Green Earring guitar effect
LLan...@yahoo.com
out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is going on
there, and who is taking that solo?
Lawrence
--
"Yeah yeah yeah"
- The Beatles
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
steve...@my-dejanews.com
LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
> At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates some spaced
> out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is going on
> there, and who is taking that solo?
>
> Lawrence
That was the late lamented Bi-Phase Shifter (I Know what you're thinking, so
knock it off.) It was a device that combined 2 or more phase shifters (a
'pre'- electronic chorus device) with the instrument signal at something like
180 degrees opposite from the other shifter(s) in the unit, and came up with
that gurgly, hic-up, leaving the planet sound. The guitar riffs played on
that part of the solo were perfect to get the most from the effect. Stuttered
hammer ons, kinda like a bug, then just up and away at the song's fade.
As the FX pedal market began booming in the 70's, it seemed like there were
more ideas for pedals than there was technology at first. EVERYONE had a phase
shifter-they were the most popular pedal in the early 70's- besides the
venerable wah wah and whatever crude fuzz boxes were around from the 60's.
They were also the first 'time based' totally electronic effect. So the Bi-
Phase seemed like a good idea with the crude analog technology at the time.
Unfortunately, the Bi-Phase only did a couple of very distinctive things
(like you heard in Green Earrings) and were big and expensive. You could use
a sublte effects like phase shifters all nite long, but you could only use
that Bi-Phase for a climactic moment. It was dramatic but limited.
Soon after it's introduction, the technology became available to produce true
digital time based delays, choruses, and flangers. The Bi-Phasers had never
really caught on (except for rich session players, who Had to have every
gimmick). They quickly died as did the popular phase shifter, which all of a
sudden sounded dated, compared to the chorus units.
There has been a bit of a nostalgic revival of phase shifters, as you
immediately think 70's when you hear one and they can still be had new today.
I don't think we'll be seeing too many Bi-Phasers tho. There weren't many
made and never had much of an impact. I think the best example (maybe the
Only example) of one being used on a popular recording was the end of the
Green Earrings solo. Very cool there. Worth $300 1975 dollars for that one
effect? No way for most guitarists.
I don't have credits in front of me, but I'm guessing Dean Parks or Jay
Graydon on that solo. IMOHO Steve
LLan...@yahoo.com
around the issue...
Lawrence
In article <75nbt7$iq0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
--
steve...@my-dejanews.com
LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm looking for something a little more in depth, so please stop skirting
> around the issue...
>
> Lawrence
Sorry Lawrence, that's all my publisher will let me excerpt for free. To get
the Full Lowdown, you'll have to buy the whole book-tentative title: "It
Looked Good On Paper-Dead FX for Guitar and Bass." Publishing date TBA. The
editor is being picky about actual substantiation. The guy has no
imagination. Merry Christmas Steve
> In article <75nbt7$iq0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > In article <75m1qb$esd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates some
> spaced
> > > out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is
going
> on
> > > there, and who is taking that solo?
> > >
> > > Lawrence
> >
> > That was the late lamented Bi-Phase Shifter (I Know what you're thinking, so
> > knock it off.) It was a device that combined 2 or more phase shifters (a
> > 'pre'- electronic chorus device) with the instrument signal at something
like
> > 180 degrees opposite
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
LLan...@yahoo.com
Merry Christmas to you too, and seriously, thanks for the info. That's what I
love about this newsgroup...knowledgable people carrying on intellegent, witty
conversations. I guess that reflects on the music itself, eh?
Are there any guitar players that hang around on here? Most of you speak as
though you were musicians. If there are, what songs have you learned/tried to
learn? How about solos? Any songs or solos that you'd recommend beginning
with? I would imagine that learning a bunch of SD guitar solos note for note
would really help you to develop your phrasing.
Lawrence
In article <75p1r7$vam$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
--
"Yeah yeah yeah"
- The Beatles
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
steve...@my-dejanews.com
LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
> BWAAHAHAHAHA!!!
>
> Merry Christmas to you too, and seriously, thanks for the info. That's what I
> love about this newsgroup...knowledgable people carrying on intellegent, witty
> conversations. I guess that reflects on the music itself, eh?
