Keith Jarrett and Gaucho - the Fagen and Becker rip-off
pfgpowell
the story (of which I knew nothing) of the lawsuit Keith Jarrett
brought against Fagen and Becker of plagiarism. It seems he claimed
the song Gaucho is ripped off from his song Long As You Know You're
Living Yours. Give it a listen — the resemblance is startling. Rip-off
might be a tad too strong, but at this point I am at a loss to think
of any kinder phrase. Give it a listen on Spotify.
SiD
> I was just looking up Babylon Sisters on Wikipedia and I came across
> the story (of which I knew nothing) of the lawsuit Keith Jarrett
> brought against Fagen and Becker of plagiarism. It seems he claimed
> the song Gaucho is ripped off from his song Long As You Know You're
> Living Yours. Give it a listen — the resemblance is startling.
Coming from THE STEELY DAN INTERNET RESOURCE..
The following interview with Donald and Walter first appeared in
Musician magazine, circa 1980
MUSICIAN: Are you familiar with a Keith Jarrett record Belonging,
particularly a tune called "Long as you know you're living yours"?
BECKER: Yes.
MUSICIAN: Have you ever listened to that up against "Gaucho"?
BECKER: No.
MUSICIAN: I'm not casting any aspersions now, but in terms of the tempo
and the bass line and the saxophone melody it's pretty interesting.
BECKER: Parenthetically it is, yeah [uneasy laughter]
MUSICIAN: At this point the reporter traditionally asks the cornered
politican or athlete to "go off the record."
FAGEN: Off the record, we were heavily influenced by that particular
piece of music.
BECKER: I love it.
[Becker and Fagen later approved their "off the record" responses for
publication.]
SiD
W^3
SiD <jan....@telenet.be> wrote:
Given that, I wonder if they settled out of court.
The old geezer
> In article <002279b8$0$22117$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>,
Yeah, KJ probably made more $$$ off of that than the total of all his
album sales lifetime combined!
The old geezer
ND: Conway's Irish Ale
NP: Dynamic Stillness - Steve Roach
W^3
<ead6558d-f622-436f...@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Doubt that. The Koln Concert was a massive success, more than 3.5
millions copies sold, and the best-selling solo album in jazz history.
pfgpowell
Have any of you guys been able to listen to the relevatn Keith Jarrett
track. What puzzles me is that the resemblance is so strong, even a
deaf donkey would have picked up on it. So why Becker and Fagen went
ahead anyway is almost incomprehensible. It's not as though they
needed a tune, they have plenty excellent other ones of their own.
Darrin
Law of averages state: there has to be unintentional similarities
between songs. eh e.g. Listen to the chord progression for "While My
Guitar Gently Weeps," "25 or 6 to 4," and "Babe I'm Going To Leave
You." They're exactly the same! LOL! -D, NYC "Ninety minutes from New
York to Paris (more leisure for artists everywhere)..well by seventy-
six we'll be A-O.K...what a beautiful world this will be..what a
glorious time to be free" - DONALD FAGEN (sweet Jew).."We'll move to
Manhattan and fill the place with friends" - DONALD FAGEN.."Gentleman
loser, drive me to Harlem..or somewhere the same" - STEELY DAN..."From
their boats of iron they looked upon the promised land..Where surely
life was sweet..on the rising tide to New York City" - STEELY
DAN.."Brooklyn owes the charmer under me" - STEELY DAN.."Bad sneakers
and a pina colada my friend, stomping by the Avenue at Radio City" -
STEELY DAN.."Daddy don't live in that New York City no more - he don't
celebrate Sunday on a Saturday night no more" - STEELY DAN
Steven Folberg
> > >
> > > > Coming from THE STEELY DAN INTERNET RESOURCE..
> > > > The following interview with Donald and Walter first appeared in
> > > > Musician magazine, circa 1980
> > >
> > > > MUSICIAN: Are you familiar with a Keith Jarrett record Belonging,
> > > > particularly a tune called "Long as you know you're living yours"?
> > >
> > > > BECKER: Yes.
> > >
> > > > MUSICIAN: Have you ever listened to that up against "Gaucho"?
> > >
> > > > BECKER: No.
> > >
> > > > MUSICIAN: I'm not casting any aspersions now, but in terms of the tempo
> > > > and the bass line and the saxophone melody it's pretty interesting.
