Worst Steely song...
Chad Dressler
OK, so there have been plenty of conversations about their best songs
and best albums, but what about the worst? They did have a few
clunkers, after all.
My vote for worst song is "Change of the Guard." I've always hoped the
lyrics are supposed to be sarcastic, but I have a feeling they aren't.
Even if they are, the music is definitely not up to SD standards.
Rob
I always thought the amazing thing about don and walt was their ability
to achieve such a consistently high quality product. A dud SD song would
be the highlight of any FM radio setlist, even now.
I tend not to make judgements on the basis of lyrics. A couple of very
fine intellects at work here. Better together than solo, but their solo
works have shed a whole new light on their dual career and re-awakened
my interest all over again. Especially Walt's. So *he's* the sardonic
bastard. Don's no slouch in that department either, but more of a
nostalgist. In the nicest possible way. :)
When it comes to music, someone's pet hate will always be someone else's
best favourite. For instance I don't much care for East St Louis
Toodle-oo, but then that's an Ellingon song, isn't it? Rose Darlin is my
other least favourite. The Fez and Haitian Divorce a little corny maybe.
I'd be interested to know which was their favourite. Probably changes
with the mood and the time of the day, like the rest of us.
Rob
Wabash Slim
Chad Dressler wrote:
>
> OK, so there have been plenty of conversations about their best songs
> and best albums, but what about the worst? They did have a few
> clunkers, after all.
>
> My vote for worst song is "Change of the Guard." I've always hoped the
> lyrics are supposed to be sarcastic, but I have a feeling they aren't.
> Even if they are, the music is definitely not up to SD standards.
I personally, don't mind COTG too much...but what I really can't stand is "Monkey in
your Soul"...especially coming after "Charlie Freak"...the album should have ended right
there, in reverential silence.
--
Wabash Slim...the meanest rootin' tootin' tweaker twirler
this side of the Pecos...
KiNGME
>> I personally, don't mind COTG too much...but what I really can't
stand is "Monkey in your Soul"...especially coming after "Charlie
Freak"...the album should have ended right there, in reverential
silence. <<
I love "Charlie Freak" but keeping in line with our topic, I would have
to say that I dislike the "Fez" and perhaps "Haitian Divorce". I think I
only put up with some of these songs because I am such a fanatic myself
that I don't have any perspective...
!^NavFont02F0180000FMGJHGB2MGB4HH81962C
Rey Anthony
> I love "Charlie Freak" but keeping in line with our topic, I would have
> to say that I dislike the "Fez" and perhaps "Haitian Divorce". I think I
> only put up with some of these songs because I am such a fanatic myself
> that I don't have any perspective...
albums! If I had to pick one song I could do without, I guess it'd be
"Everyone's Gone to the Movies". Now I even hate calling that the Worst
song. I really don't dislike or "put up" with any of them.
Rey
John Duffy
In article <0996070321584...@DeLTaNet.COM>, KiNGME
<KiN...@DeLTaNet.COM> writes
>>> I personally, don't mind COTG too much...but what I really can't
>stand is "Monkey in your Soul"...especially coming after "Charlie
>Freak"...the album should have ended right there, in reverential
>silence. <<
>
>to say that I dislike the "Fez" and perhaps "Haitian Divorce". I think I
>only put up with some of these songs because I am such a fanatic myself
>that I don't have any perspective...
>
>
I can't believe you guys don't like Hiatian Divorce, now the dreary Royal Scam
track which goes on forever is my vote for the waste basket.
John Duffy
Brian Magnuson
> > > OK, so there have been plenty of conversations about their best songs
> > > and best albums, but what about the worst? They did have a few
> > > clunkers, after all.
> > >
> > > My vote for worst song is "Change of the Guard." I've always hoped the
> > > lyrics are supposed to be sarcastic, but I have a feeling they aren't.
> > > Even if they are, the music is definitely not up to SD standards.
> >
> > your Soul"...especially coming after "Charlie Freak"...the album should have ended right
> > there, in reverential silence.
>
> I love "Charlie Freak" but keeping in line with our topic, I would have
> to say that I dislike the "Fez" and perhaps "Haitian Divorce". I think I
> only put up with some of these songs because I am such a fanatic myself
> that I don't have any perspective...
Without a doubt, it's "Rose Darling". "The Fez"???? It's so tongue-in-cheek that it's a must
only because it's rare to see so much humor come from Fagen and Becker in one of their
songs. "Haitian Divorce," yes, maybe, and I'm also not too big of a fan of "Glamour
Profession" and am surprised to see them performing it on their current tour. A little too
disco-oriented for my tastes.
----------------------------
Only opinions, not attacks... a discussion does not warrant a concussion.
Iain Cummings
In article <3204DB...@tbcnet.com>, Brian Magnuson
<magn...@tbcnet.com> writes
>only because it's rare to see so much humor come from Fagen and Becker
>in one of their songs.
Eh?
These two guys have the driest wit in the Biz.
>
>----------------------------
>Only opinions, not attacks... a discussion does not warrant a concussion.
--
Iain C*mmings - ia...@cummings.demon.co.uk
LIVE THE JIMMY McNULTY EXPERIENCE - OR ELSE !
Come and have a drink, a swear and a bottle fight!
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/7433/
ElmtreeG
The only songs I have not been able to connect to eventually (and I've
listened to it all a lot) are Green Earrings and Peg. These seem to be
big favorites of other SD fans, and of D+W, and I'm frankly mystified
because I consider them real clunkers, despite areas in each that are
truly great sound. Is there anyone out there that sympathesizes?
Shawn Franklin
You guys are insane in the brain!!!!!!!!
Hatian Divorce is theeeeeeeeeeee Steely Dan song!!!!
It rules (IMHO)
My dislikes are My old school
Reeling in the years
Brooklyn (w/David Palmer!)
My favs are Brooklyn (W/ the master Donald Fagen!)