>
> Are there any guitar players that hang around on here? Most of you speak as
> though you were musicians. If there are, what songs have you learned/tried to
> learn? How about solos? Any songs or solos that you'd recommend beginning
> with? I would imagine that learning a bunch of SD guitar solos note for note
> would really help you to develop your phrasing.
>
> Lawrence
>
phrasing and taste, he's a walking guitar lesson. Check out his solo stuff as
well. I'm sure many fans have favorite Steely Dan guitar solo's from Larry or
any of the various great players they used. For phrasing I'd nail Kid
Charlemaigne, for a *perfect* solo (still) Jeff Baxters break in Rikki still
does it for me.
There is so much good guitar on the SD recordings. Walter Becker's strong suit
on guitar is his unique phrasing. I dunno, there aren't any 'bad' solo's, only
very good and excellent. Pick one within your ability and go for it.
The reason I mentioned Kid C. is that Larry uses some BB King/Eric Clapton
style licks and makes them his own through his note choice, taste, phrasing
(and energy). Most of the licks are in the vocabulary of a decent rock player,
so it's a natural place to start.
IMOHO
Steve
Fred Amendola
and Elliott Randall (second half, and ending that you speak of)
Fred
LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
> At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates some spaced
> out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is going on
> there, and who is taking that solo?
>
> Lawrence
>
> --
Fred Amendola
Fred Amendola
Fred Amendola
Jackofdays
posting was timed with an interview I heard with one of the members of the Los
Angeles Guitar Quartet (? I'm not sure if that's the right name) where he
shared an interesting guitar effect I have since tried out.
He said he'd gotten some of those plastic tabs used to keep plastic bags closed
and had cut them into small discs, maybe 3/16" across. Then he punched a hole
in the center of each disc and cut a line from the edge to the hole in the
center, and snapped this piece of plastic onto a string (I assume between the
sound hole and the neck on an acoustic guitar like mine).
Once you have the six discs in place on the strings, start picking. The sound
is unreal and incredible. The discs spin around from the vibration of the
strings and feed something back into the whole sound.
He went a little farther with the effect by attaching small brass bells (like
the tiny bells worn in bracelets by belly dancers) to the discs and then
finger-picking with the bells and plastic discs attached. Again, incredible.
You could do the same thing using buttons, threading the open end of the string
through the buttonhole before winding it on and tuning it up From the other
hole in the button (asuming you have a button with two holes in it) you could
hang any one of a variety of other sound-altering items.
Anyway, it's fun stuff to goof around with on a cold winter night.
Hints from Heloise (get down, get FUNKY)...
diane
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sam rose
mja...@erols.com
second solo and the Coda solo.
Hope this helps.
mj.
On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:20:32 -0500, Fred Amendola <fre...@ibm.net> wrote:
: "Steely Dan Gold" lists Larry Carlton (the first half, the jazz solo, I presume);
: and Elliott Randall (second half, and ending that you speak of)
: Fred
:
mja...@erols.com
btw, I love your back-and-forth with Steve. Thanks for the good humor.
I'm a guitar player (23 years and counting: I'm now 36.). I can recommend that you
not start with SD tunes, even the solos. Get your scales, modes, chops and chords
together before you try; they're simply too modal and use such difficult chord
voicings for the beginning guitarist that I can't recommend starting with SD.
Once you feel comfortable with 13th, 11th, 7#9, maj7, min9, chords and you know
mixolidian, lydian, dorian modes, give SD a good try. The most fun solo (IMHO) has
to be Reeling In the Years. It's immediately recognizable by just about anyone over
the age of 12, and all will come over just to see you playing it. After that, I
recommend Josie -- it's relatively short but immensely gratifying.
Check out a book by Hal Leonard called "The Best of Steely Dan" and is the "recorded
version for guitar," meaning that it is just about a note-by-note transcription of
these tunes in tablature. It doesn't have the entire Aja album but has some
wonderful SD tunes.
