyone cared it was a Hofner. Elton John
played 'grand pianos.' Eric Clapton played 'electric guitars'. A few
more fans knew that Jimi Hendrix played Fender Stratocasters -as the
image of him and that particular guitar was highly marketed...still is.
It's only been in recent years that some fans even care about the
actual brand or model of a specific musical instrument or amp anyone
used. You can now probably find out what brand and model of acoustic
guitar Elvis mainly held as a stage or movie prop and *sometimes*
played...through a quick internet search.
As Steely Dan's career progressed there is more Rhodes-and more
layering of sound.
You get a little more of a budget for more studio time, recording
technology improves to give you 24 or 48 tracks as opposed to maybe 16
on the first album....you've steadily developed as composers and
arrangers and now have some of the top session players in the world on
your dates...so yeah, things like keyboards start getting layered for
arrangement purposes and cool textures.
One thing I noticed was that instead of an all in one swiss army knife
sound like the Wurlitzer...the Guys started using layers such as an
ultra funky Hohner Clavinet for the bass range low keyboard stuff,
frequently playing a different line. The more open sounding Rhodes
would then sometimes be a (mixed back) anchor, frequently phase
shifted. Or they would use it as a part of their sound palette to drop
in chimey flourishes.
Up until yesterday, I used to think of 'Black Cow' as an ultimate
SD/Rhodes Sound song...and it is- but really only on Victor Feldman's
excellent Rhodes solo. On closer listen-during most of the rest of that
brilliant arrangement, the Rhodes is mixed pretty far back or doing
floaty (sp) chord things. The song is really built on the bass
guitar/clavinet lines along with a much more prominent rhythm guitar
than I had thought. The horns really add a lot if you listen... coming
in and out almost magically. That's such a great song. That's such a
perfect arrangement.
On 'Kid C'-big clavinet again, also other layered keyboard
sounds. 'Josie' seems to have the big funky rhythm guitar doubling a
(finally!) upfront Rhodes for the main groove, then additional Rhodes
(and/or other keyboard parts) layering in on the chorus changes. Those
are great songs.
Peg uses a layered composite of what sounds like a phased Rhodes and
*something else* to play the big main keyboard anchor. Great song.
When you move into Gaucho-land it finally really gets into the
straight, stark no-doubt-about-it 'Rhodes sound' on many tunes. This is
one of the reasons -along with the horn arrangements- that I thought
the Gaucho album had a 'Crusaders' type sound on the musical
arrangements...on my first listen. Joe Sample was a big Rhodes guy back
in the 70s.
It's also coz Steely Dan were very definitely moving in a Steely funky
jazz direction. They might delve into pop-jazz or pop funky jazz, maybe
still transform a blues progression (as many jazz players do) but their
rock and roll days- at least in the studio- were definitely over by
1980. They really sorta ended with Royal Scam but the great screaming
guitar solos kept some rock fans misdirected as Steely Dan forged its
own wonderful kind of music. Increasingly hip jazz changes cleverly
disguised as pop tunes-with state of the art jazz Rock guitar to keep
the rockers and players tuning in.
Those Gaucho songs are so great.
> For that matter, I don't suppose there is a comprehensive, or at
> least extensive, discussion somewhere of what kind of equipment was
used
> on the various songs?
>
> Eric
> petr...@ibm.net
>
See comments on musical gear above. Of course Steely Dan's music has
proven timeless and there is a lot of interest now in all things
Steely, including the gear. There have some mentions of it in
interviews with the Guys but they (along with Roger) are more apt to
talk about recording gear from those sessions than musical instruments.
Much, much easier to get detailed info on their current stage and
recording gear in these more gear conscious times with many magazines
now totally 'geared' to that topic and interviewing all the major
artists and players.
Brian Sweet's little book has some (probably usually correct, sorta)
Guesses on gear -though I've always had a hard time believing Elliot
Randall did his legendary guitar solo on 'Reelin In The Years' (great
song) through a 300 watt Ampeg SVT bass amp, ferchrissakes. I Do
believe he did it in one or two takes.
