Reelin' In The Years and J S Bach......
Marc Ziegenhagen
I never noticed that quote before (maybe someone else knows what/where it
is?), but I *do* feel that the last phrase of the guitar solo during the
break before it goes back to the I chord is a quote from the jazz standard
"Don't Get Around Much Anymore", quoting the opening phrase for "missed
the Saturday dance" (or is it Mr. Saturday dance?).
Anyone else ever notice that?
MZ
--
Email: substitute "dude" for "nospam".
ti bon ange
>I've been reading this ng for a while and it seems to be
>populated by knowledgeable and friendly folk so here goes with
>what may be an embarrassingly stupid question.
That's a really great question Stephen, and as one of the
friendly (and on rare lucky occasions, knowledgeable) folk here,
I have to admit I have no idea what you're talking about!
Since I can't give a productive answer to your question (did you
get ahold of some particularly FINE Colombian right around then?
You don't recall? Ahhhhh.... there's your answer...), I'll raise
you another question!
There's a live performance--I can't remember which one right
now --but after the guitar solo, as the song is winding out, you
can hear the guitar player (I think it's Skunk or Denny) playing
the melody from "If I Only Had a Brain."
Your mission--should you choose to accept it--is to figure out
which song and guitar player this is.
I could try to listen to everything, but I'm far too lazy. If I
only had the motivation...
love and kisses
diane
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Mam'zelle Canard
news:8brdsi$5kq$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Many years ago (197-something-or-other) a schoolfriend introduced me to
> Steely Dan, and played among other things a recording of Reelin' In The
> Years which included in the guitar solo a quote from Bach's Jesu Joy Of
> Man's Desiring
> But, having recently bought the CD very-best-of compilation, there is no
> sign of Bach on RITY. Soupir. Possibilities include:
> - There are different versions, and I have got the wrong (or let's say
> different) one;
> - It wasn't RITY at all but another track;
> - I was seriously mistaken (well, it was the 1970s)
Hi Stephen--
IMO, I think it's actually choice 3a--you're kind of semi-mistaken. I'm way
familiar with both Reeling in the Years and Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring. In
RITY as originally recorded on Can't Buy A Thrill (and a few times since,
including your best-of collection), there is a prominent hunk of tune that
makes up the instrumental break, played on guitar(s), that is heavy on
triplets (I think in when the Dan played that live, Denny and Skunk would
play it at top speed in a sort of "dueling guitars" unison). The triplets
would make it *reminiscent* of the majorly triplet-heavy "Jesu...". In fact,
I always thought that passage in RITY sounded sort of Bach-ish. However, its
jazzy chord progression to me never had any relationship to "Jesu...". So to
summarize ... I conclude that you and your friend were close, but no seegar.
Although, perhaps, a mighty spliff like the one y'all might have been
smoking when you noticed this similarity back in the 1970s? :-)
/the Mam'zelle
trying as always to be helpful
--
Mam'zelle Canard
http://www.drizzle.com/~mizducky
"Then the room turns bright/And fills up with light ..."
Kathryn Ballard
"Reelin'" both use G (major and major 7, respectively )for two measures and
then move to A. That's pretty much where the similarity ends as far as I
can tell.
(Geeky sidebar: although "Reelin'" is in 'pitched' in A throughout, the
chorus employs the flat-7 - and adds the major 7th. Gawd, I love these
guys. One could argue that their influence was Bach, but then again, so was
everyone else who ever attended music school!) [End sidebar]
Yours,
Kathryn Ballard
Mam'zelle Canard <mizducky@drizzle dot com> wrote in message
news:se31aho...@corp.supernews.com...
Stephen
I've been reading this ng for a while and it seems to be populated by
knowledgeable and friendly folk so here goes with what may be an
embarrassingly stupid question.
Many years ago (197-something-or-other) a schoolfriend introduced me to
Steely Dan, and played among other things a recording of Reelin' In The
Years which included in the guitar solo a quote from Bach's Jesu Joy Of
Man's Desiring (if you listen to the playout you can work out where it would
go – or at least, I can). I remember both of us agreeing how well it fitted
with the chord progression, how unlikely it was as a component of a rock
guitar solo, how incredibly sophisticated we were to have spotted it (tho it
was dead obvious) and all the sorts of things you say when you are 17 and
listening to seriously grown-up rock music for the first time.