Hatian Divorce
Everything you did
Glamour Profession
Black cow
Gaucho
Your gold teeth (1 and 2)
Razor Boy
Babylon sisters
Rose Darling
Chain Lightning
Green Earings
Kid Charlamane
I think you get the point. I must say though I think the nightfly is
my favorite piece if music Don has ever written
An independent station WJAZ
With jazz and conversation
From the foot of mt.Belzoni!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Village
Shawn Franklin wrote:
> My favs are
> Glamour Profession
At long last - someone besides myself showing appreciation for this great track - I've
seen it getting dogged so many times I almost lost hope... And yes I'm aware of the
disco overtones ;-)
Glamour Profession is simply their best song ever IMHO!
Great choice of fav songs btw.
later
H.
Village
Brian Magnuson wrote:
> and I'm also not too big of a fan of "Glamour
> Profession" and am surprised to see them performing it on their current tour. A little too
> disco-oriented for my tastes.
Interesting - Glamour Profession is my favourite Steely Dan song ever - if only they
were always that much disco-oriented, they would hold a chance of being my
favourite band ever...
As for worst song, I'm not sure - a lot of their stuff on the 1st 2 albums don't do a
thing for me.
later
H.
Mr. H or Torgo
Brian Magnuson <magn...@tbcnet.com> wrote:
> I'm also not too big of a fan of "Glamour Profession" and am surprised to
> see them performing it on their current tour.
Aw, FUCK! Thanks for the spoiler, pal! It would have truly thrown me
for a loop if they started playing it at the show I'm going to. I live
for concert moments like that-- getting the unexpected. Stick a
spoiler in the heading next time.
Tim Shoppa
In article <4u2l4r$f...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
Shawn Franklin <sam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Hatian Divorce is theeeeeeeeeeee Steely Dan song!!!!
>
>It rules (IMHO)
I've gotta agree there.
>My dislikes are My old school
> Reeling in the years
> Brooklyn (w/David Palmer!)
Now I've always liked "My Old School" and "Reeling in the Years".
Absolutely top-notch guitar solos on both! Why do you dislike them?
I have to agree that they both have been a over-played on the radio
to the point where I'd often rather not listen, but I don't hold
that against them.
As far as the David Palmer tunes go, I also like "Dirty Work" a lot.
True, it's not very much like what SD later became. But it's a nice
pop tune.
Oh, in a _Giant_ brand grocery store in suburban Maryland a few weeks
ago I heard a Muzak version of "Glamour Profession". I don't know about the
other shoppers, but I liked the idea of buying groceries to a tune
about west-coast drug dealers! Along the same lines, I've taken
an elevator ride to the Muzak version of "Kid Charlamagne". Wonder if
the execs at Muzak are aware that that one's about LSD factories...
Tim. (sho...@triumf.ca)
Gusgoodwin
In article <4u3pim$4...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, sho...@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim
Shoppa) writes:
>Along the same lines, I've taken
>an elevator ride to the Muzak version of "Kid Charlamagne". Wonder if
>the execs at Muzak are aware that that one's about LSD factories...
>
>
I sincerely doubt it. My dad is a retired Muzak exec and when I told him
that I got tix to see Steely Dan he said "Oh, I think I like him". :-)
KathyG
Rob
John Duffy wrote:
>I can't believe you guys don't like Hiatian Divorce,
> now the dreary Royal Scam
> track which goes on forever is my vote for the waste basket.
Well there you go. I first heard The Royal Scam at about 4am after being
up all night watching Robert Mitchum movies and the mist was rolling in
off the river. (This was back in the days when all-night TV was still a
novelty, but mist has been around forever of course.) One of my all time
faves.
Rob
David L.
Brian Magnuson <magn...@tbcnet.com> wrote:
>> > > My vote for worst song is "Change of the Guard." I've always hoped the
>> > > lyrics are supposed to be sarcastic, but I have a feeling they aren't.
>> > > Even if they are, the music is definitely not up to SD standards.
>> >
>> > I personally, don't mind COTG too much...but what I really can't stand is "Monkey in
>> > your Soul"...especially coming after "Charlie Freak"...the album should have ended right
>> > there, in reverential silence.
"Can't Buy a Thrill" features a number of songs which seem to express
sincere sentiment, unlike the many-layered subtexts SD is best known
for. "Change of the Guard" is possibly the most extreme example. Not
the most appropriate song for 1972, the year Nixon was re-elected by a
huge margin. By the way, to me it sounds like COTG has Palmer and
Fagan singing the entire song duet, resulting in a strange blend of
voices in which Fagan's vocals are occasionally discernable. Or maybe
I'm imagining it.
>> I love "Charlie Freak" but keeping in line with our topic, I would have
>> to say that I dislike the "Fez" and perhaps "Haitian Divorce". I think I
>> only put up with some of these songs because I am such a fanatic myself
>> that I don't have any perspective...
>Without a doubt, it's "Rose Darling". "The Fez"???? It's so tongue-in-cheek that it's a must
>only because it's rare to see so much humor come from Fagen and Becker in one of their
>songs. "Haitian Divorce," yes, maybe, and I'm also not too big of a fan of "Glamour
>Profession" and am surprised to see them performing it on their current tour. A little too
>disco-oriented for my tastes.
The only SD songs I'm not crazy about are the ones that are almost too
darkly mournful, such as "Midnight Cruiser", which I think is still
excellent musically. It would be interesting to hear Fagan sing it,
given his ability to impart ironic undertone to whatever he performs.
Some later examples of nostalgic songs of lost youth are "Pearl of the
Quarter" and "Boston Rag", but by this point the strong self-satirical
element is in evidence.
What I admire most about SD is their tendency toward cynicism and
mockery over sentimentality and melancholy. This is what gives their
music its bite 20 years later and beyond.
--David
KiNGME
>> Peg. <<
I really like that song because I like the tune and I sort of know a
person like that.
!^NavFont02F004C000DMGJHGNMGPHG4E71E7
--
KiNGME!
Just a foolish man... "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise..." [1 Corinthians 1:27 KJV]
KiNGME
>> Now I've always liked "My Old School" and "Reeling in the Years". <<
I always liked "My Old School" because I was a Pink Floyd fan in the
early 80's. It fits right in with their "Another Brick in the Wall, Part
2" (We Don't need no Education...).