Be prepared to have your mind warped by the chord voicings -- even a standard major
chords may not the fingerings you expect. For example, on "Don't Take Me Alive," the
song begins with an Eb F Cm7 F Eb F G F G Fm(add9). The Eb voicing is like this:
EADGBE
xx x
-------------
-------------
-------------
-------*-----
---------*---
-----*-------
312
Just the way I'd play it too! Anyway, I love the where the discipline of learning
this music has brought my own playing and how my own confidence has grown. Let the
NG know how you're doing, ok?
fwiw, I just finished with Josie, Deacon Blues (god, I love that song!), Kid
Charlemagne and I'm working on Hey Nineteen. It's like a drug -- I think of these
songs in my sleep while I'm working on them.
Hope this helps. Best wishes on your forthcoming sleepless nights!
Mark
On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:01:42 GMT, LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
: BWAAHAHAHAHA!!!
:
: Merry Christmas to you too, and seriously, thanks for the info. That's what I
: love about this newsgroup...knowledgable people carrying on intellegent, witty
: conversations. I guess that reflects on the music itself, eh?
:
: Are there any guitar players that hang around on here? Most of you speak as
: though you were musicians. If there are, what songs have you learned/tried to
: learn? How about solos? Any songs or solos that you'd recommend beginning
: with? I would imagine that learning a bunch of SD guitar solos note for note
: would really help you to develop your phrasing.
:
: Lawrence
:
: In article <75p1r7$vam$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
: steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: > In article <75o8uh$9f5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
: > LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
: > > I'm looking for something a little more in depth, so please stop skirting
: > > around the issue...
: > >
: > > Lawrence
: >
: > Sorry Lawrence, that's all my publisher will let me excerpt for free. To get
: > the Full Lowdown, you'll have to buy the whole book-tentative title: "It
: > Looked Good On Paper-Dead FX for Guitar and Bass." Publishing date TBA. The
: > editor is being picky about actual substantiation. The guy has no
: > imagination. Merry Christmas Steve
: >
: > > In article <75nbt7$iq0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
: > > steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: > > > In article <75m1qb$esd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
: > > > LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
: > > > > At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates some
: > > spaced
: > > > > out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is
: > going
: > > on
: > > > > there, and who is taking that solo?
: > > > >
: > > > > Lawrence
: > > >
: > > > That was the late lamented Bi-Phase Shifter (I Know what you're thinking,
: so
: > > > knock it off.) It was a device that combined 2 or more phase shifters (a
: > > > 'pre'- electronic chorus device) with the instrument signal at something
: > like
: > > > 180 degrees opposite
: > >
: >
ikr
news:368fd05a....@news.erols.com...
>In my sheet music, it lists Denny Dias as the first solo and Elliot Randall
with >the second solo and the Coda solo.
I doubt that, as far as I'm aware, Dias didn't play at all on Royal Scam.
>On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:20:32 -0500, Fred Amendola <fre...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
>: "Steely Dan Gold" lists Larry Carlton (the first half, the jazz solo, I
presume);
>: and Elliott Randall (second half, and ending that you speak of)
>: Fred
>:
>: LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
>:
>: > At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates some
spaced
>: > out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is
going on
>: > there, and who is taking that solo?
>: >
>: > Lawrence
>: >
>: > --
>: > "Yeah yeah yeah"
>: > - The Beatles
>: >
Alfred E. Neuman
ikr wrote in message <368f7...@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
>I doubt that, as far as I'm aware, Dias didn't play at all on Royal Scam.
He does on my copy.
Kind Regards,
Alfred Neuman
LLan...@yahoo.com
mja...@erols.com wrote:
> Lawrence,
>
> btw, I love your back-and-forth with Steve. Thanks for the good humor.
>
> I'm a guitar player (23 years and counting: I'm now 36.). I can recommend
that you
> not start with SD tunes, even the solos. Get your scales, modes, chops and
chords
> together before you try; they're simply too modal and use such difficult chord
> voicings for the beginning guitarist that I can't recommend starting with SD.
>
> Once you feel comfortable with 13th, 11th, 7#9, maj7, min9, chords and you
know
> mixolidian, lydian, dorian modes, give SD a good try. The most fun solo
(IMHO) has
> to be Reeling In the Years. It's immediately recognizable by just about
anyone over
> the age of 12, and all will come over just to see you playing it. After that,
I
> recommend Josie -- it's relatively short but immensely gratifying.
