R&B SD classics
ti bon ange
that), Donald says "Josie" is just a good rhythm and blues tune
that's fun to play (or words to that effect). But I must
confess, the R&B aspects of Josie completely elude detection by
me.
That's not saying much, of course, since I don't hear "The Fez"
as a disco tune, either. Go figure.
But D&W have written some R&B that could easily stand up on any
compilation that included Richard Berry or The Honeydrippers,
Charles Brown or Louis Jourdan, Johnny Otis or Joe Turner or
even Eddie "CleanHead" Vinson.
Two tunes that leap immediately are, from Catalyst, "I Can't
Function," and from Donald Fagen (Kamakiriad), "Confide in Me."
"Confide in Me," especially, is a fabulous R&B tune. If you look
at Donald performing today and think he's channeling Ray
Charles, this is the song that proves it. It could easily be
tooled into a tour song, and no one could remain seated (nor
would they be expected to). Extremely anthemic, reminiscent in
its energy of "Dancin In The Streets."
I'm copying the lyric down here for anyone who knows it but
maybe hasn't been able to figure out the words, or for people
who don't know it at all. Also, there's one line I've never been
sure about--"This place is cute." The way Donald pronounces some
words makes their meaning obscure even when he doesn't intend to!
So, here's "Confide in Me:"
After the crash
When you’re strolling through the ruins alone
Pick up the phone
When you feel twisted
Honey I’m listed
Confide in me
Confide in me
Got no degree
But I’m strong on tears and careless hearts
Brave new starts
You know I’m a big fan
I got a program
If you’ll just confide in me
We’ll sit in my kitchen babe
We’ll drink lots of coffee babe
We’ll begin just where you left off
And you can tell
How you flew
And how you fell
And I’ll make your landing soft
My place is cute
And it’s kind of comfortable in a storm
Safe and warm
We’ll throw open the nighttime
Let in the sunshine
If you’ll just confide in me
<instrumental>
We’ll sit in my kitchen babe
We’ll drink lots of coffee babe
We’ll begin just where you left off
And you can tell
How you flew
And how you fell
And I’ll make your landing soft
This place is cute
And it’s kind of comfortable in a storm
Safe and warm
We’ll throw open the nighttime
Let in the sunshine
If you’ll just confide in me
If you’ll just confide in me
Yes I’m strong
Careless hearts
You know I’m strong
Brave new starts
Confide in me
I’ll hold your hand
Confide in me
Understand
Say you slipped
You made a mistake
Confide in me
For goodness’ sake
<repeat, fade out, stop suddenly and uncertainly...>
Comments?
love and kisses
diane
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN Webring
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good things
Also, I don't think "Confide in Me" was on Kamakiriad, only on the
"Tomorrows Girls" CD singles (just pop it in the player).
GT
ti bon ange wrote in message
<2ae659c6...@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com>...
Steve_2000
oriented band could get away with playing back in the day when
Steely Dan regularly charted singles.
Funky indeed, Steely Funk...not Tower of Power machine-gun
tight, but there are subtle little accents.
"Jo, would you love to scrapple ?
She'll never say no -(snare pop!)- No!" (funky bass walk-up
etc..)
Way cool groove.
My current rock/*some* funk 2-guitars-no-keyboards 'for-fun'
dance band has been undergoing a subtle 'Josie' brainwash
recently. After seeing the Guys live again a couple of months
ago, I finally decided any band I was in needs to play a Steely
Dan tune! It's a matter of principle for chrissakes.
We tend to learn easy rock and soul songs (with guitar friendly,
non-jazzy chords) as we don't have time for much rehearsal.
I figured we could learn many of the earlier rock-ish Steely
tunes. But (from experience) they would probably stiff the
dancers and wind up on the 'B' list or, worse, in the dreaded
and seldom played 'dinner set'- where they would suck cause it's
Quiet. 'Josie' would work for the dancefloor though, even if it
is a bit of a stretch for our little four piece.
We are a 'democratic' group-dammit-and vote on which songs to
learn. So I started the manipulation by mentioning country star
Clint Black's band had surprised everyone by doing justice
to 'Josie' on their Austin City Limits appearance... blowing
away the studio audience. Our drummer-another vet of dance bands
from the SD singles days-played nicely into my mention by
saying, "Josie? Great Groove."
