I'VE GOT IT!!! THE MEANING OF `SWANS OF NEVER'!! + PUMPKINISM (help needed on research assignment)
soma//rev8:11
NB The following was posted to a sp mailing list, now here:
(if you follow pumpkinism (i mean a REAL pumpkinist, you might be able
to help me, pls read the second half of the posting for info).
--
greetings,
i'm so happy today, the reasons being, i'm half way there in cracking
the meaning of `gracious swans of never' in 33!!!!!
in my last post, i appealed to all those who know the meaning and
promised myself that i'll get the meaning somehow (so that i can move
on to another song)....wellll, after a sleepless night, i've figured 2
possibilities!!!
1. Swans have alot to do with royalty doesn't it? the Queen (ER2)
has always been associated with swans (dont ask me why, maybe the
British readers could answer this) so we get this impression of Jesus
as a `gracious' king, `topple to earth', that is, killed by `man' or
fallen (only to be risen again: "ive journeyed here and there and back
again").
Makes sense however, it is not `swan' but `swans', so i then concluded
the following to be more correct:
2. Swans in Chritianity symbolises Jesus' blood. so "swans topple to
earth" means Jesus' blood dripping to the ground during the
crucifixion.
That's it!!!!! Simple!!!!
However, you might'f notice that ive left out `of never' from all the
above quotes...that's because i dont know. i dont really know if that
has any signficance in that context but...hmmm...i'll ponder a bit
longer...
Also, `gracious' should be taken literally.
That's it....now...
-------------------
PUMPKINISM
What is it?
Pumpkinism is what i call the philosophy of by which billy (maybe
james) `preaches'.
it's a religion...many would argue however, that it's more a way of
life, however the argument for the former is a bit too long for me to
post but youll get an explaination when i finish what i have to
do...for the time being ... it's a religion.
ill be doing a study on this religion (for my degree of course) so I
NEED YOUR HELP. (that is all legitimate help).
i need to know a few things...and if anyone have information, please
help by emailing the info to me. (if you're going to post to this
newsgroups, pls also post me an individual copy--and make the subject
clear like "RE: PUMPKINISM" cos i do get a flood of pumpkin mails.
okay, i need:
1. info on the formation of the sp (beyond the basic which
everyone knows)...something deep.
2. billy's career, life and influences (again beyond basic).
3. when did pumpkinism first appear *in your country*?
also subjective questions such as:
4. do you get a religious experience every time you listen to
mayonaise for example?
5. why do you live by the preaching of corgan?
6. do you live by what you listen?
etc. tell me about your experiences...things like that.
BUT LEGITIMATE PUMPKINISTS *ONLY* (as opposed to *just* a pumpkin fan
- there's a difference).
THIS IS NO SHIT, I'VE GOT TO DO THIS AND I DONT WANT CRACKPOTS MAILING
ME TO TELL ME IRRELEVANT SHIT.
When i'm done with this research assignment, i'll post a summary of
the result to newsgroups, the sp mailinglist and a copy will go on my
web page.
Contributions used will be credited (unless you dont want it).
BUT ONLY LEGITIMATE PUMPKINISTS!!!!
Thunks
-tris
PS whether you're a pumpkinist is a subjective question, its up to
you to decide.
PS also, SP 16/256 COLOUR ICONS/ANIMATED CURSORS COMING SOON!!!!!
(i'm in the process of selection at the moment.)
PS also also, SP DESKTOP THEME (a better version) COMING SOON!!!!!!!
(before christmas i hope).
tr____ __
is___ / /\
____ / / \
___ / / /\ \
__ / / /\ \ \
_ / /_/__\ \ \
/________\ \ \
\___________\/
Greig McGill
>Pumpkinism is what i call the philosophy of by which billy (maybe
>james) `preaches'.
>it's a religion...many would argue however, that it's more a way of
>life, however the argument for the former is a bit too long for me to
>post but youll get an explaination when i finish what i have to
>do...for the time being ... it's a religion.
>
>ill be doing a study on this religion (for my degree of course) so I
>NEED YOUR HELP. (that is all legitimate help).
You need help all right!
More than anyone on this newsgroup can give I'll bet...
Man, are you sane?
Sure the pumpkins rock hard, and sure we all love 'em, but to turn them into
some kind of religious cult thing? This is sick!
I wonder how Billy/James/D'Arcy/Jimmy (YES Jimmy!) would feel if they knew you
were following their every word like gospel?
Billy: Shit James, you irresponsible tosser, how COULD you put that line in
that says "kill yourself"...
James: Billy dude, it's just a joke, and anyway, it's metaphorical...
Billy: But you KNOW there's that dick out there who interprets everything we
write as gospel - do you want his death on your conscience?
James: Ok...lets just go kill him!
Billy: Ok, cool!
<<They pick up assorted semi-automatic weapons and head for said nutcase>>
Ya see?
Just enjoy - don't worship!
Greig McGill
ri...@wave.co.nz
http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/rider
"All I ever wanted was everything..." - Billy Corgan
andyrawk
In article <3238cd95...@news.socs.uts.edu.au>, "soma//rev8:11"
<worm...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes
>james) `preaches'.
>it's a religion...many would argue however, that it's more a way of
>life, however the argument for the former is a bit too long for me to
>post but youll get an explaination when i finish what i have to
>do...for the time being ... it's a religion.
>
>ill be doing a study on this religion (for my degree of course) so I
>NEED YOUR HELP. (that is all legitimate help).
>
I think youre thinking about this too much. The meaning is simple...