And "Reeling..." was the first SD song I liked. I couldn't stand Fagan's
voice until about 1985!
!^NavFont02F0119000EMGJHG39MG3BHHb0D9E
Chad Dressler
Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
> In article <4u2l4r$f...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
> Shawn Franklin <sam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Hatian Divorce is theeeeeeeeeeee Steely Dan song!!!!
> >
> >It rules (IMHO)
>
> I've gotta agree there.
>
> >My dislikes are My old school
> > Reeling in the years
> > Brooklyn (w/David Palmer!)
>
> I have to agree that they both have been a over-played on the radio
> to the point where I'd often rather not listen, but I don't hold
> that against them.
>
I liked the original "Reelin," but the "Alive In America" version is
definitely a vast improvement. It's especially interesting because that
single song could be used as a "before and after" snapshot on the
development of Steely Dan. I really hope they put out another live
album with material from the current tour, just so I can hear the new
"Midnight Cruiser" and make the same kind of comparison.
Incidentally, although this might a separate thread, I've noticed a lot
of posts to Under the Banyan Trees that were disparaging of Walter's
singing, especially on "Midnight Cruiser" in concert. Although I
haven't seen the show, I must say that I was very impressed with
Walter's voice on "Book of Liars." He may not have the pitch range of
Donald, and I don't know how good his sense of pitch is on songs he
hasn't been singing every night for months, but he definitely has better
tone than Donald. From a technical standpoint, Donald could really use
some singing lessons; he really sounded strained when I saw them in
1994. I know his nasal quality is a trademark of Steely Dan, but I
think he sounded better earlier in his career ("Countdown to Ecstasy,"
for example).
Brian Smith
You people must be older than dirt... how can you not like Rose
Darlig, The Fez, or Hatian Divorce??? Those are some of my
faves...You want to talk about lame songs? Lets talk about show biz
kids, east st louis toodl-oo, parkers band, or barrytown!!!
David Taylor
Chad Dressler <cdre...@icosa.drew.edu> wrote:
Snipped ...
At the recent show in Toronto, Fagen sounded almost as good as the
studio has made him -- pretty good considering his vocal limitations.
Becker's vocals, on the other hand were one of the few low points of
the evening.
Just my opinions. Not intended to be flame bait for anyone!
dt
David Taylor
(THE) Marketing Solutions Ltd.
mkt...@inforamp.net
tay...@ibm.net
KiNGME
>> From a technical standpoint, Donald could really use some singing
lessons; he really sounded strained when I saw them in 1994. I know his
nasal quality is a trademark of Steely Dan, but I think he sounded
better earlier in his career <<
Heh heh heh!
It took me almost 13 years to develop a taste for Fagan. I think what
originally hooked me were the lyrics. I loved "Major Dude" for some
reason...
I have a tendency to love the things I once hated. I couldn't stand Rush
for years and the same goes for Metallica. But once they grow on me I
love them to pieces.
I have a couple "bootleg" CD's (whatever you want to call them) that has
Fagan doing a BAD Bob Dylan by accident but it turned out okay in the
final cut.
BTW, It seems that Fagan sang the songs, wrote the songs, and doctored
the songs... what the hell did Becker do?
!^NavFont02F029F0007MGHHIA090EF
KiNGME
>> Well there you go. I first heard The Royal Scam at about 4am after
being up all night watching Robert Mitchum movies and the mist was
rolling in off the river. <<
I always remember the first time I heard Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the
Moon" too.
It is strange that my two favorite bands wrote about not needing no
education and never going back to my old school... ;*)
!^NavFont02F012C0006MGHHHu9A7A
Heikki Hietala, Esq.
In article <4u2l4r$f...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> sam...@ix.netcom.com (Shawn Franklin) writes:
>From: sam...@ix.netcom.com (Shawn Franklin)
>Subject: Re: Worst Steely song...
>My dislikes are My old school
> Reeling in the years
> Brooklyn (w/David Palmer!)
Can someone pleeease tell me what Brooklyn is all about? I can't make out what
Fagen is singing, but there must be some logic to the words. "Brooklyn knows
the charmer under me" ??????????
-h.
We're Knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able,
we do routines, and chorus scenes, with footwork impeccable,
we dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot!
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
more info on the Knights Templar at
http://www.trantex.fi/staff/heikkih/knights/portcull.htm
Bob Peck
: >Can someone pleeease tell me what Brooklyn is all about? I can't make out
: > what Fagen is singing, but there must be some logic to the words.
: >"Brooklyn knows : >the charmer under me" ??????????
: I read that it's about some wierd guy who lived in the appartment below
: when Becker lived in Brooklyn.
Here're the lyrics, you figure it out (these are entered right off of my
copy of the album). The "president" bit is not with the lyrics, but is a
note in the song list on the back of the album cover.
BROOKLYN (OWES THE CHARMER UNDER ME) President Pete is the beneficiary here
A race of angels
Bound with one another
A dish of dollars
Laid out for all to see
A tower room at Eden Rock
His golf at noon for free
Brooklyn owes the charmer
Under me
His lady's aching
To bring a body down
She daily preaches
On where she wants to be
An evening with the movie queen
A face we all have seen
Brooklyn owes the charmer
Under me
A case of aces
Done up loose for dealing
A piece of island cooling in the sea
The whole of time we gain or lose
And power enough to choose
Brooklyn owes the charmer
Under me
Copyright 1972 Red Giant Music, Inc.
--
+---------------------------------------+
| Bob Peck : bp...@prairienet.org |
+---------------------------------------+
Marcus Biering
Here's a big vote for "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" as Worst of the Best. I
actually hit the track skip button every time it comes on, unthinkable on Dan
CD's.
Hgky
In article <320557...@grupo.bfe.pt>, Village <halv...@grupo.bfe.pt>
writes:
>Brian Magnuson wrote:
>> and I'm also not too big of a fan of "Glamour
>> Profession" and am surprised to see them performing it on their current
tour. A little too
>> disco-oriented for my tastes.
