Required Reading List: Steely Dan 101
ti bon ange
lyrics to Steely Dan songs. But I think for most people, the
lyrics are haunting and thought-provoking, arcane, esoteric,
veiled, reflected and inscrutable.
I am reminded of a long-ago posting from our own Nyarlethotep
(sue me if I spelled it wrong), explaining that the album title
for "Two Against Nature" was something of a spinoff from JK
Huysmans' "Against Nature." That was a fertile and fascinating
discussion for me, since I'd never heard of Huysmans, ever.
The more I read about Huysmans, the more fascinating the details
became. I've yet to pick up my copy of "Against Nature," but it
is definitely on my list.
Which brings me to lists. I think I've probably expressed, ad
nauseum, how much I hate "best of" and "top ten" lists (unless
they are humorous, of course). I don't know how anyone could
narrow down a field of, say, guitar players and pronounce one of
those THE BEST. And there's no way I can list the Top 10
musicians I like the best.
But how about a Steely Dan reading list, promoting a deeper
understanding (or at least, some occasional context) of the
lyrics of Becker and Fagen? The list would obviously
contain "Naked Lunch" and "Against Nature."
But what else would be on a list like this? Obviously, something
educational and unhysterical about voodoo and all its various
incarnations (African, Haitian, New Orleans) would be advised.
And a rudimentary understanding of all world religions,
especially Buddhism, Judaism and Lutheranism could add a great
deal of depth.
Mostly, of course, one would hope the reason for reading would
be one's own inner satisfaction. But if someone, someday, starts
teaching a class on songwriting and the focus of one section was
the Fagen/Becker collaborative process, how would the syllabus
read, and what titles would be on the required reading list?
Here's hoping The Usual Suspects and hidden lurkers will find
this an equal-opportunity-for-posting subject!
love and kisses
diane
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN Webring
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Mal
Paleolithic Cave Art by Peter J Ucko and Andrew Rosenfeld
Mal
joe_sovacool
forget which number it's from, but this little snippet remains
lodged in my block:
"Nothing nada like this scene
Of apish majesty
in April's hide of hair"
but it's all pretty much jazz-inflected. i'll keep thinkin.
best,
joe
ti bon ange
>"Nothing nada like this scene
>Of apish majesty
>in April's hide of hair"
hmmmm... I don't know that reference, although it would seem
logical to find somewhere around the 224th Chorus, which reads,
in part:
"All has been done."
As Therevada say "Nothing"
Nada moonshine number, what's been done?
Now if anyone could pull a Kerouac reference out of thin air, it
would be Dave Moore (of "Catalyst" fame).
Dave?
love and kisses
diane
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Dave Moore
joe_sovacool <jsovacoo...@charlotteobserver.com.invalid> wrote
> i really, really like Mexico City Blues.
> i forget which number it's from, but this
> little snippet remains lodged in my block:
>
> "Nothing nada like this scene
> Of apish majesty
> in April's hide of hair"
>
> but it's all pretty much jazz-inflected. i'll keep thinkin.
>
> best,
> joe
Perfect quote, Joe. 137th chorus - Aztec Blues.
Dave
Jeffer I
both from references to Voodoo (mostly carribean), and from the number of SD
references involved. While you really have to read all three of the books,
and this is the third, I think that this one is the closest to the whole
spirit of the thing.
Ethylthefrog
of 2vN for Salon.com. There's a lot of sci-fi references in SD
music, particularly "Sign In Stranger", which is perhaps the
first use of cyberpunk imagery in a song. Fagen claims to be an
SF fan . . . clearly the storylines and creations
of "Kamakiriad" reflect that sensibility. To the list, then, I
would add Bruce Sterling ("Islands In The Net") and Neil
Stephenson ("Snow Crash").
Do What You Want But Harm None
DrJ
ti bon ange wrote:
> <snip> how would the syllabus
> read, and what titles would be on the required reading list?
>
> Here's hoping The Usual Suspects and hidden lurkers will find
> this an equal-opportunity-for-posting subject!
>
> love and kisses
> diane
>
as soon as the blood tests come back... sure.
I'm as much of a usual suspect as a hidden lurker and taker of
sabaticals.
The top of my line up as it stands today [number 4, turn to your right
and air guitar
the outro solo from Kid C? oh my god officer, that's him... that's HIM]
is INFINITE JEST, by David Foster Wallace.
One of my favorite Beckerisms is the Naked Lunch quip: "if he doesn't
remember having written it
I don't see why I should remember reading it" [i probably paraphrase].
Well.
IJ is one of the finest books I eveready. Its positively charged with
the negative deconstruction of
culture [quick, what do you call what comes after postmodernism?] and
the nature of human addiction
[the nature of human nature?] Every character in the book is addicted to
something [different shit same struggle?]
[row, row... make the boat go] save for perhaps one. All could sing
their own verse of a Steely Dan Song.
The book is circuitous- but extrapolates a third dimension [like a
mobius strip], leaving the reader
standing [ seated or maybe supine, depending on how you're reading] upon
the same spot as begun-
only on the other side of the spot. Down, Spot. good Spot. I'm down
with the spot.
btw- nice thread DDeR. Imagine from the Pulp Fiction connection
reflections shared [you were from Missouri...],
imagine that as the closing credits are rolling QT fires up a Steely Dan
song. Hmmm. Which one should it be?