But, having recently bought the CD very-best-of compilation, there is no
sign of Bach on RITY. Soupir. Possibilities include:
- There are different versions, and I have got the wrong (or let's say
different) one;
- It wasn't RITY at all but another track;
- I was seriously mistaken (well, it was the 1970s)
Grateful to be put out of misery.
Stephen
Chris R
"Kathryn Ballard" <annede...@xana.net> wrote:
> Hm, the only relationship I can find is that "Jesu" and the chorus of
> "Reelin'" both use G (major and major 7, respectively )for two
measures and
> then move to A. That's pretty much where the similarity ends as far
as I
> can tell.
>
> (Geeky sidebar: although "Reelin'" is in 'pitched' in A throughout,
the
> chorus employs the flat-7 - and adds the major 7th. Gawd, I love these
> guys. One could argue that their influence was Bach, but then again,
so was
> everyone else who ever attended music school!) [End sidebar]
>
> Yours,
> Kathryn Ballard
>
Hi Kathryn,
Accurate and informative,as usual.I have nothing to add to that.
However,I would be interested to know if Dandom in general is also
heavily into the music of J.S.B. I know it has underpinned all of
my musical experience and I believe it to be a source of inspiration
for many,many musicians.BTW it was the anniversary of his birth last
week.
For anybody interested I particularly recommend the solo cello suites,
try Suite No.1 in G Major BWV 1007 ,it will blow your mind (forgive the
ancient phrase ) :-)
Chris R
--
'Moderation in all things including moderation'
Oscar Wilde
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve Cobham
Ziegenhagen) wrote:
> "Stephen" <ste...@nospam.galemail.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I never noticed that quote before (maybe someone else knows what/where it
>is?), but I *do* feel that the last phrase of the guitar solo during the
>break before it goes back to the I chord is a quote from the jazz standard
>"Don't Get Around Much Anymore", quoting the opening phrase for "missed
>the Saturday dance" (or is it Mr. Saturday dance?).
It's "Missed the Saturday dance".
>
>Anyone else ever notice that?
Nope.
The only direct quotes in rock of "Jesu, joy of man's desiring" that I
know of are as follows.
1) 12 string Rickenbacker solo in the Byrds' "She don't care about
time"
2) Intro to the Move's "So You Want To Be A R&R Star", which is a
Byrds homage anyway
3) Beach Boys "Lovely Linda"
I'm sure there are others, but I definitely can't hear the tune in any
versions of RITY that I own.
The only thing vaguely Bach-like that I can hear in RITY is a
descending bass line in the verse like in "Air On The G String", but
JSB didn't have the monopoly on that musical device.
Steve.
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Marc Ziegenhagen
>It's "Missed the Saturday dance".
Ah, thought so. Thanks.
>>Anyone else ever notice that?
>
>Nope.
Do you think it's an intentional quote? It always struck me that way.
Jake Wildstrom
Steve Cobham <st...@guitars.powernet.co.uk> wrote:
>The only direct quotes in rock of "Jesu, joy of man's desiring" that I
>know of are as follows.
>
<PEDANTIC> It's actually "Lady Lynda".</PEDANTIC> Also, "Lady Liberty", a song
with the same backing tracks but new lyrics.
+--First Church of Briantology--Order of the Holy Quaternion--+
| A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into |
| theorems. -Paul Erdos |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jake Wildstrom |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Greg Anderson
> I would be interested to know if Dandom in general is also
> heavily into the music of J.S.B. I know it has underpinned all of
> my musical experience and I believe it to be a source of inspiration
> for many,many musicians.BTW it was the anniversary of his birth last
> week.
This SD fan is. A particular favorite is the 6-part ricercar at the end of
the Musical Offering. It starts so simply, and by the time all six parts
have entered, your head is just swimming. Kind of like the sensation I get
from the title track of Two Against Nature.
Greg
Greg Anderson
> There's a live performance--I can't remember which one right
> now --but after the guitar solo, as the song is winding out, you
> can hear the guitar player (I think it's Skunk or Denny) playing
> the melody from "If I Only Had a Brain."
My favorite odd SD guitar break is the demo recording of Everyone's Gone To
The Movies, where the rhythm guitar kicks up a few bars of the Jackson 5's
"The Love You Save" (at least, that's what it sounds like to me).