Sweet also has a great story on the Bosendorfer grand piano that is the
centerpiece for most songs on Katy Lied. It was apparently purchased by
the guys specifically for that album. And it's big presence on the Katy
Lied album-along with the guys doing their first album as essentially a
studio project-makes "Katy' such a unique and special record. That's
such a great album.
Some of the other members or session players have mentioned gear in
their own interviews.
Larry Carlton has said many times that although he was one of the
leading players to introduce Mesa Boogie amps to the world -and every
session cat in LA- he played his Gibson 335 guitar through an
inexpensive (but way Sweet) Fender Deluxe amp on all his Steely Dan
sessions. His tone secret? Great 'hands and feel and taste' and a 335
straight into a little Fender, cranked up. He returned to this basic
setup on his latest album, tho he still uses his $12,000 (no typo)
handmade Dumble amp live.
Jeff Baxter handbuilt some of the guitars he used during his Steely Dan
days. And Sometimes it was just an el supremo Les Paul or Strat.
Some of the early solos featured such nasty (in a good way) fuzz
box/distortion pedals that it almost didn't matter what type of guitar
or amp was used. The distortion boxes put their 'own' sound on the
whole thing. Baxter sometimes went totally the other way and was one of
the first players to feature a completely clean Fender Strat (heavily
compressed..he used/uses a Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer) straight into
the recording console. He used this sound a lot on his later jazzy
work as he helped transform the Doobie Bros. Baxter could always rock
it up on the Doobies older hits live, and as needed as the hot session
player he eventually became.
Walter is seen in the old video clips playing a Fender Jazz or
Precision bass. He was the bass player by default. Guitar is his main
instrument and they had *better* players in the original band, so he
mainly played bass. As we know he eventually took some great solos on
their later 70s records. Always sounded like a very compressed Strat
with lots of reverb/echo to me. Walter doesn't talk much about those
daze, but he'll tell interviewers exactly what he's been using since
the mid 90s.
I don't know of any detailed Steely Dan instrument/equipment list from
the 70s. It's pretty much hit and miss, you just pick up little things
here and there. Tossing out questions here in the newsgroup can get you
some responses.
And Thanks for asking the Wurlitzer question, Eric. It was a great ear
opener to Really Listen to the electric pianos -and Everything Else in
those great songs. What a great remaster ShowBiz Kids is.
Somebody oughta give these guys a grammy. 2VN or Cuz Dupree or just
General Excellence.
Steve
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Evognaf
I love the "attack " of the Wurlitzer. I wish I had one as well...
But my Rhodes 73 has big "sentimental value" to me.
Evognaf
Chris Smalt <sm...@wanadoo.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
B68A3B40...@i1209.vwr.wanadoo.nl...
>
> Steve wrote:
>
> >It was hard to tell on 'Do It Again,' as the electric piano on that one
> >has a lot of tremolo (or, incorrectly, 'vibrato' on it) and the Rhodes
> >is known for it's built-in tremolo...but Wurlitzers may have it too,
> >dunno. Messed around with lots of Rhodes over the years, never a
> >Wurlitzer.
>
> >I just assumed 'Rhodes' as it was the
> >major 'electric piano' sound used by Steely Dan in the later 70s
>
>
> Yeah, that's why I bought a Rhodes in 1979. Then I played a buddy's
> Wurlitzer, yanked its tremolo knob full right, and instant "Do it again".
> So I thought I got the wrong piano, until I noticed he only had like 70
> keys (mine was an 88 key), the tines broke more often and were hard to
> replace and very hard to tune, and the action wasn't so great. On the
> other hand, the Wurlitzer had a great "thwack" sound when you really
> smacked the keys. A Rhodes can have this too, but that requires careful
> tweaking and sometimes modification, and the right amplification.
> Fortunately, Gaucho was released, and the ocean of Rhodes chords in
Babylon
> Sisters left no doubt in my mind: I had the right piano all right.
>
> The Wurlitzer tremolo is mono, the Rhodes "vibrato" moves from left to
> right to left to right to...
>
>
> Chris
>
>