Night by Night!
"I'm trying, Ringo... I'm trying {to cash in this ten-cent life for
another one}"
fondly [to all my favorite connections in here]
David
okay. love and kisses, too.
ga...@garyt.force9.co.uk
art-collecting uncle, Van Veen meets Ada, his beautiful cousin. Their
relationship flourishes, but both were born into one of America's
illustrious families, a vast over-extended empire, and this causes
problems for the lovers."
This book, "a very famous and much-beloved novel about a familial
relationship"(WB), got a mention in an interview D+W did with "The
Independent" newspaper here in the UK. The novel was incorrectly
referred to as "Anna".
<<"The way Nabokov wrote about it in Anna", muses Fagen (a literature
major in his days at Bard college), "there could almost be a perfect
love between blood relatives...a love that could transcend that of
people who just chance to meet." He pauses a moment. "Not that we are
endorsing any of this, of course...">>
joe_sovacool
Diane, here's another for the list.
Genesis of a Music, Harry Partch, 1949 (revised 1974).
"The shadows of music are bred in deceit - half enticing,
half forbidding, with myriad degrees of light-dark
infusion- true interpretation with misinterpretation."
Reviews of this and others related:
http://www.nybooks.com/nyrev/WWWarchdisplay.cgi?20000720038R
best,
joe
ti bon ange
ADA OR ARDOR Vladimir Nabokov
AGAINST NATURE. JK Huysmans
GENESIS OF A MUSIC Harry Partch
INFINITE JEST David Foster Wallace
ISLANDS IN THE NET Bruce Sterling
MEXICO CITY BLUES Jack Kerouac
MONA LISA OVERDRIVE William Gibson
NAKED LUNCH William Burroughs
PALEOLITHIC CAVE ART Peter J Ucko and Andrew Rosenfeld
SNOW CRASH Neil Stephenson
To this list, I'd add
1984 George Orwell
A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES John Kennedy Toole
ABSTRACT-EXPRESSIONIST ART BOOKS-- Pollock, Kline, Kandinsky
BRAVE NEW WORLD Aldous Huxley
CHARLIE PARKER Max Harrison
JUNKY William Burroughs
HOWL Allen Ginsberg
LEAVES OF GRASS Walt Whitman
LOLITA Vladimir Nabokov
ON THE ROAD Jack Kerouac
QUEER William Burroughs
SIDDHARTHA Hermann Hesse
SIRENS OF TITAN, THE Kurt Vonnegut
SLAUGHTERHOUSE 5 Kurt Vonnegut
STEPPENWOLF Hermann Hesse
SUBTERRANEANS, THE Jack Kerouac
TROPIC OF CANCER Henry Miller
WAITING FOR GODOT Samuel Beckett
ZEN FLESH, ZEN BONES Paul Reps
The titles I've added here are really just very elementary (and
in some ways) "pop" books almost everyone has read. They're very
obvious, although that takes nothing away from their content.
Some are included because I think they contribute to broadening
one's perspective of possibilities. Others are books I think
contributed to Donald and/or Walter's own perspectives.
More!
love and kisses
diane
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN Webring
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joe_sovacool
hey, might as well throw em out there, along with some other
recent percolations:
The Goodbye Look, Ross Macdonald.
Stranger In A Srange Land, Robert A. Heinlein.
Actually, anything by these two, possibly with the exception of
Heinlein's more obviously juvenile outings (Starship Troopers,
The Star Beast, etc.).
On the science fiction subject, go ahead and add some John W,
Campbell, big in the pulps in 40s and 50s and one of the first
really "hard" SF writers.
But the above two titles have more direct connections.
Macdonald's heyday was the era evoked in The Nightfly. TGL isn't
set in the same setting as the song of the same name, but it's
contemporaneous. His stuff is a great complement to Raymond
Chandler's. But fair warning: It's purty dern hard to find - must
be outa print, don't ask me why.
At the same time, some Chandler could be added to the list (my
faves are The Big Sleep and The Long Goodbye, his chef d'oeuvre),
if only for old Ray's incredible powers of description and
muscular dialogue. Both of these elements surface in W&D's
lyrics.
And yo, Nyarly! Doncha think some HP Lovecraft could find its way
in here? I mean, hot-damn, the way the guy could scare the crap
outa ya with what he_didn't_say.... It's like, phn'glui and
stuff, ya know?
Okay, enough folderol. Maybe I can dream up some others.
best,
joe
Duncan Carter
Boy's Life around 1951 or 52. I think BL serialized several other of
Heinlien's juveniles which suggest the possibility that Don and Walt might
have done the same later in the 50s. We all have to start somewhere.
I wonder if we'll see references to Idoru and the other stories by Gibson
and Sterling; they'd seem to be promising material considering the boy's
travels in Japan.
Heavy Weather by Bruce Sterling gives a view of parts of Texas that I like,
having traveled there in the parts away from the cities by bicycle. If you
ever have a chance, see Lost Maples State Park. Nothing to do with SD.
Joe and Diane - we seem to have very similar reading tastes.
"joe_sovacool" <jsovacoo...@charlotteobserver.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:2c812a7f...@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com...