>
if only they
>were always that much disco-oriented, they would hold a chance of being
my
>favourite band ever...
>As for worst song, I'm not sure - a lot of their stuff on the 1st 2
albums don't do a
>thing for me.
Whoa! Just the opposite for me. Twenty years ago, I remember listening
to
Can't Buy A Thrill and Countdown over and over again and couldn't find a
track I didn't like. Still have the vinyl around somewhere. Still like
both of 'em
on CD. But as the albums progressed, there were more Steely tunes that I
just couldn't get into at the time with the exception being Aja. Guess it
could
be what you grew up with and what you expected. Glamor Profession is
almost
in NightFly territory for me. Don't get me wrong, I like all the Steely
and Fagen
stuff but I like some stuff less than others.
>
>later
>
>H.
Gusgoodwin
In article <4ugnpb$o...@news-e2b.gnn.com>, MBie...@gnn.com (Marcus
Biering) writes:
I have to agree with you there. I really don't care for that tune. I saw
SD at Irvine Meadows on 08/09 and that was the third song of their first
set. At least they got it out of the way early.
KathyG
Slither
>
>In article <4ugnpb$o...@news-e2b.gnn.com>, MBie...@gnn.com (Marcus
>Biering) writes:
>
>>Here's a big vote for "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" as Worst of the
>Best. I
>>actually hit the track skip button every time it comes on, unthinkable
on
>Dan
>>CD's.
I have to disagree here. E.G.T.T.M. is a wonderfully sarcastic song
about a pervert and child pornographer down the hall. The childlike
innocence of the melody combined with the extremely "direct" lyrics are
the embodiment of the post Ironic Irony and sacrasm of the band we know
and love as Steely Dan.
Wabash Slim
I can, to an extent...GE was my least fave on The Royal Scam but I'm liking it more now
after hearing the live CD...still burned out on Peg, tho'!
--
Wabash Slim...the meanest rootin' tootin' tweaker twirler
this side of the Pecos...
paulrw
I really hate Your Gold Teeth (the first one). The second one is
brilliant.
KiN...@DeLTaNet.COM (KiNGME) wrote:
>>> I personally, don't mind COTG too much...but what I really can't
>stand is "Monkey in your Soul"...especially coming after "Charlie
>Freak"...the album should have ended right there, in reverential
>silence. <<
>I love "Charlie Freak" but keeping in line with our topic, I would have
>to say that I dislike the "Fez" and perhaps "Haitian Divorce". I think I
>only put up with some of these songs because I am such a fanatic myself
>that I don't have any perspective...
>!^NavFont02F0180000FMGJHGB2MGB4HH81962C
Trh2130
Every song on Aja is great except for one. That one lame song is Home At
Last. It reeks of filler
Tim
Rob
Another case one fan's meat is another fan's poisson. I'm mystified by
AJA's success on the charts -- I think Steely Dan had been gradually
gathering support with previous albums and by the time AJA came along it
sort of snowballed. I think it was much to do with the previous LPs as
AJA itself. And previous singles. The radio here in Australia was
playing "Do it Again" etc a lot more around the time of AJA than when
Can't Buy a Thrill came out. AJA seems to me one of the more "difficult"
albums. Gaucho has a much more commercial feel to me. However, I love
"Home At Last". It's one of my all time faves from the later period, the
jazz infused period. I'm a big fan of Homer (not Simpson) author of "The
Odyssey" and James Joyce who wrote "Ulysses", which may help.
Dicky
David Hughes
Nightfly IMHO is, as was posted, a great album. Some of the songs may not
be "steely" but they are strong songs. And, while we all have our own
equally valid opinions, I've always thought Glamor Profession was (is) a
supurb song. I only say that because it is one of the few songs I
actually sing out loud when it is playing...no matter who is around.In
article <32192557...@198.70.175.6>, der...@sky.net (Don Erickson)
wrote:
> On 10 Aug 1996 06:57:29 -0400, hg...@aol.com (Hgky) wrote:
>
> >Glamor Profession is
> >almost
> >in NightFly territory for me.
>
> You don't like The Nightfly? For all the late sixties/seventies hype
> about "concept albums", I rank The Nightfly as one of the few fully
> realized albums of that genre. I consider it a masterpiece.
>
> -Don
Don Erickson
i...@teleport.com
The very fact that there are so few obvious clunkers
in the SD catalog is a true testimony to their genius.
My least favorites...
Royal Scam (title track): Plodding & harmonically boring.
Monkey in Your Soul: pretty cool guitar break almost saves it.
Dirty Work: It's not bad, just don't like the vocal, burned out
on it from too much radio play (go figure!).
That's bout it for me. Pretty much love everything else.
P.s.,
I can't understand not liking Everyone's Gone to the Movies.
This IMO is a great tune. Lots of space, incremental harmonies -
it really work for me. Funny lyrics, really wacko and fun
electric piano solo. I love songs that are this unexpected &
different (Haitian Divorice in this category too).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i...@teleport.com
Portland, OR
_ _ --- _
_ `. `. _ _ - \
/ `---._________________) . . . __ \
`. ________________ || || || | | |
`" ) '__'_' '--' /
`._ ." - _ _ "
Trh2130
Worst Dan song is Home At Last from Aja. After hearing all of the other
great songs on Aja, it is quite a letdown .
Tim
BHeneg8560
Don't you find that your value of each SD song evolves over the years?
Personally, I'm still coming to terms with most of Kamakiriad, a cd of
aerobics exercises, basically, no doubt engendered by DF's girlfriend's
urging him to write something POSITIVE, fa gods sake, no more of that
loser Nightfly crap. Weirdly, I prefer Becker's 11 Tracks of Whack, on
percentage. Any sympathisers, or have I said old stuff?