Greg
Steve Cobham
>In article <ANPhOBdENAC3HJ...@4ax.com>,
>Steve Cobham <st...@guitars.powernet.co.uk> wrote:
>>The only direct quotes in rock of "Jesu, joy of man's desiring" that I
>>know of are as follows.
>>
>>3) Beach Boys "Lovely Linda"
>
><PEDANTIC> It's actually "Lady Lynda".</PEDANTIC>
Yes, but you knew what I meant... ;-)
>Also, "Lady Liberty", a song
>with the same backing tracks but new lyrics.
I admit to a bit of a blindspot with the Beach Boys when Brian Wilson
isn't involved, which I believe he wasn't as far as LL is concerned.
Why the name change?
Just so that this post is on-topic, anyone noticed the Doctor Wu
musical reference on the new album?
Favourite 2vN song of the day - Janie Runaway - what a sugar-coated
dose of poison this song is.........and that's a compliment!
Siri Bakken
<mizducky@drizzle dot com> wrote:
>there is a prominent hunk of tune that
>makes up the instrumental break, played on guitar(s), that is heavy on
>triplets (I think in when the Dan played that live, Denny and Skunk would
>play it at top speed in a sort of "dueling guitars" unison). The triplets
>would make it *reminiscent* of the majorly triplet-heavy "Jesu...". In fact,
>I always thought that passage in RITY sounded sort of Bach-ish. However, its
>jazzy chord progression to me never had any relationship to "Jesu...". So to
>summarize ... I conclude that you and your friend were close, but no seegar.
That's exactly what I think, too.
It's not the guitar solo, but the riding guitar breaks that bear a
slight resemblance of "Jesu Joy Of Man's Desiring".
At least I would quickly be able to see that link if I was 17..
Speaking about Bach - in RITY (the book) it says that Baxter's solo on
"The Boston Rag" was inspired by Bach's "Toccata and Fugue" which he
had just taught himself to play.
I would never have thought of that myself, but sure... Or perhaps it's
another Toccata and Fugue than the one I'm thinking of (the most
famous one in D-minor)?
Siri
Siri Bakken
wrote:
>Speaking about Bach - in RITY (the book) it says that Baxter's solo on
>"The Boston Rag" was inspired by Bach's "Toccata and Fugue" which he
>had just taught himself to play.
>I would never have thought of that myself, but sure... Or perhaps it's
>another Toccata and Fugue than the one I'm thinking of (the most
>famous one in D-minor)?
Correction: The reference to the solo in Boston Rag is from "The
Complete Guide to the Music of Steely Dan", not from "RITY".
In RITY, there's different take: Baxter was hung up on one particular
chord pattern from the T&F, he told Donald about it, and Donald put
the actual chord change in Boston Rag.
And that's a more convincing story.
Siri
I'm logged on, therefore I am.
Stephen
Lots of kind people wrote helpfully-intended things.
Thanks. If none of you chaps have spotted it, then I must indeed have been
mistaken.
I blame the Cuervo Gold, actually.
Stephen
PS the cheery aspect is that my 14-year old son, although now seriously
doubting his sad parent's credibility and sanity, has been listening to the
whole collection and reckons that it is all seriously good stuff, especially
the keyboard playing (he appears immune to guitar work, sadly).
Jake Wildstrom
Steve Cobham <st...@guitars.powernet.co.uk> wrote:
>On 29 Mar 2000 15:31:43 GMT, wil...@mit.edu (Jake Wildstrom) wrote:
>>Also, "Lady Liberty", a song
>>with the same backing tracks but new lyrics.
It's actually a version recorded for some dedicatory thing for the Statue of
Liberty. It's the B-side of the Beach Boys' cover of _California Dreamin'_.
A not very good RA is available at http://members.aol.com/chaschke/sounds.htm
The BB actually did a lot of stealing from themselves. In particular, their
entire (unreleased until recently) 0's Christmas album is a rehash of new
lyrics over songs from their MIU album. Particularly egregious is "Christmas
Time is Here Again", a reworking of their MIU cover of "Peggy Sue" (yes, the
Buddy Holly song). Their cover wasn't that good to begin with, and didn't
improve with new lyrics.
>Just so that this post is on-topic, anyone noticed the Doctor Wu
>musical reference on the new album?