Ethylthefrog
him with some of King Crimson's mid-70s macabre rock ("Starless
And Bible Black", et al). SD doesn't really evoke the "dark
Satanic mills" coined by Blake but made all too real by H.P.
Has anyone mentioned Elmore Leonard, the Quentin Tarantino of
the literary world? His stuff is SD through and through . . .
Do What You Want But Harm None
-----------------------------------------------------------
Duncan Carter
Don and Walt.
Elmore Leonard - good point, Ethyl
joe_sovacool
of an effect outa mere implication. And there's the
sinister, occult side - witness the initial scenes and settings
in The Call of Cthulhu. A direct descendant of the Poe tradition,
and equally as subversive as Eddie-Al.
As to Elmore, shonuff'n yes! Another master of dialogue and, more
to the point, so many of his protagonists are on or over the
edge. Process servers, cons, dopers, and the like. Even in his
westerns!
best,
joe
Mike Smith
message news:2c812a7f...@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com...
> Fun indeed. I'd been chewing on the following two. What the
> hey, might as well throw em out there, along with some other
> recent percolations:
>
> The Goodbye Look, Ross Macdonald.
> Stranger In A Srange Land, Robert A. Heinlein.
>
> Actually, anything by these two, possibly with the exception of
> Heinlein's more obviously juvenile outings (Starship Troopers,
> The Star Beast, etc.).
I wouldn't lump _Starship_Trooper_ in with the "juvies". I mean, yeah, all
the stuff with the powered suits and the Bugs, but that's not the book's
*really* about, anyway. If anything, I'd say _ST_ was the beginning of his
more serious work.
BTW, I'm surprised there isn't any Heller on the list so far - _Catch-22_
(duh), _Something_Happened_, _God_Knows_, etc. Also, it seems to me that
some of Roger Zelazny's work somehow has kind of a Dan-ish "vibe" to it -
_Lord_Of_Light_, _Doorways_In_The_Sand_, _Jack_of_Shadows_, bits and pieces
of the Amber novels, some of the shorts.
--
Mike Smith
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.
-- R. A. Heinlein
Miz Ducky
Delany--most likely DHALGREN, possibly also BABEL-17, NOVA, and
maybe even STARS IN MY POCKET LIKE GRAINS OF SAND. The first
three definitely evoke a decadent/noirish high-literary
perversion of SFnal themes, right in there with an SD mentality
IMO.
Some Philip K. Dick would be kewl too, just for the paranoid
mindfuck of it all. Say, DO ANDROIDS DREAM OF ELECTRIC SHEEP?,
which as many of you know is way different from, and much sicker
than, the movie it inspired (BLADERUNNER).
On the non-SFnal front, how about a little Thomas Pynchon while
we're at it? More warped mind-fuck. Say, like THE CRYING OF LOT
49. Gotta love that Yoyodyne corporate theme song.
Funny, this is turning into a list of my current favorite
authors. :-)
Mam'zelle Daphne Canard
http://www.drizzle.com/~mizducky
"kind of like the opposite of an aerial view ... "
ti bon ange
suggestions to the list I'm keeping in a Word file. If you
listed more than one title, I took the liberty of editing
(although I'm not inclined to decline any entries here--these
are coming from your own feel).
Can I get some actual titles for:
John W, Campbell
HP Lovecraft
Elmore Leonard
.. or do you want to include them on a sublist
titled, "Anything By:"?
I can see the scary sci-fi people are crawling out of that
parallel dimension and stuffing the ballot boxes here. I'm gonna
have to employ a Burroughsian "exterminator" to offset the
weight!
How about some classic literature? (Ulysses) Homer? James Joyce?
The thing that has always stuck out with me is how many
incredibly academic, technical and/or obscure books these guys
have read.
Surely some history books--Mark? A biography of Napoleon?
More! More!
love and kisses
diane
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN Webring
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Duncan Carter
that was not so interesting. The characters weren't the "Process servers,
cons, dopers, and the like" - maybe they were just too nice.
Duncan
dave
goddamn, what a great book. i've read it three times.
on a side note, the last gibson novel in paperback (idoru) mentions "klaus
and the rooster" toward the end. i know gibson peppers his novels with sd
refs, but this one especially made me smile, given my fondness for "here
at the western world"...
Miz Ducky
mention Dr. Gonzo Himself, the inimitable Hunter S. Thompson?
Certainly FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS qualifies. But so would
HELL'S ANGELS and FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ...
um, what the hell year was that? All the U.S. elections since I
can even remember have been fear-and-loathing events for me.
I also think J.D. Salinger's CATCHER IN THE RYE should be in
there somewhere, simply because it's about an alienated suburban
youth who takes a journey down in the bottom in New York
City ... and the kid likes jazz, too (has a whole little
excursus on Ella Fitzgerald).
Mam'zelle Daphne Canard
http://www.drizzle.com/~mizducky
"kind of like the opposite of an aerial view ... "
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Steve_2000
>Has anyone mentioned Elmore Leonard, the Quentin Tarantino of
>the literary world? His stuff is SD through and through . . .
>
Lots of great popular classic novels mentioned, beat stuff, some
things I was assigned to read in H/S and college (and loved).
Things I was told were hip and cool-and were..
Left to my own devices I'm a bit (or a lot) more low-brow and
tend toward Science Fiction and the seedy side of the tracks via
Detective Fiction, hardboiled and otherwise-and offshoots.