>
I've been playing for 9 years (I'm 23 now), and I can play rock well, but my
main passion is jazz. I've recently started lessons with a Baltimore-based
jazz guitarist named Carl Filipiak. Carl has recorded with Dennis Chambers,
so I guess I have somewhat of a Steely Dan connection!
Anyway, those chords that you mentioned and the mixolydian, lydian and dorian
modes are exactly what I've been concentrating on. I've got those chords
down pretty well, but I'm sure the Hal Leonard book would expedite things a
bit. My plan is to first become fairly competent at playing jazz, and then
apply my jazz knowledge in a more open context (rock, funk, R&B, etc.) But
in the meanwhile, maybe I will start trying to figure out some SD stuff. I
haven't really tried--it's more fun to give a concentrated listen to SD than
it is to play along. Maybe that will change. Actually, I did learn the
intro and solos to Reelin' in the Years note for note a couple months ago in
an effort to brush up on my phrasing, and because it's so damn catchy! That
whole guitar intro is absolutely brilliant!
What I'm doing now is just trying to learn songs out of the Real Book, Vol.
5, and taking my questions to Carl. He usually sees the concept that I'm
struggling to grasp and will teach accordingly. I've learned many standards
and favorites, such as Take the A Train, Jump Monk, Straight No Chaser, All
the Things You Are, Naima, Take Five, and a few others. I'm giving myself
about 5 to 10 years to become competent, and I'm sure that SD will still
sound just as fresh then. Perhaps they'll consider releasing the new album
by then...
Anyway, what do some of the other git players think about learning the SD
repertoire?
Lawrence
> : > > > LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
> : > > > > At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates
some
> : > > spaced
> : > > > > out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what
is
> : > going
> : > > on
> : > > > > there, and who is taking that solo?
> : > > > >
> : > > > > Lawrence
> : > > >
> : > > > That was the late lamented Bi-Phase Shifter (I Know what you're
thinking,
> : so
> : > > > knock it off.) It was a device that combined 2 or more phase shifters
(a
> : > > > 'pre'- electronic chorus device) with the instrument signal at
something
> : > like
> : > > > 180 degrees opposite
> : > >
> : >
Rob
>LLan...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>At the end of Green Earring, the guitar solo suddenly incorporates some spaced
>>out effect, kind of like a mutated flanger. Does anyone know what is going on
>>there, and who is taking that solo?
>>
>>Lawrence
>>
>>"Yeah yeah yeah"
>>- The Beatles
>>
I think it is a Voocoder or envelope filter or a combo of both...
The Mitochondrion
LLan...@yahoo.com writes:
> [snip]
> Anyway, what do some of the other git players think about learning the SD
> repertoire?
I had had a guitar for many years, but really never practiced it very
much at all. (I learned the opening to Stairway to Heaven once.)
Being a self-hounding perfectionist, I always got frustrated with any
mistake and didn't enjoy it.
I got Steely Dan Complete about a year ago. It was such a thrill to
hear myself making the chords that supported all the melodies I had
been humming for so long that I was immediately hooked. I stopped
worrying about getting everything right. I started caring more about
hitting the rhythm with my right hand than getting my fingers in the
right places on the strings with my left -- with the result that my
left hand, left alone for a change, figured everything out on its
own. I'm still not any good at all compared to a real player, but I
really enjoy it now.
I've learned so many useful chords that I can write songs like I
always wanted, too.
So it's been downright EDUCATIONAL.
Greg
steve...@my-dejanews.com
Mu-tron Biphase, I'm tellin ya. I heard one of the thousand or so they made
before they realized no one but rich studio guys were gonna buy the one trick
(Ok-one and a half trick pony-it did normal phasing too) for at least a couple
hundred (or more) mid 1970's dollars.
There's no vocorder articulation or envelope wah or reverse wah going on
there. For a good vocorder example listen to the intro to "Let's Groove
Tonite" by EWF. For a good envelope filter (in the auto-wah mode) listen to
Stevie Wonder playing 2 overdubbed clavinets through one for the main riff in
"Higher Ground." IMO Steve