Swans are gracious in the way they sail, and have been symbolized as an
icon of such for centuries. The fact they "topple to the earth" perhaps
suggests that is that they are "falling from grace". The "of never" is
just adding to the fact they are timelessly gracious.
And as the song is about him and his relationship with the world it
seems to make sense.
But im sure Billy doesnt think about his lyrics this much. People try
approach them like they are really contrived, im sure he just makes them
up as he goes along.
--
andyrawk
Jenn
sometimes just writes whatever is capable of holding some sort of
significance to anyone. Like abstract. I can come up with a million
possibilities to a million lyrics. But we all don't really need to
literally study them to the point of where it seems like school work. I
think that all a bunch of people really want to do is sit back, close
their eyes, listen, and "sink into" the music. And I'm sure that's what
Billy expects of his fans, instead of them analyzing to the point of
loosing sleep. *But* that "graceful swans of never.." thing was a good
revelation :) Don't take this as any form of flame, this is just merely
MHO. I do have to admit, Billy's lyrics are something to think about.
Once in a while I can write my opinion, and maybe help you on your
PUMPKINISM thing, but keep in mind that none of them will be
assumptions. I will take it seriously, but I wont assume that anything
*really* means anything.
Thoughts, flames, whatever at Corga...@aol.com
--lamented and assured,
Jenn
Wayne Lines
>>the meaning of `gracious swans of never' in 33!!!!!
>>Also, `gracious' should be taken literally.
No it shouldn't you MORON! BECAUSE THE FUCKING LINE IN THE SONG IS
"GraceFUL swans of never topple to the Earth" not "Gracious" YOU FUCKING
MORON! I HATE IDIOTS LIKE YOU! Not only do you come out with all this
bullshit about worshipping the band but you get their fucking lyrics
wrong! Have you never even READ the MCIS booklet?!?!
GET A LIFE!
Wayne.
--
************************************************************** wayne.
*"I got a handgun for twenty bucks * lines@
* From an offer on the back of a cereal box * dementia.
* It's got a smurf trigger and the bullets are blue * powernet.
* I hope I don't have to use it on you" - Dr. Frank, MTX * co.uk
**************************************************************
Godfrey Wilson
ri...@wave.co.nz (Greig McGill) wrote:
>>Pumpkinism is what i call the philosophy of by which billy (maybe
>>james) `preaches'.
>>it's a religion...many would argue however, that it's more a way of
>>life, however the argument for the former is a bit too long for me to
>>post but youll get an explaination when i finish what i have to
>>do...for the time being ... it's a religion.
>>
>>ill be doing a study on this religion (for my degree of course) so I
>>NEED YOUR HELP. (that is all legitimate help).
>
>More than anyone on this newsgroup can give I'll bet...
>Man, are you sane?
>Sure the pumpkins rock hard, and sure we all love 'em, but to turn them into
>some kind of religious cult thing? This is sick!
>Just enjoy - don't worship!
>
To worship is to appreciate the value of something. I'm sick of people
trashing others because they 'worship' the Pumpkins. If you enjoy
listening to them, you must appreciate their value.
Pumpkinism is cool.
"and you're mistaken, it's you thats faking, living and breathing and
dying too."
Kimberly Marie Haywood
On 14 Sep 1996, Wayne Lines wrote:
> >>i'm so happy today, the reasons being, i'm half way there in cracking
> >>the meaning of `gracious swans of never' in 33!!!!!
> >>Also, `gracious' should be taken literally.
>
> No it shouldn't you MORON! BECAUSE THE FUCKING LINE IN THE SONG IS
> "GraceFUL swans of never topple to the Earth" not "Gracious" YOU FUCKING
> MORON! I HATE IDIOTS LIKE YOU! Not only do you come out with all this
> bullshit about worshipping the band but you get their fucking lyrics
> wrong! Have you never even READ the MCIS booklet?!?!
> GET A LIFE!
HELLO...Wayne...chill out man...the gal is entitled to interpret lyrics
anyway she chooses. Just because she does or does not read the jacket is
no reason to jump down her back....music is allowed to vary with the
individual remember??? K
Wayne Lines
>> >>the meaning of `gracious swans of never' in 33!!!!!
>>
>> "GraceFUL swans of never topple to the Earth" not "Gracious" YOU FUCKING
>> MORON! I HATE IDIOTS LIKE YOU! Not only do you come out with all this
>> bullshit about worshipping the band but you get their fucking lyrics
>> wrong! Have you never even READ the MCIS booklet?!?!
>> GET A LIFE!
>
>HELLO...Wayne...chill out man...the gal is entitled to interpret lyrics
>anyway she chooses. Just because she does or does not read the jacket is
>no reason to jump down her back....music is allowed to vary with the
>individual remember??? K
Yeah, I wasn't getting down her back for not reading the booklet. If
you'd read her ENTIRE post you'd see that she was ranting and raving
about all this crap re: WORSHIPPING the band and taking everything so
literally. This seems utter nonsense when she herself can't even get the
lyric to which she refers to correct.
But, yeah, I was getting a bit hot under the collar. I think I posted
that last week. I was a bit pissed off... :-/
Wayne.
--
+WORLD WIDE WAYNE!!!+ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6805/
**************************************************************
*"I got a handgun for twenty bucks * wayne.
* From an offer on the back of a cereal box * lines@
* It's got a smurf trigger and the bullets are blue * dementia.
* I hope I don't have to use it on you" - Dr. Frank, MTX * powernet.
************************************************************** co.uk