Coming at Steely Dan lyrics with this kind of background-hell
they fit right in...
Elmore Leonard reigns el supremo at his particular thing. I
truly believe he could keep cranking out the dialog, low-lifes
and twisty plots forever. And he still writes with a pencil and
paper.
Dropping back a little further for some of the underbelly of
society-loser type things, Jim Thompson was a key early guy who
wrote a bunch of cool pulp stuff-not even detective..just seedy
fringe-ey characters and plots. Hollywood has produced a some of
his novels or short stories (Grifters, Getaway) as movies-as
they have done with some of Leonard's and both MacDonalds.
For updated hardboiled LA detective thrills check out the 'Elvis
Cole' series by Robert Crais. He may be writing about an LA
similar to the one Don and Walt experienced (and wrote about
some) in the 70's. Actually when E. Leonard writes an LA
based 'movie or record biz' novel, it has elements of steely
cynicism-or maybe just Hollywood Reality (oxymoron alert!:)
---------------
Very Influential sci-fi book for me as a kid was
Heinlein's 'Stranger in Strange Land'-he seemed to be at his
peak during that time. It's a quasi religious/philosophical turn
that was a good thing for me to read at the time. But Bob
Heinlein kept going when he'd kinda ran out of fuel (he was very
ill and still regularly releasing things till the end) ...some
of his later work just meanders. The best Heinlien stuff is
good, some very good-he Was a pioneer in the genre and deserves
major credit for that. Have to admit I haven't read any RH in
at least 20 years.
Once I heard Elmore Leonard speak at a book signing and he noted
that a very small percentage of pro-novelists make a decent full-
time living at it. (Elmore does.)
My desert island sci-fi guy is Larry Niven. He's got his own
universe that folks like George Lucas, the Star Trek franchise
and many other sci-fi movie and TV series writers have visited
and borrowed from frequently. His early masterpiece stuff
like "Ringworld" and it's universe was fully realized by the
early 70's. He and Jerry Fournelle have collaborated on some
later masterpieces such as "The Mote In God's Eye" and it's
follow ups.
A lot of career sci-fi guys keep going when they've kinda said
all they have to say, ala Heinlein. But after Larry's initial
huge burst of creativity, he cooled it on the 'regular release'
schedule and used collaborators to help keep things fresh...he
seems retired now. It's ok, like Steely Dan, if he never writes
another word, there's enough good stuff out there to keep you
entertained through reads and re-reads.
I reread the best Niven stuff on a regular (multi-year) schedule
as I do with Chandler's stuff.
David Brin has written some very nice sci-fi novels.
Finally, I have to a non-novel type entity to add to the list.
Very influential for me as a kid. Full of sarcasm-cynicism,
irony and poking holes in American culture and it's various
absurdities every month for several glorious years:
Mad Magazine-the peak 60's-70's years.
Cartoonist Mort Drucker was an absolute god (albeit with help
from the other writers-but ain't that always the way?:)
Warped me but good, and I never looked back.
imo
Steve
Andy Lewis
>At the same time, some Chandler could be added to the list (my faves are
>The Big Sleep and The Long Goodbye, his chef d'oeuvre), if only for old
>Ray's incredible powers of description and muscular dialogue. Both of these
>elements surface in W&D's lyrics.
Yeah, Chandler's writing is an amazing mix of a literary style with action
and dialogue that keeps the plot moving like a good pulp mystery should.
Another element that it has in common with the Dan is its descriptions of
hedonism and seediness in los angeles. Robert Altman's movie version of the
Long Goodbye has been updated to be set in the 70s, making it a good match
with the Gaucho album.
Mike wrote:
>I'm surprised there isn't any Heller on the list so far - _Catch-22_
That's another one that I was going to mention, with its deep (and sometimes
very depressing) cynicism mixed with hilarious absurdism.
Along the same lines in some ways, though with a very different style, is
anything by Franz Kafka: Amerika, The Trial, The Castle, or his shorter works.
For a good understanding of Kid Charlemagne, Tom Wolfe's
Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.
And finally Steve mentioned old-school Mad magazine, to which I must add:
Zippy the Pinhead!
andy
"Yow! Are we having fun yet?"
Steve_2000
Great and unique NYC based PI. Block is a master.
If you like New Orleans and a no-frills look at southern
Louisiana culture... low life in all levels of society-James Lee
Burke's 'Dave Robicheaux' novels are hard hitting with a lot of
atmosphere...
Both authors' lead characters battle their enemies-and their own
demons, examining their different-yet-similar worlds with a
sometimes steely intensity.
Duncan Carter
> If you like New Orleans and a no-frills look at southern
> Louisiana culture... low life in all levels of society-James Lee
> Burke's 'Dave Robicheaux' novels are hard hitting with a lot of
> atmosphere...
Burke's non-Louisiana novels like the ones set in (shudder) Texas are a
must. also. Maybe not much to do with SD but...
Duncan, Louisiana native/escapee
Mike Smith
news:WSmi5.818$GK.2...@news.uswest.net...
I never read that one, but his other
non-"ProcessServersConsDopersAndTheLike" novel, _Cuba_Libre_, was quite
good.
joe_sovacool
from the usual contemporary milieu) since the protag was a
gun-runner.