Marcus Biering
I heartily agree, I find new things in even the oldest material all the time. At
this point I appreciate Kamakiriad mostly for the good-feelin' grooves, the lyrics
are still working their way into my skull, while some of the songs on Whack are
definitely growing on me, despite my initially cool reaction toward the album. For
me, this is the definition of quality writing, stuff that's deep enough to not only
hold your interest but reveal new things about itself over the years. God that
sounded ponderous.
Jonathan Waterbury
In article <4vipp0$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bhene...@aol.com
(BHeneg8560) wrote:
> Don't you find that your value of each SD song evolves over the years?
> Personally, I'm still coming to terms with most of Kamakiriad, a cd of
> aerobics exercises, basically, no doubt engendered by DF's girlfriend's
> urging him to write something POSITIVE, fa gods sake, no more of that
> loser Nightfly crap. Weirdly, I prefer Becker's 11 Tracks of Whack, on
> percentage. Any sympathisers, or have I said old stuff?
I don't know if you've said old stuff or not. I like Kamarkiriad and I
like Nightfly and 11 Tracks of Whack is probably more popular with me than
either of the others. I actually find it hard to listen to the real early
stuff anymore without feeling like I'm wasting time. Tough beans, indeed,
but I always thought "Reeling In The Years" was preposterous. And I was in
high school then. Whatever. I was trying to decide between the Ramones and
Weather Report.
--
Cheers,
Jonathan
Sloth
David Hughes wrote:
>
> Nightfly IMHO is, as was posted, a great album. Some of the songs may not
> be "steely" but they are strong songs. And, while we all have our own
> equally valid opinions, I've always thought Glamor Profession was (is) a
> supurb song. I only say that because it is one of the few songs I
> actually sing out loud when it is playing...no matter who is around.In
> article <32192557...@198.70.175.6>, der...@sky.net (Don Erickson)
> wrote:
>
Rob
BHeneg8560 wrote:
>
> Don't you find that your value of each SD song evolves over the years?
> Personally, I'm still coming to terms with most of Kamakiriad, a cd of
> aerobics exercises, basically, no doubt engendered by DF's girlfriend's
> urging him to write something POSITIVE, fa gods sake, no more of that
> loser Nightfly crap. Weirdly, I prefer Becker's 11 Tracks of Whack, on
> percentage. Any sympathisers, or have I said old stuff?
I reco kon kamakiriad overlaid with 11 tracks of whack would be just about
perfect which is why together they get my vote.
Carey Deadman
My vote for worst SD track is "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" which isn't
actually a BF tune, but a remake of a Duke Ellington tune. It's the
only SD tune that I must skip. Can't stand to hear it.
SMiTEBoY
RE: jo...@nr.infi.net in article <jonaw-23089...@208.128.84.219> ....
>
>> Don't you find that your value of each SD song evolves over the years?
>> Personally, I'm still coming to terms with most of Kamakiriad, a cd of
>> aerobics exercises, basically, no doubt engendered by DF's girlfriend's
>> urging him to write something POSITIVE, fa gods sake, no more of that
>> loser Nightfly crap. Weirdly, I prefer Becker's 11 Tracks of Whack, on
>> percentage. Any sympathisers, or have I said old stuff?
>
>like Nightfly and 11 Tracks of Whack is probably more popular with me than
>either of the others. I actually find it hard to listen to the real early
>stuff anymore without feeling like I'm wasting time. Tough beans, indeed,
>but I always thought "Reeling In The Years" was preposterous. And I was in
>high school then. Whatever. I was trying to decide between the Ramones and
>Weather Report.
Well, I've always liked The Nightfly *A LOT*, with 11 Tracks Of Whack a close
second. Kamakiriad had two really good songs and some dismal filler. I
bought the tape and said to myself "I can't BELIEVE I waited 11 years for
this!!!!".....
Luckily, BAT OUT OF HELL 2 also came out that week....
--
----->SMiTEBoY
**********************************
I am the gun....you are the bullet
**********************************
Beth
i...@teleport.com wrote:
> The very fact that there are so few obvious clunkers
> in the SD catalog is a true testimony to their genius.
Very well put! I can't think of a "worst" Dan tune because,
as I see it, there are none. There are songs I don't
particularly care for but, to be honest, I think it's
due to the fact that I don't fully understand the concept
of those songs. In other words, I didn't "get" it! That's
why I've always enjoyed the lyric discussion in this ng.
-- Beth
Chunga
Worst Song... There is no such thing!!! Recently saw Steely Dan at
Riverbend...They were all I expected and more. Fagen was GREAT
i...@teleport.com wrote in article <321A20...@teleport.com>...
> The very fact that there are so few obvious clunkers
> in the SD catalog is a true testimony to their genius.
>
Tim Reardon
I think you can't make music in a 64 Track digital studio just for the
sound, you have to have the soul to back it up. Kamakiriad lacks the
emotion of previous works. When you get great session players such as Steve
Gadd, Larry Carlton, Micheal McDonald on your albums, a Drum machine and a
sequencer hardly make up for it. Sure it sounds great, and even a few of
the songs show a glimpse of past glory, but it will never in my mind
compare to the performances of "AJA" or "The Royal Scam". Sorry Donald, but
the strength of your music is in the personalities you brought together to
create the masterpieces us Dan fans all love...Tim Reardon
Morton M. Goldmacher
Carey Deadman <cdea...@tensornet.com> wrote:
I figured that it was put at the end of the side so that it could be
skipped. The song appears to be filler to give the album a couple
extra minutes.
Morton M. Goldmacher
Barrister and Solicitor
Peter W. Aan
"East St. Louis.." IS different in several ways, so it may not suit
the average SD fan, but I love the wah-wah guitar work. Some of the
best I've heard.
Kmslugnut
Have to put my $0.02 in:
Never liked "I Got the News" off Aja; just always seemed kind of thrown
together IMHO, even though I'm a Michael McDonald fan and Walt's got some
cute solos in there. I would quickly defend The Royal Scam, though;
always thought there was something cohesive and understated about it . . .
kept going through my head when I drove a truck OTR . I could skip
"Reeling in the Years" just because it's been played to death by every
oldies lounge rock band.
Bruce MacDonald
i...@teleport.com wrote:
>My least favorites...