> > >
> > > > BECKER: Parenthetically it is, yeah [uneasy laughter]
> > >
> > > > MUSICIAN: At this point the reporter traditionally asks the cornered
> > > > politican or athlete to "go off the record."
> > >
> > > > FAGEN: Off the record, we were heavily influenced by that particular
> > > > piece of music.
> > >
> > > > BECKER: I love it.
> > > > [Becker and Fagen later approved their "off the record" responses for
> > > > publication.]
> > >
> > > > SiD
> > >
> > > Given that, I wonder if they settled out of court....
I just bought the track on iTunes, and the similarity is startling...
not just the sax part, but the piano vamp is very similar to Gaucho.
It's a little disheartening, since "Gaucho" is one of my favorite SD
tunes.
IanKR
> not just the sax part, but the piano vamp is very similar to Gaucho.
> It's a little disheartening, since "Gaucho" is one of my favorite SD
> tunes.
Hmmm.
I just down-loaded the track from iTunes. I agree that the I IV I IV ...
repeated piano vamp in the intro is similar, and that both have a Spanish
feel in places, but I think it's no more than an influence. They're not
copying any of the sax line, or the chord structure of the verse or the
chorus.
Kyle
At least they owned up to it and allowed the "off the record" comments
to appear in the (Musician magazine) article.
pfgpowell
That reall isn't the point. Granted that the similarity is
unintentional - these guys really do not need to rip anyone off - but
once that similarity was apparent, the wise move would have been to
ditch their own tune and whisper c'est la vie. The true mystery is why
they went ahead anyway, despite, by their own admission ('we were
heavily influenced') realising that there was - albeit inadvertent -
plagiarism.
pfgpowell
This is whistling in the wind by an incorrigible diehard. The relevant
parts are not 'similar', they are identical. Granted that the middle
bit is different but in the grand scheme of things, that is
irrelevant.
George Dobbs
Here's another: HOMAGE. (It's not an homage if you cannot recognize the bloody similarity).
Klaus & Rooster
In the end, Don & Walt did the right thing to grant co-authorship to Keith Jarrett for Gaucho.
Dan Drummond
I've been able to isolate the majority of the tracks from the Gaucho (bass, synth, drums, vocals, etc.) and even now, years on, I'm still learning more about the song, such as sweeping synth solo at 04:22 - 04:23 and other nuances which previously could only be heard on a mixing desks with the master reels.
It's been fun taking the song apart to 14 different combinations of vocals, bass, guitar, brass, synth, drums/percussion, etc. the problem I've got now as that I want to do the same for the entire Steely Dan/solo collection, which will take a while. The process doesn't work with all songs sadly - I've been trying to isolate the harmonies on Peg's chorus for example, but the frequencies are so close, what comes back is mixed in with main vocals, but it still sounds amazing. Their early material, including the earlier demos like Stone Piano, etc. work particularly well.
The one thing I have been playing around with is changing the scale from the original track to a Melodic Minor, Harmonic Minor, Dorian, etc. - it changes some songs in ways you'd never expect, namely Aja, where changing the scale to a major scale, feels so wrong and yet changing the scale on other songs that use a lot of major chords to a melodic/harmonic minor scale, almost gives the song a darker edge, for example, Walk Between The Raindrops, now sounds like it belongs in a David Lynch film ;) I'd upload a sample but can't upload files on here.
Klaus & Rooster
You can hear the interview on Spotify in Leo Sidran's Podcast "the Third Story". Very interesting and very entertaining...
https://open.spotify.com/episode/02s5On1QWtrshMKph0cwt0?si=BfSDLZgdQTWBJanTAX0iIA
Best Regards,
Dan Drummond
Klaus & Rooster
Dan Drummond
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x12vzrydkupwzs9/The%20Dark%20Nightfly.zip?dl=0
Klaus & Rooster
> That's a fair point Klaus, I've uploaded a zip file to my DropBox with the entire Nightfly album in a Harmonic Minor key, sounds interesting, happy listening :) I'll leave it available to everyone for a couple of weeks, after that if anyone wants a copy, just let me know. I'm slowly going through every Steely Dan/solo song and converting them to Harmonic Minor, Lydian, Major and Melodic Minor and Whole Tone keys, it's going to take a while, but once it's all done, I'll find a way to share with everyone.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x12vzrydkupwzs9/The%20Dark%20Nightfly.zip?dl=0
thanks for sharing ... harmonic minor ... unbelievable