Dutch Dragon
Since you brought up Nabokov, I would have to add "Lolita" to the list.
It's got it all.
Older man...younger girl.
Incest.
Revenge.
Murder.
Quilty's porno movies(Mr. LaPage would have been a fan).
And most importantly, Nabokov is able to cover all these areas with a
sense of humor, just like Steely Dan would do years later.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve_2000
Darn good at what he does, which is simply write entertaining
tales. He's long had a way with street-type dialog and he tells
a good story.
His first successes came in the 50's when "The Western" was
popular fodder for pop/pulp/paperback writers and also for TV
shows and movies. As he began to get published as a pulp-western
writer, he began developing some of the type of lead anti-hero
characters that would be the center of his later work. He also
developed the knack for writing interesting 'bad guys (or
girls).' And he's never been shy about violence or language.
He wrote a series of westerns- some of which were turned into
screenplays and movies including one of the Paul Newman 'H'
movies of the 60's, "Hombre."
The bottom fell out of the 'western' genre as far as pop fare
during the 1970's. Leonard switched styles to writing
contemporary crime-fiction and/or action with "Mr. Majestyk"
which began a string of hit novels, again many of which were
turned into movies, TV movies etc.
He has enjoyed ever-increasing success with his novels and circa
the late 80's thru today, an Elmore Leonard novel is an
automatic best seller, FWIW. I consider him a top 'paperback
writer,' an expert craftsman who turns out a unique product. Not
an 'artist,' he is an unapologetic entertainer who has caught
America's fancy bigtime over the last 10+ years.
He is realistic about his work going to Hollywood, having seen
some of his novels fail when turned into movies (Burt Reynolds
directing himself in "Stick" in the 80s...ooops.) He just lets
go off the work when the film/TV rights are bought.
The 90's film and TV makers (and audiences) have had better luck
with Elmore's stuff. Seems like after 'Pulp Fiction' came out
and knocked down a few walls...and John Travolta followed up his
comeback success as the slimy, likeable hitman-junkie in that
movie-by starring in Leonard's 'Get Shorty' (a popular movie
about a hustler hitting Hollywood and succeeding in making a
movie about himself hitting Hollywood and succeeding in
making...etc etc)- Hollywood began to "Get Elmore." The movies
they've done from his novels since then have been generally
pretty good.
Every one of his post-'Get Shorty' novels has been made into a
movie, many of the earlier 'crime fiction' era novels well. His
dialog and the characters he draws apparently fairly easily
translate into entertaining movies (in the right hands, with
the right actors etc.) His current writing is in sync with a lot
of what's happening in hip-but-commercial
entertainment...unlikely as it seems for a guy in his 70's.
I just finished 'Be Cool.' Somewhere along the line Elmore began
getting cute with the titles...they often have only a little to
do with the plot. And his plots are ever more circuitous and
clever, even if some of the new characters seem a
little 'familiar' after a close to 30 crime-fiction novels.
'Be Cool' is another Chili Palmer (Get Shorty's lead character)
novel, which was particularly interesting to me. You get
Elmore's view of the workings of the movie business-and
Hollywood-in "Get Shorty." You get his view of the workings of
the Record Business-and Hollywood-in 'Be Cool.'
At the time I was ripping through 'Be Cool,' I was also wading
through a history of LA's development into the pop music
recording capitol of the US, 1950s-90's. Good timing.
Given what I was reading in the non-fiction history of the LA
pop music scene, I could definitely see how the sleazy (and in
Leonard's hands, hilarious) hustling, gangsters and deal cutting
in the music business *could* (easily) take place-as a singer is
promoted into a star in "Be Cool."
\/ ('Be Cool')
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
And, as with 'Get Shorty', 'Be Cool' is about Chili Palmer
needing material for a 'screenplay'(and novel) and taking a
singer through the music business's promo-star making machinery-
and all the various type of low-lifes that hang there-to get the
material for the 'screenplay' which is about Chili needing
material for a screenplay...etc etc...
I can't wait for the movie (and soundtrack:).
Steve
Duncan Carter
anything by the late Ross Thomas.
Duncan
ga...@garyt.force9.co.uk
interview in "The Independent".
"...later on, a conversation about another track, "West of Hollywood",
finds Fagen coining the term "DeLillean" to describe the song's
apocalyptic undertow".
I have only ever read "Underworld" by Don DeLillo, and that does have
rather an "apocalytic undertow".
I heartily agree with "A Confederacy of Dunces" which I re-read
recently and recommend as a very good read.
joe_sovacool
got sucked into my fave indy bookstore, picked up Burke's
"Burning Angel.' My first taste of his stuff. So far, I find it
mighty yummy.
best,
joe
Greg
Willard and His Bowling Trophies, The Hawkline Monster:A Gothic Western, and
more...
He had the ability to write in various genres, avoiding cliche and
contructing wonderful original work - sound familiar?
Greg
Duncan Carter
book stores, my visa card starts to smoke. Fortunately, Boulder Country has
some really good public libraries and has most of the books that I haven't
read plus pretty good CD collections also. It listed Kind of Blue as being
out and not checked back in for over a year so I had to buy it.