>Royal Scam (title track): Plodding & harmonically boring.
>Monkey in Your Soul: pretty cool guitar break almost saves it.
>Dirty Work: It's not bad, just don't like the vocal, burned out
>on it from too much radio play (go figure!).
Here we are again...."The Royal Scam" and "Monkey in Your Soul" are
two of my favourite Dan songs! I can understand your not liking
"Dirty Work", though. The tenor sax solo in it just about recovers it
from complete crapness, but hey, it was their first legit studio
album, so give the guys a break, huh?
My vote for worst Dan songs are (in reverse order):
3. The Fez
2. Change of the Guard
1. Charlie Freak
But like someone else said on this thread, the fact that there are so
few obviously bad songs in the Steely Dan canon to any one Dan fan
underlines their quality as songwriters. Of course, there are people
out there who are not Dan fans and probably hate _all_ of their songs.
But as they say in Yorkshire, there's nowt as queer as folk....
See you at Wembley on September 9!
Bruce MacDonald
br...@macdnld.demon.co.uk
"...and she has legs which go up to her armpits -
not literally, that would be hideous." Alan Partridge
J St David
To each their own, Dirty Work is one of my all time favourite Steely Dan
songs.
I guess that is what makes the world go around.
Jas
ri...@eznet.ca
In article <01bb9582$901c9520$b6e3...@treardon.juncton.net>,
Oh my god!!!!!! How can you say anything bad about Kamikiriad??? It is the
BEST album ever recorded!!!!!! 11 Tracks of Wack deserves the critisism
here....
SMiTEBoY
RE: ri...@eznet.ca in article <50hr9d$o...@hugeez.eznet.ca> ....
Here's my opinion. Since they produced each other's works anyway, I've really
been of the opinion that these are actually Steely Dan albums. If you were to
take the two albums, put them together, and then cut out the "filler", then
you'd have one HELL of a Steely Dan album. I'd be sure to keep "Tomorrow's
Girls", "Trans-Island Skyway", "Down In The Bottom" and "Book Of Liars", too!
Bjorn Ciggaar
alc...@interlog.com (Morton M. Goldmacher) wrote:
>Carey Deadman <cdea...@tensornet.com> wrote:
>>My vote for worst SD track is "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" which isn't
>>actually a BF tune, but a remake of a Duke Ellington tune. It's the
>>only SD tune that I must skip. Can't stand to hear it.
>I figured that it was put at the end of the side so that it could be
>skipped. The song appears to be filler to give the album a couple
>extra minutes.
That's true. But still it's on an A side ("Pretzel Logic"). BTW, the
song was written by Duke Ellington and Bubber Miley. Just a filler? I
like that tune. Kinda jazzy. Sounds really a lot like that "Tetris"
tune.
Bjorn
Martin Jameson
>
>>Carey Deadman <cdea...@tensornet.com> wrote:
>
>>>My vote for worst SD track is "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" which isn't
>>>actually a BF tune, but a remake of a Duke Ellington tune. It's the
>>>only SD tune that I must skip. Can't stand to hear it.
>
>
>>I figured that it was put at the end of the side so that it could be
>>skipped. The song appears to be filler to give the album a couple
>>extra minutes.
>
about a filler. A few fairly tuneless fragments thrown together. Keeps
stopping and starting. And basically drivel.
Martin
Patrick Thrapp
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Bjorn Ciggaar wrote:
> alc...@interlog.com (Morton M. Goldmacher) wrote:
>
> >Carey Deadman <cdea...@tensornet.com> wrote:
>
> >>My vote for worst SD track is "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" which isn't
> >>actually a BF tune, but a remake of a Duke Ellington tune. It's the
> >>only SD tune that I must skip. Can't stand to hear it.
>
>
> >I figured that it was put at the end of the side so that it could be
> >skipped. The song appears to be filler to give the album a couple
> >extra minutes.
>
> That's true. But still it's on an A side ("Pretzel Logic"). BTW, the
> song was written by Duke Ellington and Bubber Miley. Just a filler? I
> like that tune. Kinda jazzy. Sounds really a lot like that "Tetris"
> tune.
>
> Bjorn
>
>
>
Geezz, that was one of my more favorite SD songs too. :(
woof woof, http://www.afn.org/~afn39695/washingt.htm
Patrick Thrapp http://www.wolfenet.com/~pthrapp
Beat me, whip me, make me squeal.
Hurt me, abuse me, make me scream!
Tim Perry
cig...@telebyte.nl (Bjorn Ciggaar) wrote:
>alc...@interlog.com (Morton M. Goldmacher) wrote:
>
>>Carey Deadman <cdea...@tensornet.com> wrote:
>
>>>My vote for worst SD track is "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" which isn't
>>>actually a BF tune, but a remake of a Duke Ellington tune. It's the
>>>only SD tune that I must skip. Can't stand to hear it.
>
>
>>I figured that it was put at the end of the side so that it could be
>>skipped. The song appears to be filler to give the album a couple
>>extra minutes.
>
>That's true. But still it's on an A side ("Pretzel Logic"). BTW, the
>song was written by Duke Ellington and Bubber Miley. Just a filler? I
>like that tune. Kinda jazzy. Sounds really a lot like that "Tetris"
>tune.
>
>Bjorn
I listened to P-logic yesterday, and while east st. is also not
one of my favorite, it does seem to have a purpose in the arrangement
of the songs.
It does seem to prepare, or unprepare me for the great tune
that follows. Without hearing east st first, id have a slightliy
different feeling for parkers band.
Tim
Martin Jameson
>
>>Carey Deadman <cdea...@tensornet.com> wrote:
>
>>>My vote for worst SD track is "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" which isn't
>>>actually a BF tune, but a remake of a Duke Ellington tune. It's the
>>>only SD tune that I must skip. Can't stand to hear it.
>
>
>>I figured that it was put at the end of the side so that it could be
>>skipped. The song appears to be filler to give the album a couple
>>extra minutes.