Er, no. Do tell!
>Favourite 2vN song of the day - Janie Runaway - what a sugar-coated
>dose of poison this song is.........and that's a compliment!
Yum. Tossup for me between Janie and Almost Gothic.
joe_so...@my-deja.com
Chris R <xti...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> However,I would be interested to know if Dandom in general is also
> heavily into the music of J.S.B. I know it has underpinned all of
> my musical experience and I believe it to be a source of inspiration
> week.
> For anybody interested I particularly recommend the solo cello suites,
> try Suite No.1 in G Major BWV 1007 ,it will blow your mind (forgive
the
> ancient phrase ) :-)
>
> Chris R
i'm a classical guitar hack but a serious hack. lately have been working
up the double menuet from the 4th lute suite. can play parts of other
things like jesu, sleepers awake, the e-minor bouree, one of the
solo violin partitas. recently bought a new instrument that's helping me
tackle the more difficult stuff.
goin to peabody in june to audit master classes with manuel barrueco and
in light of the recent anniversary, the repertoire focus is on bach's
music, although i'm sure there will be other goodies.
in terms of playing, there's no such thing as a simple piece by bach.
some are less difficult than others.
to play a bach piece and get it all right, including feeling, tone,
tempo, dynamics, lordy! it's like a religious experience.
Chris R
joe_so...@my-deja.com wrote:
> i'm a classical guitar hack but a serious hack. lately have been
working
> up the double menuet from the 4th lute suite. can play parts of other
> things like jesu, sleepers awake, the e-minor bouree, one of the
> solo violin partitas. recently bought a new instrument that's helping
me
> tackle the more difficult stuff.
> goin to peabody in june to audit master classes with manuel barrueco
and
> in light of the recent anniversary, the repertoire focus is on bach's
> music, although i'm sure there will be other goodies.
> in terms of playing, there's no such thing as a simple piece by bach.
> some are less difficult than others.
> to play a bach piece and get it all right, including feeling, tone,
> tempo, dynamics, lordy! it's like a religious experience.
>
Yes,I first got into Bach from listening to Julian Bream play the 1st
and 2nd Lute Suites plus,of course,Fugue in A Minor,in the late 60's.
I can just about play the start of most of the pieces but I always end
up listening to JB playing as I don't think 2 lifetimes would give me
enough time to get to his standard.
I sometimes think that if we ever discover the answer to the great
question of life,the universe and everything we will find out that Bach
wrote it centuries ago.
Cheers,
Chris R
--
'Moderation in all things including moderation'
Oscar Wilde
Steve Cobham
>In article <gzLiOMrL4CiA9w...@4ax.com>,
>Steve Cobham <st...@guitars.powernet.co.uk> wrote:
>>Just so that this post is on-topic, anyone noticed the Doctor Wu
>>musical reference on the new album?
>
>Er, no. Do tell!
Check out the intro of "What A Shame About Me" and "Doctor Wu" Isn't
some of the percussion similar?
Also, have a listen to "Jack Of Speed" and "The Royal Scam" - almost
exactly the same groove (as Lewis Saul puts it).
And when the title track first comes on, don't you almost expect it to
go into "Do It Again"?
References to past SD triumphs.
I think it's intentional.
Tim and Trish McDonald
anyone remember the heavily synthed high speed pop version of Jesu titled
simply "Joy" (forget who did it but the album cover-remember those?- had
some sixties looking lady on it)? For all the reasons previously mentioned
(notably the high speed dual guitar work), pop produced sensibility of this
version of "Joy",PLUS the fact that they were released pretty close together
chronologically speaking-would this explain it?
Stephen <ste...@nospam.galemail.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8btl2c$4k7$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
don&walt
Long out of print, but you can find a version of "Joy" on the
Rhino compilation "Have a Nice Day Vol. 7"
-The Charmer
Ken Robertson
<st...@guitars.powernet.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>
>I admit to a bit of a blindspot with the Beach Boys when Brian Wilson
>isn't involved, which I believe he wasn't as far as LL is concerned.
lady linda , from L. A. ( Light Album ) 1979
brian was there physically
and part of the time he even knew where he was
Ken R
www.dhc.net/~krobert
NP: Switched-on Bach 2000
( what a strange time to run into this thread )