I've tried to collect all these recommendations in a list and posted it on
my company web site at:
http://www.vibrotek.com/book_list.htm
The notes of MAIN, ALL, GRB refer to library branches that list specific
books that I haven't read that I looked up. One good thing about this
library system is that you can reserve or order book on-line from the
libraries including libraries in other counties for $0.50 per book collected
as ovedue fines. Sixty year old seniors get the fines waived; I'm 59 years,
8 months and counting :-)). The libraries all have web access so I don't
need to remember to bring a paper copy of my list either.
Joe, please send me your real email address via email. I didn't manage to
decipher yours on four attempts.
"joe_sovacool" <jsovacoo...@charlotteobserver.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:07a0b080...@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com...
joe_sovacool
store without having someone along to hold my wallet! Luckily,
the only plastic I "do" is my ATM card.
In a way, it's worse for me with libraries, especially big ones -
Once I go in, I might never emerge again! Either way, I try to
plan the trip so that it's on the way to an appointment I can't
be (too) late for.
In this case, on Friday, I wanted some Indian vittles, just to
haul back to my desk, and hadn't planned on being away too long.
But when I got nearby both the restaurant and the bookseller, I
realized I'd just finished a novel that morning, and had a head
fulla titles and authors from this thread. Hence I was sucked
(as briefly as possible) into the vortex.
So it's all Diane's fault ;> OOps, did I say that?
If I'm gonna go seeking retail, it's to get something that I'll
want to have that will likely be worth at least one more read, or
sharing, or both.
But hey, here on Remarq I couldn't e-mail you directly, and
Remarq spam-shields it's users' addresses. I'm
Michael Feagans
Homer-who wrote that tired sea song?
James Joyce
The Flashman series-all of them
Faulkner-The Sound and The Fury
Salinger-all of it
Ken Kesey-One Flew over the Cuckoos Nest
Hemingway ?
Michael
Andy Lewis
From the blurb on the back of my copy: "To Hollywood comes Tod Hackett...
around him he sees the great mass of inland Americans who have retired to
California in expectation of health and ease. But boredom consumes them,
their own emptiness maddens them; they search out any abnormality in their
lust for excitement - drugs, perversion, crime. In the end only blood will
serve; unreasoned, undirected violence. The day of the locust is at hand..."
Pretty similar to what the Dan was writing about 40 years later, no?
(Note also the title's similarity with a line in "Your Gold Teeth.")
andy
Dave Moore
that's Patrick Hamilton (1904-1962). It was he who wrote the play "Gaslight"
that appears to have inspired the first track on 2vN. Hamilton's other
play, "Rope" was filmed by Hitchcock. But his novels should interest SD
enthusiasts, because their subject matter could almost be a collection of SD
lyrics, dealing with sleazy relationships, obsessions, cruelty, perversity,
wasted dreams and lost desires.
"Hangover Square" is an excellent place to start, and then perhaps the
trilogy "Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky". But the most SD-familiar
character is Ernest Ralph Gorse who features in his own trilogy of books:
"The West Pier", "Mr Stimpson & Mr Gorse" and "Unknown Assailant". Gorse is
a sexual adventurer and ruthless opportunist -- a perverse and malicious
genius who preys on young women. He could almost be the protagonist in
"Janie Runaway".
Oh, and there's another (very) tenuous link with SD. Patrick Hamilton was a
alcoholic who sought a cure for his addiction from Dr John Dent, the same
person that William Burroughs (the inventor of the term SD) went to for his
heroin cure -- they may have met in the waiting room -- they would not have
got along.
Dave
oleander
this on the Digest, as I am a denizen there and on the GB, but an
infrequent visitor here. Shout-outs (shouts-out?) to the good
Dr. [eyebrows] and the Ducky too.
There are a couple of ways this can be approached--rigorously,
listing only those works which can be traced directly to the Dan
oeuvre; or loosely, tossing in everything WE think expresses the
way of Dan. Well, they don't call it rigor mortis for nothing.
I am SO glad you brought up West. I think he nails dissolute
LAness. "The Day of the Locust" is completely wasted on high
school or frosh English students, which is how most of us know
it. If you haven't read it since then, go back. You'll be glad
you did. And while you're at it read "Miss Lonelyhearts."
There's a beautiful Library of America collection of West's
works.
And Homer--the recent Robert Fagles translation of "The Odyssey"
is just gorgeous.
Re Gibson--"Neuromancer" started it all, and I agree that that
whole series is a must. All of them have Steely refs, (so
does "Virtual Light") and I submit that the whole Lo/ Rez concept
in "Idoru" is our guys (except for the glaring discrepancy in
their musical output!). His stories are spectacular too--see
"Burning Chrome."
And re Pynchon--a big yes on him, too. "Gravity's Rainbow," for
sure.
Speaking of big books, like IJ (second that emotion!) & GR,
second "Ulysses" and "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man."
Def "Stranger In A Strange Land"--deafeningly pontificating, but
worth it for coinage of "grok."
Jazz bios--"Straight No Chaser," a Monk bio (duh) by Gourse, and
"Dance of the Infidels," a bio of Monk's pal, Bud Powell, by
Paudras. Some of these bios are to me not terribly well-written,
but make up for it with details of the hard times of the jazz
life.
A lot of Richard Brautigan's stuff is still in print, at least in
collections. In the early '70's, I gave away more copies of
"Trout Fishing In America" than I could count. Check out the 2vN
Darkroom for a ref to this book. And "IGY" reminds me of "All
Watched Over By Machines Of Loving Grace."