>
>That's true. But still it's on an A side ("Pretzel Logic"). BTW, the
>song was written by Duke Ellington and Bubber Miley. Just a filler? I
>like that tune. Kinda jazzy. Sounds really a lot like that "Tetris"
>tune.
Elligton tune and then start side two with Parker's band, thereby
showing Becker and Fagan's Jazz influences? So I think it was a bit
more purposeful than just a filler.
But you're right. It is crap.
cheers
Martin.
J St David
NIce to see all you professional, successful musicians second-guessing a
group who does a pretty good job at arranging. Keep it up, they might hire
you.
Jas
Martin Jameson
If you follow your logic through then only practitioners could comment
on anything - and this newsgroup would just be a pile of nausiating,
uncritical adulatory burble. We're the audience - we can say what the
funk we like....
And by the way. I am a professional musician (amongst other things).
Martin
J St Francis
Gee Martin
Can another person not say that it seems presumptious to tell a successful
group that they are doing things wrong?
I never said they needed unconditional support, but it does seem a bit
strange to say that a fan knows better than the group.
Jas
Martin Jameson
Hmmm, I don't think anyone was telling Steely Dan that they were doing
things wrong, as such. A newsgroup strand on Worst Steely Song... is a
cute idea, and entertaining to contribute to precisiely because they are
such perfectionists and the Dan's work is so... great. It's actually
quite interesting to look at where they fell down a bit. It helps define
their qualities and their successes. These are opinions... responses...
not instructions... and so it is a bit of a downer to have some one come
along and say:'Don't have that conversation'.
And you're not telling me there isn't a Dan track that you skip from
time to time....
Martin
J St David
That was my point entirely. There are a few (and frequent of late) posters
who seem to think they could do better. So when that mood comes over you,
try this little exercise.
Take your least favourite Dan song, album, set of tracks whatever, and
really listen to them. Then ask yourself, Honestly, could you do it
better?
Might make you see things in a whole new light. I am not saying there
aren't songs I don't like, BUT my not liking them doesn't mean they are
bad. It simply means <<I>> don't like it.
Jas
Martin Jameson
>Take your least favourite Dan song, album, set of tracks whatever, and
>really listen to them. Then ask yourself, Honestly, could you do it
>better?
>
Why take such a passive standpoint? I work in broadcasting, and when
someone writes to me having disliked something in one of my shows I
always look to see what I have done to provoke that response. I may
disagree with their opinion but it hasn't come from nowhere. Opinions
mean something, and are useful. Even if you think the giver of those
opinions has shit for brains. In entertainment you need people to like
your work, and there's a balance to be struck between meeting criticism
and staying true to your intentions.
Similarly, looking at say, Katy lied, which although it has several
truly classic tracks (eg Bad Sneakers, Katy Lied, Your Gold Teeth II
etc) also has the highest Dan quotient of second rate doodles Throw Back
The Little Ones, Chain Lightening - and arguably Any World That I'm
Welcome To, and even Everyone's Gone to the Movies (great culty lyrics,
but a bit thin as an arrangement - doesn't really go anywhere). A lot
of the Dan Fans I know would broadly agree with that (and that was
certainly the tone of the reviews when it came out in England back in
75[?]).... So what went wrong? Well the band had undergone a radical
change of structure, losing its permanent line-up and in the shake-up
Becker & Fagan seemed to lose their way for a while. the song
structures got too fussy, verses and choruses sat unhappily against each
other as if they were bits and pieces that originally belonged in
different songs... Arrangements got a bit bland... An album later
Bang! we're back on form with The Royal Scam and B & F have learned to
master their new working environment.
There are all sorts of warnings there for me about hard it is to manage
change and still keep effectively creative. And yes! You do start to
think 'I could do better than that' - and that IS the point. I want a
band like Steely Dan to go way over my head, skill-wise. What I admire
about them is the fact that they are so damned good - why listen to them
if they start to be second rate? And if you can't recognise the
shortfalls both in your own work - and in others - then you truly are up
shit creek creatively. It's really not good enough to lie back and say
- 'It's just my opinion'.
Martin
Bob Peck
How about this: we change the name of this thread from "Worst Steely
song..." to something like "Least excellent Steely songs..."
Bob
--
+---------------------------------------+
| Bob Peck : bp...@prairienet.org |
+---------------------------------------+
Iain Cummings
In article <0rekRAAJ...@jameson.demon.co.uk>, Martin Jameson
<mar...@jameson.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Take your least favourite Dan song, album, set of tracks whatever, and
>>really listen to them. Then ask yourself, Honestly, could you do it
>>better?
>>
>>Jas
>
>Why take such a passive standpoint? I work in broadcasting, and when
>someone writes to me having disliked something in one of my shows I
>always look to see what I have done to provoke that response. I may
>disagree with their opinion but it hasn't come from nowhere. Opinions
>mean something, and are useful. Even if you think the giver of those
>opinions has shit for brains. In entertainment you need people to like
>your work, and there's a balance to be struck between meeting criticism
>and staying true to your intentions.
>
Despite the fact that I disagree with you entirely about the quality of
the Katy Lied songs you mention, may I add that this is one of the most
perceptive posts I've read in a long time.
--
Iain C*mmings - ia...@cummings.demon.co.uk
Arnold Schwarzenegger IS Robert Burns in JIMMY McNULTY'S BONNIE SCOTLAND
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/7433
As recommended by LOADED - For sheep who should know better
Flatniner
Martin Jameson <mar...@jameson.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<0rekRAAJ...@jameson.demon.co.uk>...
> Similarly, looking at say, Katy lied, which although it has several
> truly classic tracks (eg Bad Sneakers, Katy Lied, Your Gold Teeth II
> etc) also has the highest Dan quotient of second rate doodles Throw Back
> The Little Ones, Chain Lightening - and arguably Any World That I'm
> Welcome To, and even Everyone's Gone to the Movies (great culty lyrics,
> but a bit thin as an arrangement - doesn't really go anywhere). A lot
> of the Dan Fans I know would broadly agree with that (and that was
> certainly the tone of the reviews when it came out in England back in
> 75[?]).... So what went wrong? Well the band had undergone a radical
> change of structure, losing its permanent line-up and in the shake-up
> Becker & Fagan seemed to lose their way for a while. the song
> structures got too fussy, verses and choruses sat unhappily against each
> other as if they were bits and pieces that originally belonged in
> different songs... Arrangements got a bit bland... An album later
> Bang! we're back on form with The Royal Scam and B & F have learned to
> master their new working environment.