Yes!
Last practice I had learned the intro to Josie and noodled it
out as we were messing around. The band is neutral/repectful on
Steely Dan-I am the crazed one who knows all their songs and
stuff. But most folks who listen to rock and pop radio in the
US recognize that signature intro as from 'a Steely Dan song'-
even if they're not sure which one till the groove comes in.
The drummer Knew (Again!-good boy!) and jumped in when I started
scratching out the Em7 composite thing I have to do for 'Josie'
with our instrumentation. I also played a little of the bass
line so they could hear the Steely groove.
"Hey that's a cool tune. Doesn't it have some weird chords later
on, tho?"
"Yeah I have em at home...they aren't that hard, it's just a
funked-up jazzy little blues-rocker.." (covering All Bases:)
Yes! Now, take it slow. One thing at a time. We Are gonna break
out the hats and hooters Soon.
They just don't know it yet.
Steve
"Have Song-Will Lobby"
ti bon ange
>Josie is R&B because of the groove.
I just don't hear it as R&B. Sorry.
>Also, I don't think "Confide in Me" was on Kamakiriad, only on
>the "Tomorrows Girls" CD singles (just pop it in the player).
Yes, perhaps I should have been more clear. I figured everyone
here would know that when I put (Kamakiriad) in parentheses,
that meant I was referring to that particular DF solo period.
love and kisses
diane
Join the TRAVELS WITH STEELY DAN Webring
http://hometown.aol.com/jackofdays/steelytours.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------
Steve_2000
>"good things" wrote:
>
>>Josie is R&B because of the groove.
>
>I just don't hear it as R&B. Sorry.
>
>diane
Diane, I think it could be a case of genre/definitions..as far
as what 'R+B' is to different people.
I deal with folks requesting styles of music regularly, and R+B
is bandied about as a fairly broad descriptor. Some folks use
the R+B as a catch-all term to cover *most* non-rock 'soul
music.'
Few are as accurate (imo) as you in mentioning the true genre-
defining classic Rhythm and Blues (and jump blues, etc) artists
that you listed in your first post.
Steely Dan is always a special and tricky case for
categorization, as they always lay their unique style and
harmonic sense into a base-style/genre...when they choose to go
that route.
Many Steely Dan songs are unique to themselves stylistically,
but SD (and Donald Fagen-solo) have frequently gone to the blues
and jazz/blues 'well' and Steely-ized something which will
eventually be a modified jazz-blues such as 'Pretzel Logic'
or 'Chained Lightning.' Or a Steely jazzy-blues classic small-
combo shuffle such as 'Walk Between The Raindrops.' They know
all the shadings of the more sophisticated blues styles, from
bebop to more modern stuff-and when using them as a starting
point-they always alter the various styles with their own
chords/harmonic structure.
Don and Walt seem to enjoy 'modestly' pointing this out in
interviews..casually pointing out that (insert great Steely Dan
tune here...say "Black Friday" or even "Peg")-is 'just a
modified blues.' Ok, but very cleverly and uniquely modified,
and with great lyrics.
And of course "Deacon Blues" is-ironically-not even remotely
blues-based musically. It's one of those totally unique Steely
Dan compositions that can only be categorized as such.
---------------
I just dug out my copy of 'Confide In Me' to refresh my memory.
What a cool tune! That's gotta be Drew on guitar...
Given your authentic R+B frame of reference, I definitely hear
traditonal/classic Rhythm and Blues/big band blues with the
expanded and more sophisticated blues-based song structure of
the genre. Nice and very musical chord changes, altered with
some unique Donald Fagen jazzy chord substitutions/voicings to
make the tune his own.
These (Steely/Fagen) Rhythm and Blues changes are laid over an
(imo) modern, driving blues-rock groove-with the bass leaning
heavy on the rhythm and usually simply playing the pulsing tonic
note for each chord in the main parts of 'Confide In Me.' The
sophistication comes from the nice Rhythm and Blues song
structure and what DF adds to it with his chordal magic.
---------------
Getting down to cases...my (subjective) description of 'Josie'
would now more correctly be that it's a more contemporary 'pop-
funk' tune musically...loosely based on a bluesy type chord
progression-with the ubiquitous jazzy changes tossed in to put
an always refreshing, always very musical Steely Dan stamp on
the song.