Other things that just say Steely to me:
"The Stars My Destination," Alfred Bester--Gully Foyle is a
Steely archetype. This is a great story that has held up for
nearly half a century. And if you think Harvey Keitel looked
good in "The Piano" in his Maori warrior marks, hey--Gully was
there first.
"The World of Null-A," AE Van Vogt. I don't know; it just does.
Lewis Carroll--poems and the "Alice" books. See "The Mock Turtle
Song." Not just for kids.
Philip Roth--start with "Portnoy's Complaint," or better,
"Goodbye Columbus."
I dunno, but "Lucky Henry" has a Bukowskian feel to me.
Oh, and re: Huysmans: go immediately to
www.steerpike.net/steelydan, where BTB has put up "Against Nature
" in its entirety.
Post-apocalypse dept.: "On The Beach," Nevil Shute; "A Canticle
for Leibowitz," Miller; "The Postman," David Brin.
Tomorrow's Girls Dept.: "The Female Man," Russ, and "The Left
Hand of Darkness," LeGuin.
And while we're stretching, someone suggested Blake as a possible
inspiration for "Rose Darling":
The Sick Rose
O Rose, thou art sick!
The invisible worm
That flies in the night,
In the howling storm,
Has found out thy bed
Of crimson joy,
And his dark secret love
Does thy life destroy.
William Blake (1757 - 1827)
And while we're REALLY stretching, the Bible. No, don't start
scrolling, please--I have this thing about "Show Biz Kids" and it
being "Lot's Wages"--oh never mind.
"The Fifties," David Halberstam--background reading for "The
Nightfly."
And also on the Nightfly tip, "The Ugly American," Burdick, and
"Heart of Darkness," Conrad, for a little amplification of "The
Goodbye Look."
"Confessions," St. Augustine.
The "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders,
Fourth Edition" (DSM-IV), American Psychiatric Association. You
can find a lot of the characters in Steely songs in this book.
It is also a great treatment for insomnia.
Agreely MADly about MAD! I'd add the works of R. Crumb (and if
you haven't seen the brilliant bio "Crumb," it's a must.).
Oowee. Great thread. Can't wait to get my syllabus and start
the semester.
ti bon ange
focus a bit more on ancient literature and the
writers/philosophers who existed long before the 20th century.
And you're right about the two distinctions; that's what I asked
for originally, but neglected to mention in the Dandom Digest.
It's fun to guess at books these guys read (although they read
some pretty obscure stuff, according to what I've seen in
interviews). But the great books that existed before they each
began writing lyrics in the 1960s... that's what really
interests me. What do we find, in veiled references, in their
lyrics? How might that relate to a "classical" reading list?
Did they take notes off the walls of the Caves of Altamira? Have
they ever met Napoleon, or studied his life (and his silk
underwear)? Did the life story of Charlemagne figure into the
title they assigned their Owsley figure? And have they dreamed
of St. Augustine?
We have a pretty good list going so far. I've been keeping track
of it, as has Duncan (who posted a link to a webpage where he's
stored virtually every suggestion to date). But there is much
More To Come...
love and kisses
diane
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN Webring
http://hometown.aol.com/jackofdays/steelytours.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mike Smith
news:0c6d386f...@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com...
> making...etc etc)- Hollywood began to "Get Elmore." The movies
> they've done from his novels since then have been generally
> pretty good.
Except for "Rum Punch" - cough, excuse me, "Jackie Brown". Pee-yew.
Tarantino at his egotistical, self-indulgent worst.
> Every one of his post-'Get Shorty' novels has been made into a
> movie
They have? What about "Pronto", "Be Cool", and "Cuba Libre"? And what
about "Touch"? Didn't they all come out after "Get Shorty"?
DrJ
here's the toss-up:
Kurt Vonnegut has been categorized as taking sugar pills and putting a
bitter coating on them.
This, if i can make out the category through all these medications
i'm on [see The "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders,
Fourth Edition" (DSM-IV), American Psychiatric Association pp. 167-219,
ibid pp344-351,
ibid pp. 775-1922, ibid oh never mind, wait for the Fifth Edition. I'm
chapter 12] makes him
a stoic pessimist. If the Steely Dan 101 reading list were to
simultaneously define its antithesis
in the Hegelian sense, what book would be at the top of the list?
my answer: Jitterbug Perfume, Tom Robbins.
well, that's what the guy next to me had. shhhhh.....
David
ti bon ange
ti bon ange
there. Anyway, there ain't no steely dan stuff at that link you
posted--must have been a BUM STEER, bubele!
Now I see it's Bradly... hey, how ya doin', brad?
please to resend the link, please.
Steve_2000
>"Steve_2000" <steve_200...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote in
message
>news:0c6d386f...@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com...
>
>> making...etc etc)- Hollywood began to "Get Elmore." The
movies
>> they've done from his novels since then have been generally
>> pretty good.
>
>Except for "Rum Punch" - cough, excuse me, "Jackie Brown". Pee-
yew.
>Tarantino at his egotistical, self-indulgent worst.