Martin, you make some good points, but I have to disagree with your
critique of Throw Back The Little Ones, Chain Lightening, Any World
That I'm Welcome To, and Everyone's Gone to the Movies... sheesh!
These all work for me, always have! I understand that EGTTM is not
everyone's fav Dan tune, but I loved it instantly. I guess I'm a sucker
for a tune that builds harmonically under a simple line.
A nice example of this sort of thing is on the opening track of Bobby
McFerrin's Bang!zoOM, a really nice recording, BTW.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i...@teleport.com
Portland, OR
_ _ --- .
_ `. ` - . - \
/ `---._________________) . . . __ \
`. ________________ || || || | | |
`" ) '__'_' '--' /
._ ." - _ _ ."
Martin Jameson
>Martin, you make some good points, but I have to disagree with your
>critique of Throw Back The Little Ones, Chain Lightening, Any World
>That I'm Welcome To, and Everyone's Gone to the Movies... sheesh!
>These all work for me, always have! I understand that EGTTM is not
>everyone's fav Dan tune, but I loved it instantly. I guess I'm a sucker
>for a tune that builds harmonically under a simple line.
>A nice example of this sort of thing is on the opening track of Bobby
>McFerrin's Bang!zoOM, a really nice recording, BTW.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>i...@teleport.com
>Portland, OR
I suppose what I'm on about is the way that Dan at their best fuse the
musical arrangement with the lyric like no other band on the planet.
Critics always use the words 'irony' and 'wit' when thay talk about B &
F. But this isn't just in the lyrics. Check out My Old School - that
guitar solo is technically brilliant, yes, but it's more than that...
it's witty. I can't think of a better word to describe it. Check out
Show Biz Kids ('They got the Steely Dan T-shirts...' and the guitar
joins in with the sneer...). Barrytown, Parker's Band, etc etc....
Or if it isn't wit and irony, it's an incredible weaving together of
intricate musical elements. Take an often passed-by track, Night By
Night. I listen to that and it makes my jaw drop. It's full of tiny
constituent parts, cross rhythms, little chopped up guitar licks etc
which all come together to make an extraordinary, unified, groove.
On Katy Lied, this quality is lost. These are simply songs (nothing
wrong with that! I hear you say). You either like them or you don't.
But I feel as if they've got their mates in the studio, and they're just
playing along (very skillfully, but playing along all the same) with
varying degrees of success. A centralised, but regular band might have
approached these songs rather differently. And I can't believe that
they didn't miss Baxter...
When we get to The Royal Scam, that fusion of music and lyrics returns
with numbers like Haitian Divorce and Sign in Stranger and The Royal
Scam itself.
Personally, I get secretly a bit bored when we hit the Aja/Gaucho period
because I feel that we're into the world of high class jazz/rock/funkish
accompaniment - but who am I to say such a thing....?
Martin
ps Actually I loved Chain Lightning on the recent gig I saw. But that
was because of that trumpet player.
Dennis McGee
In article <XTug2JAb...@jameson.demon.co.uk>, Martin Jameson
<mar...@jameson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Katy Lied, this quality is lost. These are simply songs (nothing
>wrong with that! I hear you say). You either like them or you don't.
There are only two or three songs on both _Katy Lied_ and _Countdown To
Ecstasy that I care for ("Black Friday" and "My Old School" instantly come
to mind). Those are my two least favorite Dan albums.
--
_--_ Dennis McGee <den...@InfoAve.Net>
/ `--''> ,,,
| / I I |||||||||[:::] "This rock'n'roll music is
\ oo ,-._> ''' bigger than all of us!"
`--' - Alan Freed, 1955
Martin Jameson
In article <denmac-ya0231800...@NNTP.InfoAve.Net>, Dennis
McGee <den...@InfoAve.Net> writes
>
>There are only two or three songs on both _Katy Lied_ and _Countdown To
>Ecstasy that I care for ("Black Friday" and "My Old School" instantly come
>to mind). Those are my two least favorite Dan albums.
>
others - harder... rougher in sound. Some of the songs are certainly
not conventional in structure, being more in the line of rough-edged
grooves rather than actual songs.... but there's something about it.
It makes me wet myself every time...
Yours sincerely
Damp Bedroom
ps which are your favourites?
BHeneg8560
In article <51sdrs$o...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>,
drift...@usa.pipeline.com(J St Francis) writes:
>Can another person not say that it seems presumptious to tell a
successful
>group that they are doing things wrong?
>
>I never said they needed unconditional support, but it does seem a bit
>strange to say that a fan knows better than the group.
>
>Jas
Jas, when you say "strange to say that a fan knows better than the group",
knows about what? What he likes? Of course a fan's going to know more
about what he likes than Steely Dan themselves are. Therefore, it seems to
me, it's okay for a fan to tell a successful group about those moments of
the group's output that are less than 100% pleasing to that particular
fan. The group may not be very interested, but that's a different
question.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else thinks, least of
all the band . Think about it - what is this band for? What is any art
for? Its only function is to be loved, or not loved, as the case may be.
Art has no other function - or if it does have, then please somebody
enlighten me. So - one SD song doesn't match up to the others, for you.
Don't be surprised that everyone agrees with you, except that it's one of
the other songs that they're talking about.
In other words, your taste is your birthright and it is in no way
presumptious to tell a successful band that they are doing things wrong,
so long as by "wrong", you mean only something as innocent as "not liked
by you".
After all, "successful" means so many different things, and is applied to
a Scud attack as readily as to a cancer-cure research project. It all
depends on who's behind it.
Go on - be presumptious!
Ben Heneghan