My take anyway-as good as I can figger,
Steve
Snow2iger
>that), Donald says "Josie" is just a good rhythm and blues tune
>that's fun to play (or words to that effect). But I must
>confess, the R&B aspects of Josie completely elude detection by
>me.
Just listen to the bass and drums alone, if you can. It is r&b. A ton of the
Dan's songs are r&b/jazz influenced. Don & Walt have stated their love for r&b,
or as Fagen called it (with a grin) "race music", which is of course what it
was called prior to other terms invented for it.
Listen to Keltner's drums alone on the bridge of Josie.
You might be surprised to find out just how many Blacks love Steely Dan's
music.
Any tune Chuck Rainey is playing bass on ends up being r&b/funk.
Klaus & Rooster
news:2ae659c6...@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com...
> In the Aja documentary (I think I'm safe referring to it like
> that), Donald says "Josie" is just a good rhythm and blues tune
> that's fun to play (or words to that effect). But I must
> confess, the R&B aspects of Josie completely elude detection by
> me.
Diane,
it appears quite helpful if there is a chance for you to have a look at the
Donald Fagen Piano Instruction Video, it's something about Jazz Arragement
and songwriting. It is published by Homespun Video. In this video, Donald
explains how some of the SD songs were derived from a classical 12 bar blues
by adding a little more sophisitcation here and there. Among the tunes he is
talking about (together with Warren Bernhard) is Josie. Fro that particular
tune Donald plays a few bars of a "swampy" and "bluesy" sounding vamp that
serves to explain to point of departure. At that point it becomes quite
clear why songs like Josie can be considered as "R&B". By the way, "Peg"
would also qualify for the same reason.
Now, having said that I understand Donald's and Walter's attitude towards
R&B and Blues slightly different to any standard notion. I gues they look at
standard, run-of.the-mill R&B music, Blues, Soul (!) and Jazz. And they like
lots of that stuff for various reasons. As a next step they kind of extract
what they consider the essence of those styles and achieve a kind of
abstraction of various musical styles. Such abstractions lead to musical
statements or musical building blocks or ingredients for the lack of a
better word. Those ingredients will be recombined in a new and creative way
to generate music that we all are crazy about. Of course, once the new
"abstract" ingredients are re-combined it is not that obvious to call Josie
a R&B tune, but it is, in a certain abstract way.
So, it may very well be that for Donald and Walter Josie and Peg are R&B
tunes ! And "On the Dunes" is a Blues !! In fact, it is, thoufh abstract !
Cheers
Klaus & Rooster
YoYo
snow...@aol.comstayaway (Snow2iger) wrote:
> You might be surprised to find out just how many Blacks love Steely
> Dan's music.
Uptown, baby!
--
---YoYo--- ---...@nigiri.org---
Dave Moore
Steve_2000 <steve_200...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote:
> Diane, I think it could be a case of
> genre/definitions..as far as what 'R+B' is to
> different people.
Yeah, I'd totally go along with that! The name "R+B" has been applied to at
least six or seven different types of music over the past 60 years, so you
have to define quite closely exactly what you mean by the term. Louis
Jordan? Chuck Berry? Earl Bostic? Muddy Waters? Tamla Motown? ...
etc., etc., etc.
I'm horrified by what I see in the "R+B" racks of record shops today, for
example ...
And if you can call such a wide spectrum of different types of music "R+B",
then I don't see why you couldn't put "Josie" under the same banner. But it
doesn't help much, does it?
But hell, who needs these labels anyway, especially since they confuse?
It's all just music.
Dave
Miz Ducky
to traditional rhythm & blues as one of Picasso's cubist still-
lifes is to a traditional "representational" still-life. This is
not to diss either the traditional R&B nor the traditional
painting--far from it. Both of those trad works groove in their
own way. But Don and Walt, like Picasso, sorta spring the
traditional form into several alternate dimensions. Josie is an
especially good case in point: all that angular-banjo-esque,
almost Oriental-sounding edginess to it (largely due to Walter's
kinda loose-jointed guitar-work), all the open space to the
arrangement ... and yet that steady R&B rhythm pulsing
underneath it all.