Actually, I enjoyed Jackie Brown. I happened on it after the
opening credits and didn't realize it was Elmore Leonard ('Rum
Punch' re-titled) until I recognized the plot. Later I found out
it was a Quentin Tarantino effort. Surprised me. I thought it
was a decent 'TV-movie' type thing. Certainly not 'Res. Dogs'
or 'Pulp Fiction.' Seems like QT has dried up after Pulp Fiction
(whatever..).
With so much of Elmore's stuff having been made into movies/tv
movies, sometimes successfully, sometimes not...I don't hold any
expectations for the screen stuff. A few of the pre-Get Shorty
things completely miss the EL feel. I just view em with an 'if
it's good, fine. If not, change the channel' attitude.
>
>> Every one of his post-'Get Shorty' novels has been made into a
>> movie
>
>They have? What about "Pronto", "Be Cool", and "Cuba Libre"?
And what
>about "Touch"? Didn't they all come out after "Get Shorty"?
>
>--
>Mike Smith
>
IIRC, 'Pronto' is a movie (could be 'made for TV). 'Touch' was
several books before Get Shorty and is at least a TV movie
(haven't seen it).
I am remiss on 'Cuba Libre'- I missed the book (actually thought
it was from his earlier period) and don't believe it has been
made into a movie. Last year's Get Shorty sequel 'Be Cool' came
out in paperback this year. It has not been made into a movie-
yet:)-per the end of my original post.
Steve
jrdu...@iupui.edu
Congratulations to Ti Bon for dragging me out of my customary
cave of lurk!
Has anybody mentioned Jay McInerney? Aside from the obvious connection
with the soundtrack to "Bright Lights, Big City," I've always felt a
pretty strong connection between the Dan and the New York fiction of
McInerney. The books are characterized by the glitzy life of New York
high-rollers on the surface with a strong current of personal loss. Oh
yeah, and don't overlook the use of drug abuse as a catalyst for conflict.
"Bright Lights, Big City" is a good example of this, but I prefer "The
Last of the Savages" which has a measure of the music business to add to
the pot.
If you're looking for something similar, but with a left-coast bent, check
out Bret Ellis' "Less Than Zero." I tend to think of Ellis as a
lightweight version of McInerney. Then again, I have friends who
consider McInerney to be Salinger-light!
Oh. And yes, I realize that two out of three of these suggestions have
been made into films of questionable merit. Please don't hold it against
me, I just like the books.
Jay Duncan
oleander
link down, which is a shame, since 1) it deprives us all of
a source for Huysmans, and 2) worse, it deprives us of his
meritorious comments on the Dan. However, I'll be putting
up the latter on fever dreams in the near future.
DrJ--That's a lot of territory, boy. You axised for it.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Duncan Carter
Against the Grain (Au Rebours) at:
http://www.eldritchpress.org/jkh/rebours.html
ti bon ange
> There is an on-line public domain version of Huysman's
> Against the Grain (Au Rebours) at:
>
> http://www.eldritchpress.org/jkh/rebours.html
Great catch, Duncan. I'm going to TRY to wade through it!
Since most "classic" literature fell into the public domain long ago,
there are many online repositories for entire books and novels.
Probably chief among these is The Gutenberg Project, which I think
you'll find at http://www.gutenberg.org or .com or something (I'm too
lazy to go and look meself). Anyway, it's easy to find, and as I
recall, they are always looking for people who are willing to
transcribe p.d. texts to add to their impressive database.
love and kisses
diane
--
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN webring!
http://members.aol.com/jackofdays/steelytours.htm
Duncan Carter
oleander
bad addition to the syllabus....
oleander
ti bon ange
> With that in mind does anyone have a favourite writer for similar
> reasons? My favourite is Tom Robbins, who is a genius wordsmith.
> If this subject is not suitable for this forum please excuse me
> and if anyone wishes to discuss this privately please feel free to
> write.
> Cheers!
> Sëando
Seando, I believe your query is probably very appropriate for this
thread. Duncan, do we have Tom Robbins entries yet?
Anyway, check back to see what people have said so far. I think a lot
of the responses come from personal writing favorites.
Some of my favorites include E.B. White, Jack Kerouac, Jay McInerney
and Yasunari Kawabata. But I have millions of others I love.
love and kisses
diane
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Duncan Carter
http://www.vibrotek.com/book_list.htm
Ken Laurent
ti bon ange <membabe...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:26b17926...@usw-ex0106-044.remarq.com...
> OzMagicman wrote:
>
> > With that in mind does anyone have a favourite writer for similar
> > reasons? My favourite is Tom Robbins, who is a genius wordsmith.
>
> > If this subject is not suitable for this forum please excuse me
> > and if anyone wishes to discuss this privately please feel free to
> > write.
> > Cheers!
> > Sëando
>
> Seando, I believe your query is probably very appropriate for this
> thread. Duncan, do we have Tom Robbins entries yet?
>
> Anyway, check back to see what people have said so far. I think a lot
> of the responses come from personal writing favorites.
>
> Some of my favorites include E.B. White, Jack Kerouac, Jay McInerney
> and Yasunari Kawabata. But I have millions of others I love.
>
> love and kisses
> diane
>
Joseph Heller's brand of cynicism and irony fits in well with SD.
Ken
Duncan Carter
> Ken
Something_Happened, God Knows
http://www.vibrotek.com/book_list.htm
Duncan