As a matter of fact, try this on for size: compare "Josie's"
rhythm track--just the rhythm track, mind you, what the rhythm
guitar is playing (was that Parks? not remembering right now) to
the rhythm track of "Shotgun" by Jr. Walker and the All-
Stars. "Josie's" just a tad slower, if I'm recalling rightly,
but to my ears the rhythm pattern's pretty darned close. (Of
course, everything else about the two songs is totally
different. But that rhythm thing had been haunting me off and on
for some time, until I finally remembered where I'd heard it
before ... )
Or maybe I'm smoking crack, I dunno. But at least I'm keeping
myself amused. :-)
Mam'zelle Daphne Canard
http://www.drizzle.com/~mizducky
"kind of like the opposite of an aerial view ... "
Snow2iger
>> You might be surprised to find out just how many Blacks love Steely
>> Dan's music.
>
>Uptown, baby!
>
"White, Black, Puerto Rican, everybody just a freakin' "
:)
Snow2iger
True. It's just as easily dismissive to call Steely Dan a rock & roll group.
>But hell, who needs these labels anyway, especially since they confuse?
>It's all just music.
Exactly. Some artists and groups are too varied in their style to be
categorized. Van Morrison plays a lot of styles...but he's in the rock category
in retail stores.
R&B WAS "Rock & Roll" until politics and other evils entered into play.
DrJ
Miz Ducky wrote:
> My personal take is that "Josie" and other such Steely tunes are
> to traditional rhythm & blues as one of Picasso's cubist still-
> lifes is to a traditional "representational" still-life.
my dear Mme. Canard this is poetry in motion. I can hear the angular
banjos.
i;m also still clearing out all these old messages and coming across
some real pearls.
sorry for the allusion to mollusca, btw, i know this is a phylumatic
violation of jurisdiction.
where was i?
> This is
> not to diss either the traditional R&B nor the traditional
> painting--far from it. Both of those trad works groove in their
> own way. But Don and Walt, like Picasso, sorta spring the
> traditional form into several alternate dimensions. Josie is an
> especially good case in point: all that angular-banjo-esque,
ha! you hearin 'em toooo. "alternative dimensions" yesssss- such as 13
bar pantonal blues?
tell you what, ask Pablo to shake hands with Salvador Dali and I think
you are really onto something.
Dali was a remarkable painter [as well as those other things]. he
coulda been a photo realist if he chose. but he was fruggin to the beat
of a different drummer for sure. i love this analogy. Imagine Dali's
surreal masterpiece called "Bad Sneakers".
the first time i heard BS i got images of clocks melting over the edges
of some ditch out in the valley.
>
> almost Oriental-sounding edginess to it (largely due to Walter's
> kinda loose-jointed guitar-work), all the open space to the
> arrangement ... and yet that steady R&B rhythm pulsing
> underneath it all.
loose-jointed but oh so evocative and passionate. hard edges with
things dripping over them [okay so i guess i'm pushing the Dali thing
into your analogy. cool?]
>
>
> As a matter of fact, try this on for size: compare "Josie's"
> rhythm track--just the rhythm track, mind you, what the rhythm
> guitar is playing (was that Parks? not remembering right now) to
> the rhythm track of "Shotgun" by Jr. Walker and the All-
> Stars.
more synchronistic delight.
shoot 'em fo they run, now... a big resonant yes, 10-4 good ducky to
that.
i heard it too. on that note, on first listen i also got a haunting
allusion to The King and I in the horn chart to the interlude of I Got
The News... the "poor Elisa" line during the presentation of "The Cabin
of Uncle Thomas" [sic!]... i belive i've mentioned this before to da
room [to make an asylum, all you need is a room and the right people].
> "Josie's" just a tad slower, if I'm recalling rightly,
> but to my ears the rhythm pattern's pretty darned close. (Of
> course, everything else about the two songs is totally
> different. But that rhythm thing had been haunting me off and on
> for some time, until I finally remembered where I'd heard it
> before ... )
hauntingly good choice of words.
>
>
> Or maybe I'm smoking crack, I dunno. But at least I'm keeping
> myself amused. :-)
another 15milligrams and i think you should start writing songs, dear.
gotta match?
David